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* RM, War in Donbas → War in Donbas (2014–2022), '''Moved''', 5 June 2022, ]
* RM, War in Donbas (2014–2022) → War in Donbas, '''Moved''', 17 October 2023, ]
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== Infobox end date ==

What's the precedent for a war being subsumed by another war? When there's a battle, there's start and end dates, and you can implicitly tell its part of a larger war, but titling an article "War in <location>" and having an end date in that infobox seems to suggest the "war" ended, when it didn't actually end, that phase of the war was eclipsed by the much larger invasion. Also, I don't think the "Major combat operations phase ended on 20 February 2015" is very relevant, there was sporadic levels of fighting all throughout 2014-2022. ] (]) 19:25, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

:The solution is straightforward: remove the end date and specify that the conflict was followed by the Russian invasion. ] (]) 14:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

::Great idea: I don't know why the "subsumed" thing was totally removed from the article, as if nothing of particular importance happened in 2022. And as for the conflict subsumption: the recent examples include the various ethnic conflicts in Myanmar (Karen , Kachin etc) being subsumed by a all-country Civil war with a new major and largely non-ethnic actor People's Defence Forces. Similar thing happened to ethnic conflicts in Sudan with the inception of 2023 Civil war. These conflicts didn't end, but their context changed markedly. ] (]) 12:32, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
:::I've changed it again to keep the end date but include the explanatory note that the term "War in Donbas" generally only covers events up to the start of the invasion. I've also removed "Major combat operations phase ended", as this seems redundant now. &lt;/]&gt; &lt;] /&gt;&lt;] /&gt; 13:04, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 October 2024 ==

{{edit extended-protected|War in Donbas|answered=yes}}

<!-- State UNAMBIGUOUSLY your suggested changes below this line, preferably in a "change X to Y" format. Other editors need to know what to add or remove. Blank edit requests will be declined. -->
Add something like "pro goverment partisans" to the ukranian side on the "units involved" list in the infobox.
<ref>https://www.5.ua/86/v-okupovanykh-raionakh-donbasu-rozhortaietsia-ukrainskyi-partyzanskyi-rukh-rnbo-63891.html ; https://www.5.ua/86/na-lyganshini-chastishaut-boj-teroristiv-mij-sobou-i-z-partizanami-66591.html; https://novynarnia.com/2020/09/07/volodymyr-zhemchugov/ ; Ukranian Language wikipedia on the subject of resistance during the conflict talks about this aswel but i cant copy the link here for some reason.</ref>
<!-- Write your request ABOVE this line and do not remove the tildes and curly brackets below. -->
: This are Ukrainian sources and they attribute it to a government entity (RNBO), a member of Rada and a member of Aidar battalion. Considering that almost 10 years have passed since then, I'd suggest to look for a confirmation in more reliable and less biased sources.

: Also I would suggest adding information to the article itself first and if it becomes apparent that it was happening on a large scale it can be added to the infobox. ]<sub>]</sub> 20:10, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

== Borodai in the lede ==

I'm not sure his words about 50k Russian citizens are lede-worthy. Borodai, as a direct participant, is essentially a primary source and Euromaidan simply repeats his assertions without any analysis.

The topic itself - how many Russian citizens participated in the war is important and I'm not against discussing it in the lede. However we should provide a summary of high-quality secondary sources. We have quite a few of them already. ]<sub>]</sub> 22:54, 19 December 2024 (UTC)


== Composed in large part of Russian citizens ==
== A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion ==
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* ]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2019-02-01T14:53:44.416710 | Flag of the Ghost Brigade.svg -->
Participate in the deletion discussion at the ]. —] (]) 14:53, 1 February 2019 (UTC)


@], @], regarding source request , this p. 154 says ''In reality, the conflict was fought between, on one side, Ukrainian-speaking and Russian-speaking ethnic Ukrainian and ethnic Russian Ukrainians having national allegiance to Ukraine against, on the opposing side, a minority of Ukrainians with massive Kremlin support having primary allegiance to Russia (Kuzio, 2020, pp. 106–133)''.
== “the” ==


p. 119 '' It cannot be true, as Sakwa (2017a) writes, that Russia sought to extricate itself from the Donbas at the same time as it built up a huge army and military arsenal controlled by GRU (Russian military intelligence) officers and 5,000 Russian occupation troops based in the DNR and LNR. '' ] (]) 01:33, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
Please decide whether it is “Donbass” or “the Donbass” and either always omit or always use the article. ] (]) 11:37, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
::English usage is not consistent in this matter. See , though these are from before the war. I think the general trend is to omit the article, though. ] — ] 16:01, 15 February 2019 (UTC)


:The article now makes a very specific claim, that the forces that seized government buildings {{tquote|composed in large part of Russian citizens crossing the border into Ukraine}}. I wouldn't be too surprised if it were true, but the sources you've brought up here make ''different'' claims. They talk about the conflict in general rather than about the initial unrest. They also don't say anything about the Russian citizens being ''a large part'' of the separatist forces, whether in the beginning or subsequently. ]<sub>]</sub> 20:13, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
::: Looks like the most common usage has been “the Donbas.” , , , . Another comparison: , , , .&nbsp;''—]&nbsp;]&nbsp;<small>2019-05-31&nbsp;13:50&nbsp;z</small>''


== References to TASS ==
== Belligerents versus suppliers in infobox ==


This article has several references to ], also cited as “Information Telegraph Agency of Russia,” a biased source that’s unacceptable. TASS may be acceptable for direct quotations of the Kremlin, but not about any facts or events in Ukraine, including statements by Russian militants with whom the Kremlin obscured its true relationship. These should be tagged as unreliable, removed, and replaced with reliable sources. ] (]) 17:17, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
No reference showing UK is a belligerent. There's no way that supplying weapons to a belligerent in a conflict makes a country a belligerent. "Support" is a different category altogether. Am ] removing flags from infobox including with citations showing weapons supplies. If you want to add "support" to the infobox, then it needs a separate section, not a sub-heading under "Belligerents"; but note that section would not be in keeping with Misplaced Pages norms. -] (]) 06:14, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
:Specific phrases please? ] (]) 17:23, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:In Misplaced Pages conflict infoboxes we regularly include "support" countries as a sub-heading under "Belligerents". Just a few ongoing examples are the Syrian and Libyan civil wars. Countries only providing weapons support and not being directly involved have also been listed in the infoboxes of many past conflicts. ] (]) 01:38, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
:But U.S. Secretary confirmed weapon supplies exactly for this conflict. It is support of Ukraine in conflict. Source: https://www.state.gov/secretary-michael-r-pompeo-with-michal-higdon-of-wcsc-tv/ "U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo: We gave them real weapons, where they could fight against the Russians" --] (]) 07:13, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 17:23, 4 January 2025

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Section sizes
Section size for War in Donbas (53 sections)
Section name Byte
count
Section
total
(Top) 29,560 29,560
Background 6,861 11,134
Protests 4,273 4,273
Proxy war 2,974 143,603
Militants seize towns 3,014 18,551
Sloviansk 5,281 5,281
Kramatorsk 1,561 1,561
Horlivka 3,636 3,636
Other settlements 5,059 5,059
Government counter-offensive: "the Anti-Terrorist Operation" 28,347 28,347
May 2014: post-referendum fighting 13,125 17,009
Airport battle and fighting in Luhansk 3,884 3,884
Escalation in May and June 2014 1,502 23,283
Luhansk border post siege 1,453 1,453
2 June Luhansk airstrike 2,929 2,929
Continued fighting 4,233 4,233
Russian tank incursion 7,154 7,154
Ilyushin Il-76 shoot-down 1,190 1,190
Battle of Yampil 4,822 4,822
July 2014: post-ceasefire government offensive 12,158 12,158
Fighting worsens in eastern Donetsk Oblast 4,768 4,768
Downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 4,308 4,308
Government push into Donetsk and Luhansk cities 32,205 32,205
Open war between Russia and Ukraine 131 128,659
August 2014 invasion by Russian forces 26,812 26,812
September 2014 ceasefire 13,327 13,327
November 2014 separatist elections and aftermath 10,978 10,978
Escalation in January 2015 18,428 18,428
Minsk II ceasefire and denouement 13,387 13,387
January 2017 eruption of heavy fighting and failed ceasefires 22,005 22,005
October 2019 Steinmeier formula agreement and July 2020 ceasefire 7,592 7,592
2021–2022 escalation 14,191 14,191
2022 full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine 1,808 1,808
Combatants 18 26,455
List of combatants 157 157
Russian involvement 24,350 24,350
Military aid to Ukraine 1,930 1,930
Casualties 728 11,841
Civilians 1,929 1,929
Ukrainian forces 1,553 1,553
Separatist forces 7,631 7,631
Humanitarian concerns 8,446 14,624
Displaced population 6,178 6,178
Reactions 16 19,434
Ukrainian public opinion 4,916 4,916
Russia 1,605 1,605
International reactions 413 413
Labelling of the conflict 12,484 12,484
See also 263 263
Notes 26 26
References 30 30
Further reading 661 661
External links 1,992 1,992
Total 388,282 388,282
International Coalition in support of Ukraine was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 11 February 2018 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into War in Donbas. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.
Text and/or other creative content from this version of War in Donbass was copied or moved into Frozen conflict with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

  • RM, War in Donbas → War in Donbas (2014–2022), Moved, 5 June 2022, discussion
  • RM, War in Donbas (2014–2022) → War in Donbas, Moved, 17 October 2023, discussion


Infobox end date

What's the precedent for a war being subsumed by another war? When there's a battle, there's start and end dates, and you can implicitly tell its part of a larger war, but titling an article "War in <location>" and having an end date in that infobox seems to suggest the "war" ended, when it didn't actually end, that phase of the war was eclipsed by the much larger invasion. Also, I don't think the "Major combat operations phase ended on 20 February 2015" is very relevant, there was sporadic levels of fighting all throughout 2014-2022. MarkiPoli (talk) 19:25, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

The solution is straightforward: remove the end date and specify that the conflict was followed by the Russian invasion. EpicAdventurer (talk) 14:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
Great idea: I don't know why the "subsumed" thing was totally removed from the article, as if nothing of particular importance happened in 2022. And as for the conflict subsumption: the recent examples include the various ethnic conflicts in Myanmar (Karen , Kachin etc) being subsumed by a all-country Civil war with a new major and largely non-ethnic actor People's Defence Forces. Similar thing happened to ethnic conflicts in Sudan with the inception of 2023 Civil war. These conflicts didn't end, but their context changed markedly. Gorgedweller (talk) 12:32, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
I've changed it again to keep the end date but include the explanatory note that the term "War in Donbas" generally only covers events up to the start of the invasion. I've also removed "Major combat operations phase ended", as this seems redundant now. </MarkiPoli> <talk /><cont /> 13:04, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 October 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add something like "pro goverment partisans" to the ukranian side on the "units involved" list in the infobox.

This are Ukrainian sources and they attribute it to a government entity (RNBO), a member of Rada and a member of Aidar battalion. Considering that almost 10 years have passed since then, I'd suggest to look for a confirmation in more reliable and less biased sources.
Also I would suggest adding information to the article itself first and if it becomes apparent that it was happening on a large scale it can be added to the infobox. Alaexis¿question? 20:10, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Borodai in the lede

I'm not sure his words about 50k Russian citizens are lede-worthy. Borodai, as a direct participant, is essentially a primary source and Euromaidan simply repeats his assertions without any analysis.

The topic itself - how many Russian citizens participated in the war is important and I'm not against discussing it in the lede. However we should provide a summary of high-quality secondary sources. We have quite a few of them already. Alaexis¿question? 22:54, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Composed in large part of Russian citizens

@Alaexis, @Nihlus1, regarding source request , this The Palgrave Handbook of Contemporary Geopolitics - Google Books p. 154 says In reality, the conflict was fought between, on one side, Ukrainian-speaking and Russian-speaking ethnic Ukrainian and ethnic Russian Ukrainians having national allegiance to Ukraine against, on the opposing side, a minority of Ukrainians with massive Kremlin support having primary allegiance to Russia (Kuzio, 2020, pp. 106–133).

Crisis in Russian Studies? Nationalism (Imperialism), Racism and War – E-International Relations p. 119 It cannot be true, as Sakwa (2017a) writes, that Russia sought to extricate itself from the Donbas at the same time as it built up a huge army and military arsenal controlled by GRU (Russian military intelligence) officers and 5,000 Russian occupation troops based in the DNR and LNR. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 01:33, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

The article now makes a very specific claim, that the forces that seized government buildings composed in large part of Russian citizens crossing the border into Ukraine. I wouldn't be too surprised if it were true, but the sources you've brought up here make different claims. They talk about the conflict in general rather than about the initial unrest. They also don't say anything about the Russian citizens being a large part of the separatist forces, whether in the beginning or subsequently. Alaexis¿question? 20:13, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

References to TASS

This article has several references to WP:TASS, also cited as “Information Telegraph Agency of Russia,” a biased source that’s unacceptable. TASS may be acceptable for direct quotations of the Kremlin, but not about any facts or events in Ukraine, including statements by Russian militants with whom the Kremlin obscured its true relationship. These should be tagged as unreliable, removed, and replaced with reliable sources. 142.160.96.197 (talk) 17:17, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Specific phrases please? ManyAreasExpert (talk) 17:23, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
  1. https://www.5.ua/86/v-okupovanykh-raionakh-donbasu-rozhortaietsia-ukrainskyi-partyzanskyi-rukh-rnbo-63891.html ; https://www.5.ua/86/na-lyganshini-chastishaut-boj-teroristiv-mij-sobou-i-z-partizanami-66591.html; https://novynarnia.com/2020/09/07/volodymyr-zhemchugov/ ; Ukranian Language wikipedia on the subject of resistance during the conflict talks about this aswel but i cant copy the link here for some reason.
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