Talk:Israeli criticism of the occupation of Palestine: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 20:22, 26 January 2019 editIcewhiz (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users38,036 edits Pov tag		Latest revision as of 19:14, 10 December 2024 edit undoSpookyaki (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users4,169 edits Assessment: banner shell, Human rights (Mid), Politics (Rater)
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	{{WP Israel}}
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	== POV tag ==		== POV tag ==
	Generally "criticism" articles are POVFORKs that should be deleted, or in this case perhaps merged to ]. The tag was placed since the article reflects only voices on the fringes of the Israeli radical left. The occupation has been criticized by mainstream voices of much greater weight - the Zionist left (Labour) to center (e.g. Lapid) as well as by voices on the right - e.g. ] or ] who both have strongly opposed the continuing occupation throughout their ~~politocal~~ careers (and in both cases - these are elected party leaders).] (]) 20:22, 26 January 2019 (UTC)		Generally "criticism" articles are POVFORKs that should be deleted, or in this case perhaps merged to ]. The tag was placed since the article reflects only voices on the fringes of the Israeli radical left. The occupation has been criticized by mainstream voices of much greater weight - the Zionist left (Labour) to center (e.g. Lapid) as well as by voices on the right - e.g. ] or ] who both have strongly opposed the continuing occupation throughout their political careers (and in both cases - these are elected party leaders).] (]) 20:22, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
			:Silly. 'only voices on the fringes of the Israeli radical left' is a gross, to the point of absurdity, mischaracterization of figures such as ], ], ], ], ] and ] are or were internationally recognized scholars and thinkers, philosophers, sociologists of high distinction. ] was honoured by one of the highest distinction awarded in Israel, something never done for 'voices on the fringe of the Israeli radical left' whoever on earth they might be. ] and ] might be described as people on the left,-both were represented in the Israeli Knesset - but we have no rule against mentioning the views of people whose interpretations of reality differ from Likudniks, stoutly populated by people on the radical right. The word 'radical left' not only in Israeli newspaper usage, appears to be a synonym for 'sensitive to human rights'.] (]) 10:26, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
			:: It's a proper reflection of where on the political spectrum most of the opinions in this article are coming from - and this where there is no lack of voices such as ] (and a whole host of associated think tanks / academics with this type of POV) or (on a somewhat different tack) - ].] (]) 10:40, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
			:::It's not a 'reflection': it is a contrafactual assumption. You have dodged the question. Have you any RS of quality that call the gentlefolk mentioned above 'voices on the fringes of the Israeli radical left'. If you don't, then your judgement is just a personal viewpoint, one with no respectable grounding. I will in due course add a few dozen other notable critics. This article is at stub stage ] (]) 10:48, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
			::Then add those other voices. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 16:49, 27 January 2019 (UTC)</small>

			== Name ==
			"Israeli criticism of the occupation" seems like a strange title. What's "the occupation"? The occupation of territories by Israel isn't a proper name. ] ] ] 11:16, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

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POV tag

Generally "criticism" articles are POVFORKs that should be deleted, or in this case perhaps merged to Criticism of the Israeli government. The tag was placed since the article reflects only voices on the fringes of the Israeli radical left. The occupation has been criticized by mainstream voices of much greater weight - the Zionist left (Labour) to center (e.g. Lapid) as well as by voices on the right - e.g. Bezalel Smotrich or Rehavam Ze'evi who both have strongly opposed the continuing occupation throughout their political careers (and in both cases - these are elected party leaders).Icewhiz (talk) 20:22, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Silly. 'only voices on the fringes of the Israeli radical left' is a gross, to the point of absurdity, mischaracterization of figures such as Avishai Margalit, David Dean Shulman, Baruch Kimmerling, Zeev Sternhell, Ronit Lentin and Yehuda Elkana are or were internationally recognized scholars and thinkers, philosophers, sociologists of high distinction. Yeshayahu Leibowitz was honoured by one of the highest distinction awarded in Israel, something never done for 'voices on the fringe of the Israeli radical left' whoever on earth they might be. Avraham Burg and Uri Avnery might be described as people on the left,-both were represented in the Israeli Knesset - but we have no rule against mentioning the views of people whose interpretations of reality differ from Likudniks, stoutly populated by people on the radical right. The word 'radical left' not only in Israeli newspaper usage, appears to be a synonym for 'sensitive to human rights'.Nishidani (talk) 10:26, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

It's a proper reflection of where on the political spectrum most of the opinions in this article are coming from - and this where there is no lack of voices such as Tzipi Livni (and a whole host of associated think tanks / academics with this type of POV) or (on a somewhat different tack) - Bezalel Smotrich.Icewhiz (talk) 10:40, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

It's not a 'reflection': it is a contrafactual assumption. You have dodged the question. Have you any RS of quality that call the gentlefolk mentioned above 'voices on the fringes of the Israeli radical left'. If you don't, then your judgement is just a personal viewpoint, one with no respectable grounding. I will in due course add a few dozen other notable critics. This article is at stub stage Nishidani (talk) 10:48, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Then add those other voices. nableezy - 16:49, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Name

"Israeli criticism of the occupation" seems like a strange title. What's "the occupation"? The occupation of territories by Israel isn't a proper name. Super Ψ Dro 11:16, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

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