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| == Diplomatic immunity as a member of the Palestinian Parliament== | |||
| == capture or arrest?== | |||
| This part does not make sense, a country may choose to give diplomatic immunity to someone, generally its only for foreign affairs although not always but I can find no record that Israel has ever agreed to give diplomatic immunity in relation to the Palestinian Parliament furthermore other members of the Palestinian Parliament have been arrested and no-one brought this up. What it is, is he may have diplomatic immunity from arrest and prosecution from the PA. | |||
| "Arrest" is the israeli line. However, Marwan Barghouti was CAPTURED in ramalla. Israel has no right of arrest within the Occupied territories. It's like saying the New York Police Department "arrested" a russian member of parliament in MOSCOW. | |||
| ] (]) | |||
| Actually he was not arrested in Israel, a fact being nonsensical on its own right. ] (]) 12:38, 28 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| If I was like you zionists, I would change it to "kidnap". Whenever someone captures an israeli soldier you zionists call it "kidnap" right? So it's only fair this is called a "kidnapping". However, I know it should stay as "captured" because I, unlike you, have some objectivity. | |||
| == Replacing Dead Links == | |||
| ] 15:46, 29 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :You need to learn some international law. As the occupying power in the territories, Israel has not only a right, but an obligation, to maintain civil order through police functions. It arrested Barghouti, as the cited source (the BBC, no less) says. ] 17:52, 29 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
| I noticed a couple of the footnotes now redirect to a landing page. Would it be possible to replace them with Archive.org links? I don't have enough edits to do it myself but here are working links: | |||
| ::And under the same international law, the occupied people have the right to resist the "occupying power". At least that's the excuse my uncle Hector gave when he was caught drawing mustaches on portraits of ]... ] <sup><small><font color="DarkBlue">]</font></small></sup> 19:16, 29 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :::Indeed they do, but not by attacking civilians, which is what Barghouti was arrested for, charged with, tried for, and convicted of. He is a common criminal, arrested by law enforcement agencies, tried by a civilian court for murder, and serving his life sentence for that crime. ] 23:13, 29 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Footnote 23 (The indictment) | |||
| :: it is an illegal occupation. thus capture not arrest... anyway the PLO policed that area at the time... ] 23:59, 29 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::: You are welcome to your POV, but international law holds a different opinion. Regardless, the 4th Geneva convention, which governs the occupying power's rights and obligations has no concept of an "illegal occupation" - it is a propaganda term invented by pro-Palestinian partisans. The PLO has no policing powers. Perhasp you man the Palestinian Authority. ] 00:06, 30 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Retrieved August 29, 2004 | |||
| :::: ] 01:07, 30 August 2006 (UTC) says: the PA has policing powers in the Occupied Territories. And "illegal occupation" is not a propaganda term. UN resolution (cant remember the number now) calls for israel to withdraw from all land gained in the 67 war. Thus illegal. | |||
| :::::The UNSCR resolution you are reffering to calls for Israel to withdraw for territories it captured (not "all, as you mistakingly wrote) ''in conjunction'' with the end of hostilities and the recognition of Israel's secure borders (i.e, a peace agreement) by its neighbors. This does not make the occupation illegal, and that term is not used in the resolution. Regardless, as I pointed out to you, the 4GC has no such concept, making this entire debate moot. ] 03:24, 30 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
| <nowiki>https://web.archive.org/web/20040829072946/http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2002/12/State%20of%20Israel%20vs%20Marwan%20Barghouti-%20Ruling%20by%20Jud</nowiki> | |||
| :::: the PA is meant to control the occupied territories, it's in Oslo. I personally think Oslo was a pile of crap. But, that is not relevant. Oslo was signed by both parties. Why did israel always ask the palestinian authority to "clamp down on militants"? Why are their palestinian police? Because they police the West Bank, Gaza... and the rest. Hence "captured". | |||
| :::::The fact that the PA has policing powers does not mean Israel does not have the same. The PA's authority stems from Oslo, Israel's from it's status as an occupying power. The occupying power may request assitance form local police, but that does not negate its own authority. ] 03:24, 30 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Source 24 (Indictment Appendix | |||
| :: I'm sure it is "capture" however, I added a little piece as a comprimise (I let it stay as "arrest") that any reasonable person would accept ] 04:36, 30 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
| Retrieved July 5, 2004 | |||
| ==Birthday== | |||
| *I have seen several different birth dates (ranging from 1958 to 1960 and different days on those years, June 5, June 8, etc). What is the practice in this situation? ] 05:01, 22 May 2004 (UTC) | |||
| **Seems to me we can try listing out links which support each different date and decide based on that. ] 22:01, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC) | |||
| ***June 6, 1959 | |||
| ***#CNN | |||
| ***#Washington Times | |||
| ***1959 (year only) | |||
| ***#Al Jazeerah | |||
| <nowiki>https://web.archive.org/web/20040705015004/http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2002/8/Marwan%20Barghouti%20Indictment%20-%20Appendix-%20Terrorist</nowiki> | |||
| *Ha, it seems one of his brothers name is ], any one know how many brothers and sisters he has? | |||
| ] (]) 00:18, 19 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
| He's only allegedly "guilty" because he's innocent until proven guilty in a legitimate court of law. That does not include a Jewish kangaroo-court Sanhedrin, which only needed Caiaphas to be complete. | |||
| == Citations section is VERY broken == | |||
| :This is anti-Semitic crap | |||
| :: ] 15:40, 29 August 2006 (UTC) says: the old slur of anti-semitism. If israel committed genocide of all the palestinians then you guys would still say it was anti semitic to criticise. | |||
| Lua error in Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration at line 2058: attempt to index a boolean value. | |||
| ==My comments== | |||
| is the error in just about every single citation. ] (]) 01:11, 11 July 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :I'm not seeing this—seems to be resolved now. ] (<i>] • ] • ]</i>) 22:06, 9 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
| I should probably explain why I reverted this article yesterday, and why I've added a sentence now. | |||
| The article currently reads, "He is currently serving five life sentences in an Israeli jail for murder and attempted murder." This statement is both accurate and NPOV. The phrase "Murder and attempted murder" refers to a legal conviction -- it makes no comment on the accuracy of the charges, nor on the validity of the legal process under which the trial occurred. | |||
| The word "allegedly" is pretty obviously POV in this context; it needed to be removed, as such. | |||
| That said, it is also my position that the article's introduction should make reference to the controversial nature of Barghouti's prison sentence. To this end, I have added the statement "Barghouti's supporters believe that these charges were politically motivated, and consider him a ]". This statement, like the one before it, is NPOV -- it makes no comment on the accuracy of these claims, and merely notes that they have been raised in the field of public discourse. | |||
| If anyone believes this to be flawed logic, I'm willing to entertain objections. ] 22:39, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC) | |||
| : I don't doubt the NPOV, but perhaps something along the lines of "jailed by an Israeli court" rather than serving "in an Israeli jail" might show this more objectively. - ] 23:47, 20 February 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ::Aren't convictions always controversial, at least by the standards of the convicted persons if they claim to be innocent? ] 01:29, 21 February 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :: Of course his supporters deny everything. No Palestinian ever did anything. But I respect your NPOV dedication, but you left out the number of dead. I believe it was 28. ] 06:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :: supporters means fellow terrorists and I don't think one should take it too seriously. I've addred the Israeli claim which was backed by public evidence. ] | |||
| ::: Do you have any evidence that "supporters means fellow terrorists"? The government of Israel's claims can be referenced in the main body of the article, but it doesn't belong in the intro. ] 06:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
| ===Second intifada=== | |||
| The bit about him discerning military and civilian target is interesting but is there a source for this? | |||
| :::: indeed. that should be referenced or deleted... | |||
| =="Campaign to Free Marwan Barghouti"== | |||
| the immunity claim is false in international law. Palestine is not a country and the members of their parliament don't have any immunity what-so-ever according to the relevant convenants in question. ] 23:15, 19 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
| :: yeh thats the problem, zionist denial of palestinian right of self determination ] | |||
| == WikiProject class rating== | |||
| This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. ] 23:34, 27 August 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == "Palestine" == | |||
| Since wikipedia is neutral shouldn't this article be under Israel <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 00:12, 23 October 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| == What prison? == | |||
| Is there an information? ] (]) 14:31, 18 April 2012 (UTC) | |||
| == honestreporting == | |||
| See ]. This is an unsuitable source. Disregarding the 1RR violation, it should be removed for that reason alone. This is still, last I checked, a BLP. In fact, the sourcing for "Palestinian Mandela" could be improved on, citing (thanks honestreporting ;)), could also use that for "while many Israelis consider him a murderer". But honestreporting cannot be used. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 18:49, 8 July 2012 (UTC)</small> | |||
| :<s>] is an unsuitable, partial, bias and unreliable source for many people (come on! he's just an anti-Zionist/pro-Palestinian activist, representing a tiny minority among Israelis) like Honest Reporting is unsuitable for you. Besides, Honest Reporting is not the only organization who doesn't consider Barghouti a "Palestinian Mandela" (for example read what thinks, an Israeli organization for victims of terror). If Honest Reporting is removed, then Uri Avnery should be removed as well.--] (]) 19:03, 8 July 2012 (UTC)</s> | |||
| ::If you would like to argue that Uri Avnery should not be cited then make that argument. Do not however add continue adding unreliable sources to biographies of living people, as you did . <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 12:27, 9 July 2012 (UTC)</small> | |||
| :::Why is Avnery's view notable enough to be included in the lead or in the article at all? <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']'''.''']'''</small> 13:52, 9 July 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Whether or not Avnery should be included is immaterial, as it is much more than Avnery that has called Barghouti a Palestinian Mandela. I've added a more general line, sourced to and . I trust that ends the dispute. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 18:30, 9 July 2012 (UTC)</small> | |||
| == Source misrepresentation == | |||
| In edit, Nableezy adds source to substantiate his addition to the lead that, "He has been called "the Palestinian Mandela", in reference to anti-Apartheid leader Nelson Mandela." | |||
| The full sentence of the source reads as follows: "To judge by the same poll, only 28 per cent of Israelis want to see the prison doors swing open for the man some praise as "the Palestinian Mandela" '''but whom others call a murderer.'''" | |||
| Nableezy elided the last part of this sentence which also describes what ''"he has been called"'' and selectively included a single view, contrary to NPOV. Please explain. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']'''.''']'''</small> 19:30, 9 July 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :Look at the paragraph directly below the sentence in the lead. And please do not make such asinine accusations again in the future. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 19:36, 9 July 2012 (UTC)</small> | |||
| ::Why did you select to add this view to the first paragraph, the logical formatting would be to group the views together?<small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']'''.''']'''</small> 19:54, 9 July 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :::Because that is where it was in the past? <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 19:57, 9 July 2012 (UTC)</small> | |||
| == Diplomatic immunity as a member of the Palestinian Parliament== | |||
| This part does not make sense, a country may choose to give diplomatic immunity to someone, generally its only for foreign affairs although not always but I can find no record that Israel has ever agreed to give diplomatic immunity in relation to the Palestinian Parliament furthermore other members of the Palestinian Parliament have been arrested and no-one brought this up. What it is, is he may have diplomatic immunity from arrest and prosecution from the PA. | |||
| ] (]) | |||
| == Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 August 2024 == | |||
| == Comparison of Barghouti to Mandela in the lead == | |||
| {{Edit extended-protected|Marwan Barghouti|answered=yes}} | |||
| I remove this unencyclopedic sentence from the lead. "He has been called by some 'the Palestinian Mandela'." | |||
| Remove the additional "had" from this: "a petition that had had been rejected". ] (]) 18:43, 9 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :{{done}}<!-- Template:EEp --> ] (<i>] • ] • ]</i>) 22:06, 9 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ==updated pool== | |||
| This sentence has several problems. The sentence is fails ] because it represents a value judgement and only shows one side. The sentence's use of analogy is not very encyclopedic, and it does not mention who "some" is. The word "some" is considered ]. However, in this sentence there is no way do get around using a weasel word, because clearly not all people have this view of him. It would be better to stick to verifiable facts about Barghouti, rather than reporting nebulous statements about popular opinion. ] (]) 21:31, 16 April 2017 (UTC) | |||
| It would be appreciated if someone will add info on the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research pool from march 2024, which says if there were palestinian elections today Bargouthi would win, with 40 precent support compared to 23 precent for Hamas and 8 precent for Abbas. . ] (]) 00:49, 30 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
| : is the oriinal pool published by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research ] (]) 08:04, 30 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 07:25, 12 November 2024
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Diplomatic immunity as a member of the Palestinian Parliament
This part does not make sense, a country may choose to give diplomatic immunity to someone, generally its only for foreign affairs although not always but I can find no record that Israel has ever agreed to give diplomatic immunity in relation to the Palestinian Parliament furthermore other members of the Palestinian Parliament have been arrested and no-one brought this up. What it is, is he may have diplomatic immunity from arrest and prosecution from the PA. BernardZ (talk)
Actually he was not arrested in Israel, a fact being nonsensical on its own right. peyerk (talk) 12:38, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
Replacing Dead Links
I noticed a couple of the footnotes now redirect to a landing page. Would it be possible to replace them with Archive.org links? I don't have enough edits to do it myself but here are working links:
Footnote 23 (The indictment)
Retrieved August 29, 2004
https://web.archive.org/web/20040829072946/http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2002/12/State%20of%20Israel%20vs%20Marwan%20Barghouti-%20Ruling%20by%20Jud
Source 24 (Indictment Appendix
Retrieved July 5, 2004
https://web.archive.org/web/20040705015004/http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2002/8/Marwan%20Barghouti%20Indictment%20-%20Appendix-%20Terrorist
Hamster Drink (talk) 00:18, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Citations section is VERY broken
Lua error in Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration at line 2058: attempt to index a boolean value.
is the error in just about every single citation. 24.4.132.42 (talk) 01:11, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing this—seems to be resolved now. Bsoyka (t • c • g) 22:06, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 August 2024
 | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove the additional "had" from this: "a petition that had had been rejected". 173.33.160.204 (talk) 18:43, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
Done Bsoyka (t • c • g) 22:06, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
updated pool
It would be appreciated if someone will add info on the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research pool from march 2024, which says if there were palestinian elections today Bargouthi would win, with 40 precent support compared to 23 precent for Hamas and 8 precent for Abbas. Hebrew languagye source here. Shimon.tre (talk) 00:49, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
- this is the oriinal pool published by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research Shimon.tre (talk) 08:04, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
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