Talk:Shaivism: Difference between revisions

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	== monotheistic faith ...? -suggestion ==
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	Shaivism certainly IS a monotheistic faith. However, even though there are many forms of ], the very widespread judeo-christian culture is familiar with only one. As Shaivism is strongly more of the ] and ] types, perhaps the affirmation of the monotheistic nature of Shaivism should be expanded to avoid misinformation, as Shaivism acknowledges many gods and the ''common'' understanding of monotheism erroneously implies only one god and one manifestation. --] 18:43, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
			]}}

	== ~~from~~ Sh to ~~Ś~~ ==		== Six Schools of Shaivism ==

			To reduce forking I think that ] should be merged into ]. There are more than six schools of Shaivism, and the six schools article is only sourced by one non-reliable source. An overview diagram in Flood (1996), p. 152, can be used as a simple starting point for citations on major schools. I have moved over the only material from that article that I think needs to be kept. Do other editors agree that the six schools article can be redirected to Shaivism? ] 01:47, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
	internal article going from Sh to Ś as voted at the '''village pump'''. As for the title, see below:
	:The link does not link to a discussion ] 09:20, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

			:There has been no discussion on this since I posted it, and as I have moved the useful material from Six Schools of Shaivism to Shaivism, I just put a redirect on Six Schools of Shaivism to go to Shaivism. ] 02:35, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
	==Requested move==
			::{{ping\|Buddhipriya}} I have found a link where information about all 6 MAJOR sub-tradition of Shaivism are given i.e. Śaiva Siddhānta,Pāśupata Śaivism, Vīra Śaivism, Kashmīr Śaivism, siddha siddhanta and Śiva Advaita. We WOULD NOT have do divide the article between Theism and Monism. Citation:https://www.himalayanacademy.com/media/books/dancing-with-siva/web/r1_22.html. If this acceptable then we can re-wite this section] (]) 07:48, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
	] → ] – the proposed name is the official ] transliteration. Sh was used mostly back when English texts did not have the support of such special characters. The problem is, ] already exists, basically with the same text.] <sup>]</sup> 16:07, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
	::''Add '''Support''' or '''Oppose''' followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>''
	* '''Oppose.''' ]s such as these are not usually used in English. ] 09:20, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
	* <s>'''Support'''</s>. This is an encyclopedia, so we go for what is accurate and official, not for what is usually used. Furthermore, people typing Shaivism or Saivism will be redirected to the right place.
	* '''Oppose''' the move; ''Shiva'' and ''Shaivism'' are well accepted in English, and are accurate, in the sense that the English spelling is both phonetic and allows for an easily understood pronunciation. Diacritics aren't necessary to indicate an ''sh'' sound, and will probably just confuse folks unnecessarily. Articles should be merged at ].] 17:31, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
	:, the widest publication on Hinduism and a strong speaker for the Hindu community, uses Ś. --] <sup>]</sup>
	* '''Oppose'''. Use most common name in English. Agree with comments above. ] 14:29, 2005 August 11 (UTC)

			== wonderful work you've done.. ==
	===Vote result===
	In line with the ] guidelines, after 5 days there was no rought consensus to move the page ] 06:57, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

			Since it seems Buddhipriya only works on this page I'll address my concerns in first person.
	===Discussion===
	::''Add any additional comments''
	This article needs a Merged not moved see ] ] 09:20, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

			I'm a relatively New(very) editor here, so i do not wish to get cocky around here..
	* '''Merge''' to Śaivism. --] <big>ॐ</big> 16:27, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
			This article and other works of your are of such a fine quality thatt i should thank(or praise?) you for doing somuch ..
	* '''Merge''' to Śaivism. --] <sup>]</sup> 17:18, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
	* Indeed, the merged article should be at Śaivism. The consistent use of diacritics in foreign names and words, even when alternative English transliterations are available, has become the preferred practice throughout Misplaced Pages (as in Gdańsk, café, Götz von Berlichingen, etc.) ] 19:27, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

			The Following are my concerns and are very minor in nature, but to preserve th Standard of the article kindly consider changing them as well.
	This is not the place to vote on a merge. As the vote for the move is not to move it then one can not bypass that by voting in the discussion section. ] is quite clear, use the most common name in English which is Shaivism not Śaivism. ] 06:17, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

			1,The stark thing one notices is the image of the Sri Re/angam Gopuram, whic technically is a Vaishnavite Temple housing Sri Ranganathar..rather than it, the "Vimaana" of the Thiruvanaikovil should be presented if available..

			2, i don't think Dakshinamurthy can be translated as "on the southern part of an outer perimeter path of the sanctum sanctorum" .
	==Contradiction and clearness==

			But, "Dakshinamurthi" literally translates to the either "the lord facing south" or "Overlord of South", this is simply an anagram as Shiva is Considered to be in Himalaas/kailas, the entire India is in the southern direction relative to Himalayas.
	There are quite a few direct contradictions in this short (relatively) article.

			Also, as interpretted by Sukumari Bhattacharji, in "The Indian Theogony" , "Dakshinamurthy is the one who can manifest & transcend many forms but desists" ..Pg 212 , The Indian Teogony, {{ISBN\|0-14-029570-4}} , Her Reference is from Rig Veda X:72, Slokas 5,6, & 7.
	I.e.: "Saivism had been in conflict with Vaishnavism, another sect of Hinduism, in the past. In spite of several efforts by well-meaning kings and saints, the cold war between the two still continues." vs "The presence of the different schools within Hinduism should not be viewed as a schism. On the contrary, there is no animosity between the schools." War vs no animosity?

			on a practical sense, Dakshinam means descending /death (literally more used to refer death/end/change as Yama's corner is south)
	Despite my education and general intellectual agility, I find this article to be barely comprehensible.

	--] 14:39, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

			Correct me if I'm wrong.
	==Merge==
	As no one else has done the merge since I suggested it a week ago I have done it. I looked through the history of the pages: the contents of the ] page was a cut and past copy of this page (Shaivism) made by ] on 08:00, 7 May 2005. Since that time there have been a few changes to both pages. So I have taken the changes made on the Śaivism page and applied thme to this page. I have made the Śaivism a redirect as it was before the cut and past copy. ] 06:45, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

			] (]) 19:55, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
	== Agastya & Tamil Language ==
	"Agastya, who is said to brought Vedic traditions as well as the Tamil language."
	Agastya brought the Tamil Language to Tamils!!!!. This is the most ridiculous myth i ever heard from the pile of ever so growing fabrication of Indian hisory.

	== ~~Myth~~ ==		==Temples of Shaivism ==
	Yes, the above is a myth and not history.

			Srirangam temple is not a Shiva temple. This is an error. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 20:39, 26 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	== Denominations. ==

			==Fails B criteria==
	Denominations and sects are inappropriate terms for Hinduism, although these terms are commonly used by both academic and traditional scholars. These terms were developed to describe the various manifestations of Christianity, which is viewed, more or less, as a single religion. Hinduism is NOT a single religion. It is a conglomeration of separate religions. Therefore, Shaivism, Vaishnavism, etc, are neither denominations nor sects; they are distinct "Hindu" religions.
			* {{tag}}, {{tl\|expand}} tags added. ] (]) 13:34, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

			==More information regarding beleifs of Saivites?==
	== Denomination of Sects and Religion ==
			Reading this article as somebody who was itnerested in finding more about Saivite beleifs, and their basis, I find that this article does not fully explore this. I am not qualified to make such additions but I have no doubt that others on here are. If you compare it with the Vaisnavism article, you will see what I mean. ] (]) 16:03, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

			:Found a link describing the "cosmology" on . About what Śiva is up to and how the individuals are going about to circumvent karma-mechanics. ... said: ] (]) 08:12, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
	Denomination is only a technical term for Name.
	Does Christianity really own the term “Denomination”?
	Sect is only an abbreviation of Section, and the term is convenient and generally understood.
	Why should the sub-divisions of Hinduism not be regarded as Sects of the Hindu Religion?
	If Christianity is “more or less” a single Religion, then Hinduism is surely comprised of many distinct “Religions”; but all of the Hindu “Religions” form a coherent whole.
	What is the correct term for an organized mass of Religions?
	If Christianity is a Religion, then Hinduism is a “Super Religion”.
	The term “conglomeration” suggests something arbitrary or forced.
	Since Shaivism and Vaishnavism both accept the same Brahman as their One God (albeit under different names), and share the same Vedas as their primary scripture, it seems foolish to insist that Shaivism and Vaishnavism are separate Religions in the common understanding of the word. Indeed, it is dangerously divisive to promote such a marked distinction of what are only traditional sections or “Sects” of just one diverse but fully unified “Religion”.
	Why should Hinduism NOT be regarded as a single Religion?
	And remember that Shaivism actually transcends the distinction of Hindu Dharma and Mahayana Bauddha Dharma.
	] 06:03, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

			:And from experiencefestival.com seems to be a '''heavily''' reworked version of our article, providing lots of pieces that might profitably be used in our one. ... said: ] (]) 07:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
	I have to agree with Sarabhanga and say that both terms, ''denomination'' and ''sect'', are acceptable terms within Hinduism. While the various sects of Hinduism observe many differing beliefs and practices, there are a sufficient number of common, underlying beliefs and factors that certainly make the many religions of Hinduism one in a broader sense. It's helpful to understand the modern term ''Hinduism'' in this broad perspective. See Hinduism Today's concise analysis of the and the . --] 05:18, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

			==moon god cult==
	'Sect,' as used within the discussion of religion, is not an abbreviation of 'section' (Latin secta vs. sectio/secare), and applying both 'sect' and 'denomination' to Hinduism brings a lot of unintentional meaning. For the average English speaker, 'sect' has connotations of dissent and sharing a core belief structure, which may or may not be accurate in the discussion of various groups within Hinduism. Sarabhanga seems to be compensating for a perceived attack of credibility on Hinduism as a Rreligion; the discussion of terminology is not an issue of credibility, but an issue of terminology from other religions connoting unintended meanings.
			moon god is widely considered directly related to hinduism. what is the Hindu view point? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 16:06, 16 May 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	--] 19:12, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

	== ~~Help~~ ~~with~~ ~~Dhuni Article~~ ==		== Shaivism not Shivaism ==
			Introduction referred to '''Shivaism'''. In title and all other parts the term '''Shaivism''' is used. Now corrected. ] (]) 17:58, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
	Hello, I tried by myself to create a ] stub, but don't know much about it. I am not sure if it is Zoroastrian or Hindu as it appears to be practiced throughout India in many faiths. Would someone knowledgable on this subject please help to expand that stub and make needed corrections? Thank you. ] 02:57, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
			:It's not a correction if you delete the name entirely. It's a common term. — ] 03:02, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

			== Merger proposal ==
			{{archive top\|Done. ] -] 05:03, 9 October 2015 (UTC)}}
			Propose to merge ] into ]. The history-section of the Shaivism-article is too short; adding info would double the histpry-article. Both articles are short; merging them would result in a still reasonable lenghty article. And it's handosme to have the info together. ] -] 04:48, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

			* '''Support''' - per above. ] -] 04:48, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
	==Shiva in buddhism?==
			* '''Support''' The merged article should add sections on history of Shaivism in Indonesia, Cambodia and Vietnam. You will find literature spelling it as ''Siwa'' there, and temples as ''Candi''. ] (]) 22:22, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
	text mentiones that some buddhist practice devotion to Shiva. Could someone then explan the role of Shiva in buddhism? Or was it supposed to mean that some buddhists, alongiside practicing buddhism, also practice devotion to Shiva? --] 03:06, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
			::Thanks! ] -] 04:18, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
			{{archive bottom}}

			== History ==
	:I don't know a lot about it, but it seems like the sort of thing that would come up in tantric Buddhism. There is also a certain degree of deva veneration in Buddhism (see ]), but I've never heard Shiva mentioned in that context. Sorry I don't know much about this, but there are a couple ideas to start with, in case you weren't already on top of them.—]<sup>(])</sup> 03:57, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

			The ] article also contains a history-section, which maybe could use some expansion. ] -] 05:06, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
	::I would be really suprised if there was anything Shiva-related in vajrayana. On http://www.himalayanart.org/search/painting_form.cfm?heritageid=1&disciplineid=1 there are only two thangkas of Shiva, from Nepal, categorised as Hindu-deity, in a sea of tantric deities. Most buddhist tantrism has little to do with hindu tantra, and quite a longer history... Youre right, hes mentioned in buddhist cosmology. Im just suprised that there is any custom of deva veneration, but that could be the case, thx for the clue! --] 06:44, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

			==Tarakeshwara==
	I think Ive found an answer to my question - posting here if anyone else found this statement of the article as inprecise as I did: "
			Not sure where it fits into the current setup of the article, but it's worth mentioning the importance of the ] ] tradition at ] where ''anyone'' dying in/near Shiva's temple at ] is supposed to have a mantra whispered into their ear that grants insta]. It's an old tradition and a fairly major source of the city's importance to Shaivism/tourist income. — ] 02:59, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
	Tibetans accept Ganapatti as a wealth deity, and in general, Buddhists are permitted to practice Hindu tantric deities as long as it is understood they are strictly mundane, and that their objects, like Laxsmi, are not proper objects of refuge.

			==Move?==
	It is true that in Buddhism, Shiva is considered to have been liberated by Vajradhara in the form of Cakrasamvara, but it is not permissible for Buddhists to take refuge in Shiva in his form as Shiva.
			This article is probably at the wrong place. Aside from the need to restore "Shivaism" to the lead , . What makes it tricky is the number of sources that give it as Śaivism, which is effectively "Shaivism". — ] 03:05, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

			==Development of Shaivism==
	Further, it is considered in some places that Shiva is a manifestation of Avalokiteshvara, but here one does not take refuge in Shiva directly, since Shiva is the worldly manifestation of Avalokiteshvara." http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=11384&view=findpost&p=152197 --] 22:10, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
			{{ping\|Joshua Jonathan}} {{ping\|Kautilya3}} kindly help develop the ] article. {{u\|Ms Sarah Welch}} is contributing the article, please guys your help is certainly helpful.--] (]) 06:27, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

			==The section on the various sub traditions should be changed==
	== BKWSU ==
			This article divides the various Shaiva traditions between Theism and Monism, which doesn't make sense because many Shaiva traditions are both monistic and theistic. Alexis Sanderson, the top scholar on Shaivism, divides the religion into "Atimarga" and "Mantramarga", each with further divisions. I propose this section be reorganized along the lines set out by the latest scholarship on this matter (as outlined in the works of Sanderson such as "Saivism and the Tantric traditions"). ] (]) 00:03, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

			:Sanderson does present Shaiva streams (strotra) as Atimarga and Mantramarga, per the 1st and early 2nd millennium Indian texts. Does he deny there were theistic/dualistic and non-theistic/monist ideas in Shaivism, if so which page number? Do you have other specific sources in mind, other than this Sanderson's chapter 36 in the Sutherland edited book published by Routledge, and the Saiva Age paper published by the University of Tokyo?
	I am afraid that this might raise controversies, and rightly so, but should here be mention of the ] in this topic on Shiva/Shiavism as hey call their god Shiva as well? Perhaps in the see also category? It is fairly unique for a ] to identify Shiva as God. Thank you. ] 00:34, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
			:I had thought along the lines of what you are suggesting, but then decided otherwise and retained some of the old content of this article. For two reasons: we need to avoid ]; The most NPOV version would avoid taking sides, nor make this article into exclusively Sanderson-pedia (he needs to be cited, and is already highly cited in the article, far more now than ever in this article's history).
			:The best summary would include both the "theism and monism" scholarship, as well as the "atimarga and mantramarga" scholarship. We already mention the latter in "Beliefs and practices" section. But, a bit more atimarga etc summary in the "Sub-traditions" section is planned. This may come by early next week, sooner may be. But if you or someone has something to contribute, by all means add it, save me some effort. ] (]) 05:18, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
			:I added a few sentences to the sub-traditions section for now. More later. ] (]) 06:24, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
			::Good work. As for Sanderson, he is really the best source on this, all other scholars that I have read on this topic (C. Wallis, G. Flood) are working off Sanderson and citing his work. I understand your view of preventing recentism, but Sanderson revolutionized the academic study of Shaivism, and few would disagree that he is the source to work from.
			::Ultimately, the uselessness of the "monism" vs "theism" or dualism distinction is that these sects changed over time. For example, the Shaiva Siddhanta, which is the main dualistic tradition, adopted non-dualism by the 12th century in Tamil Nadu. So placing them under "theism" or "dualism" is just not completely accurate.
			::Of course one could just list traditions without categorizing them into any divisions.
			::I have made some changes, also adding some key traditions that were missing. Let me know what you think. If the Atimarga and Mantramarga division is just too unpalatable for you for some reason, then I suggest just listing the traditions historically without categorizing them back into Theism / Monism. All the best.] (]) 00:08, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

			:::{{ping\|Javierfv1212}} your contribution is welcome! I see some of your text is without cites, or too vague a cite (e.g. you cite chapter 2). Please add page numbers, and source(s), where that is missing. Each sentence, or collection of sentences, should point to one or more WP:RS with page number(s) that verify it... as a GA review would normally check. I will give you some time for this, then do a source check in the coming days. ] (]) 00:24, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
			:::@Javierfv1212: While we are discussing Sanderson, you actually added heavily from Wallis, that too with a vague cite of chapter 2. I took that out, as undue. Let us stick with Sanderson, Flood, and such. ] (]) 21:05, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
			::::{{ping\|Javierfv1212}}{{ping\|Ms Sarah Welch}} This section is too vague and without any proper understanding. I have found a link where information about all 6 sub-tradition of Shaivism are given i.e. Śaiva Siddhānta,Pāśupata Śaivism, Vīra Śaivism, Kashmīr Śaivism, siddha siddhanta and Śiva Advaita. We WOULD NOT have do divide the article between Theism and Monism. Citation:https://www.himalayanacademy.com/media/books/dancing-with-siva/web/r1_22.html. If this acceptable then we can re-wite this section. ] (]) 17:05, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

			== Shaivism is a religion since pre-vedic period ==

			{{Admin help\|answered=yes}}
			Why are this page still portraying Shaivism is a tradition of Hinduism?

			There are thousands of sources claiming Shaivism were religion of ] and ]. Most of the matured Misplaced Pages editors know ], which developed out of the merger of ] with numerous local religious traditions.

			Shaivism remained the dominant religion in India until the arrival of the Aryans, who violently attacked the Shiva cult. Shaivism — which continued to be the religion of the people integrated into Brahmanic religion, of which it now forms an essential aspect. -

			Other refs:
			1.
			2.
			3. ] (]) 14:27, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
			:This is not an issue requiring the use of the administrator tools. All editors are free to to work on this article. ] (]) 15:22, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

			== Infobox image ==

			The image depicts the daily ] at ] associated with ] (https://www.parmarth.org/divine-ganga-aarti-yagna/). The institute is not a ] institute. Thus, suggest the image be changed. @] - since you have suggested changes at Vaishnavism. ] <sup> ] </sup> 11:17, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

			<gallery>
			Puja-im-shivatempel.jpg\|Suggestion 1
			Worship AS.jpg\|Suggestion 2
			</gallery>

			==Restoring Wikiproject==
			Please see ]. Thanks. ] (]) 03:55, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

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Archives

Six Schools of Shaivism

To reduce forking I think that Six Schools of Shaivism should be merged into Shaivism. There are more than six schools of Shaivism, and the six schools article is only sourced by one non-reliable source. An overview diagram in Flood (1996), p. 152, can be used as a simple starting point for citations on major schools. I have moved over the only material from that article that I think needs to be kept. Do other editors agree that the six schools article can be redirected to Shaivism? Buddhipriya 01:47, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

There has been no discussion on this since I posted it, and as I have moved the useful material from Six Schools of Shaivism to Shaivism, I just put a redirect on Six Schools of Shaivism to go to Shaivism. Buddhipriya 02:35, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

@Buddhipriya: I have found a link where information about all 6 MAJOR sub-tradition of Shaivism are given i.e. Śaiva Siddhānta,Pāśupata Śaivism, Vīra Śaivism, Kashmīr Śaivism, siddha siddhanta and Śiva Advaita. We WOULD NOT have do divide the article between Theism and Monism. Citation:https://www.himalayanacademy.com/media/books/dancing-with-siva/web/r1_22.html. If this acceptable then we can re-wite this sectionशिव साहिल (talk) 07:48, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

wonderful work you've done..

Since it seems Buddhipriya only works on this page I'll address my concerns in first person.

I'm a relatively New(very) editor here, so i do not wish to get cocky around here.. This article and other works of your are of such a fine quality thatt i should thank(or praise?) you for doing somuch ..

The Following are my concerns and are very minor in nature, but to preserve th Standard of the article kindly consider changing them as well.

1,The stark thing one notices is the image of the Sri Re/angam Gopuram, whic technically is a Vaishnavite Temple housing Sri Ranganathar..rather than it, the "Vimaana" of the Thiruvanaikovil should be presented if available..

2, i don't think Dakshinamurthy can be translated as "on the southern part of an outer perimeter path of the sanctum sanctorum" .

But, "Dakshinamurthi" literally translates to the either "the lord facing south" or "Overlord of South", this is simply an anagram as Shiva is Considered to be in Himalaas/kailas, the entire India is in the southern direction relative to Himalayas.

Also, as interpretted by Sukumari Bhattacharji, in "The Indian Theogony" , "Dakshinamurthy is the one who can manifest & transcend many forms but desists" ..Pg 212 , The Indian Teogony, ISBN 0-14-029570-4 , Her Reference is from Rig Veda X:72, Slokas 5,6, & 7.

on a practical sense, Dakshinam means descending /death (literally more used to refer death/end/change as Yama's corner is south)

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Swraj (talk) 19:55, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Temples of Shaivism

Srirangam temple is not a Shiva temple. This is an error. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Youonlylivetwice (talk • contribs) 20:39, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Fails B criteria

<tag>...</tag>, {{expand}} tags added. Redtigerxyz (talk) 13:34, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

More information regarding beleifs of Saivites?

Reading this article as somebody who was itnerested in finding more about Saivite beleifs, and their basis, I find that this article does not fully explore this. I am not qualified to make such additions but I have no doubt that others on here are. If you compare it with the Vaisnavism article, you will see what I mean. Harrifer (talk) 16:03, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Found a link describing the "cosmology" on hinduwebsite.com. About what Śiva is up to and how the individuals are going about to circumvent karma-mechanics. ... said: Rursus (bork²) 08:12, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

And this one from experiencefestival.com seems to be a heavily reworked version of our article, providing lots of pieces that might profitably be used in our one. ... said: Rursus (bork²) 07:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

moon god cult

moon god is widely considered directly related to hinduism. what is the Hindu view point? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.4.16 (talk) 16:06, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Shaivism not Shivaism

Introduction referred to Shivaism. In title and all other parts the term Shaivism is used. Now corrected. Centrepull (talk) 17:58, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

It's not a correction if you delete the name entirely. It's a common term. — LlywelynII 03:02, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Merger proposal

Done. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:03, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Propose to merge History of Shaivism into Shaivism. The history-section of the Shaivism-article is too short; adding info would double the histpry-article. Both articles are short; merging them would result in a still reasonable lenghty article. And it's handosme to have the info together. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:48, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Support - per above. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:48, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
Support The merged article should add sections on history of Shaivism in Indonesia, Cambodia and Vietnam. You will find literature spelling it as Siwa there, and temples as Candi. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 22:22, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:18, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

History

The Shiva article also contains a history-section, which maybe could use some expansion. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:06, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Tarakeshwara

Not sure where it fits into the current setup of the article, but it's worth mentioning the importance of the psychopomp Tarakeshwara tradition at Benares where anyone dying in/near Shiva's temple at Manikarnika Ghat is supposed to have a mantra whispered into their ear that grants instamoksha. It's an old tradition and a fairly major source of the city's importance to Shaivism/tourist income. — LlywelynII 02:59, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Move?

This article is probably at the wrong place. Aside from the need to restore "Shivaism" to the lead , ngram has "Saivism" as by far the more common name of this faith. What makes it tricky is the number of sources that give it as Śaivism, which is effectively "Shaivism". — LlywelynII 03:05, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Development of Shaivism

@Joshua Jonathan: @Kautilya3: kindly help develop the Shaivism article. Ms Sarah Welch is contributing the article, please guys your help is certainly helpful.--Anandmoorti (talk) 06:27, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

The section on the various sub traditions should be changed

This article divides the various Shaiva traditions between Theism and Monism, which doesn't make sense because many Shaiva traditions are both monistic and theistic. Alexis Sanderson, the top scholar on Shaivism, divides the religion into "Atimarga" and "Mantramarga", each with further divisions. I propose this section be reorganized along the lines set out by the latest scholarship on this matter (as outlined in the works of Sanderson such as "Saivism and the Tantric traditions"). Javierfv1212 (talk) 00:03, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Sanderson does present Shaiva streams (strotra) as Atimarga and Mantramarga, per the 1st and early 2nd millennium Indian texts. Does he deny there were theistic/dualistic and non-theistic/monist ideas in Shaivism, if so which page number? Do you have other specific sources in mind, other than this Sanderson's chapter 36 in the Sutherland edited book published by Routledge, and the Saiva Age paper published by the University of Tokyo?

I had thought along the lines of what you are suggesting, but then decided otherwise and retained some of the old content of this article. For two reasons: we need to avoid WP:RECENTISM; The most NPOV version would avoid taking sides, nor make this article into exclusively Sanderson-pedia (he needs to be cited, and is already highly cited in the article, far more now than ever in this article's history).

The best summary would include both the "theism and monism" scholarship, as well as the "atimarga and mantramarga" scholarship. We already mention the latter in "Beliefs and practices" section. But, a bit more atimarga etc summary in the "Sub-traditions" section is planned. This may come by early next week, sooner may be. But if you or someone has something to contribute, by all means add it, save me some effort. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 05:18, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

I added a few sentences to the sub-traditions section for now. More later. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 06:24, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Good work. As for Sanderson, he is really the best source on this, all other scholars that I have read on this topic (C. Wallis, G. Flood) are working off Sanderson and citing his work. I understand your view of preventing recentism, but Sanderson revolutionized the academic study of Shaivism, and few would disagree that he is the source to work from.

Ultimately, the uselessness of the "monism" vs "theism" or dualism distinction is that these sects changed over time. For example, the Shaiva Siddhanta, which is the main dualistic tradition, adopted non-dualism by the 12th century in Tamil Nadu. So placing them under "theism" or "dualism" is just not completely accurate.

Of course one could just list traditions without categorizing them into any divisions.

I have made some changes, also adding some key traditions that were missing. Let me know what you think. If the Atimarga and Mantramarga division is just too unpalatable for you for some reason, then I suggest just listing the traditions historically without categorizing them back into Theism / Monism. All the best.Javierfv1212 (talk) 00:08, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

@Javierfv1212: your contribution is welcome! I see some of your text is without cites, or too vague a cite (e.g. you cite chapter 2). Please add page numbers, and source(s), where that is missing. Each sentence, or collection of sentences, should point to one or more WP:RS with page number(s) that verify it... as a GA review would normally check. I will give you some time for this, then do a source check in the coming days. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 00:24, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

@Javierfv1212: While we are discussing Sanderson, you actually added heavily from Wallis, that too with a vague cite of chapter 2. I took that out, as undue. Let us stick with Sanderson, Flood, and such. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 21:05, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

@Javierfv1212:@Ms Sarah Welch: This section is too vague and without any proper understanding. I have found a link where information about all 6 sub-tradition of Shaivism are given i.e. Śaiva Siddhānta,Pāśupata Śaivism, Vīra Śaivism, Kashmīr Śaivism, siddha siddhanta and Śiva Advaita. We WOULD NOT have do divide the article between Theism and Monism. Citation:https://www.himalayanacademy.com/media/books/dancing-with-siva/web/r1_22.html. If this acceptable then we can re-wite this section. शिव साहिल (talk) 17:05, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Shaivism is a religion since pre-vedic period

This request for help from administrators has been answered. If you need more help or have additional questions, please reapply the {{admin help}} template, or contact the responding user(s) directly on their own user talk page.

Why are this page still portraying Shaivism is a tradition of Hinduism?

There are thousands of sources claiming Shaivism were religion of Chola Dynasty and Pandya Dynasty. Most of the matured Misplaced Pages editors know Hinduism, which developed out of the merger of Vedic religion with numerous local religious traditions.

Shaivism remained the dominant religion in India until the arrival of the Aryans, who violently attacked the Shiva cult. Shaivism — which continued to be the religion of the people integrated into Brahmanic religion, of which it now forms an essential aspect. - The brief history of India

Other refs: 1. A Manual of the Salem District in the Presidency of Madras: The district 2. Community Dominance and Political Modernisation 3. Yearning to Belong Discovering a New Religious Movement 2401:4900:4ACB:4695:ACA0:1A60:628C:DBFD (talk) 14:27, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

This is not an issue requiring the use of the administrator tools. All editors are free to to work on this article. 331dot (talk) 15:22, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Infobox image

The image depicts the daily yajna at Muni ki Reti associated with Parmarth Niketan (https://www.parmarth.org/divine-ganga-aarti-yagna/). The institute is not a Shaiva institute. Thus, suggest the image be changed. @Chronikhiles - since you have suggested changes at Vaishnavism. Redtigerxyz 11:17, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Suggestion 1
Suggestion 2

Restoring Wikiproject

Please see Talk:Vaishnavism#Restoring Wikiproject. Thanks. Rasnaboy (talk) 03:55, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

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