| Revision as of 22:57, 20 March 2017 editBzazaian11 (talk | contribs)94 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 12:29, 5 February 2023 edit undoCordless Larry (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators56,547 edits →Is there any news on Iryna?: Reply |
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{{notaround|3=August 9, 2020}} |
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{{busy|reason=moving house until around April <small>'''(WAAAH! STRESS, STRESS!!!)'''</small>,}} |
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== A barnstar for your efforts == |
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{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;" |
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== Happy Christmas == |
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|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:top;" | {{#ifeq:alt|alt|]|]}} |
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<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:red; background-color:#fff; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">] |
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] — ] is wishing you a ] ]! This greeting (and season) promotes ] and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a ], whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year! <br /> |
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''Spread the cheer by adding {{tls|Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.'' |
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==Yo Ho Ho== |
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] (]) is wishing you ]! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's ] or ], ], ], ], ], ] or even the ], this is a special time of year for almost everyone! <br /> |
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<small>Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{]:]}} to your friends' talk pages</small>. |
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==Yo Ho Ho== |
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] ] is wishing you ]! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's ] or ], ], ], ], ], ] or even the ], this is a special time of year for almost everyone! <br /> |
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<small>Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{]:]}} to your friends' talk pages</small>. |
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== Eid Mubarak! == |
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] (]) — is wishing you a Happy New Year! This greeting (and season) promotes ] and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year! <br /> |
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Spread the New Year cheer by adding {{tls|New Year 1}} to their talk page with a friendly message. |
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== list of genocides by death toll. == |
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Hello Iryna, |
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I appreciate your response and I agree that the Thirty Years War was religious rather than racial or ethnic. However, having read on the military conduct of various parties during the war it is clear that the Thirty Years War could fit the modern definition of genocide since it was an attempt to destroy in part, members of a religious or ethnic group. And even if we can debate and conclude that the Thirty Years War was not genocide it still would not justify being removed from the aforementioned lists of other atrocities listed as "non-genocidal mass killings". The fact is that even though the Thirty Years War may not have a scholarly consensus of being an act of genocide it certainly is an episode in history that involved mass killing. This is the reason why included it among the list of other "non-genocidal mass murders". If the Indonesian politicize and Great Leap Forward which are certainly not genocidal on ethnic or racial grounds can be mentioned then why not the Thirty Years War? Also, I would like to point out that there is no citation in the article supporting the inclusion of all the atrocities mentioned which are referred to as non-genocidal mass killings. Lastly, I'm not sure why nearly all those mass killings listed are from the Asian far east when there are so many examples of mass killings that have taken place throughout the world so I believe some balance ought to be implemented here. I certainly look forward to hearing your feedback Iryna. --Balisong5 <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 02:06, 29 January 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Hi, {{u|Balisong5}}. Apologies for taking so much time in getting back to you, but I've been busy IRL. I consider your arguments to be valid and, yes, I believe a European example is justified for balance. Keep up the good work, and happy editing! --] (]) 09:17, 28 February 2017 (UTC) |
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== To apostrophe or not to apostrophe == |
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I'd like your quick advice on whether or not ] and ] (both are redirects to ]) are more than random typos. I was going to take them to ], but it occurred to me that the addition of the apostrophe might be a language thing. I tried reading ], but couldn't glean anything useful. So I thought I'd ask you, who edits there and probably knows a <s>little</s> lot more about the topic. |
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Redirects are often created for typical typos and misspellings. Is this the case here? Thanks in advance for any comments you have. And no rush—I know how all-consuming and exhausting moving can be! — ] (]) 05:19, 3 February 2017 (UTC) |
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:Hi, {{u|Gorthian}}. The apostrophe is a transliteration convention designating the 'softening sign' for the letter 'l' per Russian and Ukrainian spelling. As its ] is Sevastopol, I can't imagine that the apostrophe at the end would have any meaning to an English language reader: I certainly can't envisage it being used as a search term under conventional circumstances. My gut feeling is that the redirects should go, but there may be a number of reliable sources (as in English language ones) that use the convention. I suspect that if you asked other purists, they'd say the same. See ] and ]: redundant. --] (]) 05:43, 3 February 2017 (UTC) |
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::Thank you very much! I think I'll take them to RFD and see what consensus there says. — ] (]) 06:04, 3 February 2017 (UTC) |
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:::{{re|Gorthian}} It's time consuming, but an RfD is the safest way to go. I'm not aware of there having been any serious discussions of the convention in the past, but there may be some strong arguments for keeping the redirects. Drop me a line, or ping me when you've submitted the proposal. Cheers! --] (]) 19:47, 3 February 2017 (UTC) |
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::::They're ] now. We'll see what happens! — ] (]) 23:07, 18 February 2017 (UTC) |
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==Breach of agreement== |
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Hi Iryna Harpy, hope you are well on your way to a good place to live! I am sorry to come back here to notify of the , with no consequences whatsoever. I find that baffling, but anyway I reported that violation for an enforcement (request), turned down in the grounds that it is not the place. So, yes, there may be another ANI... Best regards ] (]) 12:14, 12 February 2017 (UTC) |
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== A barnstar for you! == |
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Thank you! :D ] (]) 15:08, 17 February 2017 (UTC) |
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:You are more than welcome, {{u|EkoGraf}}. You truly deserve it! --] (]) 19:35, 17 February 2017 (UTC) |
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== ] == |
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Name "Ukraine" as name for the essential central and western part of modern Ukraine appears for the first time in historical document in 1187, as well in a few historical documents in . In 16th century it became common and was widely used in letters and documents within territory of modern Ukraine and Poland. Statement "With the appearance of the ethnonym "Ukrainian" in the 19th century..." is definitely wrong and non-scientific. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 02:55, 18 February 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:{{re|Czcau}} Yes, you're correct. My revert was speedy in light of there having been no ] by you. I've self reverted to reflect that the 19th is a fallacy given that "Ukraina" appears in the Primary Chronicles, and certainly maps dating back to the 16th century specifically with reference to the current territory of Ukraine. Thanks for pulling me up on this error! --] (]) 03:12, 18 February 2017 (UTC) |
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== Nomination of ] for deletion == |
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<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article ''']''' is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to ] or whether it should be ]. |
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The article will be discussed at ] until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines. |
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Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.<!-- Template:afd-notice --> ] (]) 06:24, 26 February 2017 (UTC) |
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== ''The Signpost'': 27 February 2017 == |
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<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2017-02-27}} </div><!--Volume 13, Issue 3--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 01:20, 28 February 2017 (UTC) </div></div> |
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== White people by country == |
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Hi Iryna! I've seen you around doing great things so part of this is a friendly hello! I also wanted to ask a bit further about the AfD discussion on ]. I feel like this is for my own edification as opposed to relating to the deletion of the article, so that's why I'm not asking there. At risk of ], I'm curious why, if the term "White people" is seen as OR, other articles including the obvious ] doesn't face the same scrutiny. My guess would be, as described in section, the definition isn't consistent across countries, but because it's sourced as such it isn't seen as OR. ] aside, if you pulled that table out into it's own article and called it "White people by country" I really don't see why it would be deleted. |
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Now that I think about it, the fact that table exists seems like a sound enough reason to dump the article. Anywho, since I'm sure you have more experience than I do with these things, you're feedback would be appreciated. Oh, and again, hello! ] <span style="color:#01B0F0;letter-spacing:-2px">(</span><span style="color:#FF358B">^ᴥ^</span><span style="color:#01B0F0;letter-spacing:-2px">)</span> ] 20:25, 17 March 2017 (UTC) |
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== NPOV Noticeboard == |
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I have referred the Stolen Generations NPOV issue to the NPOV Noticeboard. ] (]) 03:10, 18 March 2017 (UTC) |
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:Thank you for informing me. I've responded there. --] (]) 19:23, 18 March 2017 (UTC) |
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== Ukrainian collaborationism with the Axis powers: Current edit warring == |
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Dear Iryna Harpy, |
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I see that you are currently involved in a discussion stemming from an edit war on ]. |
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This edit warring seems to have spilt over to ]. |
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|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Current Events Barnstar''' |
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|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Awarded for efforts in expanding and verifying articles related to the ] and ]. Awarded by ] ] 7 March 2022 (UTC) |
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{| class="barnstar" style="border:1px solid gray; background:#fdffe7;" |
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You have a lot more experience in dealing with these difficult topics than I do, so I would appreciate if you could consider some appropriate action also there. |
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|rowspan="2" style="padding-right:5px;" | ] |
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|style="font-size:1.65em; padding:0; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Working Wikipedian's Barnstar''' |
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Thanks. |
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|style="border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Awarded for efforts in expanding multiple articles to the ] and ]. Awarded by ] ] 7 March 2022 (UTC) |
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== ''The Signpost'': 28 November 2022 == |
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] (]) 16:05, 18 March 2017 (UTC) |
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:Hi, {{u|Lklundin}}. Thanks for the heads up. Sigh, an IP hopper... --] (]) 18:48, 18 March 2017 (UTC) |
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<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2022-11-28}} </div><!--Volume 18, Issue 11--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 15:41, 28 November 2022 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div> |
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::Did you just assume I was using an IP hopper to "hide"? Because clearly you have not heard about what a dynamic IP address is. On the other hand, this user by the name of 'Lute88' has repeatedly ignored my points, and has only reverted what I've done without giving any reason, of course, constantly reverting without giving a reason is not a valid action. What I did was re-phrase about the Holodomor being a "genocide that was engineered" (and this paragraph has no sources), into being neutral, as of course, anyone with basic knowledge (and I've told this user to read the page a few times) that the Holodomor being "genocide" is disputed, there is no consensus, and many historians do not consider it to be a genocide being engineered, and this is still being argued, so there should be no side being favored, because WP is neutral - ]. I hope you understand this. So far, all I've seen from the user is favoring one side according to his contribution history. ] (]) 20:48, 18 March 2017 (UTC) |
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:::Good. Take it to the ANI below. Both of you have the same ] gripe against me... on opposite sides of the fence. I'm busy IRL and am about to log out for the day... or perhaps the next couple of days. --] (]) 20:54, 18 March 2017 (UTC) |
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== Is there any news on Iryna? == |
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Sorry - just to clarify: I (the user who has contributed to the Holomodor genocide question talk page's most recent section and who added the neutrality tag two days ago and then yesterday) am not the same as the user above.--] (]) 21:16, 18 March 2017 (UTC) |
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:That did not need clarification. You are both arguing that I am breaching NPOV regarding the same subject matter, but on opposite sides of the pole. Try reading ] carefully. I don't believe that you actually understand the concept as it is applied to Misplaced Pages (or encyclopaedic resources in general). I've already explained to you that your proposal is flawed ]. --] (]) 21:27, 18 March 2017 (UTC) |
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==Clarification== |
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I just want to clarify, my argument is that the article itself isn't internally consistent – so it's not so much that I'm on one side of the fence or the other, as I think from a neutral perspective the article fails. (I responded to your SYNTH suggestion, with the reliable sources you requested, to no response.) You also accused me of vandalism, which you fundamentally cannot support. Regardless of that, The following are both true: |
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#The vast majority of academics consider the famine to be a genocide, Tauger himself acknowledges this. |
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#There is still a sizable subset of academics who do not consider the famine to meet the definition of genocide, and using Tauger as a stand-in for this viewpoint doesn't make sense. Again, the article mentions Robert Davies and Stephen Wheatcroft as critics of Tauger, but it does not mention that they do not consider the famine to be a genocide. The article mentions James Mace's view ... but his view has been notably inconsistent through his articles, as the Bilinsky piece points out. |
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This is an article on the "question," so the above deficiencies aren't really acceptable, and they do compromise the article's neutrality. What I'm trying to detail is that the article can acknowledge the consensus ''without'' being biased, but it does not currently do that.--] (]) 23:44, 18 March 2017 (UTC) |
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:I do not disagree with you that the article is problematic. We have another article (]) which is equally problematic. The content overlaps and, in both instances, there are serious POV problems. My thinking is that the 'denial' article is essentially a reiteration of the same subject matter, and that they are ] articles trying to fly under the radar. Initially, they were treated as separate questions, but mass refactoring of both articles has made two versions redundant. --] (]) 04:40, 19 March 2017 (UTC) |
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::Okay! I'm glad we can agree on the NPOV issues. I absolutely agree that the articles seem redundant. I'd suggest merging ] ''into'' ], simply because I'm not sure (following the Bilinsky piece) that there's ''enough'' academic consensus to call the null hypothesis "denial," but I'm not enough of an expert on the subject to make that decision. That'll be a really tough discussion, but it probably is worth having. I'd like to add {{]}} {{]}} and {{]}} to the Scholarly Debate section of the latter article. I will be very clear that I do not mean to suggest that we should have a 50/50 split, only that one side isn't adequately represented; I apologize that I did not do an adequate job of articulating that earlier. (The other templates only being added for the fact that context is necessary for the quotations; I think ideally we could have two sections outlining general reasons for acknowledgement / skepticism over the claim, and then lay out specific authors who are particularly notable.) I'm also striking the ANI seeing as it sounds like we've come to a solid agreement; sorry it was such a rough go getting there.--] (]) 05:40, 19 March 2017 (UTC) |
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Have any page watchers heard from Iryna? I've been thinking for a while that it's been a while since I saw her name appear on my watchlist, and when I checked how long it had been today, it's actually longer than I thought. I know that she'd been unwell for some time. I just tried e-mailing her but the message bounced. ] (]) 21:04, 31 December 2022 (UTC) |
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== RFC == |
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:Pinging {{u|Ymblanter}}, {{u|Faustian}}, {{u|RGloucester}}, {{u|Pincrete}}, {{u|My very best wishes}}, {{u|JimRenge}}, {{u|LynwoodF}}, in case any of you have heard anything. ] (]) 17:06, 1 January 2023 (UTC) |
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::No, I do not know anything. ] (]) 17:07, 1 January 2023 (UTC) |
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::No, I have heard nothing either. I have been concerned about her for a while. She is one of those people who make it a pleasure to work on WP. We co-operated briefly on a Ukraine-related matter, but that was long before the invasion began. ] (]) 18:19, 1 January 2023 (UTC) |
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:::Don't know anything you don't know ie that there were health concerns up to mid-2020. If you find anything out, please let me know. Hopefully she'll turn up and tell us to get off her talk page!] (]) 18:34, 1 January 2023 (UTC) |
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::::I have no news from her. I assume that she would be still editing if she would be able to do so. ] (]) 18:54, 1 January 2023 (UTC) |
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::No, I do not know anything. Perhaps she decided to do something less stressful than editing here. ] (]) 03:19, 4 January 2023 (UTC) |
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:::I saw this on my watchlist: Mass message log "21:44, 4 February 2023 Delivery of "''The Signpost'': 4 February 2023" to User talk:Iryna Harpy was skipped because the target has opted-out of message delivery". ] (]) 22:44, 4 February 2023 (UTC) |
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::::{{u|JimRenge}}, unfortunately I don't think that's due to Iryna's actions but rather by {{u|Heavy Water}}, which added this page to ] and ]. ] (]) 22:56, 4 February 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::@]: Sorry, I noticed she had not edited since then and tagged the page, not realizing these implications. I can self-revert. ] (]) 23:58, 4 February 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::I don't think that's necessary, {{u|Heavy Water}}. I wasn't criticising you, just noting that while it might have looked like Iryna had been active here, this isn't a sign of that. ] (]) 12:29, 5 February 2023 (UTC) |
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== ''The Signpost'': 1 January 2023 == |
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] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> ] (]) 20:27, 18 March 2017 (UTC) |
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== March 2017 == |
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] Hello, I'm ]. I wanted to let you know that one or more of ] to ] have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the ]. If you think a mistake was made, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on ]. <!-- Template:uw-vandalism1 --> ] ] 22:03, 18 March 2017 (UTC) |
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*Did you even read the whole diff? ] ] 22:03, 18 March 2017 (UTC) |
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::{{re|L3X1}} Have you read ]? Have you bothered to check anything (particularly the references used for the content = predominantly ]) ... and you're accusing me of sloppy use of rollback at the ANI? --] (]) 22:30, 18 March 2017 (UTC) |
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:::Yes I've read and am familiar with DNTTR. Thats why I wrote down below the template. Did you check to see if your revert would leave the article in a better state than before, rather than just rollback all three edits? I don't care about the 3 edits made by the other fellow. I care that you didn't notice that your reversion now leaves the article with many misspellings and other errors. ] ] 22:32, 18 March 2017 (UTC) |
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::::Which I will get to if I don't keep getting pinged every two seconds. The content has stood in its current state for ages. A couple of spelling errors and awkward grammar should not be usurped by POV and UNDUE development. New content must be up to par and reliably sourced. You may have a different outlook because your main role here is anti-vandalism, but I focus on the development of content from an NPOV and well sourced stance. To my way of thinking, you have your priorities wrong... but our personal opinions on minor spelling error is neither here nor there. I'm about to revert you reintroduction of POV and badly sourced content, then fix the handful of outstanding lowercase uses of Euromaidan and spelling errors. --] (]) 22:43, 18 March 2017 (UTC) |
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:::::Cheers, {{u|L3X1}}. It wasn't my intention to be gruff with you, so I hope you're not offended. Thanks for pulling me up on the fact that the article could do with a good copyedit. I've made a start, but might not have time to do more for a couple of days. Nice to meet you, and keep up your good work! It takes all kinds of editors to make Misplaced Pages work... and work in a collegial manner. --] (]) 22:56, 18 March 2017 (UTC) |
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:::::::Thank you too, I now see I went about it in the wrong manner to begin with. It was to have met you too. Happy editing! ] ] 22:59, 18 March 2017 (UTC) |
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<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2023-01-01}} </div><!--Volume 19, Issue 1--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 03:45, 1 January 2023 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div> |
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== Unsourced tag == |
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== ''The Signpost'': 16 January 2023 == |
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Hi there, I wanted to touch base about the question of unsourced BLPs as I've been working through the (daunting!) ]. A critical function of the unsourced BLP cleanup tag is that it indicates which BLPs are eligible for the special BLP deletion process, ]. I don't know how much, if at all, you use BLPPROD and it's a legit complicated process (which I ] the first time I tried to use it, despite reading the directions repeatedly!), but in short, a BLP is only considered unreferenced and a candidate for BLPPROD if it has zero references of any kind, good or bad. So if you could please tag BLPs that have any source at all as needing more sources (or more reliable sources, or sources independent of the subject, etc. as applicable) rather than tagging them as unreferenced, unless there's truly no reference whatsoever, that'd be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much. ] (]) 04:39, 20 March 2017 (UTC) |
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<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2023-01-16}} </div><!--Volume 19, Issue 2--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 02:13, 16 January 2023 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div> |
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How can you say my edit was not constructive? If Armenia is not geographically apart of Europe and historically has no connections with Europe other than in political aspects (since 1920), how can you call Armenians "European-Americans"? That literally makes zero sense. |
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Have any page watchers heard from Iryna? I've been thinking for a while that it's been a while since I saw her name appear on my watchlist, and when I checked how long it had been today, it's actually longer than I thought. I know that she'd been unwell for some time. I just tried e-mailing her but the message bounced. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:04, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
