| Revision as of 10:47, 30 January 2017 editRitchie333 (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Autopatrolled, Administrators125,300 edits →Infobox: aww jeez not this again← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 13:13, 27 November 2024 edit undoRcarter555 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users3,971 edits →Trouble understanding, perhaps a British idiom?: ReplyTag: Reply | ||
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| == |
== Politics == | ||
| I also added a brief section on Grant's political views, noting he was not an overtly political figure by his own admission but did make the 1976 GOP appearance and occassionally commented on events | |||
| {{hat|Aww jeez, not this again}} | |||
| Why should we not put an info box?] (]) 23:30, 25 August 2016 (UTC) | |||
| == | |||
| : ] (]) 23:32, 25 August 2016 (UTC) | |||
| == Cary Grant's accent == | |||
| ::What Consensus are you referring to? Seems that there was support for restoring it.--] ]</font> 00:06, 13 September 2016 (UTC) | |||
| Grant's accent British with a try for America which comes out Beautifully | |||
| :::While sports and politician bios can benefit from infoboxes, most articles in liberal arts fields, as here, do not: I disagree with including an infobox in this article because: (1) The box ''emphasizes unimportant factoids stripped of context and lacking nuance'', in competition with the ] section, which emphasizes and contextualizes the most important facts. (2) Since the most important points in the article are already discussed in the Lead, or adequately discussed in the body of the article, the box is ''redundant''. (3) It takes up valuable space at the top of the article and ''hampers the layout'' and impact of the Lead. (4) ''Frequent errors'' creep into infoboxes, as updates are made to the articles but not reflected in the redundant info in the box, and they tend to draw ''more and fancruft'' than other parts of articles. (5) The infobox template creates a block of ''code at the top'' of the edit screen that ''discourages new editors from editing the article''. (6) It ''discourages readers from reading the article''. (7) It ''distracts editors from focusing on the content'' of the article. Instead of improving the article, they spend time working on this repetitive feature and its coding and formatting. See also ]. -- ] (]) 16:09, 9 October 2016 (UTC) | |||
| but British. ] (]) 14:41, 26 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
| :Sorry, your point being…? – ] (]) 06:57, 13 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
| To throw in my two cents, I think infoboxes are an important aspect of an article, and Grant seems to (randomly) be the only famous, impactful person on this entire site without one. I like looking at an infobox and instantly seeing age/spouses/etc instead of having to scroll through the entire article looking for one basic piece of information, which I know "discourages reading entire page" but people will read an article if they want, regardless of condensed info. ] (]) 15:48, 17 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| "British" is pretty vague and misleading. There's quite a bit of cockney in Grant's accent. ] (]) 13:25, 16 June 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Excessively long lede == | |||
| I don't wish to start a war here, but I agree that of all the well-developed articles on influential, well-known people I've seen on here, this seems to be the only one where the infobox was deliberately removed, and it just looks weird. The infoboxes have become a recognizable feature of Misplaced Pages, and while they do repeat some info from the main body of the article, they are also really helpful for giving a summary of the main points about a person (birth, death, birthplace, etc.) I hope this isn't the start of some movement to remove them all from articles of famous people who aren't in sports or politics, as doing this would discourage me from using Misplaced Pages because I don't want to have to read walls of text to get a short summary of a person with a lengthy article. ] (]) 22:09, 27 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| It seems common for WP's celebrity articles to have ledes that run away with themselves like this, no doubt from fan enthusiasm. However, a successful lede is an ''introduction'' to an article, usually a single paragraph summarizing its major points and encouraging people to read on—not something like this, which competes with the article in its level of detail. Can we do something about it? – ] (]) 07:05, 13 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :For {{u|TheBlinkster|your}} information, see , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , not to mention the many more articles listed at ] that don't use infoboxes. But on behalf of other content creators everywhere, I do apologise for making you read the "walls of text" we have sweated blood and tears over. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px Black;">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 22:41, 27 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :Fan enthusiasm?? It is pretty concise for such a prominent actor, nothing wrong with the length, it needs to be reasonable to summarize the whole article. It's 464 words, ] recommends 250-400 words for featured articles. And this isn't. ♦ ] 10:19, 13 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Misplaced Pages is supposed to be a useful tool to obtain information, and a feature that makes it easier and quicker to find basic information should be welcomed, not disparaged because then people don't read all the content. Many users of traditional encyclopedias for reference have used them to search for a particular fact or two, with the reading of the longer article an option if you wanted more in-depth information. Encyclopedias aren't about the reader appreciating the hard work of the content creator, but about presenting useful information in the forms in which it will be most useful, in my opinion. ] (]) 22:52, 27 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :::Then maybe we should not bother at all then? Let's have a sodding infobox and be done with it. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px Black;">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 23:18, 27 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
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| == Trouble understanding, perhaps a British idiom? == | |||
| == Gay or bisexual == | |||
| What does this mean? | |||
| The article states that, "Grant lived with actor ] off and on for 12 years, which several authors have claimed was a gay or bisexual relationship". The language is inappropriate. A relationship between two men may be a gay relationship, but because both participants are men it is by definition not a "bisexual" relationship. ], who reverted my correction of the article's language, that "Women visited the place they were staying", but that fact is irrelevant, as the (alleged) relationship in question was between Grant and Scott, not the women. ] (]) 07:42, 29 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
| :I agree that there is no such thing as a "bisexual relationship", unless, of course, it involves three people of mixed gender. The case here, I suspect, was that as well as sleeping with each other (allegedly) they were also intimate with people of the opposite sex. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px Black;">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 23:03, 29 December 2016 (UTC) | |||
| and would reduce pocket money for minor mishaps. | |||
| == His clothing donated to charity after death == | |||
| Both '''' magazine and '''' reported that his clothing was donated discreetly to the poor and homeless after his death, which is in line with Jennifer working on homeless issues at a law firm before becoming an actress. The article currently says something different, that it went to celebrities and others. I think the article should be corrected on this point, as these are two very high quality sources. I will leave this to regular editors here to decide what to do. Thanks. ] (]) 18:49, 17 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :{{done}}. I decided to make the edit myself, adding a new sourced line. ] (]) 13:20, 18 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| :::I'm very sorry, but I've removed it because in my opinion, it adds nothing of value. {{u|5Q5|Feel}} free to discuss, though, should you feel it particularly important to mention where Grant's clothes went to after his death. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px Black;">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 17:29, 18 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| Reduce makes less. Pocket money is small amount of loose bills and coins. Minor mishaps are usually insignificant mistakes or accidents. Putting it all together leaves me confused. His mother gave away/spent loose change when minor accidents happened? ] (]) 11:39, 25 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :::::{{Disagree}} My edit in the article providing high quality news media sources stating that Cary Grant's clothes were donated to the poor and homeless after his death was reverted by editor ] who called it an ''"Uninteresting factoid not worthy of inclusion."'' I therefore wish to store the deleted line and reference here in protest because the line contradicts and corrects the claim currently in the article that is sourced to third party 1997 biographer Graham McCann (the book's copyright actually says 1996, ''Cary Grant: A Class Apart''), who never communicated with Grant's daughter or wife when writing his book and who, according to this Misplaced Pages article, says his clothes were donated to "Frank Sinatra, Roderick Mann, Stanley Donen, Kirk Kerkorian and others." I could not verify this claim searching for these names in the book on books.google. Here is the "uninteresting" deleted line "not worthy of inclusion" (it could have been tweaked by any editor if necessary, as opposed to deletion): | |||
| :Pocket money is a British term for an allowance given to kids by their parents. I guess we need to leave it like it is because of engvar. Unless you want to elaborate somehow. ] <small>(])</small> 17:32, 25 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| <div class="boilerplate metadata" id="attention" style="background-color: #FFFFFF; margin: 0 2.5%; padding: 0 10px; border: 1px solid #aaa;"> | |||
| ::Thanks for clearing it up. Is allowance more universally understood? | |||
| '']'' reported on August 24, 2016 in an interview with Jennifer Grant that she donated her father's clothing to charitable organizations and the homeless.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.wsj.com/article_email/the-strange-journey-of-cary-grants-suits-1472058154-lMyQjAxMTA2MDIyNTIyNjU4Wj |title=The Strange Journey of Cary Grant’s Suits |last=Binkley |first=Christina |date=August 24, 2016 |website=wsj.com |publisher=The Wall Street Journal |accessdate=January 18, 2017 |quote=Today the clothing of celebrities goes to auction; the actor’s daughter gave away his famously stylish wardrobe without anyone realizing.}} Excerpted also in '''' magazine August 26, 2016.</ref>{{Reflist}}</div> | |||
| ::<blockquote>and would reduce her children's allowance due to minor mishaps</blockquote> | |||
| :::::Finally, I wish to express my position that this article currently suffers from a lack of credibility due its preference for poor quality sources, those being biographies by strangers and fan websites over mainstream news media interviews with Grant's daughter and wife. It therefore isn't worth my time to attempt future edits. The article simply cannot be trusted. Good day. ] (]) 17:48, 27 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| ::Or | |||
| ::::::::{{u|5Q5|You}} can throw a tantrum as much as you like, your edit was not an improvement. It's as simple as that. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px Black;">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 18:49, 27 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
| ::<blockquote>and would reduce extravagances for her children over minor mishaps</blockquote> | |||
| ::I'm a native English speaker and have never heard the term pocket money used in place of allowance. I certainly understand why it would be used but there has to be a less confusing way to word this sentence. ] (]) 12:08, 27 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Citizenship date source reference == | |||
| :::Even if we keep “pocket money” (which, although not that common, is certainly a term I have heard), would it be more clear if the sentence read “and would reduce his pocket money for minor mishaps”? Missing the possessive pronoun makes it more confusing, I think. ] (]) 13:13, 27 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
| My edit in the article yesterday providing a high quality news media source for the year of 1942<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2005/05/24/DI2005052400695.html |title=Barbara Grant Jaynes and Robert Trachtenberg - Live Q&As transcript |date=May 26, 2005 |website=washingtonpost.com |publisher=''Washington Post'' |accessdate= January 17, 2017 |quote=Barbara Grant Jaynes: He lived in this country from when he was 16 years old. . . . He also became an American citizen in 1942. }} (Online Q&A session with Grant's wife and filmmaker Trachtenberg after the airing of the PBS American Masters documentary <i>Cary Grant: A Class Apart</i>.</ref> was reverted by editor ], who by said action prefers instead to use the unofficial fan website CaryGrant.net as the date source. I am therefore storing my reference here for the talk page archive in case anyone else questions the reliability of the fan website reference currently being used. | |||
| {{Reflist}} | |||
| Thanks. ] (]) 12:40, 18 January 2017 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 13:13, 27 November 2024
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Politics
I also added a brief section on Grant's political views, noting he was not an overtly political figure by his own admission but did make the 1976 GOP appearance and occassionally commented on events
==
Cary Grant's accent
Grant's accent British with a try for America which comes out Beautifully but British. 2601:243:812:9640:A46B:118A:63C:FD9 (talk) 14:41, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry, your point being…? – AndyFielding (talk) 06:57, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
"British" is pretty vague and misleading. There's quite a bit of cockney in Grant's accent. TheScotch (talk) 13:25, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
Excessively long lede
It seems common for WP's celebrity articles to have ledes that run away with themselves like this, no doubt from fan enthusiasm. However, a successful lede is an introduction to an article, usually a single paragraph summarizing its major points and encouraging people to read on—not something like this, which competes with the article in its level of detail. Can we do something about it? – AndyFielding (talk) 07:05, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
- Fan enthusiasm?? It is pretty concise for such a prominent actor, nothing wrong with the length, it needs to be reasonable to summarize the whole article. It's 464 words, WP:Lead recommends 250-400 words for featured articles. And this isn't. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:19, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
Trouble understanding, perhaps a British idiom?
What does this mean?
and would reduce pocket money for minor mishaps.
Reduce makes less. Pocket money is small amount of loose bills and coins. Minor mishaps are usually insignificant mistakes or accidents. Putting it all together leaves me confused. His mother gave away/spent loose change when minor accidents happened? Mopenstein (talk) 11:39, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- Pocket money is a British term for an allowance given to kids by their parents. I guess we need to leave it like it is because of engvar. Unless you want to elaborate somehow. RegentsPark (comment) 17:32, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for clearing it up. Is allowance more universally understood?
and would reduce her children's allowance due to minor mishaps
- Or
and would reduce extravagances for her children over minor mishaps
- I'm a native English speaker and have never heard the term pocket money used in place of allowance. I certainly understand why it would be used but there has to be a less confusing way to word this sentence. Mopenstein (talk) 12:08, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Even if we keep “pocket money” (which, although not that common, is certainly a term I have heard), would it be more clear if the sentence read “and would reduce his pocket money for minor mishaps”? Missing the possessive pronoun makes it more confusing, I think. Rcarter555 (talk) 13:13, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
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