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No! The article ] should not be merged into this article !!!! I beleive noetic is an old word, used in religious and philospohical literature long before there were astronauts or instutes of neotic sciences.] 22:01, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
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| date = October 22, 2006 | result = '''keep''' | page = Institute of Noetic Sciences
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| date2 = September 24, 2013 | result2 = '''keep''' | page2 = Institute of Noetic Sciences (2nd nomination)
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==Co-founder?==
:Seconded. The Institute of Noetic Sciences is a specific organisation devoted to the study of what many would call ] or transpersonal psychology. (The reason the designation "noetic science" (or, noetic scientist) is used is because not all individuals involved in frontier consciousness research are themselves psychologists - many are statisticians, biologists, medical doctors, physicists, etc.,.) The word ] itself is a philosophical term and merging these articles would be utterly illogical.
These sources all say ] was the founder, ''not'' the co-founder:
* Time Magazine
* BusinessWeek
* ABC News
* NY Times
*--<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — ] • ] • </span> 23:59, 7 October 2013 (UTC)


==Primary sources tag==
::The second above is not exactly correct. The mission of the Institute is "Exploring the frontiers of consciousness to advance individual, social, and global transformation." This includes parapsychology, but the Institute is interested in a broader range of topics. As just one example, from its beginning IONS has studied the role of consciousness in healing. From its early research came today's mainstream interest in mind/body medicine, the health effects of meditation, and psychoneuroimmunology. As often occurs when a previously controversial topic becomes mainstream, the origins of these concepts are forgotten. <small>&mdash;''The preceding ] comment was added by'' {{user|24.5.167.35}} (the ''ca.comcast.net anon'')
Those editors interested in upgrading the article with secondary sources so that the tag can be removed may find these books to be good resources: --<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — ] • ] • </span> 00:28, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
:You need independent sources so those would be fairly crummy to use, ] (]) 09:38, 14 October 2013 (UTC)


⚫ == Quackwatch again==
:::Does anyone have an idea why there's a neutrality tag on the article? The article seems to be a pretty straightforward description of what the Noetic Institute studies, and there doesn't seem to be any controversy here in the talk section.] 17:02, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


Quackwatch is an award winning website and is perfectly reliable for its own list, ] (]) 22:24, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
::::I can't recall whether I add the tag (which someone must have removed) but if I did, I probably meant that the sentence claiming that this organization ''uses science to explore'' yadda yadda should be neutralized, perhaps by a quotation of the mission statement. My point: it is not clear to me that mainstream scientists would uncritically agree with the implication that ''Noetic Institute'' is a ''scientific'' organization.
:Possibly. Can you elucidate? But first look at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?search=wp%3Aquackwatch&title=Special%3ASearch. Thanks. ] (]) 05:44, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
::if you question quackwatch itself, there are many reliably published sources that cover quackwatch's assessment of IONS . -- ] 12:10, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
:::Good starting points for an addition to this article. I am interested, too, in the idea that QW "is perfectly reliable for its own list." Is there a ] that applies? ] (]) 13:17, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
::::A source is reliable for the existence and integrity of its own list. We aren't commenting on the quality of the list, merely noting that quackwatch lists it. Also note that ] has consistently found that Quackwatch is fine to use but sometimes it's tone is an issue (rather than content itself). On the list of the archive, I'd suggest having a look at some of the RSN threads. ] (]) 21:30, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
:::::Yes, Quackwatch would be a reliable source for what appears in Quackwatch, but the two follow up questions are: 1) are Quackwatch's opinions /analysis generally considered reliable? and 2) is Quackwatch's opinion about the subject an opinion of note that should be included? Given that other reliable sources have covered Quackwatch's opinion, I would say the answer to 2) is: yes. And apparently the RS notice board has generally stated that the answer to 1) is also yes.-- ] 21:37, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
::::::] may or may not apply, but somebody could try adding something about the Quackwatch listing and see if it sticks. ] (]) 03:21, 16 October 2013 (UTC)


== Wernher von Braun ==
::::Also: ''ca.comcast.net anon'', not everyone would agree with your claim that the topics you mentioned are entirely "mainstream".---] 23:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


It said ] was one of the founders, with reference ref name="Xiong2009". I see no mention of WvB in that reference, so I have removed von Braun. It is plausible he might have been part of the founding, so I hope someone will provide a good reference. ] (]) 21:59, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
⚫ == Quackwatch ==


== External links modified ==
I would suggest moving the following to a new 'criticisms' section of the article: ''The skeptical organization Quackwatch lists IONS as a voluntary organization it views with "considerable distrust."''. Quackwatch are no more reputable than many of the organisations they criticise, they are hardly notable and little more than a personal project for ]. They are also through Barrett closely linked with ] who are also far from neutral. In light of this to place them in the first paragraph of this article is far too ], that is why I attempted to make the addition more ]. Thanks - ] 18:42, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
:I don't know much about the organization honestly, but they do seem to be at least a little controversial. I don't have a problem with moving the critique from the intro to the next paragraph, but there ought to be some sort of critical voice in the article. &mdash; ]\<sup>]</sup> 18:53, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
::I'm okay with the line of criticism not being located in the intro paragraph, but I'm not okay with it being relegated to the very bottom of the article. One line doesn't deserve its own section header, and I believe integrating criticisms into the article text is preferred rather than dividing it up into a separate section. &mdash; ]\<sup>]</sup> 19:03, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


Hello fellow Wikipedians,
:::It is usual practice to place the criticisms after the main explanation. But at present I'm not even sure why this statement has been included, Quackwatch have no real relevance and they don't even make any direct statement to do with IONS, they have just been included in a list. You admit you don't know much about Quackwatch, so it just looks like an attempt to add criticism to the article for the sack of it. I think in situations like this it may be better to see if we can gain a consensus on how to include the information if at all. I would like to invite other users to comment maybe a post to both project Rational Skepticism and Paranormal might help. For now I will leave it as is until some other members comment. - ] 21:06, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

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== External links modified ==

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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061203013528/http://www.noetic.org/about/history.cfm to http://www.noetic.org/about/history.cfm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070513104943/http://www.noetic.org/research/programs.cfm to http://www.noetic.org/research/programs.cfm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061130073352/http://www.noetic.org/about.cfm to http://www.noetic.org/about.cfm
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101127145826/http://noetic.org/library/publication-newsletters/ to http://noetic.org/library/publication-newsletters/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101127145941/http://noetic.org/library/publication-magazines/ to http://www.noetic.org/library/publication-magazines/

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Co-founder?

These sources all say Edgar Mitchell was the founder, not the co-founder:

Primary sources tag

Those editors interested in upgrading the article with secondary sources so that the tag can be removed may find these books to be good resources: -- — Keithbob • Talk • 00:28, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

You need independent sources so those would be fairly crummy to use, IRWolfie- (talk) 09:38, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Quackwatch again

Quackwatch is an award winning website and is perfectly reliable for its own list, IRWolfie- (talk) 22:24, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Possibly. Can you elucidate? But first look at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?search=wp%3Aquackwatch&title=Special%3ASearch. Thanks. GeorgeLouis (talk) 05:44, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
if you question quackwatch itself, there are many reliably published sources that cover quackwatch's assessment of IONS . -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 12:10, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
Good starting points for an addition to this article. I am interested, too, in the idea that QW "is perfectly reliable for its own list." Is there a WP:Policy that applies? GeorgeLouis (talk) 13:17, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
A source is reliable for the existence and integrity of its own list. We aren't commenting on the quality of the list, merely noting that quackwatch lists it. Also note that WP:RSN has consistently found that Quackwatch is fine to use but sometimes it's tone is an issue (rather than content itself). On the list of the archive, I'd suggest having a look at some of the RSN threads. IRWolfie- (talk) 21:30, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
Yes, Quackwatch would be a reliable source for what appears in Quackwatch, but the two follow up questions are: 1) are Quackwatch's opinions /analysis generally considered reliable? and 2) is Quackwatch's opinion about the subject an opinion of note that should be included? Given that other reliable sources have covered Quackwatch's opinion, I would say the answer to 2) is: yes. And apparently the RS notice board has generally stated that the answer to 1) is also yes.-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 21:37, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
WP:Otherstuffexists may or may not apply, but somebody could try adding something about the Quackwatch listing and see if it sticks. GeorgeLouis (talk) 03:21, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Wernher von Braun

It said Wernher von Braun was one of the founders, with reference ref name="Xiong2009". I see no mention of WvB in that reference, so I have removed von Braun. It is plausible he might have been part of the founding, so I hope someone will provide a good reference. GangofOne (talk) 21:59, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

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