| Revision as of 02:06, 17 January 2017 editHijiri88 (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users37,389 edits →Arab Jews subject to ARBPIA sanctions?← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 15:10, 26 December 2024 edit undoNaraht (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, IP block exemptions, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers114,621 edits →First year with Kislev extending into January?: new sectionTag: New topic | ||
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| == ] == | |||
| Would members like to create a page about the ] N.E. Region. Current page is only regarding Florida branch. ] 17:34 17 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
| == Baruch Hashem == | |||
| Baruch Hashem is currently a redirect to ], perhaps incorrectly. I've questioned this at ]. <font color="red">—[</font>](])<font color="red">]—</font> 09:34, 11 November 2016 (UTC) | |||
| == Question regarding the scope of WikiProject_Jewish_culture == | |||
| ]. I hope you don't mind me posting this here? ] (]) 16:49, 4 December 2016 (UTC){{small|please ] me}} | |||
| ==Discussion underway== | |||
| Concerning the possibility of merging the ] article into the ] article there is a ]. ] (]) 15:10, 5 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
| ==2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages== | |||
| ] | |||
| <big>'''''Greetings {{PAGENAME}} Members!'''''</big> | |||
| This is a '''one-time-only''' message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the ''']''' that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for: | |||
| * ] | |||
| If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages. | |||
| Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis. | |||
| Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016. | |||
| Best regards, {{u|Stevietheman}} — <small>Delivered: 18:02, 7 December 2016 (UTC)</small> | |||
| {{Clear}} | |||
| == Heavy conflict about pictures on Haredi Judaism == | |||
| Please visit the talkpage of Hareadi Judaism, where there is heavy conflict about which pictures should be in the article, and especially in the lead. Please comment at ] and then add comments to other sections as your free time allows. ] (]) 23:23, 11 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
| == Conflict on Menachem_Mendel_Schneerson and mention of the ]== | |||
| {{hat|], there's already been adequate notice here that there is a discussion there. '']''! — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub> 16:23, 25 December 2016 (UTC)}} | |||
| ] | |||
| I have had many problems in past with this article, but the most recent problem is that the article fails to mention the ], even if but to mention that Schneerson's motorcade was involved. Again my source, and my justification, for adding this to Schneerson's article is that the New York Times obituary , and every retrospective article I found on the riots, mentions Schneerson. When I add any mention there is a team of editors that raises extraneous and false claims. I would urge authors interested in this area to help edit some entry in this article that does justice to the link. | |||
| My entry, which I thought was the least controversial, although entered in the controversy section (should it have its own section or his legacy?) stated: | |||
| *Crown Heights Riot | |||
| The ] in August 19, 1991, which became a central issue in a New York City mayoral race, were set off when a car in Rabbi Schneerson's motorcade went out of control and killed a 7-year-old black child. In the days that followed, a riot erupted in the neighborhood, reflecting existing tensions between Jewish and black residents. Two men, one of them a young Lubavitch adherent, were killed during the riots. A grand jury found no reason bring charges against anyone in the motorcade.<ref>, article titled ''Crown Heights erupts in three days of race riots after Jewish driver hits and kills Gavin Cato, 7, in 1991'', retrospective about the riots, by Rich Schapiro and Ginger Adams Otis, August 13, 2016.</ref><ref> by Ari Goldman, June 13, 1994.</ref> | |||
| == ] has an ]== | |||
| I could live with a shorter version. My quibble is that an article on Schneerson should include the words: | |||
| ''motorcade of ... Schneerson'' and ''Crown Heights riot'' in the same paragraph.] (]) 05:20, 16 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
| {{reflist-talk}} | |||
| <div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">]</div>''']''' has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the ''']'''.<!-- Template:Rfc notice--> Thank you. | |||
| The discussion is on the talkpage. It is a subject that was discussed in the past. This proposal has much going for it, IMHO. ] (]) 08:43, 16 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
| == ] has an ]== | |||
| I have closed the earlier dispute resolution, and moved to list it under ]. | |||
| <div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">]</div>''']''', which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the ''']'''.<!-- Template:Rfc notice--> Thank you. | |||
| Debresser fails to mention that the discussion in the past mainly favored the inclusion of information into the article, which he opposed. He fails to mention that in the talk page of Schneerson he said this had been "decided" to be excluded by prior discussions, which if anything had suggested that the material be included. He also fails to mention that he deletes the material anytime it is introduced. He also fails to provide any alternative text to include in the article. I am glad he says now it has much going for it, but from my past experience, that has not prevented him from opposing it, and failing to be constructive. I would refer others to prior discussions on Schneerson that he has participated in. Again, I challenge him here as on the talk page, write down the text with citations that you want to include in the article linking Schneerson to the events in Crown Heights in 1991] (]) 19:38, 16 December 2016 (UTC). | |||
| == Morris Soller == | |||
| : You challenge me? Perhaps read ]. In any case, you lie. I agreed with your last proposal. It just happens to be that other editors disagree and reverted. Not nice of you to lie about me. ] (]) 16:12, 17 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
| Hello WPJ. I have created Morris Soller and have ''probable'' but not ''sufficient'' information. Because I have not done this before WPJ's input is welcome at ]. Thank you in advance. ] (]) 13 February 2022 (UTC) | |||
| Debresser has warned me not once, but twice on my talk page for being too contentious or calling him names. I don't recall calling him names but I am certain I called out his actions. Again, I have well-sourced relevant material that forms an important event in the life of Schneerson. You say you support it now, but you neglect to mention that this article for years mentioned the ] in the text at least since before 2005, and in it own subsection from 2009 to 2015, this was deleted completely from the text without any discussion of why, and has since been blocked by you among other editors. Including a deletion of an entry on this topic from 3 June 2015 by 2601:A:6480:10E9:4CDD:C0B8:14D5:EBF0, that you completely deleted. | |||
| == Are these duplicate topics? == | |||
| My recommendation is that ultimately a neutral administrator arbitrate an entry into this article. There is a test now in place, that I have made, and modified according to requests by other editors. If Debresser and Bus Stop and Kemal Tebaast continue to delete this material (and Debresser has in the past as I cite), my recommendation is that we move to arbitration, my hope in this page, is that others would aid in this editing. The three authors above are not constructive in that they do not provide any sourced material to counter the biographical material from the obituary of Schneerson in the New York Times and other sources. They argue only that they do not think its important. That's all: they argue their opinions. I do not want to argue about their opinions or my opinions. The historical sources make a big deal of the events starting and surrounding the riots and their link to Schneerson, or the way we view his life, his biography. They fail to argue this point. There are two editors of those above now posting threats of administrative action against me. What fun!] (]) 22:13, 20 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
| There is an older article ] and newly-created ]. Are these duplicates about the same topic? ] (]) 19:50, 13 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Articles for types of Jews as well as for their histories == | |||
| ::RfCs fail to reach consensus. The editors above delete any entry in text. Any administrator willing to insert themselves as arbitrator?] (]) 06:03, 25 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
| Please see the discussion at ]. Thank you, ] (]) 20:17, 13 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{hab}} | |||
| == |
== Help needed at ] and ] == | ||
| I was working on copyediting ], and the ] section needed extensive CE. I did my best there, but it also needs a lot more citations and verification of existing citations. That section seems to be lifted straight out of ], which also needs better citations and verification. I've added ] to ], and would appreciate someone knowledgeable to look over the content before I return to copyedit it further. ] (]) 01:48, 20 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| I have proposed a merge of ] and ]. I can't see any real difference between the two, and at least one of the sources for the latter shows similar uncertainty ({{cite journal|title=Monolatry and Henotheism|journal=Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics|volume=VIII|pages=810|url=https://archive.org/details/EncyclopaediaOfReligionAndEthics.Hastings-selbie-gray.13Vols}}). If anyone more knowledgeable can improve the distinction, or provide other comments, the discussion is at ]. ] (]) 19:59, 21 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
| == Cleanup of WikiProject Judaism's style advice essay == | |||
| == Request for Comment == | |||
| {{FYI|pointer=y}} | |||
| ] on the subject of ] is being held at ]. Input from this group would be welcomed and appreciated. Thank you, Happy Hanukkah, Joyous Christide, have a great weekend. ⇔ <span style="font-size-adjust:0.54; font-family:Ovidius, 'Ovidius Script', 'Horizon BT', Horta, 'Final Frontier Old Style', Roddenberry, Charcoal, Virtue;">]</span> 17:46, 23 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
| The page presently at ] has been ] to ] to be consistent with other ] on style, since it is not part of the ] guidelines. | |||
| For the same reason, "MOS" shortcuts to it are nominated for replacement, at ]. | |||
| == ] == | |||
| PS: The wording in it needs considerable work, as it strays off-topic, has a bit of an us-vs.-them and occasionally even ranty tone, ironically has not been in compliance with a dozen or so parts of the actual MoS, and has other issues. I resolved a bit of this in one section, but really this hasn't been very substantively overhauled in over a decade, and almost all of it is the output of a handful of 2006–2007 editors. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — ] ] ] 😼 </span> 08:14, 24 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| A change to ] is being proposed. Please comment at ]. --] (]) 01:53, 31 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
| == On moving ] into ] == | |||
| == Missing topics list == | |||
| {{FYI|pointer=y}} | |||
| My list of ] is updated - ] (]) 15:51, 8 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| Please see ]. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — ] ] ] 😼 </span> 15:57, 24 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Request for review == | |||
| == Video Lecture on the Ten Lost Tribes by Rabbi Eliyahu Kin == | |||
| Please check the following edits. thanks! ] (]) 16:33, 1 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Requested move at ] == | |||
| ] keeps adding (using the clever markup though). The discussion has been through edit summaries, not on the talk page, but the new account, obviously not a new editor, seems happy with that. I can't find any evidence that the Rabbi is an expert on the Ten Lost Tribes, which is what we'd need for a personal website, and I don't see any basic difference between a link to a YouTube video and a link to a personal website, so this fails ]. He also seems fairly fringe on at least some issues, see and . ] ] 17:57, 11 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| ] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 03:00, 9 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Rabbinic references question == | |||
| : He indeed does not seem to be an expert on the subject, just a general rabbi and Jewish outreach lecturer. ] (]) 18:44, 11 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| Question: I've been reviewing ], which currently uses many rabbinic primary sources. Given Misplaced Pages concerns with primary sources, is there any specific guidance for using halakhic texts on halakhic topics? Also, is there Misplaced Pages guidance on how to cite rabbinic sources? For instance, do we need publisher name and standard pages to specific versions? Or does it suffice to say, for instance, Shulchan Aruch OC 425:2 and similar? ] (]) 16:34, 11 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == ] subject to ARBPIA sanctions? == | |||
| :Many rabbinic sources are not primary sources. For example, is a secondary source for the purpose "what haftara is read on Erev Rosh Chodesh?". However, it is (like any book from 1563) very outdated, and more recent works should be preferred. For "what was the normal practice in 1563" it is a primary source. But cites don't need to be religiously secular. The most reliable source for "what haftara is read on Erev Rosh Chodesh" is probably just a more recent rabbi. | |||
| Please see the talk page of ] where some admin decided that because there was a content dispute, he'd lock it up under ECP/ARBPIA and not just a regular semi protection as all content disputes. This is more of the same, if it has the word Jew in it, it is subject to the Israel-Palestinian conflict sanctions. Please comment and make your opinion heard. ] <sup><font color="Green">]</font></sup> 03:56, 13 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :In terms of citation style I wonder this also. I think the ideal is to link to Sefaria when available. There are "standard editions" for some works (usually Israeli offsets of prewar Ashkenazic printings) but no convenient list and not remotely all. Many works have never been printed by themselves, only on the margins, or at the back, of other books, which makes them even harder to cite. When available it can be tempting to cite a fancy critical edition but they're so much harder to access and never translated, so I try to refrain unless it really matters. Anyway if Sefaria is an option I always choose it. Sefaria is aligned with our mission, very easy to use, mostly linkable by the paragraph, and constantly improving the texts in their library. ] (]) 23:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| : You should have pinged the Admin ]. ] ] 06:35, 13 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| : In any case, I agree with that admin. ] (]) 14:02, 13 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| ::If the question is whether ] applies, the answer is ''of course''. The wording is {{tq|'''could be reasonably construed''' as being '''related to''' the Arab-Israeli conflict} (my emphasis), and a significant portion of that article deals specifically with the Arab-Israeli conflict: of the first three paragraphs, the first is a single sentence; 20% of the second, and 40% of the third, is about the conflict. | |||
| ::By the way, the message is not neutrally worded at all ({{tq|Please comment and make your opinion heard}}) and so is a violation of ]. | |||
| ::] (<small>]]</small>) 12:01, 16 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :::Keep in mind that one of the editors kept removing anything the IP editor put in that would have expanded the article. I don't see any reason to have sanctions on an article where it's not the main topic and there has been no disruption, etc. This is just overkill and goes against the foundations of Misplaced Pages. ] <sup><font color="Green">]</font></sup> 14:02, 16 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| ::::{{re|Sir Joseph}} You misunderstand. IPs and new accounts ''already'' are not allowed edit that page per ]. The fact that extended-confirmed protection had not already been placed on the page was an oversight on the admin corps's part, and it having now been properly applied is something that has already been explicitly sanctioned by ArbCom and is not something you or I or anyone else on this page (or for that matter any random admin) is allowed to overturn. If you want to make an argument that either (a) the page does not fall within ARBPIA because there were Arab Jews before the formation of the State of Israel or (b) the General Prohibition in ARBPIA3 should be amended, you need to take it to ArbCom, and I can guarantee you that if you try (a) you will not be successful. ] (<small>]]</small>) 01:02, 17 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :::::You seem to misunderstand my point. The page has nothing to do with the IP conflict and should not have been ECP protected. There was no vandalism and no disruptive editing. The editor who requested protection was using it to win the dispute. Not everything with the word Jew in it is subject to sanctions. ] <sup><font color="Green">]</font></sup> 01:50, 17 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::The relevant ArbCom case specifies pages that {{tq|ll IP editors, accounts with fewer than 500 edits, and accounts with less than 30 days tenure are prohibited from editing any page that could be reasonably construed as being related to the '''Arab-Israeli conflict'''}} (my emphasis). The article clearly places itself under that rubric by making roughly a third of its lead specifically about the Arab-Israeli conflict. Nitpicking over the fact that ''Palestinians'' are not involved is not going to end well. Requesting protection for a page that is already supposed to be protected is always acceptable, regardless of the motivations you want to assign to that user. ] (<small>]]</small>) 02:02, 17 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| ::::The phrase "could be reasonably construed" is apparently intentionally vague to allow for it being applied anywhere it might seem reasonable for possible sanctions to be appropriate. That does not necessarily mean that it would be applied in all cases, and I have no doubt that in some articles like this one some edits which might be somehow clearly unrelated to the Israel-Palestine question might not be. Having said that, I know from experience elsewhere in subjects that are both under hot current debate and ArbCom sanctions that it is fairly frequently the case that a given individual or topic becomes a bit of a cause celebre in one of the relevant groups, and supporters of that viewpoint fairly regularly disrupt the content because of it. Particularly in such cases, some sort of sanctions, including page locking in the short term, possibly until the most recent furor about a detail dies down, are not unreasonable. ] (]) 01:17, 17 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :::::ECP on an article that is not inherently about the IP conflict should be as a last resort, not a first resort. ] <sup><font color="Green">]</font></sup> 01:57, 17 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::{{ping|Sir Joseph}} Please listen to me: {{tq|inherently about the IP conflict}} is your original wording, and is ''not'' what ArbCom specified. They were very clear about the matter. IPs are not allowed to edit that page because it defines itself as being "reasonably construed" as being related to the "Arab-Israeli conflict". ] (<small>]]</small>) 02:06, 17 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| == First year with Kislev extending into January? == | |||
| == ]? == | |||
| (flipped a coin between asking here and in RD/Misc) After trying to describe when Hanukkah is to a non-Jew, the question came up of given the *gradual* drift of the Hebrew calendar relative to the sun, in which year will the last day of Kislev first occur in January? ] (]) 15:10, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| See ]. Input would be appreciated. ] (<small>]]</small>) 11:52, 16 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
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Aleph Institute
Would members like to create a page about the Aleph Institute N.E. Region. Current page is only regarding Florida branch. Helpfulguy101 17:34 17 December 2020 (UTC)
Talk:Ilhan_Omar#RFC has an RFC
Talk:Ilhan_Omar#RFC has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you.
Shem HaMephorash has an RFC
Shem HaMephorash, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you.
Morris Soller
Hello WPJ. I have created Morris Soller and have probable but not sufficient information. Because I have not done this before WPJ's input is welcome at Talk:Morris Soller. Thank you in advance. Invasive Spices (talk) 13 February 2022 (UTC)
Are these duplicate topics?
There is an older article Emigration of Jews from Nazi Germany and German-occupied Europe and newly-created Jewish refugees from Nazism. Are these duplicates about the same topic? MKFI (talk) 19:50, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles for types of Jews as well as for their histories
Please see the discussion at Talk:Georgian Jews#Requested move 12 November 2024. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 20:17, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
Help needed at Haymanot and Beta Israel
I was working on copyediting Beta Israel, and the Beta Israel#Religion section needed extensive CE. I did my best there, but it also needs a lot more citations and verification of existing citations. That section seems to be lifted straight out of Haymanot, which also needs better citations and verification. I've added Template:GOCEreviewed to Haymanot, and would appreciate someone knowledgeable to look over the content before I return to copyedit it further. Clementhyme (talk) 01:48, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
Cleanup of WikiProject Judaism's style advice essay
FYI – Pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere.
The page presently at WP:WikiProject Judaism/Manual of Style has been nominated for renaming to WP:WikiProject Judaism/Style advice to be consistent with other wikiproject advice essays on style, since it is not part of the WP:MOS guidelines.
For the same reason, "MOS" shortcuts to it are nominated for replacement, at WP:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 24#MOS:JEW.
PS: The wording in it needs considerable work, as it strays off-topic, has a bit of an us-vs.-them and occasionally even ranty tone, ironically has not been in compliance with a dozen or so parts of the actual MoS, and has other issues. I resolved a bit of this in one section, but really this hasn't been very substantively overhauled in over a decade, and almost all of it is the output of a handful of 2006–2007 editors. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 08:14, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
On moving WP:JESUSCHRIST into MOS:BIO#Honorifics
FYI – Pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere.
Please see Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style/Biography#Proposal to import a line-item from WP:JUDAISMSTYLE into MOS:BIO. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 15:57, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
Request for review
Please check the following edits. thanks! 132.71.108.188 (talk) 16:33, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Yoel Kahn#Requested move 30 November 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Yoel Kahn#Requested move 30 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Feeglgeef (talk) 03:00, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Rabbinic references question
Question: I've been reviewing Kiddush levana, which currently uses many rabbinic primary sources. Given Misplaced Pages concerns with primary sources, is there any specific guidance for using halakhic texts on halakhic topics? Also, is there Misplaced Pages guidance on how to cite rabbinic sources? For instance, do we need publisher name and standard pages to specific versions? Or does it suffice to say, for instance, Shulchan Aruch OC 425:2 and similar? ProfGray (talk) 16:34, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
- Many rabbinic sources are not primary sources. For example, Shulchan Arukh OC 425:2 is a secondary source for the purpose "what haftara is read on Erev Rosh Chodesh?". However, it is (like any book from 1563) very outdated, and more recent works should be preferred. For "what was the normal practice in 1563" it is a primary source. But cites don't need to be religiously secular. The most reliable source for "what haftara is read on Erev Rosh Chodesh" is probably just a more recent rabbi.
- In terms of citation style I wonder this also. I think the ideal is to link to Sefaria when available. There are "standard editions" for some works (usually Israeli offsets of prewar Ashkenazic printings) but no convenient list and not remotely all. Many works have never been printed by themselves, only on the margins, or at the back, of other books, which makes them even harder to cite. When available it can be tempting to cite a fancy critical edition but they're so much harder to access and never translated, so I try to refrain unless it really matters. Anyway if Sefaria is an option I always choose it. Sefaria is aligned with our mission, very easy to use, mostly linkable by the paragraph, and constantly improving the texts in their library. GordonGlottal (talk) 23:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
First year with Kislev extending into January?
(flipped a coin between asking here and in RD/Misc) After trying to describe when Hanukkah is to a non-Jew, the question came up of given the *gradual* drift of the Hebrew calendar relative to the sun, in which year will the last day of Kislev first occur in January? Naraht (talk) 15:10, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
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