Misplaced Pages

User talk:Valjean: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 18:41, 31 December 2006 editQuackGuru (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users79,978 edits List of articles related to quackery← Previous edit Latest revision as of 00:47, 18 December 2024 edit undoDaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers24,737 edits Happy First Edit Day! 
Line 1: Line 1:
'''{{NOINDEX|visible=yes}}'''
{| class="infobox" width="300px"
<br>
|-
]
!align="center"|]<br/>]
{{Ct/aware|ap|cc|ps}}
----
{{skip to top and bottom}}
|-
{{clear}}
|
</div>
* ]
{{Press
* ]
| subject2 = article
* ]
| author2 = Ashe Schow
|}<!--Template:Archivebox-->
| title2 = Misplaced Pages founder advocates for updating policies following 'The Hunting Ground' controversy
]
| org2 = '']''
| url2 = https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wikipedia-founder-advocates-for-updating-policies-following-the-hunting-ground-controversy
| date2 = November 25, 2015
| quote2 = Another editor, whose username is BullRangifer, suggested Misplaced Pages not become "a kangaroo court or lynching" by rushing to ban accounts who break COI. BullRangifer suggested following seven steps to determine whether "The Hunting Ground" crew member should be banned and whether his edits should be removed. Some of the steps included how he handled questions related to his edits and whether he stuck to discussion pages to ask for edits rather than making them himself.
| accessdate2 = February 8, 2020
| subject3 = article
| author3 = Marcus Gilmer
| title3 = Misplaced Pages demotes Breitbart to fake news
| org3 = ]
| url3 = https://mashable.com/article/wikipedia-breitbart-ban-fake-news/
| date3 = October 3, 2018
| quote3 = Support. If anything, it's even more unreliable than the Daily Mail, as they at least use trained journalists, whereas Breitbart is a fringe propaganda organization which lets its extreme partisan bias get in the way of how it reports things, and whether it does so, just as Fox News does. It too should be deprecated, but let's start with Breitbart (and InfoWars). — BullRangifer 17:51, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
| accessdate3 = October 5, 2018
| subject4 = article
| author4 = Alexander Hall
| title4 = Report: Misplaced Pages Editors Censoring Evidence Supporting Michael Flynn
| org4 = ]
| url4 = https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/techwatch/alexander-hall/2020/08/13/report-wikipedia-editors-censoring-evidence-supporting
| date4 = August 13, 2020
| quote4 = Liberal user Valjean responded by condemning this revelation as 'conspiracy theories' and 'part of a cover-up,' even 'when it comes from the now-sitting government of the USA.' Valjean specified that 'Nothing coming from Trump's Justice Department, FBI, CIA, anything, can be trusted.' Breitbart alleged that Valjean, formerly under the name 'BullRangifer' has been 'previously involved in slanting articles about the Russia investigation.'
| accessdate4 = August 15, 2020
| subject5 = article
| author5 = Raymond Sturman
| title5 = Top 5 Editing Conflicts in Misplaced Pages Pages on Religion
| org5 = World Religion News
| url5 = https://www.worldreligionnews.com/wikipedia/top-5-editing-conflicts-in-wikipedia-pages-on-religion/
| date5 = October 23, 2024
| quote5 = Located on the Catholic Church Misplaced Pages talk page, the screenshot below details a recent discussion of the tension between the Roman Catholic Church and other branches of Catholicism. Editor 'Valjean' is protesting that the word 'Roman' has been removed from the title, arguing that there are other branches of Catholicism, while the Roman Catholic Church says it is the real Catholic Church.
| accessdate5 = October 24, 2024
}}{{clear}}
<!-- {{semi-retired|Some may have noticed that my activity level isn't anywhere near what it used to be. Well, being a Misplaced Pages editor is just not that much fun anymore.


Wikilawyering has become a fine art that's exploited by partisan POV pushers and, predominantly right-wing, paid political whitewashers (the Koch brothers control many articles), and NPOV is pretty much impossible to maintain on such articles. It's not worth the effort (which is more like a battle), so a lot of the time I now avoid such conflict zones.
== Looks Great! ==


Fixing commas and grammar is pretty uncontroversial. It's a shame that talent, knowledge and experience are wasted. Experienced editors get burned out, and there is not an endless supply of such editors, so Misplaced Pages is bleeding. Until the community does something to rectify this situation, it will lose out on such talent and the editing pool will become more and more dominated by political hacks and amateur jerks.}} -->
I think looks great! I like the subheadings. I tweaked one edit and heading. See what you think, but I think it was pretty thorough without shouting too much;) --] 01:22, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
{{clear}}
{{Talk header |bottom= |custom_header=Welcome to Valjean's talk page! ]] |wp= |display_title= |arpol= |sc1= |sc2= |sc3= |sc4= |sc5= |demospace= |hide_find_sources= |search_term1= |search_term2= |search-domain= |noarchive= |search= }}
{{clear}}
{{left|1=]}}
{{TOC left}}
{{User:Valjean/Negotiation table}}{{User:Valjean/Graham}}
{{clear}}


== Mail ==
== ] ==


{{You’ve got mail}} ] (]) 23:33, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
Hi -- I reverted your deletion of my "unsourced" comment; I had included an online which can sometimes be easy to overlook. I think it should be included in the article in the interests of NPOV.


== Administrators' newsletter – September 2024 ==
You may want to take a look at the ] starting with Brad Patrick's cutting it back to a stub in August. You can also look at the links I included on the article talk page to comments on Brad's talk page, etc.


] from the past month (August 2024).
You'll see I had a hard time getting the article unprotected temporarily to allow expansion from stub status. This is apparently a hot potato article within Misplaced Pages.


<div style="display: flex; flex-wrap: wrap">
I suggest deleting about half of the stuff you added. Otherwise, it's possible this article will get stubbed back to what I thought was a pro-PWU stub. This is especially likely in light of the school's claim, so far not disputed in the press, that it finds no record Einfield ever received a degree from PWU.
<div style="flex: 1 0 20em">
--] 20:06, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


] '''Administrator changes'''
: I have replied to the issue of my mistaken deletion
:] ]


] '''Interface administrator changes'''
: As far as the rest, why would the article be stubbed back because of my additions? Aren't they properly sourced? I use the same source as you do -- The Australian. There are no doubt some issues on this article. Please explain more. -- ] 20:43, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
:] ]


</div>
::To anwer your question (and spare writing a page or two here) I think if you review the talk page, you'll understand my concern, though you may still question whether it's well-founded or not. Also, take a look at the article's history and see the version that existed just prior to Brad's intervention. It was pretty encyclopedic, which raises the question of why it was pruned back so far (including deletion of any mention of PWU's lack of accreditation).
<div style="flex: 1 0 20em">


]
::It took many hours of editing and lobbying to get what there was when my draft article text was finally by JesseW. It's not that I'm asserting ownership here -- just concerned that what's been a ccomplished so far will get undone and sent back to a stub again.--] 21:05, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


] '''Oversighter changes'''
== Straight ==
:] ]


] '''CheckUser changes'''
Thanks for your explanation of "straight" in the context of chiropractors, simply using the word "foundational" in brackets afterwards would explain it.
:] {{hlist|class=inline
|]
|]
}}


</div>
On another subject, osteopaths also have a technique called "SAT", an abbreviation of Specific Adjustment Technique, developed by a UK osteopath as mentioned here and taught in a school in England - probably not significant enough to warrant an article on its own, but mentioning it as a note in the Spinal adjustment article could change the whole thrust of the argument that use of the word "adjustment" is particular to chiropractic. --] 06:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
</div>


] '''Guideline and policy news'''
: Good point. If others consistently use the term that way, then it could also be mentioned. There is far more similarity between European osteopathy (alternative woo-woo) and all chiropractic, than between American osteopathy (real doctors) and chiropractic. -- ] 07:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
* Following an ], there is a new ]: ], which {{tq|applies to unused maintenance categories, such as empty dated maintenance categories for dates in the past}}.
* A ] is open to discuss whether ] should be adopted as a ].


] '''Arbitration'''
::Good cleanup of Osteopathic medicine. --] 13:26, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
* Following a ], ] (the topic and interaction bans on ], respectively) were repealed.
* ] of the ] ("{{noping|Cinderella157}} German history topic ban") was ] for a period of six months.
* The arbitration case ] is currently open. Proposed decision is expected by 3 September 2024 for this case.


] '''Miscellaneous'''
::: Thanks. Chiropractic has had their own category for a long time, and I have long known that osteopathy needed its own category, so now I decided to do it. If you can add to it please do so, and if I have made any errors, please correct them. -- ] 13:45, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
* Editors can now enter into ], an alternative for informal '']'' arrangements, to have a ] reviewed in return for reviewing a different editor's nomination.
* A ] is happening in September 2024 to reduce the number of unreviewed articles and redirects in the ]. Currently, there is a backlog of over 13,900 articles and 26,200 redirects awaiting review. ]


----
== How much? ==
{{center|{{flatlist|
* ]
* ]
* ]
}}}}
<!--
-->{{center|1=<small>Sent by ] (]) 18:45, 2 September 2024 (UTC)</small>}}
<!-- Message sent by User:DreamRimmer@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_newsletter/Subscribe&oldid=1242830842 -->


== ''The Signpost'': 4 September 2024 ==
Just curious about your thoughts on what constitutes "significant". Is "one in 500,000" significant? Where do you draw the line? One in a million, ten million? What is your opinion? Cheers. --] 20:25, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-09-04}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 12--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 13:24, 4 September 2024 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div>
: Thanks for asking. In what context is the word being used? -- ] 20:34, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
<!-- Message sent by User:JPxG@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe&oldid=1243735654 -->


== That was kind of sweet ==
::Any context.--] 20:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


''""'' ] (]) 07:14, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::: You must be thinking of something. The context determines which of many definitions and understandings govern the situation. In scientific research it has one precise meaning, in practical life it has many others. To illustrate...."notability" can be understood in the Misplaced Pages sense, or in some other sense, maybe related to notoriety. An unknown person with a small "incident" can, by making a big deal out of hiding that little "incident," draw so much attention to themselves that they become notorious and thereby notable (in a negative way!).
: Ah! The ] situation. I have forgotten most of it, so had to look again. I hope she feels justice was finally done here. I still believe we should allow mention of the controversy over Misplaced Pages's failure. We normally do it as it's clearly notable enough for mention. Our added failure to even mention it is a clear case of censorship to protect Misplaced Pages's reputation, and that's just wrong. In one breath we have a policy that says Misplaced Pages is ], and in the next we actually censor it for the worst possible reason. That example makes me ashamed to be a wikipedian. Consensus can be wrong.
: What is that Twitter moment she mentions? Do you have info on that or a link to a tweet? https://x.com/emilymandel -- ] (]) (PING me) 18:36, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::My reading is when she tweeted "Interview me please!" and ''Slate'' said "". ] (]) 19:47, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::: That makes sense. It worked. -- ] (]) (PING me) 20:59, 10 September 2024 (UTC)


== Tim Ferriss ==
::: Let me know what sense of "significant" you are contemplating. If it's something I have written, then it will be easier to explain, and I will try! -- ] 20:54, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


Hi Valjean, I'm working to update ]'s page with details about his philanthropic work in the field of psychedelic research. I see that you're a member of ], so I hope that you will consider implementing my ]. I would love your help. Thank you! ] (]) 14:55, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::::I am just curious at what point you personally find something (anything) significant. As you said above, it can have different meanings. Personally, I don't worry about stuff that is unlikely to happen (ie. small chance). If you look at what people (generally) worry about (statistically), it's things that are the least likely to happen. Also, how can someone "hide" a small, insignificant "incident"? Wouldn't it's insignificance mean it has little bearing, thus hiding would be incorrect? Perhaps its more like dismissing the small chance as not worth mentioning. IOW why get worked up over something that isn't likely to happen?--] 21:39, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


== Notification ==
Hugh, I feel I can speak openly with you. You and Dematt have been cooperative and sought to create a collaborative atmosphere here, and I appreciate that. I assume we are likely talking about the current topic being discussed on the ] and ] articles' talk pages, IOW the risks involved with upper cervical manipulative therapy.


See ]. ] (]) 18:43, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
First I'd like you to read some of what I have collected on the subject. The title of the blog entry is rather sensational, but I didn't originate it, and it is linked to from so many places that I can't change it without changing the URL, and that's a big no no on the internet. It came from an Irish television program that was the basis for the beginnings of that entry. It developed larger and larger as I added to it, and I haven't added anything more in a long time, although there is much more. After you have read it, you will hopefully understand my POV better. Then you can ask me more specific questions. I don't like dealing in hypotheticals, since they are all so "if"ish.


== Destiny (streamer) revert ==
My perceptions of this matter have been strongly influenced by many encounters with patients injured by chiropractors, and then further study of the issues. I'm well aware that all professions "injure" patients at times, so I haven't let that weigh too strongly against chiropractic. The thing that is different is the extreme degree of denial I find in the chiropractic literature, discussion groups, and websites. That part is unusual, in contrast to the medical profession and other healthcare professions where injuries are registered, discussed, analyzed, and pro-active measures are taken (often too slowly, but it happens).


@]Can you elaborate on why Fox News is not credible but other outlets are? Destiny made very extreme remarks regarding the Trump assassination attempt as clearly stated in a Piers Morgan: Uncensored episode. Are you suggesting I include the YouTube video as a source as well? {{User:Brenr/signature/raw|17:09, September 21, 2024 (UTC)}} {{User:Brenr/signature/raw|17:09, September 21, 2024 (UTC)}} 17:09, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
Another factor that strongly influences my thinking is the under-reporting problem. It is vast, and denialism only makes it worse. -- ] 21:59, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
:@] I've adjusted the source to YouTube. Let's not revert that. I can find additional sources so it's incompliance with Misplaced Pages's standards. {{User:Brenr/signature/raw|17:14, September 21, 2024 (UTC)}}
:: Why do you even ask such a question? Are you unaware of the extreme biases of Fox News and how it broadcasts falsehoods and deception all the time? We limit its use, especially regarding BLP assertions. If Destiny is really far-left, then there will be multiple mainstream RS that say so. The article already includes multiple descriptions of Destiny's political views. Your YouTube primary source isn't good either. It doesn't even describe him as far-left. You need multiple mainstream, secondary, RS that say it. This is BLP stuff, so we're very careful and delete immediately until better sourcing is provided. -- ] (]) (PING me) 17:23, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
:::A YouTube video '''is''' an original source, which is sufficient. A valid source doesn't need to be one that is from a publisher with a pundit who describes him as extreme. He has demonstrated that by his own words, which is absolutely sufficient as a source. Also, where are you getting this idea that left-wing media outlets would publish articles claiming Destiny is far left when the outlets themselves have a left leaning? {{User:Brenr/signature/raw|17:30, September 21, 2024 (UTC)}}
:::: YouTube is a primary source we are cautious about using, especially for BLP claims. I use it to back up what RS already say. That's a legitimate use of primary sources. That he might express views that are typically far-left isn't good enough. That's our own POV about what he says. We need secondary RS that expressly say it. If it's that difficult to find such sources, then it doesn't belong in the article. BTW, I have no previous knowledge of either Destiny or Tim Pool. I don't usually listen to podcasts or YouTube channels for such content. I use YouTube for music, and YouTube Premium is well worth the cost. You can read about ]. I occasionally hear an episode of ] because my wife shares it with me. She likes him, and he doesn't rant and rave. He seems clearly left-wing and progressive, and not far-left. -- ] (]) (PING me) 17:49, 21 September 2024 (UTC)


== Tim Ferriss - Career section ==
:I just was wondering at what point you consider something significant. But if you wish to take it in this direction...have you considered that the incidence of CVA following cSMT occures to the same magnitude as that occuring in the general population? Or that the average DC would have to perfom 30 cSMT's per day (48 wks/yr) for 50 years to see one case of stroke related to cSMT (Triano, J, Kawchuk, G, Current Concepts: Spinal manipulation and Cervical Arterial Incident, NCMIC 2006; Chap 8:56). Your website states that consideration should be taken 30 days (or longer) from the last cSMT??? Have you considered Haldeman's findings, that the majority (70%) of cSMT induced CVA's have ''immediate'' symptoms? Or that persons having ongoing symptoms of a dissection would seek the help from a cSMT provider? Why is this info not on your website? It would paint a balanced picture at least. And yet you consider underreporting to be a major problem...wouldn't 30 days lead to overreporting? Lastly, have you considered that the criteria for attributing causation (Bradford-Hill) have NOT been met for cSMT and vascular injury? --] 23:12, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


Hi Valjean, Thanks so much for you help on ]'s page. Would you be willing to look at the ] I posted about adding to the Career section? I would really appreciate it. Thank you! ] (]) 14:37, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
:: I don't pretend to do an exhaustive study of the subject. It's just a collection of resources. The reason for the 30 day thing is that even if some minor symptoms occur at the time of the treatment, a clot can buildup and dislodge some days later. There is also the matter of repeated cSMT increasing the risk, IOW repeated small injuries finally resulting in a bloodclot. Overreporting is a virtual impossibility, considering the underreporting rate of known cases found by Ernst, et al. The criteria for attributing causation are obviously incomplete and therefore pretty irrelevant to the proven cases of immediate reactions on the treatment table leading to stroke and/or death. Some are dead, others have lived to tell about it. We're still learning about this problem, and our knowledge is quite incomplete. Gotta run now. -- ] 05:53, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
: {{Done}}. -- ] (]) (PING me) 15:15, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you so much! ] (]) 15:16, 24 September 2024 (UTC)


== A cup of tea for you! ==
==True Believer Syndrome Article==
Fyslee, regarding your edits on ], please provide the referenced material to support your edits. Needless to say, I can't find any referenced material to support your edits as qualifying as examples of ''"true believer syndrome"''. If you can reference material that states that believing in crop circles, etc., are examples of ''"true believer syndrome"'', then feel free to re-add it with references. Otherwise, you are interpreting the term to suit your POV. ] <sup>]-]</sup> 19:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
: I did not put that material in the article, I just reverted your POV deletions of excellent examples. If you are a believer in those things, then instead of deleting them, you might be able to learn something from the article. -- ] 19:26, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | thank you for undoing my edit to ]! I didn't realize it was a quote and will be more careful next time :) ] (] • ]) 04:10, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
|}
: You're very welcome, and thank you. -- ] (]) (PING me) 04:19, 25 September 2024 (UTC)


== ''The Signpost'': 26 September 2024 ==
Fyslee, the response I gave above was in reply to your comment: ''"then provide the refs, rather than destroy the article"''. If you think my deletions were POV, you always have the opportunity to reinclude the ''"excellent examples"'' with referenced sources. Problem solved. ] <sup>]-]</sup> 16:32, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-09-26}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 13--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 20:07, 26 September 2024 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div>
== Medicare ==
<!-- Message sent by User:JPxG@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe&oldid=1247736176 -->


== A cup of coffee for you! ==
After reading the medicare report you left on the SA page, I looked into this. Thought you might be interested. --] 03:28, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
: It looks like you're right, PT's may also have a problem, or maybe medicare doesn't understand what either of us do. . Don't you think it is interesting the way they put the chiropractic one first even though it wasn't the worst? --] 03:43, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Keep seeing your diligent work on ] pop up on my watchlist. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 22:20, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
|}
: Thanks! So nice to have you back. -- ] (]) (PING me) 22:33, 27 September 2024 (UTC)


== Tim Ferriss - additional updates ==
:: Here are the stats of Medicare claim error (which is actually a measure of how much billing mistakes are costing taxpayers):


Hi Valjean, You have been so helpful on ]'s page. I added one more edit request to the Talk page with ideas for the Early life and Personal life sections as well as the lead. I would love it if you would take a look - ]. I'm grateful for your assistance. Thank you! ] (]) 15:16, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
::* Chiropractors (11.3%)
::* Physical therapists (18.2%)
::* Internists (13.5%)


== Administrators' newsletter – October 2024 ==
:: IOW, PTs have the highest rate or error and this also indicates that they have the highest rate of improper claims filed. Definitely interesting reading. ] 05:00, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


] from the past month (September 2024).
::: Yes, it's interesting. I'll try and look into this later. -- ] 06:29, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


]
Okay, now I'm home from work and have a bit of time before my daughter's 14th birthday party for a few girlfriends.


] '''Administrator changes'''
I don't understand exactly how Medicare works since I've been in Denmark the last 23 years. It looks like these physicians ("doctor of medicine, osteopathy, optometry, or podiatric medicine") are screwing up their billing in many ways. Not a good thing. Some is no doubt because of sloppiness or laziness, but some of it looks extremely suspicious. It appears that many different professions can render "physical therapy" services, which I find odd:
:] {{hlist|class=inline
|]
|]
}}
:] {{hlist|class=inline
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
}}


] '''CheckUser changes'''
: Of the 32 physicians we interviewed, 24 told us that their staff render some or all of the physical therapy for which they bill Medicare. According to these physicians, therapy in their offices is rendered by:
:] {{hlist|class=inline
|]
|]
}}
:] {{hlist|class=inline
|]
|]
}}


] '''Guideline and policy news'''
:* podiatrists,
*] are a proposed new process for selecting administrators, offering an alternative to ] (RfA). The first trial election will take place in October 2024, with ] from October 8 to 14, a ] from October 22 to 24, and ] from October 25 to 31. For questions or to help out, please visit the talk page at ].
:* chiropractors,
* Following ], the speedy deletion reason "File pages without a corresponding file" has been moved from criterion ] to ]. This does not change what can be speedily deleted.
:* physical therapists,
* A ] is open to discuss whether there is a consensus to have an ] process.
:* physical therapist assistants,
:* massage therapists, and
:* physical therapist aides.


] '''Arbitration'''
: Fourteen of the physicians we interviewed reported that they personally render some or all of the therapy for which they bill; however, we could not verify through Medicare claims data what proportion of the physicians’ physical therapy claims were rendered personally by the physician.
* The arbitration case '']'' has been closed.
* An arbitration case regarding ] has been opened.
* Editors are invited to ''']''' to serve on the 2024 Arbitration Committee Electoral Commission until ''23:59 October 8, 2024 (UTC)''.


] '''Miscellaneous'''
I have no doubt that some PTs are unethical, lazy, or just plain incompetent. In other cases they are in the same boat as chiropractors -- differences in interpretation of rules made by an insurance company that is more interested in money than in the patients' well-being. No matter what's going on, it's good that someone is keeping an eye on the taxpayers' money and on who is misusing it. In this case I don't know if one should consider it odd that chiropractic was listed first, although in some cases there could well be some type of hidden agenda on the part of the journalist. All in all, thanks for the information. -- ] 16:10, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
* If you are interested in stopping spammers, please put ] and ] on your watchlist, and help out when you can.


----
:No problem. I think some of it has to do with confusion on what is "well care" or maintenance and what is medically necessary. Depending on your POV, some may actually think that none of it is necessary as the patient is only looking to feel better, so the reviewer considers it palliative or unnecessary. IOWs, the line between acute and chronic and what our society wants to cover is gray and anywhere there is gray, there is potential for a variety of interpretations that most look see through their POV.
{{center|{{flatlist|
* ]
* ]
* ]
}}}}
<!--
-->{{center|1=<small>Sent by ] (]) 16:01, 2 October 2024 (UTC)</small>}}
<!-- Message sent by User:DreamRimmer@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_newsletter/Subscribe&oldid=1248355798 -->


== ''The Signpost'': 19 October 2024 ==
:This is my wifes B-day, too! Wow, you know your daughter being a Scorpio means she is strong and opinionated! I know my wife is;) Good thing we don't believe that stuff! If she is strong and opinionated I'm sure it comes from her dad! Enjoy your family today and I will too. --] 16:38, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-10-19}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 14--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 11:13, 19 October 2024 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div>
:: Congrats with your wife! I'm not sure if my daughter is strong and opinionated, but she sure is a teenager, and that can be bad enough!
<!-- Message sent by User:JPxG@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe&oldid=1252022219 -->


== Administrators' newsletter – November 2024 ==
:: I think you're right about the wellness care bit. What makes it a problem (in this situation) is that insurance is involved. (Whoever pays your bills or loans you money owns you.) We have the same problem here. We can have a patient where there may not be objective improvement, but where we know from experience with just that patient, that if they don't continue treatment, they get worse, and get worse fast. Such cases are then caught by insurance and judged unnecessary care. That's life. If the patient pays the bill themselves, then there's no problem. Insurance is a necessary evil, but sometimes it's just plain evil, as far as the patient is concerned. -- ] 17:05, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


] from the past month (October 2024).
:::Yep. We have to just keep going. --] 14:49, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


]
== Good edits ==


] '''Administrator changes'''
were good edits that needed to be made, thanks, and you were extremely neutral with them! --] 20:18, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
:] {{hlist|class=inline
|]
}}
:] {{hlist|class=inline
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
}}


] '''CheckUser changes'''
: Thanks! I do try. If you ever find any edits that aren't neutral, don't hesitate to notify me. It can happen, so it's good to have friends who see things with different eyes. -- ] 20:40, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
:] ]


] '''Oversighter changes'''
==I won't be editing ] for awhile due to wikibreak==
:] ]


] '''Guideline and policy news'''
Hi Fyslee. I've gotta set WP aside for awhile. Bad timing given that ] seems to be getting a bit rowdy, but I can't control circumstances IRL. If the article gets out of hand in the meantime, c'est la vie, but to the extent you're able to keep it on your radar screen, I'm sure it will benefit. all the best, ]<sup>(])</sup> 22:40, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
* Following a ], the ] proposal that went for a trial to refine the ] (RfA) process has been discontinued.
* Following a ], ] is adopted as a policy.


] '''Technical news'''
== My entrance at Jimbo Wales ==
* Mass deletions done with the ] tool now have the 'Nuke' tag. This change will make reviewing and analyzing deletions performed with the tool easier. {{phab|T366068}}
(This is regarding repeated and misplaced edits on "molestation" placed on Nov. 17, 2006. -- PL)


] '''Arbitration'''
First of all I appreciate your courtesy
* {{noping|RoySmith}}, {{noping|Barkeep49}} and {{noping|Cyberpower678}} have been appointed to the ] for the ]. {{noping|ThadeusOfNazereth}} and {{noping|Dr vulpes}} are reserve commissioners.
* Eligible editors are invited to self-nominate from 3 November 2024 until 12 November 2024 to stand in the ].
* The Arbitration Committee is ] for roles such as clerks, access to the COI queue, checkuser, and oversight.
] '''Miscellaneous'''
* An ] is happening in November 2024 to reduce the backlog of articles tagged with {{tl|Unreferenced}}. You can help reduce the backlog by adding citations to these articles. ]


----
But a provider with dynamic IPs is changing the No more often. So you do not stick to one Ip Number the complete day.
{{center|{{flatlist|
* ]
* ]
* ]
}}}}
<!--
-->{{center|1=<small>Sent by ] (]) 10:22, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</small>}}
<!-- Message sent by User:DreamRimmer@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_newsletter/Subscribe&oldid=1254686817 -->


== on communication in different societies ==
Kind regards


As a New Yorker, I think the truism or the stereotype of learned experience is a dangerous and powerful thing. Universality can also be a delusion at times, but consider empiricism, a topic I know we both cherish. Many things about the universe are counter-intuitive and sometimes even irrational, like quantum mechanics. Yet we still sometimes harbor the delusion of a Newtonian universe. We also inhabit a ]. ] is a fraught topic. What I mean by all of this abstract stuff is that it's better not to generalize even though obviously different societies are different. For example, in low-content or high-context societies, for example, I recently had the occasion to work with a lot of international folks from the Scandinavian region. There's a bluntness that I can appreciate, very different from say, Japan, where it's expected to imply or skirt around certain things. Yes, Israelis also have their own type of communication and some if it is a stereotype, but how can you argue with one's internalized lived experience? Yet, we must, because it can cause to make generalizations go beyond the scope or local minimum which they apply in. As a New Yorker, I've always seen other New Yorkers put themselves out there to help anyone who needs it, and work together as a city to heal or help communities, yet you would hear the stereotype that New Yorkers aren't "nice." Yet, "Minnesota nice" people will tell you that their pleasantries are passive aggression. What's better?
Olaf Klenke


A writer like ] is reliable. I challenge you to find any errors in his books on Israel and Zionism. Sure, he has a POV, but he's not Dershowitz or Karsh. And there's nothing really that wrong with Karsh either, but he doesn't make any illusion of showing where he's coming from. That doesn't mean he can't be used for facts, since we apparently think it's ok to use an anthropologist, Nadia abu el Haj, on an article about genetics, or we'll use an economist instead of a historian as on the Zionism article. There's a problem on Misplaced Pages in that we have inconsistently applied, in some cases leading to presumed-unintentional cherrypicking, when it comes to a number of issues about international politics. In fact, I would challenge anyone who thinks there aren't many problems with Misplaced Pages's coverage of international politics to actually spend some time thoughtfully compiling a source survey of the top Ivy League or Cambridge/Oxford/Stanford/MIT/and similar caliber academics and how they treat international politics, versus some of the academics that end up getting used on Misplaced Pages but are objectively less pedigreed - maybe not fringe per se, but definitely in a specific niche.


How are you feeling about tonight? I'd say about D 342 is my prediction and a trifecta is looking quite possible if NE-Sen, MT, and/or OH have a D night. House also looks good, as 3 of the R-to-D flips are already priced in by the NYT, and Oracle Pelosi has graced us with her aligning view. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 21:50, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
I am just asking myself who is taking over responsibility for this matter
Normally it cannot be that German Administrators can accuse anonymous


:Apologies for butting in uninvited, but I ended up here by happenstance & felt the need to reply.
So the ones who are working with their vizor are the punished ones.
:On a somewhat cursory glance of his writings, I would not consider Gil Troy a reliable source as he is rather prone to errors.
:In he writes that ''"Israel has been falsely accused of ...withholding vaccines from Palestinians"'' despite that being (He also cites his own opinion article) He also states ''"Israel has no legislation based on race"'' on the pretext that race = ''"appearance, blood, presumed biology or skin color"'', which ignores the social aspect of race as a concept. He then uses this as justification for his later reasoning -
:''"Security-based distinctions may keep Israelis and Palestinians apart but that’s not apartheid, a race-based, skin-color-driven form of legal discrimination."'' (I'm not commenting on if Israel does or does not practice apartheid, only that he does not understand what the word means, thus failing to properly counter the accusation).
:Then, in his book, , he references posters saying “Rape Is Resistance and “Babies Are Occupiers Too… Free Palestine by Any Means Necessary.”, but what he is referencing are obviously fake stickers spread online by an outrage grifter named .
:He does not do his research & he does not care for accuracy.
:Again, apologies for this potential tirade, I'm not outright objecting to your point or mean any offense to you, but I felt the need to point out issues with Gil Troy specifically. ] (]) 00:45, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
{{od}}
My reply to both of you is that I don't know who Troy is and haven't considered him in anything I've said. What I said at the Zionism article was generalities and principles. I have not been active in the Middle East topics area and have no desire to get into that quagmire and quicksand. I suspect it has a lot of tricky aspects, just like the gender and LGBTQ topics, and one can easily offend and be misunderstood. I have seen too many good editors blocked because of it in both areas. I am not an expert and have a lot to learn, so I appreciate all input. Feel free to teach me.


My father and brothers have traveled in those areas, while I have only visited Lebanon for ten days in 1996. We stayed with our new family in Beirut. My wife's nephew met a Christian Lebanese girl in England, and we were invited to the wedding. The food and hospitality were amazing! Super healthy and tasty. We love garlic, so got lots of it. It was a different party and restaurant every night. We chartered a bus for the whole family and toured the country. That was quite the experience. As we got further and further south in the Beqaa Valley, stopping at checkpoint after checkpoint, the signs on buildings got more and more ominous. I was the only American, and I was warned, for good reason, to not let my nationality be known. The signs showed huge caricatures of American soldiers with alligator heads with Arabic babies in their mouths, with lots of blood. At one checkpoint, the driver refused to go any further, with the explanation that we were getting too far into Hezbollah territory and could risk becoming hostages. Yes, it sounded like a good idea to get out of that area! Further south was the area from which Hezbollah shoots their rockets into northern Israel. Every day Israeli jets buzzed Beirut, with loud sonic booms and generally spreading terror, because they would also shoot at targets. We saw on TV a little knoll in the Beqaa Valley that had a Syrian tank on it. An Israeli jet blew it up, and that was just on the other side of the coastal range from where we were. This was very different from peaceful Denmark! It turned out that this was normal for peacetime. There were no active conflicts at the time, so this was just the usual way that Israel treated Lebanon. I would love to visit Israel, but with Lebanon stamped in my passport, that would have been out of the question. -- ] (]) (PING me) 01:48, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
I mean that this a generall problem because by now I am capable to give you a collection of this behaviour.


:I brought up Troy as an example of a reliable Zionist historian since you (Valjean) said that Zionist historians exaggerate. I'm sure that some Zionist historians do, but Troy is reliable. Responding to Butterscotch - is he a friend of yours? - Israel does give vaccines to the Palestinians, Troy's opinion on the appropriateness of the word apartheid is hardly impeaching his credibility, and your example of some kind of outrage grifter doesn't negate the fact that there are very real activists espousing those messages in addition to presumed trolls. Nothing in Buttscotch's thread is any kind of indictment or critique of Troy. Troy happens to be Canadian and is not Israeli. But there are also a number of reliable Israeli historians. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 00:24, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
Is this is the way Mr. Wales wants it ???
::I don't really know @], as I said, I got here by happenstance, more specifically, I misclicked & my curiosity got the best of me.
::The point of how Israel is ''now'' handling vaccines though, is irrelevant considering what/when Troy was referring to, Covid-19, where that was an issue.
::I was not commenting on his opinion of how appropriate the word apartheid was, but rather that he either 1) didn't have the wherewithal to check what the accusation he sought to deny meant, or 2) he purposefully sought to mislead the reader as he repeatedly emphasizes his incorrect understanding of race to dismiss the argument. ''(I'm trying to practice good faith in my analysis of his work, so I'll stick with 1)''.
::My "example of some kind of outrage grifter" is important because the only place I can find of any evidence showing posters or stickers with that message are from a bunch of grifters on twitter who peddle in disinformation. <sub>(If you can find actual protesters saying either “Rape Is Resistance" or “Babies Are Occupiers Too", please let me know so I can condemn them & block them)</sub> It's important because it would show that he doesn't scrutinize or verify his sources. It also didn't help that he didn't actually cite any info for that book, so its contents remain academically useless.
::It's fine for him to be highly opinionated, but his inability to properly fact check his sources to support those opinions leave him as a sub-par writer, especially for such a contentious topic.
::There should be enough ''actually'' academic Zionist scholars to cite anyway, so I don't feel we'd be at much of a loss not using him.
::...''And'', I seem to've typed out another wall of text, sorry for that. Also, apologies to Valjean for having my words clutter your page. ] (]) 01:17, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
:::That's a ridiculous assumption that because you couldn't personally verify something, you believe that is evidence that Troy doesn't fact check his sources and is a sub-par writer. He's an academic and a respected published author and historian. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 01:42, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
::::Well if I can't verify the claim, and he doesn't cite anything, its validity should be considered questionable. He's also an ''American presidential'' historian, not a Zionist historian <sub>(should've brought that up earlier)</sub>, so his academic credentials are unrelated to his activism.
::::Are you going to acknowledge anything else that I wrote? Also, should we take this to a different page as to not further bother Valjean? ] (]) 01:59, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
:::::Actually I'd rather drop it. You haven't made any reasonable arguments. Troy is a historian of Zionism as well as other types of history. If Valjean wants to respond to any of this, he can, or not. I was responding to something Valjean wrote, as far as I know there isn't any editing issue that you and I have to discuss. Valjean is one of my friends here. But I unfortunately found a lot of problems with the recent statement he made on Zionism. I do not think I could find common ground with you on this, and you've done little to disabuse me of that. Troy is reliable, but I also haven't at any time cited anything to him in an article. If I ever do and you revert that, we can discuss it then, until then, I don't think we have anything to discuss further right now. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 03:38, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
{{od}}
I don't mind you holding your conversation here. I'm learning from it! Andre, please explain what problems you found with my comments. I'm sure I can learn more. My opinion there is neither my full POV (whatever the fuck that might be!) nor necessarily well-informed, hence my desire to hear your opinion. (It would also help me to know your background. Jewish?... or use email) I have a pathologically insatiable desire to always be learning, hence my love for editing here and watching '']''. (Feel free to improve my article ].) -- ] (]) (PING me) 05:18, 7 November 2024 (UTC)


:I think it's been a matter of public record on wiki so I don't mind saying that my great-grandparents came to America fleeing the pogroms in the Russian Empire and Eastern Europe. I tend not to agree with my more right-wing family members but most American Jews are quite progressive and believe it's OK to criticize the current right-wing government of Israel and the high civilian death tolls. It's also the case that Hamas uses human shields and puts hostages in civilian areas or with journalists or military installations in hospitals. There are many problematic tropes and misinformation, such as those who accuse Israel of intentionally trying to wipe out the Palestinian population, a population that has only continued to grow, nothing like the Holocaust during which 6 million Jews were killed and the population still hasn't recovered. Arab citizens in Israel can vote, own land, and serve in the parliament. Most of the Jewish population of Israel, only about half of which is European, went there because they had nowhere else to go after persecution in Europe and the Middle East/North African areas that became inhospital and expelled or otherwise persecuted their Jews in the aftermath of 1948. The US did not accept many Jewish refugees in the 1930s and 1940s. That doesn't mean the Palestinian refugees didn't also in many cases get a raw deal and it's fair to criticize the West Bank settlers that often flout international law and exist an extralegal area. Still, on 10/7, Hamas unprovoked invaded Israeli territory attacking and slaughtering civilians. Hezbollah has also been launching rockets into Israel. Israel has a right to defend itself and it has a right to exist within the historical borders that the entire international community voted for and ratified. Believing in that doesn't mean condoning ethnocentrism or ethnically targeted policy. Unfortunately, that was a reality for many places including the United States especially in the 1930s and earlier. There is also a progressive left in Israel and it's a country that has given us many medical and technological advances, not to mention a permissive and tolerant, and democratic culture. The portrayal of the country as a colonial oppressor similar to South Africa is not apt. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 05:36, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
I really do not think so
:: We agree. The whole situation is just so sad. Why can't people get along? Ask Isaac and Ishmael! It started with them, and their descendants are doomed to always be at war. To complicate matters, the state of Israel is also used as a pawn in international political intrigues and is used as a proxy, whether it likes it or not. The specter of ] always hangs over the region. -- ] (]) (PING me) 05:49, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
:::Yes, it's global chess games, and unfortunately there is collateral damage and innocents in the crossfire. All we can do is try to educate and deradicalize people. Sadly, a lot of our current day progressives have forgotten some of the important and hard-won lessons. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 05:54, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
:: On a different topic, what about the '']'' mess? What is to prevent Trump from doing the same and going after any editors here who include anything negative in his articles? We have about two months before our freedoms can get attacked, so we should enjoy this respite. -- ] (]) (PING me) 05:54, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
:::Definitely don't defame anyone onwiki. I agree. It's a worrisome development. But also, I think I'm a 2024 truther. Let's see the final counts and any cured mail-in ballots. Biden wasn't declared winner in 2020 until Saturday. The numbers were so far off from the polls such as the Seltzer poll in Iowa, and DeJoy is still postmaster. Trump always projects and accuses his opponents of what he's guilty of. But you'll notice nobody has mentioned "stopping the steal" or any rigged ballot counts in the last 36 hours. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 05:56, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
:::: Interesting stuff. The election needs to play out and be curated. It needs a complete and thorough ''post mortem''. I have a hard time believing that the Russians, who fully penetrated most electoral systems in most states, didn't use that knowledge to benefit Trump this time around. That makes no sense, so they likely did have a finger or two in the works somewhere. Being as dishonest as he is, I'm always suspicious of him. He would be a failure, by his own standards, if he missed a chance to cheat, and even though he is a huge failure in just about every area of life, cheating is one area where he excels. This was just too "clean". -- ] (]) (PING me) 16:39, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
{{outdent|::::}}Any idea why Ivanka Trump patented a "voting machine" in China in 2018? I've tried to find more info, but I can't. She applied for the patent in 2016, which seems weird. I was just reading Victoria Collier's wild 2012 essay in Harper's. I wonder how many people know that US voting machine companies are owned by Republicans? As late as 2020, NBC News was reporting that many of these machines made by these same companies are not certified by the U.S. Election Assistance Commission even though the companies who sell them falsely claim they are. ] (]) 23:34, 11 November 2024 (UTC)


: ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 01:13, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
== Paul Hartal article ==


== ''The Signpost'': 6 November 2024 ==
The ] article '''does''' cite its sources. Take a look at the first two external links and you will see every fact that is in the article has been verified there. Thus I have removed the sources tag you put on the article. ] 09:33, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-11-06}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 15--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 08:03, 6 November 2024 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div>
: External links provide more information not included in the article and are not considered as real references:
<!-- Message sent by User:JPxG@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe&oldid=1255531917 -->


== Please sign the ] ==
:* "Misplaced Pages articles can often be improved by providing links to web pages outside Misplaced Pages '''which contain information that can't or shouldn't be added to the article.''' These links belong in an External links section near the bottom of the article." - ]


] -- ] (]) (PING me) 18:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
:* "Sites that have been used as references in the creation of an article should be linked to in a references section, '''not an external links section.''' See ] and ] for specific formatting and linking guidelines for citations." (added '''emphasis''' - Fyslee)


==Email==
: Since you are (perfectly appropriately) using them as sources for the article, then they should be included as embedded links (with the appropriate quotes, pages, and URLs) and formatted as real references. This has the added advantage of "upgrading" the links to article content rather than mere external links. This eliminates them from the External links and makes room for other external links so that section doesn't get too long.
I got your email, but I see it's already been dealt with. However, I may consult the blocking administrator about the block. To block such a large range for the specified reason is, in my opinion, highly questionable. Not long ago I was affected by a similar block, but global. I actually had no problem editing English Misplaced Pages, because I'm an administrator, but I was blocked from all other Wikimedia projects, which was very annoying. ] (]) 20:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)


== Article for The Tim Ferriss Show ==
: Right now the article doesn't even have a references section. It is not the duty of readers to search through the contents of external links to verify that the article content is reliable. It is the duty of editors to provide immediately and easily verifiable proof of the reliability of their additions by providing referenced proof right at the spot in the article where it is needed and relevant. -- ] 10:59, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


Hi Valjean, a few months ago you were very helpful to me in making updates to the ] article. Now I'm trying to create an article for Tim's podcast, The Tim Ferriss Show. I'd love it if you could take a look at the draft I have posted ]. Would you consider moving it to main space?


Thank you, ] (]) 14:44, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
== Multiple user IDs of Olaf Klenke ==
This user (Olaf Klenke) edits Misplaced Pages as
* ]
:*


== ''The Signpost'': 18 November 2024 ==
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]


<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-11-18}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 16--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 23:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div>
== Warning ==
<!-- Message sent by User:JPxG@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe&oldid=1258243105 -->
] Olaf Klenke, you have violated Misplaced Pages's ] rule repeatedly, and have not shown any signs of being able to learn from the repeated reversions of your improperly added complaints. I suggest you cease immediately. If you have a problem on the German Misplaced Pages, then take the problem there. This is not the place to deal with it. Misplaced Pages is for editing, not complaining, which seems to be your only mission at present.


== ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message ==
Users with "anonymous IP numbers do not have the same civil rights as logged in members of the community. If you want to be a good editor, ], make good edits." -- ]


<div class="ivmbox " style="margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; background-color: #fdf2d5; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center; ">
To avoid confusion in the future, we invite you to ] of your own. -- ] 13:08, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
<div class="ivmbox-image noresize" style="padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em;">]</div>
(My warning above was placed here by ] 14:47, 20 November 2006
<div class="ivmbox-text">
Hello! Voting in the ''']''' is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on {{#time:l, j F Y|{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2024|end}}-1 day}}. All ''']''' are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.


The ] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the ]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose ], ], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The ] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
Free edits


If you wish to participate in the 2024 election, please review ] and submit your choices on the ''']'''. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. <small>] (]) 00:08, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</small>
Thank you


</div>
It took me over 1 year to dare writing about this problem.
</div>
And as far as I concern it is really necessary to inform Mr. Wales about the blackmailing and molestation accusations which are on purpose put into Misplaced Pages to get a proper google link to destroy my personal reputation.
<!-- Message sent by User:Cyberpower678@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2024/Coordination/MM/01&oldid=1258243333 -->
Who takes responsibility for this behaviour ????


== Administrators' newsletter – December 2024 ==
Kind regards


] from the past month (November 2024).
Olaf Klenke


]
'''PS: My Provider offers a dynamic IP
IPs are changing by the system
I am not rebooting my system to get other IP Numbers'''


] '''Administrator changes'''
What can you do against anonymous administrators who are accusing you in open public.
:] {{hlist|class=inline
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
}}
:] {{hlist|class=inline
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
}}
:] {{hlist|class=inline
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
|]
}}


] '''Interface administrator changes'''
And by the way this behaviour is settled in DE wiki
:] {{hlist|class=inline
They have not heard anything about courtesy at all.
|]
] 14:47, 20 November 2006
|]
}}
:] ]


] '''CheckUser changes'''
: I understand the nature of dynamic IPs, so the solution is to ], since all of our edits, no matter how many IPs are used, still count as yours and can count against you in a 3RR situation. You should also learn how to use Misplaced Pages, starting with always signing your posts on user pages with four tildes like this <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.
:] {{hlist|class=inline
|]
|]
}}


] '''Guideline and policy news'''
: I don't know about your situation. If it's true, and I have no reason to doubt you, it must be terrible, but your behavior here is not going to get you taken seriously or solve the problem. You should contact a German administrator on the German Misplaced Pages. Do it by email, using their email from their user page (there is a link on the left side). See if they can help you. -- ] 14:09, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
* Following ], the ] has been updated. All former administrators may now only regain the tools following a request at the ] within 5 years of their most recent admin action. Previously this applied only to administrators deysopped for inactivity.
* Following a ], a new speedy deletion criterion, ], has been enacted. This applies to template subpages that are no longer used.


] '''Technical news'''
* Technical volunteers can now register for the ], which will take place in Istanbul, Turkey. is open from November 12 to December 10, 2024.


] '''Arbitration'''
Oh no they stick unbelievable close together
* The arbitration case '']'' (formerly titled '']'') has been closed.
Remember how many people in the world are communicating in english.
* An arbitration case titled '']'' has been opened. Evidence submissions in this case will close on 14 December.
Many people no funny things.
Believe me nobody takes over responsibility there.
I tried over one year.
Administrator Markus Schweiß tried really hard.
But now he suffers from the collective administrator ignoration because he tried to mediate in that matter.
Believe me I already have gone trough hell because they indulged their darkest side.
So what can be worst than this.


----
Regards
{{center|{{flatlist|

* ]
Olaf Klenke
* ]
--] 09:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
* ]

}}}}<!--
: Please sign your post properly. I cannot take anything you say seriously when you don't follow simple rules here. -- ] 15:35, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
-->{{center|1=<small>Sent by ] (]) 16:20, 3 December 2024 (UTC)</small>}}

<!-- Message sent by User:DreamRimmer@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_newsletter/Subscribe&oldid=1259680487 -->
Just another short information
because I mentioned my problem at Jimbo Wales page they changed my side and blocked it
Comment you stay out of wikipedia and we put the real facts in again.

This is German Misplaced Pages life
And I liked working here but now I am fed up with this
Misplaced Pages has done no good to me.

But the problem is that I still believe in the idea--] 10:06, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

== No matter how much... ==

We must treat our fellow editors with respect no matter how much they provoke us and no matter how indefensible their assertions may be. Finding the right approach is even harder when the editor is also a subject. Hang in there and keep your cool. Cheers, -] · ] · 08:32, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

== II ==

See my response on my talk. --] 14:36, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

== Image:California State Route 1.jpg ==

I am not sure of the exact point where I took the picture as I was stopping on the road frequently to take pictures. But I am sure this place is near to ] (within 30-45 minutes) and I was driving towards ]. I will try my best to locate the place of the photograph using Google earth. Thanks for your note.

] 22:24, 29 November 2006 (UTC) <sup>\]</sup>

== Neck ==

Uh, okay... I'm not sure why you're telling me about this. There are lots of necks around; go take a better picture of a neck if you don't like that one. &mdash;] ] 16:34, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

==Alternative medicine==
Hey, thanks for pointing out the alternative medicine talk page problem. I'll add the correct link (if I can find it), and no, I haven't received any comments. I'm not Inuit, by the way :) ] 14:13, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

==ABBA and Mariah==
the mariah carey template in the ] article was actually appended to the bottom of ]. it's been removed. ] 20:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

: Thanks! I figured it must be something like that, but just couldn't figure it out. Has the sneaky person who did it been identified? -- ] 20:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

:: no, no culprit has been uncovered -- and i probably won't go looking either. having done a lot of ] work, i've come to the conclusion that counter-vandalism is best served with the mentality of a janitor rather than a cop :) ] 01:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

==Reversion on CSICOP==
I reverted your edits because 1. the article is easier to read with the TOC on the right and there is no reason to change it. There is no "guideline" on placement of TOC and indeed there is the "TOC-right" tag to move them. and 2. There was already a link added earlier today to the name change by Bubba73. Also, the name change is not a "current event" it's a name change. It's not an evolving news story, so I'm going to remove that as well. No offense intended. -] 21:58, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

: There are guidelines, and an article that starts out so different than all others is a shock to the eyes. It's simply not pretty. This isn't an ordinary article or book. It's Misplaced Pages's format. It has taken me awhile to get used to it, and I too was interested in trying to get articles to look like normal articles when I started here, but I learned that standard format is best. My other formatting and alphabetizing edits also got reverted, which wasted a lot of my time, IOW a exercise of bad faith on your part. I would rather we had talked about it privately. Be happy that I'm not a critic like Davkal who constantly tries to find fault. I'm Stephen Barrett's assistant listmaster, and I'm interested in helping, not trolling or destroying. Just another set of eyes to see things with. -- ] 22:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

::I'm sorry, I'm not finding anything about this in the link you gave in your edit summary, I'm either blind or tired, could you please point it out more specifically. There is nothing against using the TOC right in any guidelines I've seen. It has come up for deletion a couple of times but was kept for use at editors' discretion. It's purely a matter of opinion, you don't like the way it looks, I do. Please tell me about where in the page of the linked guideline I can find that info. I don't know who Stephen Barrett is, either, if you would explain that. Also, I assure you I'm not acting in bad faith. You may have missed the link to the name change in the links list. I'm also not seeing the alphabetizing that you said you did. I also don't see what Davkal has to do with this. I also apologize if I seem tired but I have had to deal with nothing but vandals all day. (I'm not implying that you are one obviously not, I'm just explaining why I'm tired.) -] 22:27, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

::I also would like to say I don't appreciated being accused of acting in bad faith. You needn't apologize because I'm sure you genuinely feel that way. -] 22:29, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

::Nor do I understand what you mean by wishing we had "talked about this privately". This is a collaborative, open effort. -] 22:42, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

::: I'm going to apologize anyway. I think it was I who was tired...;-) The changes I made didn't have any serious meaning to me, they were just matters of style, and they aren't worth debating or causing ill feelings. I'm truly sorry about that, so I'll let you form the page as you wish. Your points below are well taken. I guess I can get used to it. -- ] 20:21, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

There is a problem with a couple of your latest edits. Your move of Carl Sagan so that he faces in meets guidelines and looks better. However, now all the pics are on the right, which looks awful, and the same guideline says to stagger them. Maybe you could do that, as well.

Besides that, now the header for Church of Scientology makes it look like it's an upcoming event. That subtitle had already been edited and maybe even discussed. Although you have the right to do so, it's a bit aggravating for someone to show up and make changes that disregard prior efforts. I'm going to change that subtitle back. If you reverse, I won't change it again. -] 22:39, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

== Potential COI issues not applicable ==

Okay, I've looked up ]. Your edits fail ] since he is a fellow of the organization and you work for him. Or am I misinterpreting this? -] 22:44, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

:What exactly is an "assistant listmaster"? You've been editing the article on ] and ] and others that potentially violate ]. I would appreciate an explanation of all of this, surely I am misunderstanding something. -] 22:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

:: Yes, you are misunderstanding somethings about me and the rules. The COI rules can potentially involve many people who edit here, and so they are worded rather carefully. I don't work for anyone but myself, and I have never hidden my identity or POV, unlike some of my antagonists here. Anyone with just a bit of savy can find very detailed information about me right here. I have never met Barrett or talked with him. I have exchanged emails with him a few times over the years, just like you or anyone else can. I am on a discussion list (over 500 members) which he began moderating some time after I had already begun participating. Much later he needed someone to keep an eye on the list over a weekend while he was out of town, so I did it. No big deal. <s>I still do it once in awhile. We don't really "communicate" much about it as he is very busy and therefore rather terse.<s> I rarely post to the list, and currently have over three thousand unread posts on that list, so you can see I'm not very involved. <s>I watch the list a few times a year, and haven't had to do anything for over a year. I just watch to see if trolls start causing too much traffic that disrupts things. That's about it. If they do I have the email address of the guy who hosts the list.<s> Neither Quackwatch or NCAHF host it, since it was started by someone else. I am not a member of any skeptic societies or the NCAHF either. Does exchanging emails with someone, or sharing their interests, or knowing a bit about them from what I can read on the internet, disqualify me? I don't think the COI rules can even remotely be interpreted in that manner. They are not intended to prevent people who really know something about a subject from editing. is something you might find interesting from the rules. If you truly do find something specific that you feel I might be violating, and it certainly could happen, please do alert me to it. I certainly wouldn't want to do it. My edits are subject to the same rules as all other's, and we all need help at times to keep on track, especially on controversial topics like those related to skepticism and quackery. I do appreciate friendly criticism. Now if you will apply the same concerns to those who hold antagonistic POV to Barrett, CSICOP (now CSI), NCAHF, etc., I would appreciate it. There are editors here who do nothing but attempt to libel and desparage him and those organisations. That isn't very Wikipedian, and I am just one of many who seek to ensure that articles are well sourced and not filled with deceptions and lies. As long as we edit properly, there shouldn't be anything wrong with that. -- ] 18:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC) (crossed out old info. ] 21:49, 20 December 2006 (UTC))

Thanks for clearing that up. I am glad that I was correct in thinking I misunderstood. Thanks again. -] 20:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

== Headers ==
Just how I (and a lot of editors) prefer it. ''] ]'', 22:32 ] ] (GMT).

== Thanks ==

Just wanted to drop by a leave a big thanks for your assistance in defending timestamp enforcement for ]! Best, <b>]<sup><font color="#66CC00">(])</font></sup></b> 00:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

== Would appreciate some sort of response ==
Hi, I would appreciate some sort of response to my comments above, especially regarding the potential ]. Thanks. -] 15:21, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

== Heim theory ==

Your edit at my talk page: were you talking to ]? I don't remember providing any link to a consensus. &mdash;&nbsp;] ] &mdash; 15:38, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

: Sorry about the confusion. Yes, I was talking to that user. -- ] 18:03, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

== ] ==

Hi, I saw your recent edits in the page on ]. The reason I removed the links is because all those links are available on the article on ], and as it is, there has been a motion to have the two articles merged. --] 18:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

: That's good, since it was my suggestion....;-) Is it really happening? -- ] 19:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

::That's funny, I wasn't even paying attention :) Sure, we can let it happen. No one else seems to be weighing in. But I have no clue how to do that stuff, so I'll give you the honors :) --] 19:21, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

::: First make sure other involved editors don't object. If they don't, then just make sure all the information is preserved. Any duplicate information can be deleted. Since other editors have probably labored for many hours over specific wordings, be sensitive to those wordings and be careful to not create a POV debate. Discuss your intentions on the talk page. When you have included all you can, just blank the page and leave a redirect. I've done this a number of times, but I have plenty of other things to do right now, so I'll let you do it. I see you've just created the category. Good going. I'm a PT and did the same for the PT category. It's working just fine, and I'm sure yours will too. If you need specific advice, just drop me a note here. -- ] 19:28, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

== Lee Hunter ==

Ugh, he's such a friggin altie loon. --] 00:03, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

: Here's his wife's website: http://www.renaissanceholistic.com/index.html
: If there is ever anything to the old adage about ''guilt by association'', one can only exclaim - No wonder! I do know an exception to the rule. A good friend of mine who is an excellent researcher and skeptic is married to a psychic, and they are still married. I suspect he's good at compartmentalizing. Love can be a powerful force. -- ] 00:10, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

== Doing something about the ridiculous date autoformatting/linking mess ==

Dear Fyslee—you may be interested in putting your name to, or at least commenting on ] to get the developers to create a parallel syntax that separates autoformatting and linking functions. IMV, it would go a long way towards fixing the untidy blueing of trivial chronological items, and would probably calm the nastiness between the anti- and pro-linking factions in the project. The proposal is to retain the existing function, to reduce the risk of objection from pro-linkers. ] 01:03, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

==Sorry about the confusion==
I edited it slightly for clarification. Sorry you thought it might be directed at you. I should be including the diffs. --] 01:09, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

: I figured as much. If her pattern from Usenet gets repeated here, her talk page should be filled with red stop signs every few hours, and multiple archives created within days! This babe's probably the most prolific Usenet poster known, and it's all about her hatred of others! Amazing, and so sad. -- ] 01:13, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

== wow ==

LOL how did you find that cfd so fast?? &mdash;&nbsp;] ] &mdash; 20:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

: Just by chance. It was on my watchlist and I happened to be looking at it right then. I only have "1,118 pages on your watchlist (excluding talk pages)"....;-) -- ] 20:30, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

==Barrett==
I disagree that truth and scientific accuracy mean little in a court of law. The standards for expert witnesses are not easy to meet, and to a large degree depend on what the prevailing medical wisdom is (what if they are wrong?). Secondly, once the experts pass that threshold, a jury then determines which are more believable. That is how it should be in a democracy.

As to Barrett's lawyers - I could not believe my eyes. I don't call that naive. I call that stupid or incompetent or both. A first year law student would flunk basic torts on that argument.] 21:36, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

: Excuse my cynicism regarding the status of truth in courts of law. I guess I'm just one of the public who sees crooks getting off on technicalities too often. It must be frustrating for lawyers too. As far as the legal tactics in these cases, it's pathetic. How about working for Barrett? It would probably be pro bono....;-) You'd have to be doing it as an idealist. -- ] 21:42, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
::''Requiring a plaintiff to prove his case (and not insist that the defendant prove he is not guilty) is not a "technicality"! It is the foundation on which any fair justice system rests.'' Barrett argues that he should have more authority to demand proof from a defendant than even a state prosecutor would have in an investigation. The arrogance and presumption of even bringing such an argument is breathtaking. And as to the issue of 'malice' in a defamation case? Once again, asking that the attorneys who bring a lawsuit understand the meaning of a very basic tenet of tort law, and provide proof of the claim they allege is not a "technicality". <p>
If you think these are "technicalities", then you don't believe in a system of justice at all, and would just condemn a citizen without any evidence and without any hearing. Last time I checked, MDs are not Gods or Kings, despite what they claim. And of real interest here is that Barrett has not had a license since 1993, and as the court points out, he has therefore not kept up with any documented continuing education. He is not specialized in research of this type, nor is he an epidemiologist etc. He has no training in the field he alleges is bogus. By all sane and rational reason, this man is not an expert qualified to be given any credibility in court. It wouldn't even matter if he were biased or not. No judge in their right mind would give any credence to such testimony. In fact, under Daubert or even lesser standards, he would never be qualified as an expert. Reading these cases on this article has convinced me that Barrett well earns the criticism.<p>

I do not know enough about alternative medicine to be a zealot either way. I tend to shy away from most things that seem simply ridiculous to me - ie expensive 'foot baths' for 'detox' (huh?), or magenetic beds or bracelets (I like my latex bed just fine) etc. If I had cancer I would go to a good oncologist. However, that does not mean I am a big fan of doctors, either. I have found appalling the conflict of interests some MDs have -- those who make their living from the products they sell, and those who affiliate themselves with manufacturers of products they study, etc. I have seen the result of that type of conflict of interest, and have no respect for those doctors. <p>
As the court pointed out, we do have federal regulatory agencies (and I might add a Congress that writes laws) that is tasked with making these determinations. No, it is not perfect, as the premature approval of silicone implants demonstrate. But it seems to me that silicone implants cause a lot more harm than any homeopathic medication ever could. And what is the alternative to a regulatory body or other governmental body deciding? You have self-proclaimed experts individually suing people or companies and expecting the defendants to provide the proof for plaintiff's case. <p>

Finally, most MDs complain vociferously about lawsuits - especially when they are directed against themselves, even when there IS proof of malpractice. But it is okay for MDs to file lawsuits against others, without a shred of proof of wrongdoing?] 20:18, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

== Re ] ==

Hi Fyslee,
: ''I have added a suggested title change The is now changed to make the category much more useful...
Thanks for your message. I applaud your work on the description but fear Lee Hunter et al at the relisted CfD have a point; and if there is to be category, the emotive word "quackery" is probably best avoided. I relisted the CfD, though, as a "gut instinct" (how scientific is that?...!) told me a generally acceptable category name has yet to surface... To that end, I've just posted another suggestion there. Thanks again, ] <span style="font-size:90%;">]</span> 01:42, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


==Source on Barrett==
Misplaced Pages does not allow itself to be used as a reliabe source. This would particularly be true of a talk page. We don't even KNOW if that was Barrett. Where do yoiu get your information that we 'have' to include what is clearly not a reliable source?] 19:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

: http://en.wikipedia.org/Wp:blp#Using_the_subject_as_a_source -- ] 05:35, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

== Health Wiki Research ==

A colleague and I are conducting a study on health wikis. We are looking at how wikis co-construct health information and create communities. We noticed that you are a frequent contributor to Misplaced Pages on health topics.

Please consider taking our survey .

This research will help wikipedia and other wikis understand how health information is co-created and used.

We are from James Madison University in Harrisonburg, Virginia. Our university research committee approved the project.

Thanks,
] 15:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

== New Research on Acupuncture Points ==

Howdy Fyslee,
A while back you and others picked apart my Trigger Point and Barefoot Deep Tissue articles. I remembered you when I read this:
http://www.amjphysmedrehab.com/pt/re/ajpmr/abstract.00002060-200701000-00003.htm
It does not support connections to trigger points, but is curious. BTW- I was a skeptic, until I was told that I was a healer. I can see problems on people, and fix them. Call it placebo effect if you wish, but it works.
svacina.com
Sorry if I goofed up the input; I am a perpetual wikinovice (although I am writing my 3rd website):
santabarbaramassagetherapy.com
user=psnack <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (]) 06:58, 22 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->

== Comment about Mercola edits ==
The organization "Integrative Health Care Centers of America" might have existed as a website for a few years. However, a Google search today returns close to zero hits and a search in the online database Factiva givs no articles or press releases mentioning this "organization". It is clearly irrelevant and in no way notable today. ] 11:09, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

: I agree and have not reinstated the link that was added by someone. I just wanted to make sure you are aware that Quackwatch isn't lying. I wonder whatever happened to it? Did it just go underground as a network of quacks and never become an official group? -- ] 11:14, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

== Archive ==
I got the idea from another user page - he did not archive. I do not see that archive is a requirement. Do you?] 17:42, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

: I don't recall that it's an absolute requirement, but it's considered very bad practice to not do so, and will be seen as an attempt to avoid the scrutiny of other editors, which is forbidden here. In fact it will only cause more scrutiny. Everything functions on transparency here. Deleting everything simply lessens one's credibility and raises suspicions, which isn't a desirable thing to do. That's why archiving is standard practice. -- ] 02:17, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

::I disagree, but it really is not a big deal, either. I find it odd that you would change it, though. ] 05:33, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

::: I had no intention of offending you. Misplaced Pages is a funny place where certain forms of ] are common and allowed. I did it in that spirit. Both refactoring and ] promote productive discussion by improving clarity and accessibility. Archives help other editors to our track record here, and a preservation of that track record is often quite important to them. (The link to scrutinizing is from a totally different subject, but the principle still applies.) -- ] 08:35, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

== PAUL LEE, STOP IMMEDIATELY FILLING MY PAGE ==
Original heading: PAUL LEE, STOP IMMEDIATELY FILLING MY PAGE WITH YOUR DELUSIONS AND REVERTING MY EDIT (the long heading was screwing up the format of my talk page!)

Your behavior is abominable. Your bullying tactics typical. When I came back to Misplaced Pages, you have put a deluded version of Barrett's losing case to me so that it was unrecognizable.

You have proven yourself to be an unworthy source. You consistently lied that NCAHF was a legal California Corporation and when you couldn't prove your lies, you attempted to censor me. STOP RIGHT NOW. You are a perfect example of the bully tactics of Barrett's various questionable operations. Thank you and Please stop immediately.] 00:56, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

: Start following the rules here, stop attacking other editors, assume good faith. -- ] 01:09, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

== PAUL LEE ... PLEASE STOP FILLING MY TALKPAGE WITH ... ==

Original heading: PAUL LEE ... PLEASE STOP FILLING MY TALKPAGE WITH YOUR WILD AND FALSE ACCUSATIONS (the long heading was screwing up the format of my talk page!)

Thank you. ] 16:28, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

: Getting hysterical doesn't help your cause. Just start following the rules here, stop attacking other editors, and assume good faith. -- ] 19:07, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

==A question on quotes==
Hi Fyselee. I understand your recent edit on 'Barrett v. Rosenthal'. I have no quibble with it, but have a question for you. When one places something in quotes eg "stalking" that usually suggests it is not a fact. There is a phrase for that, but I am not sure off the top of my head what it is. Is there a need for the phrase, alleged "stalking" (with stalking in quotes). Or would you remove the quotes then? I agree that adding "alleged" clarifies. This is only a small point, but I do not know what the writing convention is, if there is one. ] 21:35, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

: Placing it in quotes can be interpreted as:

:* It's a precise quote.

:* It's a non-serious use of the word.

: Regardless of which meaning above is in use, I just wanted to make sure that no one reading it would be led to believe that it was a true and proven fact. I'm not sure of the conventions. -- ] 09:31, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


== Anecdotes or anecdotal evidence ?==

Happy New Year. You cite the quotation below with obvious approval:

: "Anecdotes are useless precisely because they may point to idiosyncratic responses." - Pediatric Allergy & Immunology, 1999 Nov;10(4) 226-234 ]

My question is this: Would not sincere practitioners of, for example, herbal medicine, agree that anecdotes are useless, but that anecdotal evidence based on a very large number of cases or long tradition, is an entirely different matter ? ] 14:04, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


== ''The Signpost'': 12 December 2024 ==
: Hi Robert. Long time no hear...;-) Hope you've had a nice Xmas holiday. You have some good questions. The quote should not be taken as an all inclusive coverage of the subject, but specifically to the fact that anecdotes often point to unusual and rare, not ordinary and common, occurrences. That's why they get noticed and retold. I have actually written a little essay on the subject:


<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-12-12}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 17, manually published--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 21:56, 12 December 2024 (UTC) </div></div>
:*
<!-- Message sent by User:Bri@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe&oldid=1262352523 -->


== You see this? ==
: Maybe it can help you understand some of my POV on the subject. Anecdotes do have a certain type of value. If you have more questions, don't hesitate to return. -- ] 19:01, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 19:39, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
==Help!==
: Yes, we've known that he was accused of lying since Spring, but now he has actually confessed. Nice! Giuliani has some unsavory Russian intelligence accomplices in his efforts to cover-up Trump's misdeeds and cast the blame on others, such as Biden and Ukraine. Nasty business. Our content that says that "no evidence of wrongdoing by Joe Biden has been found" (paraphrase) is still accurate. -- ] (]) (PING me) 19:46, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Hey Fyslee. WOuld you help on NCAHF? I think your input here would be helpful. Curtis is recreating NCAHF webpage here. The way he has done it is terrible, and terrible writing. I even suggested that we call Dr. Barrett and ask his opinion! I certainly agree that the position of NCAHF on these issues is important to include. I don't agree in 20 pages. There should be a summary of each, with the main points mentioned. Then, a reference to the appropriate postiion paper. Thanks!] 20:08, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
BTW, your sharp mind is needed at ]. -- ] (]) (PING me) 19:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)


:I'll check it out when I have some time. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 20:04, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
::Fyslee, please help. This editor is abusive. There is no other word for it. He has now followed me over to ] and is saying there is ''no'' evidence, instead of ''no clear evidence'', and again constantly reverting. I don't know where he came from, but this is the worst editor I have ever encountered.] 00:40, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
:::I would like to know if you agree with the edits in ]? Do you agree with what Curtis is doing? His defamation, ridicule, insults, and abusiveness, not to mention copying large sections of various webpages? Is this an example of a "Barrett fan?" Wow] 01:43, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
On another note, if you are the one that asked Ronz for help, I agree with your concern. In fact, I may remove your name myself from the talk page, but I don't know if that will remove the history. There is a place on the home page where you can email Misplaced Pages - I would do that.] 01:54, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


==Happy First Edit Day!==
== List of articles related to quackery ==
<!-- ##RW UNDERDATE## -->
<div style="background-color:#E6E6FA; border: 1px solid #7D00B3; margin: 0.5em auto; padding: 0.5em; width:90%; text-align: center">]<span style="font-weight:bold;font-size:125%;">Happy First Edit Day!</span>]
Have a very happy first edit anniversary!


From the ], ] (]) 00:46, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
I started a new stub called "List of articles related to quackery". Please help to make it notable. Check my first contribution. Thanks. --] 18:41, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
</div>

Latest revision as of 00:47, 18 December 2024

This page has been removed from search engines' indexes.
Compare Wikipedias How to find word count

This user is aware of the designation of the following topics as contentious topics: He should not be given alerts for those areas.
Skip to top Skip to bottom
Media mentionThis page has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:
  • Ashe Schow (November 25, 2015). "Misplaced Pages founder advocates for updating policies following 'The Hunting Ground' controversy". Washington Examiner. Retrieved February 8, 2020. Another editor, whose username is BullRangifer, suggested Misplaced Pages not become "a kangaroo court or lynching" by rushing to ban accounts who break COI. BullRangifer suggested following seven steps to determine whether "The Hunting Ground" crew member should be banned and whether his edits should be removed. Some of the steps included how he handled questions related to his edits and whether he stuck to discussion pages to ask for edits rather than making them himself.
  • Marcus Gilmer (October 3, 2018). "Misplaced Pages demotes Breitbart to fake news". Mashable. Retrieved October 5, 2018. Support. If anything, it's even more unreliable than the Daily Mail, as they at least use trained journalists, whereas Breitbart is a fringe propaganda organization which lets its extreme partisan bias get in the way of how it reports things, and whether it does so, just as Fox News does. It too should be deprecated, but let's start with Breitbart (and InfoWars). — BullRangifer 17:51, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
  • Alexander Hall (August 13, 2020). "Report: Misplaced Pages Editors Censoring Evidence Supporting Michael Flynn". NewsBusters. Retrieved August 15, 2020. Liberal user Valjean responded by condemning this revelation as 'conspiracy theories' and 'part of a cover-up,' even 'when it comes from the now-sitting government of the USA.' Valjean specified that 'Nothing coming from Trump's Justice Department, FBI, CIA, anything, can be trusted.' Breitbart alleged that Valjean, formerly under the name 'BullRangifer' has been 'previously involved in slanting articles about the Russia investigation.'
  • Raymond Sturman (October 23, 2024). "Top 5 Editing Conflicts in Misplaced Pages Pages on Religion". World Religion News. Retrieved October 24, 2024. Located on the Catholic Church Misplaced Pages talk page, the screenshot below details a recent discussion of the tension between the Roman Catholic Church and other branches of Catholicism. Editor 'Valjean' is protesting that the word 'Roman' has been removed from the title, arguing that there are other branches of Catholicism, while the Roman Catholic Church says it is the real Catholic Church.
Welcome to Valjean's talk page! TBIP
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32
Talk:Donald Trump/Response to claims of bias
Talk page negotiation table

"The best content is developed through civil collaboration between editors who hold opposing points of view."
by Valjean. From WP:NEUTRALEDIT

"The quality of Misplaced Pages articles rises with the number of editors per article as well as a greater diversity among them."

When all else fails, AGF and remember that

We Just Disagree
So let's leave it alone, 'cause we can't see eye to eye.
There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy.
There's only you and me, and we just disagree.
by Dave Mason (Listen)

Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement
Try to stay in the top three sections of this hierarchy.

Mail

Hello, Valjean. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Anythingyouwant (talk) 23:33, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – September 2024

News and updates for administrators from the past month (August 2024).

Administrator changes

removed Pppery

Interface administrator changes

removed Pppery

Oversighter changes

removed Wugapodes

CheckUser changes

removed

Guideline and policy news

Arbitration

Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:45, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

The Signpost: 4 September 2024

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:24, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

That was kind of sweet

"Now, last time you talked to Slate, you had an update for Misplaced Pages. Do you have any further updates for Misplaced Pages that you would like to share? No, I don’t. But that was one of my favorite moments on Twitter of all time. That was amazing." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:14, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Ah! The Emily St. John Mandel situation. I have forgotten most of it, so had to look again. I hope she feels justice was finally done here. I still believe we should allow mention of the controversy over Misplaced Pages's failure. We normally do it as it's clearly notable enough for mention. Our added failure to even mention it is a clear case of censorship to protect Misplaced Pages's reputation, and that's just wrong. In one breath we have a policy that says Misplaced Pages is WP:NOTCENSORED, and in the next we actually censor it for the worst possible reason. That example makes me ashamed to be a wikipedian. Consensus can be wrong.
What is that Twitter moment she mentions? Do you have info on that or a link to a tweet? https://x.com/emilymandel -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 18:36, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
My reading is when she tweeted "Interview me please!" and Slate said "sure". Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:47, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
That makes sense. It worked. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 20:59, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Tim Ferriss

Hi Valjean, I'm working to update Tim Ferriss's page with details about his philanthropic work in the field of psychedelic research. I see that you're a member of WP:ALTMED, so I hope that you will consider implementing my edit request on the Talk page. I would love your help. Thank you! Coyoteadventures (talk) 14:55, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Notification

See Misplaced Pages:No original research/Noticeboard#Ellen G. White. tgeorgescu (talk) 18:43, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Destiny (streamer) revert

@ValijeanCan you elaborate on why Fox News is not credible but other outlets are? Destiny made very extreme remarks regarding the Trump assassination attempt as clearly stated in a Piers Morgan: Uncensored episode. Are you suggesting I include the YouTube video as a source as well? – Brenr 17:09, September 21, 2024 (UTC) – Brenr 17:09, September 21, 2024 (UTC) 17:09, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

@Valijean I've adjusted the source to YouTube. Let's not revert that. I can find additional sources so it's incompliance with Misplaced Pages's standards. – Brenr 17:14, September 21, 2024 (UTC)
Why do you even ask such a question? Are you unaware of the extreme biases of Fox News and how it broadcasts falsehoods and deception all the time? We limit its use, especially regarding BLP assertions. If Destiny is really far-left, then there will be multiple mainstream RS that say so. The article already includes multiple descriptions of Destiny's political views. Your YouTube primary source isn't good either. It doesn't even describe him as far-left. You need multiple mainstream, secondary, RS that say it. This is BLP stuff, so we're very careful and delete immediately until better sourcing is provided. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 17:23, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
A YouTube video is an original source, which is sufficient. A valid source doesn't need to be one that is from a publisher with a pundit who describes him as extreme. He has demonstrated that by his own words, which is absolutely sufficient as a source. Also, where are you getting this idea that left-wing media outlets would publish articles claiming Destiny is far left when the outlets themselves have a left leaning? – Brenr 17:30, September 21, 2024 (UTC)
YouTube is a primary source we are cautious about using, especially for BLP claims. I use it to back up what RS already say. That's a legitimate use of primary sources. That he might express views that are typically far-left isn't good enough. That's our own POV about what he says. We need secondary RS that expressly say it. If it's that difficult to find such sources, then it doesn't belong in the article. BTW, I have no previous knowledge of either Destiny or Tim Pool. I don't usually listen to podcasts or YouTube channels for such content. I use YouTube for music, and YouTube Premium is well worth the cost. You can read about my media diet. I occasionally hear an episode of The David Pakman Show because my wife shares it with me. She likes him, and he doesn't rant and rave. He seems clearly left-wing and progressive, and not far-left. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 17:49, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Tim Ferriss - Career section

Hi Valjean, Thanks so much for you help on Tim Ferriss's page. Would you be willing to look at the new edit request I posted about adding to the Career section? I would really appreciate it. Thank you! Coyoteadventures (talk) 14:37, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

 Done. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 15:15, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
Thank you so much! Coyoteadventures (talk) 15:16, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

thank you for undoing my edit to Big lie! I didn't realize it was a quote and will be more careful next time :) xRozuRozu (t • c) 04:10, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
You're very welcome, and thank you. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 04:19, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 September 2024

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:07, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you!

Keep seeing your diligent work on Steele dossier pop up on my watchlist. Andre🚐 22:20, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
Thanks! So nice to have you back. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 22:33, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Tim Ferriss - additional updates

Hi Valjean, You have been so helpful on Tim Ferriss's page. I added one more edit request to the Talk page with ideas for the Early life and Personal life sections as well as the lead. I would love it if you would take a look - Talk:Tim_Ferriss#Additional_updates_to_the_page. I'm grateful for your assistance. Thank you! Coyoteadventures (talk) 15:16, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – October 2024

News and updates for administrators from the past month (September 2024).

Administrator changes

added
removed

CheckUser changes

readded
removed

Guideline and policy news

Arbitration

Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:01, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

The Signpost: 19 October 2024

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:13, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – November 2024

News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2024).

Administrator changes

readded
removed

CheckUser changes

removed Maxim

Oversighter changes

removed Maxim

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • Mass deletions done with the Nuke tool now have the 'Nuke' tag. This change will make reviewing and analyzing deletions performed with the tool easier. T366068

Arbitration

Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:22, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

on communication in different societies

As a New Yorker, I think the truism or the stereotype of learned experience is a dangerous and powerful thing. Universality can also be a delusion at times, but consider empiricism, a topic I know we both cherish. Many things about the universe are counter-intuitive and sometimes even irrational, like quantum mechanics. Yet we still sometimes harbor the delusion of a Newtonian universe. We also inhabit a reality tunnel. Map-territory relation is a fraught topic. What I mean by all of this abstract stuff is that it's better not to generalize even though obviously different societies are different. For example, in low-content or high-context societies, for example, I recently had the occasion to work with a lot of international folks from the Scandinavian region. There's a bluntness that I can appreciate, very different from say, Japan, where it's expected to imply or skirt around certain things. Yes, Israelis also have their own type of communication and some if it is a stereotype, but how can you argue with one's internalized lived experience? Yet, we must, because it can cause to make generalizations go beyond the scope or local minimum which they apply in. As a New Yorker, I've always seen other New Yorkers put themselves out there to help anyone who needs it, and work together as a city to heal or help communities, yet you would hear the stereotype that New Yorkers aren't "nice." Yet, "Minnesota nice" people will tell you that their pleasantries are passive aggression. What's better?

A writer like Gil Troy is reliable. I challenge you to find any errors in his books on Israel and Zionism. Sure, he has a POV, but he's not Dershowitz or Karsh. And there's nothing really that wrong with Karsh either, but he doesn't make any illusion of showing where he's coming from. That doesn't mean he can't be used for facts, since we apparently think it's ok to use an anthropologist, Nadia abu el Haj, on an article about genetics, or we'll use an economist instead of a historian as on the Zionism article. There's a problem on Misplaced Pages in that we have inconsistently applied, in some cases leading to presumed-unintentional cherrypicking, when it comes to a number of issues about international politics. In fact, I would challenge anyone who thinks there aren't many problems with Misplaced Pages's coverage of international politics to actually spend some time thoughtfully compiling a source survey of the top Ivy League or Cambridge/Oxford/Stanford/MIT/and similar caliber academics and how they treat international politics, versus some of the academics that end up getting used on Misplaced Pages but are objectively less pedigreed - maybe not fringe per se, but definitely in a specific niche.

How are you feeling about tonight? I'd say about D 342 is my prediction and a trifecta is looking quite possible if NE-Sen, MT, and/or OH have a D night. House also looks good, as 3 of the R-to-D flips are already priced in by the NYT, and Oracle Pelosi has graced us with her aligning view. Andre🚐 21:50, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Apologies for butting in uninvited, but I ended up here by happenstance & felt the need to reply.
On a somewhat cursory glance of his writings, I would not consider Gil Troy a reliable source as he is rather prone to errors.
In WHY I AM A ZIONIST he writes that "Israel has been falsely accused of ...withholding vaccines from Palestinians" despite that being a real issue (He also cites his own opinion article) He also states "Israel has no legislation based on race" on the pretext that race = "appearance, blood, presumed biology or skin color", which ignores the social aspect of race as a concept. He then uses this as justification for his later reasoning -
"Security-based distinctions may keep Israelis and Palestinians apart but that’s not apartheid, a race-based, skin-color-driven form of legal discrimination." (I'm not commenting on if Israel does or does not practice apartheid, only that he does not understand what the word means, thus failing to properly counter the accusation).
Then, in his book, The Essential Guide To October 7th And Its Aftermath, he references posters saying “Rape Is Resistance and “Babies Are Occupiers Too… Free Palestine by Any Means Necessary.”, but what he is referencing are obviously fake stickers spread online by an outrage grifter named Oil London.
He does not do his research & he does not care for accuracy.
Again, apologies for this potential tirade, I'm not outright objecting to your point or mean any offense to you, but I felt the need to point out issues with Gil Troy specifically. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 00:45, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

My reply to both of you is that I don't know who Troy is and haven't considered him in anything I've said. What I said at the Zionism article was generalities and principles. I have not been active in the Middle East topics area and have no desire to get into that quagmire and quicksand. I suspect it has a lot of tricky aspects, just like the gender and LGBTQ topics, and one can easily offend and be misunderstood. I have seen too many good editors blocked because of it in both areas. I am not an expert and have a lot to learn, so I appreciate all input. Feel free to teach me.

My father and brothers have traveled in those areas, while I have only visited Lebanon for ten days in 1996. We stayed with our new family in Beirut. My wife's nephew met a Christian Lebanese girl in England, and we were invited to the wedding. The food and hospitality were amazing! Super healthy and tasty. We love garlic, so got lots of it. It was a different party and restaurant every night. We chartered a bus for the whole family and toured the country. That was quite the experience. As we got further and further south in the Beqaa Valley, stopping at checkpoint after checkpoint, the signs on buildings got more and more ominous. I was the only American, and I was warned, for good reason, to not let my nationality be known. The signs showed huge caricatures of American soldiers with alligator heads with Arabic babies in their mouths, with lots of blood. At one checkpoint, the driver refused to go any further, with the explanation that we were getting too far into Hezbollah territory and could risk becoming hostages. Yes, it sounded like a good idea to get out of that area! Further south was the area from which Hezbollah shoots their rockets into northern Israel. Every day Israeli jets buzzed Beirut, with loud sonic booms and generally spreading terror, because they would also shoot at targets. We saw on TV a little knoll in the Beqaa Valley that had a Syrian tank on it. An Israeli jet blew it up, and that was just on the other side of the coastal range from where we were. This was very different from peaceful Denmark! It turned out that this was normal for peacetime. There were no active conflicts at the time, so this was just the usual way that Israel treated Lebanon. I would love to visit Israel, but with Lebanon stamped in my passport, that would have been out of the question. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 01:48, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

I brought up Troy as an example of a reliable Zionist historian since you (Valjean) said that Zionist historians exaggerate. I'm sure that some Zionist historians do, but Troy is reliable. Responding to Butterscotch - is he a friend of yours? - Israel does give vaccines to the Palestinians, Troy's opinion on the appropriateness of the word apartheid is hardly impeaching his credibility, and your example of some kind of outrage grifter doesn't negate the fact that there are very real activists espousing those messages in addition to presumed trolls. Nothing in Buttscotch's thread is any kind of indictment or critique of Troy. Troy happens to be Canadian and is not Israeli. But there are also a number of reliable Israeli historians. Andre🚐 00:24, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
I don't really know @Valjean, as I said, I got here by happenstance, more specifically, I misclicked & my curiosity got the best of me.
The point of how Israel is now handling vaccines though, is irrelevant considering what/when Troy was referring to, Covid-19, where that was an issue.
I was not commenting on his opinion of how appropriate the word apartheid was, but rather that he either 1) didn't have the wherewithal to check what the accusation he sought to deny meant, or 2) he purposefully sought to mislead the reader as he repeatedly emphasizes his incorrect understanding of race to dismiss the argument. (I'm trying to practice good faith in my analysis of his work, so I'll stick with 1).
My "example of some kind of outrage grifter" is important because the only place I can find of any evidence showing posters or stickers with that message are from a bunch of grifters on twitter who peddle in disinformation. (If you can find actual protesters saying either “Rape Is Resistance" or “Babies Are Occupiers Too", please let me know so I can condemn them & block them) It's important because it would show that he doesn't scrutinize or verify his sources. It also didn't help that he didn't actually cite any info for that book, so its contents remain academically useless.
It's fine for him to be highly opinionated, but his inability to properly fact check his sources to support those opinions leave him as a sub-par writer, especially for such a contentious topic.
There should be enough actually academic Zionist scholars to cite anyway, so I don't feel we'd be at much of a loss not using him.
...And, I seem to've typed out another wall of text, sorry for that. Also, apologies to Valjean for having my words clutter your page. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 01:17, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
That's a ridiculous assumption that because you couldn't personally verify something, you believe that is evidence that Troy doesn't fact check his sources and is a sub-par writer. He's an academic and a respected published author and historian. Andre🚐 01:42, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
Well if I can't verify the claim, and he doesn't cite anything, its validity should be considered questionable. He's also an American presidential historian, not a Zionist historian (should've brought that up earlier), so his academic credentials are unrelated to his activism.
Are you going to acknowledge anything else that I wrote? Also, should we take this to a different page as to not further bother Valjean? Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 01:59, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
Actually I'd rather drop it. You haven't made any reasonable arguments. Troy is a historian of Zionism as well as other types of history. If Valjean wants to respond to any of this, he can, or not. I was responding to something Valjean wrote, as far as I know there isn't any editing issue that you and I have to discuss. Valjean is one of my friends here. But I unfortunately found a lot of problems with the recent statement he made on Zionism. I do not think I could find common ground with you on this, and you've done little to disabuse me of that. Troy is reliable, but I also haven't at any time cited anything to him in an article. If I ever do and you revert that, we can discuss it then, until then, I don't think we have anything to discuss further right now. Andre🚐 03:38, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't mind you holding your conversation here. I'm learning from it! Andre, please explain what problems you found with my comments. I'm sure I can learn more. My opinion there is neither my full POV (whatever the fuck that might be!) nor necessarily well-informed, hence my desire to hear your opinion. (It would also help me to know your background. Jewish?... or use email) I have a pathologically insatiable desire to always be learning, hence my love for editing here and watching Jeopardy!. (Feel free to improve my article Strategies and skills of Jeopardy! champions.) -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 05:18, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I think it's been a matter of public record on wiki so I don't mind saying that my great-grandparents came to America fleeing the pogroms in the Russian Empire and Eastern Europe. I tend not to agree with my more right-wing family members but most American Jews are quite progressive and believe it's OK to criticize the current right-wing government of Israel and the high civilian death tolls. It's also the case that Hamas uses human shields and puts hostages in civilian areas or with journalists or military installations in hospitals. There are many problematic tropes and misinformation, such as those who accuse Israel of intentionally trying to wipe out the Palestinian population, a population that has only continued to grow, nothing like the Holocaust during which 6 million Jews were killed and the population still hasn't recovered. Arab citizens in Israel can vote, own land, and serve in the parliament. Most of the Jewish population of Israel, only about half of which is European, went there because they had nowhere else to go after persecution in Europe and the Middle East/North African areas that became inhospital and expelled or otherwise persecuted their Jews in the aftermath of 1948. The US did not accept many Jewish refugees in the 1930s and 1940s. That doesn't mean the Palestinian refugees didn't also in many cases get a raw deal and it's fair to criticize the West Bank settlers that often flout international law and exist an extralegal area. Still, on 10/7, Hamas unprovoked invaded Israeli territory attacking and slaughtering civilians. Hezbollah has also been launching rockets into Israel. Israel has a right to defend itself and it has a right to exist within the historical borders that the entire international community voted for and ratified. Believing in that doesn't mean condoning ethnocentrism or ethnically targeted policy. Unfortunately, that was a reality for many places including the United States especially in the 1930s and earlier. There is also a progressive left in Israel and it's a country that has given us many medical and technological advances, not to mention a permissive and tolerant, and democratic culture. The portrayal of the country as a colonial oppressor similar to South Africa is not apt. Andre🚐 05:36, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
We agree. The whole situation is just so sad. Why can't people get along? Ask Isaac and Ishmael! It started with them, and their descendants are doomed to always be at war. To complicate matters, the state of Israel is also used as a pawn in international political intrigues and is used as a proxy, whether it likes it or not. The specter of Armageddon always hangs over the region. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 05:49, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
Yes, it's global chess games, and unfortunately there is collateral damage and innocents in the crossfire. All we can do is try to educate and deradicalize people. Sadly, a lot of our current day progressives have forgotten some of the important and hard-won lessons. Andre🚐 05:54, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
On a different topic, what about the Asian News International vs. Wikimedia Foundation mess? What is to prevent Trump from doing the same and going after any editors here who include anything negative in his articles? We have about two months before our freedoms can get attacked, so we should enjoy this respite. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 05:54, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
Definitely don't defame anyone onwiki. I agree. It's a worrisome development. But also, I think I'm a 2024 truther. Let's see the final counts and any cured mail-in ballots. Biden wasn't declared winner in 2020 until Saturday. The numbers were so far off from the polls such as the Seltzer poll in Iowa, and DeJoy is still postmaster. Trump always projects and accuses his opponents of what he's guilty of. But you'll notice nobody has mentioned "stopping the steal" or any rigged ballot counts in the last 36 hours. Andre🚐 05:56, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
Interesting stuff. The election needs to play out and be curated. It needs a complete and thorough post mortem. I have a hard time believing that the Russians, who fully penetrated most electoral systems in most states, didn't use that knowledge to benefit Trump this time around. That makes no sense, so they likely did have a finger or two in the works somewhere. Being as dishonest as he is, I'm always suspicious of him. He would be a failure, by his own standards, if he missed a chance to cheat, and even though he is a huge failure in just about every area of life, cheating is one area where he excels. This was just too "clean". -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 16:39, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Any idea why Ivanka Trump patented a "voting machine" in China in 2018? I've tried to find more info, but I can't. She applied for the patent in 2016, which seems weird. I was just reading Victoria Collier's wild 2012 essay in Harper's. I wonder how many people know that US voting machine companies are owned by Republicans? As late as 2020, NBC News was reporting that many of these machines made by these same companies are not certified by the U.S. Election Assistance Commission even though the companies who sell them falsely claim they are. Viriditas (talk) 23:34, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Andre🚐 01:13, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

The Signpost: 6 November 2024

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:03, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Please sign the Misplaced Pages:2024 open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation

Misplaced Pages:2024 open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 18:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Email

I got your email, but I see it's already been dealt with. However, I may consult the blocking administrator about the block. To block such a large range for the specified reason is, in my opinion, highly questionable. Not long ago I was affected by a similar block, but global. I actually had no problem editing English Misplaced Pages, because I'm an administrator, but I was blocked from all other Wikimedia projects, which was very annoying. JBW (talk) 20:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Article for The Tim Ferriss Show

Hi Valjean, a few months ago you were very helpful to me in making updates to the Tim Ferriss article. Now I'm trying to create an article for Tim's podcast, The Tim Ferriss Show. I'd love it if you could take a look at the draft I have posted here. Would you consider moving it to main space?

Thank you, Coyoteadventures (talk) 14:44, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 November 2024

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2024 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 2 December 2024. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2024 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:08, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – December 2024

News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2024).

Administrator changes

added
readded
removed

Interface administrator changes

added
readded Pppery

CheckUser changes

readded

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

Arbitration

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:20, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

The Signpost: 12 December 2024

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:56, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

You see this?

Andre🚐 19:39, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, we've known that he was accused of lying since Spring, but now he has actually confessed. Nice! Giuliani has some unsavory Russian intelligence accomplices in his efforts to cover-up Trump's misdeeds and cast the blame on others, such as Biden and Ukraine. Nasty business. Our content that says that "no evidence of wrongdoing by Joe Biden has been found" (paraphrase) is still accurate. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 19:46, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

BTW, your sharp mind is needed at Talk:E._Jean_Carroll_v._Donald_J._Trump#"Falsely_stated"??. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 19:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I'll check it out when I have some time. Andre🚐 20:04, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!

Happy First Edit Day!

Have a very happy first edit anniversary!

From the Birthday Committee, DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 00:46, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Category: