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Revision as of 15:29, 28 April 2017 editSenor Freebie (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users1,516 edits You really need to have a think about NPOV, when it comes to your interpretation of the source material you're citing.← Previous edit Latest revision as of 18:57, 14 October 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,293,709 editsm Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:Radiation effects from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster/Archive 1) (bot 
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==Move discussion in progress==
There is a move discussion in progress on ] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster crosspost --> —] 16:16, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

==A question of balance==
It seems that Chernobyl is mentioned 36 times in this article, which is surprising given that we already have the ]. I notice that radiation experts ] and Ian Fairlie, who have written much on Fukushima are not mentioned at all. This leaves the article rather skewed and unbalanced. ] (]) 05:55, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

== Date Consistency ==

While reading this article, I became confused on dating. There are a number of passages where a month by month progression is entered, and the entry is a day/month progression, but no year. The sections often have multiple sequences like this and they do not reference the year. There are more than a few locations where the timeline jumps from 2011 to 2012, then back to 2011 without providing any sense of timeline that is accurate. I know it would be best to provide specific examples, at this time I cannot, but I will attempt to update the sections that need revision soon. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 20:19, 25 February 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Yes, there really is no reason not to include the year in every date reference, which is also encouraged by the manual of style at ]. Just be sure to add the ''correct'' year; you recently changed a 2011 to 2012 inaccurately. ] (]) 22:56, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

== Extraneous "citation needed" tag ==

{{reply|Senor Freebie}} re , a citation ''has'' been provided, . Putting the same ref at the end of both sentences is not editorially favorable. Your edit summary appears to express your ], which of course is wholly irrelevant. Can you better articulate a policy-based reason for the tag? ] (]) 00:46, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
:On second thought, we can probably handle a duplicate callout. I added a second source, , as well. ] (]) 04:06, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
::The source that you added contradicted the un-scientific, un-encyclopedic information you appear to be intent on including in this article. Please discuss this in good faith, and in detail, before proceeding unilaterally. I have trimmed a large amount of baseless and unsourced information, and it's clear that there has been an attempt at providing misinformation here. It's concerning that instead of doing the same, and attempting to improve the accuracy of the article, you have instead insisted that this material is supported.--] (]) 07:50, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
:::From 2nd the source provided: "Although radiation may cause cancer at high doses and high dose rates, public health data do not absolutely establish the occurrence of cancer following exposure to low doses and dose rates — below about 10,000 mrem (100 mSv)." You need to get consensus for these removals prior to blanking; your proposed removal has been contested. ] (]) 08:15, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

== WTF ==
¿Qué coño significa esto? 600 suviets every hour? They cannot even send the robots to take pictures? Even Flexpart stopped to show out data? Please, wise wikieditors of this article, check out this and go deeper than I am able to:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/feb/03/fukushima-daiichi-radiation-levels-highest-since-2011-meltdown
Gracias and best regards. ] (]) 02:09, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
:Yes, ~600 Sv/hr has been estimated. That is inside the containment vessel, underneath the pressure vessel near where the fuel melted through. ] (]) 04:24, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
:Actual readings are only ~210 Sv/hr inside Unit 2's containment vessel.<ref name="ng-scorpion-210sv">{{cite web|last1=Beser|first1=Ari|title=After Alarmingly High Radiation Levels Detected, What Are the Facts in Fukushima?|url=http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2017/02/22/after-alarmingly-high-radiation-levels-detected-what-are-the-facts-in-fukushima/|website=National Geographic Society (blogs)|publisher=National Geographic Society|accessdate=9 April 2017|date=22 February 2017}}</ref> The initial ~600 Sv/hr readings were calculated very roughly based on corruption from radiation in photographs, the later reading is from an actual proper detection instrument sent into the same area. ] (]) 02:03, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}


== This article is filled with unsourced, and utterly ridiculous propaganda. == == This article is filled with unsourced, and utterly ridiculous propaganda. ==
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::That is a personal attack. Apologise and retract immediately.--] (]) 09:16, 26 April 2017 (UTC) ::That is a personal attack. Apologise and retract immediately.--] (]) 09:16, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

:: 25 April 2017 right out of the gate you expend considerable effort in using loaded language like "unsourced, and utterly ridiculous propaganda" " astoundingly and blatantly false" "attempting to imply that all increases in thyroid cancer are attributable to stress" , SEO in your own words "That is a personal attack. Apologise and retract immediately" to VQuakr & everyone else playing nice with you & PS: i normaly do not edit , but i do trace, ] (]) 21:49, 21 May 2017 (UTC)


Flailing about and screaming Propaganda! Doesn't make that more ok.] (]) 08:25, 25 April 2017 (UTC) Flailing about and screaming Propaganda! Doesn't make that more ok.] (]) 08:25, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
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:::::That's a circular reference. They are referring to the dead link, and since that is cited here, it's quite likely it's due to this article, not the actual content.--] (]) 15:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC) :::::That's a circular reference. They are referring to the dead link, and since that is cited here, it's quite likely it's due to this article, not the actual content.--] (]) 15:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

::::::Prove your unsupported assertion that the NBC news article used Misplaced Pages directly or indirectly as a source for that content, and I will agree that it cannot be used per ]. I note that the NBC article is dated Sept 10 2013; is the revision of our article as of Sept 18 2013. ] (]) 02:48, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

:::::::They link to the Japanese source in their article, and cite it as the source for their information. It's genuinely troubling that after your behaviour towards a fellow editor, you are asking for proof of a circular link that YOU provided, that is so blatantly obvious.--] (]) 15:24, 29 April 2017 (UTC)


:::The citation needed tag, with the following text; ''"Life expectancy dropped across the entire former Soviet Union, not just at Chernobyl."'' that you removed without discussion refers to information found in an interview, where someone is giving their opinion, and is therefore not encyclopedic. Unless you can find a better source for this information, which directly attributes that drop in life expectancy to the disaster, that segment is getting removed too.--] (]) 09:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC) :::The citation needed tag, with the following text; ''"Life expectancy dropped across the entire former Soviet Union, not just at Chernobyl."'' that you removed without discussion refers to information found in an interview, where someone is giving their opinion, and is therefore not encyclopedic. Unless you can find a better source for this information, which directly attributes that drop in life expectancy to the disaster, that segment is getting removed too.--] (]) 09:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
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::::If ''Nature'' and the NRC aren't adequate sources for this information, what possibly is? ] (]) 20:21, 26 April 2017 (UTC) ::::If ''Nature'' and the NRC aren't adequate sources for this information, what possibly is? ] (]) 20:21, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
:::::The issue I have here is not the quality of the sources. It is the content of the Misplaced Pages article. It simply draws conclusions that are not in the articles. That you are still pushing those conclusions, even while quoting the sourced material is troubling.--] (]) 15:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC) :::::The issue I have here is not the quality of the sources. It is the content of the Misplaced Pages article. It simply draws conclusions that are not in the articles. That you are still pushing those conclusions, even while quoting the sourced material is troubling.--] (]) 15:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
::::::What ''specific'' conclusions in the article were not drawn by the sources provided? You have made a few claims precise enough to respond to specifically, and I have done so using direct quotes from the existing sources that you have repeatedly and inaccurately claimed do not contain that very information. ] (]) 02:42, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

:::::::Your failure in comprehension, here, and in my warnings against edit warrings are not my responsibility. It honestly appears as if you are feigning confusion, in order to contravene Misplaced Pages rules.--] (]) 15:38, 29 April 2017 (UTC)


:::The paragraph that begins with; ''"Experts on the ground in Japan agree that mental health challenges are the most significant issue."'' Which experts? The source never once uses terms like these, and this clearly reflects an attempt to include someone's subjective opinion. This segment needs a rewrite to reflect the actual source material, and should not be included until this is done.--] (]) 09:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC) :::The paragraph that begins with; ''"Experts on the ground in Japan agree that mental health challenges are the most significant issue."'' Which experts? The source never once uses terms like these, and this clearly reflects an attempt to include someone's subjective opinion. This segment needs a rewrite to reflect the actual source material, and should not be included until this is done.--] (]) 09:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
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:::::You really like using the word false don't you? :::::You really like using the word false don't you?
:::::The context in which that quote is made is not clear in the article. The Misplaced Pages page again draws conclusions that are simply not in the source material. Again, I think it's worth noting that you are pushing those conclusions.--] (]) 15:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC) :::::The context in which that quote is made is not clear in the article. The Misplaced Pages page again draws conclusions that are simply not in the source material. Again, I think it's worth noting that you are pushing those conclusions.--] (]) 15:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

::::::Typical of all of these, you are making no attempt to explain ''why'' you find the cited content above unsuitable. You keep claiming it isn't verifiable, but that has been demonstrated, with quotes from the source, to be untrue. ] (]) 18:27, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

:::::::I explained it in plain English. The source material simply does not align with the assertions made in the wiki article. If you disagree, please explain why, while referencing the ACTUAL sourced content.--] (]) 12:35, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

::::::::I have already replied with quotes, repeatedly, that refute every claim you have made that is specific enough to refute. These quotes are verifiably in the sources provided, so I am not sure what else could possibly be considered better "ACTUAL sourced content" than what I have already provided. ] (]) 18:43, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::That's a lie. You have argued tooth and nail that I am not being specific, where I am, and you have not engaged in discussion, while undoing huge amounts of content that you're utterly unwilling to discuss.--] (]) 03:18, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
::::::::::You '''aren't''' being specific (enough). I have replied to every specific complaint you have raised, with quotes from the sources that you keep removing from the article. It seems strange that you would say I am not engaging in discussion at the bottom of a ~15kB thread. ] (]) 03:41, 15 May 2017 (UTC)


:::''"The relationship between mental health disorders—such as anxiety and depression—and thyroid disorders is well known in the medical community."'' This segment is utterly irrelevant and clearly conjecture.--] (]) 09:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC) :::''"The relationship between mental health disorders—such as anxiety and depression—and thyroid disorders is well known in the medical community."'' This segment is utterly irrelevant and clearly conjecture.--] (]) 09:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
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:::::The link that is being made here is the conjecture. I restored it in error.--] (]) 15:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC) :::::The link that is being made here is the conjecture. I restored it in error.--] (]) 15:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

::::::Ok, we are agreed on this one. Progress. ] (]) 18:27, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
:::::::Please cease your unilateral edit war immediately, and apologise for your previous personal attacks. I have other commitments in real life. This content should not be included in the article until the obvious, major problems with it are discussed in detail. The article was already flagged as in breach of NPOV, and rambling, and you seem to be fighting against improving it, tooth and nail, while being utterly uncivil to other editors attempting to help.--] (]) 15:16, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
::::::::This thread has become rather rambling as it attempted to address several proposed removals at once. I am going to start separate sections for each, as it seems unfair to expect anyone uninvolved to tackle this as written. ] (]) 00:38, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::Agreed. Will continue under sub-headings from now on.--] (]) 07:40, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

== Proposed removal - Health effects ==

Proposed markup to be removed:
{{collapse top|''Status quo'' text}}
<nowiki>According to the Japanese Government, 180,592 people in the general population were screened in March 2011 for radiation exposure and no case was found which affects health.<ref name="Seismic Damage Information (the 127th Release)"/> Thirty workers conducting operations at the plant had exposure levels greater than 100 mSv.<ref name="Seismic Damage Information (the 110th Release)"/> It is believed that the health effects of the radioactivity release are primarily psychological rather than physical effects. Even in the most severely affected areas, radiation doses never reached more than a quarter of the radiation dose linked to an increase in cancer risk (25 mSv whereas 100 mSv has been linked to an increase in cancer rates among victims at Hiroshima and Nagasaki).<ref name="Fukushima: Fallout of fear"/><ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.nrc.gov/about-nrc/radiation/health-effects/rad-exposure-cancer.html |title=Radiation Exposure and Cancer |date=29 March 2012 |website=] |accessdate=18 April 2017}}</ref> However, people who have been evacuated have suffered from depression and other mental health effects.<ref name="Fukushima: Fallout of fear"/>
...
] Roy Shore contends that estimating health effects in a population from the LNT model "is not wise because of the uncertainties".<ref name="Science 2011"/> The LNT model did not accurately model casualties from Chernobyl, Hiroshima or Nagasaki; it greatly overestimated the casualties. Evidence that the LNT model is a gross distortion of damage from radiation has existed since 1946, and was suppressed by Nobel Prize winner ] in favour of assertions that no amount of radiation is safe.<ref name="UMass researcher points to suppression of evidence on radiation effects by 1946 Nobel Laureate"/><ref name="Muller's Nobel lecture on dose–response for ionizing radiation: Ideology or science?"/><ref name="ClinicalOncologyChildren"/>
</nowiki>
{{hab}}

Senor Freebie, can you explain the reasoning for your proposed removal of this content? It seems relevant and well-sourced to me. The last two sentences are a bit of a digression though; do you think excising that part would resolve your concern? ] (]) 00:58, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

:wait senon freebie claimed that a link to Radiation Exposure and Cancer 2008/05/06 , nrc gov was contradictory to the science of radiation health effects?!! really? ] (]) 21:55, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

::Waptek; the issue is how the information from the source is applied in the article. It's clearly a misrepresentation of the science. Especially considering the long winded segments throughout this article on the LNT. In fact when I first came here, the subject of Fukushima seemed somewhat secondary to soapboaxing about the LNT.--] (]) 04:03, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

== Proposed removal - Psychological effects of perceived radiation exposure ==
Proposed markup to be removed:
{{collapse top|''Status quo'' text}}
<nowiki>Experts on the ground in Japan agree that mental health challenges are the most significant issue. Stress, such as that caused by dislocation, uncertainty and concern about unseen toxicants, often manifests in physical ailments, such as heart disease. So even if radiation risks are low, people are still concerned and worried. Behavioral changes can follow, including poor dietary choices, lack of exercise and sleep deprivation, all of which can have long-term negative health consequences. People who lost their homes, villages and family members, and even just those who survived the quake, will likely continue to face mental health challenges and the physical ailments that come with stress. Much of the damage was really the psychological stress of not knowing and of being relocated, according to U.C. Berkeley's McKone.<ref name="Japan's Post-Fukushima Earthquake Health Woes Go Beyond Radiation Effects"/></nowiki>
{{hab}}

Senor Freebie, that paragraph is sourced to '']'', . I think there is improvement to be made to the paragraph, particularly with attribution in Misplaced Pages's vs the source's voice. Do you agree, or do you still think the section should be completely removed? If the latter, why? ] (]) 00:58, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

:After your threats, to ban me from editing, I decided not to continue attempting to edit this article, that you so clearly want to control.--] (]) 03:59, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

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Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 19:13, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

== Very long ==

This article is ] to read and navigate comfortably. When the tag was added, its ] was 20,762 words. Consider ] content into sub-article or ] it. The article size impacts usability in multiple ways: Reader issues, such as ], readability, organization, information saturation, etc. (when articles are large). Total article size should be kept reasonably low, particularly for readers using slow internet connections or mobile devices or who have slow computer loading. Some large articles exist for topics that require depth and detail, but typically articles of such size are ] into two or more smaller articles.{{pb}}
{| class="wikitable" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="4" style="background:none;"
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! Word count
! scope="col" | What to do
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|style="background: #ffffcc; text-align:center;"|'''this article{{hr}} 20,762 words''' ||style="background: #ffffcc;"|Definitely should be divided or trimmed
|-
| >&nbsp;15,000&nbsp;words || Almost certainly should be divided or trimmed.
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| > 9,000 words || Probably should be divided or trimmed.
|}
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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Fukushima I nuclear accidents was copied or moved into Radiation effects from Fukushima I nuclear accidents with this edit on 19:35, 23 March 2011. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.


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This article is filled with unsourced, and utterly ridiculous propaganda.

I have done my best to verify the information in it, but the claims are just astoundingly and blatantly false. 1,600 dead from evacuation, and 1,599 dead from the earthquake, with no corresponding source to back those numbers up? Authors opining about accepted science, and attempting to imply that all increases in thyroid cancer are attributable to stress, over radiation? I will be watching this article from now on, and I will be doing my best to recommend administrative action against anyone deliberately attempting to manipulate this article in a non-encyclopedic fashion.--Senor Freebie (talk) 07:47, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

WP:AGF, etc. VQuakr (talk) 08:16, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
You are removing cited content because it doesn't fit your understanding of the topic.VQuakr (talk) 08:25, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
That is a personal attack. Apologise and retract immediately.--Senor Freebie (talk) 09:16, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
25 April 2017 right out of the gate you expend considerable effort in using loaded language like "unsourced, and utterly ridiculous propaganda" " astoundingly and blatantly false" "attempting to imply that all increases in thyroid cancer are attributable to stress" , SEO in your own words "That is a personal attack. Apologise and retract immediately" to VQuakr & everyone else playing nice with you & PS: i normaly do not edit , but i do trace, Waptek (talk) 21:49, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Flailing about and screaming Propaganda! Doesn't make that more ok.VQuakr (talk) 08:25, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

That is a personal attack. Apologise and retract immediately.--Senor Freebie (talk) 09:16, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
WP:DRAMA. Your accusations are spurious, particularly from someone who just accused another editor of supporting "propaganda". VQuakr (talk) 16:00, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
Also, what unsourced material are you contesting? So far you have only removed and challenged reliably sourced information. I did remove , which was sourced but tangential. VQuakr (talk) 15:20, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
The information that was removed. I will detail it piece by piece here. As I have already requested that you discuss these, rather than edit warring, only to be ignored, I don't expect that you will act in good faith, but I now believe that I have to do this in order to demonstrate that you have taken ownership of this article.--Senor Freebie (talk) 09:16, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
Presupposing a conclusion is poor grounding for a discussion about article content. VQuakr (talk) 20:21, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
"A survey by the newspaper Mainichi Shimbun computed that there were 1,600 deaths related to the evacuation, comparable to the 1,599 deaths due to the earthquake and tsunami in the Fukushima Prefecture." This line was allegedly supported by a dead link. No other sources confirm similar numbers for deaths due to the evacuation. Given the enormity of this claim, it would need to be supported by multiple sources.--Senor Freebie (talk) 09:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
False, the archive link works fine. Whether the original is (or ever was) online is not relevant; "verifiable" is not synonymous with "available online". A quick check online shows additional sources ie , but why exactly do you find this claim so exceptional? VQuakr (talk) 20:21, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
That's a circular reference. They are referring to the dead link, and since that is cited here, it's quite likely it's due to this article, not the actual content.--Senor Freebie (talk) 15:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Prove your unsupported assertion that the NBC news article used Misplaced Pages directly or indirectly as a source for that content, and I will agree that it cannot be used per WP:CIRCULAR. I note that the NBC article is dated Sept 10 2013; here is the revision of our article as of Sept 18 2013. VQuakr (talk) 02:48, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
They link to the Japanese source in their article, and cite it as the source for their information. It's genuinely troubling that after your behaviour towards a fellow editor, you are asking for proof of a circular link that YOU provided, that is so blatantly obvious.--Senor Freebie (talk) 15:24, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
The citation needed tag, with the following text; "Life expectancy dropped across the entire former Soviet Union, not just at Chernobyl." that you removed without discussion refers to information found in an interview, where someone is giving their opinion, and is therefore not encyclopedic. Unless you can find a better source for this information, which directly attributes that drop in life expectancy to the disaster, that segment is getting removed too.--Senor Freebie (talk) 09:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
The citation needed tag is for unsourced content. The section you mention is sourced; the tag was invalid. We provide a quote, with attribution of the quote. This is how quotes work. Shunichi Yamashita was born in 1952 in Nagasaki and is a recognized expert on radiation, public health, and Chernobyl; he is a stellar source for this information. VQuakr (talk) 20:21, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
The citation needed tag was the links being drawn between the quote, and the paragraph above. He did not explicitly state that the life expectancy of Chernobyl evacuees dropped because of relocation. He seems to imply it, but the paragraph above, makes a giant, uncited leap. "In the former Soviet Union, many patients with negligible radioactive exposure after the Chernobyl disaster displayed extreme anxiety about low level radiation exposure, and therefore developed many psychosomatic problems, including radiophobia, and with this an increase in fatalistic alcoholism being observed."--Senor Freebie (talk) 15:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
The paragraph that begins with; "According to the Japanese Government, 180,592 people in the general population were screened in March 2011 for radiation exposure and no case was found which affects health." includes references that are not verifiable. The line; "It is believed that the health effects of the radioactivity release are primarily psychological rather than physical effects." in particular appears to be entirely conjecture, and the opinion of the editor, rather than encyclopedic and does not align with any of the information from any of the sources cited after it.--Senor Freebie (talk) 09:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
False, that is taken directly from the sources, primarily , which states in the byline, "After the Fukushima nuclear disaster, Japan kept people safe from the physical effects of radiation — but not from the psychological impacts." and later goes on to say, "...the chaotic nature of the evacuation makes it difficult to assess how long and severely each person was exposed. The few attempts made so far, however, have generally shown minimal risk. The health survey’s latest assessment suggests that the dose for nearly all the evacuees was very low, with a maximum of only 25 millisieverts (mSv), well below the 100-mSv exposure that has been linked to an increased risk of cancer..." and "For Fukushima evacuees, says Bromet, 'There’s going to be a tremendous amount of health-related anxiety and it’s not going to go away easily.' Yabe says that “radiophobia” remains a major problem among the Japanese refugees.".
If Nature and the NRC aren't adequate sources for this information, what possibly is? VQuakr (talk) 20:21, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
The issue I have here is not the quality of the sources. It is the content of the Misplaced Pages article. It simply draws conclusions that are not in the articles. That you are still pushing those conclusions, even while quoting the sourced material is troubling.--Senor Freebie (talk) 15:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
What specific conclusions in the article were not drawn by the sources provided? You have made a few claims precise enough to respond to specifically, and I have done so using direct quotes from the existing sources that you have repeatedly and inaccurately claimed do not contain that very information. VQuakr (talk) 02:42, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
Your failure in comprehension, here, and in my warnings against edit warrings are not my responsibility. It honestly appears as if you are feigning confusion, in order to contravene Misplaced Pages rules.--Senor Freebie (talk) 15:38, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
The paragraph that begins with; "Experts on the ground in Japan agree that mental health challenges are the most significant issue." Which experts? The source never once uses terms like these, and this clearly reflects an attempt to include someone's subjective opinion. This segment needs a rewrite to reflect the actual source material, and should not be included until this is done.--Senor Freebie (talk) 09:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
False, this is cited to Scientific American, . "Experts on the ground in Japan agree. 'Mental health is the most significant issue," notes Seiji Yasumura...' VQuakr (talk) 16:00, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
You really like using the word false don't you?
The context in which that quote is made is not clear in the article. The Misplaced Pages page again draws conclusions that are simply not in the source material. Again, I think it's worth noting that you are pushing those conclusions.--Senor Freebie (talk) 15:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Typical of all of these, you are making no attempt to explain why you find the cited content above unsuitable. You keep claiming it isn't verifiable, but that has been demonstrated, with quotes from the source, to be untrue. VQuakr (talk) 18:27, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
I explained it in plain English. The source material simply does not align with the assertions made in the wiki article. If you disagree, please explain why, while referencing the ACTUAL sourced content.--Senor Freebie (talk) 12:35, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
I have already replied with quotes, repeatedly, that refute every claim you have made that is specific enough to refute. These quotes are verifiably in the sources provided, so I am not sure what else could possibly be considered better "ACTUAL sourced content" than what I have already provided. VQuakr (talk) 18:43, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
That's a lie. You have argued tooth and nail that I am not being specific, where I am, and you have not engaged in discussion, while undoing huge amounts of content that you're utterly unwilling to discuss.--Senor Freebie (talk) 03:18, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
You aren't being specific (enough). I have replied to every specific complaint you have raised, with quotes from the sources that you keep removing from the article. It seems strange that you would say I am not engaging in discussion at the bottom of a ~15kB thread. VQuakr (talk) 03:41, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
"The relationship between mental health disorders—such as anxiety and depression—and thyroid disorders is well known in the medical community." This segment is utterly irrelevant and clearly conjecture.--Senor Freebie (talk) 09:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
Not conjecture, but I agree that it is irrelevant. Why did you restore it then? VQuakr (talk) 16:00, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
The link that is being made here is the conjecture. I restored it in error.--Senor Freebie (talk) 15:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Ok, we are agreed on this one. Progress. VQuakr (talk) 18:27, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Please cease your unilateral edit war immediately, and apologise for your previous personal attacks. I have other commitments in real life. This content should not be included in the article until the obvious, major problems with it are discussed in detail. The article was already flagged as in breach of NPOV, and rambling, and you seem to be fighting against improving it, tooth and nail, while being utterly uncivil to other editors attempting to help.--Senor Freebie (talk) 15:16, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
This thread has become rather rambling as it attempted to address several proposed removals at once. I am going to start separate sections for each, as it seems unfair to expect anyone uninvolved to tackle this as written. VQuakr (talk) 00:38, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
Agreed. Will continue under sub-headings from now on.--Senor Freebie (talk) 07:40, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Proposed removal - Health effects

Proposed markup to be removed:

Status quo text

According to the Japanese Government, 180,592 people in the general population were screened in March 2011 for radiation exposure and no case was found which affects health.<ref name="Seismic Damage Information (the 127th Release)"/> Thirty workers conducting operations at the plant had exposure levels greater than 100 mSv.<ref name="Seismic Damage Information (the 110th Release)"/> It is believed that the health effects of the radioactivity release are primarily psychological rather than physical effects. Even in the most severely affected areas, radiation doses never reached more than a quarter of the radiation dose linked to an increase in cancer risk (25 mSv whereas 100 mSv has been linked to an increase in cancer rates among victims at Hiroshima and Nagasaki).<ref name="Fukushima: Fallout of fear"/><ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.nrc.gov/about-nrc/radiation/health-effects/rad-exposure-cancer.html |title=Radiation Exposure and Cancer |date=29 March 2012 |website=] |accessdate=18 April 2017}}</ref> However, people who have been evacuated have suffered from depression and other mental health effects.<ref name="Fukushima: Fallout of fear"/> ... ] Roy Shore contends that estimating health effects in a population from the LNT model "is not wise because of the uncertainties".<ref name="Science 2011"/> The LNT model did not accurately model casualties from Chernobyl, Hiroshima or Nagasaki; it greatly overestimated the casualties. Evidence that the LNT model is a gross distortion of damage from radiation has existed since 1946, and was suppressed by Nobel Prize winner ] in favour of assertions that no amount of radiation is safe.<ref name="UMass researcher points to suppression of evidence on radiation effects by 1946 Nobel Laureate"/><ref name="Muller's Nobel lecture on dose–response for ionizing radiation: Ideology or science?"/><ref name="ClinicalOncologyChildren"/>

Senor Freebie, can you explain the reasoning for your proposed removal of this content? It seems relevant and well-sourced to me. The last two sentences are a bit of a digression though; do you think excising that part would resolve your concern? VQuakr (talk) 00:58, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

wait senon freebie claimed that a link to Radiation Exposure and Cancer 2008/05/06 , nrc gov was contradictory to the science of radiation health effects?!! really? Waptek (talk) 21:55, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
Waptek; the issue is how the information from the source is applied in the article. It's clearly a misrepresentation of the science. Especially considering the long winded segments throughout this article on the LNT. In fact when I first came here, the subject of Fukushima seemed somewhat secondary to soapboaxing about the LNT.--Senor Freebie (talk) 04:03, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Proposed removal - Psychological effects of perceived radiation exposure

Proposed markup to be removed:

Status quo text

Experts on the ground in Japan agree that mental health challenges are the most significant issue. Stress, such as that caused by dislocation, uncertainty and concern about unseen toxicants, often manifests in physical ailments, such as heart disease. So even if radiation risks are low, people are still concerned and worried. Behavioral changes can follow, including poor dietary choices, lack of exercise and sleep deprivation, all of which can have long-term negative health consequences. People who lost their homes, villages and family members, and even just those who survived the quake, will likely continue to face mental health challenges and the physical ailments that come with stress. Much of the damage was really the psychological stress of not knowing and of being relocated, according to U.C. Berkeley's McKone.<ref name="Japan's Post-Fukushima Earthquake Health Woes Go Beyond Radiation Effects"/>

Senor Freebie, that paragraph is sourced to Scientific American, . I think there is improvement to be made to the paragraph, particularly with attribution in Misplaced Pages's vs the source's voice. Do you agree, or do you still think the section should be completely removed? If the latter, why? VQuakr (talk) 00:58, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

After your threats, to ban me from editing, I decided not to continue attempting to edit this article, that you so clearly want to control.--Senor Freebie (talk) 03:59, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

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Very long

This article is too long to read and navigate comfortably. When the tag was added, its readable prose size was 20,762 words. Consider splitting content into sub-article or condensing it. The article size impacts usability in multiple ways: Reader issues, such as attention span, readability, organization, information saturation, etc. (when articles are large). Total article size should be kept reasonably low, particularly for readers using slow internet connections or mobile devices or who have slow computer loading. Some large articles exist for topics that require depth and detail, but typically articles of such size are split into two or more smaller articles.
Word count What to do
this article
20,762 words
Definitely should be divided or trimmed
> 15,000 words Almost certainly should be divided or trimmed.
> 9,000 words Probably should be divided or trimmed.

Isaidnoway (talk) 05:26, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

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