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Revision as of 15:39, 9 December 2004 view sourceIMSoP (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users4,538 edits this page had been bitten by the duplication bug; I believe this is back to how it should be← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 21:14, 28 December 2024 view source Tamfang (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers56,999 edits →I've been framed!: ReplyTag: Reply
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			{{Short description\|Page for questions relating to Misplaced Pages}}{{pp-sock\|small=yes}}
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			<!-- This page is for the answers you need to know about the use of Misplaced Pages! -->
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			= December 24 =
	<!-- Interwiki -->
	]
	]
	]

			== Duplicative text on ]? ==
	Welcome to the '''Help desk'''! This is a place to ask questions about Misplaced Pages and get help with editing problems. It's mainly for newcomers and users who don't yet have an account, but anyone is welcome to ask a question. Remember to check this page again (how about a bookmark?) to see if there have been any replies.

			Hi. I think there is a superfluous paragraph at the end of ]. I added ] to the Talk page asking about it. The automated help text told me that this particular Talk page is "not watched by many users" and suggested asking my question here. So: Is there a superfluous paragraph at the end of ]? If the last two paragraphs say the same thing, one should be eliminated; if not, one or both should be rewritten to clarify the point each is trying to make. ] (]) 00:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	If your question has already been covered in one of the help pages, you could get the answer you're looking for more quickly by checking the ].
			:{{ping\|Larrydberg}} I guess ] meant to reformulate the existing paragraph in but forgot to remove the old version. ] (]) 01:09, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			::I believe so. Apologies. I fixed the issue. <span style="color:#CD0000">] ★ (])</span> 07:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

			== Assistance Required for Published Article Not Going Live ==
	If your question is not specifically about the Misplaced Pages, you'll probably find the ''']''' a better place to ask; if you want to start a more detailed and inclusive ''discussion'', try the ''']'''.

			Dear Misplaced Pages Help Desk,
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			I hope this message finds you well. I published an article on India Semiconductor Mission (username - Display Ecosystem) in November, and it has not gone live yet. The article draft can be found at the following link:https://en.wikipedia.org/User:DisplayEcosystem
	''''''''''

			I would like to understand the status of this article and whether there are any additional steps or issues preventing it from being moved to the live Misplaced Pages space. Your guidance on resolving this matter would be greatly appreciated.
	----

			Thank you for your time and assistance.
	== Is there an RSS feed for the main page? ==

			Best regards,
	I have looked for one and can't find it.
			Sonali Jain ] (]) 05:26, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

			:It's because all of that content is on your Userpage. If you want to publish it completely then you should move it to a new space. However, I'd move that content to a draft and continue working on it since it still doesn't look ready to me. Should I move it to a draft so you can continue working on it? ] (]\|]) 05:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	Every day I get news, history and general knowledge from the wp main page. Would love to have all the factual articles (not meta content) available in an RSS feed.
			::Please guide me on further steps to make it live. It would be really great if you could provide me with your valuable feedbacks on page and it's content. ] (]) 05:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::Yes sure, you can move it to draft so that I can publish it again. ] (]) 05:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::Sure, I'll create a draft for you but please keep working on the content to make it better and then publish it. ] (]\|]) 05:39, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::What do you want the title to be? ] (]\|]) 05:40, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::The article is all about "India Semiconductor Mission". ] (]) 05:42, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::::I have left a message on your talk page. If you are employed at India Semiconductor Mission, you are considered a paid editor and should make a paid contribution disclosure as explained in the message. Please also see ]. ] (]) 05:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::::I would like to clarify that I am not employed at India Semiconductor Mission. This page is being created for a government organization, which operates under the Ministry. Therefore, it should not be considered as a paid contribution.
			:::::::I kindly request your guidance on any further enhancements or adjustments required to meet Misplaced Pages's standards. ] (]) 06:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::::::You would also be a paid editor if you are employed or paid by the Ministry. For advice on your draft, it currently has no sources apart from external links. Misplaced Pages does not care about what India Semiconductor Mission or the Ministry says about itself. You need to find reliable sources that are independent of India Semiconductor Mission and base the article on what those sources say. If no such sources can be found, the organization probably does not satisfy Misplaced Pages's ]. You can also read ] for further advice. ] (]) 06:22, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			:Hello, @].
			:Editors who try to create an article before they have spent significant time learning how Misplaced Pages works often have a disappointing and frustrating task, because they have no idea what it takes to create a Misplaced Pages article. It's like trying to build a house when you have no knowledge of surveying, building, plumbing, electrical installation, etc. And it's even harder when you have a ].
			:{{User:ColinFine/PractiseFirst}}
			:Be aware that Misplaced Pages is basically not interested at all in what you know (whoever you are) or in what the subject of the article (or their associates) say or want to say. A Misplaced Pages article should be a summary of what people wholly unconnected with the subject have chosen to publish about the subject, and very little else. ''First'' find your sources (and make sure they are independent: see ]) ''then'' forget everything you know about the subject, and write a summary of what those sources say. ] (]) 12:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

			== I'm having problem with loging in😭😭😭😭😭😭 ==
	Apologies if it already exists and I've missed it.

			I'm having problem with loging in😭😭😭😭😭😭 ] (]) 17:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	:Try http://jeays.net/rss.htm for some screen-scraping prototypes. I also worked up a My Watchlist RSS script, but ultimately I decided this wasn't all that useful. --] 06:48, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
			:What happens when you use ]? <span style="white-space:nowrap"><span style="font-family:monospace">'''<nowiki>''']<nowiki>]]'''</nowiki>'''</span> (] • ])</span> 17:55, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

			== Flag of Syria ==
	Thanks very much for the response, Chinasaur. Anything "official" afoot in this area?

			How can I change current Syrian flag in the page ] with the 1980-2024 version? ] (]) 17:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	:It's not RSS, but you might be interested in . —] 15:15, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
			:This discussion might be helpful: ] ] ] 17:33, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

	== ~~Votes~~ ~~For Deletion~~ ==		== George Washington ==

			It states in the Misplaced Pages, George Washington, political party - independent. I believe that to be incorrect and he was a member of the Whig. ] (]) 19:58, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	God. EVERY time I try to nominate something for deletion I manage to screw it up, and I DONT understand why because I follow the instructions to a t. I have no idea how to fix my recent nominations (all Spongebob related.) Could someone go there and fix the, and then leave me a message to tell me what I did wrong? ] 18:55, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

			:If you wish to change it, you will need to provide a reliable source backing up your claim. ] (]) 20:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	==Actor photographs==
			:In my knowledge he was never member of any political party. <br /> <br />
	Can a case for fair use be made for the use of portfolio mugshots of an actor? Could I simply use a still from a movie that's spread amongst the press? Or should I simply wait for a reply from the actor in question? I'd like the pic to be added fairly quickly, but I don't want to break copyright laws. Any comments welcome. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 22:42, Nov 6, 2004 (UTC)
			:About "]" , I verified if my knowledge were wrong and I confirm he was never member of a political party accorded to searches done. ] (]) 21:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	:If you have a publicity shot that is typically given to the press, it should be fine. They are meant to be circulated and are not copyrighted because if they were, every publication that wanted to use them would have to call the publicist. Incidentally, I would think your best bet would be to get in touch with the actor's publicist. They typically send out autographed photos to anyone who writes in. ]] 20:47, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
			::George Washington was not a member of a political party, and he was opposed to the very idea of political parties, as he explained in ] in 1796. His thoughts on that matter have been widely ignored ever since, and ], for example, was heavily involved in party politics. ] (]) 04:30, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	::No case for fair use could be made if the picture is under copyright. ]] 20:47, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
			:::Thanks @] for the details about the matter. I did knew nothing about this letter. <br /> <br /> ] (]) 04:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	:::Being under copyright is a necessary precondition for ], as fair use is a limitation on the enforcement of copyright. ]— ] ] 05:03, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC)
	All photographs are under copyright, yes even publicity stills. The copyright holder should be contacted and his permission obtained before submitting to Misplaced Pages. --] 21:59, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== ~~Hyperlinks~~ ==		== Ahir cast surname add ==

			Ahir cast 1 gujrati sAhirurname add chhaida છૈડા ] (]) 21:54, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	How do you not show links within articles? The whole page is filled with links and they are distracting.
	:There is an option in your user ] under "Misc settings" that lets you turn off underlining links. I find that that helps readability. ] 02:15, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	:What article is it you aree talking about? Maybe it needs some de-wikifying.... ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 11:44, Nov 7, 2004 (UTC)
	:You can also add this to your user CSS. ]
	a {text-decoration: none;
	color: inherit;}
	::—] (])]] 04:12, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)
	:::But, do be aware that if the number of links is not excessive, different coloured links will help with readability. ] (])]] 04:13, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)

			:This forum is only about '''"Misplaced Pages in English language"''' and not '''"Misplaced Pages in another language"'''. ] (]) 22:27, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	== How do I add a page to a category? ==
			:Are you asking to add something to ] or to ]? If so, the talk page of the relevant article is the best place to ask. But be aware that unless a ] is found, information may not be added to Misplaced Pages articles. ] (]) 23:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

			] (]) 22:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	I created an article last night: ]. I'd like to add this page to Category:Computer and video game terminology, because that is a term that has been used since the 1990's. But I don't know where to start or request such a thing.

			== Citing YouTube video is not allowed, what can I do? ==
	What should I do?

			Hello all!
	*Place a link to <nowiki>]</nowiki> at the bottom of the article, see ] for more information. -- ] ] 18:07, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

			I was revising a page about a TV drama and citing YouTube interviews of the actors which are rejected by the system.
	**Thanks! -- ]
			I ended up mentioning the year and program of the interviews, which got entirely removed by Rastinition, which I believe should be Misplaced Pages.

			What can I do? Not sure if it is a piece of information that will make a difference, the language I am amending is traditional Chinese. ] (]) 23:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	== I am getting a message to "stop adding nonsense," but I have not done anything! ==

			:If you are speaking about '''"Misplaced Pages in Chinese language"'''. You're not on the right forum.
	Why do I occasionally get this message (look between lines of dashes):
			:This is the forum for '''"Misplaced Pages in English"'''. <br /> <br />
	--------------------
			:The right forum is the next if you're talking about Misplaced Pages in Chinese language : https://zh.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:%E4%BA%92%E5%8A%A9%E5%AE%A2%E6%A0%88/%E6%B1%82%E5%8A%A9 ] (]) 23:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	User talk:198.81.26.46
			:::{{small\|For the curious, these ] unicode glyphs resolve to ]. This kind of inscrutable alphahexanumeric line noise is what is displayed in Firefox when attempting to see which Chinese Misplaced Pages page is being pointed to by {{tl\|ill}}. ] (]) 13:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)}}
	.
			::On the English Misplaced Pages, the vast majority of YouTube videos are not acceptable as references. But not all are excluded. A YouTube video on the official channel of an established news outlet accepted as a reliable source is also presumed reliable. ] (]) 04:42, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	Thanks for experimenting with Misplaced Pages. Your test worked, and has now been removed. Please use Misplaced Pages:Sandbox for any other tests you want to do, since testing material in articles will normally be removed quickly. Please see the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks. Hadal 03:20, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

			= December 25 =
	Please stop adding nonsense to Misplaced Pages. It is considered vandalism. If you want to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you.

			== Wrong information about Roman emperor Augustus ==
	Please stop. If you continue to vandalize pages, you will be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages.
	--------------------

			If Augustus was born in 63BC and died in AD14 he was 51 years old when he died. How come your Misplaced Pages lists his age 74 when he died. Please correct the information about Augustus’s age when he died in AD 14. ] (]) 00:53, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	I have done nothing on this site, except to find myself constantly browsing around on it with admiration! Some weeks ago, I did start one of the "learn to edit" pages, but did nothing with it.

			:You can make the change yourself and provide proper, reliable source to back up your claim. ] (]) 01:00, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	At one point in my session today, all the characters on each page started displaying as small squares. I reloaded the site, and the problem stopped.
			:Where does it say 74? ] correctly says 75. BC means Before Christ. AD meand ] which is after Christ. There was no year 0 and he didn't reach his birthday in his year of death so he was 63-1+14-1 = 75. ] (]) 01:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

			== Adding crypto address for donations ==
	I am not trying to hurt the site, really. I can only be accused of spending too much time while I should be doing laundry!!
	:Thanks for your note -- the comments you're talking about almost certainly aren't aimed at you. If you look again at that talk page, you'll notice a note in italics that many Internet users share IP addresses (i.e., when you dial up to the Internet, you're accessing through a server that others also use for access). Unless you sign up for a ], the site only sees you as an IP address. Apparently, occasionally you connect to the Internet through an IP that has been used by someone else for vandalism -- the warnings are for them. Sorry for the inconvenience -- I'm afraid the only thing to do is either ignore the warnings or else get a username (which is free and quick -- click the link at the top of the page that says "Create an account") so that you'll only see messages intended for you. Good luck, and sorry for the confusion! ] 20:26, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

			Why dont you add crypto donations? Its probable easier for peoplr to transfer from digital wallet ] (]) 01:12, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Fix redundant capilisation in a title ==

			:We don't have anything to do with the donation process; please offer your suggestions to donate@wikimedia.org. ] (]) 01:14, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	I created ] from a sketchy page on deadpages called ]. As you can see I inadvertently capped the second word. I tried moving it to a page with the capping fixed but to no avail. Is there a simple way to do this (ie am I being thick) or would someone be kind enough to do the honours? ] 01:20, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
			:Adding to what 331dot said above, crypto donations were stopped following ], which you should read before making suggestions. <span style="white-space:nowrap"><span style="font-family:monospace">'''<nowiki>''']<nowiki>]]'''</nowiki>'''</span> (] • ])</span> 04:11, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

			== Pending Changes duration ==
	:I don't know what the problem was, but I tried moving it and it worked. It's now at ]. - ] \| ] 05:10, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
	:Thanks Matt (for the record, it kept teling me the page already existed) ] 09:55, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

			Typically how long is Pending Changes turned on for individual articles? I ask because, assuming I'm interpreting correctly, Pending Changes has been turned on for the Henry David Thoreau article since 2017. ] (]) 07:02, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Prejudicial report on current court-case? ==

			:It seems that Pending Changes status won't expired after a period of time. According to ], editors can make request for unprotection to remove PC. ] (]) 16:00, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	Hi. I'm a new user and haven't yet mastered all the policies but found this new page ] which seems to concern a ongoing court-case and is quite possibly prejudicial. Not especially notable, I wouldn't have thought (althought it's sad to think that's the case...) Thought the safest thing might be to flag it up and move on. Cheers, ] 13:26, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	:In my opinion that page is a news article, not an encyclopedia article. I have listed it for deletion; its entry is ]. ] 15:41, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

			== How do I change my monthly donation ==
	== Copyright question ==
	I don't usually do images, but I have a drawing I want to upload. The drawing is originally from a book published in Austria in 1918. The copyright should have expired by now, right? ] 15:43, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	:Under U.S. federal law, which I believe is extended to other friendly countries by a number of treaties, a copyright does not expire until 70 years following the author's death. If the publisher is still around, I would contact them for permission. If not, I would say it's pretty safe as being pretty darn close to "public domain", but it's not clear-cut. I'm finding more and more that copyright law is really never clear-cut, so err on the side of caution. Personally, though, I would say you are pretty safe. ]] 16:50, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC)
	*I thought anything published in the U.S. before ] was in the public domain and that the new rules apply to subsequent works. ] 17:22, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC)
	:You're right. Works published prior to 1923 outside of the U.S. are now public domain. Thanks, PS. Isomorphic, you are good to go. ]] 17:45, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC)
	::Thanks. Image uploaded and added to ]. ] 22:45, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

			How do I change my monthly donation ] (]) 10:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Indirectly related categories ==
			:See ]. ] (]) 10:43, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

			== Nigel Pegram actor. When Google searching for my name, it says that I died. Trust me, I'm still happily alive. What can I do to rectify the situation please? ==
	What, if any, is the one true way to link to categories that do not properly fall within the scope of a category, but I consider it rather likely that people will want (ie. wrong from the database POV, right from the navigational concenience POV)?

			Nigel Pegram actor. When Google searching for my name, it says that I died. Trust me, I'm still happily alive. What can I do to rectify the situation please? ] (]) 13:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	Example: In , I'd quite like something along the lines of:

			:If you are ] here, then fortunately you are still alive on Misplaced Pages. Unfortunately Misplaced Pages has no control over what external websites and search engines say, and you would have to find a way of contacting them directly.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 13:07, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	''Possibly you wish to find material from one of the indirectly related categories'':
			:(ec) The article about you(]) currently indicates you are alive, though in November it was edited to say you had died(, even providing a source, though I know little about it). This was removed, but perhaps Google has not indexed this change.
	: \|
			:We can't help you with issues surrounding Google searches; you would need to contact Google or the sources that indicate you are deceased to ask them to issue corrections. ] (]) 13:11, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
			* might give the impression that Misplaced Pages is saying that Nigel Pegram died on 28 October 2024. Not sure where they found this, but it wasn't the current version of the Misplaced Pages article.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 13:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:They could have found it in added by an editor (Rolando Williams) who was maliciously altering various dates in biographies and has now been blocked. Apologies to @] and please note that the advice at ] says that this is one type of vandalism you can immediately revert yourself. However, please make other suggestions for changes to the article on its Talk Page. ] (]) 13:59, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
			*::Dear Michael, Thank you so much for your quick reply and for explaining the situation.
			*::Happy Christmas!
			*::Best wishes
			*::Nigel (Pegram) ] (]) 14:28, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::{{ping\|Nigelpegram}} The alleged death was copied from Misplaced Pages to {{Q\|Q106264634}} at our sister project Wikidata on 11 November 2024. It was removed from Misplaced Pages 16 November but not from Wikidata. I have now removed it. Google does not reveal sources for their data fields, only the text snippet at the start if it's from Misplaced Pages, so I cannot say whether it will have an effect later. Here is a stock reply for similar posts:
			::::] Are you by any chance referring to a photo or text shown to the right of a Google search? Google's ] uses a wide variety of sources. There may be a text paragraph ending with "Misplaced Pages" to indicate that particular text was copied from Misplaced Pages. An image and other text before or after the Misplaced Pages excerpt may be from sources completely unrelated to Misplaced Pages. We have no control over how Google presents our information, but Google's Knowledge Graph has a "Feedback" link where anyone can mark a field as wrong. The same feedback facility is also provided on Bing and some other search engines.<!--- Template:HD/GKG ---> ] (]) 18:02, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

			== False historical information ==
	to appear just between the catmore template and the main listing of category contents ---- ] 09:24, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

			I can’t seem to get any of the false historical information posted on this site to be removed / updated.
	:To refer to a category, all you need to do is put a colon in from of the name in the wikilink, for instance <nowiki>]</nowiki> displayed as ]. ] \| ]]] 14:45, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

			How can we get this addressed in a quick manner? ] (]) 16:43, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	::Thanks, this solves the technical part of my question. As to the other part, is this idea of a template for indirectly related categories something that sounds reasonable stylewise? ---- ] 16:04, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	::Why not - go ahead and make one, and we'll see if people use it. You should probably mention it on Misplaced Pages:Catagorization, the Village Pump and other places when you do, so people will know to use it. ]

			:If you've tried to remove false information by ], remember to either include a source or remove information without a source. ] - if a reliable source reports on an untrue fact, Misplaced Pages will host it as if it was true in most cases. Enough factual information is published to where running this way is more efficient than being a platform of ]. ] (]) 16:48, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	== editing issue ==
			:Generally, the best way to address an inaccuracy in an article is to start on the article's talk page. If the "inaccuracy" is cited to a reliable source, you'd need to provide other reliable sources that counter it. ] ] 16:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
			:It's hard to give you a clear answer when you haven't told us what article you were trying to edit. But generally, if you tried to remove something and got reverted, this is for one of three reasons:
			:#. You removed something without explaining why in the edit summary, and an editor patrolling for ] mistook an unexplained removal for vandalism.
			:#. You removed information which was, or appeared to be, verified by a ]. You will need to address this, either by showing that the source does not verify the information or is not reliable; or by adducing other reliable sources which support your version.
			:#. You are working in a ], where different people have different views about what information is genuine and what is false.
			:Whichever of these cases applies, you should open a discussion on the article's talk page, making sure to ] the editor(s) who reverted your edits - you can find who they were by looking at the article's history. ] (]) 20:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

			== Templates to cite journals, books, etc? ==
	I've managed to screw up http://en.wikipedia.org/Reflexology_chart
	The links to Sciatic and Appendix both reference the edit page, not the actual Wiki entry.
	Is this some bug related to the use of tables, or is there something else I'm missing?

			<s>]</s> ] is fantastic. You basically just copy-paste unformatted information (author name, title, publisher, etc) and it formats them for you. Do we not have templates that can cite other sources? A template that cites journal articles would be particularly helpful. They often have numerous authors and, depending on the topic, dozens may need to be cited to write one complete article. ] (]) 21:07, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	Found the problem - The actual wiki entry didn't exist.

			:There is a ] specifically for citing journal articles. You can find some more citation templates at ]. ] (]) 22:08, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	== category question ==
			:I remember coming across ] the other day and it functions somewhat similar to a citation template, maybe you can also find some templates you want at <nowiki>Category:Specific-source templates</nowiki>. ] (]) 22:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Sorry, ], I meant ]. That one fills the parameters automatically. ] (]) 22:16, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::There's always https://citer.toolforge.org/ for URLs, ISBNs, DOIs, PMID, PMCID, and OCLC. ] ] 22:18, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::]... that does exactly the trick! Wonderful. Thanks <3 ] (]) 00:27, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::@] There is also the ], which you can install so that it is available as part of the source editor. It does an excellent job on ]s in particular, with slightly less white space than the toolforge tool gives. ] (]) 16:03, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

			== Question about an edit from 2 years ago ==
	I tried to create a category ]. If you follow it, it lists the articles, but also says that the category doesn't exist. I couldn't locate what I've done wrong at ]. ] 11:59, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

			So i was digging around and i realized that 2 years ago someone(that is currently blocked from wikipedia) edited the article about "Rap God", particularly in the critical reception part where it went from "the song recieved critical acclaim" to "the song received mixed reviews" even tho it currently doesnt display it due to this being so long ago.
	Sorry, that link won't work. I'm more confused than ever now. But you can get there via ], which is in the phantom category. ] 12:09, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:(I've corrected the link. Add :Category to go to the category itelf. ] \| ]]] 14:42, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC))
			before: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Rap_God&oldid=1072529929

			after: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Rap_God&oldid=1075188916
	:I don't think you've done anything wrong. The Category exists, but hasn't got a page to go with it. The page is really just to explain what the category is, and to link to other categories that this Category is a sub-category of. You don't neccesarily need an explanation, but in any case put the Category in at least one other category, as you would articles. You can edit the page as you would any other article.] 14:24, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

			Im pretty new to editing and contributing so i apologise, but what ended up changing because it seems that it was still acclaimed/praised by critics?(Kory Grow from Rolling Stone, Jim Farber from Daily New, and Nick Hill from Contact Music among others) ] (]) 23:40, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	::There: that's looking a bit more healthy. You now need to see if there are any other similar articles that can become subcategories of ]! ] \| ]]] 14:42, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
			:Hi @]. Since the editor who changed it is blocked, we can't ask why they made that edit, but neither wording ("critical acclaim" or "mixed reviews") is in the article now. The reception section simply summarizes the reviews and lets the reader make up their own minds. ] ] 00:08, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Ah I see that makes sense, noted. I was just wondering so thank you for the response ] (]) 09:39, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

			= December 26 =
	== Making a contribution marked with my IP to be marked with my username ==

			== Newly created article with another title ==
	I started an Article about my project ], but I forgot to log in. Can I make it to my username instead of showing my IP?

			I recently created '']'', a 2018 British children's novel written by ]. A year later it was published in the states by Macmillan Publishing under the title ], which is currently a redirect to ], due to a single on that album having that name. However, the top search result from Google for "The Day the World Stopped Turning" is from Amazon books (Michael Morpurgo), and the fourth and fifth search results on the first page from Google are from Macmillan Publishing and ] for the book. The single from the album is listed as the eight search result. I wanted to create a redirect for the American book title, but I don't just want to hijack that redirect page. Any advice on what to do, if anything, or should I just not worry about it. Thanks.]] 10:00, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
	Thanks!

			:@] The usual procedure in such cases would be to turn the redirect page into a ] page. Read that page for instructions or come back here if you need more help. ]\|] 10:09, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
	:(Question moved from top of page, notice left on ].)
			:Definitely looks ripe for a DAB. There is also a song by that name on ]'s '']'', a song by that name by ] as recorded on ]'s '']'', and a book by ]. ] (]) 17:58, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
			::I DABified it. ] (]) 18:12, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

			== Unknown parameter ==
	:See ]. Note that these requests may take a long time to be filled. ]—] 16:44, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

			] has an unknown parameter "\|1=" somewhere but I can't find it. ] (]) 11:42, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Resolving NPOV disputes ==

			:I've made a change. How's that? '''] <sup>(] • ])</sup>''' 11:45, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
	Take a look at ]. ] is making edits that people widely disagree with, and I've been trying to explain NPOV to both him and myself. My question is not about this specific case, but more general: is there any place I can go to to ask people to help? It's nice that Patriotic and I are talking, but one of us will go away sooner or later, and I'd like to keep the fire burning (and not have everything degenerate into edit wars again). This is the first time I'm in a dispute like this, so pointers are appreciated. ] 17:28, 2004 Nov 10 (UTC)
			::Thx. Source formatting can make my eyes glaze over. ] (]) 11:49, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::No problem. \|1= just means that there is a null parameter. Either \|text or \|\|. Easy to miss. '''] <sup>(] • ])</sup>''' 12:10, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

			==Image and navbox==
	:See ]. ] 17:47, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
			The topmost image in the ] article on the left is of him in his military academy jacket from youth on the left side, however, the image is printing out in a section below the one where it has been edited into the article. This seems to be a navbox/infobox conflict issue, but it seems that there should be a way to cause the image to appear where it is intended to be placed during regular editing. How does one keep the image in place in spite of apparent navbox conflicts? ] (]) 15:51, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
	::That's exactly the link I was looking for. Thanks. ] 17:52, 2004 Nov 10 (UTC)
			:{{ping\|ErnestKrause}} I used ]. ] (]) 18:26, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
			::It worked like a charm. Nice editing. ] (]) 00:00, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

			== I don't understand the point of ] ==
	== Misplaced Pages reverts to "old" format when I login ==

			The reason why I don't understand the point of ], is because it's supposed to act as a guideline to not use citations in the lead if the information they would like to source is not mentioned in the body. It says on the article, "Because the lead usually repeats information that is in the body, editors should balance the desire to avoid redundant citations in the lead with the desire to aid readers in locating sources for challengeable material." What I see is editors, including myself (I have just realised as going over the guideline), they put into the lead what was not mentioned in the body. For example, copyediting from another article and or from an infobox if on the page. Most editors don't know this and just add whatever. We all want editors to follow Misplaced Pages's guidelines, right? So maybe the administrators should maybe do something or someone of a higher rank should do something about this guideline? ] (]) 22:50, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
	Hi, sometime in the last few months, Misplaced Pages got a wonderful new look/format, with a nice modern sans-serif font, and with the very useful tabs along the top edge of the article, etc. (was this the upgrade to MediaWiki 1.3?) Anyway, Misplaced Pages stays "modern" only while I'm anonymous; when I login, Misplaced Pages reverts to the old/less-attractive format, with the Times/NewRoman font (?) etc. - ugh! I have searched around the helpdesk, FAQ, etc., to no avail. Oh yeah, this may be significant: I use the Opera browser. Help? ] 19:44, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

			:Your first sentence seems to be backwards: if the source is not mentioned in the body , it ''should'' be cited in the lead. But as I understand it, there should not normally be any information in the lead which is not in the body (forther up the same page: "Apart from basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article.")
	:Could it be that your skin is set to something other than the default? Try going to ] and changing your Skin to "MonoBook". If you've already tried that, I'm not sure what to suggest. As long as you're successfully logged in, as far as I can tell, the server should be giving you the skin of your choice, so I don't think it could be a problem with cookies or JavaScript. I don't know, though, maybe it could—what version of Opera? Tried upgrading to the latest? ]—] 20:19, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
			:As to your last sentence: there is no "someone of a higher rank", and admins as admins have no part in setting policy (though they may be called upon to perform administrative tasks like closing discussion). If you want to open a discussion, you're as qualified to do so as anybody - either at the talk page of the relevant guideline, or at one of the departments of the ]. ] (]) 23:04, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Thanks ] (]) 23:15, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

			= December 27 =
	::Bingo! My skin preference was not set to anything; setting it to MonoBook did the trick. Thanks Triskaideka!!! ] 20:43, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

			== Citation format for interviews - citing interviewer ==

			Hi all -- quick question about citation/quote formatting. Appreciate any insights!

			I'm using an interview of a subject of an article (]) as a citation for a fact about an exhibition Gilliam held in New York in 1968. I am ''not'' using one of Gilliam's answers in the interview as the source for this detail, but rather one of the interviewer's statements. The interviewer gives details about a work from that 1968 exhibition. Is there a way to properly format an interview citation to show that I'm citing the interviewer rather than the subject, and is it in general OK to use an interview source like this, with the interviewer as the actual source of the information? And relatedly, would it be "correct" to include a bracketed statement of who is speaking if I were to include a quote from the source in the citation? Here's what I'm looking to cite/how I think it would be formatted (quote would probably be shorter), as both a long citation and harvp with a quote:
	== Chemical Notation ==

			-Section of article -
	I see there is a section in the help desk already on creating a chemical structural formula using ASCII art, but in a lot of the articles on various chemical groups people have used pictures, which look as if they have been created by a program. Is there a program somewhere that does this, or are these just pictures that have been nabbed from elsewhere?
			*Detail about the exhibition<ref>{{harvp\|Gilliam\|2019}}, : "Another situation you responded to with interesting results was your first one-person show in New York at the Byron Gallery, in 1968. You were presented with a 30 foot wall, so you decided to make a 30 foot painting with the playful title ''Sock-It-To-Me''. Shockingly, the gallerist turned the lights off at the opening because he was angry at your thinking-on-your feet gesture of installing what he deemed to be unsaleable work."</ref>
			-Citations-
			{{reflist}}
			-References-
			*{{cite interview \|last=Gilliam \|first=Sam \|interviewer-last=McGlynn \|interviewer-first=Tom \|title=Sam Gilliam with Tom McGlynn \|work=] \|date=September 2019 \|url=https://brooklynrail.org/2019/09/art/sam \|access-date=11 February 2024 \|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20230926040413/https://brooklynrail.org/2019/09/art/sam \|archive-date=26 September 2023 \|url-status=live \|oclc=49309197}}

			(I did some major clean-up on the Sam Gilliam article a while back before I really understood the nuances of citing interviews, doing some patching now to add in secondary sources to the few places where I accidentally used an interview as a sole citation.) ] (]) 02:53, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
	] 04:47, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

			== Small question ==
	:Well, there is ChemDraw, but that program is by no means free...I mostly nab them from other places, too little creativity in the pictures to be copyrighted. I doubt you can copyright a picture of a chemical structure. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 09:15, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)
	::OK, thanks. Looks like I'll stick to using ACII art then. ] 03:43, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

			How do I see my edit count to articles only? Is there a script for this? ''']''' (]) 06:37, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
	::: I'm happy to create pictures for people. Try putting the ascii art (or a really clear description of what you want)on a page ], and I'll give it a go (I don't have ChemDraw, but I reckon I could do simple 2D diagrams easily enough) ] ] 22:19, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
			:@] there's a simpler way: go to ], expand the "Search for contributions" menu, and select the "(article)" namespace. <span style="white-space:nowrap"><span style="font-family:monospace">'''<nowiki>''']<nowiki>]]'''</nowiki>'''</span> (] • ])</span> 06:43, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Alright thanks a lot ''']''' (]) 06:53, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::I have done as you said, but it seems like it doesn't show the number of edits, which is what I need ''']''' (]) 07:23, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::Go to ], scroll down to the bottom, and select "Edit count" from the links there. Then scroll down to the "Namespace Totals". -- ] (]) 09:17, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::Thank you ''']''' (]) 12:14, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::::Also, see the "namespace totals" section at for a nice pie chart of your contributions per namespace. '''] <sup>(] • ])</sup>''' 14:49, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

			== Transclusion ==
	== red links in featured articles ==

			Is there a way to transclude pages cross-wiki? ] (]) 09:07, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
	I was considering suggesting an article for featured status, and wondered if the presence of links to as yet non-existent articles is considered a no-no in featured articles. Apologies if this is not the right place for this question, but the "Featured article candidates" didn't seem the place for a question about general principles.
			:{{Re\|Sangsangaplaz}} No, that's not possible. The only exception is that pages at Misplaced Pages can ]. -- ] (]) 09:13, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

			::Thanks. ] (]) 09:14, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
	] 13:34, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	:Generally, the best place to start a discussion on something is wherever it will be seen by the people who would be interested in the discussion. In this case that would be either ] or ]. Really general discussion can sometimes go to the ]. The Help Desk rarely spawns much discussion; most topics here are simply a question with a single response. ] 18:48, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::Thanks for your reply, but I wasn't aiming to start a discussion. I imagined this would be very much in the "simply a question with a single response" category. Perhaps there's no hard and fast rule about this which is why I haven't found one. ] 11:38, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::: I would think that if the red-linked article is to an article that Misplaced Pages ''should'' have (at some point in the future) then this is completely fine. ] 11:46, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::::Red links aren't a bar to a featured article, but you sometimes see people complaining about. They can be an indication that an article isn't sufficiently developed - anyone with the knowledge and background to write a featured article can usually at least write appropriate stubs for most of the related red links. ] is intended as a stepping stone for an article you are grooming for 'Featured article candidates'. In particular you could ask for input on red links there. -- ] 11:56, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Formatting tables ==

	In wikicode tables (the whole <nowiki>{\|, \|-, \|}</nowiki> thing), is there any way to (1) control the width of the columns and (2) to specify the horizontal alignment of the contents of certain data cells? ] 18:02, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:Yes. See ], and elsewhere on that page it shows how to use 'align=center' (where the alternatives are left and right). (Note the ] spelling of 'center'.) More table help can be found at ]. ] \| ]]] 22:28, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== help with sorting out ] copyvio ==

	I'd like some advice about sorting out the ] ]. I've checked and sufficient amounts of the article are copied word for word that I believe that it's a coypvio. At the same time, those who wrote it are not being cooperative (they delete requests for clarification from their talk pages e.g.) , so I can't expect their help.

	The biggest problem is that there is a reasonable amount of original material, but that the edit which introduced the first copyright violation is quite old . I'm a bit unhappy to revert to the previous version to that. I may try going through the article and editing out apparently copyright material, but without cooperation it is very difficult to tell what is what.

	Any suggestions?? ] 20:27, 2004 Nov 11 (UTC)

	== no instructions, no clue ==

	This is about the most confusing site I've been on.
	I simply want to vote against deleting the Election 2004 discrepancies article but there is absolutely no clue as to how to do that, as invited at the top of the page. It is a valuable collection of links and information and should be retained. I guess one must be a computer programmer to post on this site.
	:There '''are''' a lot of instructions. (See ], ], etc.) However, there may not be instructions on doing what you are trying to do. One reason for this is that generally voting on deletion is only done after an editor has some expierence, so basic guides have not been felt to be necessary. VfD(Votes for Deletion) is a major point of controversy for Misplaced Pages. Since all text(unless it's a copyvio(copyright violation)) is under the GFDL(GNU Free Documentation License) if you are concerned that the text of the Election 2004 discrepancies article will be lost, I suggest you copy it to another Wiki. There are many that specifically request articles that may be deleted from Misplaced Pages. Among them include(off the top of my head), Infopedia, Disinfopedia, etc. As long as the text is saved, the article can be put back if necessary. ] 01:19, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	:If you want to add your vote to the debate, simply follow the link at the top of the article to ], edit the page and add your vote. Voting is so easy it doesn't need instructions. Just vote ''''delete''' or '''keep''' and give your reasons. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 13:15, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)

	== Dundas Square ==

	I've run across an article in Misplaced Pages that reads like it was written by a marketing hack for a Toronto landmark called Dundas Square. Is there a protocol for vetting this kind of information...this is beyond a rewrite. It really does need to be examined and done away with, IMHO.

	:I've given the article ] a quick read and it seems to provide proper info on the square. Can you give specific examples of things you see as marketing? ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 13:03, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)

	== Diebold Message ==

	Is anyone else seeing the message "Breaking news: Walden o'Dell, CIO of Diebold arrested for rigging the Ohio election results! Kerry recognized as the rightful Present Of the United States!" It was at the top of ] but when I went to edit it out it wasn't visible in the source code, then it vanished from the display. Likewise, I found it atop the ] but it wasn't in the source code. How could something show up on a page and not be in the source code? Ave! ] 16:03, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)

	:By being in the wikisource to a template the page included. The vandalism was to ], and can be seen in its history. -- ]\|] 18:36, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== How to encourage someone to check a fact? ==

	Twice yesterday, this newbie noticed facts in articles that may or may not be correct. I can't find out the correct version myself, but someone should. What's the correct way of dealing with things like that?

	Specifically, the article on ] claims both that he died on 12th November and 13th November. And the article on ] used to say that it closed on 12th November but now says that it closed on 29th November. In both cases, I tried to find out the correct date from other web pages, but I found both versions were stated about equally commonly.

	I tried posting on the articles' talk pages, but I'm not sure if anyone reads those. Is that the correct place, or is there another location where I could usefully post such questions?

	Thanks for any guidance. ] 14:38, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	*The talk page is indeed the first place to start as anyone who has the underlying article on his watch list will be alerted to the presence of additions to the talk page. Be sure that you give it an edit summary that will prompt someone to read your query, something like: "Two Contradictory Death Dates in Article" or some such thing. Another good place for this is our reference desk at ], which is seen by a lot of people who know about many topics. I'm copying your question there now. Glad to have you aboard. ] 15:10, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

	* Thanks for your helpful answer, PedanticallySpeaking, and for posting the specifc questions to WP:RD. I'll keep an eye out there for any answers. ] 18:15, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== How do I handle transient information?? ==

	What do I do with information that is likely to change in the future? For example, in the ] article, I wanted to mention how many there were, and wrote "as of 2004...". For another example, the article on ] starts: "Barack Obama (born August 4, 1961) is an American politician, and U.S. Senator-elect from Illinois." which is clearly only applicable for the moment (as he will soon be a senator, not a senator-elect.

	Is there some convention for this sort of thing? I did not see anything on point in the style guide page.

	:] is indeed the proper way to handle it., but if at all possible try to avoid time-sensitive sentence constructions alltogether. In the senator-elect example you could mention when the elections he's standing for are. That way future readers will know whether he's still an elect or actually a senator. Also, try to update as soon as new info is available. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 15:43, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

	== Hide the blue question mark? ==

	I am very new to Misplaced Pages. I am trying to post some literal code. Parts of it, for example the text:

	textureMap ":SubFolder1:SubFolder2:MyTexture.jpg"

	Keep getting a blue "?" inserted in the text (treated as a WikiWord). Is there any way to supress this?

	Also does Misplaced Pages have an equivalent to the HTML pre (pre-formated) tag, or is there a way to force the use of raw HTML?

	The site I am trying to post to is not the main Misplaced Pages site, but seems to be some sort of sub branch, and does not use the formating bar. the site is:

	http://www.poserpros.com/PublicWiki/PublicWiki

	: That site isn't a sub-branch of Misplaced Pages — rather, it's an unrelated website running similar ] software, so things will work differently in both places, especially since Misplaced Pages differs from the programming-wiki standard in a few important respects. In this case, the two important differences are that on conventional wikis, links to other articles appear in ], and links to articles that don't exist get the blue question mark you're seeing.

	: As for the "how to avoid", the help links at the bottom of the pages on that wiki are the best place to start. Their suggest that '''''' is what you're after (under the "Escape sequence" heading there).

	: Of course, since it's an unrelated website running different software, you'll probably find more help on that wiki should you encounter further problems there. ]— ] ] 05:27, Nov 14, 2004 (UTC)

	== 2 vandals on my IP. Help! ==

	(Mirrored on ]) <br>
	] and ] use one of the same IP addresses as I do. This is because we live in the same house, because we are related. I seem to be the only one given to constructive edits, and I am fairly sure the other two are eventually going to get banned based on my conversations with them IRL. When they do get banned, I do not want to go with them, so I would like to know if there is any way to distance myself from them so that the IP we share is not banned, or that I am in some way still able to access the Wiki. Thank you! ] 23:59, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	:As far as I know, registered users can have their name banned so other people with the same IP still have access. Maybe an admin on the vandalism in progress page can help you with that. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 19:09, Nov 14, 2004 (UTC)

	== Creating a User Page - description about onesself ==

	As a newly registered user, how should I create a user page? If I just click on edit, whilst at my account it says on the edit page:

	Please do not create an article to promote yourself, a website, a product, or a business (see Misplaced Pages:Policy).

	So this cannot be right, becasue I am not allowed to create an article about myself on that page. So is there some special way of setting up these user pages? And when it is set up, how do I get it to appear upon the structured lists (i.e. alphabetical, country) - is this a separate edit of some kind, or are they linked in some way? ] (sig added by ])

	: The user page isn't an article — articles are in the main namespace, and user pages are in the User: namespace. So you can happily create ], but you shouldn't create ] about yourself. ]— ] ] 01:17, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)
	:To create your user page, click on your user name in the top right corner of the screen, next to the human head icon. That will take you to a new page where you can edit and add a description of yourself. To add yourself to the various lists, just go to list pages; find the proper part(i.e. what country you're from) and type <nowiki>~~~</nowiki>(while logged in); this will create a link back to your User page(which you just created by following my instructions above). ] 02:04, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Text of language on interlanguage links ==

	Per ], I'd like to change the text that appears for the interlanguage link to the Sanskrit wikipedia from संस्कृत to संस्कृतम्. I've changed the text on ], but I suspect something more needs to be done. What? ] \| ] 00:44, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)


	== Handling of Dates in Articles ==

	What is the protcol for handling years mentioned in articles. For example, if I write in a biographical article that someone "... did something in 1965 and did something else in 1966..." is it supposed to be "" and ""? I ask only because I notice other contributors putting in the syntax and I wonder if I am missing something.

	Personally, I don't see much value to linking to the 1965 page, but does the link serve any other useful purpose?

	] 02:33, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)
	::Well, for dates it allows users to pick a date format. Check the help on Preferences for more info(I think). And, it should be <nowiki>]</nowiki>, not . Single brackets are external(full url) links, double brackets are internal(various shortcut) links. ] 02:48, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:::Linking a date like April 12, 2003 like this: <nowiki>], ]</nowiki> allows for dates to be formatted according to a user's preferences. Loose years should only be linked if whatever someone did had a certain impact on a country, sport, etc. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 10:20, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

	== How does the size of wikipedia compares with other encyclopedias? ==

	I know that it would not measure quality, but I was wondering if anyone had any rough measure in terms of either number of articles, or number of megabytes, etc.
	] 02:33, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

	:See ]. -- ]\|] 02:38, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	==Cache problem on main page==
	I've updated Did you know and formatted some Main Page sections to wrap text around pictures and make sure the selected anniversaries stay within the table. After I purge the cache it looks fine, but when I went to look at another site and came back, I got the old version. All my changes are still intact when I look at the separate templates, what happened? ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 10:17, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)
	*Edit: I never had cache problems with this machine before. Now cleared my cache, no problems so far. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 12:01, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

	== Against Deletion ==

	An article I wrote is on the votes for deletion and I want to challenge the call for deletion. How do I effectively do that? Please provide specifics, thank you.
	::The best way to do this, is providing others with reasons why it is not against wikipedia policy to include it. If it's a small article, maybe you could incorporate the info in a larger article. What article are you talking about? I might be able to be more specific if I know. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 10:45, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)
	::If you happen to be talking about ]: Websites should have a certain popularity before being included. The Alexa ranking mentioned on the deletion page shows it's not popular enough. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 10:50, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

	==Main Page Tables==
	The left table on the main page is pushing the right one away. Can someone fix it? I can't find the problem. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 12:42, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)
	:That's easy enough: the left table is set at width 55%, the right one at 45%, hence the difference. (I'm assuming you're referring to that, I can't find any other problem in either Firefox or IE). AFAIK, only an admin can fix that, if indeed it's something that should be fixed. ] 12:58, 2004 Nov 15 (UTC)
	I guess it's a problem combining 800x600 screen size with an odd Internet Explorer on a Mac. The right table is no more than 30% of the screen in what I saw. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 13:16, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

	== Timestamps ==

	How do people generate the nice, neat "00:29, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)" style dates? Is there a tag you can use to automate timestamps to discussion entries?

	If there isn't, it'd kick ass if there could be one. If there is, I'd have been better able to find it if wikipedia:time, date, and/or timestamp had redirected to mention of it.


	( test: {{date}} {{time}} {{timestamp}} {{currenttime}}
	Hmm... that's weird. the DATE template exists, but not one for the whole unix time?
	Surely I'm missing something. )

	23:48:56, Venezuala/Houston/Chicago/]-time

	:Use <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> to generate the timestamp and name for discussions. - ] \| ] 05:56, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)
	::Try ] now... (It really should have a better link for more information; someone please fix this.) ] 07:41, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Category errors & NPOV? ==

	There is an article under the category Ethnic Groups: African labeled "Bantu". However, there is no such ethnic group as "Bantu". "Bantu" is a term created by convention among European linguists, and dozens or hundreds of different ethnic groups speak languages categorized as "Bantu" linguistically. The Bantu-speaking peoples collectively share none of the features one might use to define an ethnic group; the ethnic groups who speak Bantu-languages vary widely along all of those features.

	This is an issue of definition. It is comparable to writing Ethnic Groups: European: Indo-European. Indo-European isn't an ethnic group, and neither is Bantu.

	Yet obviously someone has thought otherwise. I understand the basic idea of NPOV and don't have a problem about working with it within an article.

	However, to have something that seems to me to be a factual, definitional error built into the very organizing structure of the information seems to pose a different sort of problem.

	Is there a convention for dealing with this sort of difference of perception? How much leeway is there? I assume an article Animals: Fishes: Whales would not be permitted to remain, except perhaps to point out that this is a somewhat common error. Is that assumption correct?

	Ndlovu
	:I looked at the entry in question. It looks like the article itself makes it clear that "Bantu" is a linguistic and (to a lesser extent) cultural term, not an ethnicity. I suspect that it was categorized that way because even though Bantu is not an ethnicity, the ethnic groups who speak Bantu are not represented in individual articles yet. It's a way to make what information we do have on those peoples easier to find.
	:However, if you feel that having the "ethnic group" label is misleading readers, it's easy to recategorize it. You simply edit the article and add or remove category tags. In this case, you would remove the tag <nowiki>]</nowiki> from the article code. ] 16:03, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Moving Page Help ==

	Help! Someone moved ] to the less common, more POV name ]. I tried to undo the move, but moves didn't work the way I though they would. See ] for more info. Can someone help? - ] 18:19, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	:Your move would have worked if you had left the redirect in place, because if a redirect created by a previous move is left alone, then a move back will work. As it is, you will have to get the ] redirect deleted by an admin, by listing it on ]. ] \| ]]] 20:00, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Numerous questions ==

	I have put a number of questions in my User page because they seem too long to foul up your Help desk with. The questions are listed in a part of the user page with a header shown as "November 16, 2004 -- questions to all." I'm really starting to become concerned I should remove my edits and stubs because I'm not sure I'm conforming to some of the standards listed in the citation citing discussion, verifiability, and perfect page discussions, though I'm giving accurate info. Also concerned about the "original research" and "neologisms" discussions I just read. I wonder if someone could answer in my user talk page or if I need to write a long list of questions here? I'd have uploaded a photo or two by now also but I found the copyright discussion too hard to understand. For instance, if I am directly given a photo image by the photographer, who only asks that I put "copyright" and his name on it but approves it to be used, is that not good enough? I don't really understand how to upload images. I don't understand how to make a new page for a historical figure with the same name as a currently existing page also. That issue has slowed me up some. Then if my information is directly from inquiring about birth/date/fact info from the person or their survivors, that might be thought "original research." I'm totally stymied at this point and fear I should remove my entries and edits. I have only been editing and writing about music figures in an area of my specialty in every case, except for a phrase or two related to an entry. Also, should I find a way to put my contributions list links into my user page so someone can go and tell review what I've done and tell me what I need to work on, my flaws? ] 20:23, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	:I think most of my questions above are being answered at my user page, thanks. ] 16:31, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Spacing between paragraphs ==

	I have discovered today with the ] entry that someone felt the spacing I added between paragraphs to make them readable was superfluous and removed them. I find it very hard to read articles from a design standpoint if you don't properly space between paragraphs. The only way to do this is to hit Enter three times between paragraphs instead of twice. However, no entries besides the ones I've worked on do this. Therefore, regardless of what I think about the readability issue, I should go back and remove the spacing I added from all entries I've edited, correct? This is also a question in my user page. thanks,
	] 20:25, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:Yes, the same standard formatting should be used on all pages. Putting a single blank line between paragraphs makes the '''<nowiki><p>...</p></nowiki>''' HTML tags that surround paragraphs work correctly. Putting an additional blank line adds an extra '''<nowiki><br /></nowiki>''' tag, which is superfluous, at least from an HTML perspective.

	:If you don't like the amount of space between paragraphs, you can try editing your personal stylesheet (] if you're using the default ], Monobook) to your liking. Try adding this line:

	p { margin: 1.5em 0em }

	:Make the number 1.5 smaller for less space between paragraphs, or larger for more. In order to see the results of your change, you'll need to follow the instructions on that page to clear your cache after you save the change.

	:Part of the reason you want to be consistent about style issues like the number of blank lines between paragraphs is so everybody can tweak their stylesheet as they prefer and achieve uniform results. If you insert those extra spaces manually, you're forcing a certain style on everyone. HTH]—] 21:00, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	::Thanks, I have edited my stylesheet according to the above and am now going to renew the spacing on all entries I edited that way to be the one line space. At least I didn't edit anything only to do spacing and nothing else though. ] 21:35, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== edits ==

	Is there a way to transfer only certain information from one article to another?

	: By hand, usually -- copy it out of one, paste it into the other, then remove it from the first. Unless I misunderstand what you mean ]— ] ] 03:47, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

	== Contents tab ==

	I did a large bibliography section for ] a while back, and since I had to use different headers for poetry/dramatic works, Misplaced Pages automatically added a Contents tab right after the article text! I thought it looked very wrong, a CONTENTS tab AFTER the article, covering the bibliography section only.. is there a way to remove it? -- ] 18:11, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:Yes. See ]. You can put the text string '''<nowiki>__NOTOC__</nowiki>''' anywhere in the body of an article to suppress display of its table of contents.

	:Another option is to put a section heading close to the top of the article, so that the TOC shows up in a more sensible place. For example, in ], you might start a new section called "Life and works" immediately after the first paragraph. Whether that's a better option than <nowiki>__NOTOC__</nowiki> is a matter of personal opinion, I suppose. ]—] 18:28, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::Thanks a lot!! I used the NOTOC option, since I'm planning on expanding the article and don't want to edit its header structure right now :) -- ] 18:38, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:::Personally, I think having a proper header structure is far better: only a short introduction should be outside all headers in anything but the smallest article. And then, of course, people can actually make use of the ToC to access the other parts of the article. I'm going to do that now - you can, of course, revert, tweak, edit or whatever if you disagree with how I've done it, or because you're expanding and rearranging it in general. - ] 18:50, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::::Actually, yes, this looks better.. I think I'll leave it like that for a while, until I have a good cohesive text ready for the article. Thanks for your help! :) -- ] 21:35, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Adding images to article ==
	Help! I have this image of ] that I want to put into my article on him, but I don't know how to. Here's the link: ] 21:38, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:Take a look at ], ], and ] for what to upload (''beware copyrights''), how to upload it, and what to do with it then, respectively. - ] 22:04, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:That image is copyright either ESPN or the guy whose name is on the image itself. Please don't upload it, we have enough images claiming to be fair use already. -- ]\|] 05:18, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Inappropriate links? ==

	What is Misplaced Pages's official policy on inappropriate links?

	Specifically, there is a page about an actor with an external link leading to his nude pictures. Is this allowed?

	:Whether a link to nude pictures of an actor is appropriate depends on the particular actor. You're going to have to actually tell us what article you're talking about if you want a specific response on whether the link belongs. -- ]\|] 05:23, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::And if you're going to keep the link, at least put in a warning. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 08:21, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)

	== Templates and Categories ==

	Is anyone here really good with Wikimedia templates? We're trying to think of a way to set up the <nowiki>{{delete}}</nowiki> template so that the template can contain the category tag but be sorted in the category list so that it is separate from all of the actual CSDs. I feel like there must be a way to manipulate the pipe trick and template parameters for this effect, but I don't have a lot of experience with templates. Look at my suggestion at ] and see if any of those ideas will work. --] ] 16:59, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)
	::You could use <nowiki>{{subst:delete}}</nowiki> to include the text from a template on the pages in question and manually delete the category. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 08:18, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)

	== Search Question ==

	I created a page, the ]. In the search engine, it will only come up when I type in the exact pharse "Battle of Watling Street". Is there anyway to allow another search item to be linking to it? (e.g. by typing "battle of watling street" will bring the page up)

	: I'm not sure why the full text search isn't picking the article up under "Article title matches" when you search for "battle of watling street". I suppose it's possible that it was not indexed properly, but only a developer can know for sure. One workaround would be to create a ] from ] to ]. --] \| ] 22:56, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)

	::This is the same problem I posted about here a couple of weeks ago. Your search isn't finding the article because it would appear that the wikipedia search index is only getting updated on an occasional basis. Last time I was looking it took a month for my pages to show up in search. The reason the full article name is working is because you are using the "Go" funtion not the "Search" button. I would appreciate a comment from the developers as to whether this is the normal state of affairs. ] 23:03, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:::Are you perhaps thinking of the ''external'' search (choice of Google or Yahoo!) which is used when the "real" site search is disabled for performance reasons ? Being external search engines, those will only update when they periodically trawl this site along with billions of others; I can't imagine any reason for the ''internal'' search not to index pages as they are created/edited - unless, I suppose, the ''indexing'' is also disabled during busy periods... - ] 18:53, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== disambiguating ==

	I have just put up an entry for ] to help sort out a conflict in other references, such as at the ] entry, to this Palmer being confused with the British singer by the same name. I have a couple of questions. First of all, there seem to be more than one way to do this disambiguating process. Some, as with ], involve making a disambiguation page and specifying what each person was known for. Obviously Al Green, the musician, is much better known than the politician mentioned on that page. Another place in the faqs here discusses just putting a notation on the top of the more famous individual's page and having the search lead straight to the best known individual. For some reason they chose to have a search of "Al Green" lead to a disambiguation page instead of to the musician. So for a search on "Robert Palmer," which method would you suggest be used to disambiguate? I feel it should go to a disambiguation page and have one that is ] and one that is ] because both are famous. Would the problem be that there are too many already-existing links going to the british singer's current ] page? I suppose I could try to make a project of looking all those up in a Google wikipedia search and correct them myself if someone was concerned about that. I am worried about how to complete this disambiguation correctly ] 23:23, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:Like everything else in Misplaced Pages, disambiguating is done according to what each editor considers to be best practice -- and different editors write different guidelines, I'm afraid. We do TRY to be consistent and come to consensus on these things, but disambiguation is one of those things that really must be judged on each individual case. For the most part I support using a "disambiguation block" of one sentence or so at the top of the "most famous" person, but that's always subjective. I don't think the ] page was strictly necessary, but the creator was probably thinking ahead, since both "Al" and "Green" are very common names and there may be more Al Greens out there becoming notable as we speak. (Still, I prefer to deal with present realities -- it's very easy to change something to a disambiguation page in the future ''when'' it becomes necessary.) That said, I'm also the one who created disambiguation pages for ] (33 entries!) and a few other common names...

	:In your case (and as one of the contributors to the current ] page), I'd have no objection to moving it to ] and leaving a disamb page there -- although I'm not as familiar with the other Robert, he certainly seems equally notable to me. In my personal opinion, you might consider moving him to ], though; with such a multitude of talents, it seems cleaner to me, and it's easy enough to use a "piped link" such as <nowiki>]</nowiki> so that the middle name does not display in the linked text.

	:Already existing links are not an obstacle to moving or renaming a page, though they do create some work for the editor. (Accuracy is more important than ease!) Each page has a "What links here" link in the sidebar. If you move the existing RP, it would be your responsibility to use that link and go to each article that mentions RP, and fix the link in that article text so it pointed to <nowiki>]</nowiki> instead of the new disambiguation page. You might even find a few more that should link to RFP as well!

	:Have I rambled on enough....? ]\<sup>]</sup>]] 00:23, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::He was never known by anyone but his mother by his full name, I hope no one tries to change it to "Robert Franklin Palmer." He was always known as "Robert Palmer," as that was his byline and his production/musician/author name. I don't see anyone wishing to call the British singer by his full name which is also written on his ] page as "Robert Allen Palmer." Anyway, I have tried to disambiguate and had great difficulty. I have finally done it, with help from the Requested moves desk, but lost all the list of "what this links to" links. I did change a number of them prior to making the move, but I'll try looking in Google to find the rest. Thanks a lot for the comments. ] 02:21, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:::If by that you mean the list of pages that link to ], what's wrong with going to ] and clicking on "What links here"? --] 02:37, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::::It seemed that I lost a number of the "What links here" items that I saw, which was a very long list, including numerous "Talk" pages, when I made the switch. I don't know why. They do not appear in the What links here area for that page ever since I moved the page, and I feel I should have changed all the links before I made the switch. Anyway, I have made a good faith effort to find and change links intended to link to the British singer's page and will continue to change more if I find them. Everything seems fine now, thanks. ] 05:29, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:::::Not to worry, Bebop -- it's likely that since this was a public discussion other editors helped to fix the "What links here" links. ]\<sup>]</sup>]] 03:02, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== How should I handle Martin Luther King and his son with the same name? ==

	The most well known of the Martin Luther King clan is Martin Luther King Jr.,
	(the one who delivered the "I have a dream" speach, etc.)

	I am thinking of writing a short article on his eldest son, who I believe
	went by the name "Martin Luther King, III". Should that be the title of the article (with the comma and the roman numeral 3)?

	Is there another way to handle this? Some use the custom of dropping the "jr." etc. when only one is alive, but that is probably not wise in this case, as he is so well known.

	:Also to add to this person's question, I'm curious about what house style is on "Jr." and "III" because some style manuals prefer people to not include a comma before "Jr." The only times I've left them that way so far is when I saw someone spelled a name that way already. P.S. Mpearl asked the above question, not I. ] 05:31, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:::I'd use Martin Luther King, Jr. for the the son and Martin Luther King, Sr. for his father. Those are the names most people will know them by, so that's the name wikipedia should use. His son Martin Luther King III should be without a comma, I believe. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 08:13, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)

	::::Hi again. I'm going to focus my reply here about the comma issue, whereas of course Mpearl (who didn't use a signature) brought the MLK topic at hand up. I am still interested in the comma issue after reading the above answer. For consistency, one would normally punctuate both III and Jr. the same way. Modern styles I've seen, such as A.P. style (and I also think Chicago Manual of Style) usually don't include a comma for either one. I didn't use one in ]'s entry where I mention his full name and father's name, for instance. And if I learn of a final house style on this (and an example of which style you guys are basing the comma decision on), I could adjust any entries I've seen with commas in them (like ], an entry which by the way is redirected strangely to a name he didn't use professionally, since I think all his recordings said "Jr." on them, but I'll study that further) or adjust anything I've put without a comma to have one, if need be. I did have a reason to not use the comma though, as I didn't see a style rule here and therefore went by house styles I'm familiar with. Maybe I should be talking about this in the talk page for the house style entry? I have experience discussing house styles, as I've written one before, so please excuse my interest in this tedious detail. ] 15:31, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:::::A quick glance around the style and naming pages suggests to me that this has been raised a couple of times, but has never "taken off" into a proper discussion and consensus. E.g. ], while ] amounts to "people generally use with-comma style ''at the moment''". Maybe you'll have better luck getting people's attention ("advertise" the discussion on the ] if you're really bothered), but, unfortunately, maybe not. It's the kind of detail a lot of people just put off thinking about; of course, you can always ''']''' and start systematically changing things - then if anyone ''is'' bothered either way, they'll start complaining. <tt>;)</tt> - ] 00:50, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Dificulty navigating community portal links ==

	Hello, i am very new here, actualy just arrived for the first time... Long story short, My first action here was to put a defenition on a link that lead to nowhere (no description or article on the subject)
	Since i am very new i was wondering how i did and how i could make my article better; so i went to peer reveiw. However, i got hoplessly lost because i cant tell where im supposed to put up a question there (i tried to start a topic but instead i kept being brought e to a editing page of someone else's request) so i left. And i came here and i want to know: how do i navigate the community areas? i can barely tell where the questions stop and the responses begin. Thanks

	:Above is from ], who created ]. (You can get these actions attributed to your new user name through ].)

	:You are probably looking for ], but my advice is just '''be bold'''. If you do something wrong, it is very likely that someone will come along and correct it. Most of the time, their actions may seem abrupt, but in general people will be pleasant if you explain your situation, as you have here. ] \| ]]] 16:03, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::Also, the lack of distinction between where a question ends and the answer begins is something of a feature of ]s - just like on this page, it's actually one long block of text, so a "conversation" is just a bunch of text. On many pages, including this one and ], the convention is that each conversation has it's own heading - which is created like the one above, with a line like "<nowiki>== This is my heading ==</nowiki>". So to start a new section, you just add a heading; it doesn't matter if it looks like its "inside" someone else's section, all the headings are exactly the same. And, as Noisy says, if you're not sure, do your best, and someone will probably correct it for you; if they're feeling particular nice, they'll tell you what to avoid next time... - ] 19:04, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== failed edit - lost the page completely! ==


	Tried to edit an entery:
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Tanganyika_sardine

	with my somewhat expanded text (below):

	The '''Tanganyika sardine''' is really two species (''Limnothrissa miodon'' and ''Stolothrissa tanganicae'') both of which are small ] ] ] ] originating from ] in East ]. They form the major biomass of pelagic fish in Lake Tanganyika, swimming in large schools in the open lake, feeding on copepods and potentially jellyfish. Their major predators are four species of ''Lates'' which are also endemic to Lake Tanganyika, and are related to (but not the same as) the Nile Perch in Lake Victoria. All of these pelagic fish have suffered from overfishing in the last 2 decades.

	The local names are '''Kapenta''' in Zambia or '''Dagaa'''or '''Ndgaa'''elsewhere. ''Limnothrissa miodon'' has been successfully introduced in both natural and artificial African lakes. Large kapenta fisheries now take place in the ] and ] in Zambia.

	{{stub}}

	]



	*******
	But it said it lost the page and the old ID no longer exists.
	What now?

	: To the person above who wrote about their problem without signing their user name, I am not an admin, I'm a newbie, but I just now have gone in and fixed it by the following procedure: I clicked in the History file on the time and date of an older version, clicked on the Edit tab and added into it your edits above, then hit Enter and it worked. There is helpful information in the . There seems to be a bit of a confusing editing duel going on in the page at issue, by the way. - user Bebop
	==Red linked contributors==
	How come I can see new pages being added by people with red-linked IDs?

	:The red-linked user name means they have not created a user page yet. This is the default state for all new user accounts. -- ]\|] 18:22, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	==Clarification on copywright rules- verification==

	I really.. um... anyway.

	I have been told by some people (my writing teacher, parents) that putting up someone else's ideas or information that you learned from that book/person/website is OK, as long as you correctly cite your references/sorces. I have been working by this premice (specificly, leaf leinghts and species distribution- i cannot find species distribution by going by myself out and surveying an extensive area alone- not copyinf and pasting whole articles, just peices of information that i could not obtain elsewhere) Recently i have been told by others that THIS IS NOT THE CASE!
	Since the site articles on copywright information did not answer my question, i wish to verify trough a third party if either side is correct, because i am getting coflicting reports. Who's correct?

	],

	:]; but I'll tell you what my understanding is: in general, ''facts'' are not the subject of copyright - so something like the average length of a ] leaf is ''probably'' fair game. However, copying the detailed results of a piece of research verbatim ''is'' likely to breach copyright; researchers generally want their results to be known, but the journals they publish to make their money from controlling who reads and copies the full text. I'm not sure where the line would be drawn, but I imagine it is analagous to quoting passages of, say, a short story: a few appropriate quotes, properly credited, is going to be OK, but if your quoting ends up being most of the original content, you're risking it. Obviously, anything that can be considered "general knowledge" is not going to be copyright (as long as you put it in your own words); so reading someone's website to get a better understanding of, say, ], doesn't mean you mustn't write <tt>E=mc<sup>2</sup></tt> ever again.

	:In general, putting someone else's ''conclusions'' in your own words, backed up with referenced quotations, is just good practice; but if it's a truly new and ground-breaking idea, then going too much further than a summary, so that you're paraphrasing almost the entire paper, might attract raised eyebrows. But as long as you're not ''passing the ideas off as your own'', and distinguish between direct and indirect ], no major harm is being done. - ] 00:33, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:: The amoung pages i have done so far that i am wondering about is ] - specificly the scentence((Magnolia fraseri) is a small, fragrant, basal-branching deciduous tree of the southern Appalachians with narrow, auriculate-lobed leaves.)- i found that out in a book i listed in references. If thats ok then i havent been copywrigting, but it is a direct quote, so im not shure. Mostly, besides one other scentance, its from my own knowlege and not taken from anywhere. One scentence is the same as on the internet reference (It grows best on moist, well-drained soil) but i already ''knew'' that because of its habitat (almost all plants found exlusively in that area require their soil to be like that) and because ]s virtually ''as a whole'' require that same requierment, so i assumed it was common knowledge
	]00:49, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC) P.s In the ] section it should be noted that its also commonly called '''Mountain Ash'''

	:::You should only use the ''exact words'' you read if you are using them as a "direct quotation" - that is, one with quote-marks round it, and a clear label of who actually said it, e.g.:
	::::''According to person X, the Fraser magnolia is "a small, fragrant, basal-branching deciduous tree..."''
	:::To clarify, an "''indirect'' quotation" would be more like:
	::::''Person X describes the Fraser magnolia as small and fragrant, and notes that it is deciduous and basal-branching...''
	:::] or somewhere, really]
	:::Whereas what we want here is those facts, but in ''your'' words (or, I guess, mine); so, something like:
	::::''The '''Fraser magnolia''' is a small ] ] native to the Southern ]; it is basal-branching and has...''
	:::It's not a big deal with individual sentences like that, but rewording everything you read is a good habit to get into, and it also helps you structure things into decent paragraphs when you're joining up information from multiple sources. - ] 01:11, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:There might be two different issues in question. When your professors say that using someone else's information is okay, as long as you have proper attribution (meaning citing your sources) they could be talking about meeting academic standards for research, and avoiding plagarism.

	:It is possible that something could be acceptable in a paper you submit for a course, and not acceptable in a commercial publication. For example, if I am doing a biography of someone, and I take a picture from his wedding album, and attached the picture to a paper, I should (for an academic paper) make clear that I did not take the picture myself. For a commercial publication (like a book being offered for sale) I would probably have to get permission of the person who took the picture (which would probably involve paying a fee if the person is a commercial photographer).

	:In my experience, people get made in two occasions, when they don't get credit for their work, and when someone is using their own work to compete with them. Even if you're technically in the right, having people get mad at you is not a good thing (in my opinion).
	:] 01:55, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)

	Most of the facts i am stating would be obvious to an attentive observer, and i cannot go to, say, china, and back to comment on the leingh of the fruit myself. I doubt writers of text encyclopedias would have as well, because they cant go and do '''everything''' and be '''everywhere''' to the places and things that they list in their books; its simply not feasable. ],

	:Nobody is saying you have to experience it all firsthand. And as mentioned above, the '''facts''' are not copyrightable. But the presentation is. Copyright is all about who gets paid for the work. Someone (author, publisher, journal, encyclopedia) gets paid to do the research to write "{Magnolia fraseri) is a small, fragrant, basal-branching deciduous tree of the southern Appalachians with narrow, auriculate-lobed leaves." Copyright says that (in theory at least) if they find that exact sentence, with those exact words and commas, in Misplaced Pages or any other work, they have the right to take legal action to punish us, because we "stole" the fruits of work that someone else has a legal right to be paid for. Now, if you rephrase the sentence, using the descriptive words necessary to convey the facts, but in a different order so that it is clearly a ''different'' work than the source where you found the facts (as Imsop did a nice job with, above), then the owners of the copyright have no basis for suing us.

	:Now, on the one hand, most of us here think it's a silly way to try to "manage" information -- saying a corporation "owns" a particular sentence is really frustrating if all you want is the information that sentence contains. (Otherwise we wouldn't be building a volunteer, ], ]ed encyclopedia. On the other hand, much of the knowledge available to us so freely in books and on the Internet would never have been researched or written if there weren't a profit motive for the authors and publishers. Regardless of how you feel about it, the fact is that it is ''imperative'' that Misplaced Pages obey copyright laws -- otherwise the Wikimedia Foundation could find itself under petty legal attack that we really don't want to bother with.

	:We're really glad you're trying to understand the distinctions between ], ] and ] -- we need more people to "get it" so that we can spend less time checking for copyright violations, and more time writing (in our original words!) this wonderful 'pedia, which is going to be around for generations to come. ]\<sup>]</sup>]] 06:09, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	::Fledgeling, you're mixing up two things. One is the need to cite sources for information. That has nothing to do with copyright; it's to help readers verify your facts. Copyrights protect creativity, which in this case would be the words themselves. It is not a good idea to copy an exact sentence from anywhere without using quotation marks and attributing your source. There's nothing wrong with stating the same fact in different words. ] 20:13, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	:::Okay, i think i understand now. Thanks everyone.]22:35, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC),

	== Missing link, version problem ==

	I've just posted another link on my page ]. However, while it shows in the source code and the history, the new link doesn't show on the page even after I forcefully empty my cache. What am I missing? ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 08:47, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)

	:Do you mean the link to ]? It shows up fine for me. Maybe it was just a ] after all; did you try ? - ] 19:05, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::Yeah, and I got a message saying that <nowiki>User:MacGyverMagic/Articles&action=purge</nowiki> didn't exist, maybe it only works of title= is part of the link? ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 21:30, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)

	:::Yes, it does. Or, more precisely, a web page can have parameters added like <code>?a=b&c=d</code>; that question mark has to be there, so , I now realise, does work.

	:::http://en.wikipedia.org/User:MacGyverMagic/Articles is really a kind of shorthand for http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User:MacGyverMagic/Articles, and since that's already got the question mark in it, you need an & instead, to seperate further sets of parameters. Hence http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User:MacGyverMagic/Articles&action=purge

	:::Meanwhile, does the link show up for you now? Because it was visible for me as soon as I visited the article. - ] 22:12, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	::::Yep, shows up fine now. Thanks for clearing up how the parameters on a link work. :-) ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 08:43, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)

	==Viktor Yanukovych==
	Guys,

	I tried to find a better forum for this but couldn't.

	When you open the following link in IE (http://en.wikipedia.org/Viktor_Yanukovych)

	it comes up with



	Viktor Yanukovych
	.
	MY NECK, MY BACK, LICK MY PUSSY AND MY CRACK. Khia

	MY NECK, MY BACK, LICK MY PUSSY AND MY CRACK. Khia

	MY NECK, MY BACK, LICK MY PUSSY AND MY CRACK. Khia

	MY NECK, MY BACK, LICK MY PUSSY AND MY CRACK. Khia

	MY NECK, MY BACK, LICK MY PUSSY AND MY CRACK. Khia

	MY NECK, MY BACK, LICK MY PUSSY AND MY CRACK. Khia



	where Khia links to (http://en.wikipedia.org/Khia)

	But when you open it up in Mozilla it comes up just fine.
	:It's a caching issue. There was a vandal who vandalized the page earlier today. In IE, trying hitting control+R to force a clean reload. ] 07:57, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)

	== problems with the wikipedia service ==

	what is going on with wikipedia!! lately every time i search something i get an error page. the service is not working properly.

	please fix!!!
	*Could you give a specific example? ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 21:23, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)

	== probably forgotten password ==

	Hello every sysops at English Misplaced Pages,

	I tried already to ask help from User:Meelar;

	please help me to retrieve my password
	to login to English Misplaced Pages.
	I am User:JanJosef, and I am not sure,
	If I mentioned my e-mail jpospisil at cpoj dot cz

	Now I am as User:194.228.18.42 (at my work)
	and you can check another wikis:
	Czech - http://cs.wikipedia.org/Wikipedista:Jan
	Esperanto - http://eo.wikipedia.org/Vikipediisto:Jan
	Simple - http://simple.wikipedia.org/User:JanJosef

	(I think, the IP should be the same)

	May I receive a new password?

	Thank you very much.
	Jan Pospisil
	*If you provided the wiki with your email adress when you signed up, you can go to the login page and ask for the system to send you a new password on that address to gain access to your personal pages. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 21:27, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)
	:I'm afraid I can't help you. I don't have any special rights here and I can't check such things.
	I suggest you try to see if a developer can help you. Otherwise, set up a new account, using a password similar to one of the other accounts you have so you don't forget, and have your old edits attributed to you. Good luck! ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 08:59, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)

	:Yes, I will do a new account, and I will note on the User:JanJiri, that I am now JosefJan, identical with JanJosef. Tanks many, and see you :-)
	--] 16:05, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Sorry ==

	The occupying force on April 9 allowed more than 70,000 women, children and elderly residents to leave the besieged city, reportedly also allowing males of military age to leave. On April 10, the U.S. military declared a unilateral truce to allow for humanitarian supplies to enter Fallujah. U.S. troops pulled back to the outskirts of the city; local leaders reciprocated the ceasefire, although lower-level intense fighting on both sides continued. An Iraqi mediation team entered the city in an attempt to set up negotiations between the U.S. and local leaders, but as of April 12 had not been successful. The resistance forces capitalized on this 'ceasefire' to conduct the most aggressive counter-offensive of the cordon. Additionally, numerous weapons were found hidden in the humanitarian supply trucks that were attempting to enter the city. (http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2004/04/12/rebels_smuggle_supplies_into_iraqi_city/)


	the above is from the fallujah article.

	The link is broken(the last line) and I did not know how else to tell anyone

	:In general, the best way to comment about an issue with a particular article is by clicking the "discussion" tab at the top of the screen; in the case of the article ], it will take you to ]. In this particular case, I realised that the problem was that the ")" at the end of the link was being treated as part of the link. I've fixed this by using special numbered external links: if you type "<nowiki></nowiki>", it appears as "". The old links look oddly like they were copied and pasted from the ''display'' of another page on the site, rather than the underlying code you see when you click "edit this page".

	:See ] for more on how you can fix things yourself. - ] 20:18, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)



	== I'm trying to understand all that a wiki is capable of... ==

	I'm putting together a technology plan for an social benefit organization I'm working on starting, and I'm trying to figure out how the wiki tool can best be incorporated into the overall plan. Here are some of my goals and questions:

	1. I want to have a series of webpages written by authors representing either their own ideas or those of an organization or group they represent. These authors will be identified, chosen, and recruited by members of the organization. Membership will be open to anyone who lives in the identified community and agrees to uphold certain core values and principles (as outlined by the members themselves) and to strive to behave according to a set of guidelines (also outlined by the members). What defines and unifies the group is that they all live within a defined community (with geographic boundaries) and share an intent to bring about a more just, peaceful and sustainable world in which the desires of the individual are not met at the expense of the needs of others throughout the world. This may not be the best description of the group, but I think you'll get the point.

	So my question is this, can a wiki be set-up so that a section of the page which expresses the information and perspective presented by the author (membership elected individual or group of representatives), is protected from edits by others? Then the greater membership could have access to a comment section of the page for continual edits, encouraging the author to continually re-evaluate his/her perspective and integrate their feedback into an ever-evolving article.

	The goal here is to take academics and others who've developed a trusted reputation and give them a more public platform upon which to communicate, while also removing them from the "echo chamber" where they only hear from others with the same perspectives. A sort of virtual dialogue amongst those who are either members of the community which is impacted by policies and practices of which they speak or respected experts selected by the community to help formulate solutions which work for the greater good.

	2. I don't know how the underlying wiki engine works, as I'm not all that technical, but I'm wondering if the engine could be further developed so that there are tags to represent certain kinds of data. I'm hoping for the ability to have a reference database of books, articles, lectures, videos, etc. that anyone could select from in displaying a list of references or suggested educational materials for a particular purpose. Kind of like a shopping cart of references. Say I'm writing an article about statements made by our president which relate to global warming. I could search the reference database and select those which apply to my article and at the end, I will have an automatically generated list of references. Or perhaps in the body of my article I want to list recommended educational materials grouped by category. I could simply select from the available reference database (adding those not yet there) and have the list sorted according to my specifications (by author, keyword, date, etc). Does this seem possible?

	3. How does a non-technical person go about finding someone to help set-up and administer a wiki when there is currently no budget (it's my hope that once the community begins growing, member donations will support some paid staff)?

	Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I apologize if this isn't the right place to post these questions; if that's the case, perhaps you can redirect me to the correct place.

	Thank you, Jennifer
	*If you're having trouble finding technical people to set up a wiki, you might want to start a free hosted on. Starting your own would require a server and some bandwith which can be quite costly. Anyway, I think you might like to visit on how to start a ]. Good luck and don't hesitate to contact us again if you need to follow up. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 21:38, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)

	== Neutrality ==

	In the article ], Admin (]) took sides by protecting page immediately after revert by Biased editor. Rather than protecting a pre-edit war version (the edit war goes back about 100 or so edits, by the way).

	Is this allowed? ] 22:33, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:Without looking into the specifics of the situations, my gut feeling is that the answer is "yes", this is "allowed". Although the complaint that the version protected is the "wrong" one is a common one, it is an impossible complaint to uphold - even if you go back to before the edit war began, you are still "supporting" a particular version, which presumably somebody felt needed editing. ''Choosing'' which version to protect would, obviously, be taking sides; protecting whichever version happens to be current when the protection is carried out is in fact the only way to ''maintain'' neutrality.

	:This is why the message added when a page is protected includes the text "Protection is not an endorsement of the current version. To see other versions, use the page history." Queries and complaints regarding this point are frequently much less civil than yours , and are the subject of a ] on our meta-wiki entitled '']''. - ] 22:48, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	==Misplaced Pages mirror?==
	Where would one report a Misplaced Pages mirror which was not citing Misplaced Pages? http://djpronto.com/ doesn't have any reference to Misplaced Pages that I can find, but uses Misplaced Pages content. - ] \| ] 08:16, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)
	:], low compliance ] 08:18, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)

	== Starting a category for chicken breeds. ==

	I'm looking at starting a new category (or finding an existing one!) for ] breeds. I'd like to make sure my understanding of ] is correct. Here's what I'm planning to do — I'd appreciate any feedback (positive or negative) that anyone would like to offer.

	Would ] be a suitable category name, based upon the fact that there is already a ] to do the same task for ]s.

	Currently there's ] which includes chickens. It would make sense for the new category to be in a subcategory of ]. Is there a better subcategory instead?

	Many thanks,

	--] 08:36, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:In line with Misplaced Pages's policy on being bold, I've created the category with a few articles and placed it as a subcategory in ]. However I'm still hoping for a thumbs-up/down from a more experienced Wikipedian to ensure I'm on the right track. --] 08:43, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	Looks good to me. ] \| ]]] 13:35, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:Thanks! I appreciate the check. --] 08:00, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Misplaced Pages crashes Netscape ==

	The Misplaced Pages homepage seems to reliably crash Netscape 4.79.
	This seems to be due to its use of Javascript on the homepage.

	(If I turn off Javascript in Netscape it doesn't crash).

	Javascript is not a standardized language and I should have
	a perfect right to use an old browser on an old computer because
	Netscape 4.79 is faster than modern browsers. Misplaced Pages should
	be able to accept and work with that -- they should not be
	overengineering their web pages to an extent that they crash
	browsers. Misplaced Pages is distributing information. The
	distribution of information does not require the execution
	of code on machines visiting a site. I do not friggen care
	about pull down menus or pop-up windows -- I care that the site
	works reliably in the browser and on the machines that I choose
	to use.

	If anyone could inform me of who is responsible for the
	Misplaced Pages home page I would appreciate it. Because I want
	to give them a piece of my mind.

	Thank you,
	Robert Bradbury (bradbury@aeiveos.com)
	:I too have problem with home page. I am using Mozilla 1.0.2. To e the main page does cause crash but the browser (and hence the whole computer) ''seat down'' for 1 or 2 minutes. I am experiencing the same problem also with very long and complex page (like this one). In particular the presence of not very standard character (like chinese) seems to give troubles to my computer. ] 14:54, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::] and its sister sites use an ] ] engine called ], the project homepage for which is available at http://mediawiki.org. For information on how to report bugs in this software generally, or in the setup of this site specifically, please see ]. A bug which causes the entire browser to crash will no doubt be treated with very high priority.

	::As someone who has spent a little time on the "development" side of things, I can assure you that the software is designed to conform as closely as possible to standards, and work with as many browsers as possible. Despite what you seem to be suggesting, this site uses very little JavaScript, and in fact one of its uses, I believe, is to make the site behave correctly in ''more'' browsers. There is certainly no use of JavaScript for pull-down menus or pop-up windows; the most complex pieces of script are probably those for showing and hiding certain information, so that the server can cache one copy of the page to serve to people with several combinations of preferences (this ''is'' necessary for the distribution of information, since without it the site would slow down to a crawl).

	::I am sure the developers will be much more receptive of your comments if, rather than "giving them a piece of your mind", you politely explain the exact circumstances of the problem. One thing I'm not clear on is whether this is an issue with the ] only, or with ''every'' page on the site (which would include this one). If it is just that one page, then it is unlikely to be a JavaScript issue, since no individual page can contain custom JavaScript, and the ] is not special in this respect. I gather that the Main Page has recently been edited to make different/more use of ], however, so maybe this is causing the problem? Perhaps, as suggested in ], you should therefore mention it on ].

	::Once again, I'm sorry you have had such a severe problem with the site, and hope it is successfully resolved soon; thank you for pointing it out to us. - ] 18:41, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	: Hello Robert, I have just changed the Main Page to mostly use ] instead of tables, which has stopped it crashing Netscape 4. You do, indeed, have a right to use any browser you wish to access Misplaced Pages and we try to cater for as many as possible. There are still a few problems with the Main Page and Netscape 4, which I am trying to solve. These are problems with NS4 not conforming to established standards such as CSS. The problem with Netscape crashing was not an issue with JavaScript, but in fact with CSS - which due to the way NS4 works is also disabled when you disable JS. Thanks, ] 22:18, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== History: current and last ==

	What is the meangin of the last link on the history pages? ] 15:46, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:It compares the selected version to the version immediately preceeding it. It essentially shows you the changes made in individual edits. -- ]\|] 16:35, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Whatlinkshere not updating ==

	I switched ] so it links to ] rather than to ] (see ]). But
	still lists all the pages that include ]. Why? (It only bothers me because I'm trying to see if anything links to ], now a redirect page, and I'm getting all these false positive results.)] —] 18:06, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:It is most likely to be a caching issue -- to see if it's on your machine, try holding Control/Command down when clicking your refresh button, or using Control-F5, or following the instructions at ]. If it's a caching problem on one of the intermediary servers, it should clear up soon (10 minutes to an hour). I know it's frustrating when you're trying to follow up on work that's half-finished, but use your watchlist or a to-do list on your user page to remind you to come back to it, and trust me that the developers are working as hard as they can to keep things like this from interfering with our work. (If you're inclined, please consider so that we can continue to upgrade our hardware....) HTH, ]\<sup>]</sup>]] 19:37, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	No, it's still doing it (from a different machine). Would you mind checking it out, someone, and see if you see it too, please?] —] 14:47, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	:It's wrong from my computer as well. I'm not sure what's going on, but it might have something to do with the dates of last change compared to what is being cached. I think I'm going to try testing a bit. ] 20:49, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	::My small tests weren't successfull. But I have an idea what it could be. I assume all articles have an internal id in the database. If the caching of the '''What links here''' and/or the templates only happens once in a while, and the id of the article remained the same when you renamed it, changing the template to point to the new name means it still points to the same id internally. Hence the software might think nothing has changed and therefore nothing to update. I didn't have the patience to test this theory though. It would probably take two of the cycles mentioned by Catherine, one for updating the link to something else, and then another for changing it back. ] 21:42, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	:Heh, just saw the post a bit further down on the page, about changes to templates not being properly propagated to pages using the templates. :-) That would explain it. But it certainly defeats the point of templates, doesn't it? ] 21:50, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::Firstly: yes, this does seem to be a problem with the template code, similar to that with categories - ordinary links being stored in the database in a similar way, for purposes of Special:Whatlinkshere etc.
	::But secondly: no, this does not "defeat the point of templates" - the "point" is surely to include the same text in multiple places, and allow it to be updated "at source", as it were; ''this is working fine'', as you can check by looking at the bottom of those pages which include the template, and seeing that the link ''has'' changed. The only problem is that until you make another edit to each page, the software "doesn't notice" that the link has changed, and so the part of the database which Special:Whatlinkshere uses remains out of date; annoying, but minor compared to actually getting the content right.
	::Thirdly, the way to "solve" this (not a quick one, I'm afraid) is to make a trivial edit to ''each page containing the template''. For instance, I have edited ], and it now no longer shows up on ]. AFAIK, there is no easier way at present; over time, of course, this will happen naturally, as the pages are edited. - ] 14:52, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	:::You are of course right about this not defeating the point of templates. Not sure what I was thinking when I wrote that. Probably a bit hung up on the what links here thing. ] 16:48, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::::Well, that's fair enough: like I say, it ''is'' a pretty irritating bug; unfortunately, it's not a trivial one to fix, as far as I can see - the obvious solution of automatically parsing all the pages that include a template (as though you'd edited them all) would put an untenable strain on the server. Meanwhile, I've updated ] to reflect the fact that it's not just categories that don't get updated when you change the template. - ] 19:47, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	Thanks, all.] —] 20:59, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Boilerplate Templates ==

	Is there a special page that lists all template pages? I don't want to create new templates that duplicate the function of an existing one.
	Are there guidelines for what belongs in a template and what does not?
	*Yes, there is a list, maybe not of all templates, but at least of the templates people cared enough about to list. I'll track it down...Found them. There's a complete list at: ], new ones can be added at ]. Generally, stuff you have to type repeatedly like welcome messages, or stuff that's hard to code repeatedly are done in templates. I hope this helps. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 19:10, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)

	==Access?==
	Hello dear Jim,<br>
	is the only way for me to get into "Wikepedia" some mention of 42nd Baltic Fraternities` Convention to become a contributer/editor ?
	Greetings from Germany<br>
	Jürgen<br>
	webmaster@concordia-rigensis.de<br>
	:Everyone can contribute to Misplaced Pages. Just use the edit link on top of the page, or better yet, sign up for a free account so you can get your own user page. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 09:40, Nov 25, 2004 (UTC)

	:See also ] and ] - ] 20:01, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Reversing images - Can it be done with regular markup? ==

	I've recently uploaded a ], and have used it on the ] page. Unfortunately, the chicken in question is looking to the right, and I'd much rather mirror the image so that it's looking to the left.

	Why do I care which way the chicken is facing? It's got to do with ]. People naturally want to see what others are looking at. If images of people or animals look interested in the article text, there's a better chance that the reader will be interested as well. If the picture is looking away from the text, then the article overall appears less interesting. Therefore, I want the chicken looking at the text to its left.

	I ''could'' move the image itself to the left of the page, but then, depending upon the article text and browser settings, one can end up with orphaned words under the image. That can be a little jarring to readers, and something I'd like to avoid.

	So, is it possible to automatically mirror or flip an image using regular image mark-up, or will I need to upload a second image (or replace the existing one) with a mirrored copy to suit my purpose?

	Many thanks,

	--] 07:59, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	:As far as I know, there's no mark up to mirror or flip a picture. You'll have to do another upload. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 09:46, Nov 25, 2004 (UTC)


	::Thanks. In which case, I've flipped my image. --] 20:46, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)


	==Templates and caching==
	In the interests of sanity on my user page, I've borrowed an idea I found on ]' site, and included my picture and list of useful links in a side-bar as a template.

	However I notice that any changes to this template don't update immediately, and I cannot find how to make this happen; presumably the template code is cached on the server, because refreshing my browser cache (Ctrl and reload in ]) does not cause an update, and other items on the main page do update immediately. I usually just wait and hope. I wouldn't know where to look for information on how to fix this. Is there a way I can force the cached template to refresh on the server? --] 22:14, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:You've diagnosed the problem absolutely correctly. There is currently ] that means that changing a "template" which is anywhere other than the Template: namespace doesn't cause pages containing that template to be regenerated in the server's cache. There are two ways of working around this problem:
	:# make a trivial edit to the "target" page (in this case, ])
	:# use the special "action=purge" URL: either add "?action=purge" to the normal URL () or hit "edit" or "history" or something, and change the "action=" bit to say "action=purge" (). (The two are equivalent; if you want to know why they look like that, see ].
	:"We apologise for any inconvenience caused." - ] 23:01, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::Oh, I know what else I was going to say: not sure why that template isn't showing up with a pink background when included, very mysterious; for a while, I thought the cache still wasn't purging even when I told it to, hence the test-vandalism you may have noticed on the template. Sorry about that. - ] 23:05, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::: Thanks for the help. Yes it was mainly the background color that I was interested in propagating. This would make the divisions in the page more visible to the reader. I even tried putting the background color information in a table outside the template, but it still doesn't work. Oh well.. --] 23:21, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::: Added: For now I'm putting the style stuff in front of each table item, which is tedious but has much the same effect as I intended. --] 23:42, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== adding to a votes for deletion page ==

	hi,

	how do i vote for/against the deletion of a page

	*On every page that has been placed on VfD, you will find a link that reads "please see this page's entry etc". Clicking on that link will bring you to a subpage of the main VfD page where you can add your vote for that specific page. (You can also browse the main VfD page and click on "edit" next to the page you want to vote for) -- ] ] 02:59, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Categorization in Arts and Visual arts ==
	I'd like to do a lot of cleanup in ]. There doesn't seem to be a lot of activity there. The last decision seems to be here ]. I have some suggestions at ].

	There doesn't seem to be a wiki project about Arts. Is there a place with Arts discussions some place? What would be a good way to proceed?
	] 21:51, Nov 26, 2004 (UTC)
	:I'm not really an art type of person, but it seems arts pretty much covered in Misplaced Pages, but not very organized. If you want Arts discussion to get centered in one place I suggest you start a ] on it. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 22:16, Nov 26, 2004 (UTC)
	:::Thanks. It seems really odd that there isn't an arts project already. There seems to have been an arts wikiproject at some point in the past - a few other wikiprojects still link to it. hmm. ] 23:15, Nov 26, 2004 (UTC)

	== ] and ] — rename or redirect? ==

	G'day lovely wikipedians,

	At this time Misplaced Pages does not currently have a page for ], however it does have ]. Unfortunately this means that editors must type an extra "(chicken)" every time they wish to create a link. I'm eager to see this avoided.

	I can easily add a redirection page, but what I'd really like to do is rename ] to ], and have the redirect work the other way around. Are there any conventions that I would be breaking in doing this? Must a chicken breed end in "(chicken)" even if it's not ambiguous?

	Note that the only ambiguity I can find is with ], where Silkie is mentioned as an alternate spelling. I've added this to the ] page, although I'd love someone to check my placement and wording.

	Many thanks,

	--] 01:25, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:What you want is the "move" command. It renames the page and creates a redirect at the old title in a single operation. I've already done this for you. -- ]\|] 02:23, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Changing uploaded image name? ==

	I uploaded ] after spending a long time making sure the photographer understood the copyright issues. But I'm still new to this and it's my first upload.

	Big problem -- one is that I forgot to put his name in the jpg title. I certainly don't want to be confused with the person the photo was taken of. How can I move it to say ]? I would much prefer it be titled that. It is not of interest to either me or wikipedia that it is "enhanced" and "self por" doesn't tell anyone who it's of. I don't know how to delete it and restart and the Move function didn't work. Also, I apparently only activated an "alternate text" option but not a caption and am curious how to format that (see image description page link to article using jpg). ] 01:55, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:There's no way to change it once it's been uploaded; just upload a new copy of the image with a new name, and I or another admin can ] the old one for you, since it's a duplicate of an existing image. (Normally items must be listed on ] and discussed, since images cannot be undeleted.) Just let me know when you've copied over the information you want from the old image.

	:The same text is used for captions and the alt text. However, a caption will not display unless you use the keyword "thumb" or "frame" between pipe symbols in your ]: <nowiki>]</nowiki>. "Thumb" with a pixel size will resize it; "frame" will generate frame and caption without resizing. (Note that the first images in an article are generally placed to the right of the article text.) ]\<sup>]</sup>]] 04:01, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::Thanks, I've made the change and put a "delete" tag on the older image. I don't know if that automates some process to have it show up on a page where admins look and delete things, but I think it does. I'm putting the rest of this reply in my talk page; thanks again! ] 14:12, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	:Yes, that tag lists the article in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion, which is regularly patrolled by admins. I am always appreciative of people who use the deletebecause tag and mention the reason that they think it needs deletion so that I don't have to guess why. ] 17:16, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)

	== Changing format of username ==

	Is it possible to change my username from 'Randyjohnston' to 'Randy Johnston'? Thanks a lot. --] 04:53, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:You can create a new account, and ask the developers to ] -- this might take several weeks or more, though, as our volunteer developers are severely overworked! Or, if you don't care about attribution, just redirect the user and talk pages from the old account to the new one.

	:If you just want your signature to display differently, you can customize your signature by going to ] and changing the field "Your nickname (for signatures):". The software automatically puts <nowiki>"]"</nowiki> around the text entered in this field, so that whatever nickname you choose to use as a signature will be linked to your user page, whatever the spelling. (for more, see ].) Good luck! ]\<sup>]</sup>]] 07:20, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	::Okay, thankyou. I have posted my request on ]. Please try and find time to move my information to my new username. Thank you a lot! --] 17:57, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== How to make a {{....}} tag. ==

	How do I make a double brace tag such as <nowiki> {{inuse}} </nowiki> and is there a list of
	already existing ones?
	:That's called a template. If you wanted to make <nowiki>{{blah}}</nowiki>, then you would go to ] and put the content there. ] 21:38, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)
	:Oh, and yes, there is a BIIIIIG list somewhere but I can't remember where it is off the top of my head. ] 21:39, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)

	:: You're probably thinking either of ] or ]. --] \| ] 22:04, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)

	: Check out ] for more details on setting up templates. --] \| ] 22:04, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)

	== Personal workplace (sandbox) ==

	Is it OK to set up a personal workplace page (User:Name/Workplace) or something like that as a temporary place to work on an article? ] 01:58, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:It's perfectly okay. You can use subpages of your user page for pretty much anything short of attacking other users, violating copyright, or hosting your own wiki. -- ]\|] 02:15, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:It's much preferred! By working on articles in temporary workspaces on a user subpage you keep the main article namespace clean. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 11:26, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC)

	== Linking Images ==

	How do I link images to an external location? ] 21:19, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	*You can't. Every picture in Misplaced Pages needs to be uploaded to a wikipedia server or to the Commons. This is simply to guard wikipedia from copyright issues. All pictures on wikipedia need to have notices regarding the copyright status of the image in question. More help is available in our ]. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 21:15, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC)
	** I've seen someone linking a Get Firefox logo to http://GetFirefox.com/... Must've been my imagination. Is there anyway I can stop an image from linking to its image page? ] 21:19, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	*** Nope. Best you can do is shove a redirect on the image description page. -- ]\|] 21:20, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	**There's also vandalism issues as well. It makes it slightly more difficult to link in offensive images. -- ]\|] 21:20, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Downloading the Encyclopedia ==

	Hi,

	perhaps this question was here 1000 times but i didnt found an answer or i am to studpid. But if i want the content of the english encyclopedia on our school server because we dont ve access to the internet what do i ve to do? MYSQl and PHP and Apache2 is installed. How big is the full english version with pictures?

	Greets and thx max

	:I doubt you have the server space to download the entire wikipedia. The information is spread across several severs, and it took the Wikimedia Foundation quite some time to get the equipment together. Trying to gain internet access is the cheaper solution here. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 12:50, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)

	::The database dump is not ''that'' big in terms of disk space (currently about 45gig for the whole thing with edit histories, 11 gig for only the current revision), but you'll need a lot of bandwith to download it. Latest database dumps are available . Oh, and of course you will also need an internet connection to download a database dump in the first place :p -- ] ] 13:44, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== How to edit a protected article? ==

	Hi,

	I would like to edit the description for ], but the only edit link available lets me change the external link to the college website and nothing else. How can I change the typo in the description? Right now it says that Capitol ] degrees, which makes me think of pine cones!

	:] looks editable to me. I think you may be clicking on the "edit" link next to the "External Link" heading. Instead, click on the "Edit this page" () at the TOP of the page. See if that works for you. --] 18:08, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)

	== Infobox on parks pages ==
	] noticed that the WikiProject Protected Areas tables are buggy in Firefox, sometimes overlapping text and causing other problems on the page. Should we be using newer markup or templates? ] 06:19, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)
	:It's working fine now, so I wonder if it was a problem with Misplaced Pages. Thanks anyway. --] 10:13, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== Album covers ==
	Would it be okay if I uploaded several album covers and used them in articles about bands? The reason I'm asking is because I've seen people complaining there's a ton of images on Misplaced Pages that claim to be 'fair use', and a lot of notices about copyright problems etc. And I wouldn't want to add to the problem. The upload dialog has a box that goes "I affirm that the copyright holder of this file agrees to license it under the terms of the Misplaced Pages copyright." While uploading an album cover that was downloaded a long time ago from some website, I can't really grant that the copyright holder of this file agrees to license it, can I? Does that mean I have to find out where I downloaded the image, then contact the webmaster of that particular site, then ask him/her for permission and only upload when the permission is granted? -- ] 10:09, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	:See ], read the ], and don't forget to add the appropriate ], like <nowiki>{{Albumcover}}</nowiki>. --] 10:26, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	::UGH this is all very confusing actually.. Oh well, I'll try to figure it out. Thanks. -- ] 21:01, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
	:Bear in mind that the copyright of these album covers won't belong to the sites you found it, but to the original copyright holder: one or more of the artist, designer, lyricist, band, copy writer, publisher, distributor, photo library, etc. It is complex indeed. I am not convinced use of album covers is fair use, because it may be all of the work by a particular artist, even though it may be considered incidental to the music. But I'm not a lawyer, just careful. ] 12:23, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

	== Login/Logout ==
	Several times this week I have been automatically logged out while trying to edit. Why? NB:- If I get logged out while I'm editing this, I'm ]. Please either put the reply on my talk page, or notify me on my talk page when the reply is here. Thanks,--] ]]] 17:07, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	==Edit Search History==
	I'd like to delete some items from the drop-down search history (empty pages,missspelings, etc)
	that show up when I start to type into the search box. Can this (editing) be done?
	] 20:45, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	* That's a feature of your browser, not of the website. In Firefox, go to ''Tools - Options - Privacy - Saved Form Information - Clear''. In IE, it's ''Tools - Internet Options - Content - AutoComplete - Clear Forms''. Note that either one of these will clear the auto-fill history of all websites, not just wikipedia. Does anyone know how to do it on a site-by-site basis? - ] 22:36, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	:*Thanks ] - I thought that might be the case. I'm using Safari and it saves a separate search history for each search box (Misplaced Pages, Google, etc.) that it recognizes as such. I'm pretty sure it's an all or none history saver, no site-by-site and no selective editing within any site. ] 23:27, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

	== GPS Articles ==

	This is more a suggestion for a global feature than a question.

	Add a WIKI element for latitude/longitude and range that is searchable, so articles that have a proper 'location' to reference can be found by location.

	In other words, historical things have a time ''and'' a place. Many articles about things in the world also have a place in the world where those things can be found.

	A query based on a GPS receiver could then type in a location and specify a range for the search and find articles about things of interest near that place on the Earth, and conversely when reading an article that contains such a GPS location, could pull up a map with that place/thing centered on it.

	So when planning a trip, you could find points of interest on the way, and when doing a school report about something in history or of interest near your school or community, a lot of candidates can be trivially found from a map.

	Some additional notation might be added to the location, such as the type of reference (local history, regional history, national history, global history, wildlife habitat, etc.)

	It could be something like , and an article might make more than one such reference to cover one or more regions with what are essentially circles on a map. A search engine (such as google) could then spot those references as they're finally formatted.

	A java applet with a world map could allow trivial poking in of locations to some sloppy accuracy, while people who are more precise can go out and take a GPS reading and type the data in to the nearest few feet.

	::Please remember to sign your comments (use four tildes <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> to add your name and date). I could be wrong, but I believe you should post feature requests on . I have linked to the section where you can add your request. --] 00:32, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

	:::I believe there has been some discussion of this; see ] and ]. ]\<sup>]</sup>]] 15:58, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

	== Mailing list ==

	Tim Starling is saying he will remove me from the Misplaced Pages mailing list, but I don't understand on what grounds the basis for this is. Is there anything I can do to get an explaination for his actions please? Thanks, --] 21:37, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
	:I would head over to ]'s talk page and politely ask him why he's doing it. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 22:05, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)

	== Question regarding Pesach ==

	I have been commissioned to write an article about the Passover Seder. My question is based on some beliefs, how is Jesus the fulfillment of the Jewish festivals? Thank you.

	:''Take a look at: ] and ].'' Can anyone else add something to this? ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 09:08, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)

	== Misplaced Pages in Vietnamese page ==

	I visited Misplaced Pages in Vietnamese page, it does not display in proper Vietnamese, it has a lots of squares in places of letters .
	Q: How do I set my PC to view this page in correct Vietnamese ?
	tro_te@yahoo.com

	:You need to install some ] fonts (]s) that include Vietnamese characters; putting turns up plenty of promising looking leads. - ] 17:02, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

	== Simpsons character starting with the letter "Y" ==

	A friend of mine was asked in a crossword puzzle "Simpsons character starting with "Y" " this had me stumped, could anyone help me with this problem, please email me at v8_freaq@yahoo.com.au, i am unsure if i can get back to this site, my bookmarking deletes sites on me :-(

	:A quick search of Misplaced Pages would have turned up ], but I didn't spot any Y's on a quick glance -- check the links at the bottom of that page for more leads. ]\<sup>]</sup>]] 16:07, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

	== Placing a 'search' field elsewhere ==

	I edit a library web page and want to put a 'search' field that will link directly to Misplaced Pages's search. Is there a way to do this?

	If this is the incorrect place to ask this, could someone please direct me to the right window?

	Thanks in advance.

	:Try this code, which is based on the code used on this site. Edit the attributes of each form control as desired—the important things are that there's at least one text field named "search", at least one submit button, and that the form action is the same URL (although you could replace "en" with the abbreviation for any other language's Misplaced Pages if you want).

	<form name="wikipedia_search_form" action="<nowiki>http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Search</nowiki>">
	<input name="search" type="text">
	<input value="Go" type="submit" name="go">
	<input value="Search Misplaced Pages" type="submit" name="fulltext">
	</form>

	:The "Go" button will take you directly to the article with the name you enter, if it exists, so you might want to remove it if you want a "true" search. The "Search" button searches all articles for the text you enter. HTH]—] 16:40, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

	== action=purge ==

	What does <tt>&action=purge</tt> do, when appended to the end of a URL? E.g.:
	http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Hello,_world&action=purge
	] —] 20:32, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

	:It's supposed to manually purge the various Misplaced Pages-side caches of various things. It's generally only used to ensure the main page is updated when one of its templates is changed. -- ]\|] 20:48, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
	Thanks.] —] 20:57, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

	:More generally, off the top of my head, there are 3 situations where a manual purge is necessary, all of which can be considered bugs in the way the template code works:
	:# a template "transcluded" by the page transcludes a further template, and that template has been changed (])
	:# a template transcluded by the page has been changed, but is not in the Template: namespace (])
	:# the page uses variables like <nowiki>{{CURRENTDAY}}</nowiki> in certain ways (I'm not sure about this one, but I think it's still an issue in some cases)
	:The main page suffers from #2 (it uses templates stored in the Misplaced Pages namespace) and possibly #3. - ] 23:04, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
	:PS: The title of this section seems to have broken the auto-summary feature!

	== How to edit signature ==

	How do you edit your signature that appears with four tildes? ] 00:12, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

	: You can modify the nickname field in ] to your liking. See ] and ] for a bit more. --] \| ] 00:25, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

	== Odd image change ==

	A while back I found an image of General ] on the French Wikipdeia (see for image. I added this image to the English language version and then got on with my life. However, I now note that the image on the English language Boulanger page is not the image I added and the page history does not show the one edit to the article since changing the image. Does anyone know what has happened here (eg. someone else has saved an image as Boulanger.jpg which has automatically replaced my image)? --] 02:14, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
	*The image you submitted is still intact. The '''link in the article''' has just been replaced with that of an image on the English wikipedia. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 08:07, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

	== PlanetMath ==

	I am getting a Proxy Error for PlanetMath. Has it been removed?

	:Trying to access ] works for me. If you mean the actual web site, we don't really have anything to do with them. -- ]\|] 00:41, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

	== Why aren't thumbnails being generated? ==

	I'm posting an article on a newly-created wiki. The owner has just turned on image uploading. However, thumbnails are not working. The image box appears, but instead of a thumbnail inside, there is only a link. The link leads to the proper image. This is the code I'm using:
	<nowiki>]</nowiki>

	What does the owner of the wiki need to enable in order to get thumbnails to display properly?

	*Can you provide a link to this wiki? My guess would be that the feature is partially disabled. Is the picture displayed if you removed the "thumb" part of the coding? ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 12:29, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)

	== Disputing_vote_exclusion ==

	Please see ]. I am concerned that some will be unfairly excluded from the current arbiter election. ] ] ]]] 14:23, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

	== Who has the right to delete text? ==

	Today, 4 December 2004, 14.44 GMT, the article "Amnesia" on Misplaced Pages ends with:

	: My friend has it and it is sort of scary but i now wwhen the time is right it will be ok i just now it she is getting it back peice by peice but i was so nice to her does that mean she will turn back to the way she was before and if so what will happen to me and her now that shes better will i get upset like today i like her so much i don't now what to do

	It seems this should not be in a Misplaced Pages article. I wrote about it in the "discussion" side of the page, but should I have deleted the text? Should I have put it in a <!-- and --> tag? Could the Misplaced Pages documentation be made more clear about what to do in such a case? I did look in the documentation, so if such guidelines are there, they may not be easy enough to find.

	Just be bold and delete it! If somebody thinks you were wrong, they will revert it or say so. --] 14:53, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
	: I would also lend my support to deleting that particular text or editing it to make it NPOV. Something like: "When a person suffers from amnesia for a long time, the resulting apparent personality change can be disturbing to those who knew them before. If they ever recover, this in turn can have a disturbing effect as they recover memories and adopt old attitudes." But on balance the observation is probably inherently POV and not backed up by reliable observation (it's just one person's feelings) so it's probably best deleted. --]\|]]] 11:33, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

	==Help formatting large image caption==
	Hi. I added ] as an ordinary section, but really it's an extensive caption for the accompanying diagram. IMHO it would be better as a sidebar to the article, but I'm having trouble figuring out the wiki syntax for doing so. I tried just putting all the text into the image caption, but the parser doesn't seem to like the # marks (which are needed for the numerical expansion of the diagram's labels). I also tried (a bit) html-style DIV tags, but I couldn't get the formatting to work. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.-- ]

	: Well, I (sort-of) figured it out for myself. Wiki syntax doesn't work properly in image captions, but HTML syntax does. I guess it's probably frowned upon. An example (using templates, although that isn't necessary) is at ] (until someone reverts it). -- ]

	==Uploading ZIP archive==
	I'd like to upload a ZIP archive containing the image files and other stuff necessary to make a diagram (which I've already uploaded as a normal JPG). I want to do this so it can be altered by others, including translating or correcting. I tried to upload a ZIP file, but the upload program says '''".zip" is not a recommended image file format.'''. Is there a way to upload a zip, or do I have to do something horrible like rename it to a PNG and tell folks to rename it before use? -- ]

	: Damn, even that hack doesn't work, as the system notices the intrigue and complains '''The file is corrupt or has an incorrect extension. Please check the file and upload again'''. So am I out of luck? -- ]

	::The upload uses the to determine what kind of file it is (by reading the file's magic number). Changing the extension won't make a bit of difference. If you want to make it more easily editable by others, make it a PNG instead of a jpg. ] 20:41, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)

	:::I see, thanks Raul. A PNG isn't really a substitute for somone being able to edit the original structured document and the associated collateral resources. In this case all my constituent resources are, I think, uploadable (assuming it will accept SVGs) but doing so with some of the more complex cases (where there might be dozens of components) would be such an onerous task that I would probably not bother. Do you know the reason why archives (either tar or zip and its kith) are excluded? -- ]

	::::That's an easy one to guess: it's too easy to make Misplaced Pages a gathering ground for ] d00dz and their ilk if we allowed archives. (Also see ].) Misplaced Pages is not an FTP server, and I guess so far nobody's found a ZIP file of great usefulness to an encyclopedia article, so we've erred on the safe side. ] 22:05, 2004 Dec 4 (UTC)

	:::::There used to be a 2 megabyte limit to all uploads. (I discovered this by trial and error - it wasn't documented anywhere). I bitched about it on the technical mailing list, and they increased it to 5 as a result. (I'm told that on the commons it's 20). But regardless, the low limit doesn't make it terribly attractive either. ] 22:12, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)

	:::::I guess that makes sense. I can think of at least two (hacky) ways around the current check, but given that the aforementioned d00dz are mostly thirteen and won't have a tool that does it for them, the check seems to be working fine. Thanks both for enlightening me. -- ]

	== Need some help editing my user page ==

	I have no clue how to make a phrase appear directly underneath another, I tried newline, and it didn't work. Also I can't seem to link to the sandbox (or other non encyclopedia articles). 69.138.222.255 decided to use my guetsbook as a test page, so I decided to put a link to the sandbox in there.

	For example, this is what might appear: ]

	I tried this as well ], which doesn't work either.

	Thanks for the help.

	]]]

	:Try <nowiki><br></nowiki> for the line break problem. Try ] to get to the sandbox. If you want to put a friendly message on the talk page of the anon user, then try using the template <nowiki>{{test}}</nowiki>. ] \| ]]] 19:34, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)

	----
	So I need to put "wikipedia" in front of the page name to link to non encyclopedia articles?
	:The encyclopedic articles are in the "main" namespace. So if you wanted to link to ], you link to it like that. Misplaced Pages related pages are in the Misplaced Pages namespace. You link to them like this: ]. There's also a template namespace (for templates) (there's actually something like 14 of them, but only the main namespace, the template namespace, and the wikipedia namespace are of any consequence). ] 20:36, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)

	::You will likely also encounter the "Talk:" namespace (the "discussion" tab of each article) quite a lot. For more information, see ]. - ] 00:01, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

	== Stylesheet ==

	How can I change my settings so Misplaced Pages will dispay using my monobook.css stylesheet? ] 22:14, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

	:Are you using the monobook skin? If not, change your preferences. If you are, then do a good solid reload, possibly with a purge of your browser's cache. -- ]\|] 23:19, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

	::For how to do that, please see ]. Note that the message displayed above the CSS page is ''incorrect''; just clicking "reload" will ''not'' bypass your cache in Mozilla. ], as explained at ]; thank you.] - ] 23:57, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

	== WikiHiero ==

	Is there a guide to all the symbols used in ], including what each one represents? --]<font id="venus">]</font>]] 04:17, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
	*Meta lists all the hiero's you can use, but if you want to know what they mean you'll have to go outside the wiki. There's a "Hieroglyph Library" program somewhere on the net that lists numerous symbols and their meanings. I also recommend a book about glyphs from the British Museum, but I'd have to look up the authors or the title. Feel free to contact me if you want to know more. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 13:31, Dec 5, 2004 (UTC)

	== OSI-RM and TCP/IP question ==

	Hello,

	I have a question pertaining to the OSI-RM and the TCP/IP.

	What i intend to know is that how much do these models mirror the real world?

	in terms of applying at least one technology such as email,video conferencing,etc; to these models;how does it fit in to the model-if it does?

	Hope to learn more from Misplaced Pages,

	Bol

			== Choice of a specific value from Wikidata ==
	: Well, both are workmanlike models that have gotten the job done for two or three decades. It's not that they particularly matched the real world, rather that they forced the real world (the hardware and software that people made) to conform to them. By and large things worked out okay, with the phone network and the internet respectively built on them. But as time progresses the cracks start to show more and more. In particular:
	:* OSI is fine at the lower levels, but the distinction between the uppermost three is fairly cloudy, and most deployments just deploy three lower layers and one upper one that they call "the application layer" for want of anthing better. TCP/IP just ducks the issue by not having any upper layers.
	:* The abstraction between the layers was always something of a fairy-story, and it's getting more so with time. Web servers know more about the low control of the underlying socket than the model says they need to, and IP layer firewalls become progressively more stateful, introspecting packets at higher layers to figure out what's going on.
	:* the architecture is contorted in ways that break the rigid layering: NAT, VPNs, SSH tunnelling etc rewrite packets or magically move them around inside other packets, breaking lots of the model's assumptions
	:* more and more stuff is done in the application rather than the network stack. P2P programs and voip implement much of what they do in UDP (or just IP) themselves. HTTP has become the new lingua franca (motivated by firewalls that block everything else), with HTTP headers replacing TCP port numbers as service identifiers.
	:So the models still work, but lots of people spend lots of effort doing an end-run around them, and like all models they're a lot simpler than the real world demands. - ]

			Is there a way to chose a specific value when invoking from Wikidata? Lets say I have <nowiki>{{#property:P1843\|from=Q206998}}</nowiki> and there are multiple values for that property. How do I chose exact one< ] (]) 09:24, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
	== User Page Shortcuts ==

			:@] General advice at ]. It gets very technical but to get the "preferred" value of "heath" in your case you would need to use something like <code><nowiki>{{#invoke:WikidataIB \|getPreferredValue \|P1843 \|qid=Q206998 \|fetchwikidata=ALL \|onlysourced=false}}</nowiki></code>, using a ]. ] (]) 12:36, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
	Just out of curiosity, are we allowed to create shortcuts to our Userpage? Like how WP:HD brings you here, could I do something like U:OF? ] 16:14, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
	*Good question, my user name is quite a pain to type over and over again. I'm note sure, but I'd like to know this one as well. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 16:21, Dec 5, 2004 (UTC)
	**I'd strongly advise against doing this: non-encyclopedia content in the "main" namespace (which this would be, since there is no "U:" namespace) is quite severely frowned upon by some; the "WP:" and "WT:" shortcuts have mainly survived because they are 1) very useful (and not just for one person) and 2) long-established (inertia needs a strong consensus to overcome).
	**Besides which, you don't ''need'' to type out the name, you can just use the non-timestamped signature, as in <nowiki>~~~</nowiki>. Obviously, this doesn't apply to people like Mgm who've done weird hacks to their signature, but that's the choice one makes, I guess... - ] 19:42, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
	***When you're logged in, you should have a link at the top of the page or in your sidebar to your user page anyway -- it's only one click away, or a press of "Home" on your keyboard and then a click. Much easier than setting up a shortcut I think.... ]\<sup>]</sup>]] 22:48, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

			== Infobox image with casual outfit? ==

			Hello. I am back on the Help Desk, working on the article ], with this question:
	=="Enhance My Search" nightmare: virus, spyware, help!==
	I am battling a "Enhance My Search" nightmare on one of my home computers. It jumps up whenever you open Google or Yahoo searches, and opens a window in front of either. Whether it open in a windows or not, it adds language to your text in any apparent attempt to create links to certain words (IE "work"). None of the programs I have used so far have been able to get rid of it. It really screws up Misplaced Pages work when editing. Its hard enough to find the right text to use for WP without something being inserted in it. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. Any help would be appreciated. ] 06:36, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
	*! =) ] 22:11, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
	** If you want a clean version of IE, instead of/in addition to Firefox, and the usual suspects (AdAware, Spybot S&D) were unable to help, you might try , which should be able to get rid of practically everything, but it requires you to manually identify the offending spyware from a list of possible offenders on your machine, so it is preferable with a bit of computer knowledge. ] 18:38, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
	*Hi Vaoverland. Most results from a Google search seemed unhelpful, but try the instructions from this particular CastleCops thread and see if that helps. ] 07:44, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
	*Regarding using instead, I do not want to give up on IE explorer because I just recently started using the program (recommended by other WP users) which has turned out to be a big help with I have to overcome. I will trust advice from here which was right on target with the ieSpell program, and face with the rather complicated procedure to try to get rid of Enhance My Search. Drat! I fortunately have more than one computer, but the stronger one is the sick one (of course!). I'll update here with news on "how it goes". Thanks for all the help folks! ] 20:40, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
	**Well, I might be wrong, but I think there's a spelling extension for Firefox. --] \| ] 21:16, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)

			The current infobox image depicts the subject wearing a somewhat casual (at least for some) outfit. Will the casuality of the outfit of the infobox image affect ] nomination? Because there are no other good alternatives on Wikimedia Commons...
	] 15:39, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)'']

			Looking forward to a reply, thanks. Ramkarlo82 (] • ] • ]) 12:13, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Link to Misplaced Pages reference from keywords ==

			:I don't see anything wrong with that image. There's nothing to worry about. And, TBH, I don't think it even matters at all. ] (]\|]) 12:15, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
	I want to add a link to a Misplaced Pages entry from keywords in articles on a protal page, similar to what the Trillian3 chat client does. Do you know if there is a service available that provide such short descriptions of Misplaced Pages entries? Also, what is the best way to find out which keywords are available on Misplaced Pages, should I download the database to do that?
			:@] There is nothing in the criteria for featured articles at ] that would prevent that image being used. At present, the article is only rated as "C", so it has a long way to go. It would be standard practice to nominate it as a ] first. ] (]) 12:20, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
			:images themselves at GA/FA are more judged on if the fair use rationale (also the equivalent free usage as well) is met and if there is enough/too many images and if they have alttext. It's rarely a case of how nice the image is. '''] <sup>(] • ])</sup>''' 14:51, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

			== Where can I find data on the circulation and citation rates of these journals? ==
	==Sending Email==

			Hello everyone, where can I find data on circulation and citation rates of journals from ? ] (]) 12:21, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
	Other users have sent me emails, but I don't see an option to send emails to any user on their talk pages, even though my email is listed in preferences. Also, can other users (or sysop) see my email or it remains hidden to them? ] 01:04, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

			:It looks like you're looking for assistance for something not directly related to Misplaced Pages, so this isn't an appropriate question for the Misplaced Pages Helpdesk. However the ] may be able to assist. ] ] 05:59, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
	:The "E-mail this user" option appears in the toolbox. If you're using the default Monobook skin, it'll appear on the left side between the "User contributions" link and "Upload file". Other users cannot see your email address, unless you use the email feature to send them an email first. Misplaced Pages's developers have low-level access to the database, and could therefore see your email address, but there's only a small number of them. -- ]\|] 01:32, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
			::Thank you! --] (]) 09:58, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

	== ~~Print~~ ~~friendly~~ ~~pages~~ ~~missing in~~ ~~the~~ ~~default~~ ~~skin~~? ==		== apostrophes in links - pipe or no? ==

			Consider the sentence {{tpq\|the plot was influenced by H. P. Lovecraft's work.}} On ] it was originally linked as {{tpq\|<nowiki>]'s</nowiki>}} and I recently changed it to {{tpq\|<nowiki>]</nowiki>}} in order to encompass the {{tpq\|'s}} into the link, as I think the entire word should be linked, rather than leave unsightly (IMO) hanging non-linked text on the end of a bluelink.
	There is no "Printable page" link on any pages when using the default skin (MonoBook). I discovered quite by accident that changing the skin to Classic or CologneBlue in user preferences causes the "Printable page" option to appear in all pages. --] 23:19, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

			User ] reverted, saying that this shouldn't be done, the apostrophe is not to be linked. I've looked in as many MOS and Help articles as I can, and this doesn't seem to be covered. Plenty of pipe help, but nothing that covers apostrophes being included in a link or not. Both our arguments are based on the same premise - Rhain believes the link to be better and simpler to directly link to "H. P. Lovecraft" which is simpler from a source point of view, but I think it's better to pipe and make the visual aspect better for the reader, as covered by ] - {{tpq\|Use piping to fit link text into prose}}. I think that precedent has been set for appending text to the link in that Wiki already does this - appending any regular text onto the end of a link automatically bluelinks the entire ]s text even though the link is for ] singular, just with an "s" on the end. This doesn't work for apostrophes, so a manual method can be used instead. ] (]) 13:57, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
	Why doesn't the default skin have this?

			To clarify - should it be needed - I think the sentence "the ]s were ]'s" is better presented as "the ]s were ]" for the reader. ] (]) 14:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
	* It's very non-obvious that you have to change skins to get this functionality.
			:] says {{tq\|'''Plurals and other derived names.''' {{xt\|<code><nowiki>]s</nowiki></code>}} displays as {{xt\|]s}}, and this is simpler and clearer than {{xt\|<code><nowiki>]</nowiki></code>}}. Similarly: {{xt\|<code><nowiki>]ing</nowiki></code>}}, {{xt\|<code><nowiki>]ed</nowiki></code>}}, {{xt\|<code><nowiki>]dest</nowiki></code>}}. Some characters do not work after the link; see ] for more details.}} Possessive is similar to plural. Its link to ] includes a possessive example, and the '''{{'}}s''' is outside of the wikilink brackets. ] ] 15:39, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
	* Users without an account can't change it, so they are deprived of this.
			::I'd missed the possessive example in ], but ironically Rhain has already noted in his arguments that ''Help:Link'' is only a guideline, not a policy. ] (]) 16:40, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
	* The default skin is quite nice, I'd like to be able to use it and still have access to print-friendly pages.
			:::] itself is a guideline, not a policy. ] ] 17:13, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
			:If there are no clear policy, it would be left to editors' own discretion. In this case, it might be better to ditch 's and use a different wording, something like {{tpq\|"the plot was influenced by the work of H. P. Lovecraft."}} ] (]) 15:48, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
			::I think I prefer this option, but I also still believe (and I've stated this on the talk page) that in the absence of MOS policy, each editor should be free to pursue their own interpretation, so long as it doesn't become disruptive or tendentious. ] (]) 16:42, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::But isn't you changing <q><nowiki>]</nowiki>'s</q> to <q><nowiki>]</nowiki></q> a case of you overriding the previous editor's "own interpretation"? ] ] 17:16, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::Yes, but that's true of pretty much any change and revert for the history of an article. The defining factor in that case would be how recent are the changes - in this case the previous editor's "own interpretation" was made in 2015 , so I'm hardly edit-warring on that count. If you want to go down that route, then isn't Rhain just as guilty of overriding my "own interpretation"? This is the problem when there is no clear MOS. Rhain has said that he thinks it unnecessary complication - so my proposal still stands that why doesn't he just not get involved? ] (]) 20:05, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::I know, which is why I said "might be better", it's a personal suggestion in case a consensus can not be reached. ] (]) 17:34, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
			:I tend to think it's just better to reword to avoid such an issue. "The cheese was owned by Richard Cheese" etc. '''] <sup>(] • ])</sup>''' 14:53, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

			== question re requests for templates at ] ==

			hi. is there anyone here who watches the requests at ]? i have a template for a wikiproject, which i would like to modify. i appreciate any help. pls ping me if you reply. thanks! ] (]) 15:24, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
	:Nevermind, figured it out... the MonoBook skin doesn't need a separate "Printable page" link, it has a print-friendly ] which automatically hides the sidebar and other non-relevant content when printing. --] 23:19, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

			:It would seem the best place to raise that issue would be at ], and perhaps add a note also over at ] so they're also aware of the conversation. ] ] 17:43, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
	==Can I make my own Wiki Page?==
			::well, i am nominally in charge of both the wikiproject and the task force, so they are already fully briefed. {{smiley}} ] (]) 20:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

			== I've been framed! ==
	If I belive I'm an important person :P, can I make my own Wiki document page? I have a user page but can I make my own Wiki/MyNameHere page? At this time, 'No page with that title exists' ] 23:51, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

			Glancing at my contributions list a big red '''(−4,881)''' catches my eye. What? All I remember doing to ] was capitalizing "romance languages" and "vulgar latin" in several places (which my summary reflects). I thought, did I perhaps wipe a section by accident? But that's not it, has various detailed changes that are outside my knowledge, as well as introducing at least three errors in spelling or punctuation.
	: Chances are that, like the overwhelming majority of us Wikipedians, you are not particularly notable and therefore shouldn't have an article devoted to you in the main namespace (see ]). Only a select few Wikipedians are notable enough to merit inclusion; ] (]), ] (]), and ] (]) come to mind. --] \| ] 00:53, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)
	:: Also note, that even if you are in fact important enough to warrant an entry in the Misplaced Pages, you probably shouldn't write your own autobiography. While it's not directly forbidden, it is frowned upon by many Wikipedians and not recommended. See ] for more details. Someone else will eventually make an entry for you, if you are an important or famous person. ] 01:34, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
	::: Thanks for your answers. I guess, I'll just wait for someone to write an article about me :P ] 08:00, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

			So what happened? Has this happened to you? ] (]) 22:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Is the wikipedia PHP & software open source and available for other projects? ==
			:{{ping\|Tamfang}} You probably clicked edit while viewing an old revision and made changes. All later edits are discarded when you edit an old revision. ] (]) 22:35, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
			::In the words of a more prominent American, ''D'oh!'' ] (]) 02:08, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

			:That's a weird article. It's about a language. Its only references are in the lead section, despite recommedations that a lead should summarise the rest of the article and should not normally include references. It offers no evidence that anyone has ever used the language, even in a work of fiction. ] (]) 23:01, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
	Our food coop wants to start a community written (ala Wiki) clearinghouse of information on the companies that provide foods and services to our coop, and it would be cool to be able to start with the tools you folks have already written. Is the underlying software/PHP scripts and whatever open source and available?
			::Agreed, it appears to be wholly not-GNG at this point. There does appear to be more information over at {{section link\|Pan-Romance_language\|Romance_Neolatino}} but is still entirely primary sourced, with no coverage otherwise. Should probably be put up for a redirect. ] ] 05:52, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
			:@] - you were not framed, but probably made an accident while editing. No big deal as someone else already noticed it and reverted the removed information. In the future, I would suggest always reviewing the page after editing to make sure accidents didn't happen, so that you can fix them before other people. I find that I make more of these sorts of mistakes when I edit using a mobile device. It only becomes concerning when this occurs more than once in a while, and again, if you fix it right away, then no harm is really done. ] ] 05:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
			::It'll be a warm day in Antarctica when I try editing on a mobile. ] (]) 08:56, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::{{u\|Tamfang}}, I have made over 100,000 edits from sunny California using smartphones, which are just small hand-held computers that work perfectly fine, with a little practice, for editing Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 17:40, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::That's nice. Perhaps your fingers are smaller than mine, or you find it easier to look through a keyhole. ] (]) 21:14, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

			= December 28 =
	:] is released under the ] and is available at its . Be warned that it's not the simplest thing out there, and you may want to use a less complicated Wiki engine. -- ]\|] 03:42, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

			== Random Long Misplaced Pages Talk Page ==
	== <nowiki>{{R ...}}</nowiki> ==

			Hai! :3
	Why is it that when one puts <nowiki>{{R ...}}</nowiki> at the bottom of a redirect page, the ] message stays there, whereas if one types something at the bottom, it doesn't? Is there a way to rig it so that I can type an explanation (not one of the ]<nowiki></nowiki>s) at the bottom of a page, and it'll actually appear there? (I'm thinking in particular of merging the current content of ] (minus some of the formatting) into ].)] —] 20:49, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
	*Messages like:<nowiki>{{Blah)}</nowiki> take the information from a '''template''' (in this case: <nowiki>Template:Blah</nowiki>) and insert it into the page. <nowiki>]</nowiki> is simply a link to an '''article'''. - ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 21:39, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)
	**I know that. But that doesn't answer my question, so I guess I didn't word the latter well enough. Let me try again.] —] 21:50, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
	is a redirect page. Its text is
	<nowiki>#Redirect ] {{R from misspelling}}</nowiki>
	So it is possible (at least under certain circumstances) to include text after a redirect command: one such circumstance is if that text is called by <nowiki>{{</nowiki>]<nowiki>}}</nowiki>. I wish to include text after a redirect command ''without'' calling it from ] or any other template.] —] 21:50, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
	:I decided to ask on ] also, and ] told me there that it'll work if the text (or template that calls the text) is on the same line as the redirect command. So that answers my question. Thanks for trying, though, Mgm; and thanks, sannse.] —] 21:55, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

			I wish to help with archiving talk pages. Is there a script or similar tool that can help to view pages (particularly talk pages) within a certain page length range?
	== How do I display an image from a foreign-language wikipedia? ==
	You can't - at least not directly. A link to a foreign-language wikipedia is treated as an external link, and all linked images must reside on the local Wiki server. However, if the image in question is released under the GFDL or is public domain, you can just upload it here and add the relevant license tag (remember to include the original contributor to the foreign-language wikipedia for GFDL images) -- ] ] 00:58, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

			Thanks! - ] (]) 14:39, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
	:Note that there's a special feature for images hosted on the ]. Images hosted there can be included by using the standard image syntax. If an image with a particular name does not exist on a given language, but does exist on the Commons, it will be included from the Commons. -- ]\|] 05:39, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

			:See . Other items can be found at ]. Please be aware that not all talk pages are suitable for archiving and it might not be always about the length of the page why you might want to archive. '''] <sup>(] • ])</sup>''' 14:48, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
	== How to display images from other-language wikipedias. ==
	See above -- ] ] 01:24, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

			== Why is my image making my infobox scale to cover the page? ==
	==How do I link to a headline that's also a hyperlink?==
	See http://en.wikipedia.org/Pet_skunk#Diet. There is a broken link there to the Skunk Haven section. It isn't working because the Skunk Haven headline is also a hyperlink to their external website. Can anyone help me fix it? ] 04:33, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

	:I ~~think~~ ~~you're~~ ~~going~~ to ~~have~~ to ~~take~~ the ~~external~~ ~~link~~ ~~out~~ of the ~~heading~~. -- ]\|] 05:30, 9 ~~Dec~~ ~~2004~~ (UTC)		Adding an image I uploaded to commons into the infobox is making the whole thing scale to cover the entire page. Article is ] ] (]) 20:37, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
			:It's fixed, @]. In an infobox, in the '''image''' field, just put the file name, ''not'' the <nowiki>] ] 20:42, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
	::Also linking to article sections is discouraged as someone may easily change it's name and break the link unknowingly in the editing process. ]\|<sup>]</sup>]] 11:20, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)
			::I see, much thanks! ] (]) 21:09, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 21:14, 28 December 2024

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December 24

Duplicative text on Help:Disambiguation?

Hi. I think there is a superfluous paragraph at the end of Help:Disambiguation. I added this topic to the Talk page asking about it. The automated help text told me that this particular Talk page is "not watched by many users" and suggested asking my question here. So: Is there a superfluous paragraph at the end of Help:Disambiguation? If the last two paragraphs say the same thing, one should be eliminated; if not, one or both should be rewritten to clarify the point each is trying to make. Larrydberg (talk) 00:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

@Larrydberg: I guess Waddie96 meant to reformulate the existing paragraph in but forgot to remove the old version. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:09, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

I believe so. Apologies. I fixed the issue. waddie96 ★ (talk) 07:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Assistance Required for Published Article Not Going Live

Dear Misplaced Pages Help Desk,

I hope this message finds you well. I published an article on India Semiconductor Mission (username - Display Ecosystem) in November, and it has not gone live yet. The article draft can be found at the following link:https://en.wikipedia.org/User:DisplayEcosystem

I would like to understand the status of this article and whether there are any additional steps or issues preventing it from being moved to the live Misplaced Pages space. Your guidance on resolving this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your time and assistance.

Best regards, Sonali Jain DisplayEcosystem (talk) 05:26, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

It's because all of that content is on your Userpage. If you want to publish it completely then you should move it to a new space. However, I'd move that content to a draft and continue working on it since it still doesn't look ready to me. Should I move it to a draft so you can continue working on it? Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 05:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Please guide me on further steps to make it live. It would be really great if you could provide me with your valuable feedbacks on page and it's content. DisplayEcosystem (talk) 05:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes sure, you can move it to draft so that I can publish it again. DisplayEcosystem (talk) 05:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Sure, I'll create a draft for you but please keep working on the content to make it better and then publish it. Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 05:39, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

What do you want the title to be? Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 05:40, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

The article is all about "India Semiconductor Mission". DisplayEcosystem (talk) 05:42, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

I have left a message on your talk page. If you are employed at India Semiconductor Mission, you are considered a paid editor and should make a paid contribution disclosure as explained in the message. Please also see Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest. Helpful Raccoon (talk) 05:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

I would like to clarify that I am not employed at India Semiconductor Mission. This page is being created for a government organization, which operates under the Ministry. Therefore, it should not be considered as a paid contribution.

I kindly request your guidance on any further enhancements or adjustments required to meet Misplaced Pages's standards. DisplayEcosystem (talk) 06:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

You would also be a paid editor if you are employed or paid by the Ministry. For advice on your draft, it currently has no sources apart from external links. Misplaced Pages does not care about what India Semiconductor Mission or the Ministry says about itself. You need to find reliable sources that are independent of India Semiconductor Mission and base the article on what those sources say. If no such sources can be found, the organization probably does not satisfy Misplaced Pages's notability criteria. You can also read Help:Your first article for further advice. Helpful Raccoon (talk) 06:22, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, @DisplayEcosystem.

Editors who try to create an article before they have spent significant time learning how Misplaced Pages works often have a disappointing and frustrating task, because they have no idea what it takes to create a Misplaced Pages article. It's like trying to build a house when you have no knowledge of surveying, building, plumbing, electrical installation, etc. And it's even harder when you have a conflict of interest.

My earnest advice to new editors is to not even think about trying to create an article until you have spent several weeks - at least - learning about how Misplaced Pages works by making improvements to existing articles. Once you have understood core policies such as verifiability, neutral point of view, reliable, independent sources, and notability, and experienced how we handle disagreements with other editors (the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle), then you might be ready to read your first article carefully, and try creating a draft.

Be aware that Misplaced Pages is basically not interested at all in what you know (whoever you are) or in what the subject of the article (or their associates) say or want to say. A Misplaced Pages article should be a summary of what people wholly unconnected with the subject have chosen to publish about the subject, and very little else. First find your sources (and make sure they are independent: see WP:42) then forget everything you know about the subject, and write a summary of what those sources say. ColinFine (talk) 12:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm having problem with loging in😭😭😭😭😭😭

I'm having problem with loging in😭😭😭😭😭😭 41.122.130.103 (talk) 17:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

What happens when you use Special:Login? ''']''' (talk • contribs) 17:55, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Flag of Syria

How can I change current Syrian flag in the page List of songs recorded by Zecchino d'Oro with the 1980-2024 version? 176.200.157.77 (talk) 17:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

This discussion might be helpful: Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)#Syrian_flag Schazjmd (talk) 17:33, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

George Washington

It states in the Misplaced Pages, George Washington, political party - independent. I believe that to be incorrect and he was a member of the Whig. 2601:3C4:17C:3F0:64CC:8BE9:5A55:2B9E (talk) 19:58, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

If you wish to change it, you will need to provide a reliable source backing up your claim. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 20:01, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

In my knowledge he was never member of any political party.

About "George Washington" , I verified if my knowledge were wrong and I confirm he was never member of a political party accorded to searches done. Anatole-berthe (talk) 21:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

George Washington was not a member of a political party, and he was opposed to the very idea of political parties, as he explained in George Washington's Farewell Address in 1796. His thoughts on that matter have been widely ignored ever since, and Abraham Lincoln, for example, was heavily involved in party politics. Cullen328 (talk) 04:30, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Cullen328 for the details about the matter. I did knew nothing about this letter.

Anatole-berthe (talk) 04:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Ahir cast surname add

Ahir cast 1 gujrati sAhirurname add chhaida છૈડા 2409:4041:E4E:24F8:0:0:9D09:8B08 (talk) 21:54, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

This forum is only about "Misplaced Pages in English language" and not "Misplaced Pages in another language". Anatole-berthe (talk) 22:27, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Are you asking to add something to Ahir or to Ahir clans? If so, the talk page of the relevant article is the best place to ask. But be aware that unless a reliable published source is found, information may not be added to Misplaced Pages articles. ColinFine (talk) 23:03, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

2600:1700:55B0:810:5C4F:E631:B09C:2AEE (talk) 22:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Citing YouTube video is not allowed, what can I do?

Hello all!

I was revising a page about a TV drama and citing YouTube interviews of the actors which are rejected by the system. I ended up mentioning the year and program of the interviews, which got entirely removed by Rastinition, which I believe should be Misplaced Pages.

What can I do? Not sure if it is a piece of information that will make a difference, the language I am amending is traditional Chinese. Cwcw12 (talk) 23:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

If you are speaking about "Misplaced Pages in Chinese language". You're not on the right forum.

This is the forum for "Misplaced Pages in English".

The right forum is the next if you're talking about Misplaced Pages in Chinese language : https://zh.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:%E4%BA%92%E5%8A%A9%E5%AE%A2%E6%A0%88/%E6%B1%82%E5%8A%A9 Anatole-berthe (talk) 23:10, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

For the curious, these percent escaped unicode glyphs resolve to zh:維基百科:互助客棧/求助. This kind of inscrutable alphahexanumeric line noise is what is displayed in Firefox when attempting to see which Chinese Misplaced Pages page is being pointed to by {{ill}}. Folly Mox (talk) 13:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

On the English Misplaced Pages, the vast majority of YouTube videos are not acceptable as references. But not all are excluded. A YouTube video on the official channel of an established news outlet accepted as a reliable source is also presumed reliable. Cullen328 (talk) 04:42, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

December 25

Wrong information about Roman emperor Augustus

If Augustus was born in 63BC and died in AD14 he was 51 years old when he died. How come your Misplaced Pages lists his age 74 when he died. Please correct the information about Augustus’s age when he died in AD 14. 173.71.121.220 (talk) 00:53, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

You can make the change yourself and provide proper, reliable source to back up your claim. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 01:00, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Where does it say 74? Augustus correctly says 75. BC means Before Christ. AD meand Anno Domini which is after Christ. There was no year 0 and he didn't reach his birthday in his year of death so he was 63-1+14-1 = 75. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Adding crypto address for donations

Why dont you add crypto donations? Its probable easier for peoplr to transfer from digital wallet 184.98.196.150 (talk) 01:12, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

We don't have anything to do with the donation process; please offer your suggestions to donate@wikimedia.org. 331dot (talk) 01:14, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Adding to what 331dot said above, crypto donations were stopped following this global RfC, which you should read before making suggestions. ''']''' (talk • contribs) 04:11, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Pending Changes duration

Typically how long is Pending Changes turned on for individual articles? I ask because, assuming I'm interpreting the log correctly, Pending Changes has been turned on for the Henry David Thoreau article since 2017. Rockfang (talk) 07:02, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

It seems that Pending Changes status won't expired after a period of time. According to WP:PC, editors can make request for unprotection to remove PC. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 16:00, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

How do I change my monthly donation

How do I change my monthly donation 208.84.130.4 (talk) 10:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

See donate:Cancel or change recurring giving. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:43, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Nigel Pegram actor. When Google searching for my name, it says that I died. Trust me, I'm still happily alive. What can I do to rectify the situation please?

Nigel Pegram actor. When Google searching for my name, it says that I died. Trust me, I'm still happily alive. What can I do to rectify the situation please? Nigelpegram (talk) 13:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

If you are Nigel Pegram here, then fortunately you are still alive on Misplaced Pages. Unfortunately Misplaced Pages has no control over what external websites and search engines say, and you would have to find a way of contacting them directly.--♦IanMacM♦ 13:07, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

(ec) The article about you(Nigel Pegram) currently indicates you are alive, though in November it was edited to say you had died(this edit, even providing a source, though I know little about it). This was removed, but perhaps Google has not indexed this change.

We can't help you with issues surrounding Google searches; you would need to contact Google or the sources that indicate you are deceased to ask them to issue corrections. 331dot (talk) 13:11, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

This Google search infobox might give the impression that Misplaced Pages is saying that Nigel Pegram died on 28 October 2024. Not sure where they found this, but it wasn't the current version of the Misplaced Pages article.--♦IanMacM♦ 13:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
They could have found it in the article version of 9 November added by an editor (Rolando Williams) who was maliciously altering various dates in biographies and has now been blocked. Apologies to @Nigelpegram and please note that the advice at WP:ASFAQ says that this is one type of vandalism you can immediately revert yourself. However, please make other suggestions for changes to the article on its Talk Page. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:59, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Dear Michael, Thank you so much for your quick reply and for explaining the situation.

Happy Christmas!

Best wishes

Nigel (Pegram) Nigelpegram (talk) 14:28, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

@Nigelpegram: The alleged death was copied from Misplaced Pages to Nigel Pegram (Q106264634) at our sister project Wikidata on 11 November 2024. It was removed from Misplaced Pages 16 November but not from Wikidata. I have now removed it. Google does not reveal sources for their data fields, only the text snippet at the start if it's from Misplaced Pages, so I cannot say whether it will have an effect later. Here is a stock reply for similar posts:

Are you by any chance referring to a photo or text shown to the right of a Google search? Google's Knowledge Graph uses a wide variety of sources. There may be a text paragraph ending with "Misplaced Pages" to indicate that particular text was copied from Misplaced Pages. An image and other text before or after the Misplaced Pages excerpt may be from sources completely unrelated to Misplaced Pages. We have no control over how Google presents our information, but Google's Knowledge Graph has a "Feedback" link where anyone can mark a field as wrong. The same feedback facility is also provided on Bing and some other search engines. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:02, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

False historical information

I can’t seem to get any of the false historical information posted on this site to be removed / updated.

How can we get this addressed in a quick manner? 108.41.112.201 (talk) 16:43, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

If you've tried to remove false information by being bold and doing it yourself, remember to either include a source or remove information without a source. Misplaced Pages works on verifiability, not truth - if a reliable source reports on an untrue fact, Misplaced Pages will host it as if it was true in most cases. Enough factual information is published to where running this way is more efficient than being a platform of original research. Departure– (talk) 16:48, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Generally, the best way to address an inaccuracy in an article is to start on the article's talk page. If the "inaccuracy" is cited to a reliable source, you'd need to provide other reliable sources that counter it. Schazjmd (talk) 16:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

It's hard to give you a clear answer when you haven't told us what article you were trying to edit. But generally, if you tried to remove something and got reverted, this is for one of three reasons:

. You removed something without explaining why in the edit summary, and an editor patrolling for vandalism mistook an unexplained removal for vandalism.
. You removed information which was, or appeared to be, verified by a reliable source. You will need to address this, either by showing that the source does not verify the information or is not reliable; or by adducing other reliable sources which support your version.
. You are working in a contentious topic, where different people have different views about what information is genuine and what is false.

Whichever of these cases applies, you should open a discussion on the article's talk page, making sure to ping the editor(s) who reverted your edits - you can find who they were by looking at the article's history. ColinFine (talk) 20:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Templates to cite journals, books, etc?

~~Template:Cite IUCN~~ Template:Make cite IUCN is fantastic. You basically just copy-paste unformatted information (author name, title, publisher, etc) and it formats them for you. Do we not have templates that can cite other sources? A template that cites journal articles would be particularly helpful. They often have numerous authors and, depending on the topic, dozens may need to be cited to write one complete article. Surtsicna (talk) 21:07, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

There is a Template:Cite journal specifically for citing journal articles. You can find some more citation templates at Template:Citation Style documentation/cs1. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 22:08, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

I remember coming across Template:London Gazette the other day and it functions somewhat similar to a citation template, maybe you can also find some templates you want at Category:Specific-source templates. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 22:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, Tutwakhamoe, I meant Template:Make cite IUCN. That one fills the parameters automatically. Surtsicna (talk) 22:16, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

There's always https://citer.toolforge.org/ for URLs, ISBNs, DOIs, PMID, PMCID, and OCLC. Schazjmd (talk) 22:18, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Schazjmd... that does exactly the trick! Wonderful. Thanks <3 Surtsicna (talk) 00:27, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

@Surtsicna There is also the WP:Citation expander, which you can install so that it is available as part of the source editor. It does an excellent job on digital object identifiers in particular, with slightly less white space than the toolforge tool gives. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:03, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Question about an edit from 2 years ago

So i was digging around and i realized that 2 years ago someone(that is currently blocked from wikipedia) edited the article about "Rap God", particularly in the critical reception part where it went from "the song recieved critical acclaim" to "the song received mixed reviews" even tho it currently doesnt display it due to this being so long ago.

before: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Rap_God&oldid=1072529929

after: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Rap_God&oldid=1075188916

Im pretty new to editing and contributing so i apologise, but what ended up changing because it seems that it was still acclaimed/praised by critics?(Kory Grow from Rolling Stone, Jim Farber from Daily New, and Nick Hill from Contact Music among others) Elijahjb306 (talk) 23:40, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Elijahjb306. Since the editor who changed it is blocked, we can't ask why they made that edit, but neither wording ("critical acclaim" or "mixed reviews") is in the article now. The reception section simply summarizes the reviews and lets the reader make up their own minds. Schazjmd (talk) 00:08, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Ah I see that makes sense, noted. I was just wondering so thank you for the response Elijahjb306 (talk) 09:39, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

December 26

Newly created article with another title

I recently created Flamingo Boy, a 2018 British children's novel written by Michael Morpurgo. A year later it was published in the states by Macmillan Publishing under the title The Day the World Stopped Turning, which is currently a redirect to Music Played by Humans, due to a single on that album having that name. However, the top search result from Google for "The Day the World Stopped Turning" is from Amazon books (Michael Morpurgo), and the fourth and fifth search results on the first page from Google are from Macmillan Publishing and GoodReads for the book. The single from the album is listed as the eight search result. I wanted to create a redirect for the American book title, but I don't just want to hijack that redirect page. Any advice on what to do, if anything, or should I just not worry about it. Thanks. Isaidnoway (talk) 10:00, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

@Isaidnoway The usual procedure in such cases would be to turn the redirect page into a Misplaced Pages:Disambiguation page. Read that page for instructions or come back here if you need more help. Shantavira| 10:09, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Definitely looks ripe for a DAB. There is also a song by that name on Stackridge's A Victory for Common Sense, a song by that name by Philip Springer as recorded on Johnny Hartman's The Voice That Is!, and a book by Michael Morpurgo. DMacks (talk) 17:58, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

I DABified it. DMacks (talk) 18:12, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Unknown parameter

Sabancaya has an unknown parameter "|1=" somewhere but I can't find it. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:42, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

I've made a change. How's that? Lee Vilenski 11:45, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Thx. Source formatting can make my eyes glaze over. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:49, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

No problem. |1= just means that there is a null parameter. Either |text or ||. Easy to miss. Lee Vilenski 12:10, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Image and navbox

The topmost image in the Donald Trump article on the left is of him in his military academy jacket from youth on the left side, however, the image is printing out in a section below the one where it has been edited into the article. This seems to be a navbox/infobox conflict issue, but it seems that there should be a way to cause the image to appear where it is intended to be placed during regular editing. How does one keep the image in place in spite of apparent navbox conflicts? ErnestKrause (talk) 15:51, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

@ErnestKrause: I used Template:Stack. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:26, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

It worked like a charm. Nice editing. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:00, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't understand the point of MOS:CITELEAD

The reason why I don't understand the point of MOS:CITELEAD, is because it's supposed to act as a guideline to not use citations in the lead if the information they would like to source is not mentioned in the body. It says on the article, "Because the lead usually repeats information that is in the body, editors should balance the desire to avoid redundant citations in the lead with the desire to aid readers in locating sources for challengeable material." What I see is editors, including myself (I have just realised as going over the guideline), they put into the lead what was not mentioned in the body. For example, copyediting from another article and or from an infobox if on the page. Most editors don't know this and just add whatever. We all want editors to follow Misplaced Pages's guidelines, right? So maybe the administrators should maybe do something or someone of a higher rank should do something about this guideline? FeistyRooster (talk) 22:50, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Your first sentence seems to be backwards: if the source is not mentioned in the body , it should be cited in the lead. But as I understand it, there should not normally be any information in the lead which is not in the body (forther up the same page: "Apart from basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article.")

As to your last sentence: there is no "someone of a higher rank", and admins as admins have no part in setting policy (though they may be called upon to perform administrative tasks like closing discussion). If you want to open a discussion, you're as qualified to do so as anybody - either at the talk page of the relevant guideline, or at one of the departments of the village pump. ColinFine (talk) 23:04, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks FeistyRooster (talk) 23:15, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

December 27

Citation format for interviews - citing interviewer

Hi all -- quick question about citation/quote formatting. Appreciate any insights!

I'm using an interview of a subject of an article (Sam Gilliam) as a citation for a fact about an exhibition Gilliam held in New York in 1968. I am not using one of Gilliam's answers in the interview as the source for this detail, but rather one of the interviewer's statements. The interviewer gives details about a work from that 1968 exhibition. Is there a way to properly format an interview citation to show that I'm citing the interviewer rather than the subject, and is it in general OK to use an interview source like this, with the interviewer as the actual source of the information? And relatedly, would it be "correct" to include a bracketed statement of who is speaking if I were to include a quote from the source in the citation? Here's what I'm looking to cite/how I think it would be formatted (quote would probably be shorter), as both a long citation and harvp with a quote:

-Section of article -

Detail about the exhibition

-Citations-

Gilliam (2019), : "Another situation you responded to with interesting results was your first one-person show in New York at the Byron Gallery, in 1968. You were presented with a 30 foot wall, so you decided to make a 30 foot painting with the playful title Sock-It-To-Me. Shockingly, the gallerist turned the lights off at the opening because he was angry at your thinking-on-your feet gesture of installing what he deemed to be unsaleable work."

-References-

Gilliam, Sam (September 2019). "Sam Gilliam with Tom McGlynn". The Brooklyn Rail (Interview). Interviewed by McGlynn, Tom. OCLC 49309197. Archived from the original on 26 September 2023. Retrieved 11 February 2024.

(I did some major clean-up on the Sam Gilliam article a while back before I really understood the nuances of citing interviews, doing some patching now to add in secondary sources to the few places where I accidentally used an interview as a sole citation.) 19h00s (talk) 02:53, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Small question

How do I see my edit count to articles only? Is there a script for this? TNM101 (chat) 06:37, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

@TNM101 there's a simpler way: go to Special:Contributions/TNM101, expand the "Search for contributions" menu, and select the "(article)" namespace. ''']''' (talk • contribs) 06:43, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Alright thanks a lot TNM101 (chat) 06:53, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I have done as you said, but it seems like it doesn't show the number of edits, which is what I need TNM101 (chat) 07:23, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Go to Special:Contributions/TNM101, scroll down to the bottom, and select "Edit count" from the links there. Then scroll down to the "Namespace Totals". -- John of Reading (talk) 09:17, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you TNM101 (chat) 12:14, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Also, see the "namespace totals" section at for a nice pie chart of your contributions per namespace. Lee Vilenski 14:49, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Transclusion

Is there a way to transclude pages cross-wiki? Sangsangaplaz (Talk to me! I'm willing to help) 09:07, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

@Sangsangaplaz: No, that's not possible. The only exception is that pages at Misplaced Pages can pick up values from Wikidata. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:13, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Sangsangaplaz (Talk to me! I'm willing to help) 09:14, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Choice of a specific value from Wikidata

Is there a way to chose a specific value when invoking from Wikidata? Lets say I have {{#property:P1843|from=Q206998}} and there are multiple values for that property. How do I chose exact one< Juandev (talk) 09:24, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

@Juandev General advice at WP:Wikidata#Inserting_Wikidata_values_into_Wikipedia_articles. It gets very technical but to get the "preferred" value of "heath" in your case you would need to use something like {{#invoke:WikidataIB |getPreferredValue |P1843 |qid=Q206998 |fetchwikidata=ALL |onlysourced=false}}, using a Lua module. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:36, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Infobox image with casual outfit?

Hello. I am back on the Help Desk, working on the article Glaiza de Castro, with this question:

The current infobox image depicts the subject wearing a somewhat casual (at least for some) outfit. Will the casuality of the outfit of the infobox image affect FA nomination? Because there are no other good alternatives on Wikimedia Commons...

Looking forward to a reply, thanks. Ramkarlo82 (V • T • C) 12:13, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with that image. There's nothing to worry about. And, TBH, I don't think it even matters at all. Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 12:15, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

@Ramkarlo82 There is nothing in the criteria for featured articles at WP:FACR that would prevent that image being used. At present, the article is only rated as "C", so it has a long way to go. It would be standard practice to nominate it as a good article first. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:20, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

images themselves at GA/FA are more judged on if the fair use rationale (also the equivalent free usage as well) is met and if there is enough/too many images and if they have alttext. It's rarely a case of how nice the image is. Lee Vilenski 14:51, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Where can I find data on the circulation and citation rates of these journals?

Hello everyone, where can I find data on circulation and citation rates of journals from this list? Vyacheslav84 (talk) 12:21, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

It looks like you're looking for assistance for something not directly related to Misplaced Pages, so this isn't an appropriate question for the Misplaced Pages Helpdesk. However the Misplaced Pages:Reference desk may be able to assist. TiggerJay (talk) 05:59, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! --Vyacheslav84 (talk) 09:58, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

apostrophes in links - pipe or no?

Consider the sentence the plot was influenced by H. P. Lovecraft's work. On The Staff of Karnath it was originally linked as ]'s and I recently changed it to ] in order to encompass the 's into the link, as I think the entire word should be linked, rather than leave unsightly (IMO) hanging non-linked text on the end of a bluelink.

User Rhain reverted, saying that this shouldn't be done, the apostrophe is not to be linked. I've looked in as many MOS and Help articles as I can, and this doesn't seem to be covered. Plenty of pipe help, but nothing that covers apostrophes being included in a link or not. Both our arguments are based on the same premise - Rhain believes the link to be better and simpler to directly link to "H. P. Lovecraft" which is simpler from a source point of view, but I think it's better to pipe and make the visual aspect better for the reader, as covered by Misplaced Pages:Linking dos and don'ts - Use piping to fit link text into prose. I think that precedent has been set for appending text to the link in that Wiki already does this - appending any regular text onto the end of a link automatically bluelinks the entire cheeses text even though the link is for cheese singular, just with an "s" on the end. This doesn't work for apostrophes, so a manual method can be used instead. Chaheel Riens (talk) 13:57, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

To clarify - should it be needed - I think the sentence "the cheeses were Richard Cheese's" is better presented as "the cheeses were Richard Cheese's" for the reader. Chaheel Riens (talk) 14:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

MOS:PIPESTYLE says Plurals and other derived names. ]s displays as apples, and this is simpler and clearer than ]. Similarly: ]ing, ]ed, ]dest. Some characters do not work after the link; see Help:Link for more details. Possessive is similar to plural. Its link to H:WIKILINK includes a possessive example, and the 's is outside of the wikilink brackets. Schazjmd (talk) 15:39, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I'd missed the possessive example in H:WIKILINK, but ironically Rhain has already noted in his arguments that Help:Link is only a guideline, not a policy. Chaheel Riens (talk) 16:40, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

WP:MOS itself is a guideline, not a policy. Schazjmd (talk) 17:13, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

If there are no clear policy, it would be left to editors' own discretion. In this case, it might be better to ditch 's and use a different wording, something like "the plot was influenced by the work of H. P. Lovecraft." Tutwakhamoe (talk) 15:48, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I think I prefer this option, but I also still believe (and I've stated this on the talk page) that in the absence of MOS policy, each editor should be free to pursue their own interpretation, so long as it doesn't become disruptive or tendentious. Chaheel Riens (talk) 16:42, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

But isn't you changing ]'s to ] a case of you overriding the previous editor's "own interpretation"? Schazjmd (talk) 17:16, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, but that's true of pretty much any change and revert for the history of an article. The defining factor in that case would be how recent are the changes - in this case the previous editor's "own interpretation" was made in 2015 here, so I'm hardly edit-warring on that count. If you want to go down that route, then isn't Rhain just as guilty of overriding my "own interpretation"? This is the problem when there is no clear MOS. Rhain has said that he thinks it unnecessary complication - so my proposal still stands that why doesn't he just not get involved? Chaheel Riens (talk) 20:05, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I know, which is why I said "might be better", it's a personal suggestion in case a consensus can not be reached. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 17:34, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I tend to think it's just better to reword to avoid such an issue. "The cheese was owned by Richard Cheese" etc. Lee Vilenski 14:53, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

question re requests for templates at Misplaced Pages:Requested templates

hi. is there anyone here who watches the requests at Misplaced Pages:Requested templates? i have a template for a wikiproject, which i would like to modify. i appreciate any help. pls ping me if you reply. thanks! Sm8900 (talk) 15:24, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

It would seem the best place to raise that issue would be at Template talk:WikiProject History, and perhaps add a note also over at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject History/Task forces/Modern and Contemporary history task force so they're also aware of the conversation. TiggerJay (talk) 17:43, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

well, i am nominally in charge of both the wikiproject and the task force, so they are already fully briefed.

Sm8900 (talk) 20:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I've been framed!

Glancing at my contributions list a big red (−4,881) catches my eye. What? All I remember doing to Neolatino Romance was capitalizing "romance languages" and "vulgar latin" in several places (which my summary reflects). I thought, did I perhaps wipe a section by accident? But that's not it, this edit has various detailed changes that are outside my knowledge, as well as introducing at least three errors in spelling or punctuation.

So what happened? Has this happened to you? —Tamfang (talk) 22:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

@Tamfang: You probably clicked edit while viewing an old revision and made these changes. All later edits are discarded when you edit an old revision. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:35, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

In the words of a more prominent American, D'oh! —Tamfang (talk) 02:08, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

That's a weird article. It's about a language. Its only references are in the lead section, despite recommedations that a lead should summarise the rest of the article and should not normally include references. It offers no evidence that anyone has ever used the language, even in a work of fiction. Maproom (talk) 23:01, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, it appears to be wholly not-GNG at this point. There does appear to be more information over at Pan-Romance language § Romance Neolatino but is still entirely primary sourced, with no coverage otherwise. Should probably be put up for a redirect. TiggerJay (talk) 05:52, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

@Tamfang - you were not framed, but probably made an accident while editing. No big deal as someone else already noticed it and reverted the removed information. In the future, I would suggest always reviewing the page after editing to make sure accidents didn't happen, so that you can fix them before other people. I find that I make more of these sorts of mistakes when I edit using a mobile device. It only becomes concerning when this occurs more than once in a while, and again, if you fix it right away, then no harm is really done. TiggerJay (talk) 05:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

It'll be a warm day in Antarctica when I try editing on a mobile. —Tamfang (talk) 08:56, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Tamfang, I have made over 100,000 edits from sunny California using smartphones, which are just small hand-held computers that work perfectly fine, with a little practice, for editing Misplaced Pages. Cullen328 (talk) 17:40, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

That's nice. Perhaps your fingers are smaller than mine, or you find it easier to look through a keyhole. —Tamfang (talk) 21:14, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

December 28

Random Long Misplaced Pages Talk Page

Hai! :3

I wish to help with archiving talk pages. Is there a script or similar tool that can help to view pages (particularly talk pages) within a certain page length range?

Thanks! - delta (talk) 14:39, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

See this Quarry report for talk pages. Other items can be found at Special:LongPages. Please be aware that not all talk pages are suitable for archiving and it might not be always about the length of the page why you might want to archive. Lee Vilenski 14:48, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Why is my image making my infobox scale to cover the page?

Adding an image I uploaded to commons into the infobox is making the whole thing scale to cover the entire page. Article is PAM submachine gun Tylermack999 (talk) 20:37, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

It's fixed, @Tylermack999. In an infobox, in the image field, just put the file name, not the

I see, much thanks! Tylermack999 (talk) 21:09, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

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