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Hi.

I am loking at the University of South Florida "STANDARDS FOR DISCIPLINARY ACTION" and "Computer & Network Access Agreement", Account Certification Statement points. Specifically;

• 4. Use computing resources for private profit, or for promoting a religious or political group.
• 6. Using facilities, including printers, for junk mail, mass mailing, or non-course-related work etc

Look, the bottomline is substantiate your allegations. You can't. And so the personal attacks are going to be remove again. See, Discussion History.

For the record, Luis Alberto Riveros; M.Ed, MS, MCSE is lying in those unsubstantiated allegations. He did not send a private email, he posted it all maliciously on a public forum - which is where I read it and presumably there is a cached copy. Maliciousness is not a divine or peaceful virtue, so where is his integrity? If I was him, I would be running back to Waddy to take Shrimat on all this double quick.

The pair of you have a choice. Play by the Wiki rules and everything goes nicely. Break the rules or be silly attempting your BK whitewash and I won't bother putting in a complaint to the Wiki admins but I will put a complaint into his faculty at the University of South Florida, College of Visual & Performing Arts for his misuse of the institution's Information Technology in line with the agreement above quoting IP addresses to promote the secretive Doomsday, End of the World, Nuclear Holocaust Cult that he is a recruiter for and making personal attacks to defend. As far as I understand, he was invited to continue posting on the forum but did not take up the offer.

I am absolutely sure, given the current environment within America, a cult member who writes on a number of different webforums that, "the bombs have been created and are going to be used" ( revealing said .edu IP address) and believes that God Shiva is inspiring the "science proud Yadavas" to make bombs to destroy the world will alert the highest authorities. Unfortunately, we have the Murlis and we have the inhouse teaching aids and we know it all.

Now, if I were you, I would be a lot more concerned about;

• why the BKWSU were at pains to cover up the Child Sex Abuse ring operating in at least two of Indian centers, including the headquarters of Madhuban, that sexually abused numerous young girls?
• why the pedophiles that committed these crimes were not reported to the police and brought to justice as, say, the Roman Catholic has finally starting to do?
• why they were allowed to remain in their positions for several years despite the problems being known?
• why they attempt to re-write the BKWSU sex abuse incident as a mere allegation rather than an actual incident and blame it on the child?
• why the BKWSU took great pains at a teachers training session in the Oxford Global Retreat Centre to attempt to cover up any connection between child sex abuse and the BKWSU - WITHOUT INFORMING THE BKWSU RAJA YOGA TEACHERS THAT SEXUAL ABUSE HAD ACTUALLY TAKEN PLACE?

If you want citations, we can given. The BKWSU even wrote this down on the handouts.

Funny enough, I am reading the ad in " New Times Naturally" and it seems like Luis is a bit of a name and fame BK. I don't see any mention of Raja Yoga or the BKs. But that is typical of them these days;

"Postive Thinking. Luis Riveros Improve your life and change the way you feel. Wed Sept 13, 7-8.30 pm, FREE 7520 W Waters, Ave Ste 5 Tampa, Reserv 813-334-7424".

My friend, I do not think that you know what you are getting into. 195.82.106.244 01:26, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

And you know what Bud, I'm 100% sure you all you have to do is have a quiet word with your bbsysop sockpuppet and the whole world could see the awful full extent of Ayvakt7's maliciousness. I'd be interested that's for sure, as from the dialogue that's somehow survived your pruning, he is as courteous as you are plainly not.

searchin man 23:27, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Right. And Luis Riveros believes and teaches - which is what the BKWSU behind the facade is really all about - that;

• dinosaurs lived 2,500 years ago,
• that evolution is a constantly repeating and identical 5,000 year cycle (which God used to teach it was going to be all over in 1975/76)
• in less than 30 years we will be making babies without making love indeed that baby Krishna must be on his way any day now
• that 6 Billion are going to die during a Nuclear Holocaust to make way for their heaven on earth (although God used to teach there were only 5 Billion human souls)
• God possesses a little old Indian lady to meet his superior Brahmin caste only,
• everyone else on the planet are Shudras.

Fine. Keep it coming. These beliefs are on a par with the Heaven's Gate cult but - who knows - they may be true. The problem I have is that the multinational, UN associated BKWSU is hiding these beliefs behind a veneer of "Positive Thinking", "Self Management" and "Values" classes designed to draw people in. Just like the ones Luis teaches.

Now, tell me if I am wrong in any of these assertions. Do you need the BKWSU citations - oh, sorry, I have already given you them - or are we just ignoring the facts and focusing on the personal attacks instead?

So where do you fit in? Are you a BK Brahmin or a just a Shudra contact soul that he uses to do his dirty work? Or his devotee for the next Copper Age? Has he got you marked as "Baba's child" and for becoming a Brahmin in the future or just a bhagat? Is he just "serving" you now until the day you become a "serviceable soul" too?

Ask him. If you don't know it, that is how these people are think.

195.82.106.244 13:41, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Bud, I've a pretty good handle on where your comin from, just looking at some of your performances on your own forum. When I've time I'll post back here, give you a better idea of where I'm at.

searchin man 23:10, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I had another question for you and BK Luis.

Baba says, the Confluence Age is 100 years long. And the BKWSU is celebrating its 70th Anniversary this year.

He also says that Krishna and Radhe will be crowned Narayan and Lakshmi when they are 30 or 35 years old. And that Krishna will be conceived, virgin birth style, by the power of Raja Yoga. If Luis has been in Gyan anytime he will be able to confirm it.

So would means that somewhere BKs must be giving virgin birth to baby Krishna, Radhe and a whole load of Golden Aged deities, this year even ... so how and where is it happening? . If you need the citations, you know where to get them?

195.82.106.244 01:14, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Cheer UP!

Some times bliss may be of our own making, truth found our own voice and delight our finest moment!TA@2006 Sweet TatorTalkAbout 04:54, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Please State facts, discuss the facts and elevate the discussions

Searchin Man,

I think we need to elevate the discussions here and stick with the facts/tenets/beliefs/history. Personal attacks towards me are not warranted and frankly I am starting to believe that my first impression was correct:that you are in fact Avyak7. So, lets, try and be civil. I am not going to get into squabbles with you, nor anyone else. So, if you want to continue a positive link then take the approach of one item, issue at a time. PEACE TalkAbout 08:28, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

searchin man,

Listen, things have not been quiet around here and I have some other things to address. As to not attacking me yet! Wow...not very Brahmin would you say. As to the "Old one"....answering? Don't know of what you speak of. I always sign in as TalkAbout, don't have multiple issues and yes, I find I am younger than most in spirit. So, patience....what is the hurry? The World is not going to end, just like in 1976. Still here...

So, you never stated what you were searchin for? Look in the mirror...truth is within!TalkAbout 01:39, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Long-time Wikipedian

OK. We have a long-time Wikipedian drop in, post-Luis's complaint and my reply to it.

Read what he has said. And let's start the real work.

Thanks. 195.82.106.244 02:01, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

So the Attacking Begins

searchin man,

Truth be told it is Sad Mouse that moves me with all the editing....don't even know if it is a Micky or a Mini. As to the hat I did have a farm....! So, please once again stick to the points....of discussion and not personal attacks! See, no wonder you got Missy all upset! Ever read about the Dirty Little Ole Man that no one suspects of sending Dirty e-mails.......yes, you are edging close there. As to Mr. Well, See, truth be told I don't know who is or is not. Didn't pay close attension was it Miss Avyakt7, if so I am sorry. I now have come to believe it is an ET All....to many to count. If I knew you wanted an e-mail response to harrass me I wouldn't have given a response. I did believe you when you said you wanted to work for the good, and in good will. I was mistaken! But thanks to you I found the link while going through the files on one site myself.TalkAbout 02:18, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Please see Misplaced Pages's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you.

TalkAbout 02:29, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Grasp of truth

If you are going to slap prejudicial insults about in public, tell me what has the "grasp of truth" got to do with cleaning off the crud on my discussion page so I could read the new stuff?

Do you have any ability to perceive the difference in the scale of references between doing so and misleading the lives of 1,000 or even 10,000s of people by covering up, e.g.;

• failed BKWSU 1976 Destruction predictions
• the 40 year Confluence Age BKWSU prediction
• the child sex abuse at the BKWSU headquarters in Dehli and Madhuban
• Sevak Ram's role at the start of the BKWSU Yugya
• the organized physical beatings with lathis being lashed out at the PBKs by the BKs?

Just take any one of the issues, ask the senior BKs, and then come back to me and tell me if I am wrong. There is more to come too. And I can provide the citations.

Tell us honestly, how much of the BKWSU Raja Yoga course did you actually do? Did you get as far as the Cycle or Murli or just do the general intro stuff? How far do you actually follow BK Maryadas? You said 5 years association with the BKWSU, did you see the BKWSU headed notepaper where Lekhraj Kirpalani is clearly refered to as a medium?

Does this count as citable? 195.82.106.244 22:23, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

No way could I hope to compete with you in the insult slapping stakes. I was merely pointing out the sort of reaction the Wiki RC_Patroller provoked in his attempt to restore the entirely valid warning tags that other users had made]. You have quite a history of removing or altering the comments of others that you deem to be ‘crud’. ] ] ]]

Given your clear fondness for ‘pruning the crud’ in the wikipedia, I would not consider anything sourced from your own website to be useful for the purposes of citation.

And I have already openly disclosed my relationship with the BK. For example see my comments here: ] ]. Actually a little surprised you haven’t publicly exposed me as with bkSimonB and Riveros11. Maybe a soft spot for me as I’m not quite ‘One of Them’! Try reading some of the papers by Wallis or Howell/Turner, should give you an in-depth insight, into the wide and fluid variety of BK membership patterns. searchin man 03:24, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

It is not clear, what are you? A "contact soul"? An ex- or failed BK? Part-time BK or BK laity? Have you done the course and do you follow the Maryadas?

Luis cited sources are full of stuff about channlling and mediums, I am happy to work with them. Unlike you I have had the privilege of being in on the inside during the early days of Western service. Like any product, the real thing tastes entirely different from what it says on the outside of the label. Nevermind some second hand point of view of what the label says. What was up there was the truth. The BKs know it. You might not. You don't strike me as being particularly soul-conscious or Brahmin.

BTW, did you know about how Dadi Janki has her own bank account? Now, ask yourself, how does someone that never worked all her life, that is supposedly unpaid by the BKWSU, that sits encouraging all her followers to surrender everything to Baba, wages, houses, dowries, actually have a bank account with money in it? Do you think any academic has gotten anywhere near stuff like that? Frankly, I really think that you do not have a clue.

Funny thing is, I have to say, I respect any BK over you because at least they know the score and are walking their talk; getting up at 4am and attempting to practise divine virtues. I suppose even Waddy and Luis think that in some way what they is doing is somehow "divine". Although I can see. It just looks like a dishonest cover up of stuff the BKWSU does not want the pubic to know until they are well and trully "intoxicated", a PR whitewash.

Did you see the letterhead where it clearly mentioned Brahma Baba as "medium"? Does that count as a citable reference? It clearly mentions "Destruction" as well ... and how we had to fight Luis's denial of that.

195.82.106.244 07:52, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps not surprisingly I don’t find too many of your choice of labels that barnstormingly attractive. If you must categorise me, then I would prefer to define myself as an ‘Eclectic User’, for further insight see Walliss’s paper at ].

Nope, I have to confess I don’t know the one about Dadi Janki and her bank account. But if it’s anything like the one you tried to initially spin me with, - UK charity commission reports supposedly revealing that the BK are hoarding £15 million in bank deposits, ] -then I’m more than happy to remain ‘without a clue’.

I don’t quite see you as the privileged expert on the ‘inside’ either. It’s really notable that for someone with so much to say on his brahmakumaris.info forum, that not once in the many Abu/India centred threads that I have looked over, have I ever noticed you as much as even imply first-hand experience of the situation. You know what 244? - I reckon you were such an ‘insider’ that you didn’t even bother to make a trip to Abu!

Now I’d like to encourage you to take the advice of the RC Patroller MER-C and restore those warning tags to your talk page complete with any directly associated comments. (moved here after being archived from 244s talkpage) searchin man 14:42, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Comments to arbitrator

Hi.

out of decency, I'll cc you in on this discussion as you are working with Luis on this page. But, hey, look! Jesselp erased all his Discussion page ... shall we stick him for it!?! Or is it one sauce for the goose and another for the gander? I am egalitarian myself.

Personally, I'd be careful how you are setting the BKWSU up for a fall within the public domain by pursuing these issues in an unfair and dishonest manner. In my opinion, matters really ought to be handled in a fair more subtle and delicate manner - and, of course, "taking the task ahead ... in an organized way and as per rules" as BapDada said. I take it you know who BapDada is?

We still have to address the matter of channelling and mediumship. I am happy to wait until arbitration is over as the sources given are inarguable. You will have seen the headed note paper by now, I take it. I do not know how deep into BKWSU you are but here is a lot more to come, citable with references, which is why they are become so aggressive in their denial. I am just waiting for the arbitrators' opinion.

Thanks. 195.82.106.244 10:09, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I don’t see Jesselp or anyone else in this discussion group removing warning tags from their talk page.

Thanks for the warning though, guess if I’m not careful I could end up getting a commendation on the brahmakumaris.info news page!

Infact it took more than a month to even secure an NPOV tag, and even if that was all I achieve for the article, then it’s still a whole lot better than it was.

As for BapDada? I think that would be the ‘Spook(s)’ you refer to in your forum postings.

As regards the channelling, I voiced my concern with the way it was originally presented here ]. Riveros11 has since included a quoted reference, indicating where channelling is believed to take place. And I’m fairly sure further reputable third-party citations could be supplied, if any further emphasis on this aspect is required. searchin man 03:32, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

why Jesselp erases his discussions...

Because they are not about me. but if it is an issues then they can stay. JP 18:35, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

http://www.brahmakumaris.info

I am very glad to hear that you are still following discuss on http://www.brahmakumaris.info. I find it very useful in understanding the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University and their so called Raja Yoga too.

What do you make of the child abuse stuff or the cultish 1976 predictions of Destruction/End of the World?

Is it true or false? Thanks. 195.82.106.244 01:24, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

ok try and answer these two as best I can

Unlike yourself, I have actually travelled to India. Whilst there I visited the home of the BK in Abu. In common with some of the other ashrams I visited, Abu appeared as a virtual haven of order and tranquillity relative to the colourful but disorientating chaos of the rest of India. Although I didn’t stay on site, I mixed freely with the many other students, including children of all ages. My impression during my time there, was that the children were thoroughly enjoying the experience and were well looked after.

Abu is a very large campus and I reckon must cater for substantial numbers of children every year. I’m confident that if you or the BKI community pick up the slightest rumour of anything remotely similar in the period since the child abuse was alleged to have occurred, (which would appear to be over twenty years ago), then it too, will immediately appear on your website. For the moment however, I’m having no difficulty trusting my own observation that the BK are providing a safe, well-managed environment for children in their care, both at home and on pilgrimage.

Regarding 1976. Scanning the ex-bk/pbk dialogue, it seems despite initial pbk assertions that there was a clear murli directive in 1966 indicating that ‘destruction’ would take place in 1976, that these assertions were subsequently retracted, and it appears the weight of evidence is left with a picture sourced from your website, incorporating the words ‘Destruction will take place in 10 years’. Ten years from when exactly? I could further speculate that the inclusion of this phrase maybe due to a little doctoring, that just happens to nicely suit pbk theology? Or, if it is indeed original, - quite simply a bit of artistic license on the part of the draughtsman? If I am swayed at all as to 1976 being a significant issue for the BK, it’s where an ex-bk recounts witnessing the feeling of expectation apparently running through the BK in 1976. Not that he himself was exactly biting his nails, as elsewhere he recalls receiving direct permission from ‘Baba’ to pursue a college degree in the fall of ‘76!

True or false? Black and white? One or the other? If only you applied some of this wonderful two-tone moral code to your own behaviour. - Maybe there wouldn’t be the mysterious user brahmakumaris.info lurking around to worry about? sincerely searchin man 18:29, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

1976

" Regarding 1976. Scanning the ex-bk/pbk dialogue, it seems despite initial pbk assertions that there was a clear murli directive in 1966 indicating that ‘destruction’ would take place in 1976 ... "

The multiple Murlis quotes I have seen were from 1969 onwards into the 70s. After the alleged "perfection" of Lekhraj Kirpalani. There were many. Of course, Kirpalani was convinced of the same before he died.

Unlike you I have friends, family of friends and acquaintances that were in Gyan from at least 1974 onwards. Some left due to the disappointment of the failure of the predictions. It was still being taught into the 70s. There was a big rumpus in India about it and many BKs Indian left.

The posters I have seen are as original. See if you can find an old Indian BK, one with integrity, to inspect them, confirm their provenance and the check above.

The ball is back in your court.

195.82.106.244 08:58, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I pulled some Murli dates for you to check with the BKWSU.

• Reading my talk page, I note that you now consider that you can succeed in your allegations and discrediting me by making a libels. The latest being of me doctoring BKWSU posters.

The solution is simple. Ask the BKWSU. I know. I am not moved by the slur. You could ask the BKWSU to check these Murlis received by the BK medium called Sister Gulzar AFTER Kirpalani's death and alleged perfection., e.g.;

• Avyakt Murli 25/10/69 :

“The final Destruction of the whole World takes place within 6 years. Those who tell it to be 7 years have their position reduced.” (6 years from 25/10/69 comes to 1975/76)

• Avyakt Murli 05/11/70 : “From this journey, it is 5 years for Destruction.” (5 years from 5/11/70 comes to 1975/76)

• Avyakt Murli 03/02/71 : ” Within 5 years, the whole work should be completed.” (5 years from 3/2/71 comes to 1975/76)

• Avyakt Murli 09/09/72 : “Even those who are rich, even they live hardly for 3-4 years more.” (3-4 years will come to 1975/76)

• Avyakt Murli 04/02/74 : “From 10 years (of the declaration), only 2 years are left. Soon Kali Yuga has come to an end. The Drama is certain.” (2 years will fall in 1976)

• Avyakt Murli 09/11/74 : “Rest, 2 years is left over. Don’t think that it will become 3 years. It may become one year but it can never become 3 years” (2 years will come in 1976).

195.82.106.244 23:29, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Brahma Kumaris

Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Brahma Kumaris. Please add any evidence you may wish the arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Brahma Kumaris/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Brahma Kumaris/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, --Srikeit 17:47, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Article in need of cleanup - please assist if you can

The article Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University, to which you have helped contribute, has been flagged as requiring cleanup. If possible, we would appreciate your assistance in cleaning up this article to bring it up to Misplaced Pages's quality standards. If you are unsure what the nature of the problem is, please discuss this on the article's talk page.

Question

So, let me ask you an honest questions;

• you say that you have had a fairly long acquaintance with the BKWSU but that you are not a card carrying BK ( ... correct?), do you actually know what they teach or do you just want to cover it up because it is not easily palatable to non-BKs?

Did you take the complete course to the point of the Murlis, were you a pukka Morning Class Brahmin that then failed but remained a co-operative soul?

I just wonder where you are coming from.

Fair enough, if you do not know the Gyan. But if you do know the Gyan, why the strength of reaction and the dependency on personal attack and slur?

All of these elements documented are true. All have been cited and refered too. The horse has long bolted the stable as the academics have documented it all. What is the problem with the verifiable truth?

195.82.106.244 08:19, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and show me a reference that says you can be a BK Brahmin and carry on a sexual relationship, run a center, go to Madhubhan properly. I think you just answered my question re reading/hearing Murlis. 195.82.106.244 08:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Not quite cricket old chap.

Never mind. Don't bother answering the above. I got it. Thanks to a friendly admin. And, you know me, a) being naive and trusting and b) being a stickler for checking my facts first. It took me sometime to get there.

I don't supose your position on celibacy has anything to do with your taste for hot, spicy Bengali food; even if it gives you indigestion afterwards?

OK. As with Luis, I give you the opportunity to determine the state of play next but it is good to know which side you are on. 195.82.106.244 01:03, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Temporary Injunction

A temporary injunction has been passed in Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Brahma Kumaris. All editors listed as a party to this case are banned from editing Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University until the case is settled.

For the Arbitration Committee --Srikeit 11:30, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Brahma Kumaris

This case is now closed and the results have been published at the link above.

195.82.106.244 is banned for one year for a personal attack which contained a threat against another user . 195.82.106.244 is placed on Probation. He may be banned from editing any article which he disrupts by engaging in aggressive biased editing, especially that relying on inadequately sourced original research. Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University is placed on article probation. The principals in this matter are expected to convert the article from its present state based on original research and BK publications to an article containing verifiable information based on reliable third party sources. After a suitable grace period, the state of the article may be evaluated on the motion of any member of the Arbitration Committee and further remedies applied to those editors who continue to edit in an inappropriate manner. Any user may request review by members of the Arbitration Committee. Should any user violate a ban imposed under the terms of this decision, they may be blocked for an appropriate period of time. All blocks to be logged at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Brahma Kumaris#Log of blocks and bans.

For the Arbitration Committee --Srikeit 17:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)