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{{Merged-from|List of religions and religious denominations}} | |||
{{archives|search=yes}} | |||
==What about UFO Religions?== | |||
There is probably a good reason why they aren't included, but what is it? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 03:39, 12 August 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
== Order of religious groups and naming == | |||
==]== | |||
There appears to be a lack of a neutral system that forms the basis of how elements are named and listed here. Date, founder, origins should be applied consistently as to be neutral to all entities on the list. It need to be done from a rather neutral point of view and with a consistency. <span style="font-family:Tahoma;">]</span> 07:52, 14 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
I believe we should move this to the ] section. ] | |||
==African Traditional Religions== | |||
:*Oppose - the ] and ] were culturally distinct from ]. ] 14:44, 18 November 2006 (UTC) | |||
:*Oppose as well. Agree with Addhoc. -- ] 15:27, 18 November 2006 (UTC) | |||
:*Oppose of course. Per Addhoc, Egyptian religion was quite distinct from African Traditional Religion, but much more related to and had more interaction with Near Eastern religion, and probably even more related to ] (which was itself influenced by Egyptian beliefs). This is little more than an attempt to introduce an afrocentric POV into the article. ] 17:55, 18 November 2006 (UTC) | |||
::*RE: Egyptian religion supposedly being different from "African Traditional Religion"; Keeping in mind that African religions often differ from each other, there are many affinities between Egyptian religion and some religions elsewhere in Africa. One example is that both the ancient Egyptians and some Africans considered the pharaoh a god, as opposed to a priest like the ancient Mesopotamian kings. Secondly, the pharaoh had a rainmaker-like role as in some African religions, except it was the flood rather than the rain that he had control over. Finally, the religion of the ancient Sudanese to the south of Egypt was practically identical to that of the Egyptians! There are probably plenty of other parallels between Egyptian and various African religions, but space only permits a few. Besides, African religions are hardly homogeneous, and some probably differ as much from others as any of them do to religions in west Asia. While common themes occur between some African religions, the main uniting element of Africa's very large number of pagan religions is, of course, the fact that '''they originated in Africa'''. Since Egyptian religion is undeniably of African origin, in my opinion, it must be listed as an African religion. | |||
:*Novel solution: "African traditional religion" shouldn't be a category of religions because they are too diverse. Then the question of whether Egyptian should be in that category wouldn't arise. Achillobator, don't feed the trolls, no-one really thinks you are POV pushing, troll just said that to annoy you. ] 10:37, 19 November 2006 (UTC) | |||
::Good point, or perhaps instead of "ancient Near Eastern" or "African traditional religion", we could have neutral geographic categories like "African religions" or "pre-Islamic West Asian religions". I actually considered that at one point. Besides, "Near East" as a geographic term has a very Eurocentric and vague character, as does "Middle East" (although the "Near East" seems to be the same as the "Middle East", except the latter is used when discussing contemporary politics and the former is used when the subject shifts to ancient history). | |||
While I realize the pages themselves are not all well done, in fact, many are mere stubs, they should still be listed here. | |||
==Removal of repeated religions== | |||
From the ] page: | |||
:Also, I have made some minor edits, removing duplication. I am fairly confident that ISKCON (Hare Krishna) should be considered a Dharmic faith. Also usually considered Dharmic are Vedanta and Bhakti Yoga. Similarly, Pentecostalism is usually regarded as a recognised Christian denomination. I consider Jewish Buddhism to be a form of Buddhism, but not Judaism. Also, I think Falun Gong is best described as a Chinese NRM, because it's base on qigong practice, however I accept other descriptions would be plausible. Similarly, I think Aum Shinrikyo is best describe as a Japenese NRM, again other descriptions could possibly be more appropriate. Also the Unification Church is best considered a Christian NRM and Juche a non-religious movement. Sufism is usually considered part of Islam, while Theosophy is considered part of the western magical tradition. Finally, Gnosticism and Hemereticism are probably best described as revealed religions instead of esoteric or mystical beliefs. If there was an overwhelmingly good reason for all of these duplications, then I'll reinstate them. ] 12:57, 2 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
West Africa | |||
== List of Religions, not Generic Terms for Religious Practice == | |||
*] (Ghana) | |||
*] (Ghana) | |||
*] | |||
*] (Nigeria, Cameroon) | |||
*] (Nigeria, Cameroon) | |||
*] (Nigeria) | |||
*] (Nigeria, Benin) | |||
Central Africa | |||
Would anyone object if the following were deleted because they are not religions, but generic terms for practice: | |||
*] (Congo) | |||
:Astrology | |||
*] (Congo) | |||
:Exorcism | |||
*] (Congo) | |||
:Faith Healing | |||
:Meditation | |||
:Miracles | |||
:Prayer | |||
:Prophecy | |||
:Sacrifice (inc. Animal/Human) | |||
:Spirituality (Not Spiritualism, which is a religion) | |||
:Worship | |||
::] 19:17, 2 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
:::Sounds good to me, go ahead and remove them. -- ] 01:46, 3 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
East Africa | |||
== Other New Religious Movements == | |||
*] (East Kenya) | |||
*] (Sudan) | |||
*] (Sudan) | |||
*] (Kenya, Tanzania) | |||
Southern Africa | |||
There are other NRMs listed in other wiki articles that I am beginning to include, if there are no objections. ] 14:59, 3 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
*] | |||
*] (Zambia) | |||
*] (Malawi) | |||
*] (South Africa) | |||
- ] (]) 20:04, 21 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
:You left off ] | |||
In doing so, I have slightly expanded and reorganised the Christian and Buddhist sections. Again, if there was an overwhelmingly good reason for the previous system, then obviously I'll revert. ] 15:36, 6 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
:Northern Africa | |||
:*] (Egypt, Sudan) | |||
:**] | |||
:*] (Tunisia, Algeria, Libya) | |||
:*] (Morocco (including Western Sahara), Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Mauritania, Mali, Niger, Chad, Burkina Faso) | |||
:*] (]) | |||
:] (]) 19:00, 23 February 2023 (UTC) | |||
== Matrixism: the path of the One == | |||
Matrixism is included in the following books about religious movements: | |||
==Quick Problem...== | |||
"Religion and Popular Culture: A Hyper-Real Testament" Dr. Adam Possamai, Peter Lang Publishing Group 2005 ISBN 90-5201-272-5 / US-ISBN 0-8204-6634-4 pb. | |||
I just noticed that there is some repetition on the list. You might wanna take a took at it. Thanks. ] (]) 22:01, 9 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
"The Joy of Sects" Sam Jordison Publisher: Robson Books Publication Date: 7 November 2005 ISBN 1861059051 | |||
==Pastafarianism== | |||
"In Search of New Age Spiritualities" Adam Possamai, Ashgate Publishing, Ltd. 2005 ISBN 0754652130 | |||
I said it on the ] and I'll say it again: where is Pastafarianism?: | |||
:I don't think Pastafarianism classes as a fictional religion. While it has a certain notability on this ] page, on the official website it is neither explicitly stated nor implied that the religion is a parody, joke or fictional religion. Naming it as 'fictional' due to the subjective absurdity of a Flying Spaghetti Monster cannot satisfy the neuturality of wikipedia. As with one of the foremost comments, all religion is 'ficitional' by even the most lax of criteria. Thus, Pastafarian should be considered for removal, perhaps to a page on 'Minor religions'? | |||
Matrixism has also been mention in many newspaper articles and is listed on the course syllabi for various university courses on religious studies. This is a very much more than can be said for many of the religions on Misplaced Pages's "List of Religions". See for examples the content and references for McMahonism and Church of the Universe. ] 18:47, 13 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
:] (]) 01:29, 23 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
:Matrixism has been deleted twice, as recently as of May 20th 2006. See ] Since it is not significant enough to be a Misplaced Pages article, it is not significant enough to be on this page. The first step is to get the article to not be deleted based on verifiable information, and then it can be included here. -- ] 19:07, 13 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
I hereby request its inclusion on this list of religions. | |||
::That is verifiable information. In fact if you were to do a Google book search for "matrixism" you would find the latter of the three books listed above. There you can access the book's index and verify that Matrixism is discussed on page 120. While Matrixism does not have a Misplaced Pages article, and the reasons for this are debatable, it does have a re-direct to the Misplaced Pages page on The Matrix where its website can be accessed.] 19:27, 13 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
] (not logged in) ] (]) 00:55, 18 December 2008 (UTC) | |||
:::Verifiability is not the only thing that allows for inclusion in Misplaced Pages. Notability is also important, and as noted in ], Matrixism is not notable enough. The article on ] makes no mention of Matrixism, except the same spam link is included. -- ] 20:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
::::How do you define notability other than something is verifiably noted? Matrixism is notable enough to be included in books, newspapers and in college courses on religion. In what other way should it be notable? ] 20:18, 13 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
:That's an alias for ], which is in the list ''now''. ] dixit. (]!) 14:24, 18 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::::Let's put it this way: the first result on a Google search is a Geocities personal webpage. If you can provide links to websites to establish the notability of Matrixism (say, New York Times articles, and such), you're welcome to. At the moment, I'm very doubtful of the notability. It's not that I hate you, I'm sure you enjoy yourself and I wish you nothing but the best; at the same time, however, if we list every last bit of information on every subject, Misplaced Pages becomes unreadable -- thus, ], and thus notability is a concern. Hope that makes sense. Happy to discuss further, if you have new points. ] 20:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
== Section merge == | |||
::::::The New York Times is hardly the measure of notability. If it were many of the religions on the "list of Religions" would not be there. As for Matrixism's website being a personal site. That is a huge assumption on your part. It is a Geocities website without adds. That means that it is paid for and hosted just like any other URL. Three books and references in the Sydney Morning Herald and the British newspaper The Sun is very much notable. This is especially true when this standard is applied to the other religions listed on Misplaced Pages. ] 00:40, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
Should the "Historical polytheism" section be merged into "Indigenous traditional religions"? I vote yes.--] (]) 21:47, 11 January 2009 (UTC) | |||
== Discordianism == | |||
:::::::If Matrixism is notable, why has it been deleted twice as being non-notable. You have not made the case. You have evaded your block by using another IP, and I have reported you to an administrator. -- ] 00:46, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
A post in http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:List_of_religions/Archive_4#Discordianism claims that Discordianism is not a mock religion, and that its believers take it seriously. Greg Hill and Kerry Thornley clearly intended it as a parody. Robert Anton Wilson (a.k.a Mordicai the Foul) asked, Is Discordianism a religion disguised as a joke, or a joke disguised as a religion? Whichever way you interpret it, it's still a joke and any true believers are the punchline. Discordianism needs to be moved to Parody Religions. --] (]) 14:38, 24 April 2009 (UTC) | |||
::::::::Clearly I have demonstrated that Matrixism is indeed notable or you would not use this argument. I believe the invalid reasons that the article on Matrixism have been deleted previously are three: | |||
:] once said that to produce modern art you had to make sure the viewer couldn't tell whether you were producing serious art or just having a joke at their expense. And that you yourself couldn't tell, either. ] (]) 11:28, 21 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
::::::::1. Matrixism involves the use of what are considered illicit substances. | |||
:: Discordism is real, and there is a Discordian Humanism that is different from Discordianism. It is a more modernized version for modern times, and updated, and believes in equal rights for all. Check out Reddit at /r/discordianhumanism and /r/discordianism for more information and to find articles to cite for your research. Enemies of Eris Discordia and Discordians mock us by saying our religion is a joke, etc. It is a form of oppression from the other religions. ] (]) 02:10, 5 November 2013 (UTC) | |||
== Confucianism - Legalism == | |||
::::::::2. The URL that Matrixism uses is Geocities. | |||
Are ] and ] religions?] (]) 04:57, 18 October 2009 (UTC) | |||
::::::::3. Christians, Baha'is and others have a vested interest in keeping Matrixism down. | |||
== Christianity section == | |||
::::::::] 00:52, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
There has been some to-and-fro about where non-RC Western brands of Catholicism belong. I think what we actually might want to do is let ] do its job, and have what's here be just the top level or two of that. ] (]) 18:34, 15 April 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::I offered the NYT as an easy example, not as a concrete standard. If other items should be removed from the list, out of notability concerns, we'll take care of that. For the time being, we need to be convinced that Matrixism is notable. I was unable to find any evidence of The Sun mentioning Matrixism. A search of the archives, going back five years, under the term "matrixism," turned up ''zero'' results. Please provide a link or links to ], so that we can ] one or more of your claims. ] 05:34, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
: Your latest revision appears to be an acceptable compromise. I would like to comment however on what to do with ]. In some respects I agree with it remaining in the Catholic section as it's spiritual tradition is Catholic. But it's spiritual tradition is also Protestant. I've known Anglicans that put themselves in one or the other or sometimes both camps. Since you're Anglican, perhaps you know which group it fits better in, but my opinion on a somewhat unbiased level is that it belongs in it's own category. My personal POV is that they are Protestant, but that's coming from a Roman Catholic. ] (]) 19:01, 15 April 2010 (UTC) | |||
:: It's not really true to say that its spiritual tradition is Protestant; in fact it simply lands in both camps. The position in ] has been to use a "filter" rule, where each group is listed under the first heading that it matches (since there are many groups with multiple sensible categorizations) and to take "Catholicism" specifically as involving a claim of continuity with the pre-schism Church based on apostolic succession of bishops--which is essentially the only definition which makes the term refer to more than only the RCC, or every church. The RC notion that it must be Protestant is based upon the fact that it ''used'' to be much more strongly identified as such, and a general RC idea that whatever is not RC must be Protestant. Once we all become aware of the Old Catholics, for example, not to mention the Orthodox, the "not-RC equals Protestant" thinking tends to fall. ] (]) 20:46, 15 April 2010 (UTC) | |||
:: In any case, it has been discussed at various times at ], with varying changes in consensus over time. My view ''here'' is that this page should simply mirror that one. ] (]) 20:47, 15 April 2010 (UTC) | |||
== Spiritual Traditions == | |||
::::::::::The article noting Matrixism can be seen on The Sun's website at: http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,5-2005590116,00.html. The article in the Sydney Morning Herald can be seen on their website at: http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Theyre-all-god-movies/2005/05/18/1116361618786.html. ] 18:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
Is there any hope that the various "Spiritual Traditions" can be separated from "Religions" on the basis of religions being curriculum based, i.e based on agreed written rules and principles), while spiritual traditions (voudou, rastafarianism, and obeah, for example) are folk-based with no written or recorded methodology? They're not really related. ] (]) 21:10, 3 May 2010 (UTC) | |||
: I think this is tendentious. There is a continuum between; it seems odd in the extreme to say they are not related. ] (]) 17:54, 4 May 2010 (UTC) | |||
::It's not in the least tendentious. The one is an organized, repeatable ''curriculum'' of instruction with written academic texts and workbooks with the aim of propagating a uniform result. The other is a folk-based ''belief'', inconsistent and variable from one village to the next. That is a big difference. If you think otherwise, can you give us some insight into your reasoning? Perhaps you are thinking that Religion and Faith are the same (they're not), or that Tradition and Faith are the same (they, also, are not)? ] (]) 05:56, 6 May 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::I'm saying that any definition under which Greco-Roman religion is not religion is incorrect. Christianity did not become a religion sometime in the sixteenth century ("academic texts and workbooks"? When do you think workbooks were invented?). Hinduism is unquestionably a religion--or a cluster of religious traditions--as is Shinto, and yet, they are not "curriculum based" in any plausible sense. ] (]) 17:30, 6 May 2010 (UTC) | |||
::::You're bouncing all over the place. What, pray, is a "Greco-Roman religion"? And what do you think Christianity was before printed Bibles existed? How can you say that "Hinduism is a religion" in one breath, and then a "cluster of traditions" in the next? Doesn't that support my suggestion? ] (]) 05:53, 17 May 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::::Your suggest cannot even make sense of the concept of "folk religion". The Romans--who invented the word "religion", by the way--had a pagan religion, which did not involve any of your invented requirements for a religion. Can we find a source which makes the distinction you are arguing for, please? ] (]) 17:13, 17 May 2010 (UTC) | |||
::::::Tb is correct. "Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that establishes symbols that relate humanity to spirituality and moral values." That is the definition of religion from our very own religion page. Nowhere does it say that a religion needs to be curriculum based. Basically what you are saying is that only the Abrahamic religions are proper religions. This is biased and not acceptable on Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 19:56, 9 September 2011 (UTC) | |||
== Scientology == | |||
:::::::::I can likewise confirm that a NewsBank (world/UK) newspaper archive search finds no reference to Matrixism in ''The Sun'' or anywhere else. Furthermore, we're being misled over the book references: these refer to a different matrixism, a mystical/subatomic concept coined by Jean Charon in the 1970s, and nothing to do with the movie. ] 15:39, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
According to the wikipedia article at http://en.wikipedia.org/Scientology#Dispute_of_religion_status it is recognized as a religion by the United States government. I realize that there is dispute about whether it is a religion, but if some consider it a religion, perhaps it could be added with a notation that it is disputed. ] (]) 17:59, 29 July 2010 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::I have read all of the books referenced above that concern Matrixism. In each one they are specifically talking about the Matrixism whose website is: http://www.geocities.com/matrixism2069. The books even go so far as to refer to this website by its url. I am glad that you have gone out of your way to tell a bold faced lie such as this. It proves my point that people are using unjust, untruthful and invalid tactics to keep Matrixism out of Misplaced Pages. ] 18:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
==Parody or mock religions== | |||
::::::::::: The intersect between notable subjects and subjects with official sites on Geocities is the null set. HTH. ] 16:14, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
There are many more than can be added to start off you can add The Church Of Emacs, a "church" named after the Emacs text editor | |||
::::::::::::LOL ^_^ ] 21:40, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
And the Cult Of Vi named after the Vi text editor see http://en.wikipedia.org/Editor_war#Humour | |||
Sorry, but you have not made any valid notability arguments. Please show me one. Indeed you have violated your blocked, went past 3RR multiple times, and not ]. I am trying to uphold Misplaced Pages policy, and you are going againt it, even by not accepting that the external link should not be in the page. -- ] 01:02, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
:I responded to the rebuttals made above and have factually proved them wrong. The fact that people have misrepresented the truth in this regard bolsters my argument by showing that people have indeed been using unfair and invalid tactics to keep Matrixism out of wikipedia. ] 19:09, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
:Agreed. No valid notability arguments. The link is spam and should be reverted as such, as many times as are necessary until all the vandal's IP's have been blocked. ] 01:22, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
::Please see responses to the false arguments that were presented above. I expect of course that Jeff will not change his mind because he is a Baha'i and has a vested interest in squelching Matrixism. ] 18:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
:::I had already read your responses when I posted my comment, and found them insufficient. Claiming bias in other editors is an example of an ''ad hominem'' remark, which is forbidden under ] because such remarks disrupt civil debate and serve no useful purpose. Please stick to making your points in a ] way, and refrain from further commentary on your ''speculations'' about other editors' motives. Thanks, ] 20:13, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
::I have left a welcome message and a link to ] (with an explanation) on ]. Hopefully that will help somewhat in explaining the issues here. ]<sup>]</sup> 14:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
:::Once again, you have not provided any notability reasons for inclusion, and secondly you have constantly went against Misplaced Pages policy by including the External Link, in addition to going against 3RR and block-evading policies. -- ] 19:12, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
::::Jeff you are turning a blind eye to an obvious amount of significant evidence. One can only assume that your extreme bias is because you are a follower of the Baha'i Faith and thus dispise Matrixism so much that you cannot consider it objectively. Perhaps you consider removing yourself from this discussion due to your bias. ] 19:42, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
<small>note: I am sorry if I have done something wrong. Other than this I have only once ever edited a Misplaced Pages page</small> | |||
Another Misplaced Pages policy is ]. Please refrain from attacking me. My faith has no bias on these pages, and others can specifically note that. Matrixism has nothing to do with the Faith, and I don't despise it, and I really don't care about it it any way or form; everyone is free to practice what and who they wish. The only thing I am concerned on these pages is following Misplaced Pages policy, which includes notability, and you have refrained in multiple ways of abiding by Misplaced Pages policy. That's all I can say, look at my actions, and look at yours. -- ] 19:56, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
:That wasn't an attack it was more a statement of what I consider to be an apparent fact. You say that Matrixism has nothing to do with the Baha'i Faith but you have previously argued at length to the contrary. Also you tried making a link from the List of Religions to a Misplaced Pages stub that you started called Matrixism(entheogenic). It seems that you are grasping at whatever tactic you think could squelch Matrixism here. I am sure that this is a serious violation of Misplaced Pages policy.] 20:19, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
::Please show me where I have argued that Matrixism has something to do with the Baha'i Faith. In fact, I have stated that does not have anything to do with it, as you can check in the archives. Regardless what you think is an apparent fact, you have no right to libel me with what you think; that is Misplaced Pages poliy. And yes I moved the current link to the Geocities site to another Misplaced Pages site, because that is Misplaced Pages policy regarding External Links. I would ask you to read ] to refresh yourself on that policy. My actions have been to uphold Misplaced Pages policy, and yours so far have not. I have reported your 5RR to the administrators. -- ] 20:42, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
:::That would have been legitimate were there not already a re-direct for "Matrixism". Making "Matrixism (entheogenic)" seems to be a deliberate abuse. And again I don't agree that I am slandering you. That would consist of name calling and the like. I am merely pointing out that you may be biased in this argument as a Baha'i. That is a legitimate point for debate. Further I don't think that it is enough for you to just say "you have failed to show notability". I believe that you need to show why all of what I presented is not notable. ] 21:05, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
: I'm thinking the whole section could be cut as neither a religion nor a spiritual practice if these seem just some form of humor (Church of Trek) or comment of strongly held view conflicts on the level of 'religious wars' (DOS vs Unix wars). Do need to be careful as there are nontheistic religions and nontheistic spiritual beliefs, to where have Atheists or Jedism that seems not a religion but is officially recognized in some countries as such and able to conduct marriages and other functions associated to more common religions. And have some obviously mainstream religions that have do not form by a building -- traveling ministry, cafe church or internet church or pub church) but are definately holding a particular spitirual belief or spiritual seekers versus non-spiritual critic or vandal or humorist.. ] (]) 00:04, 16 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
I have read the above discussions and I am still perplexed. Why is this even being discussed? Matrixism (the fact that a word is created to describe something that does not exist is enough to give pause) does not exist except in the minds a few, obviously deluded, people. A religion? By what definition is it a religion? At best we could have a vanity article, but I don't think those who think it really is a valid topic would be pleased. I am certain that I could add some information about how movies create "religions" in weak minds. This is fantasy gone badly astray; what is worse is that we have citizens who want to argue the "rightness" of their case. "I watched a movie and there really is a 'one'"; can you really say that with a straight face? Does your mother know you what you are doing? I gest, truly, but I think we need a reality check here. | |||
== Greek/Roman Mythology? == | |||
Thank you, Jeff, for being attentive to this article and for being willing to continue to say no. My patience would have been completely expended some time ago. ] ] 21:11, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
Where it be at, broski? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 01:22, 4 May 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
:How do you demonstrate that something is notable besides that it is noted in books, newspapers and the like? I do not think that there is another way. Since it has been shown that Matrixism is noted in various publication to simply say I don't it has been shown to be notable is not much of an argument. Why are the references that have been provided not enough? Again this is much more notability than is shown for many of the religions listed on Misplaced Pages. It seems well above any reasonable threshold. Three books, two newspaper articles and a university course syllabus and those are only the ones that are readily verifiable. ] 02:03, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
: Greek and Roman religions still exist to this day, but are mocked and insulted by other religions in refusing to acknowledge that they are real, and that they deserve mention. When we try to get articles about them on Religion lists, it gets deleted by intolerant people who claim they are 'joke religions' and 'not real' and 'everyone who followed them is now dead'. But I challenge you to look at all of the statues in federal court buildings. They are from the greek and roman myths that our laws and type of government 'republic' are based upon. ] is one example, ] for another. Eris for example represents 'change', 'evolution', and 'progress' because without discord and chaos you would just have the same thing over and over again. ] (]) 02:19, 5 November 2013 (UTC) | |||
::See ] for more information. I believe the threshold is quite reasonable, and that "Matrixism" has a long way to go to meet it. ] 02:15, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
:::Did you look at the sources referenced? They are all reliable sources printed by reliable publishers. In what way are they not reliable sources? ] 05:08, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
::::For one thing, two of your books are by the same guy, so those don't represent differing viewpoints. The Sun is a tabloid - not reliable. Your other website ''merely cites the author of the books'', so it is not an additional source. So by my count your six "sources" are really three - books by two guys and a geocities website. Geocities is also generally not considered a particularly reliable source, last time I checked. It appears very likely that the book "Joy of Sects" is merely referencing either the geocities site or the two other books by the same guy. In short, you've got plenty o' nothin'. Please read up on ] some more and come back when you have something more than some guy's hobby attempt to ]. ¬_¬ ] 06:11, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
:::::Your characterization of The Sun is just your POV. In many people's estimation The Sun is right on par with the USA Today or the Washington Post. Also you make quite a lot of assumptions to create your theory of a swirling file of information. I doubt highly that you apply the same over-reaching skepticism to any of the other religions listed here. Again to use Church of the Universe and McMahonism as examples; The Church of the Universe lists as its only references a mysterious scrapbook and an even more mysterious pamphlet. Would you say that these are more reliable than what is written about Matrixism? McMahonism provides no verifiable references whatsoever. You may not like Matrixism because it involves the use of psychedelics but that is not a reason to change the standards used to create this list. ] 13:07, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
::::::Good points. As soon as we've settled the Matrixism debate, I'll get down to business on deleting <strike>McMahonism and</strike> Church of the Universe. Note that I am not a longtime editor at this list page, so I was unaware that those two (and possibly other) religions were also not notable. My interest was only attracted to this page when I heard that a revert war was in progress. ] 21:35, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
:::::::Struck out McMahonism. Clearly marked as a Parody religion. ] 01:37, 16 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
::::::P.S. The characterization of The Sun is not just my POV, but also the consensus of the editors at ]. ] 21:48, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
:::::::You might not like the opinions expressed by The Sun you might not care for its readership but The Sun has the "highest circulation of any daily English-language newspaper in the world." ] 18:29, 25 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
"Ancient Greek Religion" and "Religion in ancient Rome" are listed are listed under "Historical religions". "Hellenism" and "Italo-roman neopaganism" are listed under "New religious movements" - "Modern Paganism" - "Ethnic neopaganism". ] (]) 10:26, 25 December 2021 (UTC) | |||
Matrixism has been deleted twice as non-notable. Even the redirect to New Religious Movements was deleted (see ]). The people involved in those discussions, are not involved here and vice-versa. The consensus in all those discussions and in this discussion is that Matrixism is non-notable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages, and ] is one of the most parts of Misplaced Pages. This page is a list of religions who all have Misplaced Pages articles. Secondly, none of them have an external link to any website. Why should Matrixism be different? In Misplaced Pages, internal links are always prefered to External links (see ]) and you were not even happy with Matrixism inclusion without the external links. Your behaviour on this and other pages has even appeared on Misplaced Pages's ]. | |||
== Christian Science is not New Thought == | |||
If you feel strongly, that we are wrong, and I'm sure you feel that way, the best way to go about it, instead of continued linkspamming as you've currently done, bypassing Misplaced Pages's ] policy, is to use Misplaced Pages' methods that allow ]. | |||
Christian Science should be removed from under New Thought, it is a forerunner to the movement, but is its self not part of it. Or maybe the headline could read, "Christian Science and New Thought" ? ] (]) 13:02, 5 April 2013 (UTC) | |||
Given that if the ] Misplaced Pages page is created, you can then make as many internal links in other pages, and argue with it's inclusions in other pages, I suggest you try to first create/recreate the ] page. At this point in the resolution process, I think you should start with ], which can then lead to ]. I hope this information helps, and you will start working within Misplaced Pages policies, guidlines, and processes instead of continuely reverting to your version of the article. -- ] 15:30, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
:I agree that there has been consensus. I do not however agree that this has been fair. Valid points have been brushed aside one after the other. You're right one could say that thank goodness Misplaced Pages is not a democracy and continue on with the process. That being said I think that I will wait until there are even more verifiable scholarly references to Matrixism. I am interested to see just how blind to facts people will allow themselves to be just to protect their shakey world views. ] 18:14, 15 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
== Use of the term "mythology" == | |||
This Matrixism business is just a well known vandal with a Geocities page trying to mess with us. I don't suggest taking him seriously. — ] ] 00:03, 16 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
My congratulations to the author(s) for this very comprehensive list. | |||
Hi User:69.239.31.252, could you comment on the criteria for this article, which include: | |||
I don't understand, though, why the term "mythology" (with its negative connotations) has been used to label any of the religions. | |||
"As there are countless small religions, many of which cannot be verified to be real or legitimate, only those religions with Misplaced Pages articles will be listed in order to ensure that all entries on this list are notable and verifiable." | |||
It also seems inappropriate that virtually all of the "Indigenous traditional religions" (and virtually none of the religions in the other categories) use this term. | |||
Personally, I consider this to be reasonably fair, however I fully agree that in due course Matrixism could have further media attention and be relisted. For example, ] has (probably) survived a deletion vote, largely because of a single "Wired" article. | |||
Thank you for your consideration. | |||
As Jeff has discovered, I have given Matrixism a link at ], any chance I could encourage you to argue your case? ] 14:53, 16 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
--] (]) 03:12, 13 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
:] isn't out of the woods yet, largely because it's a ] that was apparently ''coined'' by the author of the "Wired" article, and no two google search results can agree on what it means. | |||
:Please read ], especially the section ]. Academia does not use it with any negative connotation, it simply refers to collections of stories that have a sacred value to a particular community. In many cases, there simply isn't an "-ism" name for certain groups of beliefs (indeed, some scholars have come to question if attempting to view many culture's spiritual beliefs as "-isms" is not ultimately a western attempt to force other spiritual beliefs into a model resembling the Abrahamic religions). ] (]) 03:48, 13 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
Hi - I agree that "myth" is a neutral term meaning "story". But the general perception of the term is negative - and conveys the message that this religion is either "ancient" and has been superseded by a "true" religion or that this religion has been discredited. All religions are a collection of "stories": creation stories, founder stories, stories about the acts of the major personalities. Also, all religions include codes of conduct and philosophies and values - which are not stories (although they may use stories to illustrate these concepts). Many religions include assertions - about the afterlife, about what the deity/deities expects of us, etc - these are not stories either (although they may use stories to explain how to attain the rewards of the afterlife). So, while calling a belief system a "mythology" is defensible based on the dictionary definition of mythology, I suspect that if we told a devote Jew, Christian, Muslim, etc that his world view was "the Jewish mythology", "the Christian mythology", or "the Muslim mythology" then I think he would be shocked (and offended) at our terminology. Thus, I think that removing the term would take away the negative connotation (without in any way diminishing the quality of the article). ] (]) 04:19, 13 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
: -- ] being the base component for non-virus life (and thus all food) on earth. I bring this up to partially illustrate why ] what ] mean and not ]. Also, we already have articles on ], ], and ]. C.S. Lewis (the guy who wrote Narnia, and pretty into writing about a traditional but otherwise universal Christianity) described Jesus as a myth that was also true -- in other words one of the more popular theologians of the 20th century used "myth" to refer to a religion's sacred story for which the true/false value is independent of it being a myth. ] (]) 13:11, 13 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
Thank you for your thoughts on this. I'm not certain (and I certainly mean no disrespect) that the 2 examples you raise are relevant to this situation. I can't comment on the DNA point because I haven't heard of this labeling outcry (I totally agree that any such label would be ludicrous). As to the other articles about Christian / Jewish / Islamic mythology: first they are different articles than this one (and so not relevant to how THIS article is written - ie, we can't "average" the 2 articles to somehow make Misplaced Pages right on an "overall" basis), and second those articles DON'T say "Christianity is mythical but Buddhism is a religion" - whereas this article DOES say "Christianity is a religion but this indigenous traditional belief is a myth". So my concern isn't so much in the use (or not use) of the word "myth", it is in the selective use of the word "myth". Now, let me add a new twist into our discussion (which I am enjoying and I appreciate your participation in it). I am an atheist - with absolutely no faith in any religion. I believe that EVERY religion is mythical (and in this context I AM using the popular meaning of "myth" as a false belief). I am not at all against the application of the word "myth" to the indigenous traditional religions - I totally agree with that characterization. My argument is that "myth" shouldn't be applied selectively to some religions but not to others. They are ALL mythical - but they ALL have some people who devotedly believe them (however wrong I believe those people's beliefs to be). So, to be absolutely clear, my point is that either the word "religion" should be applied to ALL of these belief systems, or the word "mythology" should be applied to ALL of these belief systems - because ALL of these belief systems have equal status (or equal validity - or equal lack of validity). If we apply the word "religion" (or the suffix "-ism") to some of them and we apply the word "mythology" (or even "folk religion") to others, then we are overlaying our personal Point Of View by selecting which belief system gets this word and which belief system gets that word. ] (]) 03:55, 14 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
:: The most obvious thing to me is that if the article that's being linked does not use "mythology" then it is editorial bias to use "mythology" in this list. ] (]) 01:47, 4 April 2015 (UTC) | |||
I agree, Bash, that this is a good criteria. I would consider using the neutral term "belief system" for every religion. This would even be appropriate for atheism and agnosticism. (If these latter two are not included, then "faith" would also be an acceptable neutral term.)] (]) 03:16, 4 April 2015 (UTC) | |||
::Our practice of not using Misplaced Pages as a reliable source for content verification is long standing and editorially sound. We therefor should not consider what an article says, to determine the neutrality of our verbiage nor as a tool for verification. Instead, we should continue using ] that readers can use to ] the accuracy and ] of the information our articles convey.--] (]) 12:35, 4 April 2015 (UTC) | |||
Hi John. I’m not certain I correctly understand your meaning: “We … should not consider what an article says to determine neutrality nor … for verification. We should ''independent reliable sources'' to verify the accuracy and neutrality …” | |||
If I do understand your intent then Misplaced Pages shouldn’t be considered reliable (or neutral) – it should only pique our interest and provide a really good bibliography so everyone can do their own research. | |||
I’m having a hard time coming to grips with that. I have found many excellent articles on Misplaced Pages. Even the article we’re discussing seems to me a very thorough list of the many religious beliefs in the world. I’ve read very informative articles on physics, history, and biology. I hate to think that the authors of all those articles (or the author of this article) had no intention of either accuracy or neutrality when they created their articles. I hate to think that all the people who give their time and knowledge to reviewing and improving articles have no intention of either accuracy or neutrality. And I don't believe that all the people who refer to Misplaced Pages for information have no expectation of either accuracy or neutrality. | |||
I believe an article should be as accurate, and as neutral, as possible. (And I'm certain that this is also the intent of the authors.) And that its accuracy and neutrality can be judged ONLY by what it says. | |||
Again, if I misconstrued your intended meaning, I apologize for that – and please do me the favour of correcting my misunderstanding. ] (]) 21:27, 4 April 2015 (UTC) | |||
:::Thank you for requesting these clarifications. It is entirely my error which unintentionally introduced the ambiguities of my previous comment. That you found understanding at all speaks well of your "power of reason". To achieve a thoroughly accurate understanding, as you have done, speaks remarkably well of the total person who edits Misplaced Pages as ]. I am glad that we met here today; that I've been blessed once again in my life – undeserving; once again. | |||
:::I meant to imply that we rightfully do not use one Misplaced Pages article as a reliable source for verification of some other Misplaced Pages article's content. You are absolutely correct that we invariably must "consider what an article says" to determine how well it adheres to the same areas of required compliance. It is true that "]"; a fact that should not cause a measure of lament. The informative articles you mentioned having read are the collaborative results of thoughtful editors who deserve admiration for the selfless service they voluntarily gave. I did not mean to cast any aspersions, or to suggest a nefarious thing, and I am sorry that sentiments like that were minced in my prose. I hope I have clarified this matter well enough, and ask that you tell me if anything else needs to be done to remove any "ill effects" that remain, or to restore the peace that was known; or the confidence lost as a result of the comment posted by me. Thank you.--] (]) 02:09, 5 April 2015 (UTC) | |||
Hi John - thanks for your clarification, and your kind words. Believe me, I never had any ill feelings. I also enjoy having these sorts of discussions with people such as yourself who put a lot of thought into questions of this nature and are willing to share and articulate their ideas.<br /> | |||
As I look back over the entire thread of this conversation and all its participants (Ian.thomson, BashBrannigan, and now you as well) I remind myself that the initial comment I made was that in a list of the many religions of the world, I felt that it was not appropriate that many of those were labeled as "religions" - and that some were labeled as "mythology". And I noted that virtually all and virtually only the "Indigenous Traditional Religions" were called "mythologies".<br /> | |||
Although several (interesting and enjoyable) tangents from this original concern have been travelled, I still feel that this gives an unnecessary bias to the list. I think that if the word "religion" or "belief" or "faith" (or even the word "mythology") was applied equally to each of the entries in the list (ie, EVERY entry in the list had the same label), then the article would be better balanced and more respectful of all belief systems - and this change would not at all diminish the quality of the article or the amount of information conveyed.<br /> | |||
Best regards ] (]) 03:09, 5 April 2015 (UTC) | |||
== Why is Scientology not listed here.....??? == | |||
:I'll echo the concerns of those that are saying the focus should be on getting the Matrixism article to survive deletion proposals before listing it here. Given that this seems to be the crusade of a single user, I'll also stress that ].--] 23:44, 16 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
::For the record Matrixism is not my website and I am not a "Matrixist". I have been drawn into this argument because I have witnessed Matrixism receiving unfair treatment on Misplaced Pages. It seems that this religion is being held to a standard that is not applied to other religions here. Standing up to this ugly double standard is really my only motivation. I am far from the only person to have advocated to correct this.] 18:28, 20 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
:::Matrixism is being held to a fair standard. If you feel other "religions" are being held to a less strict standard, then work on making the case for their deletion.--] 17:56, 22 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
::::Have a look at and . ] 10:49, 24 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
::::: A student newspaper (not a ]) and a quote that Matrixism is "a so-called movie-based religion that claims 300 adherents". Thanks, that makes a powerful case against inclusion. ] 11:33, 24 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
::::::No, a university quoting a recognised expert and this being picked up by a reasonable newspaper. Also, I am not saying that Matrixism should be included in this list, because the first requirement is to have an article. ] 11:45, 24 July 2006 (UTC) (formerly 80.189.???) | |||
::::::What you just wrote Mr. "Just zis" doesn't make any logical sense. I disagree with you Addhoc. I do not see it a Misplaced Pages requirement that Matrixism should have an article before being included on this list. If it is a requirement please show me where it is stated in Misplaced Pages policy. ] 18:35, 25 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
Ok, in my opinion, the approach of requiring entries to have their own article is sensible, not least because it avoids duplicating arguments. Clearly, this only a view that has been developed by editors, not a formal policy. ] 18:53, 25 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
It has a significant population <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 23:57, 11 December 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
It looks like notable religion to me. ] 18:12, 30 August 2006 (UTC) | |||
== |
== So many? == | ||
So if I believe in one of them... does that mean I'm against the believe of the other 4,199 religions in the world? | |||
I have moved the Chinese Catholic association to Christian NRMs, which is possibly incorrect, for example they have a reasonably large following. Any suggestions on how ] could be listed? ] 18:00, 14 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
== Ājīvika == | |||
I have listed the individual groups under "Catholics having broken communion with Rome", to see if this approach is any better. ] 14:24, 26 July 2006 (UTC) (formerly 80.189.??) | |||
Ājīvika, which was just added, is | |||
== Messianic Judaism == | |||
# primarily a philosophical tradition, in which case, I wonder if it should be listed here at all, or alternatively | |||
# according to the ], most closely related to the Hindu tradition, in which case it should be categorized there? ]<sup>]</sup> 19:17, 29 June 2018 (UTC) | |||
== A section about fictional religions ? == | |||
Since it is so disputed as to whether or not it is Christianity or Judaism, should it not fall strictly under "Abrahamic"? | |||
Because while Jews insist Messianic Believers are not Jewish, Messianic Believers insist they are not Christians. | |||
If it were alone, then neither group would have any qualms about it (save maybe the name of the group itself, which is another matter). ] 20:20, 17 July 2006 (UTC) | |||
* <s>I agree that with you that they should be separated into their own group. I mean, the only argument that makes them Christians is their belief in Jesus but since believers of ], ], and even ] believe in Jesus up to some degree, maybe it should also apply to them.--] 07:06, 28 July 2006 (UTC)</s> | |||
Could we create a new section about the fictional religions ? They are numerous in fantasy and SF. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 10:31, 13 May 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
== Recent edits == | |||
:The religions listed would need to be ], such as the ones at ]. However, I worry that if we add such as section, it's going to get stuffed with unsourced and non-notable ]. ] (]) 10:59, 13 May 2020 (UTC) | |||
::Since ] exists, there is no need to expand this list. I have added the fictional relion list to the ] section. ] (]) 16:28, 11 July 2020 (UTC) | |||
== Bön Religion == | |||
I don't agree with recent reorganisation of this list which places Baha'i Faith at the start and Babi at the end, which isn't very helpful. I don't see why there has to be this distinction. In the ] article the Baha'i Faith is mentioned and the Babi faith isn't, which is appropriate. However, in this article, placing religions out of alphabetical sequence for unexplained arbitrary reasons isn't appropriate. ] 19:05, 8 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
:I agree, I would go to the organization before today's edits, as those extra super-classifications are not really needed. Plus instead of alphabetical, maybe it should be more cronological, (i.e. Judaism first in the Abrahamic religion section). -- ] 20:35, 8 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
I am not sure if the Bön religion should be listed as Buddhist, it does in fact have some connections with modern day Tibetan Buddhism however the Bön religion was in Tibet first, and is very different to Buddhism. ] (]) 00:48, 7 July 2020 (UTC) | |||
==Rabbinic Judaism== | |||
The opposite of Rabbinic Judaism is Karaite Judaism. Reform Judaism is rabbinic. Reform Judaism was started by rabbis and reform Judaism still has rabbis. Reform Jews study halakha; although it is not binding, it is still a feature of the religion. The opinion that Reform Judaism is not rabbinic is a very small minority opinion which is not to be found outside the orthodox/conservative world and it does not constitute a normative categorization appropriate for wikipedia. ] 14:42, 18 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
== Johnson cult is mis-classified by its own Misplaced Pages entry. == | |||
See above. ] 22:23, 18 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
On the List of "cargo cult" religions, the Johnson cult is listed. However, when visiting its Misplaced Pages page the first sentence is "The Johnson cult, formerly misidentified as a cargo cult"<ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/Johnson_cult</ref>. It also does not fit the description of a cargo cult, or of a religion necessarily. Someone with a broader understanding of this article should revise this. | |||
:Karaite Judaism is NOT the opposite of Rabbinic Judaism. Karaite Judaism is the rejection of the Oral Law. Reform Judaism rejects all Jewish law and is not even considered Judaism by Orthodox Jews, as it has a vastly different theological basis. The last time we went through this squabble we threw out the "Rabbinic" category since it was essentially useless.] 02:03, 19 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
22:09, 6 September 2020 (UTC) <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) </small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
::That it simply ignorant. Karaite Judaism is not just "the rejection of the oral law". Reform Judaism does not "reject all Jewish law". God knows what "Orthodox Jews think", I'm sure you don't. This solution is not ideal but I can tolerate it. ] 07:19, 19 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
{{reflist-talk}} | |||
== Polytheistic Reconstructionism == | |||
::Karaite Judaism, it is true, is not "the opposite" of Rabbinic Judaism...it is, however, the most successful ''opponent'' of Rabbinical Judaism--at one time claiming up to 1/3 of Jews among its adherents. It is also true that Reform Judaism does not reject all Jewish law...it ''does'', however, reject the '''authority''' of Jewish law in informing personal decisions. Where I have to part ways with Zargulon, beyond the ] and ] violations inherent in the "That is simply ignorant." statement, is in the apparent assertion that Reform is considered Judaism by Orthodox Jews. The pathetic ] by invoking what "God knows", and the ] in the assurance that Hergargo "doesn't ", is...well, exactly that...''i.e.'', "pathetic. ''Every'' Orthodox rabbi who has ever addressed the status of Reform vis-à-vis "Torah Judaism", has dismissed it as apostasy, and a number have even blamed the Reform movement as the cause of the Holocaust, ch"v. I would say, based upon personal experience, that the vast majority of Jews who identify themselves as "orthodox", and who adhere to Orthodoxy, under whatever guise or name, agree with Hiergargo's assertion, that "... Reform Judaism ... is not even considered Judaism..." | |||
Shouldn't the reconstructed polytheistic religions be under the religions on whose basis the polytheistic religions were reconstructed? ] (]) 11:42, 15 September 2020 (UTC) | |||
::Beyond that, the statement "This solution is not ideal but I can tolerate it.", by ], seems me indicative of an abject failure, if not outright refusal, to abide by or even simply understand ]. ]<font color="#008000">]</font>]] 07:54, 19 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
== Eastern Religions == | |||
:Tomer, Reform Judaism does not "reject the authority of Jewish law in informing personal decisions". Your personal experiences with Orthodox rabbis and Jews are irrelevant to wikipedia. We would not even be having this argument if you guys cited a reliable source, but since you are wrong, I suppose it must be pretty difficult to find one. Your contrived wikilawyering is an embarrassment. See below. ] 08:34, 19 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
::Where are your sources, Zargulon? Hello pot, meet kettle. We would not be having this argument if you would comport yourself a little less obnoxiously. As for the accusation of contrived wikilawyering, what's an embarrassment is that you apparently honestly believe what you're saying. It can't be helped, I guess...there's got to be one in every crowd. WE won't be arguing in the future, since doing so, ]. To the list of policies and guidelines I've already pointed out to you, ] for you to review. Muwahahaha. Stay hungry, ]<font color="#008000">]</font>]] 22:46, 19 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
:See ]. ] 06:43, 20 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
Should we combine East Asian religions and Indic religions under the Umbrella term Eastern religions, similarly to how Iranian and Abrahamic religions are under Middle Eastern religions? ] (]) 05:25, 25 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
==Orthodox Judaism== | |||
For the record, while our article on ] doesn't make much of the distinction, and our ] article makes short shrift of the very existence of Sfaradhim, what is called "Orthodox Judaism" refers, in the minds of those who say it , almost exclusively, to '''Ashkenazi''' Traditional Judaism. Among the latest Ashkenazi dogmaticisms seems to be an insistence that everyone reading Misplaced Pages should be forced to have the Jewish world presented to them only as seen through Ashkenazi eyes. The claim being made here to undo my edit, namely, that Sfaradhi and Ashkenazi are solely cultural distinctions flies directly in the face of the assertions made elsewhere (] comes to mind), that in Judaism, culture and religion are inextricably interwoven. ]<font color="#008000">]</font>]] 23:49, 18 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
== European Religions? == | |||
:Go forth and write more about Sefaradhim. I'm all for it. They're just as much Jews as us ’Ashkenazim. But: | |||
A new section on European religions has been added, most of these religion are from the ethnic religious, new religious movement, or Historical religions. Just wondering. ] (]) 22:06, 28 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:1) Why aren't you mentioning the Yemenite Jews and the Middle Eastern Jews (עדות המזרח), who are separate ethnic groups? What about the Ethiopian and Indian Jews? | |||
== the very small religon of walsisisum == | |||
:2) The differences between Orthodox ’Ashkenazim, Sefaradhim, Yemenites, and Middle Easterners tend to be practice-based, not ideology-based. Any competent rabbi will tell someone to follow someone to follow his/her own community/family practices, despite differences with his own. | |||
walsisisum is the least known religon that is only celebrated by 7 people tops. | |||
:3) Don't foist the non-Orthodox groups off on the ’Ashkenazim. Orthodox rabbis, in my experience, have repeatedly denied they were even the same religion as Orthodox Judaism, no matter what ethnic group. Better to fence those off as a separate group.] 02:23, 19 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
a very small organization only as of today put on the internet where there leader puts out videos to its few followers and nobody knows there in on it like a cult almost. | |||
the belief is that the world was created by a powerful god who used the last of his power to create everything us the earth and the universe. | |||
and then slowly gets turned into the form of what we now know of as the walrus. | |||
he also wanted the people to be friends with the walrus not to kill and hunt them like they did. | |||
they where supposed to watch the humans and keep them in order. | |||
this is a dying religion if you are looking for one please consider this one also if you would please make it known to the world I did the best I could. | |||
how would I know so mutch about this cause I am the leader <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 00:41, 8 January 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
Where does it end though? I can easily get my 7 best friends to agree to a religion and start making videos. This whole article seems to be chock full of narcissism. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 11:39, 10 June 2021 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
::1) At the top of the list, it specifically says that only groups that have WP articles should be included in the list. There are no articles for ], ], ], ], etc., nor even, for that matter, ]. | |||
== New Age movement or Occult == | |||
::2) Practice-based is one of the foremost divisions between the vast majority of denominations (or analogous internal divisions) in most of organized religion. For example, the difference between the 2nd and 3rd largest Lutheran denominations in the US (if I recall the numerical rankings correctly) involves the relative importance of certain functionaries within the hierarchy of church leaders. Among other denominations, the differences are as minor as whether they regard Jesus to have established 2 sacraments or 7, or some other number in between. The vast majority of such divisions are culturally and tradition-based, not simply ideology-based (eventhough ideology is how the divisions are often interpreted). Regarding whether or not a competent rabbi will tell someone to follow the person's minhagh vs. the rabbi's his, i.e., the pastor's religion as opposed to the questioner's], that scenario involves a difference in outlook between Christianity and Judaism--in other words, ]. | |||
On the New Religious movement section that contains ], ], ] should it be under ] or ] ] (]) 05:52, 8 January 2021 (UTC) | |||
::3) I didn't foist the non-Orthodox groups off upon the Ashkenazim...that's where they came from to begin with. Although a lot of Conservative Jews have adopted Sephardic customs, ] is an outgrowth of ], which began as a ]-based outgrowth of ]. As it happens, ], the ] and ] all developed from Conservative Judaism (although the last drew largely on ] as well). Granted, ] probably doesn't warrant inclusion under ] at all, any more than ] or ], nor, for that matter, probably ] ...and for that reason alone, shouldn't be foisted upon the Ashkenazim. (I'm happy to exclude them altogether, so long as nobody says anything about ] ;-) ...) As for whether or not they should be "separated", that's an issue I don't know how to handle from a ] standpoint...especially not in a way that conforms with ]. I'm especially unhappy, as I've expressed previously, with the very existence of the ] article (at least by that name...IMHO it should be called ] or something similar)... Starting an article to handle those groups as well as the "denominations" whose devotion to halakha is notably less-than-steadfast, or in severe decline (''i.e.'', ], ], ], etc.), as well as the groups listed in the Alt Jud article, however, would incite an almost inconceivable crapfest from editors who would feel insulted by their Conservative (for example) Judaism being lumped together with Jewish practitioners of paganism and witchcraft, and with Christians, etc. etc. As for denying that any of these groups are the same religion as Orthodox Judaism, I have to agree...in fact, the first breakaway group, the Reform, set out ''specifically'' to accomplish exactly that goal--''i.e.'', the establishment of a new kinder, less-restrictive, more-Christian-looking religion. ]<font color="#008000">]</font>]] 03:43, 19 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
== Dudeism Classification == | |||
:This is not not some teenage Orthodox Judaism forum where contributors are free to vent their prejudices at length in yeshivish about other streams of Judaism and other religions. Look where you are, and either make an educated contribution, or kindly desist. ] 07:33, 19 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
{{hat|LTA sock, see ]. --]|] 19:59, 10 June 2021 (UTC)}} | |||
::Is there any reason you chose to reprimand yourself in this manner on this page instead of on your user talk page? ]. Kindly review ], ] and ]. If you were directing your venom at anyone else besides yourself with your above statement, the sum total of your remarks are wholly inappropriate. If you were talking to yourself, they're irrelevant. ]<font color="#008000">]</font>]] 22:39, 19 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
Now, i don't want to be like some of the other people on here advocating for the silly religions that exist and trying to get their classification changed by playing dumb, but I really think it might be worth it to consider my request. But like, I understand if it doesn't, man. So right now, Dudeism is classified as a Mock religion or a religion based on fiction. Allow me to address why i think both of these may be untrue. | |||
First if all, it is obviously not a mock religion because it is not mocking anything. It's not like pastafarianism that obviously mocks Christianity. It's based off of Taoism, but with a modern view of it and without the metaphysical shit and what have you. It's not trying to mock Taoism, as the religion itself is promoting it. | |||
Secondly, I definitely see how it is considered to be based upon fiction, but I would like to talk about how I believe it is untrue. Obviously, it was inspired by the fictional movie "The Big Lebowski," but I think it's less based on that, and instead uses it as a vessel to explain a very, very ancient form of thinking in a modern way. The religion itself says this on the website and such. Basically, the religion is not about the Big Lebowski, that way I see it, it's about Stoicism, Daoism and really just going with the flow and being in the moment, and it uses the carefree character from that movie as a model to how one should go about their life. | |||
So, that's my opinion. I can add sources to some of my claims if anyone wants. I think maybe whoever is able to edit this might want to look into it more for themselves, and hopefully consider moving it to the Other section or the neo-thought section or something. Thanks for reading and take it easy. ] (]) 23:24, 29 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
In my contributions so far on this page, I have done nothing worse than criticise people's ''contributions''. ], on the other hand, have accused me ''personally'' of having venom and an obnoxious comportment. Which of us do you think most people would say was making "personal attacks"? I have assiduously stressed the ecumenical nature of this page and upheld respect for other people's religions. You, on the other hand, launched into an unprovoked assault on non-orthodox streams of Judaism, going even so far as to call some of them ''personally'' apostates (not just their alleged beliefs). Which of us, if either, do you think most people would say had "venom" or was "comporting themselves obnoxiously"? In the interim period I have started 5 new pages on topics completely unrelated to this one, and they sure were hard work. Your edit record during the same period speaks for itself. Which of us do you think most people would say was obsessed? By the way, if you can type in hebrew letters, could you please fix the contradiction at the ] page. | |||
Using a hebrew word in the middle of an English paragraph when there is a more normal English word which means the same thing (epikorsim=apostates) sounds ] to me but I admit it's subjective. | |||
] 07:02, 20 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
:OK, I recommend we take whatever personal differences we have off the discussion page for this article/list. Asking for citations is one thing, saying "you haven't given any citations because you're wrong" is quite another. Letting that rest tho, I think I've fixed the contradiction you pointed out at ], and when I have time, and get my internet working properly again, I'll be happy to supply references for the assertions I've made above . FWIW, neither ] nor ] apply to talk pages, and I made no changes to the article that violated either of those two policies...so, in my view at least, any discussion of either, regarding my changes, is frivolous and misinformed. As I have explained elsewhere, while my edit history is really irrelevant to my participation on this page, I am having pretty severe internet connectivity problems... Beyond that, the demands of my job have, for the past few months, taken up much of the free time I once had to edit WP. Directing your comments toward me, however, is just as unproductive to the betterment of the article/list as my directing mine toward you was previously, so let's, please, agree to figure out the best way to procede in the interest of the betterment of the Project. As a side-note, "apostates" can refer to apostates from any religion...I used it specifically to refer to apostates from traditional Judaism, for which the word "epikorsim" is the perfect choice. If you'd paid any attention to this whole discussion, you'd long ago have figured out I'm Sfaradhi, not Ashkenazi, and find Yinglish as bewildering as most Americans find Arabic... I hereby declare a flushing of all misunderstandings, and hope you'll agree to do so as well, in the interest of making the list "all that it can be". ]<font color="#008000">]</font>]] 07:49, 20 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
OK, good luck with your connection. Thanks for fixing Masoretes. It is news to me that yeshivish has to be based on Yiddish/Ashkenazic, although that's certainly what it says on the yeshivish page. ] 08:23, 20 September 2006 (UTC) | |||
Hey all, since I haven't received a reply and it's May 5th now. I'm going to move it myself. Totally understand if it gets reverted, just thought I might see if anyone opposes. Thanks ] (]) 23:07, 5 May 2021 (UTC) | |||
== Discordianism == | |||
Yeah. Well. You know, that's just, like, your opinion, man. Reverted. — ] (]) 16:36, 10 June 2021 (UTC) | |||
{{hab}} | |||
== The website used as the first source in this Misplaced Pages article has now been repurposed as a loan broker website. == | |||
Should we use the available instead? | |||
] (]) 13:06, 2 May 2021 (UTC) | |||
== Discussion on "Reverting each other, Indo-European, etc" == | |||
There is a discussion on ], about the naming of Indo-European category, the separation of North Africa and Sub Saharan Africa, and should religions of Asia be cluster together under an Asia banner. I mention this Edit War here since it may affect this page at some point with similar concepts just discussed on that chart.] (]) 05:37, 25 May 2021 (UTC) | |||
== New Age is not Middle Eastern == | |||
Asking for the removal/move of New Age and putting it in New Religious Movement instead of Middle Eastern category. ] (]) 16:09, 22 June 2021 (UTC) | |||
:Go ahead. ] -] 18:12, 22 June 2021 (UTC) | |||
== This article is a disaster == | |||
It should be rewritten with sources or deleted. Many contents seem to be inventions. For instance, ] is currently listed under "Fiona Temple" (which probably does not exist), itself listed under ]. The ] are themselves listed under New Age. Is this article serious or a joke?--] (]) 13:58, 26 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
== I don’t understand what I am == | |||
No ] (]) 23:45, 19 April 2022 (UTC) | |||
== Religions == | |||
M ] (]) 13:42, 8 May 2022 (UTC) | |||
== New age listing == | |||
Someone a lot of things to the New Age section with the note: "Note: All New Age groups are listed in random order. Please organize this." | |||
I may get back around to dealing with this but if I don't, this is a notice for anyone who would like to. ] (]) 15:34, 9 October 2022 (UTC) | |||
:Did it in alphabetical order. That okay? --<span style="background-color: indigo;">]<span style="color: yellow"> ⋆</span>]])</span> 16:49, 9 October 2022 (UTC) | |||
== Earthseed == | |||
As a member of the Earthseed family and vocal advocate for such, I added that and Terasem as a subset of it under Post-theistic and Naturalistic Theologies. There's already articles on Misplaced Pages for both Earthseed and the Terasem Movement, and I even included a reference to Earthseed's central website as evidence that it is not entirely fictional. I am an Earthseed shaper and there's enough of us to demand inclusion on this very long list of religions and spiritual traditions. ] (]) 01:29, 13 January 2023 (UTC) | |||
== WP:CRYSTALBALL == | |||
The last sentence of the first paragraph currently states: | |||
<blockquote>"According to some estimates, there are roughly 4,200 religions which at some point in the future will be countless."</blockquote> | |||
I wonder whether the last portion of this sentence should be deleted per ]. I find it entirely plausible that a future trend of major religions absorbing numerous smaller ones could emerge, but who knows, I don't have a crystal ball. ] (]) 21:04, 20 September 2023 (UTC) | |||
:Agreed. Countless implies infinite to me. There may well be a lot more religions in the future but they will likely still be countable. ] (]) 23:13, 20 September 2023 (UTC) | |||
::Ok, given that I'm not alone in this thinking, I've removed the latter part of the sentence from the article. ] (]) 00:09, 23 September 2023 (UTC) {{Done}} | |||
== Historical Religions == | |||
Discordianism is NOT a mock religion! | |||
It is a very real religion with very real beliefs. | |||
It might look like a parody because of the very humorous tone some of it's philosophy have ("Nonsense as salvation!") , but it's still part of the philosophy. | |||
Discordians actually '''believe''' in Discordianism. | |||
Anyway, it might be a good idea to put it under the "other" category, since it is a very unique kind of belief system. | |||
There are listing of historical religions under (historical) listed twice some under a different category. Should they be listed under both or should all historical religions be under historical religion section. ] (]) 08:41, 26 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
== Objectivism == | |||
:Imo all historical religions should be exclusively listed in historical religions. It was a while ago, but I was reading through the talk pages and there seems to be an established precedent that religions should only be listed once even if you could argue they'd fit under multiple categories. ] (]) 16:08, 29 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
I noticed that there was a list for groups that were non-religious but had religious tendencys, should we include Ayn Rand's ] philosophy since it's critics have accused it of being a cult? ] 14:36, 7 October 2006 (UTC) | |||
== East Asian Religions == | |||
::Done. ] 15:17, 7 October 2006 (UTC) | |||
I've been thinking about this for a while now so I'll put the question out there for discussion. Currently all East Asian/Southeast Asian religions are put under the world religion category which defines world religion as trans cultural and international. Most East Asian religions can not be argued to be transcultural or international. While Shintoism, Confucianism, Taoism and the like could be considered transcultural and international most of the other religions listed clearly are not (at least not to any significant degree). Vietnamese and Chinese folk religion is almost exclusively practiced by Vietnamese and Chinese people respectively. | |||
== Quakers and Christianity == | |||
One solution would be to partition the East Asian religions. Put the transcultural and international ones in world religions and put the rest as ethnic religions. This feels like the obvious solution, but there are issues with it. These East Asian religions still maintain a distinctly ethnic character, even Confucianism and Taoism, and could be described as a gray area between world religions and ethnic religions. There is also something to be said about how integral the local ethnic faiths are to Confucianism and Taoism. Putting these faiths on different sides of the article ignores the syncretic nature of all these East Asian faiths, they quite clearly constitute a single family of faiths that have influenced each other for over 2000 years. | |||
I do not think that the Quakers (Religious Society of Friends) should be listed as 'Christian', as there is no set Creed and thus whether or not Quakerism is a 'Christian' Religion (or a religion at all, many Quakers deny that Quakerism is a 'religion' in the convential sense!) is left up to the individual themselves, and there is an increasing movement away from Christianity for numerous reasons (theological, spiritual and political). There is definately not question that the Quakers emerged from Christianity, from Protestantism, but at the same time there's no question that Christianity emerged from Judaism or the Baha'i faith emerged from Babism which emerged from Shia Islam! | |||
Yet putting them in one category or the other is also problematic. Putting them all as ethnic religions dismisses the global character of, especially, Taoism and Confucianism. Yet putting them as world religions feels equally problematic as some of the East Asian faiths are literally called folk religion. | |||
In addition, this this contradicts the ] article: "Many Quakers feel their faith does not fit within traditional Christian categories....and is still controversial among Friends.]]. Obviously, I cannot speak for all Quakers, Quakerism itself makes that impossible, but I think that most would object to being termed 'Protestants' and would probably prefer to be in the 'Other' list, though a note about the historical relationship to Christianity would certainly be appropriate. | |||
Ultimately I think seperating them is the best idea and one I'd be fine to do myself if the rest of you agree, but I want to make sure there's input before I do anything like this. ] (]) 16:24, 29 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
I'm not going to leap in and make any changes before it has been discuss, so any comments?-] | |||
:After some quick reading it seems like some consider it to be part of Christianity, and others don't. Not an easy problem. For example, from the ] article it states that the movement away from Christianity "''has become increasingly evident during the latter half of the 20th century and the opening years of the 21st century, and is still controversial among Friends.''" I guess the solution comes from citing good sources; Adherents.com puts them underneath Christianity ; also, unfortunately, the ] doesn't have a reference for the above statement. Maybe once we find a recent source documenting the most widespread belief, we could better understand the situation, and place them in the best group, or maybe even place a note beside them. Regards, -- ] 22:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC) | |||
::Gegen, I read the article cited and was surprised that the quote you have was not sourced. It is beyond question that the Society of Friends was founded upon the belief in Jesus Christ. Professing a creed is hardly required to be labeled a Chrristian relgion; if so Jesus and all of the early apostles would be found to be outside of Christianity (creeds were created later). | |||
::More than anything Quakers believe in being led by the Spirit and that nothing is more important than that personal revelation. Today, the Society may, in certain areas, have grown away from Christ, but that information should be legitimately documented before stated. Simply stating that one is not a part of the larger, orthtodox groups does not equate to being non-Christian. Great thoughts. ] ] 22:53, 2 November 2006 (UTC) | |||
:::Yes, the theological freedom of the Quakers makes things difficult- the Quakers do not label themselves as that goes against on of the 'core principles' of Quakerism. I am in New Zealand, so obviously my thoughts regarding it are influenced by the Quakers in New Zealand (Quakerism is often very localised) and on their home page on the 'who we are' page they define themselves as: | |||
"It is Christian in origin and inspiration, but is open to ideas and values from other forms of religious expression." | |||
http://www.quaker.org.nz/whoweare/whoweare.htm | |||
But as I've said, Baha'i is Islamic in origin and inspiration, the difference being that some Quakers will say that they are Christians, while no Baha'i will claim that they are Muslims. It's difficult and it comes back to 'what makes a Christian?'. I'm by no means an expert, but I'd say the death and ressurection of Jesus is probably the central thing that binds all the Christian sects together, from the Orthodox to the Catholics to the Protestants. The Quakers don't necessarily belive in the death and ressurection of Jesus, or they may offer a very different interpretation which could be symbolic, allegory or even gnostic or mystic.- ] | |||
:That's why we need ] for what is the most widespread belief among Quakers. The question of what is an independent religion is a subtle point. The Baha'i Faith came out of a Islamic milieu, but has significantly different practices and beliefs, including a new prophet/founder (which is sacrilegious to most Muslims who believe Muhammad to be the Seal of the Prophets) which is based on some eschatological prophecies in Islam and Christianity. I would state that that is more like Christianity coming out of a Judaic milieu. -- ] 23:23, 2 November 2006 (UTC) | |||
::And that's the problem- there is no way to do that accurately as Quakers place so much emphasis on personal interpretation, the inner light, Quakerism isn't like other religious groups in that the basic creed is that there is no creed. However, taking a quick look at the Quaker websites included in the Quaker Article (Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand), the British site says that the Quakerism is 'rooted in Christianity' and 'centre their faith on Jesus', the Australian site doesn't specifically mention Christianity- if they defined themselves as Christians surely they would say so?, New Zealand says that is it Christian in 'Origin and Inspiration' and the Canadian site doesn't make any specific statement about whether or not they are Christian, but reading through there site there is little mention of Christianity at all, even when talking about the history of Quakerism! But as I've said, this can't be taken as authoritive, and these websites may not even represent the general consensus of the Quakers in their country, but one thing does seem to be fairly clear- the majority do not claim to be Christian, however they do say that they take inspiration from Christianity (like Christians take inspiration from Judaism). I still say the Quakers should be moved to the 'Other' section- ] |
Latest revision as of 07:52, 20 July 2024
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What about UFO Religions?
There is probably a good reason why they aren't included, but what is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.107.64.61 (talk) 03:39, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Order of religious groups and naming
There appears to be a lack of a neutral system that forms the basis of how elements are named and listed here. Date, founder, origins should be applied consistently as to be neutral to all entities on the list. It need to be done from a rather neutral point of view and with a consistency. Wikidās ॐ 07:52, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
African Traditional Religions
While I realize the pages themselves are not all well done, in fact, many are mere stubs, they should still be listed here.
From the African traditional religion page:
West Africa
- Akan mythology (Ghana)
- Ashanti mythology (Ghana)
- Dahomey (Fon) mythology
- Efik mythology (Nigeria, Cameroon)
- Igbo mythology (Nigeria, Cameroon)
- Isoko mythology (Nigeria)
- Yoruba mythology (Nigeria, Benin)
Central Africa
- Bushongo mythology (Congo)
- Bambuti (Pygmy) mythology (Congo)
- Lugbara mythology (Congo)
East Africa
- Akamba mythology (East Kenya)
- Dinka mythology (Sudan)
- Lotuko mythology (Sudan)
- Masai mythology (Kenya, Tanzania)
Southern Africa
- Khoikhoi mythology
- Lozi mythology (Zambia)
- Tumbuka mythology (Malawi)
- Zulu mythology (South Africa)
- IanCheesman (talk) 20:04, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
- You left off Northern Africa
- Northern Africa
- Ancient Egyptian religion (Egypt, Sudan)
- Punic religion (Tunisia, Algeria, Libya)
- Traditional Berber religion (Morocco (including Western Sahara), Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Mauritania, Mali, Niger, Chad, Burkina Faso)
- Hausa animism (Sudan)
- Doremon764 (talk) 19:00, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
Quick Problem...
I just noticed that there is some repetition on the list. You might wanna take a took at it. Thanks. Malomaboy06 (talk) 22:01, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Pastafarianism
I said it on the Talk:List_of_fictional_religions and I'll say it again: where is Pastafarianism?:
- I don't think Pastafarianism classes as a fictional religion. While it has a certain notability on this List of fictional religions page, on the official website it is neither explicitly stated nor implied that the religion is a parody, joke or fictional religion. Naming it as 'fictional' due to the subjective absurdity of a Flying Spaghetti Monster cannot satisfy the neuturality of wikipedia. As with one of the foremost comments, all religion is 'ficitional' by even the most lax of criteria. Thus, Pastafarian should be considered for removal, perhaps to a page on 'Minor religions'?
- Oliverbeatson (talk) 01:29, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
I hereby request its inclusion on this list of religions. Oliverbeatson (not logged in) 149.254.218.181 (talk) 00:55, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- That's an alias for The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, which is in the list now. Rursus dixit. (bork!) 14:24, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Section merge
Should the "Historical polytheism" section be merged into "Indigenous traditional religions"? I vote yes.--Editor2020 (talk) 21:47, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Discordianism
A post in http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:List_of_religions/Archive_4#Discordianism claims that Discordianism is not a mock religion, and that its believers take it seriously. Greg Hill and Kerry Thornley clearly intended it as a parody. Robert Anton Wilson (a.k.a Mordicai the Foul) asked, Is Discordianism a religion disguised as a joke, or a joke disguised as a religion? Whichever way you interpret it, it's still a joke and any true believers are the punchline. Discordianism needs to be moved to Parody Religions. --Elmyr (talk) 14:38, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
- Salvador Dali once said that to produce modern art you had to make sure the viewer couldn't tell whether you were producing serious art or just having a joke at their expense. And that you yourself couldn't tell, either. Peter jackson (talk) 11:28, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
- Discordism is real, and there is a Discordian Humanism that is different from Discordianism. It is a more modernized version for modern times, and updated, and believes in equal rights for all. Check out Reddit at /r/discordianhumanism and /r/discordianism for more information and to find articles to cite for your research. Enemies of Eris Discordia and Discordians mock us by saying our religion is a joke, etc. It is a form of oppression from the other religions. Eris Blastar (talk) 02:10, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
Confucianism - Legalism
Are Confucianism and Legalism religions?118.168.26.57 (talk) 04:57, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Christianity section
There has been some to-and-fro about where non-RC Western brands of Catholicism belong. I think what we actually might want to do is let List of Christian denominations do its job, and have what's here be just the top level or two of that. Tb (talk) 18:34, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
- Your latest revision appears to be an acceptable compromise. I would like to comment however on what to do with Anglicanism. In some respects I agree with it remaining in the Catholic section as it's spiritual tradition is Catholic. But it's spiritual tradition is also Protestant. I've known Anglicans that put themselves in one or the other or sometimes both camps. Since you're Anglican, perhaps you know which group it fits better in, but my opinion on a somewhat unbiased level is that it belongs in it's own category. My personal POV is that they are Protestant, but that's coming from a Roman Catholic. Stylteralmaldo (talk) 19:01, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
- It's not really true to say that its spiritual tradition is Protestant; in fact it simply lands in both camps. The position in List of Christian denominations has been to use a "filter" rule, where each group is listed under the first heading that it matches (since there are many groups with multiple sensible categorizations) and to take "Catholicism" specifically as involving a claim of continuity with the pre-schism Church based on apostolic succession of bishops--which is essentially the only definition which makes the term refer to more than only the RCC, or every church. The RC notion that it must be Protestant is based upon the fact that it used to be much more strongly identified as such, and a general RC idea that whatever is not RC must be Protestant. Once we all become aware of the Old Catholics, for example, not to mention the Orthodox, the "not-RC equals Protestant" thinking tends to fall. Tb (talk) 20:46, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
- In any case, it has been discussed at various times at List of Christian denominations, with varying changes in consensus over time. My view here is that this page should simply mirror that one. Tb (talk) 20:47, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Spiritual Traditions
Is there any hope that the various "Spiritual Traditions" can be separated from "Religions" on the basis of religions being curriculum based, i.e based on agreed written rules and principles), while spiritual traditions (voudou, rastafarianism, and obeah, for example) are folk-based with no written or recorded methodology? They're not really related. Santamoly (talk) 21:10, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
- I think this is tendentious. There is a continuum between; it seems odd in the extreme to say they are not related. Tb (talk) 17:54, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
- It's not in the least tendentious. The one is an organized, repeatable curriculum of instruction with written academic texts and workbooks with the aim of propagating a uniform result. The other is a folk-based belief, inconsistent and variable from one village to the next. That is a big difference. If you think otherwise, can you give us some insight into your reasoning? Perhaps you are thinking that Religion and Faith are the same (they're not), or that Tradition and Faith are the same (they, also, are not)? Santamoly (talk) 05:56, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
- I'm saying that any definition under which Greco-Roman religion is not religion is incorrect. Christianity did not become a religion sometime in the sixteenth century ("academic texts and workbooks"? When do you think workbooks were invented?). Hinduism is unquestionably a religion--or a cluster of religious traditions--as is Shinto, and yet, they are not "curriculum based" in any plausible sense. Tb (talk) 17:30, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
- You're bouncing all over the place. What, pray, is a "Greco-Roman religion"? And what do you think Christianity was before printed Bibles existed? How can you say that "Hinduism is a religion" in one breath, and then a "cluster of traditions" in the next? Doesn't that support my suggestion? Santamoly (talk) 05:53, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
- Your suggest cannot even make sense of the concept of "folk religion". The Romans--who invented the word "religion", by the way--had a pagan religion, which did not involve any of your invented requirements for a religion. Can we find a source which makes the distinction you are arguing for, please? Tb (talk) 17:13, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
- Tb is correct. "Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that establishes symbols that relate humanity to spirituality and moral values." That is the definition of religion from our very own religion page. Nowhere does it say that a religion needs to be curriculum based. Basically what you are saying is that only the Abrahamic religions are proper religions. This is biased and not acceptable on Misplaced Pages. Canada10wi (talk) 19:56, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
- Your suggest cannot even make sense of the concept of "folk religion". The Romans--who invented the word "religion", by the way--had a pagan religion, which did not involve any of your invented requirements for a religion. Can we find a source which makes the distinction you are arguing for, please? Tb (talk) 17:13, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
- You're bouncing all over the place. What, pray, is a "Greco-Roman religion"? And what do you think Christianity was before printed Bibles existed? How can you say that "Hinduism is a religion" in one breath, and then a "cluster of traditions" in the next? Doesn't that support my suggestion? Santamoly (talk) 05:53, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
- I'm saying that any definition under which Greco-Roman religion is not religion is incorrect. Christianity did not become a religion sometime in the sixteenth century ("academic texts and workbooks"? When do you think workbooks were invented?). Hinduism is unquestionably a religion--or a cluster of religious traditions--as is Shinto, and yet, they are not "curriculum based" in any plausible sense. Tb (talk) 17:30, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
- It's not in the least tendentious. The one is an organized, repeatable curriculum of instruction with written academic texts and workbooks with the aim of propagating a uniform result. The other is a folk-based belief, inconsistent and variable from one village to the next. That is a big difference. If you think otherwise, can you give us some insight into your reasoning? Perhaps you are thinking that Religion and Faith are the same (they're not), or that Tradition and Faith are the same (they, also, are not)? Santamoly (talk) 05:56, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Scientology
According to the wikipedia article at http://en.wikipedia.org/Scientology#Dispute_of_religion_status it is recognized as a religion by the United States government. I realize that there is dispute about whether it is a religion, but if some consider it a religion, perhaps it could be added with a notation that it is disputed. Nightkey (talk) 17:59, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Parody or mock religions
There are many more than can be added to start off you can add The Church Of Emacs, a "church" named after the Emacs text editor And the Cult Of Vi named after the Vi text editor see http://en.wikipedia.org/Editor_war#Humour
note: I am sorry if I have done something wrong. Other than this I have only once ever edited a Misplaced Pages page
- I'm thinking the whole section could be cut as neither a religion nor a spiritual practice if these seem just some form of humor (Church of Trek) or comment of strongly held view conflicts on the level of 'religious wars' (DOS vs Unix wars). Do need to be careful as there are nontheistic religions and nontheistic spiritual beliefs, to where have Atheists or Jedism that seems not a religion but is officially recognized in some countries as such and able to conduct marriages and other functions associated to more common religions. And have some obviously mainstream religions that have do not form by a building -- traveling ministry, cafe church or internet church or pub church) but are definately holding a particular spitirual belief or spiritual seekers versus non-spiritual critic or vandal or humorist.. Markbassett (talk) 00:04, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
Greek/Roman Mythology?
Where it be at, broski? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.156.121.1 (talk) 01:22, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
- Greek and Roman religions still exist to this day, but are mocked and insulted by other religions in refusing to acknowledge that they are real, and that they deserve mention. When we try to get articles about them on Religion lists, it gets deleted by intolerant people who claim they are 'joke religions' and 'not real' and 'everyone who followed them is now dead'. But I challenge you to look at all of the statues in federal court buildings. They are from the greek and roman myths that our laws and type of government 'republic' are based upon. Lady Justice is one example, Liberty (goddess) for another. Eris for example represents 'change', 'evolution', and 'progress' because without discord and chaos you would just have the same thing over and over again. Eris Blastar (talk) 02:19, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
"Ancient Greek Religion" and "Religion in ancient Rome" are listed are listed under "Historical religions". "Hellenism" and "Italo-roman neopaganism" are listed under "New religious movements" - "Modern Paganism" - "Ethnic neopaganism". DubleH (talk) 10:26, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
Christian Science is not New Thought
Christian Science should be removed from under New Thought, it is a forerunner to the movement, but is its self not part of it. Or maybe the headline could read, "Christian Science and New Thought" ? Anthony maybury (talk) 13:02, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Use of the term "mythology"
My congratulations to the author(s) for this very comprehensive list. I don't understand, though, why the term "mythology" (with its negative connotations) has been used to label any of the religions. It also seems inappropriate that virtually all of the "Indigenous traditional religions" (and virtually none of the religions in the other categories) use this term. Thank you for your consideration. --ContentOfTheirCharacter (talk) 03:12, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
- Please read Mythology, especially the section "Terminology". Academia does not use it with any negative connotation, it simply refers to collections of stories that have a sacred value to a particular community. In many cases, there simply isn't an "-ism" name for certain groups of beliefs (indeed, some scholars have come to question if attempting to view many culture's spiritual beliefs as "-isms" is not ultimately a western attempt to force other spiritual beliefs into a model resembling the Abrahamic religions). Ian.thomson (talk) 03:48, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi - I agree that "myth" is a neutral term meaning "story". But the general perception of the term is negative - and conveys the message that this religion is either "ancient" and has been superseded by a "true" religion or that this religion has been discredited. All religions are a collection of "stories": creation stories, founder stories, stories about the acts of the major personalities. Also, all religions include codes of conduct and philosophies and values - which are not stories (although they may use stories to illustrate these concepts). Many religions include assertions - about the afterlife, about what the deity/deities expects of us, etc - these are not stories either (although they may use stories to explain how to attain the rewards of the afterlife). So, while calling a belief system a "mythology" is defensible based on the dictionary definition of mythology, I suspect that if we told a devote Jew, Christian, Muslim, etc that his world view was "the Jewish mythology", "the Christian mythology", or "the Muslim mythology" then I think he would be shocked (and offended) at our terminology. Thus, I think that removing the term would take away the negative connotation (without in any way diminishing the quality of the article). ContentOfTheirCharacter (talk) 04:19, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
- Over 80% of Americans support mandatory labels on foods containing DNA -- DNA being the base component for non-virus life (and thus all food) on earth. I bring this up to partially illustrate why we only care what academic sources mean and not common perception. Also, we already have articles on Christian mythology, Islamic mythology, and Jewish mythology. C.S. Lewis (the guy who wrote Narnia, and pretty into writing about a traditional but otherwise universal Christianity) described Jesus as a myth that was also true -- in other words one of the more popular theologians of the 20th century used "myth" to refer to a religion's sacred story for which the true/false value is independent of it being a myth. Ian.thomson (talk) 13:11, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for your thoughts on this. I'm not certain (and I certainly mean no disrespect) that the 2 examples you raise are relevant to this situation. I can't comment on the DNA point because I haven't heard of this labeling outcry (I totally agree that any such label would be ludicrous). As to the other articles about Christian / Jewish / Islamic mythology: first they are different articles than this one (and so not relevant to how THIS article is written - ie, we can't "average" the 2 articles to somehow make Misplaced Pages right on an "overall" basis), and second those articles DON'T say "Christianity is mythical but Buddhism is a religion" - whereas this article DOES say "Christianity is a religion but this indigenous traditional belief is a myth". So my concern isn't so much in the use (or not use) of the word "myth", it is in the selective use of the word "myth". Now, let me add a new twist into our discussion (which I am enjoying and I appreciate your participation in it). I am an atheist - with absolutely no faith in any religion. I believe that EVERY religion is mythical (and in this context I AM using the popular meaning of "myth" as a false belief). I am not at all against the application of the word "myth" to the indigenous traditional religions - I totally agree with that characterization. My argument is that "myth" shouldn't be applied selectively to some religions but not to others. They are ALL mythical - but they ALL have some people who devotedly believe them (however wrong I believe those people's beliefs to be). So, to be absolutely clear, my point is that either the word "religion" should be applied to ALL of these belief systems, or the word "mythology" should be applied to ALL of these belief systems - because ALL of these belief systems have equal status (or equal validity - or equal lack of validity). If we apply the word "religion" (or the suffix "-ism") to some of them and we apply the word "mythology" (or even "folk religion") to others, then we are overlaying our personal Point Of View by selecting which belief system gets this word and which belief system gets that word. ContentOfTheirCharacter (talk) 03:55, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
- The most obvious thing to me is that if the article that's being linked does not use "mythology" then it is editorial bias to use "mythology" in this list. BashBrannigan (talk) 01:47, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
I agree, Bash, that this is a good criteria. I would consider using the neutral term "belief system" for every religion. This would even be appropriate for atheism and agnosticism. (If these latter two are not included, then "faith" would also be an acceptable neutral term.)ContentOfTheirCharacter (talk) 03:16, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
- Our practice of not using Misplaced Pages as a reliable source for content verification is long standing and editorially sound. We therefor should not consider what an article says, to determine the neutrality of our verbiage nor as a tool for verification. Instead, we should continue using independent reliable sources that readers can use to verify the accuracy and neutrality of the information our articles convey.--John Cline (talk) 12:35, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
Hi John. I’m not certain I correctly understand your meaning: “We … should not consider what an article says to determine neutrality nor … for verification. We should independent reliable sources to verify the accuracy and neutrality …” If I do understand your intent then Misplaced Pages shouldn’t be considered reliable (or neutral) – it should only pique our interest and provide a really good bibliography so everyone can do their own research. I’m having a hard time coming to grips with that. I have found many excellent articles on Misplaced Pages. Even the article we’re discussing seems to me a very thorough list of the many religious beliefs in the world. I’ve read very informative articles on physics, history, and biology. I hate to think that the authors of all those articles (or the author of this article) had no intention of either accuracy or neutrality when they created their articles. I hate to think that all the people who give their time and knowledge to reviewing and improving articles have no intention of either accuracy or neutrality. And I don't believe that all the people who refer to Misplaced Pages for information have no expectation of either accuracy or neutrality. I believe an article should be as accurate, and as neutral, as possible. (And I'm certain that this is also the intent of the authors.) And that its accuracy and neutrality can be judged ONLY by what it says. Again, if I misconstrued your intended meaning, I apologize for that – and please do me the favour of correcting my misunderstanding. ContentOfTheirCharacter (talk) 21:27, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
- Thank you for requesting these clarifications. It is entirely my error which unintentionally introduced the ambiguities of my previous comment. That you found understanding at all speaks well of your "power of reason". To achieve a thoroughly accurate understanding, as you have done, speaks remarkably well of the total person who edits Misplaced Pages as ContentOfTheirCharacter. I am glad that we met here today; that I've been blessed once again in my life – undeserving; once again.
- I meant to imply that we rightfully do not use one Misplaced Pages article as a reliable source for verification of some other Misplaced Pages article's content. You are absolutely correct that we invariably must "consider what an article says" to determine how well it adheres to the same areas of required compliance. It is true that "Misplaced Pages is not a reliable source"; a fact that should not cause a measure of lament. The informative articles you mentioned having read are the collaborative results of thoughtful editors who deserve admiration for the selfless service they voluntarily gave. I did not mean to cast any aspersions, or to suggest a nefarious thing, and I am sorry that sentiments like that were minced in my prose. I hope I have clarified this matter well enough, and ask that you tell me if anything else needs to be done to remove any "ill effects" that remain, or to restore the peace that was known; or the confidence lost as a result of the comment posted by me. Thank you.--John Cline (talk) 02:09, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
Hi John - thanks for your clarification, and your kind words. Believe me, I never had any ill feelings. I also enjoy having these sorts of discussions with people such as yourself who put a lot of thought into questions of this nature and are willing to share and articulate their ideas.
As I look back over the entire thread of this conversation and all its participants (Ian.thomson, BashBrannigan, and now you as well) I remind myself that the initial comment I made was that in a list of the many religions of the world, I felt that it was not appropriate that many of those were labeled as "religions" - and that some were labeled as "mythology". And I noted that virtually all and virtually only the "Indigenous Traditional Religions" were called "mythologies".
Although several (interesting and enjoyable) tangents from this original concern have been travelled, I still feel that this gives an unnecessary bias to the list. I think that if the word "religion" or "belief" or "faith" (or even the word "mythology") was applied equally to each of the entries in the list (ie, EVERY entry in the list had the same label), then the article would be better balanced and more respectful of all belief systems - and this change would not at all diminish the quality of the article or the amount of information conveyed.
Best regards ContentOfTheirCharacter (talk) 03:09, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
Why is Scientology not listed here.....???
It has a significant population — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.38.105.161 (talk) 23:57, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
So many?
So if I believe in one of them... does that mean I'm against the believe of the other 4,199 religions in the world?
Ājīvika
Ājīvika, which was just added, is
- primarily a philosophical tradition, in which case, I wonder if it should be listed here at all, or alternatively
- according to the article on the subject, most closely related to the Hindu tradition, in which case it should be categorized there? Clean Copy 19:17, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
A section about fictional religions ?
Could we create a new section about the fictional religions ? They are numerous in fantasy and SF. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB08:173:6400:7014:445A:3F21:E15C (talk) 10:31, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
- The religions listed would need to be notable, such as the ones at Category:Fictional religions. However, I worry that if we add such as section, it's going to get stuffed with unsourced and non-notable WP:FANCRUFT. Ian.thomson (talk) 10:59, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
- Since List of fictional religions exists, there is no need to expand this list. I have added the fictional relion list to the See also section. BiologicalMe (talk) 16:28, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Bön Religion
I am not sure if the Bön religion should be listed as Buddhist, it does in fact have some connections with modern day Tibetan Buddhism however the Bön religion was in Tibet first, and is very different to Buddhism. AZoroastrianMan (talk) 00:48, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Johnson cult is mis-classified by its own Misplaced Pages entry.
On the List of "cargo cult" religions, the Johnson cult is listed. However, when visiting its Misplaced Pages page the first sentence is "The Johnson cult, formerly misidentified as a cargo cult". It also does not fit the description of a cargo cult, or of a religion necessarily. Someone with a broader understanding of this article should revise this.
22:09, 6 September 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.16.207.15 (talk)
References
Polytheistic Reconstructionism
Shouldn't the reconstructed polytheistic religions be under the religions on whose basis the polytheistic religions were reconstructed? Danishjaveed (talk) 11:42, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
Eastern Religions
Should we combine East Asian religions and Indic religions under the Umbrella term Eastern religions, similarly to how Iranian and Abrahamic religions are under Middle Eastern religions? Doremon764 (talk) 05:25, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
European Religions?
A new section on European religions has been added, most of these religion are from the ethnic religious, new religious movement, or Historical religions. Just wondering. Doremon764 (talk) 22:06, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
the very small religon of walsisisum
walsisisum is the least known religon that is only celebrated by 7 people tops. a very small organization only as of today put on the internet where there leader puts out videos to its few followers and nobody knows there in on it like a cult almost. the belief is that the world was created by a powerful god who used the last of his power to create everything us the earth and the universe. and then slowly gets turned into the form of what we now know of as the walrus. he also wanted the people to be friends with the walrus not to kill and hunt them like they did. they where supposed to watch the humans and keep them in order. this is a dying religion if you are looking for one please consider this one also if you would please make it known to the world I did the best I could. how would I know so mutch about this cause I am the leader — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.247.150.59 (talk) 00:41, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
Where does it end though? I can easily get my 7 best friends to agree to a religion and start making videos. This whole article seems to be chock full of narcissism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexandermoir (talk • contribs) 11:39, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
New Age movement or Occult
On the New Religious movement section that contains Gaianism, Mayanism, Michael Teachings should it be under Occultism or New Age movements Doremon764 (talk) 05:52, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
Dudeism Classification
LTA sock, see Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Filipz123. --Blablubbs|talk 19:59, 10 June 2021 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Now, i don't want to be like some of the other people on here advocating for the silly religions that exist and trying to get their classification changed by playing dumb, but I really think it might be worth it to consider my request. But like, I understand if it doesn't, man. So right now, Dudeism is classified as a Mock religion or a religion based on fiction. Allow me to address why i think both of these may be untrue. First if all, it is obviously not a mock religion because it is not mocking anything. It's not like pastafarianism that obviously mocks Christianity. It's based off of Taoism, but with a modern view of it and without the metaphysical shit and what have you. It's not trying to mock Taoism, as the religion itself is promoting it. Secondly, I definitely see how it is considered to be based upon fiction, but I would like to talk about how I believe it is untrue. Obviously, it was inspired by the fictional movie "The Big Lebowski," but I think it's less based on that, and instead uses it as a vessel to explain a very, very ancient form of thinking in a modern way. The religion itself says this on the website and such. Basically, the religion is not about the Big Lebowski, that way I see it, it's about Stoicism, Daoism and really just going with the flow and being in the moment, and it uses the carefree character from that movie as a model to how one should go about their life. So, that's my opinion. I can add sources to some of my claims if anyone wants. I think maybe whoever is able to edit this might want to look into it more for themselves, and hopefully consider moving it to the Other section or the neo-thought section or something. Thanks for reading and take it easy. Abider445 (talk) 23:24, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
Yeah. Well. You know, that's just, like, your opinion, man. Reverted. — Chrisahn (talk) 16:36, 10 June 2021 (UTC) |
The website used as the first source in this Misplaced Pages article has now been repurposed as a loan broker website.
Should we use the last web archive available instead? ScratchyGamer314 (talk) 13:06, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
Discussion on "Reverting each other, Indo-European, etc"
There is a discussion on Template talk:Religion topics#Reverting each other, Indo-European, etc, about the naming of Indo-European category, the separation of North Africa and Sub Saharan Africa, and should religions of Asia be cluster together under an Asia banner. I mention this Edit War here since it may affect this page at some point with similar concepts just discussed on that chart.Doremon764 (talk) 05:37, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
New Age is not Middle Eastern
Asking for the removal/move of New Age and putting it in New Religious Movement instead of Middle Eastern category. Doremon764 (talk) 16:09, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
- Go ahead. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 18:12, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
This article is a disaster
It should be rewritten with sources or deleted. Many contents seem to be inventions. For instance, Platonism is currently listed under "Fiona Temple" (which probably does not exist), itself listed under New Age. The Benedictines are themselves listed under New Age. Is this article serious or a joke?--37.162.128.86 (talk) 13:58, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
I don’t understand what I am
No 2601:702:4300:A960:0:0:0:1849 (talk) 23:45, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
Religions
M 105.245.103.245 (talk) 13:42, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
New age listing
Someone added a lot of things to the New Age section with the note: "Note: All New Age groups are listed in random order. Please organize this." I may get back around to dealing with this but if I don't, this is a notice for anyone who would like to. Gilded Snail (talk) 15:34, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
- Did it in alphabetical order. That okay? --Roundish ⋆tc) 16:49, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
Earthseed
As a member of the Earthseed family and vocal advocate for such, I added that and Terasem as a subset of it under Post-theistic and Naturalistic Theologies. There's already articles on Misplaced Pages for both Earthseed and the Terasem Movement, and I even included a reference to Earthseed's central website as evidence that it is not entirely fictional. I am an Earthseed shaper and there's enough of us to demand inclusion on this very long list of religions and spiritual traditions. Exaltist Ethan (talk) 01:29, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
WP:CRYSTALBALL
The last sentence of the first paragraph currently states:
"According to some estimates, there are roughly 4,200 religions which at some point in the future will be countless."
I wonder whether the last portion of this sentence should be deleted per WP:CRYSTALBALL. I find it entirely plausible that a future trend of major religions absorbing numerous smaller ones could emerge, but who knows, I don't have a crystal ball. Ypna (talk) 21:04, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
- Agreed. Countless implies infinite to me. There may well be a lot more religions in the future but they will likely still be countable. Relinus (talk) 23:13, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
- Ok, given that I'm not alone in this thinking, I've removed the latter part of the sentence from the article. Ypna (talk) 00:09, 23 September 2023 (UTC) Done
Historical Religions
There are listing of historical religions under (historical) listed twice some under a different category. Should they be listed under both or should all historical religions be under historical religion section. Doremon764 (talk) 08:41, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
- Imo all historical religions should be exclusively listed in historical religions. It was a while ago, but I was reading through the talk pages and there seems to be an established precedent that religions should only be listed once even if you could argue they'd fit under multiple categories. GastonN'estPasBon (talk) 16:08, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
East Asian Religions
I've been thinking about this for a while now so I'll put the question out there for discussion. Currently all East Asian/Southeast Asian religions are put under the world religion category which defines world religion as trans cultural and international. Most East Asian religions can not be argued to be transcultural or international. While Shintoism, Confucianism, Taoism and the like could be considered transcultural and international most of the other religions listed clearly are not (at least not to any significant degree). Vietnamese and Chinese folk religion is almost exclusively practiced by Vietnamese and Chinese people respectively.
One solution would be to partition the East Asian religions. Put the transcultural and international ones in world religions and put the rest as ethnic religions. This feels like the obvious solution, but there are issues with it. These East Asian religions still maintain a distinctly ethnic character, even Confucianism and Taoism, and could be described as a gray area between world religions and ethnic religions. There is also something to be said about how integral the local ethnic faiths are to Confucianism and Taoism. Putting these faiths on different sides of the article ignores the syncretic nature of all these East Asian faiths, they quite clearly constitute a single family of faiths that have influenced each other for over 2000 years.
Yet putting them in one category or the other is also problematic. Putting them all as ethnic religions dismisses the global character of, especially, Taoism and Confucianism. Yet putting them as world religions feels equally problematic as some of the East Asian faiths are literally called folk religion.
Ultimately I think seperating them is the best idea and one I'd be fine to do myself if the rest of you agree, but I want to make sure there's input before I do anything like this. GastonN'estPasBon (talk) 16:24, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
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