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	===Thanks===

	Thanks for making updates to ]! I really hope that it can be made into a good portal and that the Latvia-related articles could also be better featured. ] 13:48, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

	==]==		== Odds and ends==
			* Limited Wikitime owing to family circumstances, ongoing
	It belongs to because it is not an article. Other than that, good job on merging the occupation articles. ] 06:23, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
			* ]
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	:There are a slew of NKVD and other "Orders" in Misplaced Pages, I was just following convention. Is there some easy way to move? Lots more to do on the consolidated occupation article, but I'm happy with it so far. If you could take a quick peek at a redo of the History of Russian in Latvia, a comment or two would be appreciated! ] 06:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

			<div style="border: 1px #c0c090 solid; padding: 8px; width: 190px; float:left; clear:left; background-color: #ffffff; margin: 0 10px 10px 0;">'''A Start for You'''<br>]<br>You deserve this to balance out Anonimu and Anittas. — ] 03:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)</div>
	::There must be some way to transwikify, but I don't know. You can leave the intro here, but the original text should go. The other orders too. I will read history of Russians, but only in the morning. It's almost 2am here (should be the same at your place :)). Btw, you have a very nice homepage at latvians.com :) ] 06:37, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
			<div style="border: 1px #c0c090 solid; padding: 8px; width: 190px; float:left; background-color: #dff2f3; margin: 0 10px 10px 0;">'''Copy Editor's Barnstar'''<br>]<br>I award you this '''Copy Editor's Barnstar''' for insisting on clear, comprehensible, and grammatically correct articles.—] (]) 07:51, 12 June 2010 (UTC)</div>
			<div style="border: 1px #c0c090 solid; padding: 8px; width: 190px; float:left; background-color: AliceBlue; margin: 0 10px 10px 0;">'''Scandalous!'''<br>]<br>'''Hello Vecrumba''', Viriditas has smiled at you! Smiles promote ] and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the ] by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing! <small>''Smile at others by adding {{tls\|Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.''</small></div>
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			Remember, ] - it only takes you to edit uncontroversial Misplaced Pages articles. If you need a list of red links, just let me know. <span style="font-family:trebuchet MS;">]/]\]</span> 11:27, 21 November 2010 (UTC)</div>

			<div style="clear:both;"> </div>
	::I took a look at Wikisource, and it seems more a place to reproduce written works (a la Project Gutenberg) than to be a document repository. ] 08:27, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

			== Best wishes... ==
	:::I would disagree. Yes, books are more prominent. But there is a bunch of national anthems, There is USA Patriot Act, speeches, interviews, all that. Its purpose really is to gather all sources that don't belong to WP. Oh, and the title, would it be possible to say whose order it is (what institution, kgb, nkvd, gru, smth else)? See for example, ]. And here is one with original text in wikisource ]. ] 16:24, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
			I've been busy on web site projects for some months now, but am back "on a limited basis". A belated and best wishes for a Happy New Year, especially to my Eastern/Central/Baltic Europe editorial compatriots! :-)
			* Laimīgu Jauno gadu!
			* Head uut aastat!
			* Naujųjų Metų!
			* Szczęśliwego Nowego Roku!
			* An Nou Fericit!
			* Boldog Új Évet!
			* З Новим Роком!
			* !מזל ניו יאר
			* С Новым Годом!
			Among other projects, I've relaunched LATVIANS.COM and CFBH.ORG (Center for Baltic Heritage) with consolidated and updated content and usability improvements @ . I've also relaunched , the site of my dear departed friend Gunars Zulis, with much improved navigation,. In case you thought I was on a beach somewhere sipping margaritas, alas, I only wish! ]<small> ►]</small> 03:23, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
			:Laimīgu Jauno gadu! It's good to see you back (even if only in a limited capacity). You're intelligence, analytical abilities and constructive criticism is a precious commodity, particularly for those of us still on a learning curve trying to smack down the "too many years working as a researcher" monkey on our backs. Cheers! --] (]) 04:12, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

			== Gulag ==
	::::No. 593 looks like a good example to follow. I've always assumed it's NKVD, but not 100% positive, so I didn't automatically call it a NKVD order. ] 16:43, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

			Hello
	:::It was not NKVD. It was ]. <font color="#990011">`'</font>] ] 06:27, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

			Unfortunately, I was in Latvia in 2011 and now I not remember :(
	::::Hello! Sorry, I've been away from Wiki for a while for personal and health reasons. The deporation directives and orders in the Baltics pre-date the existence of the NKGB--they were issued and remained in effect under the authority of the NKVD. Are you refering to those or the examples--00593 or 00439? Thanks! ] 05:25, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

			Best regards --] (]) 17:40, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
	==Russians==
	I have read the article, not the talk page (way too long :D). Here are my comments: the first two sections are quite vague. Sometimes I could not really understand what you are trying to say. Also, it would benefit enormously if you could add footnotes. For example, about Old Believers that they did not get involved. Where is that from? And many other generalisations. It is a big contrast to the POV marked sections were there are many facts and numbers. Also, the end favors Latvia's government (it looks like that to me). The article also needs a proper lead :) I hope it helps, ] 19:23, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

			: Thanks for your note! Z szacunkiem, ]<small> ►]</small> 17:50, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
	:I'm going to let it sit for a couple of days and go back and read again. As histories go, I thought it was fairly detailed (not vague). The first population figures available anywhere are from the 1897 empire-wide census (even those are not precise)--so that kind of precision is simply not possible. It's a straightforward story: early Russian settlements along the eastern parts of today's Baltics, Russian presence was mainly traders at first, influx of Old Believers fleeing persecution in the 16th century, a continuing (small) increasing presence, building faster after all of Latvia became part of the Russian empire, especially with industrialization, and developing its own sense of identity as "Latvian Russians" apart from "Russian Russians." There was no "influx" per se, there was only a gradual process over time. I thought that was all pretty clear, I can always go back and see about tightening the edit. The second part (including Old Believer types not being fervent revolutionaries) is in one of the academic links cited (which itself was based on a fairly wide-ranging consideration of other academic studies/books/etc.). I didn't want to endlessly footnote. The main point of the second section is that until 1905, interests of Latvian Russians and Latvians and Latvian nationalists and even the tsar's Russification coincided: what provided the "glue" was the definition of the controling Baltic Germans as the adversary. After that, paths diverged, nevertheless, anti-"Russian" sentiment was directed at Bolshevism, not at the native Latvian population or Russians fleeing the revolution. There was no Latvian government at that time--I'm not trying to paint a "positive" or "negative" picture, merely what the picture was. I'm not doing this from any particular POV. (We'll see how well I keep to that when I get to contemporary Latvia!)

			== Police in Nazi-occupied Latvia ==
	:What's been gathered in the first two sections then forms a backdrop to the role of the Latvian Russian minority during Latvian's first independence. Hope this helps. ] 03:46, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

			Could you confirm that the recently redirected and the ] refer to the same subject? While the stories seem to fit more or less, there are some important details that suggest a difference (volunteers vs volunteers and conscripts; participation in Holocaust). Should the redirection be reverted, or should sourced information from the former be moved to the latter? Thank you, and I hope you have a happy new year! ] (]) 12:06, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
	::I will have to read through it again and see if there is something I can do about the language, but some footnotes would really help. ] 04:06, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
			: Hello, Anonimu. The Hilfspolizei (reported to the Sicherheitsfienst, SD) were not the Schutzmannschaft were not the Hilfs+polizei--that is, local "auxiliary" police but not reporting to the SD in collaborating in the Holocaust, unfortunately the same noun in German. Under no circumstances should those be merged. Looking forward to a more collaborative 2014. ]<small> ►]</small> 00:46, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

			== WikiProject Poland Newsletter (keeping as reminder) ==
	:::(A response to your last post at ])

			{\| width="98%" style="background: #FBF5EF;"
	:::I agree with regard to dislodging German as the language of prestige and the language of administration being the main goal for both the Russian government and most of the Young Latvians (note, though, that Russification also took place in the ethnographically Latvian part of Vitebsk guberniya for a longer period and more thoroughly, but quite differently , where the Germans had been Polonized and there was a Polish and Russian aristocracy) -- even so, Russification in Courland and Livland was most dramatic in education, and in this it strongly favored the Russians (or, more accurately, the Russophones) and affected not only the Germans but the Latvians (for example, at Tartu , the number of Lutheran students fell threefold between 1892 and 1901, whilst Russian enrollment rose ten times, partly because the graduates of Orthdox seminaries were admitted -- destroying that nest of Baltic separatism was one of Manasein's main recommendations ). Latvians largely supported Russian instruction in the schools, and many even supported Russification (e.g., Valdemārs: "Speaking Russian, Latvians are never lost to their nation -- not even when some of them have begun to forget how to speak Latvian." ) ''Baltijas Vēstnesis'' was the influential newspaper led by Fricis Veinbergs, who remained a Russophile even unto 1917.
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			<div style="padding:3px; background:#D4213D; color:white; text-align:center; font-weight:bold; font-size:100%; margin-bottom:5px;margin-top:0;margin-left:-5px;margin-right:-4px;">WikiProject Poland Newsletter • January 2014 • Issue II<br /><small>'']''</small></div>

			Welcome to the second issue of ] newsletter, the Monitor (named after ]).
	:::Your point that the Latvian nationalists "were not agitating for independence" is very important. Fricis Brīvzemnieks (Treuland), brought in as an inspector of public schools by Kapustin at Valdemārs' request ("it was politically advantageous for the government that Russification would be introduced by the Latvian and Estonian nationalists themselves"), wrote a letter to Kaudzītes Reinis in 1886 in which he rejects an article Kaudzīte had written; the part about the friendship between Russians and Latvians, acording to Brīvzemnieks, is fine -- but the rest of the article needs to be amended to note that "defenders of the German ''Ritterschaft'' are trying to spread the belief among Latvians that the Tsar's government and the Russian people want nothing more than to deprive Latvians of their language and religion Latvians have heretofore habitually expected good things only from the Russian government, and harmful things from their German overlords they know that the government has nothing to fear from the Latvian or Estonian languages because the Latvians and Estonians have never been independent nations and the seed of separatist thought finds no soil among the Latvians..." Brīvzemnieks goes on to say that the fears of Russification in Latvia are either "exaggerated or completely baseless." (Švābe, p. 462)

			Our Project has been operational since 1 June, 2005, and also serves as the Poland-related Misplaced Pages notice board. I highly recommend watchlisting the ], so you can be aware of the ongoing discussions. We hope you will join us in them, if you haven't done so already! Unlike many other WikiProjects, we are quite active; we get close to a hundred discussion threads each year and we do a pretty good job at answering all issues raised. Last year we were ], and our interviewer was amazed at our activity. In the end, however, even as active as we are, we are just a tiny group - you can easily become one of our core members!
	:::The fact is that fears of Russification were growing and they were rooted in reality and not in a plot by the ''Ritterschaft'' -- Valdemārs, entwined with the Slavophiles in Moscow, was increasingly irrelevant and no longer understood what was happening in the Baltics. The overall situation in education is also important to an understanding here (as it ''wasn't'' to Manasein): the Baltic provinces were the most advanced parts of the Russian Empire in education, whilst the Baltic Russians were comparatively ill-educated -- in Riga in 1881, for example, 47,8% of Russians over age 14 could not read or write (vs. 23,7% of the Latvians and 23,0% of the Germans). According to the official Russian statistics for 1886, there was one public school per 654 inhabitants in Southern Livland, vs. 1:2147 in Moscow guberniya and 1:3155 in Pskov guberniya. 2.37% of children in all 50 gubernii attended public school -- but this percentage varied considerably by guberniya: 9.25% in Finland, 9.87% in Southern Livland, 5,42% in Courland, 0,81% in Kovno, 3,44% in St. Petersburg, 2,01% in Kiev. In Vitebsk guberniya, and thus in Latgola -- 1,13%. 87,5% of the Old Believers in Latgola were illiterate, and 77,2% of the Belarusians (but even there, literacy was considerably higher in the ethnographically Latvian part of the guberniya and among Latvians). Latvian literacy also depended upon the rural and parochial schools, and to a very large degree on home schooling -- but home schooling in Latgola, which was particularly successful for females, was criminalized during Russification. ("Baltijas 'jaunā ēra' un rusifikācija"; Švābe, ''op. cit.'') It might be noted, too, that the situation in the heavily Slavicized Ilūkste district in Semigallia was similar to that of Latgola, and Manasein in fact suggested that it be joined to Vitebsk guberniya.

			In addition to a lively encyclopedic, Poland-related, English-language discussion forum, we have numerous useful tools that can be of use to you - and that you could help us maintain and develop:
	:::Brīvzemnieks came to regret his position. As Russification intensified (and education declined), he was frequently attacked in the Russian press despite his pro-Russian stance, including by the newspaper you have mentioned -- Рижский Вестник, which demanded the imposition of Cyrillic in the Baltic provinces, as it had been imposed in Latgola, "to pour cold water on the fantasies of those who dream about a Latvian culture." This was their reaction to the success of the third Latvian Song Festival, and it is strikingly similar to the reaction of the Baltic Germans to the first forays of the Young Latvians (e.g., of ''Das Inland'' to Alunāns' ''Dziesmiņas'') -- except that Latvian culture and in essence a Latvian nation were no longer a dream but had already come into existence. In 1888, Valdemārs wrote a lengthy defense of his career, explaining that he had worked harder than anybody else for the Russification of the Baltic provinces. This is where I will question the notion of "laissez-faire," Pēter -- to what extent was there laissez-faire, and when, and why? In the late 1880s, the Baltic German press came to defend Latvians against attacks in the Russian press -- ''Zeitung für Stadt und Land'', for example, observed that the Latvians had a third path open to them, besides Germanization or Russification: retaining their identity. In defending Latvian against Cyrillic, Baltic Germans like Bielenstein found common ground with their Latvian political enemies -- to the horror of the Russians. What I am suggesting, then, is that it may have been laissez-faire between the 1850s and the 1880s, but only so long as the Latvians were ''not'' nationalists but merely anti-German Lettophiles and Slavophiles, and even apolitical Lettophilia was extremely suspect in an increasingly illiberal empire. "Not agitating for independence," to boil it down, really meant not only "not agitating for autonomy," which they also did not do -- it meant "not agitating for anything."
			* we have an active ]. As of now, our project has tagged almost 83,000 pages as Poland-related - that's an improvement of over 3,000 new pages since the last newsletter. Out of which 30 still need a , and 2,000, . We have done a lot to clear the backlog here (3 years ago those numbers were 1,500 and 20,000, respectively). Can you help assess a few pages?
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			* also, those articles will be included in our , which allows us to see which top-importance articles are in need for attention, and so on. We have tens of thousands articles in need of cleanup there, so if you ever need something to do, just look at this gigantic list. (I am currently reviewing the articles tagged with notability, either proving them notable or nominating for deletion; there are still several dozens left if you want to help!).
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	:::Valdemārs was a pragmatist and materialist, a "''reālpolītisks minimālists''" as Blanks defines him, who joined a cultural Lettophilia to an enthusiastic cosmopolitanism; the Russification he supported was education in the language, not coercive assimilation, and he always thought in practical terms (as when he suggested that Latvian veterans of the Russian army being settled in Voronezh guberniya be settled here instead and teach the Latvians Russian; Valdemārs was also quite clever in opposing Cyrillic). Living under police supervision in Moscow, however, he did not appreciate how far his nation had come. Many writers contrast Kronvaldu Atis' more spiritual thought with Valdemārs' -- again, this was a cultural but not a political nationalism, and Valdemārs himself notes that the Young Latvians had no political program at first; Kronvalds saw the Latvians and Russians as entering into a compact, however, with Russia having the duty to protect the Latvian language and culture in exchange for the Latvians' loyalty (thinking similar to the Germans'). Many Young Latvians naïvely believed that they could "drive out the German Devil with the Russian Beelzebub" (Švābe), but this was not be, obviously -- Mikhail Zinoviev, the governor, explained to the Riga Latvian Association in 1887 that "to us, Estonians and Latvians will only be a useful element when they become Russians."

			With all that said, how about you join our discussions at ]? Surely, there must be something you could help others with, or perhaps you are in need of assistance yourself?
	:::This brings us to the 1890s and the advent of a Marxism that not only the right (e.g., Blanks) but also the left (e.g., Jansons-Brauns) labels ''dilettantist'' -- the New Current. Histories and contemporaries indicate, however, that it wasn't a matter of socialism ''replacing'' nationalism so much as the national movement reaching a point of crisis; a critic of the New Current, Alexander Weber (Vēbers -- an ethnic German who had in some sense assimilated, but later abandoned "Latvianness" in response to 1905) was among the many who saw it coming, observing the growing gulf between the growing Latvian bourgeoisie and the increasingly desperate masses. The Baltic Germans had lost their potency as the enemy. Much of the left saw nationality and its manifestations as the plaything of an exploitative élite that used and abused the ethnic as part of its business plan. Still, even "internationalism" didn't necessarily bring Russian and Latvian socialists together -- attacks on the war with Japan by the Latvian left, printed in 1904, noted that Asians were the Latvians' allies, victims of Russian imperialism like the Ukrainians, Poles, and Lithuanians, who suffered the most under the Tsar. All of this against a background of very dramatic demographic changes, with Latvia second only to Britain in Europe's urbanization -- meanwhile, there was a rural exodus not only to the cities but also to Russia proper, whilst settlers replaced those who departed (e.g., ca. 68 000 foreigners, mostly Russians, arrived in Latgola between 1895 and 1902, whilst the Dvinsk military garrison alone numbered 12 700 ).

			It took me three years to finish this issue. Feel free to help out getting the next one before 2017 by being more active in WikiProject management :)
	:::Most of the above doesn't belong in this article, of course -- I'm afraid I must drift into some general observations on "the story of Latvia." My main point is that it is almost impossible to delineate the political currents in that period (''those periods'', actually -- ca. 1850-1890, 1890-1905, 1905-1914), because they overlap and twist (and are often very shallow, too, with only a few fish in them); it actually took a minor eddy on the extreme left, the erstwhile эсеры Valters and Rolavs, to "invent" autonomy, and in the view of some revive a nationalism that "had gone down into herring" (Rainis) -- Valters moved rightward in the 1920s, abandoning his liberal views with regard to the minorities as impracticable when the nation drifted toward what you are calling "ultra-nationalism." I'm trying to draw attention to some major questions in our history, some of which Jānis Peniķis identified -- for example, what is the meaning of 1905? I recommend by Jānis Krēsliņš seniors, published in ''Diena'' last January (in Latvian). As Krēsliņš underlines, a definitive history of 1905 has not yet been written. He points to two opposing views of the Revolution, the nationalist and the Marxist, and the fact is that most Latvian historiography holds one of these two prisms. I refer to Ernests Blanks, a rightist ideologue from whose work the concept of the three National Awakenings was derived, deliberately -- as Oļģerts Liepiņš notes in his preface to Blanks' book, our nation-state is in large part the result of 1905, simply because almost all of Latvia's founders "were involved in that mutiny, and many retained their destructive approach to the bourgeois, who were also human and also wanted to enjoy freedom." Liepiņš offers a metaphorical apple tree -- one branch growing democracy, the other turning bright red. This is gross oversimplification, of course, but it helps bring some of the dynamics into relief. These dynamics echo loudly through later Latvian history -- whilst Liepiņš claims that 1905 had a socialist basis and was only later given a nationalist tint, leftists like Fēlikss Cielēns see independence as the child of that revolution. The class differences and their politics are integral to what happened, of course -- why most of the Latvians did not ally with the Germans and vice-versa, though Grosvalds et al. ended up in the ''Rate''; German and Russian lists ''were'' together at times, and few Latvians had the money to qualify as voters -- there was also a brief phase in which the Latvian bourgeoisie ''was'' allied with the Germans municipally.

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	:::I eagerly await the next section, Pēter! Inesis Feldmanis does not mince words when it comes to the Russian minority in the interbellum: according to him, most did not identify with Latvia. In 1930, only 18,9% of the Russians spoke Latvian. The local Russian language press expressed satisfaction at the growth of Russian power with the invasions of Finland and Poland, its true sympathies revealed after the conclusion of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. (Daina Bleiere, Ilgvars Butulis, Inesis Feldmanis, Aivars Stranga, Antonijs Zunda: ''Latvijas vēsture: 20. gadsimts.'' Rīga: Jumava, 2005.) I've already said that I disbelieve in historians' objectivity -- I should add that I believe treating more POV rather than trying to eliminate POV is a better way to achieve the fabled NPOV, and IMO this is particularly true when trying to provide an overview, which necessarily involves generalizations. In the case of the Russian and Baltic German minorities, I do not see how the subject (and, indeed, Latvian history in the 20th C and the processes today) can be treated meaningfully without treating the concept of an "imperial minority." --] 20:00, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
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			== Some baklava for you! ==
	::::About... ''simply because almost all of Latvia's founders "were involved in that mutiny''--an obvious one is Čakste himself, who had to flee after signing the Viborg Manifesto. And you are right about the Russians during the first independence. When Schiemann was working to define minority rights, the Russians were always a lagging third behind the Germans and Jews. They simply were not as motivated to participate. If you can give me the source for some of your literacy figures, some of that would be some good additional detail to work in! --] 03:35, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

			{\| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	==Occupation of Baltic States==
			\|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" \| ]
	Great comment on the claim that there was no occupation on the talk page to ] - many thanks!
			\|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" \| I am fresh out of wiki kittens; please accept this cake as a thank you for your support and thoughtful comments during my (now withdrawn) RfA. What doesn't kill us... Cheers, <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]\|]</sub> 11:33, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
	I was just wondering .. could you copy-paste the comment to the same claim that has been made on the talk page of the article on ], or, if that's too much of a bother, let me quote you there? I can't think of better words to explain the situation with, but don't want to "plagiarise" you without asking you either.
			\|}
			: It's quite clear there is a large and vocal contingent that believes EEML was formed as a conspiracy (not), was your personal cabal (not), that circumstance proved intent (not), that kvetching proved intent to assault editors off-Wiki (not), et al. In my own case, I read Emails I "responded" to long after any of my edits. WP did not have the human decency to acknowledge that yes, I might have had other things to do than read Email, as in caring for my slowly dying mother. ''Metaphorically, if someone breaks into a bank, the assumption is that they are there to steal, not to head off the real robbers and protect the money.'' I ask, where is evidence of a single edit which was not reputably sourced, factual, and free of propaganda? There is no such evidence. Indeed, EEML's most vitriolic ethnic-hate-spewing critics insisted EEML had been around forever because they could discern no change in on-Wiki behavior.
			: I can only suggest you continue in your quest, for these reasons:
			:# you care about Misplaced Pages--where others do not;
			:# you put Misplaced Pages to use in academia and encourage academia to participate and contribute--where others do not; and
			:# lastly, your adminship nomination is the litmus test by which to judge if the poisonous attack-dog misanthropic atmosphere pervading WP and which drives editors away has improved; you've committed to do create content and to hold WP to an encyclopedic standard--where others do not.
			: In every case, WP is better off with you--where with others it is not. ]<small> ►]</small> 23:50, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

			==WWII infobox==
	Thanks!

			As you have edited that page, you are welcome to participate in a discussion that is taking place at ]. Thank you. <small>]</small> ]<sup><small> ]</small></sup> 03:39, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
	] 00:59, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

			==] re-nominated for deletion==
	:I'll be glad to oblige, I'll get to it in the next couple of days (extremely busy at work!) --] 01:19, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
			Since you contributed to or were otherwise involved in the ], you may or may not wish to comment on the new afD nomination, found here: ] I intend on leaving this note to everyone who edited the first AFD and has not yet contributed to the new discussion or been otherwise notified. Thanks! :) ] ] ] 16:37, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

			==Circassia again==
			What do you make of all this? ] --] (]) 00:33, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
			: Seems to me something on the periphery (Mir-Fattah) has been promoted to a central role. I left more general comments at the article, many thanks for your work in restoring (far) more scholarly content. ]<small> ►]</small> 14:47, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

			== Questions: Classics of Russian military startegies ==

			Hello Vecrumba. How are you ? As you indicated your interest in military history, I come to you for your opionion. Do you know (any) Classic text or book written, with the original written in Russian or some native/local language which cover or overview Russian military strategies ? -- ] ] 16:26, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
			:Unfortunately not. Most of my exposure to classic Russian military theory has come from the late Tsarist era via those Latvians who fought in Latvia's war of independence and who had served prior, with distinction, in the Tsarist army after graduating military training. For example, in the biography of Briedis we find the following:
			::"In the autumn of 1905 Briedis had found a new aim - military service. The whole winter he had studied diligently and in the spring of 1906 he passed the entry examination for the Orel Cadet Corps. Next autumn he passed the competitive exam in St Petersburg for the Vladimir Junker School. Here he began a totally new life, quite different from the dreams of his childhood and early youth. This new life was harsh..."
			: Schools such as the Vladimir Junker were for army cadets and also provided some secondary education. I would try to find out if there were any records of the specifics on the curricula taught in the 19th century--or earlier. Of course, that would be "original research" from Wikiepdia's standpoint, so while informative research, it wouldn't apply directly to writing articles.
			: Particularly starting with Peter the Great, who was an avid student of military strategy, visiting Riga while under the Swedish and studying its fortifications, for example--and his "Westward" look to advance the standing of the Russian Empire, there are quite a number of works on the history and conduct of the Russian military, for example, here's a recent book which looks like it covers exactly the kind of information you would be looking for: .
			: While web research is useful, my personal experience is that one excellent book on the topic, read cover to cover in hard copy so you can annotate and stick in bookmarks or sticky-notes is the wisest investment regardless of the cost. And every good book has a bibliography pointing to more sources. Hope this helps. :-)
			: ]<small> ►]</small> 15:53, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

			== A Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!! to all ==

			I do peek in from time to time, unfortunately, other projects including job hunting at the moment are taking priority. My warmest wishes to friends and foes (as long as they stick to reputable sources). ]<small> ►]</small> 18:36, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

			== ] ==

			You have been wrong removing the POV tag.
			*I have just found the description of the encyclopedia in the ''Censorship. Encyclopedia'' which existed in 2013. A western reader has to read many books to understand the encyclopedia.
			*The list of editors is unsourced, I have added information about the murder of the three editors, who were subsequently ''edited'', both as editors and subjects.] (]) 08:25, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
			** Benton's information all came from talking to the GSE editors. I removed your tags. Feel free to examine the source to add any information you feel should be added. Unfortunately my copy is currently packed away in storage. It's not good form to tag referenced content as not having references. Perhaps you're unclear on the purpose of the citation requested tag. Welcome to WP, good luck! ]<small> ►]</small> 23:07, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
			** P.S. I see you've been editing for some time now. Apologies I don't have the source handy, when I do I'm glad to expand on Benton's conversations. ]<small> ►]</small>

			== PLZ!!! ==

			"radio signals from Minsk to guide the Luftwaffe". PLZ GIVE SOURCES PLZ !!! <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 16:08, 21 May 2016 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			: My source was Jan Karski's book on Poland caught between Germany and the Soviet Union. I'll dig it out when I have a chance. ]<small> ►]</small> 01:59, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
			::Alas, still in storage! ]<small> ►]</small> 04:16, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

			== ] ==

			Hi. I see you are listed as a member of a WikiProject of a Baltic state.
			I was wondering if anybody who actively works on Estonian, Lithuanian or Latvian articles, would be interested in launching your own ], based on the ] and ]. The idea would be to try to bring about 1000 article improvements and creations on this region as an enjoyable challenge and potentially things like National Contests with prizes. If you'd be interested and think it's something you might regularly contribute to, comment and sign up at ]. If there is interest we can move this to a project somewhere and set something up, thanks. --] (]) 19:26, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
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			== Soviet occupation of the Baltic States ==

			Hi, I wonder if you could help me with a question. I recently referred to the Latvian SSR as the Soviet occupation of Latvia, and someone asked me if there is any Misplaced Pages consensus about this. Do you know? Thanks ] (]) 17:54, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
			: Hi, Yakikaki - There is no question of a consensus. Latvia was invaded and occupied by the Soviet Union, illegally annexed, then invaded and occupied by Nazi Germany, then re-invaded/re-captured by the Soviet Union. You may be interested to know that the Latvian Legation in exile continued to represent Latvia's sovereign de jure interests, plenipotentiary power having been transferred to Kārlis Zariņš (aka Charles Zarine) in London. Anatols Dinbergs was Latvia's sovereign representative at the time independence was restored; there was a formal ceremony transferring sovereign authority back to the local Latvian authority. Russia maintains that Latvia joined Russia willingly and legally according to international law. That is simply false, not an alternate valid opinion. Hope this helps! ]<small> ►]</small> 01:52, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
			::Thank you very much for taking the time to give this excellent answer. Kind regards,] (]) 07:21, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
			::: Glad to help. Thank you for your work on the Wiki Challenge! :-) ]<small> ►]</small> 04:31, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

			== Hindsight is 2020 ==

			Still dropping in occasionally to look up past areas of interest. Too many off-Wiki projects{{mdash}}likely to continue as such for the next year or two. My current "topical" projects focus on the Latvian Legion and the Holocaust in Nazi-occupied Latvia. ]<small> ►]</small> 00:51, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

			== Nice to meet you ==

			I've just edited the text and in ] and saw your name in the ref. ] (]) 01:37, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
			: Cześć! Apologies that I have not been around much the past few years. For the Lettophiles watching, I do hope to get back to the ] by some time next year. ]<small> ►]</small> 18:35, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

			== To my Ukrainian editor friends ==

			Apologies I have been away from Misplaced Pages for some time, life gets in the way. I hope all the Ukrainian editors I came to work with and respect are keeping safe at this time of Russia's unprecedented assault on the world order at the heart of, against the heart of, Europe: Ukraine. '''Слава Україні'''! ]<small> ►]</small> 06:21, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

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Latest revision as of 02:06, 4 December 2024

Archives

1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Odds and ends

Limited Wikitime owing to family circumstances, ongoing
Archived January 8th, 2008
Archived May 1st, 2008
Archived Christmas, 2009
Archived September 5, 2010
Archived December 28, 2013

A Start for You

You deserve this to balance out Anonimu and Anittas. — $PЯINGεrαgђ 03:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC) Copy Editor's Barnstar

I award you this Copy Editor's Barnstar for insisting on clear, comprehensible, and grammatically correct articles.—Jim Sweeney (talk) 07:51, 12 June 2010 (UTC) Scandalous!

Hello Vecrumba, Viriditas has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing! Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Cookies for you!

Cookies!
Some cookies to lighten up your day! Remember, it takes two to tango - it only takes you to edit uncontroversial Misplaced Pages articles. If you need a list of red links, just let me know. /♥фĩłдωəß♥\ 11:27, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Best wishes...

I've been busy on web site projects for some months now, but am back "on a limited basis". A belated Merry Christmas and best wishes for a Happy New Year, especially to my Eastern/Central/Baltic Europe editorial compatriots! :-)

Laimīgu Jauno gadu!
Head uut aastat!
Naujųjų Metų!
Szczęśliwego Nowego Roku!
An Nou Fericit!
Boldog Új Évet!
З Новим Роком!
!מזל ניו יאר
С Новым Годом!

Among other projects, I've relaunched LATVIANS.COM and CFBH.ORG (Center for Baltic Heritage) with consolidated and updated content and usability improvements @ LATVIANS.COM. I've also relaunched LATVIANAVIATION.COM, the site of my dear departed friend Gunars Zulis, with much improved navigation,. In case you thought I was on a beach somewhere sipping margaritas, alas, I only wish! VєсrumЬа ►TALK 03:23, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Laimīgu Jauno gadu! It's good to see you back (even if only in a limited capacity). You're intelligence, analytical abilities and constructive criticism is a precious commodity, particularly for those of us still on a learning curve trying to smack down the "too many years working as a researcher" monkey on our backs. Cheers! --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:12, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Gulag

Hello

Unfortunately, I was in Latvia in 2011 and now I not remember :(

Best regards --Pudelek (talk) 17:40, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your note! Z szacunkiem, VєсrumЬа ►TALK 17:50, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Police in Nazi-occupied Latvia

Could you confirm that the recently redirected Latvian Auxiliary Police and the Latvian Police Battalions refer to the same subject? While the stories seem to fit more or less, there are some important details that suggest a difference (volunteers vs volunteers and conscripts; participation in Holocaust). Should the redirection be reverted, or should sourced information from the former be moved to the latter? Thank you, and I hope you have a happy new year! Anonimu (talk) 12:06, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Anonimu. The Hilfspolizei (reported to the Sicherheitsfienst, SD) were not the Schutzmannschaft were not the Hilfs+polizei--that is, local "auxiliary" police but not reporting to the SD in collaborating in the Holocaust, unfortunately the same noun in German. Under no circumstances should those be merged. Looking forward to a more collaborative 2014. VєсrumЬа ►TALK 00:46, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Poland Newsletter (keeping as reminder)

WikiProject Poland Newsletter • January 2014 • Issue II
For our freedom and yours

Welcome to the second issue of WikiProject Poland newsletter, the Monitor (named after the first Polish newspaper).

Our Project has been operational since 1 June, 2005, and also serves as the Poland-related Misplaced Pages notice board. I highly recommend watchlisting the Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Poland page, so you can be aware of the ongoing discussions. We hope you will join us in them, if you haven't done so already! Unlike many other WikiProjects, we are quite active; we get close to a hundred discussion threads each year and we do a pretty good job at answering all issues raised. Last year we were featured in the Signpost, and our interviewer was amazed at our activity. In the end, however, even as active as we are, we are just a tiny group - you can easily become one of our core members!

In addition to a lively encyclopedic, Poland-related, English-language discussion forum, we have numerous useful tools that can be of use to you - and that you could help us maintain and develop:

we have an active assessment department. As of now, our project has tagged almost 83,000 pages as Poland-related - that's an improvement of over 3,000 new pages since the last newsletter. Out of which 30 still need a quality assessment, and 2,000, importance assessment. We have done a lot to clear the backlog here (3 years ago those numbers were 1,500 and 20,000, respectively). Can you help assess a few pages?
- assessing articles is as easy as filling in the class= and importance= parameters on the talk page in the {{WPPOLAND|class=|importance=}} template. See here for a how-to guide.
once an article has an assessment template, it will appear in our article alerts and news feed, which provides information on which Poland-related articles are considered for deletion, move, or are undergoing a Good or Featured review. Watchlisting that feed, in addition to watchlisting our project's main page, is a good way to make sure you stay up to date on most Poland-related discussions.
you can also see detailed deletion discussions at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Poland (which is a good place to watchlist if you just want to stay up to date on possible deletions of Poland-related content)
we have also begun B-class quality reviews on our talk page, and if our activity increases, hopefully we will be able to institute our own A-class quality reviews. As of now, we have about 500 C-class articles in need of a B-class review. If you'd like to help with them, instructions for doing B-class reviews are to be found in point 10 of our assessment FAQ. In addition to this automated list, you are also encouraged to help review articles from our B-class reviews requested list found here.
also, those articles will be included in our cleanup listing, which allows us to see which top-importance articles are in need for attention, and so on. We have tens of thousands articles in need of cleanup there, so if you ever need something to do, just look at this gigantic list. (I am currently reviewing the articles tagged with notability, either proving them notable or nominating for deletion; there are still several dozens left if you want to help!).
did you know that newly created Poland-related articles are listed here. They need to be reviewed, often cleaned-up, occasionally nominated for deletion, and their creators may need to be welcomed and invited to our project if they show promise as new authors of Poland-related content.
we are maintaining a Portal:Poland
automated Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Poland/Popular pages lists the most popular Poland-related pages from the previous month(s)
Breaking news: we are looking for a Wikipedian in Residence for the New York City area. See Misplaced Pages:GLAM/Józef Piłsudski Institute of America for details.

This is not all; on our page you can find a list of useful templates (including userboxes), awards and other tools!

With all that said, how about you join our discussions at WT:POLAND? Surely, there must be something you could help others with, or perhaps you are in need of assistance yourself?

It took me three years to finish this issue. Feel free to help out getting the next one before 2017 by being more active in WikiProject management :)

You have received this newsletter because you are listed as a member at WikiProject Poland.
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Newsletter prepared by _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} and sent by Technical 13 (talk) using the Mass message system.

Some baklava for you!

I am fresh out of wiki kittens; please accept this cake as a thank you for your support and thoughtful comments during my (now withdrawn) RfA. What doesn't kill us... Cheers, _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:33, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

It's quite clear there is a large and vocal contingent that believes EEML was formed as a conspiracy (not), was your personal cabal (not), that circumstance proved intent (not), that kvetching proved intent to assault editors off-Wiki (not), et al. In my own case, I read Emails I "responded" to long after any of my edits. WP did not have the human decency to acknowledge that yes, I might have had other things to do than read Email, as in caring for my slowly dying mother. Metaphorically, if someone breaks into a bank, the assumption is that they are there to steal, not to head off the real robbers and protect the money. I ask, where is evidence of a single edit which was not reputably sourced, factual, and free of propaganda? There is no such evidence. Indeed, EEML's most vitriolic ethnic-hate-spewing critics insisted EEML had been around forever because they could discern no change in on-Wiki behavior.

I can only suggest you continue in your quest, for these reasons:

you care about Misplaced Pages--where others do not;
you put Misplaced Pages to use in academia and encourage academia to participate and contribute--where others do not; and
lastly, your adminship nomination is the litmus test by which to judge if the poisonous attack-dog misanthropic atmosphere pervading WP and which drives editors away has improved; you've committed to do create content and to hold WP to an encyclopedic standard--where others do not.

In every case, WP is better off with you--where with others it is not. VєсrumЬа ►TALK 23:50, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

WWII infobox

As you have edited that page, you are welcome to participate in a discussion that is taking place at Template_talk:WW2InfoBox#Allies. Thank you. victor falk 03:39, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Jews and Communism re-nominated for deletion

Since you contributed to or were otherwise involved in the original afD nomination, you may or may not wish to comment on the new afD nomination, found here: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Jews and Communism (2nd nomination) I intend on leaving this note to everyone who edited the first AFD and has not yet contributed to the new discussion or been otherwise notified. Thanks! :) Flipandflopped (Discuss, Contribs) 16:37, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Circassia again

What do you make of all this? ] --Yalens (talk) 00:33, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Seems to me something on the periphery (Mir-Fattah) has been promoted to a central role. I left more general comments at the article, many thanks for your work in restoring (far) more scholarly content. VєсrumЬа ►TALK 14:47, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Questions: Classics of Russian military startegies

Hello Vecrumba. How are you ? As you indicated your interest in military history, I come to you for your opionion. Do you know (any) Classic text or book written, with the original written in Russian or some native/local language which cover or overview Russian military strategies ? -- Ktsquare (talk) 16:26, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately not. Most of my exposure to classic Russian military theory has come from the late Tsarist era via those Latvians who fought in Latvia's war of independence and who had served prior, with distinction, in the Tsarist army after graduating military training. For example, in the biography of Briedis we find the following:

"In the autumn of 1905 Briedis had found a new aim - military service. The whole winter he had studied diligently and in the spring of 1906 he passed the entry examination for the Orel Cadet Corps. Next autumn he passed the competitive exam in St Petersburg for the Vladimir Junker School. Here he began a totally new life, quite different from the dreams of his childhood and early youth. This new life was harsh..."

Schools such as the Vladimir Junker were for army cadets and also provided some secondary education. I would try to find out if there were any records of the specifics on the curricula taught in the 19th century--or earlier. Of course, that would be "original research" from Wikiepdia's standpoint, so while informative research, it wouldn't apply directly to writing articles.

Particularly starting with Peter the Great, who was an avid student of military strategy, visiting Riga while under the Swedish and studying its fortifications, for example--and his "Westward" look to advance the standing of the Russian Empire, there are quite a number of works on the history and conduct of the Russian military, for example, here's a recent book which looks like it covers exactly the kind of information you would be looking for: Reforming the Tsar's Army: Military Innovation in Imperial Russia from Peter the Great to the Revolution.

While web research is useful, my personal experience is that one excellent book on the topic, read cover to cover in hard copy so you can annotate and stick in bookmarks or sticky-notes is the wisest investment regardless of the cost. And every good book has a bibliography pointing to more sources. Hope this helps. :-)

VєсrumЬа ►TALK 15:53, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

A Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!! to all

I do peek in from time to time, unfortunately, other projects including job hunting at the moment are taking priority. My warmest wishes to friends and foes (as long as they stick to reputable sources). VєсrumЬа ►TALK 18:36, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Great Soviet Encyclopedia

You have been wrong removing the POV tag.

I have just found the description of the encyclopedia in the Censorship. Encyclopedia which existed in 2013. A western reader has to read many books to understand the encyclopedia.
The list of editors is unsourced, I have added information about the murder of the three editors, who were subsequently edited, both as editors and subjects.Xx236 (talk) 08:25, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- Benton's information all came from talking to the GSE editors. I removed your tags. Feel free to examine the source to add any information you feel should be added. Unfortunately my copy is currently packed away in storage. It's not good form to tag referenced content as not having references. Perhaps you're unclear on the purpose of the citation requested tag. Welcome to WP, good luck! VєсrumЬа ►TALK 23:07, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
- P.S. I see you've been editing for some time now. Apologies I don't have the source handy, when I do I'm glad to expand on Benton's conversations. VєсrumЬа ►TALK

PLZ!!!

"radio signals from Minsk to guide the Luftwaffe". PLZ GIVE SOURCES PLZ !!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by NeutralRusName (talk • contribs) 16:08, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

My source was Jan Karski's book on Poland caught between Germany and the Soviet Union. I'll dig it out when I have a chance. VєсrumЬа ►TALK 01:59, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

Alas, still in storage! VєсrumЬа ►TALK 04:16, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:The 1000 Challenge (Baltic)

Hi. I see you are listed as a member of a WikiProject of a Baltic state. I was wondering if anybody who actively works on Estonian, Lithuanian or Latvian articles, would be interested in launching your own Misplaced Pages:The 1000 Challenge (Baltic), based on the Misplaced Pages:The 1000 Challenge (Nordic) and Misplaced Pages:The 10,000 Challenge. The idea would be to try to bring about 1000 article improvements and creations on this region as an enjoyable challenge and potentially things like National Contests with prizes. If you'd be interested and think it's something you might regularly contribute to, comment and sign up at Talk:Baltic states. If there is interest we can move this to a project somewhere and set something up, thanks. --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:26, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Soviet occupation of the Baltic States

Hi, I wonder if you could help me with a question. I recently referred to the Latvian SSR as the Soviet occupation of Latvia, and someone asked me if there is any Misplaced Pages consensus about this. Do you know? Thanks Yakikaki (talk) 17:54, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Yakikaki - There is no question of a consensus. Latvia was invaded and occupied by the Soviet Union, illegally annexed, then invaded and occupied by Nazi Germany, then re-invaded/re-captured by the Soviet Union. You may be interested to know that the Latvian Legation in exile continued to represent Latvia's sovereign de jure interests, plenipotentiary power having been transferred to Kārlis Zariņš (aka Charles Zarine) in London. Anatols Dinbergs was Latvia's sovereign representative at the time independence was restored; there was a formal ceremony transferring sovereign authority back to the local Latvian authority. Russia maintains that Latvia joined Russia willingly and legally according to international law. That is simply false, not an alternate valid opinion. Hope this helps! VєсrumЬа ►TALK 01:52, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very much for taking the time to give this excellent answer. Kind regards,Yakikaki (talk) 07:21, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

Glad to help. Thank you for your work on the Wiki Challenge! :-) VєсrumЬа ►TALK 04:31, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Hindsight is 2020

Still dropping in occasionally to look up past areas of interest. Too many off-Wiki projects—likely to continue as such for the next year or two. My current "topical" projects focus on the Latvian Legion and the Holocaust in Nazi-occupied Latvia. VєсrumЬа ►TALK 00:51, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Nice to meet you

I've just edited the text and and this ref in Katyn massacre and saw your name in the ref. Lembit Staan (talk) 01:37, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Cześć! Apologies that I have not been around much the past few years. For the Lettophiles watching, I do hope to get back to the History of Riga by some time next year. VєсrumЬа ►TALK 18:35, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

To my Ukrainian editor friends

Apologies I have been away from Misplaced Pages for some time, life gets in the way. I hope all the Ukrainian editors I came to work with and respect are keeping safe at this time of Russia's unprecedented assault on the world order at the heart of, against the heart of, Europe: Ukraine. Слава Україні! VєсrumЬа ►TALK 06:21, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

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Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nominations open

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The Bugle: Issue 212, December 2023

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The Bugle: Issue 223, November 2024

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Happy First Edit Day!

Happy First Edit Day!
Hi Vecrumba! On behalf of the Birthday Committee, I'd like to wish you a very happy anniversary of the day you made your first edit and became a Wikipedian! DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 02:06, 4 December 2024 (UTC)