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	==~~Cristina neagu~~==		==M.Bitton==
			{{hat\|result=M.Bitton is warned against ] and reminded to abide by ]. ] (]) 06:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC)}}
	{{hat\|1=Topic-banned from Romania and Romanians for six months. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 12:24, 18 February 2019 (UTC)}}
	<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>		<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

	===Request concerning ~~Cristina neagu~~===		===Request concerning M.Bitton===
	; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks\|~~Tgeorgescu~~}} 21:16, 14 ~~February~~ ~~2019~~ (UTC)		; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks\|XDanielx}} 07:55, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

			; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks\|M.Bitton}}<p>{{ds/log\|M.Bitton}}</p>

			;Sanction or remedy to be enforced:
			]

			; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
			I'll limit this to ] related issues for now, since they're easiest to evaluate with minimal context.

			# {{tq\|xDanielx being disingenuous again (what they mean by "no explanation" is "no explanation that they agree with")}}
			# {{tq\|casting aspersions to justify your disruptive editing is about as low as it gets ... this is extremely disingenuous ... made-up rules and demands to satisfy you}}
			# {{tq\|please don't make-up another rule ... maybe that's because you only see what you want to see}} (partly struck per admin request)
			# , {{tq\|Misplaced Pages is not a collection of every piece of alleged garbage}}
			# {{tq\|When someone keeps misrepresenting the sources (again and again), then I will rightly assume disingenuousness}}
			# {{tq\|I'm starting to question your motives}}
			# {{tq\|Please refrain from repeating your lies}} ( to {{tq\|You're being extremely disingenuous. You misrepresented the sources (clearly to push a POV)}}
			# {{tq\|I don't take lessons from those who misrepresent the sources and edit war over ]}}
			# {{tq\|please don't attribute your nonsense to me (this is totally unacceptable)}}
			# {{tq\|Bobfrombrockley is busy adding whatever garbage they can find}}
			# {{tq\|you've been very busy adding whatever garbage you could find to the article}}
			# {{tq\|Do you expect me to explain to you what "freedom of expression" is?}}
			# {{tq\|I'm done wasting my time with this nonsense ... Your self-serving opinion is irrelevant}}
			# offensive humor

			; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
			I'm not aware of CTOP sanctions. The seems to show four blocks, but they're not that recent and I'm not sure how relevant they are.

			; If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
			* Was a subject of a previous ARBPIA AE ].
			* Made a couple other statements in ARBPIA AE requests: ,

			; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
			Another 15 diffs were (rightfully) removed by an admin for exceeding the diff limit as well as falling outside PIA scope; just mentioning for transparency. They might be relevant on a different forum but admittedly not here. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 16:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

			{{yo\|theleekycauldron}} I planned to file something after the "garbage" comments (about BobFromBrockley) on ]. I reconsidered after being surprised by M.Bitton's there. Admittedly M.Bitton's comments in the thread above prompted me to reconsider again, but that wasn't about the fact that I might receive a warning there (irrespective of M.Bitton's participation); it was just about me personally being on the receiving end of some personal attacks. I don't really follow why me being emotionally affected by the conduct would affect the legitimacy of the report. Most of the incivility was directed at other users, and letting this conduct continue wouldn't seem fair to them. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 16:41, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

			; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :


			===Discussion concerning M.Bitton===
			<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

			====Statement by M.Bitton====
			Not content with edit warring, assuming bad faith and casting aspersions (see ]), they now decided to ] and file a retaliatory report. ] (]) 09:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
			:{{re\|Vanamonde93\|Ealdgyth}} I just want to draw your attention to their aspersions casting {{tq\|tag-team revert\|q=yes}} (], while striking it, leaves no doubt about they believe) and the fact that they falsely accused me: of ignoring their ping (when I was logged out) and reverting without an explanation (when, in fact, I did provide one). ] (]) 18:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
			::{{re\|Ealdgyth}} I agree and will make sure that doesn't happen in the future, regardless of what's coming the other way. I should know better than let myself take the bait, but lesson learnt nonetheless. ] (]) 18:14, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::{{re\|Valereee}} sure. ] (]) 00:36, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Statement by (username)====
			<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

			===Result concerning M.Bitton===
			:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
			<!-- When closing this request use {{hat\|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
			*<!--
			-->
			* This is shamelessly and obviously a retaliatory filing, and I'm leaning towards a one- or two-way interaction ban to stop the back-and-forth sniping. But I'd still draw uninvolved admins' attention to ] and ask what their thoughts are. That seems like pretty battleground-y behavior to me. ] (] • she/her) 14:27, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:I see it as a bit retaliatory, but we do need to stop this sniping, especially at AE and other such venues. ] (]) 14:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
			*::Yeah, a logged warning sounds like enough to me, given their responses so far. ] (] • she/her) 00:36, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
			*Yes, this is retaliatory, and at the same time, M. Bitton's language is not acceptable. Bad behavior should be addressed at an administrator noticeboard, or in a civil post to a user talk page, not with what SFR accurately describes as sniping. I would log a warning for casting aspersions. ] (]) 17:15, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
			* I agree with SFR and Vanamonde93 that the language used does not help the topic area at all. I don't know if M.Bitton's had a long history of logged warnings before (I'm a bit busy trying to get the farm ready for an artic clipper coming in) but I'm fine with a logged warning. But the filer should be aware that they need to also try to avoid retaliatory-filing look in the future... ] (]) 17:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
			** I'm not happy about Daniel's behavior (but will try to find time to look at it in the earlier filing to avoid getting this one off track) but, M.Bitton, your comments are not just sub-par, but not at all what editors should be directing at others. An acknowledgment of that and working to avoid that in the future is something you need to seriously consider if you're not going to end up sanctioned in the future. ] (]) 18:08, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
			*I also think a logged warning should be adequate here, particularly given the limited sanctions history and the . Personally I'm not bothered by the timing of this report in light of xDanielx's explanation, although it's wise to avoid even the appearance of retaliation when you're at AE. ] (]) 22:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
			*I don't disagree that this is retaliatory, but that doesn't moot the issue. M.Bitton does tend to approach editing in a battleground-y way, and their language often escalates rather than de-escalates. I'd very much like you to start using de-escalating language, {{u\|M.Bitton}}. Can you discuss that? ] (]) 00:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:I meant can you discuss it ''here'', but maybe I wasn't clear. ] (]) 15:56, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			*Have not read this but will note that {{u\| xDanielx}} is at their word limit. Daniel if you want to post anything else please get an extension first from an uninvolved administrator. ] (]) 02:48, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
			*Comment to stave off the bot. Looks like the proposed resolution here is a warning for battleground behavior, does that still seem the way to go? ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 09:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:A logged warning, sure. ] (]) 15:54, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			*::Agreed, and I also agree we should put this to bed. ] (]) 20:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			{{hab}}

			==Ethiopian Epic==
			<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

			===Request concerning Ethiopian Epic===
			; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks\|Tinynanorobots}} 11:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

			; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks\|Ethiopian Epic}}<p>{{ds/log\|Ethiopian Epic}}</p>

	; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks\|Cristina neagu}}<p>{{ds/log\|Cristina neagu}}
	<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->		<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

	;Sanction or remedy to be enforced:		;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
	<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->		<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

	]

	; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :		; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
	<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->		<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
			# created during the Yasuke case and went active when it ended. First 11 edits were to Government of Japan. In one case three edits were used to write one sentence.
	#{{diff2\|883306871}} 14 February 2019 {{tq\|Misplaced Pages is not comparative, it brings to mockery, please read the rules (regarding the EU, I will leave it that way in order Romania to do more efforts)}} Explanation: {{tq\|Hi Cristina, I don't know why you interpreted as "mockery" the mere fact that Romania is ranked at the same corruption perceptions' level with Cuba and Malaysia - is it not your perception that Cuba and Malaysia are somehow generally "inferior" to Romania and the fact that the perceived corruption level in Romania makes them as "inferior" as them? ] (]) 19:26, 14 February 2019 (UTC)}}
			# Manually reverted the lead back to how it was in September.
	#{{diff2\|883181284}} 13 February 2019 {{tq\|Look, I was pissed off because our greatest kings, Burebista and Decebalus (Dacian), and Emperor Trajan (Romania) were deleted.}} Explanation for her psychological drive to perform ]. Our kings? Romanians did not exist back then.
			# Falsely Claimed cited material was OR. (G
	#{{diff2\|883160114}} 13 February 2019 {{tq\|First came the Hungarians who removed parts of our history in order not to be offensive to anyone, secondly you are coming and you are deleting everything. I will probably choose the most important images, because you know nothing about Romania since you are a Canadian trapper.}} Explanation: not necessary.
			# Falsely Claimed cited material was unsourced
	#{{diff2\|883495675}} 15 February 2019. Heartfelt but totally immature comment, during AE scrutiny. Same applies to {{diff2\|883505176}} and {{diff2\|883493424}} (both same day as the former).
			# It took an ANI report to get him to use the article talk page. His defense was accusations and denial.
	<!--# Explanation-->
			# He reverted to a version that went against consensus established on the talk page and contained a falsely sourced quote.
			# Engages in sealioning
			# Removes a well sourced line from Yasuke as well as reverted an edit that was the result of BRD. He has now started disputes with me on all three Yasuke related articles.
			# starts disputing a new section of
			# Brought again to ANI, he claims that I didn't get consensus for changes, even though I had discussed them on talk prior to making them.
			# He keeps mentioning ONUS, and asking me to discuss it, in response to me discussing.
			# Used a non-controversial revert to hide his edit warring.
			# did the same thing on List of foreign-born samurai in Japan.
			# He also repeatedly complains that he doesn't like the definition because it is vague and claims that his preferred version is "status quo"

	; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :		; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
	<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->		<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
	~~<!--~~# Explanation		# Explanation
	# Explanation		# Explanation

	-->
	;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):		;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):[
	<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->		<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
	*Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in ~~the~~ ~~last~~ ~~twelve months,~~ see the system log linked to above~~. {{diff2\|882800195}} 11 February 2019~~.		*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on (see the system log linked to above).


	; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :		; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
	<!-- Add any further comment here -->		<!-- Add any further comment here -->
			I am not sure if this is actually a AE matter, but was told to go here by multiple admins. The biggest issue is the Editing against consensus on accompanied by bludgeoning. However, there are signs of bad faith editing on all three pages where I have interacted with EE. It could also be a CIR issue or it could be some sort of harassment. I don't know. I just know that EE first avoided providing clear reasons for reverting edits and has been trying to engage in Status Quo Stonewalling. He keeps citing Onus or Burden and asks me not to make a change until the discussion is over. Often, this doesn't make sense in context, because the change was in place. He has made false claims about sources and what they say. His editing on Yasuke is not so much a problem as the discussion which comes across as gaslighting.

			:@], I am not an expert on proxies or socks. All the IPs have only posted on the one article and have advocated an odd definition for samurai, that doesn't apply to the article. All except the first one have just reverted. It is possible that this is just laziness, or lack of confidence in writing skills etc. After all, the false citation was added by another user and was just kept. I found the latest one the most suspect, in part because of it first reverting to the incorrect definition, before restoring most of the text and second because of falsely citing policy. I am not sure if they are proxies, but I hoped that someone here would have the expertise to know. I don't think the proxy evidence is the most important. EE is either acting in bad faith or has CIR problems. The later is possible, because he thanked City of Silver during ANI, although City of Silver has been the harshest critic of EE's behaviour towards me.
	This editor shows a ] mentality and pushes a nationalist POV. A six months topic ban from East-European politics and history, broadly conceived, would be all right.

			:I think there should be some important context to the quote: {{tq\|"those who serve in close attendance to the nobility"}}. The quote can be found in several books, on ] it is sourced to an article published in Black Belt Magazine in the 80s by ], where he describes the origin of the word samurai. He is describing the early phases of its meaning in that quote, before it became to have martial connotations. It also refers to the time before 900. The earliest foreign samurai on the list was in the late 1500s. It also doesn't apply to most of the persons on the list. Finally, it is not mentioned in Vaporis's book, which EE keeps adding as the source. He hasn't even made the effort to copy the citation from ].
	{{ping\|Mr rnddude}} I agree with a formal warning and subsequent scrutiny. My impression was that she did not get the point to refrain from ], although she did not lack wise advice.

			:@]
	We rarely have problems with holding opinions off-wiki; we do have problems with on-wiki behavior.
			Not only did I have a dispute with Symphony Regalia about samurai being "retainers to lords", but also on Yasuke about "As a samurai" and on ] EE made the same reverts as SR. EE had with his first edit in all three articles continued a dispute that I had already had with SR.

			:@] I actually don't have a problem with you discussing things. Your talk page posts aren't really discussion though. Your main argument on all three pages has been a shifting of the burden of proof. You don't really discuss content and continually ask me not to make changes without discussing first, and then make changes yourself. I understand that your position is that your preferred version is the status quo. However, my edits regarding the definition on ] , were discussed and consensus was clearly gotten. Similarly, my edits on Yasuke were discussed, and even though I didn't use the exact same version as Gitz said, Gitz had suggested using warrior instead of bushi, so I used samurai, because I thought it would be less controversial.
	I had agreed with {{u\|Mr rnddude}} to let you go with only a formal warning, but then came {{diff2\|883493424}}. Do you realize that you're making yourself a disservice with such statements?
			; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :


			<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	Is {{diff2\|883505176}} supposed to be funny?

			===Discussion concerning Ethiopian Epic===
	About {{diff2\|883657760}} and {{diff2\|883657220}}: do provide evidence for you claims, otherwise you have just made it more difficult for yourself.
			<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
	<!--I had already replied at {{diff2\|883660176}}.

			====Statement by Ethiopian Epic====
	Rest assured that being denied membership of the ] does not qualify as harm. The same way receiving a TBAN from East-European history/politics is not harm. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
			This is clear retaliatory filing because I recently didn't agree with Tinynanorobot's , and because I made talk page sections on some recent edits.

			@] That's not true and you are a very obvious alt account with only 26 edits. No one gave you a notification of this discussion and it's not on the Yasuke talk page. This suggests you are the sock puppet of someone here. Your post is also misleading and incorrect it wasn't an insertion. The line you are talking about in Samurai has been there for over 10 years and is normal. I know because I've read it before. Here is a version from 2017 . I don't understand why you are misrepresenting edits and using an alt account.
	You could defend yourself in two ways: (i) producing evidence (i.e. diffs) that I have really harassed you (filing an AE request is definitely ''not'' harassment); (ii) stating why my claims about you above this sentence are false. Of course, I am not an admin, I never pretended to be one. So, I won't be the person who places you under TBAN, an admin will do that if necessary. Being banned from EE politics/history does not mean that you cannot write about handball, as long as you make no comments about political or historical issues.

			@] I think he is just fishing. That's why he removed his IP claims. Even his other diffs are just mislabeled regular behavior. It's amusing because Eronymous is the likely alt of Tinynanorobots or someone posting here. I think the way Tinynanorobots edits against clear consensus, skips discussion, and then files frivolous ANI/AE reports with misleading narrative like above is disruptive. Discussion is an easy solution and benefits everyone. I hope he will respect RFC consensus.
	Complaining that you or Romanians in general are oppressed ({{diff2\|883666777}}, {{diff2\|883495675}}) just makes you look ridiculous. We're enforcing the ] which apply to every editor. And misogynist ({{diff2\|883658144}})? What has that to do with a TBAN from EE politics/history? ].-->

			====Statement by Relm====
	Provide clear-cut evidence that I'm using "techniques of manipulation", otherwise you just make it harder for yourself. When I was prepared to let you go with a formal warning, why did you have not seized the opportunity?
			I am largely unfamiliar with the account in question, but I do frequently check ]. I believe that EthiopianEpic has displayed a clear slant and battleground mindset in their editing in regards to the topic of Yasuke, but that their conduct on the Yasuke page itself so far has generally been in the ballpark of good faith edits. The revert on December 9th was justified, and their topic on November 29th is well within bounds (though I acknowledge that the background of their prior disputes on other pages with Tinynanorobots shows it may be edit warring) given that the two things being reverted was a change that seemed to skirt the prior RFC with agreement being given in a very non-direct way, and the other portion being an addition which had not been discussed on the talk page prior to its implementation (though previous discussions ered on the side of not including it). I am ''not'' accusing Tinynanorobots of any misconduct in any part of that either.

			What I will note is that in addition to the sockpuppet IP allegations made by Tinynanorobots, I wanted to lodge that the posting style of EthiopianEpic, as well as their knowledge of much of the previous discussions on the page deep in the archive, led me to suspect that they were an alt of ]. I never found anything conclusive. ] (]) 14:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
	Injustice, mockery, false proofs, these are serious charges. But if you cannot provide evidence for your claims, you'll be the one found guilty of casting aspersions.

			====Statement by Simonm223====
	I have stated {{tq\|My impression was that she did not get the point to refrain from ], although she did not lack wise advice.}} What could you have done to avoid a TBAN? Refrain from performing ], obviously. My two cents are that you have continued ], but I let admins be the judge of that.
			These two editors have been tangling at WP:AN/I repeatedly. Last time they came there I said that this would likely continue until a third party intervened. And then the thread got archived with no action () so I'm not surprised that the two of them are still tangling. There is evidence that both editors have engaged in a slow-motion edit war.








			Both have claimed the other is editing against consensus. Here I will say that it appears TinyNanoRobots is more correct than Ethiopian Epic. Furthermore, while neither editors' comportment has been stellar, as other editors have pointed out, it appears more that EE is following TNR about and giving them a hard time than the alternate. . In the linked AN/I case (above) you'll note EE attempted a boomerang on TNR and was not well-received for the effort.

			Frankly my view is that both editors are not editing to the best standards of Misplaced Pages but there is definitely a ''more'' disruptive member of this duo and that is Ethiopian Epic. I think it would probably cut down on the noise considerably if they were encouraged to find somewhere to edit which was not a CTOP subject and if they were encouraged to leave TNR alone. ] (]) 18:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
	We're intellectuals. We don't listen to mere rhetoric, we listen to evidence. So, sorry, {{tq\|False proofs, I already proved}} just won't do ''without providing evidence''.

			====Statement by Eronymous====
	; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
			Similar to Relm I check on the ] page every so often, and it seems very likely given the evidence that ] is an alt of ] created to evade his recent ArbCom sanctions, having started editing the day prior to the case closure. Of note to this is the of Symphony_Regalia on ] was him attempting to insert the line "who served as retainers to lords (including '']'')" - curiously enough, Ethiopian Epic's on ] (and , having just prior made 11 minor ones in a short timeframe to reach autoconfirmed status) is him attempting to insert the same controversial line that was reverted before.
	<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request, and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->

			Symphony_Regalia has a history of utilising socks to edit Yasuke/Samurai related topics and is indefinitely blocked from the .jp wiki for (plus multiple suspected IPs) for this.
	{{diff2\|883346661}}

			Prior to being sanctioned Symphony Regalia frequently got into exactly the same arguments concerning wording/source material with ] that Ethiopian Epic is now. One could assume based on their relationship that he is aggrieved that Tinynanorobots was not sanctioned by ArbCom during the case and is now continuously feuding with him to change that through edit warring and multiple administrator incidents/arbitration requests in the past few weeks. ] (]) 22:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
	<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

	===~~Discussion~~ ~~concerning~~ ~~Cristina~~ ~~neagu~~===		====Statement by Nil Einne====
	<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
	====Statement by Cristina neagu====
	Hello! I am not "nationalistic" user in the terms of battling (patriotic person yes, is this forbidden?), I created 145 new articles on Misplaced Pages. Thank you, Tgeorgescu, that you are hunting my profile and every words. Then you pretend you are a Christian, because I am really not problematic at all. Burebista, Decebalus and Trajan are part of the Romanian ethnogenesis (Dacian and Romans, Romania comes from "the people of Rome"). See what Britannia says. But I obeyed, it was a talk about a gallery of images. '''Banned for what, and why so harsh?''' In 2 and 3 those were my comments indeed but find out we reached the consensus, most likely I agreed with the user's actions and the "spammed" gallery was removed. The user even educated me in Misplaced Pages rules on nations articles. Regarding 1 I just removed "at par with Cuba and Malaysia", I remember I have seen on some pages the same thing (that comparative notes are not really necessary). I didn't keep going, I had a removal, then a removal with explanation and that's all. The user came back and put it back, ok. I can live with that. '''Remember, I obeyed every time!!!''' With everything, I tried to make this work. I am really not problematic at all, just show me from where to read and tell me what I have broken. I have a positive attitude and I will really educate myself more. I accept any decision, just hoping Mr admins will be wise. Tgeorgescu already warned me, but he is a single user, he might have been subjective. Anyway, I still listened to him but maybe I am still wrong in some aspects. If you think I am wrong, dear admins, let me know. Why ban if I was never even warned by an administrator? I just hope women are also welcomed on Misplaced Pages. In all the 3 cases presented I obeyed the opinions of the users at the end. Battling is a lot said, believe me. We can't have different opinions at all? Did you see wars involving me? Most of the times I didn't have the last word. Ok, I can reproach myself I might have been rude in some comments, and I really do apologise. 145 articles in 1 year and my activity was really light. I try to be human with everybody. ] (]) 09:22, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
	:Some users were blocked for 1 WEEK, FOR WORSE THINGS, examples are at the top. Whilst you are asking for me 6-month block... Thanks a lot! ] (]) 12:00, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
	:Hello! But that was a only a comment on a gallery of images (regarding the images, it was not even written anymore as Romanian king - but '''Roman soldiers salute Emperor Trajan during the Second Roman–Dacian War (the war marked the downfall of the Dacian Kingdom)''', I didn't write on the article that and in the end we agreed to keep only some images in order not to spam (I just wanted to keep more photos, including one of Trajan, but we had a consensus not to re-post again the gallery since it's spamming; at the end we kept the Dacian map, the Skull, and the Dacian and Roman Dacia as colony sanctuaries). Yes, TBAN, some other users were blocked for 1 week for worse things. Thank you very much, I consider your comment to be really objective! You see I am as passionate as you on history also. PS. You don't have to agree, but Romania will always consider Trajan as a forefather. We speak Romance language and that's why we pretend we are the descendants of the Roman cohorts, some also mixed with the Dacians (very few). Let's leave this way, Tgeorgescu is trying to twist things up, those were only my personal comments (on the article we did exactly what the other users decided, regarding spamming with the gallery, also previously regarding the content). ] (]) 12:51, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
	::I don't want to accuse anybody, but this could be written on my Misplaced Pages CV. I never had reclamation. This is a like divide et impera following the policy of small steps in order to remove me from the site. First, a warning came from him from nowhere. Then this. Tgeorgescu's opinion about me is probably not good, I am like an obsession. Guess what, he is also a Romanian and we never interacted, that's why I am so emotional! Do you also use another user Tgeorgescu? I love when you report your mates, like I am some bandit of Misplaced Pages. I only reported once a troll who kept doing that, replacing good info with false info.] (]) 13:00, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
	{{ping\|Tgeorgescu}} Just that it was off-article, I expressed my opinion but I didn't add it on the article. Just saying... ] (]) 17:06, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
	**I am really sorry for my reaction and I am apologising again. I worked with Borsoka and Rosenborg fan for many hours on that project, and then the work was removed instead of a talk page message first. Nobody opposed to the spamming (image gallery) after he discussed the matter. You are a very qualified user but you are understimating me as a person and also my work. Btw you are using "much better" words in describing me than I did when I used "trapper". If it would be myself to judge, honestly I would not even judge users like me or you. Because we are a community here, and you can't really say I really break the rules of Misplaced Pages (I am talking for myself). Forbidding work on a topic, Sandstein? Really? Did you see previously what kind of users we had on those topics? All kind of mockers, I can prove most of them are still active and were never forbidden. Where was you or where were the others to keep the good work of Wikipeda as an encyclopedia and not the mockery site regarding Romania? I have seen for long time administrators banning the Romanians instead of the haters, because they treated the problem superficially. Don't you think I can also request enforcement for some users, but why would I do that since I try to get along with all? And then you call me non-collegial. You draw conclusions from two words. It's easy to talk from the outside. ] (]) 19:06, 15 February 2019 (UTC) <small>(Moved here. Don't edit outside of your section again. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 20:27, 15 February 2019 (UTC))</small>
	{{ping\|Tgeorgescu}} When did you agree? You are not administrator (Mr rnddude is a kind user, a real human being, but I think he is also not), it means you retract your reclamation involving me. And you are pushing it to the limits, I see you are doing everything in order to see me in trouble. One thing I can guarantee, I will check there is no steal of identity in the case of real Mr T. (Tudor) Georgescu of the Netherlands. I will mail him, contact him on Facebook, and I will find out who is the person on Youtube in the video (hoping it's not a big hoax). Because at your profile you pretend some personal things. This can also be against the rules of Misplaced Pages. Your hatred could be explained, if you have some association with some users on the page of ]. Because you started hunting me from nowhere, we didn't even edit the same pages. I might be wrong, but what if I am true? Do you think what's strange? You are calling yourself on your page HACKER, threatening with some "hacker manifestos". Great guy, 45 years old and a Christian. Hacker. I ask you kindly to leave me alone, because all the users on Misplaced Pages could be similar with me if we look up. You just invent accusations without reason. Groundless. I don't care I have a big mouth against injustice, even Sandstein agreed I have a big mouth but I should not be judged here. You pretend you are moral and a man of God! Sure, I can't have an opinion, this is similar to the marxism not to the US/UK societes. They do not put their fist in your mouth. ] (]) 20:25, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

			I was ?one of the editors who suggested Tinynanorobots consider ARE in the future. I did this mostly because after three threads on ANI with no result, I felt a change of venue might be more productive especially since the more structured nature of ARE, as well as a likely greater concern over low level of misconduct meant that some outcome was more likely. (For clarity, when I suggested this I did feel nothing would happen from the third ANI thread but in any case my advice being taken onboard would likely mean the third thread had no result.) I did try to make clear that I wasn't saying there was definitely a problem requiring sanction and also it was possible Tinynanorobots might themselves end up sanctioned. Since a topic ban on both is being considered, I might have been right in a way. If a topic ban results, I'd like to suggest admins considered some guidance beyond broadly constructed on how any topic ban would apply. While the entirety of the Yasuke article and the list of foreign born samurai stuff seem clear enough, one concern I've had at ANI is how to handle the editing at ] and its talk page. A lot of the recent stuff involving these editors seems to relate to the definition of samurai. AFAIK, this is generally been a big part of the dispute of Yasuke (he can/can't be a samurai because it means A which was/wasn't true about him). ] (]) 12:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
	{{ping\|EdJohnston}} Not at all, user Tgeorgescu is hunting me down and is harrassing me. I never had any conflict on Misplaced Pages (or at least I wasn't reported), I always proposed consensus if somebody wasn't satisfied with my edits and I rarely want to have the last word. Blocking me from an area which I also love, would be an injustice. I am being judged through some comments, not by my actions. In years, all the users had loads of comments like that. Including you maybe. ] (]) 19:42, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
	{{ping\|Tgeorgescu}} Sure. '''Regarding 1,''' the user had the last word, we had no war of reverts. I first edited by removing a very small comparative part (it was so small, for God's sake, I didn't manipulate anything). Then I explained my revert. It was only one revert, then I wrote him on the talk page. '''Regarding 2.''' It was independent opinion, on the history of Romania I didn't write that. On photos' description the same. It's like, do what the others agreed and not what you think! '''3''' I was rude but I reached a consensus with the guy, and he educated me a little bit. I apologised and I am really apologising once again. In the end I understood he had good intention. '''4''' AGAIN, reporting me for the first 3, of course I was emotional. But I didn't swear anyone. DO YOU STILL CONSIDER RETRACTING THE RECLAMATION? YOU SAID IT. ] (]) 19:55, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

			===Result concerning Ethiopian Epic===
	{{ping\|Tgeorgescu}} At least Sandstein and Mr rnddude didn't find me any guilt. They stand for justice, even Sandstein, although he didn't like my comments! And I apologised before, and now after. If I would have been such a threat, I would have been commented by many administrators and users already in some days already. Generally from what I saw on Misplaced Pages, some admins are not interested really to be judges. But to eliminate any potential threat even if it isn't. I will never forget what you did against me, and as a pretending Christian. You harmed an innocent woman and a simple user. A contributor to the Misplaced Pages, nothing more. Shame on those that stand for injustice. Yes, I am also a big patriot and world's civilisation and culture lover, but not that type of crazy nationalist. ] (]) 20:14, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
			:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
			<!-- When closing this request use {{hat\|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
			*I've never been very impressed with retaliatory filings, and the one below is no exception. I will also note that I'm never too impressed with "must be a sock" type accusations—either file at SPI or don't. In this case, though, I think ] would be better off if neither of these two were participating there. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 19:33, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:{{u\|Red-tailed hawk}}, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			*::I think that it would be declined if it were an ] report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite ] yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — ] <sub>]</sub> 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:::I'm still inclined to topic ban both these editors from ], but would be interested in hearing more thoughts on that if anyone has them. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 07:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
			*I also generally don't like "might-be-a-sock"-style accusations; when we are accusing someone of ] we typically need evidence to substantiate it rather than just floating the possibility in a flimsy way. Filer has provided as possible socks, but each of those IPs geolocates to a different country (Germany, Norway, and Argentina respectively) and I don't see evidence that any of those IPs are proxies.{{pb}}{{yo\|Tinynanorobots}} Can you explain what led you to note the IP edits? Is it merely shared interest and viewpoint, or is there something more?{{pb}}— ] <sub>]</sub> 02:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
			* Looking at this .... mess... first, I'm not sure what actually was against the ArbCom decision - I don't see a 1RR violation being alleged, and the rest really appears to me to be "throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks". But, like Seraphimblade, I'm not impressed with either of these editors actual conduct here or in general. I could be brought around to supporting a topic ban for both of these editors in the interests of clearing up the whole topic area. ] (]) 14:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
			* {{re\|Tinynanorobots}} you are well above the 500 word limit. Please request an extension before adding anything more. ] (]) 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

			==Tinynanorobots==
	{{ping\|Tgeorgescu}} How can I love you, when you keep going with the manipulation? You wrote sentences acting like an admin which you are obviously not. It didn't even matter that you brought false proofs. I had 0 complaints on Misplaced Pages, I feel it's a big shame for me even to be discussed here. '''In any trial, it would be written "unreliable evidence, solution is resolved by rejection (denunciation without reason)."''' But unfortunately I can't defend myself like that. 2 users (1 admin) said not guilty, and another 1 user (admin) said guilty. ] (]) 20:26, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

			<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

			===Request concerning Tinynanorobots===

			; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 19:14, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

			; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks\|Tinynanorobots}}<p>{{ds/log\|Tinynanorobots}}</p>
			<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

			;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
	{{ping\|Tgeorgescu}} I don't "fill" anything, I am not vengeful. I am not on Misplaced Pages to report users, like you. You came from nowhere leaving on my talk page a "warning", when you weren't even admin. Almost 17 years and my Romanians still didn't choose you as administrator. And on your talk page you sent me to the therapy. Yes, you are pretending you are like an admin, but you are not. It's funny the Romanian Misplaced Pages knows you. You are making many users leave Misplaced Pages, Sandstein said something about collegiality. Didn't he? Now after that warning, you are reporting me asking a TBAN. That's very harsh, we never edited together, we never met on Misplaced Pages. Jesus, I told you it's important for me not to be blocked anywhere! The administrators will decide, I will wait for their decision and that's all. But I might leave Misplaced Pages for good. I am really opressed for absolutely nothing. A warning for my big and bad mouth (not the worst though) can be imposed. But that's all. I NEVER GOT A REPORT. I could have got an official warning from an administrator, not from somebody who wants me burned on a pillar like Joan of Arc. I would really want to ignore you, but unfortunately on Misplaced Pages it's not possible. ] (]) 20:45, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
			<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

			; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
			<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->

			#. Tinynanorobots removes {{tq\|As a samurai}} from the lead text and replaces it with {{tq\|signifying bushi status}} against ] ({{tq\|There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification}}).
	{{ping\|Tgeorgescu}} You are just using psychological techniques of manipulation. I see you keep going. First, you are presenting false proofs of my behaviour and ask for a harsh 6 months (you ask a lot to be banned well, or to be surely banned in order to destroy my Misplaced Pages record which was clean). Then you are acting like you are an administrator. Then you take control over all, proposing ban and insisting with banning me. I am telling you to stop replying, then you start increasing the idea that a ban on politics is just nothing, nothing to me. Which is false, really not true! OPPRESSED? Yes, by you, and also harrassed. Not the Romanians, wtf? MYSELF. '''You already agreed with a formal warning''', but just to know I only think I have a bad mouth. And why did you agree first? Just to picture into the good guy, then to return with accusations. ;) TO INCREASE MY GUILT IN THE EYES OF THE ADMINS! I already read about your page and some of your edits, and quite many of them are psychological. A hacker and a manipulator. Well, you are calling yourself a hacker. ] (]) 21:40, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
			#. Tinynanorobots removes {{tq\|who served as a samurai}} from the lead text and adds {{tq\|who became a bushi or samurai}} against ] ({{tq\|There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate}}).
			#. On List of Foreign-born Samurai, Tinynanorobots removes the longstanding definition and adds {{tq\|This list includes persons who ... may not have been considered a samurai}} against ] ({{tq\|There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate}}).
			#. Tinynanorobots reverts to remove {{tq\|As a samurai}} in the Yasuke article after Gitz6666 opposes at , again ignoring ].
			#. I restore and start a so that consensus can be formed.
			#. Tinynanorobots, when consensus fails to form for his position, becomes uncivil and engages in a sarcastic personal attack {{tq\|What you are saying doesn't make sense. Perhaps there is a language issue here. Maybe your native language handles the future differently than English?}}
			#. Tinynanorobots removes "As a samurai" again, ignoring ] and BRD even though no consensus has formed for his position, and no consensus has formed to change existing consensus.
			#. Tinynanorobots explains their reasons, {{tq\|I don't know if samurai is the right term}} which is against consensus.
			#. POV-pushing - With no edit summary Tinynanorobots tag bombs by adding {{tq\|Slavery in Japan}}.

			; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :

			# Explanation
	{{ping\|Tgeorgescu}} Because you have no word and the reclamation was wrong first of all. Retract the reclamation if you said it, you will have my respect, everything is fine. I am certainly not a crazy nationalist. I might be a quality contributor, you don't have many on those pages. I was already attracted by history, culture and civilisations, but I was editing handball until I saw injustice and mockery. On some pages there is equity, on the others was not. Just mockeries. I made a lot of friends. I am not having war or reverts, I am not battling just discussing. I rarely wanted to have the last word, I asked for more opinions. ] (]) 21:51, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
			# Explanation
			<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->

			;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
			<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->

			*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on .

			; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :

			Tinynanorobots frequently edits against consensus, restores his edits when others revert, doesn't wait for consensus, and engages in feuding behavior. He seems to think ] or ] don't apply to him which is disruptive, and I don't know why.
	{{ping\|Tgeorgescu}} You don't even read what I am saying. Do you have problems with your eyes? Mockery has nothing to do with you. I said I started being attracted by those pages because I found mockeries. This was outside our subject. False proofs, I already proved, and 2 guys already voted against my TBAN. Of course it's injustice! You really want to see me banned, don't you? It's talking the rage in you. ] (]) 22:01, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

			- Warning from other editor about repeated removal of content when multiple users are objecting.
	{{ping\|Tgeorgescu}} So Galobtter, top of "my case", was blocked for 1 week. For real accusations and a lot worse than I did. What did I do anyway? Admin Sandstein says he can't accuse me of anything than a big mouth. Compared to you, Galobtter is a real contributor to the English Misplaced Pages and a jurist. You are hunting positions, when we already have volunteers who met eachother in the United States, whilst I am contributing. This is not the Romanian Misplaced Pages where you look for that admin job for 17 years, and they rejected you because of your attitude towards users who are gone now. I HAVE 145 ARTICLES, YOU ONLY HAVE 8. Basically I am accused by a non-contributor. HOW CAN YOU BE ALWAYS RIGHT IF YOU DON'T WORK? That's not me, of course. I am a contributor so I can make mistakes. But not against Misplaced Pages policy. ] (]) 22:08, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

			- Warning from yet another editor about not assuming good faith and making personal attacks
	{{ping\|Tgeorgescu}} Just that you need to bring real proofs. Because it's full of your personal subjectivism. ] (]) 22:14, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

			It seems to be chronic which suggests behavior problems. Tinynanorobots also frequently fails to assume good faith in others. I don't know why as I don't have any issues with him.
	{{ping\|Tgeorgescu}} You can easily use any accusation, about 1000, but without bringing solid, non-weak evidences.. I am sure you will be back. You like my user. I can easily do the same against you, but I am not gonna do that. Against you or anyone who is ok. Your outside behaviour is ok, just your reports are not. The admins will have to understand you really want to see me banned as innocent user, you can't stop, there is something burning in you. ] (]) 22:21, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

			Their preferred edit for Yasuke against the RFC consensus is lead section.

			@] Sorry for the confusion. I think we talking about different edits, so I'll adjust that part. I am referring to Tinynanorobot's repeated removal of {{tq\|As a samurai}} against RFC consensus, which states {{tq\|There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification}}.
	{{ping\|GoldenRing}} With all due respect, NATIONALIST AGENDA? I have barely edited on ]. And in each town I have edited, I just completed the Antiquity or I have added it. This is incredible what's going on and how you treat me superficially. Some user above me really did bad things and was blocked for 1 week, and I can get 3 or 6 month? After all all who proposed this unreal penance? An administrator or a hunting user? If you really want to punish me, without clear evidence (some users and admins found me no guilt, than a big mouth which can be improved since I only have 1 year), punish me 1 week or 2. Do you understand what a harsh and heavy punishment is even 3 months? Put yourself in my place! '''I also want to mention I had no report before, 0 official complaints.''' And now I am with the violators and criminals of the Misplaced Pages? ] (]) 11:05, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

			; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :


	{{ping\|GoldenRing}} Did you even check my edits? On the talk page, I had an opinion, on the page I left exactly like the other history users agreed. I am punished for some personal opinions which were not added by me on the articles. Do you realise how lame is that? On the talk pages, I can have any opinion I want if my actions don't go against the community. Maybe my history education is the problem, but I learned from this and now I check sources like Britannica and not only (Western). For universal writings. ] (]) 11:06, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
			<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

			===Discussion concerning Tinynanorobots===

			<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

			====Statement by Tinynanorobots====
			The accusations made by EE are so misleading as to be evidence against him. Most of what he is discussing is in reference to a successful BRD. I actually discussed the bold edit first on the talk, but didn't get much of a response. I decided a bold edit would get more feedback. The edits were reverted and then discussed. Gitz's main problem was OR, not a RfC violation. This was because he didn't read the cited source. {{tq\|Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text.}}

			I never used any sarcasm, I know that some languages handle how they talk about time differently. It seems reasonable that a translation error could be the reason for EE asking me not to change the article, althoug my edit had already been restored by someone else and at the same time asking me to discuss that I had already discussed and was already discussing. I am disappointed that EE didn't point out that he felt attacked, so that I could apologize.

			This was written in response to another user, and the whole thought is {{tq\|I don't know if samurai is the right term. It is the term a fair amount of sources use, and the one that the RfC says should be used. It is also consistent with common usage in reference to other historical figures.}} In fact earlier in that post I said this: {{tq\|I am not qualified to say whither or not Yasuke having a house meant that he was a samurai}} This is blatantly taking a quote out of context in order to prejudice the Admins against me.

			:@] I filed here, because the last time I filed at ANI it was suggested that I bring things here if things continue by an Admin. I try to follow advice, although I keep getting conflicting signals from Admins. I am most concerned that you find my work on ] and ] not adding anything helpful. My suggestion to rewrite the way samurai was defined on the List in order to reduce OR and bring it in line with WP:LSC was meant with unanimous approval by those who responded. Samurai is a high importance article that has tags on it from years back, is unorganized and contains outdated information. I am not the best writer, but I have gotten some books, and am pretty much the only one working on it.

			::I just thought that the Admins here should know about the ongoing SPI

			====Statement by Relm====
			I am the editor alluded to and quoted as 'protesting' Tinynanorobots edit. When I originally made that topic, I was fixing a different edit which left the first sentence as a grammatically incomplete sentence. When I looked at it in the editing view, one of the quotes in the citation beforehand was quoting Atkins Vera, and I mistook this for the opening quote having been changed. When I closed the editing menu I saw 'signifying samurai status' in the second paragraph and confused the two for each other as I had not noticed the addition of the latter phrase a little under a month ago. I realized my mistake almost immediately after I posted the new topic, and made this () edit to clarify my mistake while also attempting to instead direct the topic towards making sure that the edit recieved sufficient assent from Gitz (it did) and to talk about improvements that could be made to the opening sentence. I further clarified and made clear that I was not accusing Tinynanorobots of having done anything wrong in a later response ().

			Though many of their earlier edits on the page may show some issues, as they grew more familiar with the past discussions I believe that Tinynanorobots has made valuable contributions to the page in good faith. ] (]) 03:21, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Statement by Barkeep49====
			*:@] I think this misinterprets the ArbCom decision. So Yakuse is a contentious topic ''and'' it has a 1RR restriction, in the same way as say PIA. As in PIA administrators can sanction behavior that violates the ] besides 1RR. Beyond that, editing ] is a finding of fact from the case. ] (]) 16:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

	====Statement by Mr rnddude====
	Procedural comments: 1) {{u\|Cristina neagu}}, comments are to be posted in independent sections. That is, don't post in another person's section. If you need to notify them, use the messaging system (]s). 2) Tgeorgescu is pushing for a six month TBAN, not a six month block. A TBAN will prevent you from editing in a specific area of Misplaced Pages, but will not exempt you from contributing elsewhere. <br><br>Comments on proposed TBAN: That said, a six month TBAN is an ''extremely harsh'' first step. For one, the issue presented is entirely localized to Romania. I can see no fathomable reason to extend a TBAN to cover ''all of Eastern Europe'' which spans from Poland/Croatia/Greece? to Estonia/Russia. Far too broad in scope. But, at this time, I don't really see a need to prohibit Cristina neagu from contributing to Romania topics either. The diffs presented are problematic (I loathe that word), and if persistent might be cause to TBAN. Right now, however, a warning to refrain from posting remarks about users ethnicities, or using ethnicity to further an argument, and to be more civil should suffice. Every editor, who is editing in good faith, has as much a right to edit/discuss any article on Romanian history as you. <br><br> Short comment on content: {{tq\|Our kings? Romanians did not exist back then}} - You can practically ignore the ethnogenesis issue here. Trajan, emperor of ''Rome'' born in ''Spain'', could under no conceivable definition be claimed to be a ''Romanian king''. ] (]) 12:30, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

	====Statement by (username)====		====Statement by (username)====

	<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->		<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

	===Result concerning ~~Cristina neagu~~===		===Result concerning Tinynanorobots===

	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''		:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''

			* As above, I'm failing to see what exactly is against the ArbCom case rulings - I don't see a 1RR violation. But also as above, I'm coming to the view that neither of these editors are adding anything helpful to the topic area and am leaning towards a topic ban for both. ] (]) 14:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
	<!-- When closing this request use {{hat\|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->		<!-- When closing this request use {{hat\|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->

	* Well, most of these edits don't indicate much more than some serious competence issues (in terms of the English language and perhaps otherwise) on the part of Cristina neagu, but the "you know nothing about Romania since you are a Canadian trapper" comment is quite a bit more concerning. Cristina neagu doesn't come across to me as the type of knowledgeable, competent and collegial person we want to be editing sensitive and complicated topics. Thoughts by other admins? <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 18:41, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
			*<!--
	:*Close with a six-month topic ban. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 12:24, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

	*]'s comments above are the type of nationalist editing philosophy that the sanctions are intended to deter. I support the topic ban. ] (]) 14:26, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
			-->
	* Topic ban for Cristina neagu on all topics related to Romania broadly construed looks like a good starting point here.--] (]) 15:11, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
	* My thoughts generally align with Sandstein's above. While there is an evident nationalist agenda going on here, it is relatively difficult to pick out from general English-language competence problems. I agree with Mr rnddude that a six month ban from everything Eastern European would be excessive; a ban from Romanian topics I think would be appropriate but don't have a strong feeling on three months v six months. ] (]) 09:32, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
	{{hab}}

			==Selfstudier==
	==Springee, Trekphiler and RAF910==
			{{hat\|1={{nobold\|1=No evidence of misconduct was presented. Filer ] is informally warned against frivolous filings. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">[]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 02:36, 19 December 2024 (UTC)}}}}}
	{{hat\|1=Springee, Trekphiler, RAF910 and Dlthewave are warned not to misuse Misplaced Pages as a forum for ] unrelated to Misplaced Pages, or attacking or vilifying groups of editors, persons, or other entities. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 07:51, 23 February 2019 (UTC)}}
	<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>		<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

	===Request concerning ~~Springee~~===		===Request concerning Selfstudier===
	; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks\|~~Dlthewave~~}} 05:48, 18 ~~February~~ ~~2019~~ (UTC)		; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks\|Allthemilescombined1}} 02:43, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

	; User against whom enforcement is requested :		; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks\|Selfstudier}}<p>{{ds/log\|Selfstudier}}</p>


			<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	<p>{{userlinks\|Springee}}<p>{{ds/log\|Springee}}

			;Sanction or remedy to be enforced:
	<p>{{userlinks\|Trekphiler}}<p>{{ds/log\|Trekphiler}}
			]

			<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
	<p>{{userlinks\|RAF910}}<p>{{ds/log\|RAF910}}

	;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]

	; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :		; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
			<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->

			# Concern for ] violation when Selfstudier told me on my talk page: “enough now.This is a warning to cease and desist with the WP:ASPERSIONS and general unhelpfulness at the Zionism article.”
	Note: This pattern of POV-pushing involves three editors. I hope that submitting them together is not problematic.
			# Selfstudier dismissed my source {{ISBN\|9798888459683}}, with “Bernard-Henri Lévy is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”.

			# Selfstudier dismissed my source Adam Kirsch {{ISBN\|978-1324105343}} “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint". These dismissive comments are uncivil.
	These diffs and quotes are merely examples; the entire discussion should be read for context.
			# Concerning for possible ] and ] violations. Editors with one POV swarmed RM:6 December 2024 and closed it immediately for SNOW. Selfstudier immediately archived parts of this discussion, including my comments, while leaving the parts that supported their POV.
	# Springee posts at WikiProject Firearms expressing concern that the "Criminal use" list at ] is {{tq\|"out of control"}}. RAF910 and Trekphiler chime in with POV-pushing comments: {{tq\|"...there are too many anti-gun editors who are pushing a political agenda, and doing everything in their power to gang-up on and ban pro-gun editors. So, despite our best efforts, I'm afraid there is very little we do about it at this time. Just "VOTE and HOPE" that enough editors realize where this is going and are willing to do something to stop it."}} {{tq\|"If it didn't lead to a change in the law, what impact did it have on Glock? Show that., & maybe it merits inclusion"}}. These complaints are not a substantial consensus-building discussion and none of the arguments are based in policy, however it is cited later as prior consensus. My suggestion to discuss at ] was ignored.
	# Trekphiler blanks the ''entire'' Criminal Use section with the summary {{tq\|"which of these led to changes in law enough to impact Glock sales? none."}} This is not consistent with any current guideline and seems to be based on a deprecated WP:FIREARMS criminal use recommendation.
	# After I reinstated the section, Trekphiler removes it again with a personal attack in the edit summary: {{tq\|"don't need to show impact? it smells like gun-confiscator propaganda otherwise}}
	# Springee opens a discussion: {{tq\|"The list of crimes was deleted last November. A discussion with respect to the list was had here ]]]. Involved editors were myself, ], ] and ]. The concern and consensus was this had become an indiscriminate list of crimes with no indication that those crimes were associated with Glock in general. It is not clear that external RSs about the Glock company commonly include long lists of crimes. This isn't to say that a crime section can't be supported via RSs but we should base our inclusion and the associations of any particular crime with external sources about Glock that make that association."}} This raises several concerns: By linking the editors, Springee is effectively canvassing a group of editors who expressed support for his position; the previous, unsubstantial discussion is now referred to as "consensus"; and Springee is setting a high bar for inclusion, requiring that all sources in the criminal use section be about Glock specifically, an expectation which is not applied to any other section of the article. When challenged, Springee seems to apply a double standard to justify removing criminal use content while retaining information about police and military users: {{tq\|"The list is out of control because it is long, has no content other than "Crime X included a Glock" and is indiscriminate because no justification for inclusion was offered or suggested."}} (even though the Users section consists almost entirely of "Agency X uses Glocks" entries); {{tq\|" it is common in firearms articles to discuss police and military users"}} (while requiring that criminal use section be justified for inclusion in this specific article.)
	# Trekphiler makes an uncivil accusation: {{tq\|”This list is nothing but an effort to dirty Glock firearms, & by extension, all firearms. I don't see a "criminal use" section for the ] or the ]. Why not? Because there's a hate-on for guns. “}}
	# After reliable sources including the Washington Post are provided to support the Criminal Use section, Springee makes dubious claims that they are {{tq\|”basicallly content free”}} and insists that more sources be found. This is accompanied by unproductive, rambling walls of text about everything from police departments using Glocks to something about F-150s.
	# RAF910 canvasses Drmies, an editor who previously supported removal, and misleadingly assesses consensus by counting votes.
	# RAF910 makes a false accusation of forum shopping (I did not start any of the discussions) and assesses prior consensus by counting votes.

	Taken together in the context of the overall discussion, these comments represent a pattern of obstruction to the consensus-building process by refusing to work toward a compromise, refusing to accept that consensus may change and setting ever-higher bars for inclusion of criminal use content. The initial discussion on the Wikiproject Firearms page and selective notification of editors raise canvassing concerns as well.

	; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :		; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
	<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->		<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->

	;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):		;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
	<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->		<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
			*Otherwise made edits indicating an awareness of the contentious topic.
	* Springee alerted
	* Trekphiler alerted
	* RAF910 alerted

	; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :		; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
			On I/P topics, my edits on numerous occasions have been reverted almost immediately, by Selfstudier and their fellow editors who seem to be always hanging around I/P, and "owning" the topic area. They are creating a hostile editing environment and are violating NPOV.
	*It should be self-evident that I did not come here to resolve the content dispute. I came here to address problematic behavior surrounding the dispute which has been impeding the consensus-building process. I find it particularly odd that Cullen328's statement consists entirely of their opinion on the dispute and implies that these editors being "right" somehow nullifies the civility issue. The comments presented here, by myself and others, would be unacceptable anywhere on Misplaced Pages and certainly should not be tolerated in a Discretionary Sanctions topic area.

			Concerns for possible ] and ] violations:
	RAF910 has pointed out some of my writing on the topic and I too would encourage folks to read ]. It is understandable that this may be viewed as polemical, however I feel that it is important to highlight the long-term pattern and I've been careful not to name individual editors. I view this episode as a continuation of the pattern described there.
	My goal is not to add criminal use to every firearm article or block everyone who disagrees with me. I just want to discuss it in a civil, open manner without being accused of bias.

			*Abo Yemen dismissed my reasoned arguments as “feelings”:
	I find it interesting that Wikiproject Firearms members have repeatedly stated that criminal use is outside the scope of the project (most recently in ) yet the project pages are still being used to provide recommendations on criminal use content and begrudgingly notify fellow editors of "out of control" lists. The ] in developing best practices for criminal use content is one reason that I started the Gun Politics Task Force, an idea first ] in 2015 by project members who did not want to get involved with political topics. It seems that their idea of "not getting involved" has evolved to mean excluding this content from articles within the scope of the project.

			*RolandR dismissed the author of "Saying No to Hate: Overcoming Antisemitism in America", {{ISBN\|978-0827615236}}, as a “non-notable children’s writer”:
	The fact that RAF10 has made only two brief comments actually highlights part of the problem: They have made no attempt to actually discuss the content in question. –] ] 15:01, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

			*Zero told me “We should stick to history books and not cite emotional polemics”.
	*{{u\|GoldenRing}} I attempted to explain the purpose of my Signpost opinion submission above and ''Whitewashing of firearms articles'' was an essential supplement to that piece. I feel that it is important for editors to be aware of the long-standing pattern that has been taking place, including in cases like this where the issue is a continuation of something that has been going on for over a decade. I was careful not to include usernames. Is this a sufficient explanation or should we continue this in an appeal discussion? –] ] 14:37, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

			Concerns for possible ] and ] violations:

			*Smallangryplanet accused me of WP:SYNTH and reverted my edits as irrelevant to the article on Holocaust inversion: whereas the article, prior to vandalism, resembled:

			*Nableezy added that the only material that can be relevant to the aforementioned article is that which compares Israel to Nazi Germany, ignoring that such comparisons are antisemitic.

			*Levivich asked me “Why are these academic sources relevant to the discussion? How did you select them?” and added “I won’t bother reading the other two, I'll assume they also say the same thing that everybody else says.” (referring to Katz, Segev, and Goren)

			*Valeree wrote “If you'll read this talk page rather thoroughly so that you can bring yourself up to speed, you'll probably find fewer editors making sarcastic remarks about your suggestions.”

			Concerns for possible ] violations:
			*Sean.hoyland accused me of “advocacy and the expression of your personal views about the real world” and told me to see MOS:TERRORIST and accused me of violating WP:NOTFORUM and WP:NOTADVOCACY:

			*Sameboat wrote: "Please take extra attention to this recent ECU whose edits to I-P articles look rather deceptive to me".

			Concerns for possible ] violations:
			*Sameboat wrote on my talk page about Gaza genocide, though they were not involved in the earlier discussion, warning me about WP:NOTFORUM RM:6 December 2024.

			Selected examples of my edits which were reverted within hours or minutes (this list is far from comprehensive):
			* by Butterscotch Beluga claiming vandalism against a University of Michigan regent was irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests because it happened off campus;
			* by Zero arguing that an egregious antisemitic incident 'fails WP:WEIGHT by a mile'
			* by Abo Yemen removing my additions to Palestinian perspectives comparing Israel to Nazi Germany from a section on exactly that; along with and by Smallangryplanet;
			* by AlsoWukai removing the disappearance of the ]'s $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide.

			In summary, I have experienced a pattern of consistent, and what appears to be organized, intimidation from a small group of editors.

	; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :		; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
	* ~~Springee~~
	* Trekphiler
	* RAF910

			===Discussion concerning Selfstudier===
	<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
			<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
	===Discussion concerning Springee, Trekphiler and RAF910===
	<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
	====Statement by Springee====
	I don't understand why we are even here. This is a content dispute. The claim of improper notification Dlthewave made was wrong as APPNOTE specifically says notifying previously involved editors is not canvasing. However, when a few months after participating in said discussion Dlthewave reverts a consensus edit that is a problem. Rather than disputing the consensus Dlthewave ignored it. Since Dlthewave is concerned about improper notification I would point out that the project the editor started has a goal to add content such as mass shootings into firearms article when possible ]. The ~10 project editors have been nearly unanimous in their opinions on such material. Why wouldn't any notice to such a sympathetic project be automatically seen as improper notification? Dlthewave isn't a "bad guy" or anything and, even though I think this ARE is way off base, I think in general they are acting in good faith. However, this is a very inappropriate use of ARE to try to address a content dispute. Finally, I would suggest that Dlthewave's own POV is very strong in this area. Consider that in their Signpost submission, towards the end of their article, they implied that editors such as myself were keeping criminal content out of an article against a general RfC discussion (]) but neglected to mention to readers that this was due to a ]. If there is PUSH I would say it is in both directions but also, even in Dlthewave's case, all within Wiki policies and guidelines. ] (]) 11:52, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

			====Statement by Selfstudier====
	'''Legacypac's comments'''
	:LP's history of INCIVILITY towards me should be kept in mind when reading this. The editor was blocked (later lifted with a warning) for their attacks against me. Block log ], related talk page discussions ], ]. Unsubstantiated accusations of COI are certainly not assuming good faith when I have already stated I have no COI in this area. Never have, unlikely I ever will. Also, I'm not an NRA member, never have been. ] (]) 11:58, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
	::{{ping\|Legacypac}}, do not come to my talk page to accuse me of lying here. ] If you feel something I said here was a lie then show your cards. I am tired of your accusations. ] (]) 04:37, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
	:::Your follow up comment does not show where I "lied". Here is the block warning ] in question. ] (]) 04:54, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

			====Statement by Sean.hoyland====
	'''Additional follow up comments'''
			I see I've been mentioned but not pinged. That's nice. I encourage anyone to look at the diffs and . Why are there editors in the topic area apparently ignoring ] and ]? It's a mystery. It is, and has always been, one of the root causes of instability in the topic area and wastes so much time. Assigning a cost to advocacy might reduce it. Either way, it needs to be actively suppressed by enforcement of the ] policy. It's a rule, not an aspiration. ] (]) 15:23, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Statement by Butterscotch Beluga====
	{{user\|MastCell}}, I'm not clear if you are suggesting I've engaged in battle ground behavior. I wouldn't think so. I've tried to engage editors like Dlthewave and K.e.coffman on their talk pages specifically to avoid civility issues. As K.e.coffman said, I have been civil. I do suspect I'm long winded and willing to post my concerns. I can see how that can be seen as stonewalling. You suggested I moved a goal post with respect to the Glock crime inclusion. I don't believe I have. I suggested that the sort of articles that could establish WEIGHT would be articles "about Glock" that talk about mass shootings. Never did I claim that simply finding any example should be sufficient. To K.e.coffman's credit they found two articles along those lines. Not to dive too deeply into the content dispute but the articles are of limited quality and don't draw any causal links. Basically I don't think they provide encyclopedic content. I said as much.
			I didn't say it was ''"irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests"'' as a whole. The edit I reverted was specifically at ], so as I said, the ''"Incident did not occur at a university campus so is outside the scope of this article"''. We have other articles like ] & more specifically ] that are more in scope of your proposed edit. - ] (]) 20:52, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
	I did not remove the new material from the article. I don't see how a civil disagreement on the talk page is stonewalling nor do I see how this isn't part of the process.

			====Statement by Huldra====
	(new edit) {{ping\|MastCell}}, I don't think I have ever claimed this is a gun control issue nor accused others of promoting gun control. I have supported inclusion of criminal material in firearms articles (Mini-14, AR-15 style rifle). I can also point to examples where I was part of the consensus that opposed it (S&W M&P15, M1911). In the case of Glock, yes, I felt the WP and VICE articles don't do a good job of establishing weight for inclusion. However, after a sock added a new source I have stated I favor inclusion (but not as currently written).] I think it's unfair to classify my objections based on weight as some sort of anti-gun control mindset in my edits. ] (]) 21:21, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
			I wish the filer would have wiki-linked names, then you would easily have seen that ] "is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”, or that ] “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint", ] (]) 22:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Statement by RolandR====
	{{user\|K.e.coffman}}, I appreciate that you acknowledge the civility. I don't agree with much of what you have said here but I also view you as civil. So first, how do you think my question at WP:Firearms ] would be canvasing? I made no edits to the article but I did raise a question. I suppose you could argue that the sort of editors who watch that talk page are likely to be sympathetic. However, wouldn't that same concern apply to anything posted to ], the project Dlthewave started? The few participants listed have been strident in trying to add crime material to many firearms pages. Look at the list of Collaborations and Related discussions. Every case is a discussion regarding the inclusion of crime content in a gun article. How is that different?
			I too have been mentioned above, and complained about, but not been notified. If this is not a breach of Misplaced Pages regulations, then it ought to be.

			As for the substance, I see that I am accused of describing ] as a "non-notable children’s writer". Norman H. Finkelstein was indeed a children's writer, as described in most reports and obituaries. At the time of the original edit and my revert, he was not considered sufficiently notable to merit a Misplaced Pages article; it was only a week later that the OP created an article, of which they have effectively been the only editor. So I stand by my characterisation, which is an accurate and objective description of the author.
	Anyway, based on the WP:Guns discussion the long list of crimes was removed from the article. Even now it appears that editors agree that the long, indiscriminate list should not be in the article. Pinging the involved editors when the topic came up again in February was APPNOTE (see Mr rnddude's statement below).

			Further, I was concerned that a casual reader might be led to confuse this writer with the highly significant writer ]; in fact, I made my edit after ] had made this mistake and linked the cited author to the genuinely notable person.
	Yes, I did feel the proposal you highlighted at the S&W M&P15 page was forum shopping because less than two years earlier we had a RfC with significant participation looking at the exact same content.]. I think my view that nothing had changed was vindicated by the result of the recent RfC that reached the same conclusion as the previous one. How should editors feel when people simply ignore previous RfCs?

			This whole report, and the sneaky complaints about me and other editors, is entirely worthless and should be thrown out.
	You said that based on previous AEs I should know about problematic behaviors. I agree. This is one of the reasons why I work very hard to remain civil, even in the face of attacks such as those LP has leveled against me here thus I'm not sure why you would highlight "Personalizing disputes" or "canvasing" given, as others have noted, we are dealing with APPNOTE. I do have a long term concern that is shared with other editors who have worked in the area of firearms. It does seem that some editors really push on the crime aspects by trying to put lists of crimes into every article. I have weight concerns with that which I've expressed with others and even asked Dlthewave to help with ]. What I've seen is many of those editors got frustrated and found that either they did take things too far and violated CIVIL or they gave up and left that article space. So while I think it is incivil to suggest an objective to chase away editors who don't agree with a POV, I can understand why others feel that way.
			<span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 22:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
			====Statement by Zero0000====
			by OP is illustrative. It is just a presentation of personal belief with weak or irrelevant sources. I don't see evidence of an ability to contribute usefully. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 00:31, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Statement by Sameboat====
	:Additional edit: {{ping\|K.e.coffman}}, I'm sorry that your reply was to back away from an acknowledgement of civil but didn't include answers to any of my questions/concerns ] (]) 02:50, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
			It is clear that the filer has failed to understand my message, which was a warning about repeated violations of the NotForum policy. Instead, they have misinterpreted my actions, as well as those of others, as part of a coordinated "tag team." I raised my concerns on ] after the filer's edit on the ] article regarding its controversy, which failed to properly attribute the information to its source—the Israeli government. This filing is a complete waste of time, and serious sanctions should be imposed on the filer if similar issues occur again in the future. -- ] (] · ]) 02:17, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Statement by AlsoWukai====
	'''But I do have a solution''': I think one of the best things we could do for this problem, ie should crimes be added to many of these articles, is to visit the question of WEIGHT. I've discussed this a number of times and will throw it out here just in case. Does weight have reciprocity? That is, if A is significant to B, does that mean B is significant to A? In the case of some gun crimes people have argued, "the crime was significant and articles about the crime mention the gun thus the gun article must mention the crime". Other times we have decided that even if the crime was significant and a tool of the crime was significant, that doesn't mean the crime appears on the tool's article. For example, after a RfC it was clearly decided that it was UNDUE to include the ] in the ] article. Perhaps if we could answer this question we would cut down the back and forth.
			Contrary to the filer's complaint, I never made an edit "removing the disappearance of the ANC's $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide." I can only conclude that the filer misread the edit history. ] (]) 20:55, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

	===Statement by ~~Cullen328~~===		====Statement by Valereeee====
			The diff allthemiles links to above is me responding to their post (in which they complained about a mildly sarcastic remark by another editor) where they said, "If respectful discussion is not possible, administrative involvement will be needed." I've been trying to keep up at that article talk, so I responded giving them my take on it.
	I am neither pro-gun nor anti-gun and feel that I am neutral because I have been criticized roughly equally by people on both sides of that debate. But if someone added content to an article about a kitchen knife manufacturer reporting that some criminal stabbed someone with a knife made by that company, I would object. Undue weight. It would be inappropriate, in my view, if someone added content to an article about a company that rents trucks stating that company inadvertently rented a truck to someone who carried out a truck bombing. It would be inappropriate to add content to articles about Home Depot or Lowe's or any other home improvement company reporting that somebody bought supplies there that were used to build a terrorist bomb. All bets are off, of course, if such a company was proved negligent in a court of law. Last time I checked, sales and ownership of firearms remains legal in the United States for the vast majority of adult citizens. And the overwhelming majority of legally owned firearms have never been used in a crime or any act of violence. Personally, I favor universal background checks and other reasonable restrictions on gun ownership so the so-called "pro-gun" editors might be wary of me. But really. If reliable sources report that celebrity X died of alcoholism, and their favorite beverage was Cutty Sark should we add that to ]? I do not think so. Undue weight and soapboxing. This should be declined. ] ] 07:36, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

			I tried to keep engaging, trying to help them understand the challenges for less experienced editors trying to work in the topic, offering advice on how they could get up to speed at that particular article, even offering to continue the discussion at their talk or mine. ] (]) 14:29, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by RAF910====
	Please read ], ] and ] "Opinion: Firearms". Where Dlthewave portrayed himself as the epic hero fighting the forces of darkness. Basically, this is in direct violation of ]. Also, see ] "Requested move 19 May 2018" where on 4 June 2018 there was a consensus NOT to move this page to ] or ]. However, 18 January 2019‎, Dlthewave ignored said consensus and created (backdoor) redirects to said page anyway. This is also clearly a violation of ]. Also, he is constantly accusing his fellow editors of acting in bad faith and violating Wiki policies. And, as you can see he is adept at ]. Dlthewave's edit history speaks for itself. I believe it's his ultimate goal to get as many "pro-gun' editors as possible blocked or topic-banned, so they cannot interfere with his crusade.--] (]) 06:50, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

			:@], editors working in PIA are brought here often and bring other editors here often for various reasons, and it doesn't always mean a given editor is problematic. For instance, the particular appearance you're referring to was brought here by a suspected sock of an LTA. I've seen admins working here who don't work in PIA wonder if the fact someone is brought here often or brings others here often means that editor is a problem, and I get why it feels like some issue ''with that editor'' has to be a factor, but in my experience it isn't usually. Some of the best editors working in that area are brought here for spurious reasons, and also need to bring other editors here for valid reasons. And some of the worst offenders there avoid AE. ] (]) 11:45, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
	Springee, Thank you for reminding me. On 11 April 2018,‎ Dlthewave started the ] page with the expressed purpose of adding "criminal use" sections to firearm articles. Again, showing that he is a self declared ]. --] (]) 18:55, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

			===Result concerning Selfstudier===
	MastCell, is wrong. I have made no effort to "to move the goalposts" or " responded with a litany of excuses that seem fundamentally like stonewalling." If you read the ] page, the only editor moving the goal post is Dlthewave. I have only made two edits to this page, and only one edit in this regard..."'''OPPOSE''' the addition of a criminal use section in any form, for reason already stated.--RAF910 (talk) 00:07, 12 February 2019 (UTC)". The other edit was..."Starting a new discussion on the same issue, is just another attempt at forum shopping. The above discussion is 2 for and 4 against inclusion of a criminal use section.--RAF910 (talk) 19:31, 17 February 2019 (UTC)" after Dlthewave restored the "Criminal use" section against the aforementioned 2 to 4 consensus.....Also, how anyone could say that I'm trying to shut down the discussion at the ] page with these two edits is patently ridiculous. The only editor trying to shut down discussions here is Dlthewave who is constantly accusing his fellow editors of acting in bad faith and violating Wiki policies. see ], ] and ] --] (]) 21:06, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
			:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
			* While I'm on record as saying that the topic area could us more civility from editors, I'm failing to see anything actionable against the editor filed against here. There's an edit from Oct that isn't great but not even begining to get into my "not civil" category. Then there's a perfectly civil statement about a source from 3 Nov (Hint - "Bernard-Henri Lévy is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism" is exactly the type of discussion that SHOULD be taking place in a contentious topic - it's focused on the source and does not mention any editors at all. The full comment "There is nothing to suggest Bernard-Henri Lévy is an expert on Zionism or colonialism. As I said, it is rather simple to find a source saying what you want it to say, whether that's a WP:BESTSOURCE is another matter." is still quite civil and focused on the source - nothing in this is worth of sanctioning....) The other statement from 3 Nov is also focused on the merits of the source. The fact that it isn't agreeing with your source analysis does not make it dismissive nor uncivil. Frankly, it's quite civil and again, what is expected in a contentious topic - source-based discussion. The comment from 6 Dec is also not uncivil.
			* The rest of the filing is not about Selfstudier and is instead an excellent example of (1) throwing a whole bunch of diffs out hoping something will stick to someone and (2) an example of why filings in this area often turn into huge messess that can't reach resolution. This is supposed to be a filing about Selfstudier's behavior - instead most of it is about a grab-bag of other edits from many other editors, and frankly, seems to be motivated by the filer feeling that they aren't being taken seriously enough or something. I'm not going to read any of these diffs because they are not about the editor you filed against and my time is worth something and we should not reward abuse of this process by this sort of grab-bag-against-everyone-that-disagreed-with-an-editor filing.
			* The only reason I'm not going for a boomerang against the filer is that they have only been editing for about six months and this is the first AE filing they've done. Let me suggest that they do not file another one like this - it's a waste of admin time. ] (]) 14:48, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
			*I second Ealdgyth's reading. The presented diffs against Selfstudier are not actionable, and a lot of the complaint is not about Selfstudier at all. I don't believe the filing alone is grounds for sanction on the filer, but if someone wishes to present more evidence against them I suggest they do so in a separate report. ] (]) 21:27, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
			*I stumbled into this by accident and I don't do these requests anymore, but I wonder if filer should edit outside the subject area until they have much more experience in ] and dispute resolution.YMMV. Best] (]) 08:03, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			*Another case on this editor was just closed a week ago, is there any relation between this filing and issues brought up in ]? It seems like some editors are brought to AE on a weekly basis. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 08:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
			{{hab}}

			==Rasteem==
	Dlthewave latest comment confirms that he knows that I have not engaged in any disruptive behavior. He's just upset that I have only made "two brief comments" and that I'm not willing to get involved in long drawn out discussions. He also acknowledges that it's understandable that his edits may be viewed as polemical, but he feels it is important to highlight what he believe to be long-term patterns. I don't know, or care why
			<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
	Dlthewave is here...I want no part of it.--] (]) 19:03, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

	===~~=Statement~~ by ~~Mr rnddude=~~===		===Request concerning Rasteem===
			; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks\|NXcrypto}} 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
	{{tq\|Springee opens a discussion ... This raises several concerns: By linking the editors, Springee is effectively '''canvassing a group of editors who expressed support for his position'''}}. Really? {{tq\|Involved editors were myself, '''Dlthewave''', RAF910 and Trekphiler.}} <- The OP is the second name on the list of those notified, and only four people commented . So everyone that was there was notified. So there's a falsehood.

			; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks\|Rasteem}}<p>{{ds/log\|Rasteem}}</p>
	Sigh. I couldn't read past there, although I see Drmies is also named. Fascinating that a pro-gun editor should canvass a ''gun-control advocate''. ] (]) 07:16, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
	:{{u\|GoldenRing}} - ? it was closed as ''decide on a case-by-case'' basis if I recall correctly. ] (]) 08:02, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

			<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	====Statement by Legacypac====
	I follow the ] article where Springee can be counted on to push a "nothing negative about the NRA or guns" agenda. He denies any COI but from what I've seen the NRA should be sending him thank-you cards and maybe an honorarium for his dedicated efforts. Such volunteer dedication is truly rare. I'm not familiar with the other editors named here. ] (]) 09:12, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
	::Springee decided to dig up how they managed to turn a comment about their whitewashing of the NRA article into a short, inappropriate and quickly lifted block against me. . I'd forgotten they did that. Just shows how relentless their POV pushing and wikilawyering is against anyone that tries to hold a NPOV line. ] (]) 04:48, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

			;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
	====Statement by Trekphiler====
			<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
	Personal attack? Seriously? At what point did I even mention my alleged target's username? (Hell, I don't even ''know'' it. Or care.) POV-pushing? That has to be the thinnest excuse for a POV push I've ever seen. I do believe the Glock page's "criminal use" section should be remvoed, because all it does is catalog crimes with ''no'' particular cultural or historical significance & ''no'' impact on any laws, nor on Glock's policies or sales. As such, IMO, ''including'' it is POV ''against'' firearms. My views on the subject are strongly held, & may be strongly stated. I will offer no apologies for that. So, I would suggest this is an effort to silence criticism or an opposing point of view rather than persuade or achieve consensus. (That "consensus" may amount to nothing beyond a narrow majority vote is a policy matter better dealt with elsewhere.) Since I expect to be held to a different standard from anybody else, as always, I will expect a topic ban, if not an outright indefinite site ban, any second now. So be it. Good riddance. ] ] 18:20, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

			; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
	====Statement by K.e.coffman====
			<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
	I've participated in these debates and I would like to highlight a long-term pattern of uncollegial behaviour, the voicing of conspiracy theories, and general failure to assume good faith on article Talk pages & via edit summaries. For example, Trekpiler persists with his theme of a " confiscator lobby" which the editors who do not agree with him apparently belong to:
			# - removed wikilink of an Indian railway station thus violating his topic ban from India and Pakistan.

			This violation comes after he was already warned for his first violation of the topic ban.
	WP:GUNS Talk page, February 2018:
	*Every time there's a mass shooting, the gun confiscators come out & blame the weapon for the crime.
	*And there are evidently some confiscators involved, too, or we wouldn't have somebody trying to put the event on the S&W page in the first place

			Upon a closer look into his recent contribution, I found that he is simply ] the system by creating articles like ] which is overall only 5,400 bytes but he made nearly 50 edits here. This is clearly being done by Rasteem for passing the 500 edits mark to get his topic ban overturned.
	Smith & Wesson Talk page
	*March 2018: Naah... The confiscators will still rather take guns away from law-abiding people.
	*April 2018: As for the proposition the page is written as a promo or fansite page, that is simply preposterous, and smells of another effort by the confiscator lobby.

			I recommend increasing the topic ban to indefinite duration. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
	Glock, Nov 2018, via edit summary:
	*

			; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : "topic banned from the subject of India and Pakistan, broadly construed, until both six months have elapsed and they have made 500 edits after being notified of this sanction."
	RAF910 expresses similar sentiments, with accusations of "crusades", "missions", etc.
	*Colt AR-15 Talk page, April 2018:
	*Compare with RAF910's comment in this report: "I believe it's his ultimate goal to get as many "pro-gun' editors as possible blocked or topic-banned, so they cannot interfere with his crusade."

			;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
	Springee is at least civil, but he misunderstands canvassing. This was a clear case at WP:GUNS: . He then uses that discussion to claim prior consensus on the Glock Talk page, as detailed in OP's report. Springee (along with RAF910) has also accused others of forum shopping on article Talk pages. See for example, Smith & Wesson M&P15 Talk page, October 2018 , four instances of "forum shopping" from Springee and one from RAF910. I discussed with Springee .

			; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
	Springee participated in prior AE requests in the topic area, so he should have known about the problematic behaviours highlighted there, such as "personalizing disputes" (]), and "Canvassing amongst project members or by using project pages will be heavily frowned upon" (]). --] (]) 00:06, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
			<!-- Add any further comment here -->
	*I should qualify my statement about civility as being too generous. Using article Talk pages to accuse others of "forum shopping" is not civil. It's ]. If one has an issue with another editor's behaviour, then article Talk pages are not an appropriate venue. --] (]) 02:03, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
	{{ping\|Drmies}} re: double standard on sourcing, I do believe that Springee fundamentally misunderstands NPOV and does have a double standard. For example, he argued on the NRA talk page:
	*"If the source doesn't provide the full response then we certainly can. (...) Yes, it's even better if the NRA has a statement that is a direct response to our news article...." & "I think in most cases we can find articles that say the NRA disagreed but often they don't provide the full statement. If that statement is available we should provide it."

			*I agree that there are genuine CIR issues with Rasteem, for example while this ARE report is in progress they created ], which has promotional statements like: "The lake's stunning caluts, majestic desert topographies, and serene lakes produce a shifting destination. Its unique charm attracts a wide range of guests, from adventure contenders to nature suckers and beyond". ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:26, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
	Source: ] (a protracted discussion). I was reminded of this 2018 thread because of Springee arguing, a year later, that '']'' is a suitable sources in the article on '']'': . I don't think that any lessons have been learned. ----] (]) 03:05, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
			; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :

			<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice\|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
	====Statement by Drmies====
	Hey, I'm at ARE again--it's getting to be exciting. I should run for ArbCom so I can be on these pages all the time. {{U\|Cullen328}}, I see your kitchen knives (and earlier in the article history I felt the same way as you do) and raise you a couple of articles which, apparently, clearly link a particular gun/gun brand with a set of crimes/mass murders. Had it not been for those articles it would be an easy matter of "remove, undue". But that's all I have to say on content.<p>On the actual matter, well, some of the pro-gun editors have a tendency to be somewhat inflexible, and play it too personal: Trekphiler's comment, cited above, on the "effort to dirty Glock" is an example thereof; I believe this is the kind of thing that led us to the Arb case on gun control in the first place. Another thing that was so important in that case was the...let's charitably call it "quibbling" over what are reliable sources; we see some of that here. And the more you look at that comment, the more reason there is to think that they are simply too hotly involved, throwing shade on good-faith editors. Now, RAF's note on my talk page--yeah I supported removing that section earlier, and it's true that I'm a Nerfgun-toting admin, so I suppose a kind of selective canvassing is possible, but for such a judgment one would need some more evidence than just this one. Finally I'll break a lance for Springee, an editor with whom I frequently disagree (because foolishly they disagree with me), but I believe them to be working out of good faith and with a strong enough knowledge of what we're doing here. ] (]) 01:41, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
	*I just noticed the comment by RAF cited below by MastCell: oh dear. RAF, that is totally uncool, and the time may come that you will regret having made that comment. Personally, I hope you regret it already, and will retract. ] (]) 01:44, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
	*One more thing, after {{U\|Springee}} dropped me a note. The complaint mentions a double standard applied to sources, and Springee seems to see that point at least for this article. I think this thread is probably enough to ensure that they will take care not to argue that way again, and I do not see the need for any sanctions against them. Thanks, ] (]) 02:20, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

			<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	====Statement by Pudeo====
	Why are these editors being bundled like this? The general behauvior of RAF910 and Springee for instance is very clearly different. Are you expecting some kind of a collective sanction?

			===Discussion concerning Rasteem===
	The content issue needs to be settled for once and for all somehow. It is ridiculous to keep fighting over the criminal use section in different articles. (My opinion is that criminal use should be mentioned when there is a lot of coverage commenting exactly that, like with ]s and ]s, but random lists of crimes in most articles is completely useless ].) In the case of Glock, is undue, and Dlthewave's viewpoint was in the minority and perhaps that is why he is resorting to this board.
			<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

			====Statement by Rasteem====
	Dlthewave's first point about canvassing the Firearms project is rather absurd when you consider that he himself has started an alternative task force called ]. If you go look at the project's talk page, you will find Dlthewave informing the project about the criminal use RfCs and discussions. How is this any different?
			This approach seems to be a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely. Indeed, after my ban for 6 months. I was banned on 6 December, and in just 7 days, this report is literally an attempt to make me leave Misplaced Pages.

			1. I rolled back my own edit; it was last time made unintentionally. I was about to revert it, but my internet connection was lost, so when I logged in again, I regressed it.
	I also think that the userpages (] and ]) are a violation of ] and illustrate an uncollaborative attitude, certainly more than anything Springee has done, in any case.

			The internet is constantly slow and sometimes goes down. I live in a hilly location and I had formerly mentioned it.
	{{u\|MastCell}}'s comment about the three editors having a "deep-seated partisanship" (and apparently Dlthewave not?) is strikingly biased, and given MastCell's history at AE requests that relate to gun politics and general politics, I have raised the issue directly on his talk page. --] (]) 08:52, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

			My edits on Arjan Lake isn't any ] factual number of edits I made; it is 45, not 50. Indeed, I made similar edits before in September and December months on the same articles within a single day or 2-3 days.
	====Statement by Truthbill====
	If there were was so much concern with NPOV they would not object to experts on criminal use such as highly respected criminologist Dr. Blair and ] and there studies. But they have because they and there studies contradict there sources of uniformed journalist sensationalism(shown to be belatedly false). And this is what all this boils down to. They wish to have there views presented and when a majority object to this they slowly pester and pester other editors until they then can go run and tell in there attempt to manipulate the system. Editor Dlthewave has even petitioned to remove the two policies that allow a editor to ask others to not post on there talk page.

			2. ] on this article, I've added 5680 bytes & made 43 edits.
	For any admin to not acknowledge these tactics or there stated intentions for what they clearly are, and then try to condemn editors who get flustered and make some minor infraction that is used to then try and remove this opposition presents the appearance of impropriety, no matter how they choose to frame it.] (]) 01:30, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

			3. ] on this article I've added 4000 bytes & made 49 edits.

			====Statement by (username)====
	<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->		<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

	===Result concerning ~~Springee, Trekphiler and RAF910~~===		===Result concerning Rasteem===
	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''		:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
	<!-- When closing this request use {{hat\|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->		<!-- When closing this request use {{hat\|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
	* I am ~~still~~ ~~looking~~ at ~~the~~ ~~dispute.~~ ~~But~~ in ~~the~~ ~~meantime~~, I ~~would~~ ~~like~~ ] ~~please~~ to ~~explain~~ ~~how~~ ] is ~~not~~ ~~one~~ ~~big~~ ~~violation~~ of ] ~~that~~ ~~ought~~ to be ~~deleted~~. ] (]) 07:55, 18 ~~February~~ ~~2019~~ (UTC)		* While I don't see a change in editing pattern that indicates gaming, the edits to ] indicate issues with competence, as the article is weirdly promotional and contains phrases such as "beast species", "emotional 263 proved species". ] (]) 20:57, 13 December 2024 (UTC) <!--
			-->
	:*Also, want there a big RfC on "criminal use" sections of gun articles recently? Possibly specific to the AR-15. Can someone remind me where it was? ] (]) 07:57, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
			*Adding to {{u\|Femke}}'s point, {{tpq\|magnific 70- cadence-high waterfalls in this area}} is not prose that inspires confidence in the editor's competence to edit the English Misplaced Pages. So, we have violations of a topic ban and questions about the editor's linguistic competence and performance. Perhaps an indefinite block appealable in six months with a recommendation to build English competency by editing the Simple English Misplaced Pages, and to build general Misplaced Pages skills by editing in the version of Misplaced Pages in the language they speak best during that minimum six month period. As for ], although the prose is poor, the references in the article make it clear to me that the topic is notable, so the editor deserves some credit for starting this article that did not exist for two decades plus. ] (]) 08:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
	:*{{re\|Mr rnddude}} The very one, thank you. ] (]) 08:54, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
			*Brief comment to avoid the archive bot. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 17:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	:*On the dispute itself, I'd value insights from other admins, but initially I'm not seeing any need for enforcement action here. The community have decided that inclusion of such material is to be decided on a case-by-case basis and so there is nothing wrong with the existence of the discussion ''per se''. And at this stage I'm not seeing such tendentious behaviour in that discussion that enforcement is warranted. ] (]) 09:10, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
	:*Since I have received no answer from Dlthewave, I have deleted ] as an arbitration enforcement action for being a violation of POLEMIC.
	:*{{re\|MastCell}} I certainly have no objection to the warning you suggest. ] (]) 12:26, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
	::*{{re\|Dlthewave}} I'm sorry, that doesn't change my mind. Linking to a big list of diffs / discussions and then protesting that you didn't actually write anyone else's username doesn't make this not a POLEMIC violation. "Material that can be viewed as attacking other editors, including the recording of perceived flaws" is prohibited. ] (])
	*As a matter of first impression, this looks primarily like a content dispute to me, and we don't resolve these via AE. I advise all editors to keep calm and avoid ''ad hominem''s, but the conduct reported here doesn't rise to the level of requiring sanctions, in my view. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 09:44, 18 February 2019 (UTC) <small>(Disclaimer: I vaguely remember once taking part in an RfC or other discussion about this kind of topic, but I don't remember what my point of view then was, or whether I participated as editor or closing admin. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 16:24, 18 February 2019 (UTC))</small>
	* The current consensus is that criminal use of firearms may be covered in articles about those firearms on a case-by-case basis, so it's correct to call the underlying question a content dispute. However, there appear to me to be significant ''user-conduct'' issues in how that content dispute is being approached, and those issues are appropriate for discussion, and possible action, here. Specifically:
	** Dlthewave does present pretty compelling evidence of a ] on the part of RAF910 () and Trekphiler (who removed a reasonable edit with an edit summary reading , and dismissed apparent good-faith discussion thus: ).
	** In , Springee and RAF910 seem to move the goalposts. They previously, and properly, insisted on evidence of coverage by independent reliable sources to justify coverage of criminal use. However, when presented with such sources, they responded with a litany of excuses that seem fundamentally like stonewalling.
	* I don't think that ''all'' of Dlthewave's concerns are substantiated, but a significant subset seem to be based on valid behavioral issues. The RfC made it clear that discussions of coverage of criminal use are legitimate and need to be undertaken in good faith on a case-by-case basis, but the presented diffs show Springee, Trekphiler, and RAF910 trying to shut down such discussions as categorically inappropriate (in violation of the RfC), and attacking Dlthewave in terms that betray their own deep-seated partisanship, when Dlthewave is in fact engaged in appropriate editing and discussion.<p>If I'm the only one who sees behavioral (rather than just content) issues here, then I won't push the matter, but I do think there is enough evidence here to justify at least a warning to Springee, RAF910, and Trekphiler to respect our processes and to tone down the ]. If there are previous warnings/sanctions, then a topic ban might be warranted. ''']''' <sup>]</sup> 19:18, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
	:*Thanks for highlighting the most problematic aspects. I agree with this analysis. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 23:03, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
	*This really isn't an AE issue, it's more of an ANI issue. While the Arb ruling on gun control is "broadly construed", I think this is about guns, not control. That doesn't stop any admin from taking an ordinary admin action (based in part on the consensus of the aforementioned RFC), but I don't see how discretionary sanctions could be used here. ] - ] 17:14, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
	** It's a gun-control issue because these editors insist on making it one. The evidence shows repetitive accusations that various editors are part of a "confiscator lobby", and that the content disputes in question are motivated by the desire to control and confiscate privately owned firearms. I don't see how one can read the evidence and conclude that this request is unrelated to gun control. ''']''' <sup>]</sup> 20:11, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
	* I agree with MastCell. It does also appear that Trekphiler's interactions with other editors are more aggressive than the other two. I too would suggest a final warning on such behaviour with further issues leading to a topic ban. ] 21:16, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
	**Yes, BlackKite/MastCell, but let's not forget it needs to be a ''logged'' final warning. ] \| ] 21:29, 21 February 2019 (UTC).
	*** Yes, it does. ] 00:34, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
	* Reading through this thread again, it becomes clear that there is no case for sanctions, but a case for formally warning all parties against misusing Misplaced Pages as a forum for ] unrelated to Misplaced Pages, or attacking or vilifying groups of editors, persons, or other entities. With respect to Springee, Trekphiler and RAF910, the basis for doing so are the reported diffs, and with respect to Dlthewave, the basis for doing so is the now-deleted page ]. Should such problems reoccur, the editors may be made subject to blocks, topic bans or other discretionary sanctions. I'm closing this thread accordingly. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 07:49, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
	{{hab}}

	==~~Sir~~ ~~Joseph~~==		==שלומית ליר==
			{{hat
	{{hat\|Blocked for 72 hours. ] (]) 09:04, 22 February 2019 (UTC)}}
			\| result = ] is reminded to double-check edits before publishing, and to try to reply more promptly when asked about potential mistakes. ] (]) 20:21, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
			}}
	<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>		<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

	===Request concerning ~~Sir~~ ~~Joseph~~===		===Request concerning שלומית ליר===
	; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks\|Nableezy}} 17:21, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

	; User ~~against~~ ~~whom~~ ~~enforcement~~ is ~~requested~~ : {{userlinks\|~~Sir Joseph~~}}~~<p>{{ds/log\|Sir~~ ~~Joseph}}~~		; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks\|Nableezy}} 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
	<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

			; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks\|שלומית ליר}}<p>{{ds/log\|שלומית ליר}}</p>
	;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]

	<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
			;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]

	; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :		; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
			#] claiming a source supports something it never mentions
	<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
	# - title of the section was reverted to version existing
	#

	; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :		; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
	<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
	N/A		N/A

	;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):		;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
			*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on ] (see the system log linked to above).
	<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
	*]

	; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :		; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
			The user wrote that NATO had supported accusations against Hamas citing a titled Hamas and Human Rights in a book titled . They cited the entire chapter, pages 56–126. The source itself is a work of scholarship, and nobody would challenge it as a reliable source. Luckily, the full text of the book is available via the , and anybody with access to that can verify for themselves that the word "shield" appears nowhere in the book. Not human shield, or even NATO (nato appears in searches with the results being "expla'''nator'''y, twice and coordi'''nato'''r once, or Atlantic, or N.A.T.O. It is simply made up that this source supports that material. The user later, after being challenged but declining to answer what in the source supports it (see ]), added another source that supposedly supports the material, paper by NATO StratCom COE, however they themselves say they are , though that misunderstanding is certainly forgivable. However, completely making up that a source supports something, with a citation to 70 pages of a book, is less so. That is to me a purposeful attempt at obfuscating that the source offered does not support the material added, and the lack of any attempt of explaining such an edit on the talk page led me to file a report here. ''']''' - 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
	A 1 revert rule was instituted for ] on February 18. An edit-notice was informing editors of that fact. Sir Joseph has previously been reverting over this same section header (eg ). After making two reverts, the editor was . The user and has been editing since. A clear 1RR violation with a refusal to correct it.

	:Uh, Sir Joseph, SoWhy said AE was the proper venue, and I disagree that the first revert is not a revert. Also, nobody mentioned ARBPIA here until you did. (since ) <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 17:42, 20 February 2019 (UTC)</small>
			:It’s a matter for AE because violations in a CT topic are AE matters and I’ve previously been told to come here instead of AN(I). What sanction? I don’t think there’s any action more serious than making up something about a source, so I’d say it would be anywhere from a logged, and first only, warning to a topic ban. The second sourcing issue isn’t a huge deal, but the first one, the diff im reporting, is IMO such a severe violation that it merits a sanction. I don’t think this is simply misrepresentation, it is complete fabrication. They cited 70 pages of a book without a quote, to a link that doesn’t have the text. Without the Misplaced Pages Library this would have been much more difficult to check. This is going back a while, but ] was a similar situation reported here. If there had been some explanation given on the talk page I wouldn’t have reported this here, but the wholesale fabrication of claiming that a source that never mentions the topic supports some material was ignored there. ''']''' - 14:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
	You reverted to a version from one day prior. You restored a prior version of the article. That is by definition a revert. And you were offered the opportunity to self-revert. You refused. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 17:49, 20 February 2019 (UTC)</small>
			::I want to be clear, I am not claiming any sanctionable behavior in the second diff. I only brought it up to say that rather than address the fabrication in the first one they simply attempted to add some other source. They have as yet not addressed the diff I am reporting here. I am only claiming an issue in that diff citing the book chapter for a book that never even says the word shield in it. ''']''' - 19:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
	:{{ping\|Newyorkbrad}} Sir Joseph declined to self-revert prior to being reported to AN3. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 22:34, 20 February 2019 (UTC)</small>
			:::According to , the insertion of that source was ], the diff I've reported. As far as I can tell no other user has introduced that source on that page. The revision that the user below says has the sources they took from {{tq\|in the article's edit history}} is ''after'' the insertion of that source by that user. If there is some prior revision showing that source being used for that statement then I'd withdraw my complaint, but that does not appear to be the case. ''']''' - 19:58, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
	Yall Sir Joseph is '''still''' insisting he did not revert twice. He seems to be under the impression that if he does not hit undo then it is not a revert. ] however makes that a non-argument. I dont really care if he is blocked or not, but it needs to be made clear to him what is a revert. If it takes a block then do that. But after this thread, in which he takes "not clearly a revert" to mean "not a revert" (even though I disagree on the clarity) and continues to argue over it, I for one am unconvinced that this will not happen again or that he understands that he did in fact violate the 1RR. He was given the opportunity to self-revert. He refused. And now he is indeed wikilawyering, poorly, over what a revert is. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 17:34, 21 February 2019 (UTC)</small>
			::::If that is indeed reproducible then I suggest this be closed with a reminder, not a logged warning, to check the output of any tool more thoroughly. And answer questions about your edits when raised on the talk page instead of ignoring them. ''']''' - 19:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::::Just noting that I verified the bug in the VE sandbox as well. Had I been told of that sequence when I asked about the edit I obviously would not have opened this request. ''']''' - 18:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

	; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :		; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
			]


	===Discussion concerning ~~Sir~~ ~~Joseph~~===		===Discussion concerning שלומית ליר===
	<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>		<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

	====Statement by Sir Joseph====
			====Statement by שלומית ליר====
	This seems to be a bad faith request. As I stated on my talk page, there was no first revert, I made mention to go to ] where I changed the wording, which is the normal change not a reversion. MVBW then reported me to EW, and Icewhiz and SoWhy said the same thing. Admin, {{ping\|SoWhy}} explained this diff is not a reversion, and Icewhiz further clarified that the first diff Nableezy is pointing to is from weeks ago and can't be used as the first point of reference. ]
			The article "Use of human shields by Hamas" is intended to address a well-documented phenomenon: Hamas’s deliberate use of civilian infrastructure — homes, hospitals, and mosques — as shields for its military operations. This includes hiding weapons, constructing military tunnels beneath civilian populations, and knowingly placing innocent lives in harm’s way. Yet, I found the article falls far short of adequately describing this phenomenon. It presents vague and generalized accusations while failing to reference the numerous credible organizations that have extensively documented these practices.
	I urge you all to look at the timeline of the diffs and not just Nableezy's request, we don't look at the baseline from weeks ago, this article is under 1RR.

	1RR means you can't revert more than once in 24 hours. I did not revert more than once in 24 hours. I have also been participating in the discussion at the talk page and this is just playing the numbers game to get their side, which seems odd and disheartening to drag the IP conflict into a US Congresswoman's antisemitic tweets. ] <sup>]</sup> 17:37, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
			During my review, I discovered that essential sources were available in the article's edit history (https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas&oldid=1262868174). I retrieved and restored these sources without reverting prior edits, including a source referenced by user Nableezy. When it was brought to my attention that an error had occurred, I acknowledged it, thanked the user, and corrected it by incorporating two reliable references. I had hoped this would resolve the issue, but apparently, it did not.
	:] also said, "Insofar, I agree with Icewhiz that the first edit is not clearly a revert for the purposes of ]." so there is no first revert. Your whole evidence is that I have more than one revert within 24 hours, but I haven't. You can't put up an edit from three days ago and say you must use that edit and not revert. There is no restriction on this page about that. ] <sup>]</sup> 17:47, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

	::] Where are my two reverts within 24 hours? ] <sup>]</sup> 17:53, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
			Now, I find myself the subject of an arbitration enforcement hearing that feels not only unwarranted but intended to intimidate me from contributing further to this article.
	:::{{ping\|Newyorkbrad}}, that was in the diff I posted above, ], "Insofar, I agree with Icewhiz that the first edit is not clearly a revert for the purposes of ]" that the first edit is not a revert for EW is clear it's not a revert for here either. My first edit was not a revert and it's clear that it's unclear what is and what is not a revert. Further, I don't understand why BlackKite would point out my blocs from two year's ago, other than to muddy the water. ] <sup>]</sup> 21:48, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

	::::{{ping\|GoldenRing}}That's not the point. SoWhy and DennisBrown are also of the opinion that my edit are not clearly a revert. Are we to go through an article's edit years or weeks or days to see if a word was there before? That is not what a revert is. That the article may have had this heading two days prior is irrelevant, it wasn't like that at the point I made the edit. That wasn't a revert, it was a general edit. ] <sup>]</sup> 22:40, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
			I would also like to point out that the responses to my edits raise serious concerns. For instance, an image depicting missiles hidden in a family home — an image used in other Wikipedias to illustrate this topic — was removed. This raises the question: why obscure such critical evidence? Similarly, a scholarly source with credible information that emphasizes the severity of this issue was reverted without clear justification.
	:::::{{ping\|RegentsPark}} No, that's not how it works. We don't retroactively change edits or intents based on other user's comments on those edits. ] <sup>]</sup> 00:40, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

	{{od}}Regarding Volunteer Marek's edits, are casting aspersions now allowed? He brings edits a, from years ago and b, from edits that are clearly not 1RR as even {{ping\|Bishonen}} pointed out to {{ping\|PPX}}, in VM's diff 36. So he's just again trying to muddy the waters with diff-bombing. It's a damn shame that people have to tag-team and make Misplaced Pages such a toxic area. Pointing out that 1RR doesn't apply to articles that 1RR doesn't apply to is now considered GAMING? I suggest a one-way IBAN for VM, every interaction he has with me has been negative and sniping, he brought me to AE for a frivolous action and he has it in for me, it's clear he can't interact with me civilly. ] <sup>]</sup> 03:47, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
			This article should serve as a thorough account of Hamas's war crimes, which have resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians. Instead, it seems that some editors are working to dilute its substance, resisting efforts to include vital context and documentation at the start of the article. This undermines the article’s purpose and risks distorting the public’s understanding of an issue of profound international importance.] (]) 19:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
	*VM has now stated I routinely violate 1RR and game the system. I want admin action at this violation of casting aspersion. It has been shown that his diffs that he provided are nothing more than rubbish. Why can he get away with one of the pillars of civility? Saying that 1RR does not apply to a page that 1RR doesn't apply to is not gaming the system, it's basic Wiki policy. And he saying I routinely violate 1RR is a violation of casting aspersions. ] <sup>]</sup> 04:02, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	:*{{ping\|GoldenRing}} When someone points out to me that I inadvertently violated 1RR, I do self-revert, if you go through my talk page archives you will see that. That you are listening to VM's 4 diffs is a shame, especially considering his 4 diffs don't show that. I urge you to go though my archive and you will see that when I am asked to self-revert I do so. In this case, I didn't because I did not revert. I edited and as you can see, even the admins are not clear that it is a revert. So there is no need for a block and doing so would be punitive and foolhardy. ] <sup>]</sup> 16:32, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

			:I want to add that what Nableezy’s accusation is a complete misrepresentation (and, at times, distortion) of the sequence of events. A reference was mistakenly carried over from a previous editor, and once it was pointed out that it lacked the necessary supporting quotes, I removed it myself.
	====Statement by My very best wishes====
			:I find it difficult to accept that failing to respond immediately to an inquiry regarding a removed source (and good faith attempt to find a sufficient replacement) equates to misrepresentation. I strongly believe that using this forum to imply such a thing, based on the actual facts here, is a misuse of the process.
	<s>I have no judgement if any sanctions are required.</s> My only point is that everyone must respect the rules. This is the case when the user made an obvious violation and refused to admit it. Therefore, I reported it to WP:3RRNB, in a hope that admins will explain to Sir Joseph that he made the violation. ] (]) 21:33, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
			:To the arbitrators: I want to ensure the sequence of events is clear, so I request permission to strike through extraneous elements in my initial response, if necessary, to include more technical evidence while staying within the 500-word limit ] (]) 21:06, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
	:Everyone who edits in ARBPIA and American Politics must understand what revert is. One must also be very careful, be able to listen what others have to say, and react accordingly. Based on their responses, Sir Joseph still does not understand what revert is, he is not willing to listen an advice from others, and only blames others (even on ANI) of his own problems. All of that are very clear indications that Sir Joseph can not edit in such topic areas. ] (]) 15:41, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

			:: <small>(moved from V93's comment)</small> It’s simple. If you copy the reference from the previous version: ''<nowiki/>'Hamas' use of human shields in Gaza' (PDF), NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence,'' and add it using the automatic reference tool, it changes it to: Mukhimer, Tariq (2013), ''Hamas and Human Rights'', ''Hamas Rule in Gaza'', New York: Palgrave Macmillan US, pp. 56–126, ISBN 978-1-349-45658-1, retrieved 2024-12-17.
	====Statement by Icewhiz====
			::This is an innocent error caused by the Wiki program itself. You can try it and see for yourself.
	{{ping\|Newyorkbrad}} - see . The first diff was an edit, not an undo, which passed through a state created by a different editor. The second diff is clearly a revert. The article is heavily edited (and just recently placed under 1rr) - to understand that the fist edit is a revert requires examining the edits of others in the page. ] (]) 21:49, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
			::'''Where it led and what Nableezy allowed himself to do is a story by itself that demands investigation''' ] (]) 12:21, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:While I see your point, '''the issue here was indeed caused by a bug in the 'Add a Cite' tool on automatic mode.'''
			*:I suggest you take the time to verify this before jumping to far-reaching conclusions.
			*:. ] (]) 23:48, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

			*:Thanks for checking it out and confirming; I appreciate it. ] (]) 23:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 23:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC) </small>
	====Volunteer Marek====
	Let's cut the bullshit. Dude has been on Misplaced Pages almost as long as I have. He's been to WP:3RR and WP:AE countless times. Hell, it looks like he jumped right into the middle of an edit war. His edit summary begins with the words "'''again''', her comments are..." (my emphasis). By using the word "again" he is clearly indicating that he is reverting/referring to an earlier version.

			*:::True, and I would most definitely will check next time. ] (]) 23:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
	He knew, and he knows, it was a revert. That's sort of a point of jumping in to edit war.

			====Statement by Supreme Deliciousness====
	Can we please stop pretending that this isn't just bad-faithed attempt at Wikilawyering? Which actually accerbates the offense.] (]) 03:15, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
			Valereee created the article ]. She is therefor involved in the topic area and shouldn't be editing in the uninvolved admin section.--] (]) 08:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

	And oh yeah, go to Sir Joseph's talk page and type "1RR" into the Archive box. It's immediately obvious that this isn't his first tango. Sir Joseph routinely violates ] on controversial articles under that restriction, then tries to ] the rules by claiming it's not actually a revert or whatever other "exception" he can invent for himself (just a few). This is a pattern.] (]) 03:25, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

	====Statement by (username)====		====Statement by (username)====
	<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->		<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

	===Result concerning ~~Sir~~ ~~Joseph~~===		===Result concerning שלומית ליר===
	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''		:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
			* Please forgive my ignorance, but what specific sanction are you requesting and what exactly makes this possible interconnected source misrepresentation a matter that needs AE? Is the information removed (I'm assuming it is). Is this a long-term pattern? The filing even admits that the second instance is understandable given the name of the group putting out the source. I would be more concerned if this was a continuing problem - are there other recent instances of this editor possibly misrepresenting a source? And I'm still not sure that source misrepresntation is something that falls under AE's remit, rather than just something that could be dealt with at ANI or AN? Not saying no, but I'm not sure we need the big gun of AE for this just yet. ] (]) 13:02, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
			** I'm not sure I'm ready to (1) take a 2011 discussion as binding in 2024 and (2) decide unilaterally that "violations in a CT topic are AE matters". Sorry, but I'm not that much of a cowboy (despite the cowboy hat in my closet and the ] horses in my paddock). I'm not trying to be difficult and not at all trying to minimize the severity of source misrepresentation - but I do not see where this topic area has sanctions authorized for that specific behavior - civility and aspersions yeah, but I'd like to see what other admins think. I also would like to see if שלומית ליר has any statement to make (while noting that not replying here is a very bad look for them). ] (]) 14:40, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
			**:I would agree with Nableezy's view regarding jurisdiction, and was under the impression that this was already standard practice. AE is intended to address disruptive editing in designated contentious topics--source misrepresentation is definitely disruptive editing even if it was not specifically a matter of issue for the parties to ARBPIA4. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 14:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
			***: I'm perfectly happy to be shown that it's a matter for AE, I've just not seen it dealt with that I can remember (bearing in mind that I'm not as young as some other folks and can forget things) and I don't see it mentioned in the CT topics bits or in the case pages referred to. I prefer to err on the side of caution in these matters. ] (]) 14:50, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
			***::To my reading it would be directly justified by ] point 2: {{tq\| ...requests for an individual enforcement action against aware editors who engage in misconduct in a contentious topic}} <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 14:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
			***::] is a report where I ~recently sanctioned for source misrepresentation. ] (]) 15:00, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
			*: I'm sorry - but I find this explanation ... not quite believable. Nableezy is saying that the Mukhimer source was introduced ]. You claim that "If you copy the reference from the previous version: 'Hamas' use of human shields in Gaza' (PDF), NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, and add it using the automatic reference tool, it changes it to: Mukhimer, Tariq (2013), Hamas and Human Rights, Hamas Rule in Gaza, New York: Palgrave Macmillan US, pp. 56–126, ISBN 978-1-349-45658-1, retrieved 2024-12-17." What automatic reference tool? And even if the tool is malfunctioning - you are responsible for your edits - especially in such a fraught topic area. Looking at the ] its pretty clear that the first citation is listing the author as "Mukhimer" which should have clued you in (if indeed the automatic tool is a problem) that there was an issue. And when Nableezy raised this issue on the talk page - you didn't actually try this explanation or even any explanation, you just replied "I thought you noticed and understood that I had updated the references." which is deeply concerning that you did not consider the fact that you inserted references that did not support the material (and yes, I did do a rapid read/skim of the Mukhimer work's chapter that was in that citation - the chapter is mostly concerned with Hamas' internal governance and human rights record. I saw nothing discussing human shields or even the war with Israel in that chapter (the chapter does discuss Hamas' actions against Gazans that Hamas accuses of spying/etc for Israel, but nothing about actual military conflict)). The lack of collaborative explanation and the seeming unconcern about the issues brought up are making me lean towards a topic ban, frankly.
			*: I apologize that it took me a while to circle back to this - yesterday was a day of small things breaking and needing to be taken care of and I didn't have the time in the afternoon that I expected to revisit this. ] (]) 14:27, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:: And add yet one more reason to not use VE.... if its some weird bug, then yes, a warning is sufficient. But, really, you need to double check when you use tools to make sure that there are not bugs (and yes, Visual Editor is buggy...) ] (]) 20:16, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			*I've gone on record saying that I consider source misrepresentation to be some of the most disruptive conduct in a contentious topic - it is insidious in a way that calling another editor names is not. That does not mean I support sanctions by default, but I do think we need to take such a report seriously. A lot depends on the specific circumstances - the second instance above seems like a very easy mistake to make - but I would like to hear from שלומית ליר. ] (]) 19:41, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:שלומית ליר, I would like to see a specific response to Nableezy's evidence about where you got your source, so please go ahead and strike or collapse parts of your original statement (please don't remove anything entirely). NB; we are (mostly) administrators enforcing arbitration decisions here, not arbitrators ourselves. ] (]) 21:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
			*I agree with Vanamonde that source misrepresentation is disruptive on its face, and the first time I see it, AGF is pretty much gone. ] (]) 19:55, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:I agree that if this was a bug -- which is really concerning -- then a logged warning is overkill, especially given this editor's inexperience. ] (]) 15:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
			*I'm not sure what "automatic reference tool" is being referred to here, but I'm generally not impressed with "It was the tool's fault." Editors are responsible for the edits they make, and while of course there's no problem with using tools to help, the editor, not the tool, is still responsible for ensuring that the final result accurately represents the sources which are cited. Overall, I'd tend toward Ealdgyth's line of thinking; source misrepresentation is an extremely serious form of misconduct and must under no circumstances be tolerated. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 15:39, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:{{u\|שלומית ליר}}, it has now been necessary on several occasions to move your comments to the proper section from other editors' sections or this one. '''Do not comment outside your own section again.''' ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 09:13, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:Above stuff out of the way, if this actually is reproducible, it may be wise to check Phabricator to see if such an issue has been reported—chances are pretty good this isn't the only time that bug will bite. I'm good with a logged warning to more carefully vet the output of automated editing tools before making the edit, given that. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 09:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:: Isn't a logged warning a bit too much for not catching a bug? I'd rather go for a reminder as Nableezy suggests. Will check Phab or open a new phab ticket when I've got a bit more time. ] (]) 11:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:::I still don't ''love'' the whole thing, but it seems that most people want to just do an informal reminder, so I've got no strong objection (of course, as long as the bug actually does get reported, if it's not been already.) ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 17:49, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
			* To my surprise, it's true that copying that text into VE's automatic citation formatter gives this output. Most absurd bug I've ever seen. Of course it's an editor's responsibility to check if the citation is correct, but this is not something you might think to check for, especially as a newer editor. While intentionally misrepresenting a source is highly disruptive, I don't think this weird error is sanctionable. I would like to give ] one piece of advice for editing a contentious topic like this: always use edit summaries (you can change your settings so that you're warned if you forget them). That can help reduce misunderstandings. ] (]) 19:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
			* I agree with Femke about how to resolve this request, including the advice to check things and to use edit summaries. I am also extremely concerned about the bug-created citation issue and wonder where is the best place to request that the error be investigated and fixed. ] (]) 14:58, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
	<!-- When closing this request use {{hat\|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->		<!-- When closing this request use {{hat\|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
			*<!--
	*Maybe {{u\|Doug Weller}} can opine here, since he is the one that put 1RR in effect. As this just got switched over, and the first edit is questionable as a revert, I wouldn't be inclined to take action other than a give a general warning. ] - ] 17:53, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
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	:*{{Re\|Dennis Brown}} could you clarify why you think the first diff is questionable? ] (]) 08:19, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	*I'm frankly amazed that anyone could claim the first diff isn't a revert. The "allegations of semitism" header existed , was removed on 18 February with , was then restored on 19 February , and was then changed . It's existed twice in the very recent history, so it's an obvious revert - and the second diff is definitely a revert. So that is clearly two reverts in 24 hours. If anyone thinks I'm analysing this wrongly, please let me know, but IMHO this is a clear violation. I note that the user has four previous AE blocks, although none are particularly recent. ] 19:11, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
	*Agree with Black Kite. The heading appears to have been moving in and out quite a bit and the 1RR notice is quite clear. Clear violation. --] <small>(])</small> 21:22, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
	*:The first edit may or may not have been intended as a revert, but it becomes one when it is pointed out that the text was present previously. Once that has been pointed out, the intent of the original edit no longer matters, and not self reverting is a violation of 1RR. --] <small>(])</small> 23:15, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
	*{{ping\|Sir Joseph}} Please provide a link to where ] opined that the first cited edit was not a revert. Thank you. ] (]) 21:40, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
	**Thank you to Icewhiz and Sir Joseph for pointing me to the link. If Sir Joseph declined to self-revert based on an admin's opinion that the first edit was not a revert, then it would be difficult to justify any sanction here (beyond possibly a warning) even if we disagree with that admin's conclusion. ] (]) 22:26, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
	*** Which I would agree with, except that the user refused to relf-revert after it was pointed out well before SoWhy's comment. ] 00:36, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	*While there is something of a grey area around what is a revert, I'm pretty sure this isn't that grey area. Restoring a title that was in the article two days ago is clearly a revert; that it is a revert if multiple editors' edits does not make it any better. I appreciate Brad's point immediately above, but according to the diffs above, the refusal to self-revert was more than 12 hours before SoWhy gave his opinion. ] (]) 22:35, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
	*Not sure whether I'm considered involved or not for closing the ANEW thread, so disregard this if you think me involved. But since my comment was mentioned multiple times, I want to point out that "not clearly" is not the same as "clearly not". The changed a section heading but there is no ''clear'' indication that they did so to restore . They ''might'' just have come up with the same title coincidentally since the chosen wording is indeed used by sources without knowing about the first such change; Wikieditor1920 also changed the title multiple times afterwards before . As such, I was and am willing - barring evidence to the contrary - to assume that Sir Joseph did not ''intentionally'' restore a previous version with their first edit. I'd recommend '''a warning''' be issued to be more careful and self-revert when challenged because even if the editor in question was not intending to edit-war over the title, the end result is the same and the purpose of 1RR restrictions is to avoid drama and force discussion instead. Regards ]] 08:45, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	**I think Sir Joseph should have known better, he has enough experience. I'd call it a revert. However, I'm willing to go along with a warning this time. No excuses if this happens again and probably a topic ban. ] ] 09:41, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	***I agree that they should have known better and I agree with what you said regarding the warning. Regards ]] 11:08, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	*No real comment on the AE enforcement, I don't think there's enough here to justify a block, but to note that Sir Joseph has gone to AN/I and requested a ''one-way interaction ban'' be imposed on Volunteer Marek for ''casting aspersions'' (note that if he'd also used the term ''hounding'' we would have had an ANI complaint bingo). I think that is not a helpful thing to do. <u style="text-decoration:none;font:1.1em/1em Arial Black;letter-spacing:-0.09em">]+]</u> 10:08, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	*My view is that decisions about the enforcement of page-level sanctions should be made by the admin imposing the sanction, in this case {{u\|Doug Weller}}. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 11:02, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	**] ] 13:25, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	***It's my personal opinion that admins should only impose sanctions that they are willing to enforce themselves, in order to make sure that they only impose sanctions where it is really needed. Indiscriminate sanctioning can otherwise cause a lot of drama and administrative overhead for other users and admins. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 14:13, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	****I think that imposes an unfair burden on Admins as well as a bit of a slur - I don't do indiscriminate sanctioning and I think few do. Coffee may have gone overboard, but he wasn't typical. ] ] 16:27, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	*I was going to close this with the following text:
	{{quote\|There is consensus among the uninvolved administrators commenting here that this is a 1RR violation and that Sir Joseph ought to have known that and self-reverted when it was pointed out to him. Sir Joseph is warned to be cautious about reverting, especially in controversial areas, and that the next similar incident will be met with sanctions.}}
	:But the more of it I typed, the more it stuck in my craw. There is no acknowledgement from Sir Joseph that there was anything wrong with his edits, he is sticking to his wide-eyed surprise that anyone could possibly see a problem and has started picking the specks out of other editors' eyes. The more I think about it, the more I agree with Volunteer Marek. The history he points to may be old, but that's sort of the point: Sir Joseph has been around long enough that he should know what a revert is. So I will not close this with a warning. If anyone else wants to, feel free; if no-one else takes action or talks me out of it in the next 18 hours, I think a block is in order. ] (]) 14:11, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	::Is there a requirement anywhere that the to be sanctioned user has to be repentant? Regards ]] 15:03, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	:::No, but there is an expectation that people who have done something wrong understand that they have done something wrong and demonstrate a change in their behaviour accordingly; unrepentance suggests it'll just happen again. <u style="text-decoration:none;font:1.1em/1em Arial Black;letter-spacing:-0.09em">]+]</u> 15:26, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	:::{{re\|SoWhy}} No, there isn't, but I'm not prepared to take Sir Joseph's contention that they didn't know this was not a violation at face value; as I said above, he's been around long enough to know what a revert is and it was helpfully pointed out to him. On that basis, a block is in order. I could see my way to a warning if his attitude here was, "Ooops, sorry, I was wrong and I'll be more careful," but it just isn't. As Fish and Karate says, inaction here will only lead to the same problems. ] (]) 16:00, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	::{{re\|Sir Joseph}} I'm not saying I agree with VM about the diffs he presents, but that I agree that you are trying to wikilawyer what is a straightforward 1RR violation and that you've been here long enough to know better. SoWhy has clarified above that he doesn't think there is no violation here, but that he though you might believe there is no violation. ] (]) 18:47, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	*1RR was just imposed, and the revert was from an older version which does blur it a bit only because 1RR was literally just put in place. It wasn't an active editing war going, so yes, I'm inclined to just warn and move on. Added to NYB's revelations, this seems the most prudent thing still. Blocking or sanctioning isn't going to change anything, so it would seem punative, or "just because we can", and I can't go for that. ] - ] 19:44, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	*GoldenRing, I'd support such a block for the reasons you give. ] \| ] 21:15, 21 February 2019 (UTC).
	{{hab}}		{{hab}}

			==KronosAlight==
	==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Atsme==
			<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

			===Request concerning KronosAlight===
	<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found ]. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.''</small> <p><small>''To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small></p>
			; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks\|Butterscotch Beluga}} 03:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

			; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks\|KronosAlight}}<p>{{ds/log\|KronosAlight}}</p>
	; Appealing user : {{userlinks\|Atsme}} – <sup>]]]</sup> 20:05, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

			<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	; Sanction being appealed : Indef topic ban from AP2 broadly construed imposed at the beginning of request in June 2018, and in August 2018 that I withdrew in 24 hrs.

			;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
	; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin\|Bishonen}}
			<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

			; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
	; Notification of that administrator :
			<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
			#
			:*Adds "depiste being an ex-Muslim" to dismiss accusations of Islamophobia ].
			:*Adds ] around ‘promoted Islamophobia’ & ‘Islamophobia’ while removing the supporting context.
			:*Changed "interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence" to "claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred" ] & ]
			# - ]
			:*Changes "Israeli settlers" to "Israeli soldiers" despite
			# - ]
			# - ]
			:* Unnecessarily specific additions that may constitute ] such as adding "against civilians" & changing "prevent the assassinations of many Israelis" to "prevent the assassinations of many Israeli civilians and soldiers"
			# - ]

			; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
	===Statement by Atsme===
			<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
			# Warned to abide by the one-revert rule when making edits within the scope of the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area.
			# Blocked from editing for 1 week for violating consensus required on the page ]

			;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
	I’m here to appeal my June 2018 that was imposed on me by Bishonen at ARCA independently of the case that was filed, noting that I filed a in Aug 2018 and withdrew it within approx 24 hrs with an ArbCom restriction of 6 mos before I could appeal again. The 6 mos. restriction has expired.

			*Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on by {{admin\|ScottishFinnishRadish}}.
	Over the past few months, I throttled down my editing to focus on family and RL demands, but also managed to devote some private time to reflect on my contributions in the AP2 topic area. I will say that it isn't easy to see oneself objectively but I did try and feel that I’ve succeeded as a result of the time I spent with family and friends who mercilessly indulged me in conversations regarding one of the least favorite topics people want to discuss over the holidays...that being the topic area of this appeal. It was the best thing that could’ve happened as it taught me how to better manage the emotional triggers that topic alone has a tendency to create. It certainly led me to a better understanding of the highly contentious AP2 topic area. More importantly, I’ve learned that the best way to avoid drama in political discussions is to simply stop contributing and walk away.
			*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on .

			; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
	In retrospect, I regret the occasions I strayed from my customary collegial behavior during RfCs and consensus required discussions in the AP2 topic area. I don’t have such issues when editing in other topic areas so I used the latter to gage my behavior in AP2. I now see the biggest problem was my overzealousness to win the debates and gain consensus, showing little consideration to opposing views. The times my position did gain consensus were overshadowed by the inappropriateness of my persistence, and for that I apologize with a promise that it will never happen again. '''I made a New Year's resolution that if I ever find myself participating in the AP2 topic area again I will stay on point, present my case with civility while keeping brevity in mind, will answer questions if asked and will maintain my customary polite demeaner at all times. If I happen to be notified of an RfC, I will simply cast my iVote, state why, and move on to other areas. I have also read the essays ], ], and ] and have taken them to heart.'''
			All edits were made at ]. After I with an explanation, I , asking for their rationale.
			They replied that they were & asked if I "perhaps have a deeper bias that’s influencing decisions in this respect?"

			They then
	In closing, I will add that I never before realized how intertwined politics is in our everyday lives, or that such a broad t-ban would be so restrictive to my normal editing activities, particularly when working at AfC and NPP. I also became overly cautious and chose to deny requests for copy editing and lead improvement if I saw even a hint of a potential political undertow in the articles. I did not under any circumstances want to inadvertently violate my t-ban. It has been a heavy burden to carry, and I do hope the decision here will weigh in my favor so I can return to my normal editing activity. <sup>]]]</sup> 20:05, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

			: ] - While I can't find any comments where they were explicitly ''"warned for casting aspersions"'', they were to ] in the topic area.
	*Floq - allegations of specific misconduct without diffs are difficult to address but I understand that going back to find evidence is tedious work, and as an admin you already have a lot on your plate. My appeal is somewhat broad in scope as I believe the crux of my behavior is what led to other behaviors. If it will help, I once copied all the diffs presented against me by MrX and addressed them at ] back in August in preparation of my 1st appeal. Please select the specific diffs you feel are not covered in my current appeal and I will be happy to address them individually. With regards to your questions about Bishonen, I believe the word I used was bias not hate, and if I did use hate, I apologize, it was totally out of character. With all due respect, I don't think it is appropriate for me to respond directly to that part of your question because I feel it is irrelevant to my appeal in that it has nothing to do with my ability to edit in the AP2 topic area. However, if it will help put your mind at ease, I will say that I hold no animosity toward anyone, regardless of the situation. In fact, I have defended two other editors at AE and/or ANI, {{noping\|SPECIFICO}} and {{noping\|BullRangifer}}, who have consistently been opponents in the AP2 topic area. We have maintained a collegial association as editors despite our disagreements. <s>I have kept two diffs from other editors because their comments were unsolicited and I treasure them to this day. Hopefully they will serve to support my position as they are relevent to behavior: by an admin, and by a user I once filed against at AN/I and now hold in high regard.</s> Sidenote: I am nopinging to avoid the appearance of canvassing. <sup>]]]</sup> 16:03, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	::Floq - this appeal is about my promise to not partake in TE, broadly construed. This is not about Bishonen - she was simply the enforcing admin. If you have an issue with anything I've said related to her, please take it to AN. It does not belong here. This venue is AE regarding editing behavior where DS have been imposed. Thank you. <sup>]]]</sup> 23:45, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

			:Also, apologies for my ''"diffs of edits that violate this sanction"'' section, this is the first time I've filed a request here & I thought it'd be best to explain the ''preamble'' to my revert, but I understand now that I misunderstood the purpose of that section & will remember such for the future. - ] (]) 15:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
	*AWilley - please read my response to Floq. Provide the diffs that have raised your concern, otherwise I cannot provide an appropriate answer without knowing exactly to what you are referring. I need specifics, please. The allegations against me are compiled in the link I provided to Floq above - you can pick the ones you feel I need to address. Without diffs to support a specific allegation, we are treading awfully close to aspersions. The diffs used as evidence against me in my June t-ban are there for the choosing, and my explanations are there as well. I don't recall ever being the editor you described below. While my editing was tendentious, I have never been one to spew nonsense, and will never be that person, unless {{fbdb}} is indicated. I will admit that on a few occasions my humor was sarcastic but we all indulged from time to time. Since my t-ban was imposed, the following discussions have emerged: and , so it isn't an issue that is unique to my concerns. Read Masem's statement again as it describes the primary issue well. As for the comments about AP2 becoming a quieter topic area, doesn't that customarily hold true when most of the opposition is eliminated and the bulk of the editing is done by like-minded individuals? Have you considered that since your attempt to impose on SPECIFICO, he/she has not edited in that topic area since? Others have been on and off. Please don't forget that there have been a substantial number of editors t-banned since June 2018, not just me. Bishonen acknowledged that in her statement. Was it really necessary for you to make such a claim without providing factual information with the numbers to support it? <sup>]]]</sup> 21:39, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	::It was very disheartening to read your response. In your 1st diff, the source is not black listed and can be used with caution, but I took it one step further by adding NYTimes as a source for verification per the diff you provided. Did you not read the ? There was no error on my part. The 2nd & 3rd diffs you included below - Breitbart which was cherrypicked from an WP:RSN discussion, not from an AP2 article rather it was about something Ben Shapiro had said. The was also at RSN. If you had read my comment you would have seen ''"Editors have to exercise a bit more caution than before when it comes to verifying any publication that's considered a "news source". Bait-click headlines and fallacious content are rampant, and none of them are immune."'' The Daily Wire and Red State diffs you included were in a question I asked on the Sean Hannity TP regarding edits by an IP - ''"Can we use Daily Wire which explains the crux of what IP207 is saying?"'', so again, my references to those sources were taken out of context. Nothing I've said in my appeal has been disengenuous. What you provided as evidence to discredit me regarding sources substantiated nothing that belongs in this appeal, and none of it can be related to disruptive editing which further explains why I did not include it. You have your opinion, AWilley, and there is nothing I can do to change that if you're not going to actually read the diffs in context, but as an admin, you are obligated to at least present the facts correctly. I cannot fix problems that don't exist and if I'm to be blamed for doing things I didn't do, you shouldn't be disappointed if I refuse to apologize for it. I identified the problem that existed regarding my t-ban and Masem's statement helped to validate it. It appears that whether or not I respond to each allegation made by involved editors/admins or choose to ignore them, I will be condemned either way as what Floq just demonstrated - damned if I do - damned if I don't. At least I've corrected the misinformation and properly stated facts, so if I'm to be punished for that, then so be it. I've done the best I can do. <sup>]]]</sup> 01:13, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

			:@] I was able to find a copy of the opinion article being cited . ] (]) 20:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
	*regentspark - I feel that your question relating to Bishonen is irrelevant to my appeal in that it has nothing to do with my ability to edit in the AP2 topic area. Why are you even bringing it up? This is now beginning to appear to be punitive considering this is my first t-ban ever, since I've been an editor, and it was an indef t-ban whereas other editors who have done far worse were given shorter time limits. There is no need for me to vindicate Bishonen's actions. This is a t-ban appeal at AE, not a request for desysopping at AN so why is it even being discussed? No, I have no intention of filing for a desysop of Bishonen. My statement in my appeal is thorough and to the point. Your questions go beyond what is expected in an appeal. I've made my statement and acknowledged the areas where I need to improve - if you have reason to believe there are other areas that I need to improve, then provide the diffs please. I actually went back and studied the diffs that were used against me, and asked {{noping\|Newyorkbrad}} for the . His response was - not one diff was mentioned. Editors who make allegations about another editor are expected to provide diffs to support their allegations. With all due respect, I ask for the same consideration. Provide the diffs so that I may respond with an intelligent, well-thought out answer to your questions. <sup>]]]</sup> 21:39, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	::regentspark - I hope it doesn't create an issue, but I just bolded a portion of my text above to emphasize the crux of my appeal. In totality, that is the part that really matters. The focus here is supposed to be a remedy for disruptive behavior, and to deny my appeal based only on speculation and dismissing what I've vowed to do is not fair to me or the project. If you haven't actually studied the diffs in context that were used against me, and I copied to ], please take the time to do so because they are what my t-ban was based on - and this appeal is about that t-ban. If you find anything in those diffs that I have not addressed, please advise so we can discuss it. I am a person of principal and I honor my commitments. You can take my words at face value. I am not hiding behind anonymity - what you see is what you get - my real id is on the line here, and I was hoping that my years as an editor have been far more productive than disruptive, so please don't judge me based on this one t-ban. In fact, it would be wonderful if every editor who participated in the AP2 topic area would make a behavior vow similar to mine. AE would look like a ghost town. <sup>]]]</sup> 03:29, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

			; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
	*MastCell - please provide the diffs you are referencing so that I may address your concerns. <sup>]]]</sup> 22:28, 21 February 2019 (UTC)


			<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	*Drmies - of course there is a human crisis at the southern border, and something needs to be done about it but AE is not the place to discuss it, and certainly not now. Instead of automatically believing the worst of me, you should have noticed that picture was posted a year ago on my TP and it is no longer there. The story behind it was actually a true situation when a friend's kids were watching TV and saw all the kids playing in one of the camps, and they actually thought it was a summer camp where they could go. Real life moment. Secondly, it has no relevance to this appeal except as an attempt to unfairly smear me, and it should be removed. <sup>]]]</sup> 05:49, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

			===Discussion concerning KronosAlight===
	*Bishonen - I was actually referring to the section here for involved editors.<sup>]]]</sup> 14:28, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
			<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
	::Bish, my apologies for the confusion. Regarding the disruption comment, I was actually referring to your statement in the original case wherein you said, {{xt\|"I should say that Am Pol is no rosegarden even if we disregard Atsme's input, and probably won't be one even if my ban is upheld. Several people have recommended an AP3 case to deal with the chaos on Trump-related pages.}} . Probably not the best example but it made sense at the time. With regard to the other issue, my reference was to the section title below where "Involved editors" are supposed to comment - involved in the regard MastCell mentioned and where other editors have participated in AP2, I suppose. Perhaps I was confused over what you said. Anyway, work awaits, and I think it's time for me to get busy responding to CE requests. Enjoy the day! <sup>]]]</sup> 17:59, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

			====Statement by KronosAlight====
	*Just wanted to respond to MVBW's use of which appears to have raised some doubt. It actually turns out to be an excellent example of what I have already identified as the problem I vowed to not repeat. In that diff, I was overzealous, wandered off point, and clearly lacked brevity - please read my close in that diff which is actually the point I was trying to make - {{xt\|Use inline text attribution, follow the RS guideline for material that may be challenged, avoid policy noncompliance and apply BRD to rid an article of biased garbage and fallacious claims.}} Unfortunately, my close was completely lost primarily because of what I have properly described in my appeal as the crux of my problem. I reiterate...overzealousness, lack of brevity, wandering off point - and that's what led to the issues that were raised. Had I simply stated what I stated in the close instead of all the rambling that preceded it, my comment would not have been an issue...except for some of the ending terminology which I will not use in that manner in the future. <sup>]]]</sup> 18:20, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

			This is a complete waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.
	===Statement by Bishonen===
	I don't think I'll comment here, unless someone should have an urgent question for me. But it might be useful to have a link to my topic ban rationale. it is. ] \| ] 21:06, 20 February 2019 (UTC).

			1. That Yousef was born and raised a Muslim is important and neutral context for readers to be aware of when the article refers to claims of ‘Islamophobia’.
	It turns out I've nevertheless got a few questions now:
	# {{yo\|Atsme}} You say "Please don't forget that there have been a substantial number of editors t-banned since June 2018, not just me. Bishonen acknowledged that in her statement." I'm not quite following that. I acknowledged what, where?
	# {{yo\|Atsme}} I notice that now you meet some resistance, the allegations of "involved administrators" appear again: "It appears that whether or not I respond to each allegation made by involved editors/admins or choose to ignore them, I will be condemned either way". Not sure who you're referring to as involved — is it Awilley? Awilley and some others? ] \| ] 12:47, 22 February 2019 (UTC).
	#{{yo\|Fish and karate}} You point out that Atsme's banner about the Trump summer camps is seven months old, and "unless there's evidence of recent advocacy not really concerned about that". How could there be more recent advocacy, when she has been topic banned from American politics for the last seven months? And has properly abided by the ban. Anything Am Pol-related from Atsme is going to be at least seven months. ] \| ] 12:47, 22 February 2019 (UTC).
	:::{{yo\|Atsme}} I was hoping this needn't turn into a whole discussion, but I'm more confused now than before you posted . Does it refer to both my questions, or is there more coming? Where is there a section for involved editors? Where in my statement (presumably not my brief statement above, so what statement?) did I acknowledge "that there have been a substantial number of editors t-banned since June 2018, not just "? ] \| ] 16:47, 22 February 2019 (UTC).

			2. The scarequotes indicate that the claim comes from the sources provided, rather than being an objective ‘fact’ determined by a few Misplaced Pages Editors with an axe to grind.
	===Statement by Mr Ernie===
	I would support a lifting of the restriction. This is a very introspective appeal. Atsme is intelligent and articulate, which are characteristics of editors we need on the project. I believe them when they say they've taken those instructive essays to heart. ] (]) 20:57, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
	:There’s a risk that this could now go on and on with editors coming in with specific questions about what would you do in this case, what do you think about this, what do you think about that. I would encourage us to AGF and believe Atsme when they say they will approach this topic with better behavior. Most admins below seem to support lifting the topic ban, so how long do we need to go round and round here? ] (]) 18:56, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

			3. This was already addressed on the Talk page and I updated the sentence to say settlers/soldiers with a further label that it needed further clarification because the source does not in fact unambiguously say what Butterscotch Beluga claims.
	===Statement by MrX===
	Any administrators considering whether to lift this topic ban should evaluate whether Atsme's appeal addresses the full extent of the conduct that resulted in the topic ban. As the editor who brought the original complaint, I can say that it had nothing to do with civility. Brevity and staying on point are necessary, but so is refraining from the other behaviors that lead to the ban: whataboutism, discrediting reliable sources, claiming bias and propaganda in reliable sources, filibustering, sidetracking discussions, ], rehashing comments, ], distorting policies, and wikilawyering.

			A few lines above what Butterscotch Beluga quotes is the following lines: “AMANPOUR: How did you take part in that? Were you one of the small children who threw rocks at Israeli soldiers?
	After Atsme was topic banned, the quality of discussion on several American politics talk pages improved markedly. If the topic ban is lifted, it should come with a firm provision that any recidivism will result in a resumption of the topic ban. - ]] 🖋 02:30, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	*{{re\|PackMecEng}} I stand by my assertion that the discussions on the Trump talk pages improved in brevity, adherence to the topic, and quality. What's interesting is that if you think they have been the same or worse, why you have not raised your concerns at AE. It's .- ]] 🖋 15:32, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

			YOUSEF: The model for every Palestinian child is a mujahid (ph) or a fidahi (ph) or a fighter. So, of course, I wanted to be one at that point of my life. It wasn't -- it's not my only dream. It's every child's dream in that territory.”
	*It might be helpful to know if Atsme still believes that "the media" is biased and proven to be 90% negative against Donald Trump, or if separating immigrant children from their parents is Barack Obama's fault. Does she still believe that news sources "spin the truth"?. Has her opinion changed that ''The Washington Post'' is "highly misleading and inaccurate" when they say ''"It has become standard operating procedure for Trump and his aides to deceive the public with false statements and shifting accounts."''? Does she still believe that CNN, WaPo, NYTimes report disinformation? Does she still think that her close friends on the border are better sources than Leftist mainstream media? - ]] 🖋 22:57, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

			The updated Wiki page noted both settlers/soldiers and included a note that this requires further clarification, perhaps based on other sources, because it isn’t clear (contra Butterscotch Beluga) whether he is referring to soldiers or settlers.
	===Statement by MONGO===
	Atsme is kind, is polite, is passionate about her editing, truly cares and wants to help keep articles balanced in their wording. While Atsme claims that she has had RL issues and what not to attend to since, I feel that the ban took the wind out of her sails for most anything on the site. I therefore support seeing the ban lifted but offer advice should this happen. That advice to Atsme is to not waste your precious hours arguing with editors that loiter on these political articles. While its fine to cast a "vote" and to offer a very concise explanation, the inevitable hectoring from those that disagree with you should be met with no response, no response at all. Brevity is the soul of wit. You will not change their minds, as their minds are made up. Avoid those drama-laden articles where no good happens, no one smiles, no one is happy, where people waste thousands of edits and yet the article is no where near to achieving even a "Good" rating because the article is merely a collection of twisted sound bites, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Yes, lift the ban so we can put this behind us and Atsme won't be carrying this on her otherwise quite excellent wiki-resume any longer.--] (]) 04:24, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

			4. It is not controversial to accurately describe Hamas as a terrorist organisation. It is simply a fact. To suggest otherwise is POV-pushing.
	Simply adding that Atsme is going to be watched quite obviously. The chance she is going to make an irreversible error is next to zero and if she does err in a manner unpleasing to those here that object to her unbanning, it will surely be quite easy to ban her again, and that ''will'' likely be irreversible...at least in the near term.--] (]) 01:08, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

			5. This is not POVPUSH; ‘assassinations’ against civilians during peacetime are usually called ‘murders’.
	===Statement by Winged Blades of Godric ===
	The appeal looks sincere and impresses upon me that she has understood the problems of her erstwhile conduct in the area. Support a grant. ]] 11:04, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

			I in fact didn’t even remove the word ‘assassinations’, I merely broadened the description from ‘Israelis’ to ‘Israeli civilians and soldiers’ (as Butterscotch accepted) to indicate the breadth of the individuals in question included both civilians and combatants. This is not POVPUSH, it is simply additional information and context verified in the source itself.
	===Statement by Floq===
	{{ping\|Atsme}}, do you still believe the topic ban was placed unfairly, as retaliation by an involved admin who did so because she hates you? That it should have resulted in Bishonen's desysop? You said that - several times - on your talk page when it was first imposed, and while I haven't gone digging for diffs (I can if you believe I'm being inaccurate), I recall you saying similar things ''a whole bunch of times'' after that. Has that perspective changed as well? I'd also value your opinion on MrX's comment above. Do you think the only problem with your behavior was that you weren't being nice and were too longwinded?

			All in all, a vexatious claim and a waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.
	I'm a friend of Bish's, so I'll consider myself involved, but '''these are the kind of things I think uninvolved admins should be asking'''. --] (]) 13:37, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

			====Statement by Sean.hoyland====
	:{{re\|Atsme}} Why are you asking for diffs about things that you 100% know you said? Two of which you linked to yourself above? Here are 3 obvious, easy ones:
			Regarding "I was correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors", it would be helpful if KronosAlight would explicitly identify the antisemitic editors and the edits they corrected so that they can be blocked for being antisemitic editors. ] (]) 08:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
	:*Atsme's statement in response to MrX's ARCA filing:
	:*Atsme's comments on her own talk page after the t-ban imposition:
	:*Atsme's statement in her appeal in August:
	:Do a ctrl-f for "Bishonen" in each section and at least a half dozen examples of accusing her of malfeasance will show up in each one. --] (]) 22:52, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	::Last reply: I am not trying to get you further sanctioned for the baseless accusations you made about Bishonen 6 months ago. I'm trying to evaluate whether you still have the same battleground mentality and proclivity for gamesmanship in an argument that caused the topic ban to be imposed in the first place. I think you've answered that question, so I'll go find something else to do now. --] (]) 23:56, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

			The editor has been here since 2012. It is reasonable to assume that they know the rules regarding aspersions. It is reasonable to assume they are intentionally violating them, presumably because they genuinely believe they are dealing with antisemitic editors. So, this report is somehow simultaneously a vexatious complete waste of time and the result of the someone interfering with their valiant efforts to correct errors made by antisemitic editors. Why do they have this belief? , a comment they had the good sense to revert. For me, this is an example of someone attempting to use propaganda that resembles antisemitic conspiracy theories about media control to undermine Misplaced Pages's processes and then changing their mind. But the very fact that they thought of it is disturbing. Their revert suggests that they are probably aware that there are things you can say about an editor and things you cannot say about an editor. From my perspective, what we have here is part of an emerging pattern in the topic area, a growing number of attacks on Misplaced Pages and editors with accusations of antisemitism, cabals etc. stemming in part from external partisan sources/influence operations. ] (]) 17:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
	===Statement by MastCell===

	I'm concerned that this appeal shows no indication that Atsme understands the rationale behind the topic ban. She states that she has learned the importance of being brief and remaining civil. True, there was an element of ] in her previous participation in the topic area, and her commitment to avoid that behavior going forward is welcome. But the topic ban was not placed because Atsme was uncivil, or overly prolix. (If anything, commentary in the generally praised her civility). The major concern was that Atsme consistently undermined or obstructed reliable sources, dismissed high-quality journalistic sources as "propaganda", and mischaracterized fact as opinion, all in service of an apparent ideological agenda. Those behaviors were rightly identified as toxic to our efforts to cover political topics accurately and neutrally. I would absolutely oppose lifting this topic ban unless and until Atsme grapples with the actual reasons that it was placed. And that's a practical consideration, not a personal one: if she doesn't understand why the topic ban was placed, then she will certainly run into the same trouble again. We currently have a ''major'' problem on American-politics articles with editors who inappropriately dismiss, stonewall, or undermine reliable sources on partisan grounds, and who enable and amplify each other in doing so. Adding Atsme back to the topic area is a mistake unless it's clear that this behavior isn't going to be repeated.
			====Statement by Zero0000====
			Aspersions:
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			*
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			]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 10:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Statement by Vice regent====
	Separately, Atsme's reaction to the topic ban was highly, and somewhat indiscriminately, belligerent. She attacked various editors and admins as biased, disruptive, and so on, often without any substantive evidence. I understand that, to some extent, this was a fight-or-flight reaction in the heat of the moment. But if that's the case, then I think it's reasonable to ask for some introspection on Atsme's part. How does she view her reaction to the topic ban now, at a distance? Does she continue to believe that it was motivated by bias and personal malice? Does she feel an apology is owed to any, some, or all of the people whom she attacked?
			{{u\|KronosAlight}}, you on 14 Dec 2024: "{{tq\|An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence}}" to "{{tq\|An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred}}".

			Can you show where either of the sources state "though no threats or violence in fact occurred"? ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 18:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
	I'm placing myself in this section, rather than the uninvolved-admin section, because I've interacted with Atsme quite a bit. We've often disagreed; we've sometimes agreed; we've generally been friendly. But, like Floquenbeam, these are the kinds of questions I would expect uninvolved admins to ask, as part of their basic due diligence, before entertaining removal of this topic ban (thank you, RegentsPark and Awilley). ''']''' <sup>]</sup> 21:32, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	:{{ping\|Atsme}} Like Floquenbeam, I think it's silly (if not dishonest) to demand diffs when we both know exactly what I'm talking about. And I see that after ] went to the trouble of ], and , you responded: . To me, this looks like straight-up wikilawyering on your part, to avoid taking responsibility for your statements and actions. I'm absolutely opposed to lifting the topic ban at this point, because I think Atsme's responses provide no reason to believe that anything will be different if the ban is lifted. ''']''' <sup>]</sup> 22:23, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

	===Statement by ~~Softlavender~~===		====Statement by Smallangryplanet====
			Wanted to add some pertinent evidence:
	In her responses to administrators here, Atsme is going right back into the ] behavior and self-justification that got her the indef topic ban. Sample: "{{xt\|it was an indef t-ban whereas other editors who have done far worse were given shorter time limits.}}" Sample: bringing up Newyorkbrad who wisely ignored her belligerent baiting demands on his talkpage back then: "I actually went back and studied the diffs that were used against me, and asked {{noping\|Newyorkbrad}} for the . His response was - not one diff was mentioned." Etc. All this says to me that Atsme has not been rehabilitated, does not understand her own behavioral problems, and will likely continue with battleground attacks and self-justifying recriminations if the topic ban is lifted at this time. I will also note that over the course of her TBan she complained fairly noticeably about the TBan, usually symbolically, indirectly, or covertly, but clearly, including to kindred spirits like Winkelvi, including posting images of a person with their mouth gagged, and so on. I recommend retaining the TBan. Possibly an appeal in another six months will be less belligerent and more self-responsible. ] (]) 00:33, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

			'''Talk:Zionism''':
	===Statement by K.e.coffman===
	I've been involved in the general topic area, but not in the specific disputes with Atsme. I'm concerned about potentially continued advocacy that may be contrary to the goals of the project, such as inclusivity and tolerance. For example, Atsme's Talk page displayed the following in July of 2018:
	{{Quote box
	\|class = letterhead
	\|align=center
	\|width = 40%
	\|border=none
	\|qalign=center
	\|quote = I asked the kids where they want to go for summer vacation.<br/> They yelled, ''Kid's summer camp!!''<br/> I asked where? ]<br/> They said, ''Trump's immigration camp on the border, where all the other kids get to go.''}}

	~~Source:~~ . If the appeal is ~~granted~~, I ~~would~~ ~~like~~ to ~~request~~ ~~Atsme~~ to ~~please refrain from broadcasting intolerant messages in userspace.~~		*
			*
			*
			*

			'''Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon''':
	I'm also concerned about the lack of acknowledgement of past battleground behaviour, as specifically was evident in the first appeal. At the time, I described it as "borderline harassment of the editor who submitted the original request": ]. I see this as more than "stray from my customary collegial behavior". Perhaps, a one-way interaction ban should be considered in case the appeal is successful. ] (]) 01:36, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
	:In re: this response to my statement, the "real life moment" was posted without context and the sentiment it ''seems'' to express was echoed in an unrelated user Talk page discussion about the ]:
	:*"the whole affair has been sensationalized by media - great clickbait - our local news has assured us that the kids are fine, and living under the best of conditions. Our American children who are homeless wish they had it so good. The hook audio of babies crying is done with a purpose, specifically to persuade the midterms..." .
	:I noticed Atsme's response because I started the thread: , and then took a look at Atsme's Talk page and found more of the same. I believe that such comments are relevant to the appeal, as Atsme asserted that reliable sources were "clickbait" and ascribed nefarious motives to the journalists covering the family separation policy, apart from my concerns about the nature of the Talk page banner. Such comments are toxic in the AP area, and I was asking Atsme to avoid them in the future should she return to editing these topic. --] (]) 22:15, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
	:Ading ping {{ping\|Fish and karate}} as you have commented on my statement. --] (]) 22:23, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

			*
	===Statement by Drmies===
	Whoa, that kid's summer camp was new to me. Atsme, I do not understand how you ever thought that was funny. Those kids, separated from their families, many of them fleeing abuse only to land in more abuse, deserve much better than that. ] (]) 04:46, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

			'''Talk:Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world''':
	===Statement by Objective3000===
	I’m generally in favor of second chances, and I really like to see contrite appeals acknowledging past error and plans to avoid those errs in future. Atsme’s appeal was, indeed, contrite and promised avoidance of further problems. It was very well presented. Unfortunately, I believe it was off topic. Atsme was not banned for incivility. MrX gives a brief rundown of the many problems with her past behavior related to AP2 articles. I agree with all of MrX’s observations and haven’t seen any indication that they won’t be repeated. I would feel far more comfortable with an acknowledgement of these problems. And, I fear anyone with such a dim view of sources like WaPo and NYT, while accepting Breitbart, will continue to experience difficulties in AP2. Having said all that, Atsme is a solid contributor in non-AP2 areas. It would be an unfortunate outcome should reinsertion in the AP2 arena degrade her contributions to other areas of the project. ] (]) 15:01, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
	===Comment by JzG===
	Atsme is a lovely person, but I have encountered exactly the same behaviour since I first encountered her over her edits to {{la\|G. Edward Griffin}} in 2015, and also in other cases related to her hot-button issues. The tban here is entirely defensible, and any lifting would basically require a voluntary restriction almost as broad, I'm afraid. I think this is just how Atsme is. The good news is that everywhere else, I find she is an absolute delight, endlessly helpful and polite. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 18:33, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
	: {{rto\|DGG}} I understand your point, but Atsme has not simply advanced a political POV, she has rejected reliable sources on the basis that they conflict with her ideology. That is a specific and very real problem. The right wing media bubble is now almost completely disconnected from the continuum of mainstream media. Fox used to cite the WSJ and even WaPo, but this declined sharply after Fox lost viewers over ideological purity, with Breitbart taking up the slack. Fox has regained mindshare in the right only since it stopped referencing mainstream sources in its main segments. These days the word "mainstream" is used by the political right as a synonym for "liberal". That is profoundly dangerous. It casts propaganda and journalism as equivalents. The mainstream media includes the Wall Street Journal, remember, which has an editorial policy that is fiscally and socially conservative and rejects climate change on ideological grounds. I find Atsme's rejection of sources simply because they are mainstream to be profoundly disturbing. It is antithetical to ], ] and ] - and it was in evidence over the dispute in 2015 around G. Edward Griffin (a member of the John Birch Society), with a distinct conspiracist tinge. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 22:40, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

			*
	=== Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Atsme ===

			'''Talk:2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks''':
	==== Comment by Shrike ====
	I think Atsme learned from her mistakes and I '''support''' the appeal --] (]) 13:55, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

			*
	====Comment by PackMecEng====
	For what it is worth it certainly seems she has learned her lesson. I think her contributions elsewhere speak for themselves on that issue. Her response here also clearly shows she has seen the issues with past behavior and has learned form them. I must disagree with MrX's point above though, at best discussions on those pages are the same or worse. To say since the removal of Atsme the pages have "improved markedly" is rather perplexing and an unnecessary comment. I also think that many people will have an eye on her in that subject area and be quick to report any infractions should issues arise. In the end Astme is a productive and valuable editor and it would be a shame if she could not help improve all topics. ] (]) 15:07, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	:{{reply\|MrX}} I tend not to complain as much. Unless something becomes a large problem or if I think something positive would actually come of it. ] (]) 15:49, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

			'''Talk:Anti-Zionism''':
	====Comment by Masem====
	Not really directly involved in any fashion but I've rubbed up against Atsme and other involved editors enough to consider myself "involved", if only that I share Atsme's stance on how we are treating these topics. I've been in the same boat before with Gamergate (where my policy-based discussed on talk pages were considered by some to be disruptive but not determined to be by Arbcom), and in reviewing the diffs from the original AP actions, the worst I see is the tendentious editing facet, but everything else argued then seemed to be an attempt to silence a dissenting voice that is bringing up valid policy-related matters and otherwise not outright disruptive. (I've seen this far too much in other venues outside AP2) As long as Atsme is aware of TE issues and is willing to back off if told they're approaching that point, then there's no reason to not lift the ban. AP2 is going to naturally create animosity between editors, but we have to be careful to vilify those that seem to be contrary but are otherwise fairly arguing. Talk pages are there to work it out. --] (]) 15:49, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	:From Mastcell's comment {{green\|The major concern was that Atsme consistently undermined or obstructed reliable sources, dismissed high-quality journalistic sources as "propaganda", and mischaracterized fact as opinion, all in service of an apparent ideological agenda.}} How one views what Atsme did (per diffs of the AP2 complaint) is eye-of-the-beholder stance. There ''is'' an unfortunate trend over the last several years that editors want to blindly use sources in a slavish manner without question, while there are others (which I'd include myself in and consider Atsme in as well) that feel that it wholly appropriate to consider the state of the state before blindly using sources. Which way to go is not prescribed by any policy, so there's no right or wrong way, thus it is improper to consider Atsme's interactions as disruptive for these types of comments is in poor judgement. Otherwise, this becomes a very easy way to silence opponents (the same problems happening at Gamergate) That there was TE-ness in their edits, that's very different and an actionable manner and one that, should their ban be lifted, to make sure Atsme stays away from. --] (]) 21:59, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	::I'm simply re-stating the original basis for the topic ban. I'm not interested in re-litigating its merits with you, nor do I think you're doing Atsme any favors by minimizing and normalizing the behavior that got her topic-banned. ''']''' <sup>]</sup> 22:06, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

			*
	====Comment by Springee====
			*
	I'm very much not an involved editor here. I have no idea what brought Atsme to this point. What I'm seeing is two camps. One that thinks a second chance is warranted, others who are pointing out past issues out of concern they will happen again. It sounds like a fence case. I see four possible futures here. One, consensus says no and it turns out they were right because Atsme would return to the problematic behavior. Two, consensus say yes and Atsme stays clean. Three, consensus says no but Atsme would have stayed clean. Four, consensus says yes and bad behavior resumes.

			'''Talk:Gaza genocide''':
	The first two represent the correct decisions given future behavior. They represent the betterment of Misplaced Pages. The fourth is unfortunate but also reversible. The third is the problem. In the third case the decision is effectively a punishment rather than protecting the encyclopedia. What is the harm in giving the benefit of the doubt in a fence case? If the Tban is lifted and problems return are people concerned that Atsme's behavior won't be scrutinized or an admin would be more than willing to restore the ban? If lifting the ban turns out to be the wrong choice it can be reversed, edits undone. But if it's the right choice, but not the consensus decision, then the Tban is a punishment for past sins rather than a protection. Both the editor and encyclopedia suffer for it.
			*
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			'''Talk:Nuseirat rescue and massacre''':
	For what it's worth, and I only know what people are saying here, I think she should be given the benefit of doubt and lift the tban. It can always be restored. ] (]) 00:59, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

			*
	====Comment by GRuban====
	Support per everyone and their brother. She's dedicated, experienced, energetic, kind, and an all around good Joe. Summer camp, well, if everyone who's ever made an unsuccessful attempt to lighten a terrible situation with a joke were excluded, we wouldn't have any humanity left. To err is human, to forgive is … among other things, what this noticeboard is for. --] (]) 15:41, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

			'''Talk:Al-Sardi school attack''':
	====Comment by My very best wishes====
	I think a successful appeal should generally include two parts:
	#What was the problem? For example, that might be a personal bias that a lot of ] are equal to the "]" (as Mr. President said), or as Atsme tells , "The news we're getting now is mostly propaganda". Obviously, one can not properly use reliable sources if one believes they are propaganda.
	#The solution? There could be different solutions. 1. Maybe the contributor realized that trashing reliable sources was wrong. 2. Maybe he/she still has a bias, but will not even mention any sources colored pink or yellow in , while focusing on the sources colored green. 3. May be he/she is going to avoid editing any controversial subjects for a while. And so on, and so on. This depends on the person, but I am not sure what is that exactly, after looking at her statement. Something like "I will stay on point, present my case with civility while keeping brevity in mind" does not really address the actual problem I think. ] (]) 16:21, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
	:@Atsme. My apology if I misinterpreted something. In the diff you compared WorldNetDaily and NYT as equally "good" sources. ] (]) 20:37, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

			*
	===Result of the appeal by Atsme===

			'''Talk:Eden Golan''':

			*

			'''Other sanctions''':

			* March 2024: for ], ], etc
			* June 2024: to abide by 1RR
			* October 2024: for a week

			====Statement by (username)====
			<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

			===Result concerning KronosAlight===
	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''		:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
			* Much of the "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" fail to explain "how these edits violate" the sanction - to me, much of these diffs look like a content dispute. However, the "additional comments" section DOES have a diff that is concerning and violates the CT by casting an aspersion that is not backed up by a diff - the "antisemitic editors" diff. Has KA been previously warned for casting aspersions? If they have, I'm inclined to issue a topic ban, but many other editors get a warning for this if they lack a previous warning. The diffs brought up by Zero (not all of which I necessarily see as aspersions, but the "Jew-hatred" one is definitely over the line - but it's from September so a bit late to sanction for just that) - did anyone point out that aspersions/incivility in this topic area is sanctionable? I see the warnings for 1RR and consensus required... ] (]) 13:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
	<!-- When closing this request (once there is a consensus) use {{hat\|Result}} / {{hab}} if at AE, or an archive/discussion box template if on AN, inform the user on their talk page and note it in the discretionary sanctions log below where their sanctions is logged. -->
			** {{ping\|KronosAlight}} - can you address the fact that saying "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" and "Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred"? Neither of these are statements that should ever be made - and the fact that you seem to not to understand this is making me lean towards a topic ban. ] (]) 14:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
	*I support lifting this restriction, on the understanding that the tolerance for trouble will be very minimal. ] (]) 08:23, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
			*KronosAlight, can you please provide quotes from the references you cited for - for instance - "for his terrorist activities" in , showing that the sources explicitly supported the content you added? Calling a person or an organization is perfectly acceptable if you support that with reliable sources; if it is original research, or source misrepresentation, it isn't acceptable. I cannot access some of the sources in question. You may provide quotes inside a collapsed section if you wish to save space. ] (]) 19:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
	:*Note that in making {{u\|Shrike}}'s comment unthreaded I made a bit of a mess of the template. {{re\|PackMecEng\|Masem}} If you consider yourselves involved, please move your comments back into the involved section. Sorry, everyone. ] (]) 16:10, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
			*:I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. , however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. ] (]) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
	::* I consider myself involved enough to not participate in this section (beyond this message) to determine the result, but uninvolved in the larger picture. --] (]) 19:18, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
			*::@], can you please respond to this? I too am concerned...the quote you're objecting to wasn't from DrSmarty. It was a ''direct quote'', scare quotes and all, from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum. You seem to have reacted to it as if it were DrSmarty. ] (]) 16:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
	*Yes, no objection to the restriction being lifted, with the usual caveats about Atsme not backsliding into any of the previous problematic behaviour. <u style="text-decoration:none;font:1.1em/1em Arial Black;letter-spacing:-0.09em">]+]</u> 10:10, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
			*I don't like to sanction ''in absentia'', and I'm not yet suggesting we do so, but I want to note that not choosing not to respond here, or going inactive to avoid responding, will not improve the outcome as far as I am concerned. ] (]) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
	*:To add, I think the banner K.e. coffman has provided is evidence of a poor lead-balloon joke lifted here out of context, rather than 'political advocacy', and I note it is from 7 months ago, unless there's evidence of recent advocacy I'm not really concerned about that. <u style="text-decoration:none;font:1.1em/1em Arial Black;letter-spacing:-0.09em">]+]</u> 10:32, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
			*:They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? ] (]) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
	*::{{re\|Bishonen}} Yes that's right. Sorry I wasn't clear - I would be concerned if there had been anything during the topic ban. As I mentioned, I'd want to see the topic ban lifted with the usual caveats about not backsliding into problematic behaviour, and political advocacy would be one of those behaviours. <u style="text-decoration:none;font:1.1em/1em Arial Black;letter-spacing:-0.09em">]+]</u> 13:07, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
			*::I agree with Valereee that this editors contribution history shows a pattern of editing for a day or two at a time followed by several weeks of inactivity. So I don't think it's fair to say they went inactive here but also holding this open for multiple weeks waiting for a response places some burden on the other other interested editors. ] (]) 17:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
	* I share the views expressed by GoldenRing and Fish and karate. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 11:04, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
			<!-- When closing this request use {{hat\|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
	* I'm a little troubled that Atsme hasn't addressed her remarks about Bishonen that I see linked above (Bishonen's statement). Atsme, do you still believe that Bishonen's actions were retaliatory and that she should be desysopped? I notice that you apologized only for using the word "hate" in your response to Floq - a word which, incidentally, you did not use - but say nothing about the other statements you made about Bishonen's motives following the block. It would be helpful if you would clarify whether you believe that the ban was justified and not retaliatory or made by an involved admin. --] <small>(])</small> 19:38, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
			*<!--
	*: Atsme, the reason I brought that up is because your initial statement says that you recognize that your editing was less than ideal ("strayed from the collegial", for example) but it didn't specifically address your remarks about Bishonen (actually, coming to think of it, the entire statement is rather devoid of particulars). The point is fairly straightforward. If you continue to think Bishonen's actions were retaliatory and unjustified, then most of your statement is, with apologies, hogwash. Which is why it is not irrelevant. Now that I've read Awilley's comments below, I think what's troubling is that you're dealing in generalities and not pointing to anything specific about what resulted in the t-ban in the first place and not pointing to any specifics about how you're going to change going forward. --] <small>(])</small> 01:47, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
			-->
	* Leaning towards accept, but with a few thoughts and one big concern:
	:#First, I think Bishonen's topic ban effected a clear net improvement for the topic area. Going back and reading some of the material surrounding the evidence diffs reminded me how bad things were getting, and as a side note it was interesting to see how many of the disruptive editors have since been topic banned or have otherwise moved on. If the topic ban is lifted I would expect Atsme to adapt to how things have changed, and try to further elevate the discourse (which is still far from ideal), and not drag things back in time to 2018 and earlier.
	:#I think the appeal above does a really good job of dealing with the concerns of filibustering, IDHT, bludgeoning, etc. That really was a problem. In fact I wrote ] specifically with Atsme in mind, and if she hadn't already been topic banned at the time of writing I would have placed that sanction on her without any hesitation. (I think it would be a good idea for her to give it a read through and follow it anyway, since it's mostly just good talkpage etiquette.)
	:#I don't think the appeal has adequately dealt with the concern about '''"Repeatedly discrediting reliable sources; claiming bias and propaganda in reliable sources"''' which was a big part of the evidence and rationale for the topic ban. Is Atsme going to continue referring to the "MSM" as "propaganda" or claiming that sources like Breitbart are as reliable as the NYTimes? Note I'm not saying that we should unquestionably accept everything the "MSM" says, but there's a difference between having a healthy skepticism for all sources vs. yelling "Propaganda!" and "Fake News!" when news organizations write things we don't agree with. I'd appreciate a response to this @].
	:<span style="font-family:times; text-shadow: 0 0 .2em #7af">~] <small>(])</small></span> 20:11, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	:::{{re\|Atsme}} <del>Your request for diffs strikes me as a bit disingenuous, and </del>the page you linked didn't resolve my concern. You're responding to the diffs in "Group 1" as if the problem were civility. (It was not.) "The diffs related to the problem I am referencing are all under the convenient subheading "Repeatedly discrediting reliable sources; claiming bias and propaganda in reliable sources" and also the diffs in the following sentence: "Although she often complains about clickbait sources, she is apparently OK with using source like ] , ], ], ], and ]" I'm really not interested in re-litigating the rationale of the topic ban and copying over and analyzing diffs that you are perfectly capable of opening and reading yourself. All I want to know is that you understand what the problem was and that you intend to fix it. <span style="font-family:times; text-shadow: 0 0 .2em #7af">~] <small>(])</small></span> 00:07, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
	*I think we should accept the appeal. It is essential for the proper presentation of controversial topics that all views be represented , proportionately and fairly. It cannot be assumed that in an area like AP (or any country's politics, or any similar mater of wide interest and extensive coverage,) that the sources will be divided neatly into Reliable vs. Unreliable. There is no source whatever in areas like this--even sources which try to present just a factual chronology or something that seems absolutely straightforward -- that can be assumed to be wholly reliable. They may at best be reliable for what they include, but they will always leave some things out. They may do this through deliberate judgment, or inadvertently. Similarly , there is no source so unreliable that it can not be used for what the person who writes it chooses to say about their POV. We cannot understand honest sources unless we compare hem with dishonest ones. The key here is proportionality and fair presentation. Every one of us who is interested in this topic will have a personal POV, and the only way to avoid expressing it is to consciously and deliberately and carefully write for the enemy, something that many find to be very difficult. Even if we cannot do that. we still need to consider that there may be situations where the opposing sources are correct. If I dislike a particular POV, I will be handicapped in finding positive sources about them, and need to at least not oppose those who do find them. . Historically, sources that are generally despised sometimes are the ones which find the most valuable material, The only way to get a balanced article is to be inclusive.
	:I do not know how close Atsme's politics might be to mine, and in any case I could not talk about it here for I have no intention of disclosing my own--I do know people have made various guesses about it, all of which cannot be accurate. I personally prefer not to edit in this topic area, for the very reason that i do have strong feelings, and though I may be experienced enough to not let them consciously affect my editing, I do not want to say anything that might disclose them. I think it would be good if those who do edit in this area would at least try not to blatantly disclose them either, even in non-article space. I'm aware that some of the people who have been involved in this matter have in fact disclosed them, to a degree that I think improper. and which might have a tendency to discourage opponents. I would therefore set a very high bar indeed to a topic ban in this area. The reasoning is exactly the same why the US courts have long held that the rules on free speech and press apply ''particularly'' to political matters. These are the ones where we need to be certain to not exclude those on the basis they have too strongly expressed views that we may not individually agree with. Frankly, it does sometimes look as if WP does have a certain political slant. To some extent, this is unavoidable, and will necessarily as in all other topics reflect the people who work here. We should however try to minimize it, and I think we probably need to make an effort to keep partisan political discussion out of user and talk space, as well as articles; indulging in it gives the impression that it will affect the person's content contributions also.
	:The only significant thing that I think Atsme has done really wrong is carrying on an argument beyond the point where it is productive. Obviously, the same charge will necessarily apply to those on the other side of the discussion. We need to fight any tendency that might look as if we deal with it differently depending on the position. In any case, I think Atsme realizes the reasons why such persistence is not appropriate here. (persistency may be a great virtue in partisan environments, but not in discussing content in WP). I'm concerned both that we need to remove this topic ban, and that we avoid making other similar bans. It is never a good idea at WP to look for reasons to discredit one's opponents. ''']''' (]) 07:35, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
	:::@JzG :The repetition here of diffs from earlier years may show problematic behavior then, but it has little bearing on whether it would continue. At this point, I think repeating them constitutes an attempt to suppress further discussion at the proper places , and possibly even to fix the interpretation the way you would prefer it. ''']''' (]) 02:34, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

			==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nicoljaus==
	==Smeagol 17<nowiki></nowiki>==
			<small>''Procedural notes: Per the ], a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.''</small>

			<small>''To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections{{space}}but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small>

			; Appealing user : {{userlinks\|Nicoljaus}} – ] (]) 13:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

			; Sanction being appealed : To enforce an ], and for edit warring, and , you have been ''']''' '''indefinitely''' from editing Misplaced Pages.

			; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin\|ScottishFinnishRadish}}

			; Notification of that administrator : I'm aware. ] (]) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

			===Statement by Nicoljaus===

			The circumstances of my blocking were:
			*I was looking for a Misplaced Pages account for ] to add it to Wikidata. I couldn't find it, so I did a little research. The in the article indicated that she participated in some '''WikiWrites'''(?) project. I didn’t find such a project, but I found the '''WikiRights''' project: https://ar.wikipedia.org/ويكيبيديا:ويكي_رايتس. It was organized by a certain Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor. I read the ] article and didn't see any outside perspective, "controversy" or anything like that, just self-representation. I surfed the Internet and instantly found information that must be in the article to comply with the NPOV. I started adding {{diff2\|1220241573}}, everything went well for two days. Then:
			*12:53, 23 April 2024 - Zero0000 made a complete cancellation of all additions {{diff2\|1220380219}}</br>
			*13:14, 23 April 2024 - (20 minutes later!) Selfstudier wrote on my TP {{diff2\|1220382377}}</br>
			*14:20 - 14:22, 23 April 2024 -‎ With two edits ({{diff2\|1220390536\|first}}, {{diff2\|1220390820\|second}}) I partially took into account the comment of Zero0000 about "ethnic marking", but returned the last {{Diff\|\|1220390820\|1220380219}}.</br>
			*14:27, 23 April 2024 (7 minutes later!!) Selfstudier makes a second complete cancellation of all my edits, blaming POV editing {{diff2\|1220391708}}</br>
			*14:45, 23 April 2024‎ - I’m returning the version where I partially took into account Zero0000’s comments (removed "ethnic marking"){{diff2\|1220394447}}</br>
			*15:10, 23 April 2024 - Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit ]</br>
			*15:41, 23 April 2024 Selfstudier writes on Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement {{diff2\|1220403117}}</br>
			*16:10, 23 April 2024 (30 minutes later!) ScottishFinnishRadish issues an indefinite block {{diff2\|1220407252}}. No opportunity to write my “statement”, as well as an extremely bad faith interpretation of my remark as "an intent to game 1rr".</br>
			Given that the both Selfstudier and Zero0000 are currently being discussed in Arbcom (https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence), I humbly ask you to take a fresh look at my indefinite block and soften the restrictions in some way". ] (]) 19:32, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
			:{{yo\|ScottishFinnishRadish}} - You {{diff2\|1263932187\|\|mean}}, I need to discuss my previous edit war blocks? Well, the last one was almost four years ago and that time I simply forgot that I was under 1RR (there was a big break in editing) and tried to get sources for a newly added map, and the opponent refused to do so {{diff2\|983337359}}. As it turned out later, the true source was a book by a fringe author, which the RSN called "Usual nationalistic bullshit, no sign of reliability". Yes, it was a stupid forgetfulness on my part. ] (]) 16:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
			:{{yo\|Aquillion}} {{tq\| Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them)}} -- That's why I wrote that my "so problematic edits" attracted attention only after two days, but two users appeared within 20 minutes. However, after months, a lot of data about the cooperation of these users appeared (and this is not my imagination): "While a single editor, Shane (a newbie), advocated for its inclusion, a trio of veterans including Zero0000, Nishidani and Selfstudier fought back. After Selfstudier accused Shane of being a troll for arguing for the photo’s inclusion, Zero0000, days later, “objected” to its inclusion, citing issues of provenance. Nishidani stepped in to back up Zero0000, prompting a response by Shane. The following day, Zero0000 pushed back against Shane, who responded. The day after, Nishidani returned with his own pushback. The tag-team effort proved too much for Shane, who simply gave up, and the effort succeeded: the photo remains absent" . I'll add that after Selfstudier accused Shane of trolling, Zero0000 appeared on Shane's page and said: "Kindly keep your insults to yourself I won't hesitate to propose you for blocking if you keep it up" {{diff2\|1017316378}}. According to the table at the link , these two users cooperated like this 720 times. Probably hundreds of people were embittered, forced out of the project, or led to blocking like me.--] (]) 13:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
			:{{ping\|ScottishFinnishRadish}} Hello, thank you very much for transferring my remarks, now I understand how it works. I would like to clarify the issue of meatpuppetry. You directly accused me of such intentions in justifying the block, and now this accusation has been repeated {{diff2\|1264013557}}. Let's figure out whether that Selfstudier and Zero0000 are working too closely was so absurd? Was it really and remains so absurd that it could not be perceived as anything other than my self-exposure? I don't think so.</br>
			As for the "edit war" - I understand that edit wars are evil. In the spirit of cooperation, I tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule - I will of course avoid it in the future.--] (]) 16:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

			@Valereee: Hello, I understand your point that edit wars can be disruptive, particularly in a CTOP context. However, I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting.
			Furthermore, I acknowledge your reference to the 1RR/3RR rule and my history of blocks for edit-warring. However, given the amount of time that has passed, I believe I have gained valuable insights and learned a great deal. Moreover, given this topic, I think I actually learned something unlike the other side, whose history of blocks for edit-warring remains clean.--Nicoljaus (talk) 4:24 am, Today (UTC−5)

			{{re\|Valereee}} In response to {{diff2\|1264999031\|\|this}}, I can say that I already know very well how carelessly admins impose blocks. If any further statements are needed from me, just ping me. With best regards.--] (]) 09:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

			===Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish===
			Absent from the appeal is discussion of the five prior edit warring blocks and any indication that they will not resume edit warring. ] (]) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
			:I said {{tq\|They have a long history of edit warring, so I'd like to see that addressed rather than blaming others}} above, twelve days ago. ] (]) 16:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
			:{{u\|Nicoljaus}}, you should be focusing on convincing people that you won't edit war in the future rather than more ]. ] (]) 13:11, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
			===Statement by (involved editor 1)===

			===Statement by (involved editor 2)===

			===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nicoljaus ===
			<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

			====Statement by Simonm223====
			looks like a bright-line ] violation via ] and ] - and removing BLP violations are generally somewhere where there is some latitude on ] which makes the actions of Zero0000 and Selfstudier more justified, not less. ] (]) 13:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Statement by Aquillion====

			{{tq\|Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit}} - I feel like this is obvious enough that I probably don't have to point it out, but "counter edit" is not a ] / ] exception. Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were ]ing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them), it ''still'' would not justify your revert. The fact that they're parties to an ArbCom case (which hasn't even yet found any fault with them!) doesn't change any of this. You should probably read ]. --] (]) 14:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Statement by Sean.hoyland====
			"the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination"...yet another conspiracy-minded evidence-free accusation against editors in the PIA topic area, the third one at AE in just a few days. ] (]) 14:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)====

			===Result of the appeal by Nicoljaus===
			:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
			*I do not see any indication that Nicoljaus actually realizes the problem. The edit warring blocks were indeed some time ago, but one might think they would remember it after being blocked for it repeatedly, not to mention that being issued a CTOP notice might call a CTOP restriction to mind. And the remark in question sure looks to me like a threat to game 1RR via ], too. Given all that, I would decline this appeal. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 23:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
			* I see nothing in this appeal that makes me think they've taken on board the changes that they'd need to do to be a productive editor. It reads to me like "my block was bad, here's why", and that's not working as a reason for me to support unblocking. ] (]) 23:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
			* Nicoljaus, what we need to see is you demonstrating you understand edit-warring at a CTOP, which is what you were blocked for, and convincing us you won't do it again. Arguing the block should be lifted because other editors did something you thought looked suspicious isn't going to convince us. <small>Just FWIW, Nicoljaus, the source doesn't actually say {{xt\|these two users cooperated like this 720 times}}. It says they edited the same articles 720 times, and that's not unusual. Most editors see the same other editors over and over again in articles about their primary interest. And edit by editor 1>2 days>revert by editor 2>revert by editor 1>20 minutes>revert by editor 3 is also not at all unusual anywhere on the encyclopedia and isn't evidence of tag-teaming. People read their watch lists. Any editor with that article on their watchlist, which is nearly fifty editors, might have investigated the large revert of an edit by an experienced editor at a contentious topic.</small> ] (]) 15:18, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:@], it's not that edit wars are evil. It's that they're disruptive, and particularly in a CTOP we really really don't need additional disruption and drama. A revert is a revert, even if you {{xt\|tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit}}. Re: {{xt\|If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule}}: a revert is a revert and is covered in the policy around reversions. And you have a history of blocks for edit-warring, including at other CTOPs.
			*:It's been seven months since the block. I'm trying to come around to a way to at least allow this editor a ''chance'' to show us they've taken this stuff on board...maybe a 0RR at all CTOPs? ] (]) 17:44, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
			*::@], re {{xt\|I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting}}. Some editors at talk pages will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just take you to ANEW. Some admins at ANEW will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just reblock you.
			*::''No one anywhere is promising that your intentions will be taken into account'' -- or even that they'll try to figure out what your intentions are -- and therefore it's ''completely your responsibility'' to read the situation you're in correctly. If you read it wrong, you're likely to be blocked again, and honestly another block for edit-warring at a CTOP is likely to be another indef, and it would absolutely not surprise me for the blocking admin to require 12 months to appeal. ] (]) 15:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:::No need to reply, but I'll tell you plainly I've been trying to give you opportunities to convince other admins here, and you keep wanting to dig the hole deeper. I'd support an unblock with an editing restriction of 0RR at any article with a CTOPs designation on the talk page. ] (]) 13:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
			<!-- When closing this request (once there is a consensus) use {{hat\|Result}} / {{hab}} if at AE, or an archive/discussion box template if on AN, inform the user on their talk page and note it in the contentious topics log below where their sanctions is logged. -->

			==PerspicazHistorian==
	<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>		<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

	===Request concerning ~~Smeagol 17~~===		===Request concerning PerspicazHistorian===
	; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks\|~~MrX~~}} 12:11, 21 ~~February~~ ~~2019~~ (UTC)		; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks\|NXcrypto}} 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

	; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks\|~~Smeagol 17~~}}<p>{{ds/log\|~~Smeagol 17~~}}		; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks\|PerspicazHistorian}}<p>{{ds/log\|PerspicazHistorian}}</p>

			<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] :
	]

			;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
	; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
			<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

			; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
	#, - 1RR Violation after recent warning
			<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
	#, - 1RR Violation after recent warning
			# - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of ] (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
	#, - 1RR Violation.
			# - tag bombed the highly vetted ] article without any discussion or reason
			# - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
			# - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting
			# - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
			# - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
			# - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "{{tq\|This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP.}}"

	; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :		; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
			<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
			*Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring.
			;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
			; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
			<!-- Add any further comment here -->

			I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
	;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):

			:While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to ]. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
	*Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.
	*Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on

			; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
	; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
			<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice\|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
	* Smeagol 17's is not comforting.- ]] 🖋 14:36, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

	; ~~Notification~~ of the ~~user~~ against whom ~~enforcement~~ is ~~requested :~~		<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


	===Discussion concerning ~~Smeagol~~ 17===		===Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
	<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>		<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
	====Statement by Smeagol 17====
	I corrected wrong tense and accepted phrasing in the article, this was reverted without explanation. I used my once per day revert with explanation. What is a problem?] (]) 14:27, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	: If my correction was formally uacceptable, then I am sorry. When given warning abot similar (more serious) matter in this article, I complied. If ''someone'' told me that this minor correction was also unacceptable, despite ambiguosnes about what constitutes a revert? I would have complied also. ] (]) 14:53, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	:: About ''temporary self revert''. Is it gaming the rules? I though they were working as intended. (I did it after reciving a warning, so I self-reverted for a day) Or what then is the point of allowing one revert a day?] (]) 17:10, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
	::: Maybe I was taking this issue too casually. But if you look for example ] you will see that some are taking to editing even small wording issues on this topic with openly less then encyclopedic motives. Given that, I used formal rights to improve (in my view) the article. Honestly? I throught my explanation in the edit comment would be enough for such a minor (and close to consensus (in my view)) issue, without creating a talk topic (at least for third-party onlookers). I was wrong in this, as it often happened with such issues. ] (]) 15:33, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

	====Statement by Mr ~~rnddude~~====		====Statement by PerspicazHistorian ====
			By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on ] Page.
	The first two "revert 1"'s are ... in what world is copy-editing (first one) and expanding the sentence (second one) considered to be "reverting"? As to the third "revert 1" diff, yes I think that actually constitutes a "first revert". ] (]) 14:58, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
			I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before ] told me about this: ].
			Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.<br>
			In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on ] by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to ] it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of ].<br>
			As a clarification to my edit on ], it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this . I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
			:@], Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in ]. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! ] (]) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Yes, I will commit to that. ] (]) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC) </small>
			:At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when ] was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. ] (]) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Hi @] , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
			::''<small>P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards.</small>'' ] (]) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)<small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.] (]) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)</small>

	====Statement by ~~(next involved editor)~~====		====Statement by LukeEmily====
			PerspicazHistorian also violated ] by engaging in an edit war with {{u\|Ratnahastin}} who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.] (])
	<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

	===~~Result~~ ~~concerning~~ ~~Smeagol~~ 17===		====Statement by Doug Weller====
			I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and ]'s comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving ] to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. ] (]) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. ] ] 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

			:::I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... ] ] 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

			===Result concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''		:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''

			{{u\|PerspicazHistorian}}, can you explain your understanding of ] and the ] rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring ''even if they aren't breaking 3RR''. ] (]) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
	<!-- When closing this request use {{hat\|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->		<!-- When closing this request use {{hat\|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
			:@], that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is ''the first time'' someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
	*While I agree "Syrian government" is more neutral than "Assad regime", this is what talk pages are for. I note one of these breaches was followed by a which was , which smacks of gaming the 1RR rule. The other two seem to be clear 1RR breaches and as a warning was previously issued, a short block is probably necessary. A look at the editing history of that article shows some tag team reverting by various editors which may warrant looking into. <u style="text-decoration:none;font:1.1em/1em Arial Black;letter-spacing:-0.09em">]+]</u> 16:04, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
			:<small>Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is ]; in their ] NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here.</small> ] (]) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
	*:Perhaps gaming was too strong a term, but making the second revert, undoing yourself, and then after a bunch of intervening edits by other editors, remaking the same edit just outside the 24 hour window for 1RR is not really conducive to collaborative editing. The one-revert-a-day rule, as with the three-reverts-a-day rule on standard articles, is not an entitlement. You don't have to make sure you get your one revert in a day. The revert rules are an arbitrary mechanism to stop edit warring, with the intent to nudge people into editing collaboratively; ideally you should be discussing, challenging, asking questions, making your case, reviewing sources, compromising, and so on - all the things that mean being a good, collaborative editor - on the article talk page. You should not be clock-watching to see when you can make another revert. I hope the short block you're likely to get gives you a chance to go read a few talk pages and learn a that there is a better, less stressful, more enjoyable way to do things. <u style="text-decoration:none;font:1.1em/1em Arial Black;letter-spacing:-0.09em">]+]</u> 11:02, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
	*Looks like this Smeagol 17 has been working this particular revert (Assad ==> Syrian) for several days so any "I've been above board about my motives" arguments is disingenuous at best. A short block is in order. --] <small>(])</small> 15:00, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

			*<!--
	==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Sir Joseph==
			-->
	{{hat\|1=Appeal declined as frivolous. Block duration extended to one week. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 07:31, 23 February 2019 (UTC)}}
	<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found ]. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.''</small> <p><small>''To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small></p>

			==Walter Tau==
	; Appealing user : {{userlinks\|Sir Joseph}} – ] <sup>]</sup> 22:22, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
			<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

			===Request concerning Walter Tau===
	; Sanction being appealed : 72 Hour Block for 1rr Violation
			; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks\|Bobby Cohn}} 20:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)


			; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks\|Walter Tau}}<p>{{ds/log\|Walter Tau}}</p>
	; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin\|GoldenRing}}

			<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	; Notification of that administrator : ''The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a ] of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.''

			;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
	===Statement by Sir Joseph===
			<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

			; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
	I am requesting an appeal (I do have other reason, but I am requesting mainly on legal reasons, since this is AE and AE is supposed to be 100% legal)
			<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
	<br>I did not realize this at first, but the AE request itself was invalid and should have been dismissed.
			# Creation (and subsequent editing and AfC submission) of ]. See it's page history, there's no need to supply the entirety of the diffs here.
	<br>This is the AE action brought against me, .
			#* For context on how this subject falls under the purview, see the context given by the news article as shared on the talk page: Russia using adoption of Ukranian children during the Russo-Ukranian war.<ref>{{cite news \|last1=Bruce \|first1=Camdyn \|title=Ukrainian official rips Russia for 'kidnapping' more than 13,000 children \|url=https://thehill.com/policy/international/3775681-ukrainian-official-rips-russia-for-kidnapping-more-than-13000-children/ \|work=The Hill \|date=14 December 2022}}</ref> Then note how this state program directly discusses adoption support, which was adapted by Putin following the start of the war. A citation given in the draft article.<ref>{{cite news \|title=Путин подписал закон, уточняющий условия выплаты материнского капитала \|url=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/937864 \|work=interfax.ru\|trans-title=Putin signs law clarifying conditions for payment of maternity capital}}</ref> The version specifically notes the changes "At the same time, residents of the '''''new regions''''' will receive maternity capital '''''regardless of the basis and timing of their acquisition of Russian citizenship'''''" (emphasis mine).
	<br> However, if you look at the section "If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness_and_alerts)"
			#:This draft, as it is written, is extremely promotional in areas and could basically be hosted on a state-sponsored website. Given the context, I believe this falls under the topic ban.
	<br>Note the text '''Supply evidence that the user is aware of them''', Nableezy only showed that there was an edit notice in place. If you go to ] you will see that while there are ADDITIONAL requirements for page restrictions, there are requirements for alerting that Nableezy did not do or highlight which makes this AE action invalid.
			{{reflist-talk}}
	<br>
	This is from: ]
	No editor may be sanctioned unless they are aware that discretionary sanctions are in force for the area of conflict. An editor is aware if:
	# They were mentioned by name in the applicable Final Decision; or
	# They have ever been sanctioned within the area of conflict (and at least one of such sanctions has not been successfully appealed); or
	# <u>In the last twelve months</u>, the editor has given and/or received an ] for the area of conflict; or
	# <u>In the last twelve months</u>, the editor has participated in any process about the area of conflict at ] or ]; or
	# <u>In the last twelve months</u>, the editor has successfully appealed all their own sanctions relating to the area of conflict.
	There are ] in place when sanctioning editors for breaching page restrictions.
	Therefore for the above reasons, I humbly submit my appeal, mainly on this specific issue. The only other issue I will bring up is that at the point of the block, the block was punitive, not preventative, and while an admin can take unilateral action and block, at the specific point in time, the edit was well over a day old and some admins were not in favor of a block and I think that even if a block was placed, a 72 hour block was far too long for a block.

			; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
	===Statement by GoldenRing===
			<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
			# Notice given by {{admin\|Rosguill}} that they were now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction
			# Blocked by {{admin\|Swatjester}} for violating the sanction based on the edits to a project page.

			;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
	===Statement by Nableezy===
			<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
	I opened the request. To the point of the appeal, Sir Joseph was of the discretionary sanctions within the past 12 months. Making that purely wikilawyering. An arbitration block does not even require an AE thread. Enforcing a page level restriction requires that the user be aware of the sanctions and an edit-notice. All it would take for Sir Joseph to get unblocked would be an acknowledgement that he did in fact violate the 1RR and a promise to abide by it in the future. But no, he wikilawyered around the revert, or attempted to, and is wikilawerying over the block now. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 00:00, 23 February 2019 (UTC)</small>
			*Has been made aware, see the diffs in the above section.
			*Alerted about contentious topics as it applies to this specific draft, on by {{admin\|Asilvering}}, given a warning about this specific draft and how it falls under the above purview.

			; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
	===Statement by (involved editor 1)===
			<!-- Add any further comment here -->
			It has been repeatedly pointed out to Walter Tau that they are skirting the line of the their topic ban by specifically not mentioning the "elephant in the room", see the diff by Asilvering above. They have also repeatedly chosen to ignore advice that they stop editing in the subject area and have repeatedly claimed to fail to see how their editing is problematic. As such, I have opened this discussion here so as to get an answer for Walter Tau on their editing, see They claim to continuously be unaware of the ban, see also their talk page discussions.

			; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
	===Statement by (involved editor 2)===
			Notified .

			<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Sir Joseph ===
	*'''Endorse block per Nableezy''' From what I've seen, this is just further disruption from a disruptive user who seems, to me, to enjoy arguing. ( His energy and eloquence would have been better spent at the AE thread that lead to the block.) Simply put, he violated 1RR, knew better, was sanctioned (minimally) and has no sound basis to be unblocked or to appeal the AE action. At risk of being accused of casting aspersions, my conclusion from my observations is his wikilawyering is for its own sake and vacant of any substance. ] ] 00:16, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
	*:{{reply\|Vanamonde93}} Were it within my power to extend the block, I would do so. Ordinarily, such would be unseemly and excessive. But as blocks are preventative, and as appealant shows no indication of accepting that their behavior is/was inappropriate, and in fact continues to "game the system" disruptively and frivolously, a block extension would be warranted. ] ] 03:17, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
	* '''Endorse'''. Even if the appeal were not dishonest (which Nableezy's evidence shows it to be), it would still be Wikilawyering and arguably a ] violation. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 00:27, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

			===Discussion concerning Walter Tau===
	===Result of the appeal by Sir Joseph===
			<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

			====Statement by Walter Tau====
			I feel, that the decision by ] regarding my draft https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Maternity_capital, is "arbitrary and capriciuos" to use US legal terms : ], for the following reasons:

			1) nowhere my draft mentions the words "Ukraine" or "Ukrainian".

			2) this draft ] is a translation of the original Russian wiki- article : https://ru.wikipedia.org/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB . I have heard the argument, that different languages in Misplaced Pages use different standards for articles' notability etc. Can someone please provide a web-link to Misplaced Pages rules, that actually confirms, that different standards for different languages is the currently accepted policy. I have been unable to find such statement.

			3) In fact, my draft focuses mostly on the policies before 24 February 2022, i.e. before full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine.

			4) Please correct me, if I am wrong, by it seems that ]'s only argument of my ban violation is the following statement in my draft of ].
			"Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship." In my defense: I did not write that statement- it is a Google translation from the Russian wiki, actually a small part of the translated text. And with all honesty, when I was reading the translated text, it did not cross my mind, that someone may interpret so broadly. Also, this sentence-in-question does not really add much to the main subject to the article, and I do not object to its deletion.

			5) Considering, that
			a) I did not write, but only translated the text-in-question;
			b) the relevance to the text-in-question to my topic ban is not apparent, particularly in the larger context of the whole article;
			c) I do not object deleting the text-in-question from the draft;
			may I suggest changing the draft to fix this controversy?

			6) If there are other controversial sections/sentences in my translated draft, it may be better if someone re-writes them. Most wiki-readers, can agree with a statement, that this draft ] may not reach an "Article of the Day" status, but it has a value as a stand-alone article as well as a source of references (more-to-be-added).
			] (]) 13:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

			I can see now, why some editors consider the translated addition, that I made, a violation of my ban on editing Russia-Ukraine topic. It was not my intention. I fact, I agree with the deletion of the questionable sentence "Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship.". At the same time, I would like to keep the rest of draft, so that myself and other keep working on getting it published. Do I understand correctly, that the notability of this topic is not being questioned?

			====Statement by TylerBurden====
			Walter Tau doesn't seem to think they have done anything wrong on Misplaced Pages, so it's honestly not surprising to see them continuing to push the limit despite the sanctions they have received. At some point you have to wonder if there is a foundational ] or trolling (or a combination of both) issue. Either way, yes they are clearly violating their topic ban by writing about the Russian kidnapping of Ukrainian children from the war, because that is what this whole ″adoption″ thing is. --] (]) 17:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

			====Statement by (username)====
			<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

			===Result concerning Walter Tau===
	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''		:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
	<!-- When closing this request ~~(once there is a consensus)~~ use {{hat\|Result}} / {{hab}} if at ~~AE,~~ or an ~~archive/discussion~~ ~~box template~~ if on ~~AN,~~ ~~inform~~ ~~the~~ ~~user~~ on ~~their~~ ~~talk~~ ~~page~~ and note it in the discretionary sanctions log ~~below where their sanctions is logged~~. -->		<!-- When closing this request use {{hat\|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
			*Sidestepping for now the question of whether simply not mentioning anything conflict-related would have been enough to avoid a TBAN violation, the references to "new regions" make this a violation much more straightforwardly. Justice is blind but not stupid. Walter, I think we're going to need to see recognition from you that this was a TBAN violation, if we're going to find a good path forward here. I'd also like to know who you are referring to when you reference other editors working on the draft? ] has made some gnomish edits but you appear to be the only substantive editor. And why are you implying, on Bobby's talk, that y'all have been corresponding by email, when he denies that? <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">[]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 22:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
	*'''Decline'''. Sir Joseph was aware that the area is under discretionary sanctions, per , but is appealing on the ground that Nableezy failed to ''supply evidence'' that he was aware. I. e., Nableezy didn't supply the link to the DS alert which I have just given. Wikilawyering was one the issues that led to the sanction, and here's some more of it. You don't often see it this crude. ] \| ] 01:00, 23 February 2019 (UTC).
			*I'll be direct: I think Walter knows what he is doing and has no intention of abiding by his TBAN, , and I don't think we should be wasting further time here when we're almost certainly going to be right back here again within a few weeks. ]] <small><sup>Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!</sup></small> 05:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	*'''Decline'''. If anything, this appeal makes me want to lengthen the block, but I will resist that temptation. <span style="font-family:Papyrus">] (])</span> 01:23, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
			*Back off a one week block for violating the topic ban, and already violating it again? (The "new regions" material is unquestionably a violation.) It seems that Walter Tau is either unwilling or unable to abide by the restriction, and does not, even after explanation, understand any of the issues here (or even understand something so simple as that different language Wikipedias are independent from one another and each have their own policies and practices). Given that, I don't see anything to be done here except to indef. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 17:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
	*:{{re\|Dlohcierekim}} I sympathize. It isn't altogether out of our power: when I spoke of resisting the temptation I was simply making a point, but although an individual administrator cannot modify an AE action, we can certainly modify it if we have consensus to do so here. At the moment I am of the opinion that a "decline with prejudice" close to this appeal should be enough of a reminder to Joseph, but I'm not opposed to an extension, either. <span style="font-family:Papyrus">] (])</span> 03:21, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
			<!--
	*'''Decline''', and I wouldn't mind lengthening the block either. As per ], {{tq\|Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.}} The filing of this wikilawyering appeal seems to constitute "fresh misconduct" to me. ] (]) 04:38, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
			-->
	*I'm closing this request because there is consensus that the appeal is frivolous. I'm also extending the block duration to one week because it is clear, judging by this appeal, that a 72 hour block is not sufficient to deter Sir Joseph from disruption. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 07:30, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
	{{hab}}

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See also: Logged AE sanctions

Important informationShortcuts

Please use this page only to:

request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
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Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction.

The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
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submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

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Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change, or is no longer an administrator; or
The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
- the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
- the restriction was an indefinite block.

A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
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Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

Standard of review
On community review

Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.

On Arbitration Committee review

Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.

The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

Appeals by sanctioned editors

Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
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Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

Important notes:

For a request to succeed, either

(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or

(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA

is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.

While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
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Information for administrators processing requests

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A couple of reminders:

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M.Bitton

M.Bitton is warned against casting aspersions and reminded to abide by WP:CIVIL. Vanamonde93 (talk) 06:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning M.Bitton User who is submitting this request for enforcement XDanielx (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 07:55, 10 December 2024 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested M.Bitton (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced WP:ARBPIA Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it I'll limit this to WP:CIVIL related issues for now, since they're easiest to evaluate with minimal context. 2024-12-09 xDanielx being disingenuous again (what they mean by "no explanation" is "no explanation that they agree with") 2024-12-08 casting aspersions to justify your disruptive editing is about as low as it gets ... this is extremely disingenuous ... made-up rules and demands to satisfy you 2024-12-08 please don't make-up another rule ... maybe that's because you only see what you want to see (partly struck per admin request) 2024-12-01, 2024-12-01 Misplaced Pages is not a collection of every piece of alleged garbage 2024-11-18 When someone keeps misrepresenting the sources (again and again), then I will rightly assume disingenuousness 2024-11-18 I'm starting to question your motives 2024-11-18 Please refrain from repeating your lies (edited to You're being extremely disingenuous. You misrepresented the sources (clearly to push a POV) 2024-11-15 I don't take lessons from those who misrepresent the sources and edit war over WP:OR 2024-11-15 please don't attribute your nonsense to me (this is totally unacceptable) 2024-11-15 Bobfrombrockley is busy adding whatever garbage they can find 2024-11-15 you've been very busy adding whatever garbage you could find to the article 2024-11-15 Do you expect me to explain to you what "freedom of expression" is? 2024-11-14 I'm done wasting my time with this nonsense ... Your self-serving opinion is irrelevant 2024-11-12 offensive humor Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any I'm not aware of CTOP sanctions. The block log seems to show four blocks, but they're not that recent and I'm not sure how relevant they are. If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics) Was a subject of a previous ARBPIA AE request. Made a couple other statements in ARBPIA AE requests: 2024-12-06, 2024-12-08 Additional comments by editor filing complaint Another 15 diffs were (rightfully) removed by an admin for exceeding the diff limit as well as falling outside PIA scope; just mentioning for transparency. They might be relevant on a different forum but admittedly not here. — xDanielx /_C\ 16:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC) @Theleekycauldron: I planned to file something after the "garbage" comments (about BobFromBrockley) on Talk:Al-Manar. I reconsidered after being surprised by M.Bitton's diplomatic compromise there. Admittedly M.Bitton's comments in the thread above prompted me to reconsider again, but that wasn't about the fact that I might receive a warning there (irrespective of M.Bitton's participation); it was just about me personally being on the receiving end of some personal attacks. I don't really follow why me being emotionally affected by the conduct would affect the legitimacy of the report. Most of the incivility was directed at other users, and letting this conduct continue wouldn't seem fair to them. — xDanielx /_C\ 16:41, 10 December 2024 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested 2024-12-09 Discussion concerning M.Bitton Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by M.Bitton Not content with edit warring, assuming bad faith and casting aspersions (see #xDanielx), they now decided to go even lower and file a retaliatory report. M.Bitton (talk) 09:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC) @Vanamonde93 and Ealdgyth: I just want to draw your attention to their aspersions casting tag-team revert (their edit summary, while striking it, leaves no doubt about they believe) and the fact that they falsely accused me: of ignoring their ping (when I was logged out) and reverting without an explanation (when, in fact, I did provide one). M.Bitton (talk) 18:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC) @Ealdgyth: I agree and will make sure that doesn't happen in the future, regardless of what's coming the other way. I should know better than let myself take the bait, but lesson learnt nonetheless. M.Bitton (talk) 18:14, 10 December 2024 (UTC) @Valereee: sure. M.Bitton (talk) 00:36, 11 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning M.Bitton This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. This is shamelessly and obviously a retaliatory filing, and I'm leaning towards a one- or two-way interaction ban to stop the back-and-forth sniping. But I'd still draw uninvolved admins' attention to this thread and ask what their thoughts are. That seems like pretty battleground-y behavior to me. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 14:27, 10 December 2024 (UTC) I see it as a bit retaliatory, but we do need to stop this sniping, especially at AE and other such venues. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC) Yeah, a logged warning sounds like enough to me, given their responses so far. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 00:36, 11 December 2024 (UTC) Yes, this is retaliatory, and at the same time, M. Bitton's language is not acceptable. Bad behavior should be addressed at an administrator noticeboard, or in a civil post to a user talk page, not with what SFR accurately describes as sniping. I would log a warning for casting aspersions. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:15, 10 December 2024 (UTC) I agree with SFR and Vanamonde93 that the language used does not help the topic area at all. I don't know if M.Bitton's had a long history of logged warnings before (I'm a bit busy trying to get the farm ready for an artic clipper coming in) but I'm fine with a logged warning. But the filer should be aware that they need to also try to avoid retaliatory-filing look in the future... Ealdgyth (talk) 17:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC) I'm not happy about Daniel's behavior (but will try to find time to look at it in the earlier filing to avoid getting this one off track) but, M.Bitton, your comments are not just sub-par, but not at all what editors should be directing at others. An acknowledgment of that and working to avoid that in the future is something you need to seriously consider if you're not going to end up sanctioned in the future. Ealdgyth (talk) 18:08, 10 December 2024 (UTC) I also think a logged warning should be adequate here, particularly given the limited sanctions history and the commitment to do better in the future. Personally I'm not bothered by the timing of this report in light of xDanielx's explanation, although it's wise to avoid even the appearance of retaliation when you're at AE. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 22:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC) I don't disagree that this is retaliatory, but that doesn't moot the issue. M.Bitton does tend to approach editing in a battleground-y way, and their language often escalates rather than de-escalates. I'd very much like you to start using de-escalating language, M.Bitton. Can you discuss that? Valereee (talk) 00:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC) I meant can you discuss it here, but maybe I wasn't clear. Valereee (talk) 15:56, 17 December 2024 (UTC) Have not read this but will note that xDanielx is at their word limit. Daniel if you want to post anything else please get an extension first from an uninvolved administrator. Barkeep49 (talk) 02:48, 11 December 2024 (UTC) Comment to stave off the bot. Looks like the proposed resolution here is a warning for battleground behavior, does that still seem the way to go? Seraphimblade 09:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC) A logged warning, sure. Valereee (talk) 15:54, 17 December 2024 (UTC) Agreed, and I also agree we should put this to bed. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

M.Bitton is warned against casting aspersions and reminded to abide by WP:CIVIL. Vanamonde93 (talk) 06:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning M.Bitton

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: XDanielx (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 07:55, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: M.Bitton (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBPIA

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

I'll limit this to WP:CIVIL related issues for now, since they're easiest to evaluate with minimal context.

2024-12-09 xDanielx being disingenuous again (what they mean by "no explanation" is "no explanation that they agree with")
2024-12-08 casting aspersions to justify your disruptive editing is about as low as it gets ... this is extremely disingenuous ... made-up rules and demands to satisfy you
2024-12-08 please don't make-up another rule ... maybe that's because you only see what you want to see (partly struck per admin request)
2024-12-01, 2024-12-01 Misplaced Pages is not a collection of every piece of alleged garbage
2024-11-18 When someone keeps misrepresenting the sources (again and again), then I will rightly assume disingenuousness
2024-11-18 I'm starting to question your motives
2024-11-18 Please refrain from repeating your lies (edited to You're being extremely disingenuous. You misrepresented the sources (clearly to push a POV)
2024-11-15 I don't take lessons from those who misrepresent the sources and edit war over WP:OR
2024-11-15 please don't attribute your nonsense to me (this is totally unacceptable)
2024-11-15 Bobfrombrockley is busy adding whatever garbage they can find
2024-11-15 you've been very busy adding whatever garbage you could find to the article
2024-11-15 Do you expect me to explain to you what "freedom of expression" is?
2024-11-14 I'm done wasting my time with this nonsense ... Your self-serving opinion is irrelevant
2024-11-12 offensive humor

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

I'm not aware of CTOP sanctions. The block log seems to show four blocks, but they're not that recent and I'm not sure how relevant they are.

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

Was a subject of a previous ARBPIA AE request.
Made a couple other statements in ARBPIA AE requests: 2024-12-06, 2024-12-08

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Another 15 diffs were (rightfully) removed by an admin for exceeding the diff limit as well as falling outside PIA scope; just mentioning for transparency. They might be relevant on a different forum but admittedly not here. — xDanielx /_C\ 16:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

@Theleekycauldron: I planned to file something after the "garbage" comments (about BobFromBrockley) on Talk:Al-Manar. I reconsidered after being surprised by M.Bitton's diplomatic compromise there. Admittedly M.Bitton's comments in the thread above prompted me to reconsider again, but that wasn't about the fact that I might receive a warning there (irrespective of M.Bitton's participation); it was just about me personally being on the receiving end of some personal attacks. I don't really follow why me being emotionally affected by the conduct would affect the legitimacy of the report. Most of the incivility was directed at other users, and letting this conduct continue wouldn't seem fair to them. — xDanielx /_C\ 16:41, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

2024-12-09

Discussion concerning M.Bitton

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by M.Bitton

Not content with edit warring, assuming bad faith and casting aspersions (see #xDanielx), they now decided to go even lower and file a retaliatory report. M.Bitton (talk) 09:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

@Vanamonde93 and Ealdgyth: I just want to draw your attention to their aspersions casting tag-team revert (their edit summary, while striking it, leaves no doubt about they believe) and the fact that they falsely accused me: of ignoring their ping (when I was logged out) and reverting without an explanation (when, in fact, I did provide one). M.Bitton (talk) 18:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

@Ealdgyth: I agree and will make sure that doesn't happen in the future, regardless of what's coming the other way. I should know better than let myself take the bait, but lesson learnt nonetheless. M.Bitton (talk) 18:14, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

@Valereee: sure. M.Bitton (talk) 00:36, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning M.Bitton

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

This is shamelessly and obviously a retaliatory filing, and I'm leaning towards a one- or two-way interaction ban to stop the back-and-forth sniping. But I'd still draw uninvolved admins' attention to this thread and ask what their thoughts are. That seems like pretty battleground-y behavior to me. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 14:27, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
I see it as a bit retaliatory, but we do need to stop this sniping, especially at AE and other such venues. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, a logged warning sounds like enough to me, given their responses so far. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 00:36, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes, this is retaliatory, and at the same time, M. Bitton's language is not acceptable. Bad behavior should be addressed at an administrator noticeboard, or in a civil post to a user talk page, not with what SFR accurately describes as sniping. I would log a warning for casting aspersions. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:15, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
I agree with SFR and Vanamonde93 that the language used does not help the topic area at all. I don't know if M.Bitton's had a long history of logged warnings before (I'm a bit busy trying to get the farm ready for an artic clipper coming in) but I'm fine with a logged warning. But the filer should be aware that they need to also try to avoid retaliatory-filing look in the future... Ealdgyth (talk) 17:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not happy about Daniel's behavior (but will try to find time to look at it in the earlier filing to avoid getting this one off track) but, M.Bitton, your comments are not just sub-par, but not at all what editors should be directing at others. An acknowledgment of that and working to avoid that in the future is something you need to seriously consider if you're not going to end up sanctioned in the future. Ealdgyth (talk) 18:08, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
I also think a logged warning should be adequate here, particularly given the limited sanctions history and the commitment to do better in the future. Personally I'm not bothered by the timing of this report in light of xDanielx's explanation, although it's wise to avoid even the appearance of retaliation when you're at AE. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 22:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
I don't disagree that this is retaliatory, but that doesn't moot the issue. M.Bitton does tend to approach editing in a battleground-y way, and their language often escalates rather than de-escalates. I'd very much like you to start using de-escalating language, M.Bitton. Can you discuss that? Valereee (talk) 00:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
I meant can you discuss it here, but maybe I wasn't clear. Valereee (talk) 15:56, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Have not read this but will note that xDanielx is at their word limit. Daniel if you want to post anything else please get an extension first from an uninvolved administrator. Barkeep49 (talk) 02:48, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
Comment to stave off the bot. Looks like the proposed resolution here is a warning for battleground behavior, does that still seem the way to go? Seraphimblade 09:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
A logged warning, sure. Valereee (talk) 15:54, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Agreed, and I also agree we should put this to bed. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Ethiopian Epic

Request concerning Ethiopian Epic

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Tinynanorobots (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 11:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Ethiopian Epic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

November 14th created during the Yasuke case and went active when it ended. First 11 edits were to Government of Japan. In one case three edits were used to write one sentence.
November 12 Manually reverted the lead back to how it was in September.
November 16 Falsely Claimed cited material was OR. (G
November 24 Falsely Claimed cited material was unsourced
November 24 It took an ANI report to get him to use the article talk page. His defense was accusations and denial.
November 23 He reverted to a version that went against consensus established on the talk page and contained a falsely sourced quote.
November 25 Engages in sealioning
November 29 Removes a well sourced line from Yasuke as well as reverted an edit that was the result of BRD. He has now started disputes with me on all three Yasuke related articles.
November 30 starts disputing a new section of
December 2 Brought again to ANI, he claims that I didn't get consensus for changes, even though I had discussed them on talk prior to making them.
December 4 He keeps mentioning ONUS, and asking me to discuss it, in response to me discussing.
December 9 Used a non-controversial revert to hide his edit warring.
December 11 did the same thing on List of foreign-born samurai in Japan.
December 11 He also repeatedly complains that he doesn't like the definition because it is vague and claims that his preferred version is "status quo"

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Date Explanation
Date Explanation

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics): [

Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on December 1 (see the system log linked to above).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I am not sure if this is actually a AE matter, but was told to go here by multiple admins. The biggest issue is the Editing against consensus on accompanied by bludgeoning. However, there are signs of bad faith editing on all three pages where I have interacted with EE. It could also be a CIR issue or it could be some sort of harassment. I don't know. I just know that EE first avoided providing clear reasons for reverting edits and has been trying to engage in Status Quo Stonewalling. He keeps citing Onus or Burden and asks me not to make a change until the discussion is over. Often, this doesn't make sense in context, because the change was in place. He has made false claims about sources and what they say. His editing on Yasuke is not so much a problem as the discussion which comes across as gaslighting.

@User:Red-tailed hawk, I am not an expert on proxies or socks. All the IPs have only posted on the one article and have advocated an odd definition for samurai, that doesn't apply to the article. All except the first one have just reverted. It is possible that this is just laziness, or lack of confidence in writing skills etc. After all, the false citation was added by another user and was just kept. I found the latest one the most suspect, in part because of it first reverting to the incorrect definition, before restoring most of the text and second because of falsely citing policy. I am not sure if they are proxies, but I hoped that someone here would have the expertise to know. I don't think the proxy evidence is the most important. EE is either acting in bad faith or has CIR problems. The later is possible, because he thanked City of Silver during ANI, although City of Silver has been the harshest critic of EE's behaviour towards me.

I think there should be some important context to the quote: "those who serve in close attendance to the nobility". The quote can be found in several books, on Samurai it is sourced to an article published in Black Belt Magazine in the 80s by William Scott Wilson, where he describes the origin of the word samurai. He is describing the early phases of its meaning in that quote, before it became to have martial connotations. It also refers to the time before 900. The earliest foreign samurai on the list was in the late 1500s. It also doesn't apply to most of the persons on the list. Finally, it is not mentioned in Vaporis's book, which EE keeps adding as the source. He hasn't even made the effort to copy the citation from Samurai.

@User:Eronymous

Not only did I have a dispute with Symphony Regalia about samurai being "retainers to lords", but also on Yasuke about "As a samurai" and on List of Foreign-born Samurai in Japan EE made the same reverts as SR. EE had with his first edit in all three articles continued a dispute that I had already had with SR.

@User:Ethiopian Epic I actually don't have a problem with you discussing things. Your talk page posts aren't really discussion though. Your main argument on all three pages has been a shifting of the burden of proof. You don't really discuss content and continually ask me not to make changes without discussing first, and then make changes yourself. I understand that your position is that your preferred version is the status quo. However, my edits regarding the definition on List of Foreign-born samurai in Japan , were discussed and consensus was clearly gotten. Similarly, my edits on Yasuke were discussed, and even though I didn't use the exact same version as Gitz said, Gitz had suggested using warrior instead of bushi, so I used samurai, because I thought it would be less controversial.
Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Ethiopian Epic

Statement by Ethiopian Epic

This is clear retaliatory filing because I recently didn't agree with Tinynanorobot's edits against RFC consensus, and because I made talk page sections on some recent edits.

@Eronymous That's not true and you are a very obvious alt account with only 26 edits. No one gave you a notification of this discussion and it's not on the Yasuke talk page. This suggests you are the sock puppet of someone here. Your post is also misleading and incorrect it wasn't an insertion. The line you are talking about in Samurai has been there for over 10 years and is normal. I know because I've read it before. Here is a version from 2017 that still has it. I don't understand why you are misrepresenting edits and using an alt account.

@Red-tailed hawk I think he is just fishing. That's why he removed his IP claims. Even his other diffs are just mislabeled regular behavior. It's amusing because Eronymous is the likely alt of Tinynanorobots or someone posting here. I think the way Tinynanorobots edits against clear consensus, skips discussion, and then files frivolous ANI/AE reports with misleading narrative like above is disruptive. Discussion is an easy solution and benefits everyone. I hope he will respect RFC consensus.

Statement by Relm

I am largely unfamiliar with the account in question, but I do frequently check Yasuke. I believe that EthiopianEpic has displayed a clear slant and battleground mindset in their editing in regards to the topic of Yasuke, but that their conduct on the Yasuke page itself so far has generally been in the ballpark of good faith edits. The revert on December 9th was justified, and their topic on November 29th is well within bounds (though I acknowledge that the background of their prior disputes on other pages with Tinynanorobots shows it may be edit warring) given that the two things being reverted was a change that seemed to skirt the prior RFC with agreement being given in a very non-direct way, and the other portion being an addition which had not been discussed on the talk page prior to its implementation (though previous discussions ered on the side of not including it). I am not accusing Tinynanorobots of any misconduct in any part of that either.

What I will note is that in addition to the sockpuppet IP allegations made by Tinynanorobots, I wanted to lodge that the posting style of EthiopianEpic, as well as their knowledge of much of the previous discussions on the page deep in the archive, led me to suspect that they were an alt of User:Symphony_Regalia. I never found anything conclusive. Relm (talk) 14:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Simonm223

These two editors have been tangling at WP:AN/I repeatedly. Last time they came there I said that this would likely continue until a third party intervened. And then the thread got archived with no action (see AN/I thread here) so I'm not surprised that the two of them are still tangling. There is evidence that both editors have engaged in a slow-motion edit war. Both have claimed the other is editing against consensus. Here I will say that it appears TinyNanoRobots is more correct than Ethiopian Epic. Furthermore, while neither editors' comportment has been stellar, as other editors have pointed out, it appears more that EE is following TNR about and giving them a hard time than the alternate. . In the linked AN/I case (above) you'll note EE attempted a boomerang on TNR and was not well-received for the effort.

Frankly my view is that both editors are not editing to the best standards of Misplaced Pages but there is definitely a more disruptive member of this duo and that is Ethiopian Epic. I think it would probably cut down on the noise considerably if they were encouraged to find somewhere to edit which was not a CTOP subject and if they were encouraged to leave TNR alone. Simonm223 (talk) 18:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Eronymous

Similar to Relm I check on the Yasuke page every so often, and it seems very likely given the evidence that User:Ethiopian Epic is an alt of User:Symphony_Regalia created to evade his recent ArbCom sanctions, having started editing the day prior to the Yasuke case closure. Of note to this is the last edit of Symphony_Regalia on Samurai was him attempting to insert the line "who served as retainers to lords (including daimyo)" - curiously enough, Ethiopian Epic's first edit on Samurai (and first large edit, having just prior made 11 minor ones in a short timeframe to reach autoconfirmed status) is him attempting to insert the same controversial line that was reverted before.

Symphony_Regalia has a history of utilising socks to edit Yasuke/Samurai related topics and is indefinitely blocked from the .jp wiki for extensive sockpuppetry (plus multiple suspected IPs) for this.

Prior to being sanctioned Symphony Regalia frequently got into exactly the same arguments concerning wording/source material with User:Tinynanorobots that Ethiopian Epic is now. One could assume based on their relationship that he is aggrieved that Tinynanorobots was not sanctioned by ArbCom during the case and is now continuously feuding with him to change that through edit warring and multiple administrator incidents/arbitration requests in the past few weeks. Eronymous (talk) 22:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Nil Einne

I was ?one of the editors who suggested Tinynanorobots consider ARE in the future. I did this mostly because after three threads on ANI with no result, I felt a change of venue might be more productive especially since the more structured nature of ARE, as well as a likely greater concern over low level of misconduct meant that some outcome was more likely. (For clarity, when I suggested this I did feel nothing would happen from the third ANI thread but in any case my advice being taken onboard would likely mean the third thread had no result.) I did try to make clear that I wasn't saying there was definitely a problem requiring sanction and also it was possible Tinynanorobots might themselves end up sanctioned. Since a topic ban on both is being considered, I might have been right in a way. If a topic ban results, I'd like to suggest admins considered some guidance beyond broadly constructed on how any topic ban would apply. While the entirety of the Yasuke article and the list of foreign born samurai stuff seem clear enough, one concern I've had at ANI is how to handle the editing at Samurai and its talk page. A lot of the recent stuff involving these editors seems to relate to the definition of samurai. AFAIK, this is generally been a big part of the dispute of Yasuke (he can/can't be a samurai because it means A which was/wasn't true about him). Nil Einne (talk) 12:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Result concerning Ethiopian Epic

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I've never been very impressed with retaliatory filings, and the one below is no exception. I will also note that I'm never too impressed with "must be a sock" type accusations—either file at SPI or don't. In this case, though, I think Yasuke would be better off if neither of these two were participating there. Seraphimblade 19:33, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Red-tailed hawk, what are your thoughts after the responses to you? Seraphimblade 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
I think that it would be declined if it were an WP:SPI report and the editor should be mindful not to throw sock accusations around willy-nilly going forward. But I typically don't see any sort of sanction imposed when someone makes a bad SPI report, particularly if they're newer or aren't quite clueful yet. So I don't see much to do on that front other than tell them that we need more specific evidence of socking when reports are made than merely shared interest, particularly when the IPs are scattered across the world. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 02:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
I'm still inclined to topic ban both these editors from Yasuke, but would be interested in hearing more thoughts on that if anyone has them. Seraphimblade 07:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
I also generally don't like "might-be-a-sock"-style accusations; when we are accusing someone of sockpuppetry by logged out editing we typically need evidence to substantiate it rather than just floating the possibility in a flimsy way. Filer has provided several diffs above as possible socks, but each of those IPs geolocates to a different country (Germany, Norway, and Argentina respectively) and I don't see evidence that any of those IPs are proxies.@Tinynanorobots: Can you explain what led you to note the IP edits? Is it merely shared interest and viewpoint, or is there something more?— Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 02:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Looking at this .... mess... first, I'm not sure what actually was against the ArbCom decision - I don't see a 1RR violation being alleged, and the rest really appears to me to be "throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks". But, like Seraphimblade, I'm not impressed with either of these editors actual conduct here or in general. I could be brought around to supporting a topic ban for both of these editors in the interests of clearing up the whole topic area. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
@Tinynanorobots: you are well above the 500 word limit. Please request an extension before adding anything more. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Tinynanorobots

Request concerning Tinynanorobots

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: EEpic (talk) 19:14, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Tinynanorobots (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Yasuke

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

09:21, 14 November 2024. Tinynanorobots removes As a samurai from the lead text and replaces it with signifying bushi status against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification).
17:12, 15 November 2024. Tinynanorobots removes who served as a samurai from the lead text and adds who became a bushi or samurai against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate).
12:43, 20 November 2024. On List of Foreign-born Samurai, Tinynanorobots removes the longstanding definition and adds This list includes persons who ... may not have been considered a samurai against RFC consensus (There exists a consensus against presenting Yasuke's samurai status as the object of debate).
07:48, 23 November 2024. Tinynanorobots reverts to remove As a samurai in the Yasuke article after Gitz6666 opposes at , again ignoring WP:ONUS.
03:13, 4 December 2024. I restore and start a talk page discussion so that consensus can be formed.
14:10, 6 December 2024 . Tinynanorobots, when consensus fails to form for his position, becomes uncivil and engages in a sarcastic personal attack What you are saying doesn't make sense. Perhaps there is a language issue here. Maybe your native language handles the future differently than English?
14:22, 11 December 2024. Tinynanorobots removes "As a samurai" again, ignoring WP:ONUS and BRD even though no consensus has formed for his position, and no consensus has formed to change existing consensus.
08:37, 6 December 2024. Tinynanorobots explains their reasons, I don't know if samurai is the right term which is against consensus.
07:27, 28 November 2024. POV-pushing - With no edit summary Tinynanorobots tag bombs by adding Slavery in Japan.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Date Explanation
Date Explanation

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 23:06, 13 November 2024.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Tinynanorobots frequently edits against consensus, restores his edits when others revert, doesn't wait for consensus, and engages in feuding behavior. He seems to think WP:BRD or WP:ONUS don't apply to him which is disruptive, and I don't know why.

Unaccounted removals of sources 23:44, 14 September 2024 - Warning from other editor about repeated removal of content when multiple users are objecting.

AGF 12:21, 15 September 2024 - Warning from yet another editor about not assuming good faith and making personal attacks

It seems to be chronic which suggests behavior problems. Tinynanorobots also frequently fails to assume good faith in others. I don't know why as I don't have any issues with him.

Their preferred edit for Yasuke against the RFC consensus is now still in the lead section.

@Relm Sorry for the confusion. I think we talking about different edits, so I'll adjust that part. I am referring to Tinynanorobot's repeated removal of As a samurai against RFC consensus, which states There exists a consensus to refer to Yasuke as a samurai without qualification.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

18:40, 12 December 2024

Discussion concerning Tinynanorobots

Statement by Tinynanorobots

The accusations made by EE are so misleading as to be evidence against him. Most of what he is discussing is in reference to a successful BRD. I actually discussed the bold edit first on the talk, but didn't get much of a response. I decided a bold edit would get more feedback. The edits were reverted and then discussed. Gitz's main problem was OR, not a RfC violation. This was because he didn't read the cited source. Anyway, since Atkin says "signifying bushi status", I have no objection to restoring this text.

I never used any sarcasm, I know that some languages handle how they talk about time differently. It seems reasonable that a translation error could be the reason for EE asking me not to change the article, althoug my edit had already been restored by someone else and at the same time asking me to discuss that I had already discussed and was already discussing. I am disappointed that EE didn't point out that he felt attacked, so that I could apologize.

This was written in response to another user, and the whole thought is I don't know if samurai is the right term. It is the term a fair amount of sources use, and the one that the RfC says should be used. It is also consistent with common usage in reference to other historical figures. In fact earlier in that post I said this: I am not qualified to say whither or not Yasuke having a house meant that he was a samurai This is blatantly taking a quote out of context in order to prejudice the Admins against me.

@User:Ealdgyth I filed here, because the last time I filed at ANI it was suggested that I bring things here if things continue by an Admin. I try to follow advice, although I keep getting conflicting signals from Admins. I am most concerned that you find my work on Samurai and List of Foreign-born Samurai in Japan not adding anything helpful. My suggestion to rewrite the way samurai was defined on the List in order to reduce OR and bring it in line with WP:LSC was meant with unanimous approval by those who responded. Samurai is a high importance article that has tags on it from years back, is unorganized and contains outdated information. I am not the best writer, but I have gotten some books, and am pretty much the only one working on it.

I just thought that the Admins here should know about the ongoing SPI

Statement by Relm

I am the editor alluded to and quoted as 'protesting' Tinynanorobots edit. When I originally made that topic, I was fixing a different edit which left the first sentence as a grammatically incomplete sentence. When I looked at it in the editing view, one of the quotes in the citation beforehand was quoting Atkins Vera, and I mistook this for the opening quote having been changed. When I closed the editing menu I saw 'signifying samurai status' in the second paragraph and confused the two for each other as I had not noticed the addition of the latter phrase a little under a month ago. I realized my mistake almost immediately after I posted the new topic, and made this (1) edit to clarify my mistake while also attempting to instead direct the topic towards making sure that the edit recieved sufficient assent from Gitz (it did) and to talk about improvements that could be made to the opening sentence. I further clarified and made clear that I was not accusing Tinynanorobots of having done anything wrong in a later response (2).

Though many of their earlier edits on the page may show some issues, as they grew more familiar with the past discussions I believe that Tinynanorobots has made valuable contributions to the page in good faith. Relm (talk) 03:21, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Barkeep49

@Ealdgyth I think this misinterprets the ArbCom decision. So Yakuse is a contentious topic and it has a 1RR restriction, in the same way as say PIA. As in PIA administrators can sanction behavior that violates the contentious topics procedures besides 1RR. Beyond that, editing against the RFC is a finding of fact from the case. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Tinynanorobots

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

As above, I'm failing to see what exactly is against the ArbCom case rulings - I don't see a 1RR violation. But also as above, I'm coming to the view that neither of these editors are adding anything helpful to the topic area and am leaning towards a topic ban for both. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:35, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Selfstudier

No evidence of misconduct was presented. Filer Allthemilescombined1 is informally warned against frivolous filings. -- Tamzin (they\|xe\|🤷) 02:36, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
} This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Selfstudier User who is submitting this request for enforcement Allthemilescombined1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 02:43, 13 December 2024 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Selfstudier (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5 Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 16 October 2024 Concern for WP:CIVIL violation when Selfstudier told me on my talk page: “enough now.This is a warning to cease and desist with the WP:ASPERSIONS and general unhelpfulness at the Zionism article.” 3 November 2024 Selfstudier dismissed my source ISBN 9798888459683, with “Bernard-Henri Lévy is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”. 3 November 2024 Selfstudier dismissed my source Adam Kirsch ISBN 978-1324105343 “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint". These dismissive comments are uncivil. 6 December 2024 Concerning for possible WP:GAME and WP:NOT ADVOCACY violations. Editors with one POV swarmed RM:6 December 2024 and closed it immediately for SNOW. Selfstudier immediately archived parts of this discussion, including my comments, while leaving the parts that supported their POV. Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics) Otherwise made edits indicating an awareness of the contentious topic. Additional comments by editor filing complaint On I/P topics, my edits on numerous occasions have been reverted almost immediately, by Selfstudier and their fellow editors who seem to be always hanging around I/P, and "owning" the topic area. They are creating a hostile editing environment and are violating NPOV. Concerns for possible WP:CIVIL and WP:TENDENTIOUS violations: Abo Yemen dismissed my reasoned arguments as “feelings”:8 December 2024 RolandR dismissed the author of "Saying No to Hate: Overcoming Antisemitism in America", ISBN 978-0827615236, as a “non-notable children’s writer”:3 November 2024 Zero told me “We should stick to history books and not cite emotional polemics”. 3 November 2024 Concerns for possible WP:GAME and WP:NOT ADVOCACY violations: Smallangryplanet accused me of WP:SYNTH and reverted my edits as irrelevant to the article on Holocaust inversion: 2 December 2024 whereas the article, prior to vandalism, resembled: Nableezy added that the only material that can be relevant to the aforementioned article is that which compares Israel to Nazi Germany, ignoring that such comparisons are antisemitic.2 December 2024 Levivich asked me “Why are these academic sources relevant to the discussion? How did you select them?” and added “I won’t bother reading the other two, I'll assume they also say the same thing that everybody else says.” (referring to Katz, Segev, and Goren)3 November 2024 Valeree wrote “If you'll read this talk page rather thoroughly so that you can bring yourself up to speed, you'll probably find fewer editors making sarcastic remarks about your suggestions.” 16 October 2024 Concerns for possible WP:ASPERSIONS violations: Sean.hoyland accused me of “advocacy and the expression of your personal views about the real world” 8 December 2024 and told me to see MOS:TERRORIST 7 August 2024 and accused me of violating WP:NOTFORUM and WP:NOTADVOCACY:8 December 2024 Sameboat wrote: "Please take extra attention to this recent ECU whose edits to I-P articles look rather deceptive to me".11 December 2024 Concerns for possible WP:TAG TEAM violations: Sameboat wrote on my talk page about Gaza genocide, though they were not involved in the earlier discussion, warning me about WP:NOTFORUM RM:6 December 2024.9 December 2024 Selected examples of my edits which were reverted within hours or minutes (this list is far from comprehensive): 11 December 2024 by Butterscotch Beluga claiming vandalism against a University of Michigan regent was irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests because it happened off campus; 24 November 2024 by Zero arguing that an egregious antisemitic incident 'fails WP:WEIGHT by a mile' 2 December 2024 by Abo Yemen removing my additions to Palestinian perspectives comparing Israel to Nazi Germany from a section on exactly that; along with 24 November 2024 and 2 December 2024 by Smallangryplanet; 1 December 2024 by AlsoWukai removing the disappearance of the ANC's $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide. In summary, I have experienced a pattern of consistent, and what appears to be organized, intimidation from a small group of editors. Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Discussion concerning Selfstudier Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Selfstudier Statement by Sean.hoyland I see I've been mentioned but not pinged. That's nice. I encourage anyone to look at the diffs and the context. Why are there editors in the topic area apparently ignoring WP:NOTFORUM and WP:NOTADVOCACY? It's a mystery. It is, and has always been, one of the root causes of instability in the topic area and wastes so much time. Assigning a cost to advocacy might reduce it. Either way, it needs to be actively suppressed by enforcement of the WP:NOT policy. It's a rule, not an aspiration. Sean.hoyland (talk) 15:23, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by Butterscotch Beluga I didn't say it was "irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests" as a whole. The edit I reverted was specifically at 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses, so as I said, the "Incident did not occur at a university campus so is outside the scope of this article". We have other articles like Israel–Hamas war protests & more specifically Israel–Hamas war protests in the United States that are more in scope of your proposed edit. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 20:52, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by Huldra I wish the filer would have wiki-linked names, then you would easily have seen that Bernard-Henri Lévy "is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”, or that Adam Kirsch “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint", Huldra (talk) 22:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by RolandR I too have been mentioned above, and complained about, but not been notified. If this is not a breach of Misplaced Pages regulations, then it ought to be. As for the substance, I see that I am accused of describing Norman H. Finkelstein as a "non-notable children’s writer". Norman H. Finkelstein was indeed a children's writer, as described in most reports and obituaries. At the time of the original edit and my revert, he was not considered sufficiently notable to merit a Misplaced Pages article; it was only a week later that the OP created an article, of which they have effectively been the only editor. So I stand by my characterisation, which is an accurate and objective description of the author. Further, I was concerned that a casual reader might be led to confuse this writer with the highly significant writer Norman Finkelstein; in fact, I made my edit after AlsoWukai had made this mistake and linked the cited author to the genuinely notable person. This whole report, and the sneaky complaints about me and other editors, is entirely worthless and should be thrown out. RolandR (talk) 22:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000 This edit by OP is illustrative. It is just a presentation of personal belief with weak or irrelevant sources. I don't see evidence of an ability to contribute usefully. Zero 00:31, 14 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by Sameboat It is clear that the filer has failed to understand my message, which was a warning about repeated violations of the NotForum policy. Instead, they have misinterpreted my actions, as well as those of others, as part of a coordinated "tag team." I raised my concerns on User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish after the filer's edit on the UNRWA article regarding its controversy, which failed to properly attribute the information to its source—the Israeli government. This filing is a complete waste of time, and serious sanctions should be imposed on the filer if similar issues occur again in the future. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk · contri.) 02:17, 14 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by AlsoWukai Contrary to the filer's complaint, I never made an edit "removing the disappearance of the ANC's $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide." I can only conclude that the filer misread the edit history. AlsoWukai (talk) 20:55, 14 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by Valereeee The diff allthemiles links to above is me responding to their post (in which they complained about a mildly sarcastic remark by another editor) where they said, "If respectful discussion is not possible, administrative involvement will be needed." I've been trying to keep up at that article talk, so I responded giving them my take on it. I tried to keep engaging, trying to help them understand the challenges for less experienced editors trying to work in the topic, offering advice on how they could get up to speed at that particular article, even offering to continue the discussion at their talk or mine. Valereee (talk) 14:29, 16 December 2024 (UTC) @Liz, editors working in PIA are brought here often and bring other editors here often for various reasons, and it doesn't always mean a given editor is problematic. For instance, the particular appearance you're referring to was brought here by a suspected sock of an LTA. I've seen admins working here who don't work in PIA wonder if the fact someone is brought here often or brings others here often means that editor is a problem, and I get why it feels like some issue with that editor has to be a factor, but in my experience it isn't usually. Some of the best editors working in that area are brought here for spurious reasons, and also need to bring other editors here for valid reasons. And some of the worst offenders there avoid AE. Valereee (talk) 11:45, 18 December 2024 (UTC) Result concerning Selfstudier This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. While I'm on record as saying that the topic area could us more civility from editors, I'm failing to see anything actionable against the editor filed against here. There's an edit from Oct that isn't great but not even begining to get into my "not civil" category. Then there's a perfectly civil statement about a source from 3 Nov (Hint - "Bernard-Henri Lévy is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism" is exactly the type of discussion that SHOULD be taking place in a contentious topic - it's focused on the source and does not mention any editors at all. The full comment "There is nothing to suggest Bernard-Henri Lévy is an expert on Zionism or colonialism. As I said, it is rather simple to find a source saying what you want it to say, whether that's a WP:BESTSOURCE is another matter." is still quite civil and focused on the source - nothing in this is worth of sanctioning....) The other statement from 3 Nov is also focused on the merits of the source. The fact that it isn't agreeing with your source analysis does not make it dismissive nor uncivil. Frankly, it's quite civil and again, what is expected in a contentious topic - source-based discussion. The comment from 6 Dec is also not uncivil. The rest of the filing is not about Selfstudier and is instead an excellent example of (1) throwing a whole bunch of diffs out hoping something will stick to someone and (2) an example of why filings in this area often turn into huge messess that can't reach resolution. This is supposed to be a filing about Selfstudier's behavior - instead most of it is about a grab-bag of other edits from many other editors, and frankly, seems to be motivated by the filer feeling that they aren't being taken seriously enough or something. I'm not going to read any of these diffs because they are not about the editor you filed against and my time is worth something and we should not reward abuse of this process by this sort of grab-bag-against-everyone-that-disagreed-with-an-editor filing. The only reason I'm not going for a boomerang against the filer is that they have only been editing for about six months and this is the first AE filing they've done. Let me suggest that they do not file another one like this - it's a waste of admin time. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:48, 13 December 2024 (UTC) I second Ealdgyth's reading. The presented diffs against Selfstudier are not actionable, and a lot of the complaint is not about Selfstudier at all. I don't believe the filing alone is grounds for sanction on the filer, but if someone wishes to present more evidence against them I suggest they do so in a separate report. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:27, 14 December 2024 (UTC) I stumbled into this by accident and I don't do these requests anymore, but I wonder if filer should edit outside the subject area until they have much more experience in WP:BRD and dispute resolution.YMMV. Best-- Deepfriedokra (talk) 08:03, 17 December 2024 (UTC) Another case on this editor was just closed a week ago, is there any relation between this filing and issues brought up in Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive345#Selfstudier? It seems like some editors are brought to AE on a weekly basis. Liz 08:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

No evidence of misconduct was presented. Filer Allthemilescombined1 is informally warned against frivolous filings. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 02:36, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

} This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Selfstudier

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Allthemilescombined1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 02:43, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Selfstudier (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

16 October 2024 Concern for WP:CIVIL violation when Selfstudier told me on my talk page: “enough now.This is a warning to cease and desist with the WP:ASPERSIONS and general unhelpfulness at the Zionism article.”
3 November 2024 Selfstudier dismissed my source ISBN 9798888459683, with “Bernard-Henri Lévy is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”.
3 November 2024 Selfstudier dismissed my source Adam Kirsch ISBN 978-1324105343 “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint". These dismissive comments are uncivil.
6 December 2024 Concerning for possible WP:GAME and WP:NOT ADVOCACY violations. Editors with one POV swarmed RM:6 December 2024 and closed it immediately for SNOW. Selfstudier immediately archived parts of this discussion, including my comments, while leaving the parts that supported their POV.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

Otherwise made edits indicating an awareness of the contentious topic.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

On I/P topics, my edits on numerous occasions have been reverted almost immediately, by Selfstudier and their fellow editors who seem to be always hanging around I/P, and "owning" the topic area. They are creating a hostile editing environment and are violating NPOV.

Concerns for possible WP:CIVIL and WP:TENDENTIOUS violations:

Abo Yemen dismissed my reasoned arguments as “feelings”:8 December 2024

RolandR dismissed the author of "Saying No to Hate: Overcoming Antisemitism in America", ISBN 978-0827615236, as a “non-notable children’s writer”:3 November 2024

Zero told me “We should stick to history books and not cite emotional polemics”. 3 November 2024

Concerns for possible WP:GAME and WP:NOT ADVOCACY violations:

Smallangryplanet accused me of WP:SYNTH and reverted my edits as irrelevant to the article on Holocaust inversion: 2 December 2024 whereas the article, prior to vandalism, resembled:

Nableezy added that the only material that can be relevant to the aforementioned article is that which compares Israel to Nazi Germany, ignoring that such comparisons are antisemitic.2 December 2024

Levivich asked me “Why are these academic sources relevant to the discussion? How did you select them?” and added “I won’t bother reading the other two, I'll assume they also say the same thing that everybody else says.” (referring to Katz, Segev, and Goren)3 November 2024

Valeree wrote “If you'll read this talk page rather thoroughly so that you can bring yourself up to speed, you'll probably find fewer editors making sarcastic remarks about your suggestions.” 16 October 2024

Concerns for possible WP:ASPERSIONS violations:

Sean.hoyland accused me of “advocacy and the expression of your personal views about the real world” 8 December 2024 and told me to see MOS:TERRORIST 7 August 2024 and accused me of violating WP:NOTFORUM and WP:NOTADVOCACY:8 December 2024

Sameboat wrote: "Please take extra attention to this recent ECU whose edits to I-P articles look rather deceptive to me".11 December 2024

Concerns for possible WP:TAG TEAM violations:

Sameboat wrote on my talk page about Gaza genocide, though they were not involved in the earlier discussion, warning me about WP:NOTFORUM RM:6 December 2024.9 December 2024

Selected examples of my edits which were reverted within hours or minutes (this list is far from comprehensive):

11 December 2024 by Butterscotch Beluga claiming vandalism against a University of Michigan regent was irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests because it happened off campus;
24 November 2024 by Zero arguing that an egregious antisemitic incident 'fails WP:WEIGHT by a mile'
2 December 2024 by Abo Yemen removing my additions to Palestinian perspectives comparing Israel to Nazi Germany from a section on exactly that; along with 24 November 2024 and 2 December 2024 by Smallangryplanet;
1 December 2024 by AlsoWukai removing the disappearance of the ANC's $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide.

In summary, I have experienced a pattern of consistent, and what appears to be organized, intimidation from a small group of editors.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Selfstudier

Statement by Selfstudier

Statement by Sean.hoyland

I see I've been mentioned but not pinged. That's nice. I encourage anyone to look at the diffs and the context. Why are there editors in the topic area apparently ignoring WP:NOTFORUM and WP:NOTADVOCACY? It's a mystery. It is, and has always been, one of the root causes of instability in the topic area and wastes so much time. Assigning a cost to advocacy might reduce it. Either way, it needs to be actively suppressed by enforcement of the WP:NOT policy. It's a rule, not an aspiration. Sean.hoyland (talk) 15:23, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Butterscotch Beluga

I didn't say it was "irrelevant to pro-Palestine protests" as a whole. The edit I reverted was specifically at 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses, so as I said, the "Incident did not occur at a university campus so is outside the scope of this article". We have other articles like Israel–Hamas war protests & more specifically Israel–Hamas war protests in the United States that are more in scope of your proposed edit. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 20:52, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Huldra

I wish the filer would have wiki-linked names, then you would easily have seen that Bernard-Henri Lévy "is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism”, or that Adam Kirsch “does not appear to be an expert in Zionism or Settler colonial studies but is apparently well known for a pro Israel viewpoint", Huldra (talk) 22:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by RolandR

I too have been mentioned above, and complained about, but not been notified. If this is not a breach of Misplaced Pages regulations, then it ought to be.

As for the substance, I see that I am accused of describing Norman H. Finkelstein as a "non-notable children’s writer". Norman H. Finkelstein was indeed a children's writer, as described in most reports and obituaries. At the time of the original edit and my revert, he was not considered sufficiently notable to merit a Misplaced Pages article; it was only a week later that the OP created an article, of which they have effectively been the only editor. So I stand by my characterisation, which is an accurate and objective description of the author.

Further, I was concerned that a casual reader might be led to confuse this writer with the highly significant writer Norman Finkelstein; in fact, I made my edit after AlsoWukai had made this mistake and linked the cited author to the genuinely notable person.

This whole report, and the sneaky complaints about me and other editors, is entirely worthless and should be thrown out. RolandR (talk) 22:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Zero0000

This edit by OP is illustrative. It is just a presentation of personal belief with weak or irrelevant sources. I don't see evidence of an ability to contribute usefully. Zero 00:31, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Sameboat

It is clear that the filer has failed to understand my message, which was a warning about repeated violations of the NotForum policy. Instead, they have misinterpreted my actions, as well as those of others, as part of a coordinated "tag team." I raised my concerns on User talk:ScottishFinnishRadish after the filer's edit on the UNRWA article regarding its controversy, which failed to properly attribute the information to its source—the Israeli government. This filing is a complete waste of time, and serious sanctions should be imposed on the filer if similar issues occur again in the future. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk · contri.) 02:17, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by AlsoWukai

Contrary to the filer's complaint, I never made an edit "removing the disappearance of the ANC's $31 million debt when South Africa accused Israel of genocide." I can only conclude that the filer misread the edit history. AlsoWukai (talk) 20:55, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Valereeee

The diff allthemiles links to above is me responding to their post (in which they complained about a mildly sarcastic remark by another editor) where they said, "If respectful discussion is not possible, administrative involvement will be needed." I've been trying to keep up at that article talk, so I responded giving them my take on it.

I tried to keep engaging, trying to help them understand the challenges for less experienced editors trying to work in the topic, offering advice on how they could get up to speed at that particular article, even offering to continue the discussion at their talk or mine. Valereee (talk) 14:29, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

@Liz, editors working in PIA are brought here often and bring other editors here often for various reasons, and it doesn't always mean a given editor is problematic. For instance, the particular appearance you're referring to was brought here by a suspected sock of an LTA. I've seen admins working here who don't work in PIA wonder if the fact someone is brought here often or brings others here often means that editor is a problem, and I get why it feels like some issue with that editor has to be a factor, but in my experience it isn't usually. Some of the best editors working in that area are brought here for spurious reasons, and also need to bring other editors here for valid reasons. And some of the worst offenders there avoid AE. Valereee (talk) 11:45, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Result concerning Selfstudier

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

While I'm on record as saying that the topic area could us more civility from editors, I'm failing to see anything actionable against the editor filed against here. There's an edit from Oct that isn't great but not even begining to get into my "not civil" category. Then there's a perfectly civil statement about a source from 3 Nov (Hint - "Bernard-Henri Lévy is not an expert on Zionism or colonialism" is exactly the type of discussion that SHOULD be taking place in a contentious topic - it's focused on the source and does not mention any editors at all. The full comment "There is nothing to suggest Bernard-Henri Lévy is an expert on Zionism or colonialism. As I said, it is rather simple to find a source saying what you want it to say, whether that's a WP:BESTSOURCE is another matter." is still quite civil and focused on the source - nothing in this is worth of sanctioning....) The other statement from 3 Nov is also focused on the merits of the source. The fact that it isn't agreeing with your source analysis does not make it dismissive nor uncivil. Frankly, it's quite civil and again, what is expected in a contentious topic - source-based discussion. The comment from 6 Dec is also not uncivil.
The rest of the filing is not about Selfstudier and is instead an excellent example of (1) throwing a whole bunch of diffs out hoping something will stick to someone and (2) an example of why filings in this area often turn into huge messess that can't reach resolution. This is supposed to be a filing about Selfstudier's behavior - instead most of it is about a grab-bag of other edits from many other editors, and frankly, seems to be motivated by the filer feeling that they aren't being taken seriously enough or something. I'm not going to read any of these diffs because they are not about the editor you filed against and my time is worth something and we should not reward abuse of this process by this sort of grab-bag-against-everyone-that-disagreed-with-an-editor filing.
The only reason I'm not going for a boomerang against the filer is that they have only been editing for about six months and this is the first AE filing they've done. Let me suggest that they do not file another one like this - it's a waste of admin time. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:48, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
I second Ealdgyth's reading. The presented diffs against Selfstudier are not actionable, and a lot of the complaint is not about Selfstudier at all. I don't believe the filing alone is grounds for sanction on the filer, but if someone wishes to present more evidence against them I suggest they do so in a separate report. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:27, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
I stumbled into this by accident and I don't do these requests anymore, but I wonder if filer should edit outside the subject area until they have much more experience in WP:BRD and dispute resolution.YMMV. Best-- Deepfriedokra (talk) 08:03, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Another case on this editor was just closed a week ago, is there any relation between this filing and issues brought up in Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive345#Selfstudier? It seems like some editors are brought to AE on a weekly basis. Liz 08:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Rasteem

Request concerning Rasteem

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Rasteem (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBIPA

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

23:21 12 December 2024 - removed wikilink of an Indian railway station thus violating his topic ban from India and Pakistan.

This violation comes after he was already warned for his first violation of the topic ban.

Upon a closer look into his recent contribution, I found that he is simply WP:GAMING the system by creating articles like Arjan Lake which is overall only 5,400 bytes but he made nearly 50 edits here. This is clearly being done by Rasteem for passing the 500 edits mark to get his topic ban overturned.

I recommend increasing the topic ban to indefinite duration. Nxcrypto Message 03:06, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any: "topic banned from the subject of India and Pakistan, broadly construed, until both six months have elapsed and they have made 500 edits after being notified of this sanction."

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I agree that there are genuine CIR issues with Rasteem, for example while this ARE report is in progress they created Javan Lake, which has promotional statements like: "The lake's stunning caluts, majestic desert topographies, and serene lakes produce a shifting destination. Its unique charm attracts a wide range of guests, from adventure contenders to nature suckers and beyond". Nxcrypto Message 03:26, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Rasteem

Statement by Rasteem

This approach seems to be a coordinated attack to abandon me from Misplaced Pages indefinitely. Indeed, after my ban for 6 months. I was banned on 6 December, and in just 7 days, this report is literally an attempt to make me leave Misplaced Pages.

1. I rolled back my own edit; it was last time made unintentionally. I was about to revert it, but my internet connection was lost, so when I logged in again, I regressed it.

The internet is constantly slow and sometimes goes down. I live in a hilly location and I had formerly mentioned it.

My edits on Arjan Lake isn't any WP:GAMING factual number of edits I made; it is 45, not 50. Indeed, I made similar edits before in September and December months on the same articles within a single day or 2-3 days.

2. List of villages in Khoda Afarin on this article, I've added 5680 bytes & made 43 edits.

3. List of villages in Tabriz on this article I've added 4000 bytes & made 49 edits.

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Rasteem

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

While I don't see a change in editing pattern that indicates gaming, the edits to Arjan Lake indicate issues with competence, as the article is weirdly promotional and contains phrases such as "beast species", "emotional 263 proved species". —Femke 🐦 (talk) 20:57, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Adding to Femke's point, magnific 70- cadence-high waterfalls in this area is not prose that inspires confidence in the editor's competence to edit the English Misplaced Pages. So, we have violations of a topic ban and questions about the editor's linguistic competence and performance. Perhaps an indefinite block appealable in six months with a recommendation to build English competency by editing the Simple English Misplaced Pages, and to build general Misplaced Pages skills by editing in the version of Misplaced Pages in the language they speak best during that minimum six month period. As for Arjan Lake, although the prose is poor, the references in the article make it clear to me that the topic is notable, so the editor deserves some credit for starting this article that did not exist for two decades plus. Cullen328 (talk) 08:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
Brief comment to avoid the archive bot. Seraphimblade 17:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

שלומית ליר

שלומית ליר is reminded to double-check edits before publishing, and to try to reply more promptly when asked about potential mistakes. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 20:21, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning שלומית ליר User who is submitting this request for enforcement Nableezy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested שלומית ליר (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4#ARBPIA General Sanctions Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 10:23, 13 December 2024 claiming a source supports something it never mentions Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any N/A If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics) Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 5 April 2023 (see the system log linked to above). Additional comments by editor filing complaint The user wrote that NATO had supported accusations against Hamas citing a chapter titled Hamas and Human Rights in a book titled Hamas Rule in Gaza: Human Rights under Constraint. They cited the entire chapter, pages 56–126. The source itself is a work of scholarship, and nobody would challenge it as a reliable source. Luckily, the full text of the book is available via the Misplaced Pages Library, and anybody with access to that can verify for themselves that the word "shield" appears nowhere in the book. Not human shield, or even NATO (nato appears in searches with the results being "explanatory, twice and coordinator once, or Atlantic, or N.A.T.O. It is simply made up that this source supports that material. The user later, after being challenged but declining to answer what in the source supports it (see here), added another source that supposedly supports the material, this paper by NATO StratCom COE, however they themselves say they are not part of the NATO Command Structure, nor subordinate to any other NATO entity. As such the Centre does not therefore speak for NATO, though that misunderstanding is certainly forgivable. However, completely making up that a source supports something, with a citation to 70 pages of a book, is less so. That is to me a purposeful attempt at obfuscating that the source offered does not support the material added, and the lack of any attempt of explaining such an edit on the talk page led me to file a report here. nableezy - 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC) It’s a matter for AE because violations in a CT topic are AE matters and I’ve previously been told to come here instead of AN(I). What sanction? I don’t think there’s any action more serious than making up something about a source, so I’d say it would be anywhere from a logged, and first only, warning to a topic ban. The second sourcing issue isn’t a huge deal, but the first one, the diff im reporting, is IMO such a severe violation that it merits a sanction. I don’t think this is simply misrepresentation, it is complete fabrication. They cited 70 pages of a book without a quote, to a link that doesn’t have the text. Without the Misplaced Pages Library this would have been much more difficult to check. This is going back a while, but this was a similar situation reported here. If there had been some explanation given on the talk page I wouldn’t have reported this here, but the wholesale fabrication of claiming that a source that never mentions the topic supports some material was ignored there. nableezy - 14:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC) I want to be clear, I am not claiming any sanctionable behavior in the second diff. I only brought it up to say that rather than address the fabrication in the first one they simply attempted to add some other source. They have as yet not addressed the diff I am reporting here. I am only claiming an issue in that diff citing the book chapter for a book that never even says the word shield in it. nableezy - 19:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC) According to WikiBlame, the insertion of that source was here, the diff I've reported. As far as I can tell no other user has introduced that source on that page. The revision that the user below says has the sources they took from in the article's edit history is after the insertion of that source by that user. If there is some prior revision showing that source being used for that statement then I'd withdraw my complaint, but that does not appear to be the case. nableezy - 19:58, 16 December 2024 (UTC) If that is indeed reproducible then I suggest this be closed with a reminder, not a logged warning, to check the output of any tool more thoroughly. And answer questions about your edits when raised on the talk page instead of ignoring them. nableezy - 19:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC) Just noting that I verified the bug in the VE sandbox as well. Had I been told of that sequence when I asked about the edit I obviously would not have opened this request. nableezy - 18:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Notified Discussion concerning שלומית ליר Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by שלומית ליר The article "Use of human shields by Hamas" is intended to address a well-documented phenomenon: Hamas’s deliberate use of civilian infrastructure — homes, hospitals, and mosques — as shields for its military operations. This includes hiding weapons, constructing military tunnels beneath civilian populations, and knowingly placing innocent lives in harm’s way. Yet, I found the article falls far short of adequately describing this phenomenon. It presents vague and generalized accusations while failing to reference the numerous credible organizations that have extensively documented these practices. During my review, I discovered that essential sources were available in the article's edit history (https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas&oldid=1262868174). I retrieved and restored these sources without reverting prior edits, including a source referenced by user Nableezy. When it was brought to my attention that an error had occurred, I acknowledged it, thanked the user, and corrected it by incorporating two reliable references. I had hoped this would resolve the issue, but apparently, it did not. Now, I find myself the subject of an arbitration enforcement hearing that feels not only unwarranted but intended to intimidate me from contributing further to this article. I would also like to point out that the responses to my edits raise serious concerns. For instance, an image depicting missiles hidden in a family home — an image used in other Wikipedias to illustrate this topic — was removed. This raises the question: why obscure such critical evidence? Similarly, a scholarly source with credible information that emphasizes the severity of this issue was reverted without clear justification. This article should serve as a thorough account of Hamas's war crimes, which have resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians. Instead, it seems that some editors are working to dilute its substance, resisting efforts to include vital context and documentation at the start of the article. This undermines the article’s purpose and risks distorting the public’s understanding of an issue of profound international importance.שלומית ליר (talk) 19:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC) I want to add that what Nableezy’s accusation is a complete misrepresentation (and, at times, distortion) of the sequence of events. A reference was mistakenly carried over from a previous editor, and once it was pointed out that it lacked the necessary supporting quotes, I removed it myself. I find it difficult to accept that failing to respond immediately to an inquiry regarding a removed source (and good faith attempt to find a sufficient replacement) equates to misrepresentation. I strongly believe that using this forum to imply such a thing, based on the actual facts here, is a misuse of the process. To the arbitrators: I want to ensure the sequence of events is clear, so I request permission to strike through extraneous elements in my initial response, if necessary, to include more technical evidence while staying within the 500-word limit שלומית ליר (talk) 21:06, 16 December 2024 (UTC) (moved from V93's comment) It’s simple. If you copy the reference from the previous version: 'Hamas' use of human shields in Gaza' (PDF), NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, and add it using the automatic reference tool, it changes it to: Mukhimer, Tariq (2013), Hamas and Human Rights, Hamas Rule in Gaza, New York: Palgrave Macmillan US, pp. 56–126, ISBN 978-1-349-45658-1, retrieved 2024-12-17. This is an innocent error caused by the Wiki program itself. You can try it and see for yourself. Where it led and what Nableezy allowed himself to do is a story by itself that demands investigation שלומית ליר (talk) 12:21, 17 December 2024 (UTC) While I see your point, the issue here was indeed caused by a bug in the 'Add a Cite' tool on automatic mode. I suggest you take the time to verify this before jumping to far-reaching conclusions. . שלומית ליר (talk) 23:48, 17 December 2024 (UTC) Thanks for checking it out and confirming; I appreciate it. שלומית ליר (talk) 23:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC) Moved comment to own section. Please comment only in this section. Seraphimblade 23:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC) True, and I would most definitely will check next time. שלומית ליר (talk) 23:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by Supreme Deliciousness Valereee created the article Politics of food in the Arab–Israeli conflict. She is therefor involved in the topic area and shouldn't be editing in the uninvolved admin section.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 08:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning שלומית ליר This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. Please forgive my ignorance, but what specific sanction are you requesting and what exactly makes this possible interconnected source misrepresentation a matter that needs AE? Is the information removed (I'm assuming it is). Is this a long-term pattern? The filing even admits that the second instance is understandable given the name of the group putting out the source. I would be more concerned if this was a continuing problem - are there other recent instances of this editor possibly misrepresenting a source? And I'm still not sure that source misrepresntation is something that falls under AE's remit, rather than just something that could be dealt with at ANI or AN? Not saying no, but I'm not sure we need the big gun of AE for this just yet. Ealdgyth (talk) 13:02, 16 December 2024 (UTC) I'm not sure I'm ready to (1) take a 2011 discussion as binding in 2024 and (2) decide unilaterally that "violations in a CT topic are AE matters". Sorry, but I'm not that much of a cowboy (despite the cowboy hat in my closet and the western-trained horses in my paddock). I'm not trying to be difficult and not at all trying to minimize the severity of source misrepresentation - but I do not see where this topic area has sanctions authorized for that specific behavior - civility and aspersions yeah, but I'd like to see what other admins think. I also would like to see if שלומית ליר has any statement to make (while noting that not replying here is a very bad look for them). Ealdgyth (talk) 14:40, 16 December 2024 (UTC) I would agree with Nableezy's view regarding jurisdiction, and was under the impression that this was already standard practice. AE is intended to address disruptive editing in designated contentious topics--source misrepresentation is definitely disruptive editing even if it was not specifically a matter of issue for the parties to ARBPIA4. _signed,Rosguill 14:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC) I'm perfectly happy to be shown that it's a matter for AE, I've just not seen it dealt with that I can remember (bearing in mind that I'm not as young as some other folks and can forget things) and I don't see it mentioned in the CT topics bits or in the case pages referred to. I prefer to err on the side of caution in these matters. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:50, 16 December 2024 (UTC) To my reading it would be directly justified by Misplaced Pages:Contentious_topics#Arbitration_enforcement point 2: ...requests for an individual enforcement action against aware editors who engage in misconduct in a contentious topic _signed,Rosguill 14:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC) Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive331#Crampcomes is a report where I ~recently sanctioned for source misrepresentation. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:00, 16 December 2024 (UTC) I'm sorry - but I find this explanation ... not quite believable. Nableezy is saying that the Mukhimer source was introduced with this diff by you. You claim that "If you copy the reference from the previous version: 'Hamas' use of human shields in Gaza' (PDF), NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, and add it using the automatic reference tool, it changes it to: Mukhimer, Tariq (2013), Hamas and Human Rights, Hamas Rule in Gaza, New York: Palgrave Macmillan US, pp. 56–126, ISBN 978-1-349-45658-1, retrieved 2024-12-17." What automatic reference tool? And even if the tool is malfunctioning - you are responsible for your edits - especially in such a fraught topic area. Looking at the diff in question its pretty clear that the first citation is listing the author as "Mukhimer" which should have clued you in (if indeed the automatic tool is a problem) that there was an issue. And when Nableezy raised this issue on the talk page - you didn't actually try this explanation or even any explanation, you just replied "I thought you noticed and understood that I had updated the references." which is deeply concerning that you did not consider the fact that you inserted references that did not support the material (and yes, I did do a rapid read/skim of the Mukhimer work's chapter that was in that citation - the chapter is mostly concerned with Hamas' internal governance and human rights record. I saw nothing discussing human shields or even the war with Israel in that chapter (the chapter does discuss Hamas' actions against Gazans that Hamas accuses of spying/etc for Israel, but nothing about actual military conflict)). The lack of collaborative explanation and the seeming unconcern about the issues brought up are making me lean towards a topic ban, frankly. I apologize that it took me a while to circle back to this - yesterday was a day of small things breaking and needing to be taken care of and I didn't have the time in the afternoon that I expected to revisit this. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:27, 17 December 2024 (UTC) And add yet one more reason to not use VE.... if its some weird bug, then yes, a warning is sufficient. But, really, you need to double check when you use tools to make sure that there are not bugs (and yes, Visual Editor is buggy...) Ealdgyth (talk) 20:16, 17 December 2024 (UTC) I've gone on record saying that I consider source misrepresentation to be some of the most disruptive conduct in a contentious topic - it is insidious in a way that calling another editor names is not. That does not mean I support sanctions by default, but I do think we need to take such a report seriously. A lot depends on the specific circumstances - the second instance above seems like a very easy mistake to make - but I would like to hear from שלומית ליר. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:41, 16 December 2024 (UTC) שלומית ליר, I would like to see a specific response to Nableezy's evidence about where you got your source, so please go ahead and strike or collapse parts of your original statement (please don't remove anything entirely). NB; we are (mostly) administrators enforcing arbitration decisions here, not arbitrators ourselves. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC) I agree with Vanamonde that source misrepresentation is disruptive on its face, and the first time I see it, AGF is pretty much gone. Valereee (talk) 19:55, 16 December 2024 (UTC) I agree that if this was a bug -- which is really concerning -- then a logged warning is overkill, especially given this editor's inexperience. Valereee (talk) 15:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC) I'm not sure what "automatic reference tool" is being referred to here, but I'm generally not impressed with "It was the tool's fault." Editors are responsible for the edits they make, and while of course there's no problem with using tools to help, the editor, not the tool, is still responsible for ensuring that the final result accurately represents the sources which are cited. Overall, I'd tend toward Ealdgyth's line of thinking; source misrepresentation is an extremely serious form of misconduct and must under no circumstances be tolerated. Seraphimblade 15:39, 17 December 2024 (UTC) שלומית ליר, it has now been necessary on several occasions to move your comments to the proper section from other editors' sections or this one. Do not comment outside your own section again. Seraphimblade 09:13, 18 December 2024 (UTC) Above stuff out of the way, if this actually is reproducible, it may be wise to check Phabricator to see if such an issue has been reported—chances are pretty good this isn't the only time that bug will bite. I'm good with a logged warning to more carefully vet the output of automated editing tools before making the edit, given that. Seraphimblade 09:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC) Isn't a logged warning a bit too much for not catching a bug? I'd rather go for a reminder as Nableezy suggests. Will check Phab or open a new phab ticket when I've got a bit more time. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 11:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC) I still don't love the whole thing, but it seems that most people want to just do an informal reminder, so I've got no strong objection (of course, as long as the bug actually does get reported, if it's not been already.) Seraphimblade 17:49, 18 December 2024 (UTC) To my surprise, it's true that copying that text into VE's automatic citation formatter gives this output. Most absurd bug I've ever seen. Of course it's an editor's responsibility to check if the citation is correct, but this is not something you might think to check for, especially as a newer editor. While intentionally misrepresenting a source is highly disruptive, I don't think this weird error is sanctionable. I would like to give User:שלומית ליר one piece of advice for editing a contentious topic like this: always use edit summaries (you can change your settings so that you're warned if you forget them). That can help reduce misunderstandings. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 19:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC) I agree with Femke about how to resolve this request, including the advice to check things and to use edit summaries. I am also extremely concerned about the bug-created citation issue and wonder where is the best place to request that the error be investigated and fixed. Newyorkbrad (talk) 14:58, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

שלומית ליר is reminded to double-check edits before publishing, and to try to reply more promptly when asked about potential mistakes. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 20:21, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning שלומית ליר

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Nableezy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: שלומית ליר (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4#ARBPIA General Sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

10:23, 13 December 2024 claiming a source supports something it never mentions

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

N/A

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 5 April 2023 (see the system log linked to above).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The user wrote that NATO had supported accusations against Hamas citing a chapter titled Hamas and Human Rights in a book titled Hamas Rule in Gaza: Human Rights under Constraint. They cited the entire chapter, pages 56–126. The source itself is a work of scholarship, and nobody would challenge it as a reliable source. Luckily, the full text of the book is available via the Misplaced Pages Library, and anybody with access to that can verify for themselves that the word "shield" appears nowhere in the book. Not human shield, or even NATO (nato appears in searches with the results being "explanatory, twice and coordinator once, or Atlantic, or N.A.T.O. It is simply made up that this source supports that material. The user later, after being challenged but declining to answer what in the source supports it (see here), added another source that supposedly supports the material, this paper by NATO StratCom COE, however they themselves say they are not part of the NATO Command Structure, nor subordinate to any other NATO entity. As such the Centre does not therefore speak for NATO, though that misunderstanding is certainly forgivable. However, completely making up that a source supports something, with a citation to 70 pages of a book, is less so. That is to me a purposeful attempt at obfuscating that the source offered does not support the material added, and the lack of any attempt of explaining such an edit on the talk page led me to file a report here. nableezy - 23:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

It’s a matter for AE because violations in a CT topic are AE matters and I’ve previously been told to come here instead of AN(I). What sanction? I don’t think there’s any action more serious than making up something about a source, so I’d say it would be anywhere from a logged, and first only, warning to a topic ban. The second sourcing issue isn’t a huge deal, but the first one, the diff im reporting, is IMO such a severe violation that it merits a sanction. I don’t think this is simply misrepresentation, it is complete fabrication. They cited 70 pages of a book without a quote, to a link that doesn’t have the text. Without the Misplaced Pages Library this would have been much more difficult to check. This is going back a while, but this was a similar situation reported here. If there had been some explanation given on the talk page I wouldn’t have reported this here, but the wholesale fabrication of claiming that a source that never mentions the topic supports some material was ignored there. nableezy - 14:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

I want to be clear, I am not claiming any sanctionable behavior in the second diff. I only brought it up to say that rather than address the fabrication in the first one they simply attempted to add some other source. They have as yet not addressed the diff I am reporting here. I am only claiming an issue in that diff citing the book chapter for a book that never even says the word shield in it. nableezy - 19:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

According to WikiBlame, the insertion of that source was here, the diff I've reported. As far as I can tell no other user has introduced that source on that page. The revision that the user below says has the sources they took from in the article's edit history is after the insertion of that source by that user. If there is some prior revision showing that source being used for that statement then I'd withdraw my complaint, but that does not appear to be the case. nableezy - 19:58, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

If that is indeed reproducible then I suggest this be closed with a reminder, not a logged warning, to check the output of any tool more thoroughly. And answer questions about your edits when raised on the talk page instead of ignoring them. nableezy - 19:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Just noting that I verified the bug in the VE sandbox as well. Had I been told of that sequence when I asked about the edit I obviously would not have opened this request. nableezy - 18:25, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified

Discussion concerning שלומית ליר

Statement by שלומית ליר

The article "Use of human shields by Hamas" is intended to address a well-documented phenomenon: Hamas’s deliberate use of civilian infrastructure — homes, hospitals, and mosques — as shields for its military operations. This includes hiding weapons, constructing military tunnels beneath civilian populations, and knowingly placing innocent lives in harm’s way. Yet, I found the article falls far short of adequately describing this phenomenon. It presents vague and generalized accusations while failing to reference the numerous credible organizations that have extensively documented these practices.

During my review, I discovered that essential sources were available in the article's edit history (https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas&oldid=1262868174). I retrieved and restored these sources without reverting prior edits, including a source referenced by user Nableezy. When it was brought to my attention that an error had occurred, I acknowledged it, thanked the user, and corrected it by incorporating two reliable references. I had hoped this would resolve the issue, but apparently, it did not.

Now, I find myself the subject of an arbitration enforcement hearing that feels not only unwarranted but intended to intimidate me from contributing further to this article.

I would also like to point out that the responses to my edits raise serious concerns. For instance, an image depicting missiles hidden in a family home — an image used in other Wikipedias to illustrate this topic — was removed. This raises the question: why obscure such critical evidence? Similarly, a scholarly source with credible information that emphasizes the severity of this issue was reverted without clear justification.

This article should serve as a thorough account of Hamas's war crimes, which have resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians. Instead, it seems that some editors are working to dilute its substance, resisting efforts to include vital context and documentation at the start of the article. This undermines the article’s purpose and risks distorting the public’s understanding of an issue of profound international importance.שלומית ליר (talk) 19:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

I want to add that what Nableezy’s accusation is a complete misrepresentation (and, at times, distortion) of the sequence of events. A reference was mistakenly carried over from a previous editor, and once it was pointed out that it lacked the necessary supporting quotes, I removed it myself.

I find it difficult to accept that failing to respond immediately to an inquiry regarding a removed source (and good faith attempt to find a sufficient replacement) equates to misrepresentation. I strongly believe that using this forum to imply such a thing, based on the actual facts here, is a misuse of the process.

To the arbitrators: I want to ensure the sequence of events is clear, so I request permission to strike through extraneous elements in my initial response, if necessary, to include more technical evidence while staying within the 500-word limit שלומית ליר (talk) 21:06, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

(moved from V93's comment) It’s simple. If you copy the reference from the previous version: 'Hamas' use of human shields in Gaza' (PDF), NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, and add it using the automatic reference tool, it changes it to: Mukhimer, Tariq (2013), Hamas and Human Rights, Hamas Rule in Gaza, New York: Palgrave Macmillan US, pp. 56–126, ISBN 978-1-349-45658-1, retrieved 2024-12-17.

This is an innocent error caused by the Wiki program itself. You can try it and see for yourself.

Where it led and what Nableezy allowed himself to do is a story by itself that demands investigation שלומית ליר (talk) 12:21, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

While I see your point, the issue here was indeed caused by a bug in the 'Add a Cite' tool on automatic mode.

I suggest you take the time to verify this before jumping to far-reaching conclusions.

. שלומית ליר (talk) 23:48, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for checking it out and confirming; I appreciate it. שלומית ליר (talk) 23:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC) Moved comment to own section. Please comment only in this section. Seraphimblade 23:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

True, and I would most definitely will check next time. שלומית ליר (talk) 23:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Supreme Deliciousness

Valereee created the article Politics of food in the Arab–Israeli conflict. She is therefor involved in the topic area and shouldn't be editing in the uninvolved admin section.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 08:41, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning שלומית ליר

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Please forgive my ignorance, but what specific sanction are you requesting and what exactly makes this possible interconnected source misrepresentation a matter that needs AE? Is the information removed (I'm assuming it is). Is this a long-term pattern? The filing even admits that the second instance is understandable given the name of the group putting out the source. I would be more concerned if this was a continuing problem - are there other recent instances of this editor possibly misrepresenting a source? And I'm still not sure that source misrepresntation is something that falls under AE's remit, rather than just something that could be dealt with at ANI or AN? Not saying no, but I'm not sure we need the big gun of AE for this just yet. Ealdgyth (talk) 13:02, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure I'm ready to (1) take a 2011 discussion as binding in 2024 and (2) decide unilaterally that "violations in a CT topic are AE matters". Sorry, but I'm not that much of a cowboy (despite the cowboy hat in my closet and the western-trained horses in my paddock). I'm not trying to be difficult and not at all trying to minimize the severity of source misrepresentation - but I do not see where this topic area has sanctions authorized for that specific behavior - civility and aspersions yeah, but I'd like to see what other admins think. I also would like to see if שלומית ליר has any statement to make (while noting that not replying here is a very bad look for them). Ealdgyth (talk) 14:40, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
  I would agree with Nableezy's view regarding jurisdiction, and was under the impression that this was already standard practice. AE is intended to address disruptive editing in designated contentious topics--source misrepresentation is definitely disruptive editing even if it was not specifically a matter of issue for the parties to ARBPIA4. _signed,Rosguill 14:45, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
  - I'm perfectly happy to be shown that it's a matter for AE, I've just not seen it dealt with that I can remember (bearing in mind that I'm not as young as some other folks and can forget things) and I don't see it mentioned in the CT topics bits or in the case pages referred to. I prefer to err on the side of caution in these matters. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:50, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
    To my reading it would be directly justified by Misplaced Pages:Contentious_topics#Arbitration_enforcement point 2: ...requests for an individual enforcement action against aware editors who engage in misconduct in a contentious topic _signed,Rosguill 14:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
    
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive331#Crampcomes is a report where I ~recently sanctioned for source misrepresentation. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:00, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
I'm sorry - but I find this explanation ... not quite believable. Nableezy is saying that the Mukhimer source was introduced with this diff by you. You claim that "If you copy the reference from the previous version: 'Hamas' use of human shields in Gaza' (PDF), NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, and add it using the automatic reference tool, it changes it to: Mukhimer, Tariq (2013), Hamas and Human Rights, Hamas Rule in Gaza, New York: Palgrave Macmillan US, pp. 56–126, ISBN 978-1-349-45658-1, retrieved 2024-12-17." What automatic reference tool? And even if the tool is malfunctioning - you are responsible for your edits - especially in such a fraught topic area. Looking at the diff in question its pretty clear that the first citation is listing the author as "Mukhimer" which should have clued you in (if indeed the automatic tool is a problem) that there was an issue. And when Nableezy raised this issue on the talk page - you didn't actually try this explanation or even any explanation, you just replied "I thought you noticed and understood that I had updated the references." which is deeply concerning that you did not consider the fact that you inserted references that did not support the material (and yes, I did do a rapid read/skim of the Mukhimer work's chapter that was in that citation - the chapter is mostly concerned with Hamas' internal governance and human rights record. I saw nothing discussing human shields or even the war with Israel in that chapter (the chapter does discuss Hamas' actions against Gazans that Hamas accuses of spying/etc for Israel, but nothing about actual military conflict)). The lack of collaborative explanation and the seeming unconcern about the issues brought up are making me lean towards a topic ban, frankly.

I apologize that it took me a while to circle back to this - yesterday was a day of small things breaking and needing to be taken care of and I didn't have the time in the afternoon that I expected to revisit this. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:27, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
And add yet one more reason to not use VE.... if its some weird bug, then yes, a warning is sufficient. But, really, you need to double check when you use tools to make sure that there are not bugs (and yes, Visual Editor is buggy...) Ealdgyth (talk) 20:16, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
I've gone on record saying that I consider source misrepresentation to be some of the most disruptive conduct in a contentious topic - it is insidious in a way that calling another editor names is not. That does not mean I support sanctions by default, but I do think we need to take such a report seriously. A lot depends on the specific circumstances - the second instance above seems like a very easy mistake to make - but I would like to hear from שלומית ליר. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:41, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
שלומית ליר, I would like to see a specific response to Nableezy's evidence about where you got your source, so please go ahead and strike or collapse parts of your original statement (please don't remove anything entirely). NB; we are (mostly) administrators enforcing arbitration decisions here, not arbitrators ourselves. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
I agree with Vanamonde that source misrepresentation is disruptive on its face, and the first time I see it, AGF is pretty much gone. Valereee (talk) 19:55, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
I agree that if this was a bug -- which is really concerning -- then a logged warning is overkill, especially given this editor's inexperience. Valereee (talk) 15:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
I'm not sure what "automatic reference tool" is being referred to here, but I'm generally not impressed with "It was the tool's fault." Editors are responsible for the edits they make, and while of course there's no problem with using tools to help, the editor, not the tool, is still responsible for ensuring that the final result accurately represents the sources which are cited. Overall, I'd tend toward Ealdgyth's line of thinking; source misrepresentation is an extremely serious form of misconduct and must under no circumstances be tolerated. Seraphimblade 15:39, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
שלומית ליר, it has now been necessary on several occasions to move your comments to the proper section from other editors' sections or this one. Do not comment outside your own section again. Seraphimblade 09:13, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Above stuff out of the way, if this actually is reproducible, it may be wise to check Phabricator to see if such an issue has been reported—chances are pretty good this isn't the only time that bug will bite. I'm good with a logged warning to more carefully vet the output of automated editing tools before making the edit, given that. Seraphimblade 09:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Isn't a logged warning a bit too much for not catching a bug? I'd rather go for a reminder as Nableezy suggests. Will check Phab or open a new phab ticket when I've got a bit more time. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 11:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
I still don't love the whole thing, but it seems that most people want to just do an informal reminder, so I've got no strong objection (of course, as long as the bug actually does get reported, if it's not been already.) Seraphimblade 17:49, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
To my surprise, it's true that copying that text into VE's automatic citation formatter gives this output. Most absurd bug I've ever seen. Of course it's an editor's responsibility to check if the citation is correct, but this is not something you might think to check for, especially as a newer editor. While intentionally misrepresenting a source is highly disruptive, I don't think this weird error is sanctionable. I would like to give User:שלומית ליר one piece of advice for editing a contentious topic like this: always use edit summaries (you can change your settings so that you're warned if you forget them). That can help reduce misunderstandings. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 19:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
I agree with Femke about how to resolve this request, including the advice to check things and to use edit summaries. I am also extremely concerned about the bug-created citation issue and wonder where is the best place to request that the error be investigated and fixed. Newyorkbrad (talk) 14:58, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

KronosAlight

Request concerning KronosAlight

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Butterscotch Beluga (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:16, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: KronosAlight (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4#ARBPIA General Sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

14 December 2024

Adds "depiste being an ex-Muslim" to dismiss accusations of Islamophobia MOS:EDITORIAL.
Adds MOS:SCAREQUOTES around ‘promoted Islamophobia’ & ‘Islamophobia’ while removing the supporting context.
Changed "interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence" to "claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred" MOS:CLAIM & MOS:EDITORIAL

14 December 2024 - MOS:TERRORIST

Changes "Israeli settlers" to "Israeli soldiers" despite the source only explicitly stating them "throwing stones on settlers."

Unnecessarily specific additions that may constitute WP:POVPUSH such as adding "against civilians" & changing "prevent the assassinations of many Israelis" to "prevent the assassinations of many Israeli civilians and soldiers"

14 December 2024 - MOS:TERRORIST

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

24 June 2024 Warned to abide by the one-revert rule when making edits within the scope of the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area.
22 October 2024 Blocked from editing for 1 week for violating consensus required on the page Zionism

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on 22 October 2024 by ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 24 January 2024.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

All edits were made at Mosab Hassan Yousef. After I partially reverted their edits with an explanation, I brought the issue to their attention on the talk page, asking for their rationale. They replied that they were "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" & asked if I "perhaps have a deeper bias that’s influencing decisions in this respect?"

They then undid my partial revert

Ealdgyth - While I can't find any comments where they were explicitly "warned for casting aspersions", they were asked back in June to WP:AGF in the topic area.

Also, apologies for my "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" section, this is the first time I've filed a request here & I thought it'd be best to explain the preamble to my revert, but I understand now that I misunderstood the purpose of that section & will remember such for the future. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 15:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

@Vanamonde93 I was able to find a copy of the opinion article being cited 'They Need to Be Liberated From Their God'. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 20:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning KronosAlight

Statement by KronosAlight

This is a complete waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.

1. That Yousef was born and raised a Muslim is important and neutral context for readers to be aware of when the article refers to claims of ‘Islamophobia’.

2. The scarequotes indicate that the claim comes from the sources provided, rather than being an objective ‘fact’ determined by a few Misplaced Pages Editors with an axe to grind.

3. This was already addressed on the Talk page and I updated the sentence to say settlers/soldiers with a further label that it needed further clarification because the source does not in fact unambiguously say what Butterscotch Beluga claims.

A few lines above what Butterscotch Beluga quotes is the following lines: “AMANPOUR: How did you take part in that? Were you one of the small children who threw rocks at Israeli soldiers?

YOUSEF: The model for every Palestinian child is a mujahid (ph) or a fidahi (ph) or a fighter. So, of course, I wanted to be one at that point of my life. It wasn't -- it's not my only dream. It's every child's dream in that territory.”

The updated Wiki page noted both settlers/soldiers and included a note that this requires further clarification, perhaps based on other sources, because it isn’t clear (contra Butterscotch Beluga) whether he is referring to soldiers or settlers.

4. It is not controversial to accurately describe Hamas as a terrorist organisation. It is simply a fact. To suggest otherwise is POV-pushing.

5. This is not POVPUSH; ‘assassinations’ against civilians during peacetime are usually called ‘murders’.

I in fact didn’t even remove the word ‘assassinations’, I merely broadened the description from ‘Israelis’ to ‘Israeli civilians and soldiers’ (as Butterscotch accepted) to indicate the breadth of the individuals in question included both civilians and combatants. This is not POVPUSH, it is simply additional information and context verified in the source itself.

All in all, a vexatious claim and a waste of the Arbitration Committee’s time.

Statement by Sean.hoyland

Regarding "I was correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors", it would be helpful if KronosAlight would explicitly identify the antisemitic editors and the edits they corrected so that they can be blocked for being antisemitic editors. Sean.hoyland (talk) 08:17, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

The editor has been here since 2012. It is reasonable to assume that they know the rules regarding aspersions. It is reasonable to assume they are intentionally violating them, presumably because they genuinely believe they are dealing with antisemitic editors. So, this report is somehow simultaneously a vexatious complete waste of time and the result of the someone interfering with their valiant efforts to correct errors made by antisemitic editors. Why do they have this belief? This is probably a clue, a comment they had the good sense to revert. For me, this is an example of someone attempting to use propaganda that resembles antisemitic conspiracy theories about media control to undermine Misplaced Pages's processes and then changing their mind. But the very fact that they thought of it is disturbing. Their revert suggests that they are probably aware that there are things you can say about an editor and things you cannot say about an editor. From my perspective, what we have here is part of an emerging pattern in the topic area, a growing number of attacks on Misplaced Pages and editors with accusations of antisemitism, cabals etc. stemming in part from external partisan sources/influence operations. Sean.hoyland (talk) 17:35, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Zero0000

Aspersions:

Zero 10:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Vice regent

KronosAlight, you changed on 14 Dec 2024: "An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders interpreted that statement as a threat and incitement to violence" to "An open letter signed by Christian and Muslim religious leaders claimed was a threat and incitement to violence, though no threats or violence in fact occurred".

Can you show where either of the sources state "though no threats or violence in fact occurred"? VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 18:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Smallangryplanet

Wanted to add some pertinent evidence:

Talk:Zionism:

Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon:

This article gave me a very hearty laugh. It's hilarious. Nothing else to add, but congrats to the Editors for a very amusing article.

Talk:Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world:

I want to make it clear that large parts of the Arab world agreed with Hitler’s goal of exterminating the Jewish people.

Talk:2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks:

No evidence or reason to believe the attack targetted civilians, every reason to believe it targetted Hezbollah members. Also it's a bit of an overstatement to describe Lebanon as a "sovereign country".

Talk:Anti-Zionism:

Talk:Gaza genocide:

Talk:Nuseirat rescue and massacre:

It’s not how Misplaced Pages should work, and it badly distorts articles which should be neutral but are unfortunately pushes into pro-Hamas territory.

Talk:Al-Sardi school attack:

Yes, we’re familiar with your propaganda campaign masquerading as some sort of neutral position.

Talk:Eden Golan:

Can we stop acting like we aren’t creating double standards for Jews? Like there isn’t a profound problem of antisemitism among Misplaced Pages editors and moderators? It’s disgusting and shameful.

Other sanctions:

March 2024: indefinitely topic banned from the subject of flood myths for sealioning, WP:ASPERSIONS, etc
June 2024: warned to abide by 1RR
October 2024: blocked for a week

Statement by (username)

Result concerning KronosAlight

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Much of the "diffs of edits that violate this sanction" fail to explain "how these edits violate" the sanction - to me, much of these diffs look like a content dispute. However, the "additional comments" section DOES have a diff that is concerning and violates the CT by casting an aspersion that is not backed up by a diff - the "antisemitic editors" diff. Has KA been previously warned for casting aspersions? If they have, I'm inclined to issue a topic ban, but many other editors get a warning for this if they lack a previous warning. The diffs brought up by Zero (not all of which I necessarily see as aspersions, but the "Jew-hatred" one is definitely over the line - but it's from September so a bit late to sanction for just that) - did anyone point out that aspersions/incivility in this topic area is sanctionable? I see the warnings for 1RR and consensus required... Ealdgyth (talk) 13:30, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- @KronosAlight: - can you address the fact that saying "correcting factual errors introduced by previous antisemitic editors" and "Is there no limits you will not cross in order to seek to justify your Jew-hatred"? Neither of these are statements that should ever be made - and the fact that you seem to not to understand this is making me lean towards a topic ban. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
KronosAlight, can you please provide quotes from the references you cited for - for instance - "for his terrorist activities" in this addition, showing that the sources explicitly supported the content you added? Calling a person or an organization is perfectly acceptable if you support that with reliable sources; if it is original research, or source misrepresentation, it isn't acceptable. I cannot access some of the sources in question. You may provide quotes inside a collapsed section if you wish to save space. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
I missed Zero's comments earlier. A lot of those comments, while concerning, are generic, not directed at a specific editor. this, however, is beyond the pale. I would need some convincing that this user is able to edit this area constructively. Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:56, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
@KronosAlight, can you please respond to this? I too am concerned...the quote you're objecting to wasn't from DrSmarty. It was a direct quote, scare quotes and all, from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum. You seem to have reacted to it as if it were DrSmarty. Valereee (talk) 16:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
I don't like to sanction in absentia, and I'm not yet suggesting we do so, but I want to note that not choosing not to respond here, or going inactive to avoid responding, will not improve the outcome as far as I am concerned. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
They're a pretty sporadic editor...many edits over a period of a few days, then nothing for two weeks. Maybe we pin this until they edit again? Valereee (talk) 17:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
I agree with Valereee that this editors contribution history shows a pattern of editing for a day or two at a time followed by several weeks of inactivity. So I don't think it's fair to say they went inactive here but also holding this open for multiple weeks waiting for a response places some burden on the other other interested editors. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nicoljaus

Procedural notes: Per the rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user: Nicoljaus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed: To enforce an arbitration decision, and for edit warring, and intent to game 1rr, you have been blocked indefinitely from editing Misplaced Pages.

Administrator imposing the sanction: ScottishFinnishRadish (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator: I'm aware. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Nicoljaus

The circumstances of my blocking were:

I was looking for a Misplaced Pages account for Hiba Abu Nada to add it to Wikidata. I couldn't find it, so I did a little research. The reference in the article indicated that she participated in some WikiWrites(?) project. I didn’t find such a project, but I found the WikiRights project: https://ar.wikipedia.org/ويكيبيديا:ويكي_رايتس. It was organized by a certain Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor. I read the Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor article and didn't see any outside perspective, "controversy" or anything like that, just self-representation. I surfed the Internet and instantly found information that must be in the article to comply with the NPOV. I started adding , everything went well for two days. Then:
12:53, 23 April 2024 - Zero0000 made a complete cancellation of all additions
13:14, 23 April 2024 - (20 minutes later!) Selfstudier wrote on my TP
14:20 - 14:22, 23 April 2024 -‎ With two edits (first, second) I partially took into account the comment of Zero0000 about "ethnic marking", but returned the last .
14:27, 23 April 2024 (7 minutes later!!) Selfstudier makes a second complete cancellation of all my edits, blaming POV editing
14:45, 23 April 2024‎ - I’m returning the version where I partially took into account Zero0000’s comments (removed "ethnic marking")
15:10, 23 April 2024 - Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit User talk:Nicoljaus#1RR_breach
15:41, 23 April 2024 Selfstudier writes on Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement
16:10, 23 April 2024 (30 minutes later!) ScottishFinnishRadish issues an indefinite block . No opportunity to write my “statement”, as well as an extremely bad faith interpretation of my remark as "an intent to game 1rr".

Given that the both Selfstudier and Zero0000 are currently being discussed in Arbcom (https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence), I humbly ask you to take a fresh look at my indefinite block and soften the restrictions in some way". Nicoljaus (talk) 19:32, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish: - You mean, I need to discuss my previous edit war blocks? Well, the last one was almost four years ago and that time I simply forgot that I was under 1RR (there was a big break in editing) and tried to get sources for a newly added map, and the opponent refused to do so . As it turned out later, the true source was a book by a fringe author, which the RSN called "Usual nationalistic bullshit, no sign of reliability". Yes, it was a stupid forgetfulness on my part. Nicoljaus (talk) 16:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

@Aquillion: Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them) -- That's why I wrote that my "so problematic edits" attracted attention only after two days, but two users appeared within 20 minutes. However, after months, a lot of data about the cooperation of these users appeared (and this is not my imagination): "While a single editor, Shane (a newbie), advocated for its inclusion, a trio of veterans including Zero0000, Nishidani and Selfstudier fought back. After Selfstudier accused Shane of being a troll for arguing for the photo’s inclusion, Zero0000, days later, “objected” to its inclusion, citing issues of provenance. Nishidani stepped in to back up Zero0000, prompting a response by Shane. The following day, Zero0000 pushed back against Shane, who responded. The day after, Nishidani returned with his own pushback. The tag-team effort proved too much for Shane, who simply gave up, and the effort succeeded: the photo remains absent" . I'll add that after Selfstudier accused Shane of trolling, Zero0000 appeared on Shane's page and said: "Kindly keep your insults to yourself I won't hesitate to propose you for blocking if you keep it up" . According to the table at the link , these two users cooperated like this 720 times. Probably hundreds of people were embittered, forced out of the project, or led to blocking like me.--Nicoljaus (talk) 13:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish: Hello, thank you very much for transferring my remarks, now I understand how it works. I would like to clarify the issue of meatpuppetry. You directly accused me of such intentions in justifying the block, and now this accusation has been repeated . Let's figure out whether my hint that Selfstudier and Zero0000 are working too closely was so absurd? Was it really and remains so absurd that it could not be perceived as anything other than my self-exposure? I don't think so.

As for the "edit war" - I understand that edit wars are evil. In the spirit of cooperation, I tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule - I will of course avoid it in the future.--Nicoljaus (talk) 16:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

@Valereee: Hello, I understand your point that edit wars can be disruptive, particularly in a CTOP context. However, I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. Furthermore, I acknowledge your reference to the 1RR/3RR rule and my history of blocks for edit-warring. However, given the amount of time that has passed, I believe I have gained valuable insights and learned a great deal. Moreover, given this topic, I think I actually learned something unlike the other side, whose history of blocks for edit-warring remains clean.--Nicoljaus (talk) 4:24 am, Today (UTC−5)

@Valereee: In response to this, I can say that I already know very well how carelessly admins impose blocks. If any further statements are needed from me, just ping me. With best regards.--Nicoljaus (talk) 09:51, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish

Absent from the appeal is discussion of the five prior edit warring blocks and any indication that they will not resume edit warring. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

I said They have a long history of edit warring, so I'd like to see that addressed rather than blaming others above, twelve days ago. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Nicoljaus, you should be focusing on convincing people that you won't edit war in the future rather than more WP:NOTTHEM. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:11, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by (involved editor 1)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nicoljaus

Statement by Simonm223

This edit looks like a bright-line WP:BLP violation via WP:ATTACK and WP:WEASEL - and removing BLP violations are generally somewhere where there is some latitude on WP:1RR which makes the actions of Zero0000 and Selfstudier more justified, not less. Simonm223 (talk) 13:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Aquillion

Selfstudier accuses me of 1RR breach. In the dialogue, I explained that the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination. My first undo was part of a counter edit - I feel like this is obvious enough that I probably don't have to point it out, but "counter edit" is not a WP:3RR / WP:1RR exception. Even if you were correct that Selfstudier & Zero0000 were WP:TAGTEAMing (always a tricky accusation, because it's hard to separate that from just your edits being so obviously problematic that two people independently reverted them), it still would not justify your revert. The fact that they're parties to an ArbCom case (which hasn't even yet found any fault with them!) doesn't change any of this. You should probably read WP:NOTTHEM. --Aquillion (talk) 14:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by Sean.hoyland

"the group that really violated the rule was Selfstudier&Zero0000, who obviously acted in close coordination"...yet another conspiracy-minded evidence-free accusation against editors in the PIA topic area, the third one at AE in just a few days. Sean.hoyland (talk) 14:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)

Result of the appeal by Nicoljaus

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I do not see any indication that Nicoljaus actually realizes the problem. The edit warring blocks were indeed some time ago, but one might think they would remember it after being blocked for it repeatedly, not to mention that being issued a CTOP notice might call a CTOP restriction to mind. And the remark in question sure looks to me like a threat to game 1RR via meatpuppetry, too. Given all that, I would decline this appeal. Seraphimblade 23:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
I see nothing in this appeal that makes me think they've taken on board the changes that they'd need to do to be a productive editor. It reads to me like "my block was bad, here's why", and that's not working as a reason for me to support unblocking. Ealdgyth (talk) 23:21, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Nicoljaus, what we need to see is you demonstrating you understand edit-warring at a CTOP, which is what you were blocked for, and convincing us you won't do it again. Arguing the block should be lifted because other editors did something you thought looked suspicious isn't going to convince us. Just FWIW, Nicoljaus, the source doesn't actually say these two users cooperated like this 720 times. It says they edited the same articles 720 times, and that's not unusual. Most editors see the same other editors over and over again in articles about their primary interest. And edit by editor 1>2 days>revert by editor 2>revert by editor 1>20 minutes>revert by editor 3 is also not at all unusual anywhere on the encyclopedia and isn't evidence of tag-teaming. People read their watch lists. Any editor with that article on their watchlist, which is nearly fifty editors, might have investigated the large revert of an edit by an experienced editor at a contentious topic. Valereee (talk) 15:18, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
@Nicoljaus, it's not that edit wars are evil. It's that they're disruptive, and particularly in a CTOP we really really don't need additional disruption and drama. A revert is a revert, even if you tried to meet my opponents halfway, as in this case, taking into account their claim, which I could understand, in the counter edit. Re: If such an action is also considered an edit war and a violation of the 1RR/3RR rule: a revert is a revert and is covered in the policy around reversions. And you have a history of blocks for edit-warring, including at other CTOPs.

It's been seven months since the block. I'm trying to come around to a way to at least allow this editor a chance to show us they've taken this stuff on board...maybe a 0RR at all CTOPs? Valereee (talk) 17:44, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
@Nicoljaus, re I believe it is essential to recognize that not all reverts carry the same implications. While it is true that a revert is a revert, the context and intent behind the action should also be taken into account. In this instance, I made efforts to address the concerns of the other party involved, which reflects a willingness to engage in dialogue rather than simply reverting. Some editors at talk pages will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just take you to ANEW. Some admins at ANEW will take your apparent intentions into account. Some will just reblock you.

No one anywhere is promising that your intentions will be taken into account -- or even that they'll try to figure out what your intentions are -- and therefore it's completely your responsibility to read the situation you're in correctly. If you read it wrong, you're likely to be blocked again, and honestly another block for edit-warring at a CTOP is likely to be another indef, and it would absolutely not surprise me for the blocking admin to require 12 months to appeal. Valereee (talk) 15:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
No need to reply, but I'll tell you plainly I've been trying to give you opportunities to convince other admins here, and you keep wanting to dig the hole deeper. I'd support an unblock with an editing restriction of 0RR at any article with a CTOPs designation on the talk page. Valereee (talk) 13:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

PerspicazHistorian

Request concerning PerspicazHistorian

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: PerspicazHistorian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBIPA

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

17:57, 18 December 2024 - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of Hindutva (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
17:59, 18 December 2024 - tag bombed the highly vetted Hindutva article without any discussion or reason
10:15, 18 December 2024 - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
12:11, 18 December 2024 - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting reverted
17:09, 18 December 2024 - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
18:29, 18 December 2024 - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
14:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC) - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP."

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring.

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. Nxcrypto Message 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit here by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to MOS:TERRORIST. Nxcrypto Message 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian

Statement by PerspicazHistorian

By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu Page. I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before User: Ratnahastin told me about this: User_talk:PerspicazHistorian. Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.
In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to Edit_warring#What_edit_warring_is it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of Misplaced Pages:BOLD,_revert,_discuss_cycle.
As a clarification to my edit on Students' Islamic Movement of India, it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this edit. I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.

@Valereee, Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in Misplaced Pages:Edit warring#What edit warring is#Other revert rules. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I will commit to that. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. Seraphimblade 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when Satish R. Devane was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Doug Weller , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.

P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.Valereee (talk) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by LukeEmily

PerspicazHistorian also violated WP:BRD by engaging in an edit war with Ratnahastin who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.LukeEmily (talk)

Statement by Doug Weller

I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and User:Deb's comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving Draft:Satish R. Devane to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. Deb (talk) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. Doug Weller talk 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... Doug Weller talk 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Result concerning PerspicazHistorian

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

PerspicazHistorian, can you explain your understanding of WP:edit warring and the WP:3RR rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring even if they aren't breaking 3RR. Valereee (talk) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

@PerspicazHistorian, that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is the first time someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?

Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH; in their revert NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. Valereee (talk) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Walter Tau

Request concerning Walter Tau

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Bobby Cohn (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Walter Tau (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Final decision

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

4 December 2024 Creation (and subsequent editing and AfC submission) of Draft:Maternity capital. See it's page history, there's no need to supply the entirety of the diffs here.
- For context on how this subject falls under the purview, see the context given by the news article as shared on the talk page: Russia using adoption of Ukranian children during the Russo-Ukranian war. Then note how this state program directly discusses adoption support, which was adapted by Putin following the start of the war. A citation given in the draft article. The Google translated version specifically notes the changes "At the same time, residents of the new regions will receive maternity capital regardless of the basis and timing of their acquisition of Russian citizenship" (emphasis mine).
This draft, as it is written, is extremely promotional in areas and could basically be hosted on a state-sponsored website. Given the context, I believe this falls under the topic ban.

References

Bruce, Camdyn (14 December 2022). "Ukrainian official rips Russia for 'kidnapping' more than 13,000 children". The Hill.
"Путин подписал закон, уточняющий условия выплаты материнского капитала" . interfax.ru.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

26 November 2024 Notice given by Rosguill (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) that they were now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction
5 December 2024 Blocked by Swatjester (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) for violating the sanction based on the edits to a project page.

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

Has been made aware, see the diffs in the above section.
Alerted about contentious topics as it applies to this specific draft, on 4 December 2024 by Asilvering (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), given a warning about this specific draft and how it falls under the above purview.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

It has been repeatedly pointed out to Walter Tau that they are skirting the line of the their topic ban by specifically not mentioning the "elephant in the room", see the diff by Asilvering above. They have also repeatedly chosen to ignore advice that they stop editing in the subject area and have repeatedly claimed to fail to see how their editing is problematic. As such, I have opened this discussion here so as to get an answer for Walter Tau on their editing, see "Also, since you mentioned a "topic ban", I would appreciate, if you provide a reference to it, as well as explain how it relates to this article Materniy Capital." They claim to continuously be unaware of the ban, see also their talk page discussions.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified 24 December 2024.

Discussion concerning Walter Tau

Statement by Walter Tau

I feel, that the decision by Boby Cohn regarding my draft https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Maternity_capital, is "arbitrary and capriciuos" to use US legal terms : ], for the following reasons:

1) nowhere my draft mentions the words "Ukraine" or "Ukrainian".

2) this draft ] is a translation of the original Russian wiki- article : https://ru.wikipedia.org/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB . I have heard the argument, that different languages in Misplaced Pages use different standards for articles' notability etc. Can someone please provide a web-link to Misplaced Pages rules, that actually confirms, that different standards for different languages is the currently accepted policy. I have been unable to find such statement.

3) In fact, my draft focuses mostly on the policies before 24 February 2022, i.e. before full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine.

4) Please correct me, if I am wrong, by it seems that Boby Cohn's only argument of my ban violation is the following statement in my draft of Maternity Capital. "Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship." In my defense: I did not write that statement- it is a Google translation from the Russian wiki, actually a small part of the translated text. And with all honesty, when I was reading the translated text, it did not cross my mind, that someone may interpret so broadly. Also, this sentence-in-question does not really add much to the main subject to the article, and I do not object to its deletion.

5) Considering, that a) I did not write, but only translated the text-in-question; b) the relevance to the text-in-question to my topic ban is not apparent, particularly in the larger context of the whole article; c) I do not object deleting the text-in-question from the draft; may I suggest changing the draft to fix this controversy?

6) If there are other controversial sections/sentences in my translated draft, it may be better if someone re-writes them. Most wiki-readers, can agree with a statement, that this draft ] may not reach an "Article of the Day" status, but it has a value as a stand-alone article as well as a source of references (more-to-be-added). Walter Tau (talk) 13:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

I can see now, why some editors consider the translated addition, that I made, a violation of my ban on editing Russia-Ukraine topic. It was not my intention. I fact, I agree with the deletion of the questionable sentence "Residents of new regions are paid maternity capital regardless of the time and basis for obtaining Russian citizenship.". At the same time, I would like to keep the rest of draft, so that myself and other keep working on getting it published. Do I understand correctly, that the notability of this topic is not being questioned?

Statement by TylerBurden

Walter Tau doesn't seem to think they have done anything wrong on Misplaced Pages, so it's honestly not surprising to see them continuing to push the limit despite the sanctions they have received. At some point you have to wonder if there is a foundational WP:COMPETENCE or trolling (or a combination of both) issue. Either way, yes they are clearly violating their topic ban by writing about the Russian kidnapping of Ukrainian children from the war, because that is what this whole ″adoption″ thing is. --TylerBurden (talk) 17:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Walter Tau

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Sidestepping for now the question of whether simply not mentioning anything conflict-related would have been enough to avoid a TBAN violation, the references to "new regions" make this a violation much more straightforwardly. Justice is blind but not stupid. Walter, I think we're going to need to see recognition from you that this was a TBAN violation, if we're going to find a good path forward here. I'd also like to know who you are referring to when you reference other editors working on the draft? Auric has made some gnomish edits but you appear to be the only substantive editor. And why are you implying, on Bobby's talk, that y'all have been corresponding by email, when he denies that? -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 22:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
I'll be direct: I think Walter knows what he is doing and has no intention of abiding by his TBAN, even when it was exhaustively explained to him, and I don't think we should be wasting further time here when we're almost certainly going to be right back here again within a few weeks. ⇒SWATJester 05:29, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Back off a one week block for violating the topic ban, and already violating it again? (The "new regions" material is unquestionably a violation.) It seems that Walter Tau is either unwilling or unable to abide by the restriction, and does not, even after explanation, understand any of the issues here (or even understand something so simple as that different language Wikipedias are independent from one another and each have their own policies and practices). Given that, I don't see anything to be done here except to indef. Seraphimblade 17:45, 25 December 2024 (UTC)