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Revision as of 14:08, 10 December 2020 view sourceFlyer22 Frozen (talk | contribs)365,630 edits →Rape statistics: Reply to you first before leaving.← Previous edit Latest revision as of 14:28, 17 October 2024 view source Human10.0 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users568 edits →Devastated: new sectionTag: New topic 
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*'''I don't expect to engage here much anymore at all unless necessary (such as article talk page space).''' So, given that this talk page will not be getting much use (and its use has been on the decline because of certain unwanted watchers), you might want to go ahead and drop this talk page. If you email me, I may or may not reply.
{{deceased|message=Respectful comments of remembrance may be left below.}}{{Nobots}}]
{{collapse top|title=My TED talk}}
*'''I don't care about your politics and activism as long as you keep them off Misplaced Pages and edit the way you are supposed to edit.''' Read and comprehend ] and ]. I am not here to present one side of any debate or conflict. So, no, you will not see me only adding material that you agree with. I am not here to make you feel more validated in your views. I am here to present what the ] state with WP:Due weight.


<p><br />
*'''Harassment/hounding.''' For those expecting me to just when facing ], and who act like I'm just not ] enough in these cases, how about you go smile when someone harasses/hounds you. Yes, I'm going to respond to jabs if they are persistent and they are not just a troll matter to ignore. This is not necessarily ]. It can be about making it clear that I'm not going to tolerate it. And while bickering on a talk page is not ideal, I am human. We are human. Bickering will happen at times, and our ] are not above succumbing to this fate either. With as long as I've been at this site, I know that. For the admins who have never bickered, it may be that they aren't out there in the thick of it dealing with harassment/hounding or POV-pushing that undermines this site. Whatever the case, assuming good faith does not require that editors continue to assume good faith in the presence of obvious evidence to the contrary. Assuming good faith does not prohibit discussion and criticism. Assuming good faith does not mean playing dumb.
----<br />
</p>


{{retired}}
*'''Socks.''' If I see a ], I am likely to alert a ] to the matter. I might start a ]. If I ask you if you have edited as a different account, I have a good reason for asking. ]. It is not a violation of WP:Assume good faith. And since ] is a thing, it is not always because I'm certain that you are violating our WP:Sockpuppet policy.
Regarding ? Looking at all of ] and knowing I'd be subjected to similar, and how certain editors go all out to prove false narratives, I cannot deal with that. Like some editors (including ]) know, I am dealing with ] issues in the family. That is not something I just made up to get out of going through this "must take down Flyer" thing. It was happening before that, and it's gotten worse. I have a brother (not the one who edits here) in intensive care and a sister who was just put on a ventilator. I already lost an uncle to the virus. And editing here is supposed to help me take my mind off of stuff like that, not be subjected to as much stress and time-wasting that an ArbCom case entails.


I have said goodbye to editors here already. And I will say this before I leave: The argument from a few that ANI failed an editor because the admins are biased in my favor? Are we to honestly believe that I control all of these well-respected admins? They have their own minds and have disagreed with me before. They saw what they saw. So for this case to be accepted? It feels like this case would have been accepted regardless of the many requests to decline it. This case isn't about the private evidence -- material that I didn't write but am accused of writing. Material that was not passed on to me for scrutiny. None of the Arbs accepted the case on the basis of that "evidence", which speaks to just how immaterial it is. I acknowledge that I haven't always been the most civil. Editors on the case page noted that I work in areas where tempers flare. That's true. Editors accusing me of having been uncivil to them have also been uncivil to me at one point or another, often in the very discussions they've linked to. ] , "'''Arbcom is not a court, it's purpose is to stop ''current and sustained'' disruption of the project, not to punish users for things they may have done in the past.'''" But that is exactly what the request points to -- a free-for-all for anyone who has ever been in a heated dispute with me, with the added bonus of portraying my behavior as bullying, transphobic, or something else that it isn't. ]. Adhering to our policies and guidelines and expecting others to do the same is not bullying or being discriminatory. Criticisms are not automatically personal attacks. And commentary about what took place here at my own talk page can be seen ] with my "18:00, 9 October 2020 (UTC)" post (scroll on down).
*'''My block log.''' Since many here will look at a person's without taking the time to read and comprehend it, or are simply confused by it, I point to what ] about mine: "Just for the record, I want to confirm that Flyer 22's block log is the result of a genuine 'My brother did it' episode. I communicated with Flyer by email at the time (as did other admins), and I was convinced that she was not guilty of any abuse herself - and the block that I made was indeed to help her secure her account, as I noted in the log. In fact, none of the blocks is a result of any misbehaviour by Flyer 22." So if you want to bring up my block log to sling mud my way (failing to read descriptions as simple as "uneccessary block, will comment at ANI"), be my guest, but it just makes you look ignorant.
{{collapse bottom}}


The claim that I went after anyone at ] and made participation at WT:Med talk pages unbearable is false. For example, until the Medicine ArbCom case and I continued to support Doc James -- ]. These "just fine" interactions include stuff like , , , ], ], ], and that I am a fine editor for new medical editors to work with. I was never a problem at WP:Med. I have . And the only supposed instance of me being problematic there is ] that I was driving away a newcomer. As documented there with evidence, I criticized a newcomer for the same exact thing another editor criticized others for when it comes to adding quality sources. Like me, Girth saw no merit to the incivility claims leveled against me in that discussion. At the moment, I can only recall one other heated discussion I was involved in at WP:Med. And that is ] about the ] article. But it was just that -- a heated discussion. It was not me being a problem. And, indeed, because of my arguments there and ], the article was moved to its proper name and appropriately expanded. Disagreements over ], such as ] one in a collapsed box which started off by me suggesting that we discuss significant changes before we make them (and then getting the reply I did), ] one where I questioned removing guidance and ] previously involved editors who helped craft the current MOS:MED guideline (which is perfectly fine per ]), and challenging what were the "golden years" of WP:Med, does not equate to me being disruptive.
== The International Ecotourism Society edits ==


That's all I have say. This is not how I wanted to leave Misplaced Pages. But with my own declining health, it was only a matter of time anyway. Take care.
Hello Flyer22,
]


==Flowers for Flyer==
The article as it stands is defamatory, only uses negative sources, and gives false information. The articles stood for years before it was attacked. Please Allow it to revert to the original before Roi edited it. He works for a competing organization. Thanks. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 03:38, 2 December 2020 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
{{cquote|
<poem>Nor shall death brag thou wander'st in his shade,
When in eternal lines to time thou grow'st:
So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.</poem>
|author=]|source=]|float=right}}
]


==Goodbye==
*Not what I wanted to wake up to. You take care of yourself; you and your families health is much more important than any drama that happens here. It has been a pleasure working with you and watching you work. Misplaced Pages has just lost one of their best editors. Thank you for all the hard work you have put into the project over the years. You will be missed. ]&nbsp;] 16:34, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
*Yes, this truly sucks. Maybe after your health issues are resolved, and the drama dies down, you can come back. That will always be my hope. Take care, happy holidays, and best to you. ] (]) 17:13, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
*I am very sad to see you go. After losing editors like Doc James, and now you, how many highly valuable users must this ArbCom chase off the site? I think the essay about the problem of ]s aptly describes the situation: {{tq|As a result of the arbitration committee's failure to deal with these issues, the committee has effectively abdicated the responsibility for ensuring neutrality, verifiability, and other content standards to a few users...who patrol these articles and attempt to keep them free of disruption. These users are generally very knowledgeable about the subject and committed to Misplaced Pages's policies on proper sourcing and appropriate weight. Unfortunately, they tend to burn out....The patient ones tend to go more quietly. They become disillusioned by the never-ending problems and the lack of support from the Misplaced Pages community, and stop editing on these topics or quit the site entirely.}} That is what happened today - even though many more in the community do support you, as you saw. I also would have had plenty of diffs presented about how those few disgruntled users ganging up on you and pinging each other are in fact the problem. And as for how you are with newbies, the only reason I became a regular editor is because you were kind to me and I saw from your example that improving Misplaced Pages really was possible. '''Thank you for your many years of service and hundreds of thousands of edits.''' The topic of human sexuality, among many others, have benefited greatly. You should take great pride in all you've accomplished over the years. I hope you enjoy your retirement to the fullest degree possible. I also wish the best for you and your family regarding health and the other issues of life. The rest of us will undoubtedly step up our work to ensure continued quality in these areas. I hold out hope that one day you will choose to come back. If so, you will be warmly welcomed. Kind regards, <span style="font-family:Palatino">]</span> <sup>]</sup> 18:00, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
*{{ec}} I echo the comments made by {{u|Aircorn}} and {{u|Crossroads}}. I have worked with you on a few different articles and you have been extremely helpful and pleasant to contribute with. I wish you all of the best with your off-wiki situation and hope to see you back in the future. -- '''] ]''' 18:06, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
* I likewise echo the above sentiments. Thanks to you, I have learned so much about what it takes to improve as an editor and make productive contributions. I think your absence from Misplaced Pages will be a huge loss as I find your work on articles and your dedication to this site invaluable. This situation really sucks. You've been a guide for me on what a good, even-minded, well-sourced, and thoughtful contributions to a wiki looks like and I so appreciate all of the advice and guidance you have given me. I really hope you decide to come back one day. I am so sorry to hear about the health issues occurring with you and in your family. I will keep thinking of you and I wish only good things for you, Flyer. ] (]) 20:40, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
*''']'''--] (]) 21:59, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
*If this retirment is permanent, then I'll deeply miss you. Best wishes to you and your family either way. The sooner your health improves, the better. I know from experience how it can be very frustrating when things go badly on Misplaced Pages. Sometimes we just need to temporarily step away from it all before spending time on the site is enjoyable again. Hopefully you return at some point. No matter what follows in your future, know that you won't be forgotten. ] (] / ]) 00:33, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
* I'm very sorry to hear about your retirement and your health issues, Flyer. The door is always open to you should you choose to return to Misplaced Pages in the future. Best wishes, ] (] - ]) 03:02, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
* I miss you already. ] (]) 05:12, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
* At least the legacy of your 14 years of labour here will be improving the world's understanding for many decades to come. I'll say prayers for the health of yourself and your family. ] (]) 07:38, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
*Very sorry to hear the terrible health news. Please take care, best wishes, and thanks for all your great work. ] (]) 09:08, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
*This news is just absolutely devastating. I have many women's articles on my radar but through the years as I've seen controversies come and go I've always known that we had the capable hands of Flyer to keep and restore our women-related articles to reflect a modern-day acceptance of the rights, the accomplishments, the history, etc. of women. Flyer easily falls into the top three leading editors when it comes to women. I pray that once Flyer's health problems are resolved she will return. Flyer is our very own Gloria, Florence, Rosie, Sojourner, Malala, and so many others who have had the persistence and the courage to speak out for women. ] (]) 17:04, 11 December 2020 (UTC) (PS, just so it's understood, like the rest of us Flyer does not walk on water! Re the MED sourcing disagreement, IMO Colin and Waid were right.) ] (]) 16:10, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
* You were one of the first editors I remember encountering on here when I first started editing many moons ago, and I've always been blown away by the heart and dedication you've poured into your contributions. If there's one thing I've always known about you, it's that your motives were always clear and never hidden. Though we may have disagreed at times, I never doubted that you always had WP's best interests at heart. No single editor can fill the gaping hole left behind in the wake of your departure. You will be sorely missed. May God bless you and your family during these difficult times. --] (]) 17:21, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
* This makes me so sad. You are one of our finest and our best. I can't bring myself to write that in the past tense. Take good care of yourself, Flyer, and come back to us whenever you're ready. As the Quakers say, I will hold you and your family in the Light. ] (] <nowiki>&#124;</nowiki> ]) 01:36, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
*Very sad to see WP lose a fine editor who contributed with a lot of heart and soul. I read enough of the discussion to come to the conclusion that you were railroaded. Best wishes and hope you return. ] (]) 02:40, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
*I feel terrible reading about your experiences with the virus, it's nightmarish that this is happening to anyone, let alone someone so recognizable to many people. We did not interact a lot but I've seen you tons of times and I'm well aware that you've done great work for Misplaced Pages. I'm also saddened to learn that you have had to deal with ANI issues and conflicts here on the site. Misplaced Pages will be worse off with you gone, but the most important thing is for you to make sure to do what's best for you and those close to you.] (]) 05:57, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
* I am very disappointed to see you leave, Flyer. As more editors like you leave the project Wikpedia will slide further into advocacy. Unfortunately ArbCom doesn't seem to appreciate that by accepting the case they would be perpetuating the harassment you are experiencing. Being put on trial and having to defend yourself is a stressful experience, and nobody should be put through that unless there is clearly a problem. I think they have been too quick in accepting the case. ArbCom should review the three ANI cases first and only take on the case if they feel that those cases arrived at the incorrect conclusions. I hope your family's fortunes pick up over Christmas. ] (]) 15:46, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
*We were never buddies, Flyer, but I greatly admire and respect the enormous responsibility you took over having our most contested and vandalized gender & sexuality articles on your Watchlist. An ArbCom case doesn't inevitably lead to sanctions but being a participant in a case proceeding can be taxing. Having lost my last aunt & uncle to COVID-19 this spring, my thoughts are with your family. Take a break from Misplaced Pages if this is stressful and tend to more important matters. But come back when this plague has lifted because the project needs you. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:29, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
*Flyer, it definitely sounds like you need and deserve a break from the grind here. I hope you are able to put the Arbcom nastiness and drama from your mind and focus on the real life things that really matter. I hope your family members get better and that you stay safe. Hang in there. <span style="font-family:times; text-shadow: 0 0 .2em #7af">~] <small>(])</small></span> 07:32, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
*Best wishes for your family's COVID troubles, I'm so sorry to hear it. I hope taking a break will help with the stress. ] (]) 15:34, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
*Best wishes for you and your family. You have been failed by two communities now, and that sucks, but I hope that both improve and we'll see you around again. [[User:Eggishorn|<span style="background-color:
#FF7400; color:
#FFFFFF;">Eggishorn</span>]] ] ] 19:42, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
* So very sad to see you go. I hope you and your family are well. This website has treated you terribly and over the years I've been witness to the number of times, by virtue of the areas you edit in, you have been harrassed or wikistalked, and it's very sad to see this final straw. I don't think we deserve you back; what you do deserve is a wonderful time in the real world :). Yours --] (]) 22:59, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
*I have not interacted with you, but I have seen your name here and there, and I am extremely disappointed to see another valued and principled editor leave the project, especially in this nasty/drama way. I admire greatly editors who roll their sleeves up and do the difficult work for the good of the encyclopedia. I hope that you are able to take a break, look after your family and come back to us when all is well again. Family comes first. ] (]) 07:17, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
*I'm sure I don't have to tell how personally grieved I would be if you left and didn't return. And also what a blow it would be the Misplaced Pages, and by extension the world. I'm sorry all this happened. I hope you change your mind. ] (]) 12:01, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
*Hi Flyer. We interacted a few times over the years. I have not been very active on Misplaced Pages during the past couple of years due to multiple issues, but I have always admired your work and dedication to improve Misplaced Pages. Best wishes to you and your family. ] (]) 03:48, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
*I only just noticed your retirement now. Thank you for all that you've done for Misplaced Pages and although this is a well deserved break I hope that you eventually consider editing again in better circumstances. Farewell, —]] – 17:17, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
* Too young to go. I don't know you personally, but I saw you many times at the Anatomy project talk page. You always tried to brush-up difficult pages (e.g. sex organs). I respect your efforts. Thank you and rest in peace. (or edit more at WikiHeaven!) --] (]) 13:08, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
* I can't believe this happened. I know we didn't interact much, but thank you for being with us on Misplaced Pages all these years. Goodbye friend. My condolences to the friends and family of Flyer22 Frozen. ] (]) 20:03, 23 April 2021 (UTC)


== why you delete my question == == A barnstar for you! ==

bro you delete my comment in the talk page thats what the talk page for is askin questions. why you deleting when im just askin?? bro this is targeted harassment just saying cuz i just ask a question in the talk page and you delete me like you're hitler and the boss of things just saying <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 00:19, 15 October 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Stating the obvious ==
You changed your name! I'll have to get used to it. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 00:52, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
:An intriguing change for sure. ] (] / ]) 02:01, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
== Proposed new user page image :-) ==
]
Insert appropriate caption as desired... ] (]) 04:01, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
== My apologies ==

for using the wrong pronoun ]. I need to be more careful. ] (]) 23:07, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

== Edits were reverted even though they were necessary and constructive ==

YOU UNDID MANY EDITS I MADE TO THE CAIS PAGE WHICH WERE NOT ONLY SCIENTIFICALLY ACCURATE BUT PROVIDE NECESSARY INSIGHT FROM ACTUAL INDIVIDUALS WITH THIS CONDITION. There were no politics included or unnecessary changes, only those that correct errors. I am a premedical genetics student with two degrees and a lifetime living with this condition. The page edits things that are crucial to public knowledge about the condition and are things that need to be brought to the attention of those researching the topic. Things added were clarifying and rephrasing, which did not require extra sources. The nomenclature in the article as it stands is out dated and hateful. This is not about activism. The CAIS page is flawed. You are partaking in oppressing this group of individuals by rolling back every one of the edits when they were objective and necessary to contributing to public knowledge. There is no harm in using the phrase "Affected individuals" or "Women with CAIS" Instead of "Genetic males." Except for its called politics when I make changes as if there is no agenda in referring to a group of individuals that are almost entirely made up of women as males when the term XY individual can be used instead. There is nothing unfactual about calling a person affected with CAIS "an individual with an XY karyotype" whereas choosing to push the narrative that women affected with this condition are "secretly males" only adds to the hate crimes and marginalization they face by providing leverage to the uneducated who point to this page and say "right here is says so."

Please change the edits back or at least go through and selectively remove that which violates guidelines. I am an expert on this topic and my nomenclature changes are valid.

Many of the sections you deleted that I revised included important information that the public should know when researching this condition that ARE objective fact. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 05:10, February 5, 2020 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Xsign -->

:: See ]. High quality sources required. ] (] · ] · ]) 07:18, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
: This screed apparently about ] by {{u|64.106.111.74}} at ]. ] (]) 10:02, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

:IP, the activism aspect of your comment seems to be directed at the text at the top of my talk page about activism. A lot of the material you added was ] in nature. And you even concluded a section you added by stating, "This section was written by CAIS individual/activist Chelsea Kaban based on her personal experiences as well as the testimonies of other CAIS individuals." And that is what I saw when reverting your edit via ], as is clear by my WP:Huggle message on your talk page pointing to edit. I hadn't even realized all of what I reverted. Either way, there were ] issues with your text. Anyway, as seen with and edit, I restored your language without the soapbox material and unsourced material. I don't mind forgoing use of "genetic males" for the text. ] (]) 00:54, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. I apologize for being aggressive but being discriminated against my whole life for having this condition has made me very responsive to such things. I spent a lot of time editing this page hoping that as individuals learn more about it, it would not further their narrative that its okay to objectify or misgender CAIS individuals (for example, calling me a man after I refuse to sleep with them because "it says so online." I responded swiftly when I saw my edits fully reversed including the ones that were merely changes in language that did not affect the actual meaning. I took this as an assertion from you that women with CAIS should be referred to as males as if that was the only scientifically based way to appropriately refer to them. Thank you for changing at least the language back so that my efforts were not in vain and so that future readers can get a more accurate and less derrogatory understanding of CAIS. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small>
:You're welcome, IP. ] (]) 00:15, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Hello Flayer22. Sorry for the edith I did that reverted. Its just that I'm new and has not yet mastered the whole of editing 04:17, 1 June 2020 (UTC) <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== How do I change citations without having to retype all of my edits? ==

Hello, I can change the citations, but I don't want to have to retype everything. How do I go about doing that? ] (]) 02:07, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

== Roostnerve ==

I'm going guess the user is unrelated to User2083146168. There's some notable spelling differences in the edit summaries and CUs have been done on User2083146168 since Roostnerve account was created. ] ] 03:40, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
:], looking at ], I see what you mean by "CUs have been done on User2083146168 since Roostnerve account was created." But it appears that only one CU has been done on the account since, and that this was done by ]. The CU tool has been beaten times before, and I've had to identify socks in contrast to what previous CUs identified. I know that it seems iffy that the Roostnerve account could have been overlooked, but socks have used different IPs for different sleepers. What's clear to me is that Roostnerve is someone's sock. There are three <del>candidates</del> suspects I have for the master account, and I'm talking that over with editors via email. Obviously, User2083146168 is <del>one of the candidates.</del> the main suspect. Roostnerve is the one I'm focused on. The other two seem unlikely.

:I've looked at both the User2083146168 and Roostnerve accounts thoroughly. In addition to having seen a number of similarities from first glance, the Editor Interaction Analyser significant overlap, and that speaks volumes...given how new the Roostnerve account is. Overlap like that just doesn't happen that quickly. Maybe there's meatpuppetry involved since User2083146168 has apparently been known to bring in meatpuppets. Either way, for me, this is similar to recent case. And just like the editor in that case blanked their talk page after I was clear about what other account I believe them to be operating, Roostnerve did the same. In my experience, that (the immediate blanking) is only done when a sock (or meatpuppet) has been correctly identified. Often, it's best to wait for more evidence since the Roostnerve account is so new, but I didn't think that was best in this case because of how problematic User2083146168 is. The only thing to me that indicates that they are different people is that User2083146168 used '''"lede" instead of "lead."''' But socks have changed their spelling and other things about their editing to avoid detection before. And that "lede" spelling is one thing indicating that they are different people versus all of the other things indicating that they are the same person, including the fact that, as seen , User2083146168 would state "Add see also." As seen and , Roostnerve does the same. Yes, a number of editors have stated such in their edit summaries, but some editors, such as those more focused on the See also section, state it significantly more than others. Editors may also state it differently. For example, some editors might state "add see also" or just "see also." And when similarities are taken together with other similarities, such as both User2083146168 and Roostnerve '''using "2" instead of "two"''' in their edit summaries, as seen and , those things that seem like small similarities start to add up. The User2083146168 and Roostnerve accounts also both consistently link to URLs in their edit summaries. And there are other similarities. Anyway, when seeing this, I felt that I should alert (including CU ]) who have interacted and/or are familiar with this editor to the matter. If CUs don't find anything, then that's that for now. Again, this wouldn't be the first time I've had to wait before finally getting a sock identified. ] (]) 05:08, 15 February 2020 (UTC) <small> Updated post. ] (]) 23:04, 15 February 2020 (UTC) </small>
::{{confirmed}} to BecomeFree and FindYourPly. ] (]) 05:19, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
:: Unfortunately, it's not that difficult to get around the CU tool. It's only as good as the person using it, and there are numerous technical limitations that restrict its usefulness. ] (]) 06:10, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
:::This all reminds me of ] recent sock case I started. I turned in two accounts, and CU connected those two and two others, but left a 5th account (which was actually the oldest) untouched. I had to report it to the CU in question directly, at which point it was run again and the 5th account was blocked. <span style="font-family:Palatino">]</span> <sup>]</sup> 06:22, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

:::], I know I thanked you via ]. But thanks again for trusting my statements enough to run a CU and identify Roostnerve as a sock of User2083146168. ] (]) 23:04, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

:::Also, it seems I was off in stating that "it appears that only one CU has been done on the account since." But anyway. ] (]) 23:12, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

== I know ==

but I didn't change the sources

also it is not synonyms

fiends are group of beings including demons, devils, succubi, incubi, imps and hell monsters

] (]) 14:15, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
:{{tq|fiends are group of beings including demons, devils, succubi, incubi, imps and hell monsters}}. Well then. Truly one learns something new every day. <span style="font-family:Palatino">]</span> <sup>]</sup> 23:07, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
::Since the user has been pinged back: On a serious note, one's personal understanding of how to categorize these folklore entities does not matter. We go by what the sources say. And I think the user who made this complaint should slow down and not recategorize all these things, especially since they have been reverted by various other editors. <span style="font-family:Palatino">]</span> <sup>]</sup> 23:27, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
:], I never stated that you changed the sources. The sources stating "demon" rather than "fiend" is part of the issue. I don't see how I can be any clearer than I was . I would rather not have to start a ] on this. ] (]) 23:19, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

:: I mean I didn't change the quotations

:: no this terms meaning change depends on series or religion

:: so u r not wrong at all

] (]) 02:08, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

== Precious anniversary ==
{{User QAIbox
| title = Precious
| image = Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg
| image_upright = 0.45
| bold = ]
}}
--] (]) 07:56, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
:Thanks, ]. And I thank you and ] for your commentary . I got a chuckle out of the wish for me to "melt again."

:I'm trying to think if working on the Clitoris or Vagina article was more difficult, given an editor issue that went on with the latter. But working on both has been challenging. Because of further improvements, the Clitoris article has changed significantly since its GA elevation. And there are more improvements I need to make to it. I might also change its reference format. Right now, a class is looking to edit it; so I have to work on it in that regard as well. I will also of course improve the Vagina article as time passes. ] (]) 23:31, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

== Katherine Johnson ==
Hi Flyer22. I apologize for not posting to the talk page before submitting the GAN. Thank you for raising your concerns. I hope you concur with the ongoing developments to the article. I welcome the opportunity to collaborate with you and others to further strengthen the article. All the best, ] (]) 01:30, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

== ] ==

I've mentioned Johnbellgotahaircut who might have a COI. ] ] 10:14, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

== Thank you for being one of Misplaced Pages's top medical contributors! ==


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== Farewell barnstar ==
Thanks again :-) -- ] along with the rest of the team at ''']''' 18:35, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
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== Arbitration case opened ==

In 2018, you offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has now accepted that request for arbitration, and an arbitration case has been opened at ]. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at ]. Please add your evidence by March 23, 2020, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, ]. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration.

All content, links, and diffs from the ] and the ] are being read into the evidence for this case.

The secondary mailing list is in use for this case: arbcom-en-b@wikimedia.org

For the Arbitration Committee, ] (]) 17:39, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

== "We New Zealand"? ==

:P (P.S. Yes, I'm totally joking) --]-] 20:56, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

:], I thought about leaving a ] to note that I meant "Notice that we state 'New Zealand', not 'NZ.'" But by the time I thought about that, I'd already made a second edit summary, and decided to let the matter go, figuring that people would recognize it as a typo. ] (]) 23:11, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
::I get that it's a typo, I just wanted to joke around with you. --]-] 21:32, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

== User Lepintin is at it again ==

Dear respected Flier 22 Frozen, I noticed weird redirects from a person you warned before; ] (]) 21:00, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

== Wayman Mitchell AfD ==
Feel free to vote at ].--] (]) 18:10, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

== Barnstar!!! ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
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|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | This is for your valuable efforts on countering ] and protecting Misplaced Pages from it's threats. I appreciate your effort. You are a defender of Misplaced Pages. Thank you. '''] ]''' 06:43, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
|}<!--template:The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar-->


|style="font-size:1.65em; padding:0; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Working Woman's Barnstar'''
== Edits on Phimosis Article ==

Having made a number of edits on the phimosis article<ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/Phimosis</ref>, you mentioned in the "view history" section that better sourcing is needed. The source of information I used was the UK National Health Service (NHS) <ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/National_Health_Service</ref><ref>https://www.nhs.uk</ref>. It is a very trusted source of information and very reliable. I believe my edits should be put back on the article. ] (]) 23:45, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

:I'm familiar with the NHS. Did you take the time to read ]?

:Pinging ] since he also watches the ] article. ] (]) 02:51, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
::Undue weight in the lead of that article. Already in the article on circumcision. ] (] · ] · ]) 14:30, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

____
{{reflist-talk}}

== Hello ==

Hi flyer22 frozen,are you an admin ] (]) 08:55, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you!! ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
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|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar'''
|- |-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | This is for your valuable efforts on countering ] and protecting Misplaced Pages from its threats. I appreciate your effort. You are a defender of Misplaced Pages. Thank you. '''] ]''' 09:52, 4 May 2020 (UTC) |style="border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For all of your dedication to helping improve this site for over a decade, I feel you deserve some props. I feel very grateful for how we crossed paths and know I'm far from the only one who values your contributions. ] (] / ]) 00:30, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
|}
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== Testing == == Comment ==


Sorry for bothering but I gave a test at ] in regards to the Nomura art and how it changed. I'm not sure about it but feel free to revert in case it doesn't work. I thought the art might fit there since it's discussed while the infobox changed was inspired to me by ]. Cheers.] (]) 00:06, 14 May 2020 (UTC) Wiki MUST change the arbitration system. Maybe do it in private in the beginning and then open it up for comment before decision making. Sorry for my outburst on your talk page. I am just a simple editor. ] (]) 04:57, 15 December 2020 (UTC)


==Best wishes==
== I was providing context ==
Flyer22, I'm not at all caught up (like maybe 1 percent), but I still wanted to first and foremost extend my best wishes to you and your family and to your collective health.


:A candle among roses
My edit does conform. The article was too biased in favor of the Americans who dehumanized the Japanese. I did not dismiss the crimes committed against non-Americans, I am simply pointing out that when even the US government at the time recognized that Japan had the moral high ground over the US (and only the US mind you), you have to give credit where credit is due. That is a Neutal point of view.
:In the evening garden
] (]) 03:29, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
:A shooting star
:Regarding ? Oh, yes, nothing POV about the following: "As a result, war crimes committed by the Japanese towards Americans should be taken with a grain of salt." As is clear by our ] policy, being neutral on Misplaced Pages does not mean what being neutral means in common discourse. Also read ]. ] (]) 22:26, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
:A flash of the moon's gown
:A spark of the sun's hem
:In syncopated eclipse


:Emissary of day
== Help with figure skating ==
:In night's dark kingdom
:Unseen at home
:Lucid in exile
:Opposite of the moth
:The firefly is light


:<small>--]</small>
Well, not technically help with figure skating, since not speaking for you, I only watch it. ;)


All the best, ] 08:20, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
Hey pal, hope all is well with you and yours during this strange time. So I just finished improving ] and wanted your input. Would you mind? I need assistance with the prose/tone/etc. with really just one section: ]. Can you also look at the few paragraph that talk about Johnny's coming out and related topics in these sections: 2005–2006 season (paragraphs 1, 4), 2009–2010 season (paragraphs 1, 4, 6), 2010–2013 (paragraph 1), Broadcasting career (paragraph 1). I'm so sensitive about how my prose comes across when I try and write about topics I know little about, so I'd appreciate the assist. ] (]) 18:47, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
:Hey, Christine. I have a lot going on right now, and the only time I usually allow for Misplaced Pages is to log on, catch up on my watchlist and revert and/or weigh in on anything that I feel I should or need to weigh in on. I'm about getting on and off Misplaced Pages as soon as I can (although it usually takes hours for me to log off). So I'm not involved in much article building and/or collaborating these days. And I don't think I would do you justice on the matter above. From what little I've scanned of the text, it looks like you've done fine. ] is someone who often copyedits and might be willing to take a look. I apologize for not helping you out on this. ] (]) 20:42, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
::No, that's fine. I'll reach out to Popcornfud, and perhaps throw you an email in the next couple of days. I'm gratified that you think what's there is, uh, fine. ;) Take care! ] (]) 23:15, 26 May 2020 (UTC)


:I think the light is gone out. ] ] 11:15, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
== The edit I made to Churchill ==
::That's what I understand as well, and unfortunately while she was under the burden of an arbitration case. ] (]) 14:28, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
:::Sad news indeed. She did so much amazing work here. Created high quality and needed content in a very difficult topic area. She will be impossible to replace and will be much missed by many. ] (] · ] · ]) 14:39, 21 January 2021 (UTC)


== A barnstar for you! ==
Sorry Flyer22 for the edit I made that you reverted. Its just I'm new to the system and hasn't yet been accustomed to the ways and workings of the system. 04:22, 1 June 2020 (UTC) <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
==That user is making a lot of disruptive edits==
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=I_Will_Always_Love_You&diff=960097603&oldid=960057960
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar'''

I have also reverted a couple of their genre changes. ] (]) 22:06, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
:Yes, I know. Just waiting for someone to indefinitely block the editor, like I would do if I had the tools. Didn't feel like gathering evidence and reporting the editor at ]. ] (]) 00:38, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

== Help at ] and ] ==

Hi Flyer22, hope that you're well! Would you be able to help me out on ]? Somehow I've ended up editing some ] articles of late and I stumbled upon ] and ]. My thoughts are that there are two images of the female meatus and I would like your help working out which better represents the topic. Both have I think benefits and downsides. One is in a sterile clinical context which I think highlights the anatomy well but is overly medicalised and I don't think demonstrates what it actually looks like in average people. The second image is, in my opinion, overly casual in how it is taken and I think of poorer quality. Would you mind having a look and we can continue the discussion on the talk page? Cheers --] (]) 06:48, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

{{You've got mail}} ] (]) 15:59, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

== revert on ] ==

Sorry about that. Both your reverts of the vandalism and mine just got added to the queue of pending revisions on that article, and I thought it'd be safest to reject them all in case either of us had missed one. ]&nbsp;] 00:29, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
:Late reply: ], yes, I figured you were simply correcting matters. And then I looked. Stuff like that happens all the time. ] (]) 23:36, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
== French diaspora ==

Hey I’d like you to tell me why did you change what I made as changes like there are the sources, what’s the problem with the sources? ] (]) 20:56, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
:], it looked like you (as an IP) were simply changing numbers not based on any sourcing. If supported by the sourcing, feel free to revert me. ] (]) 23:36, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

== Barnstar! ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | ]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar'''
|- |-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | This is for your valuable efforts on countering ] and protecting Misplaced Pages from it's threats. I appreciate your effort. You are a defender of Misplaced Pages. Thank you. '''] ]''' 06:08, 20 June 2020 (UTC) |style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | In recognition of all the years you spent making Misplaced Pages better than you found it. ] (] · ] · ]) 14:47, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
|}
|}<!--template:The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar-->


== why was someone's edit to to the coup list reverted? ==


{{user precious|header=child protection|thanks=, user with significant knowledge in the ]/]/]/] fields, for quality unbiased articles on these topics, such as ] and ], for explaining {{diff|Sexual orientation|519445357||edit summaries}}, for your firm stance on child protection, for your collection of vandalism moments, -}}
the 1933 thai coup is a well documented and verified event?
You are recipient no. ] of Precious, a prize of ]. --] (]) 10:41, 24 September 2014 (UTC)


Nothing to add but that you were unique - dealing bravely with topics others would not dare to touch - and you will be missed and remembered. --] (]) 15:57, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
== ] ==


==Rest in Peace==
I appreciate you taking note of this. I wanted to start trimming the personal life/controversies/legal issues section as much of it is just sensationalist tabloid material but wasn't sure where to begin. He's done some dumb stuff in his past but I think the tabloids have been unfairly dragging his name through the mud for some time.--] (]) 16:39, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
Reading of your passing is sad news. You did so much to improve and protect the project. You will be sadly missed here and, I feel sure, in real life. My deepest condolences to your family and friends. ]&#124;] 15:58, 21 January 2021 (UTC)


I am truly sadden by this news. Fly was my friend! I first met her back in 2014, while working on ], a soap opera article we brought to FA--at the time, the sixth and the third FA about a soap character. Fly was a polarizing figure here on WP (you either loved her or well, didn't love her), but she always treated me with respect and kindness. We supported each other and were always there for each other. I was always appalled about how factions of WP treated her. She was a dedicated and passionate editor. I loved her and will miss her, and WP (and the world) will be a much, much sadder place without her. My condolences to her family. ] (]) 16:25, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
== ] and consensus ==


== Sad cat ==
Because other project participants did not answered my questions in April: "Why do you think ] is still not met? --Sharouser (talk) 01:07, 3 April 2020 (UTC)" "Why do you think that some sentences are unverified? --Sharouser (talk) 14:48, 24 April 2020 (UTC)".


]
On May 31, I said "I will restore this article in June. I will insert more references. --Sharouser (talk) 01:38, 31 May 2020 (UTC)" in ]. Because no one replied, I restored this article per weak consensus. So this article should be restored. --] (]) 02:30, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
<abbr title="Sad face" style="border-bottom: none;">]</abbr> —]] – 16:38, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
:{{ping|Sharouser}} The writing on that article is pretty bad to be honest. Many grammatical and logical mistakes. Let's talk about it somewhere else where other people can give input, perhaps ]. ] (]) 03:36, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
{{clear}}
:Actually I think ] would be the place to work on it. It has a lot of problems. ] (]) 03:40, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
::], see what is stated at the top of my talk page? This discussion will not continue here. I have started a discussion section But I'm not going to keep debating you on this matter. If you keep trying to restore this article to ], it will be taken to ]. ] (]) 22:14, 30 June 2020 (UTC)


== Been away for some years == == Rest in peace ==


Goodbye Flyer22. You will be missed. :( ] (]) 16:44, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
The addiction and obsession overcame me! Thanks for the welcome. Gradually(!) picking up where I left off, deep in AFC trying to empty the ever filling bath ] ] 07:16, 30 June 2020 (UTC)


I miss you, Flyer. My deepest condolences to your family for the loss of someone who was clearly a very special and caring person. I made a donation today to Oxfam Canada to honour you and to give myself hope that the work you have done for women and children will somehow continue. ] (] <nowiki>&#124;</nowiki> ]) 17:17, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
:If you don't wish to use your own talk page you are welcome to talk on mine. 07:24, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
::Who said that? Who's there?!? B...b...b...''Bathghost!?!'' ] (]) 04:26, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
::Ah, Timtrent! Or is it Faddle? In any case, sorry for getting spooked, you're welcome in my books, too, stranger! Especially if you want to contribute to an imaginary tournament of very real bots. But mainly just wondering how Flyer22 got frozen. Or when! ] (]) 04:36, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
:::{{u|InedibleHulk}}, By my name shall ye know me. I wonder what it is! ] ] 08:36, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
::::Are you the shadowy new familiar figure I met earlier at the {{u|Crossroads}}? That'd be pretty cool. Even if not, with your wonderful fiddle and his gently weeping guitar and the fabled Tambourine of Venus, we could rock the living socks off of Bremen and have Flyer back to her old self in no time! "Seriously" though, we were born under the same Wikimoon, Spring '06, real recognizes real by any name. But your secret's safe with me! ] (]) 09:12, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
::::Wait, fake memory! Met Crossroads at a forbidden userpage marked by a 22 and some ancient indecipherable squiggles. If that's Arabic for "Flyer", I'll eat my damned pointy hat! Anyway, I now believe we've not yet met. Perhaps some other Wikiday? ] (]) 09:26, 1 July 2020 (UTC)


* I don't recall working on any specific article with Flyer (I'm more a friend of a friend) - but I always respected what they had to say, and I CERTAINLY appreciate all the hard work they put in here at Misplaced Pages. I'm sorry to see this, and I offer my condolences to friends and family of someone who I viewed as a very good person. Rest well Flyer. ] (]) 17:28, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
== Thx for our feedback on Edit Warring ==
{{collapse top|Ave Maria}}
Ave Maria, gratia plena,


Maria, gratia plena,
Your feedback prompted a further rethink that does without 'reverting edit'. The only change would be inserting a clarifying footnote after 'consecutive edits':


Maria, gratia plena,
<div style="border: 2px solid #990000; background-color: #FFCCCC; border-radius: 1em; padding: 10px;">
An editor must not perform {{strong|more than three reverts}} on a {{strong|single page}}—whether involving the same or different material—within a {{strong|24-hour period}}. An edit or a series of consecutive edits<sup>*</sup> that undoes other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert. Violations of the rule often attract blocks of at least 24 hours. Fourth reverts just outside the 24-hour period may also be taken as evidence of edit-warring, especially if repeated or combined with other edit-warring behavior. See below for exemptions.
</div>
<sup>*</sup> That is, with no intervening edits anywhere on that page by another editor.


Ave, Ave, Dominus,
I realized that part of my confusion was interpreting 'consecutive' to mean that as long as no-one undid my edits — rather than edit elsewhere on the page without changing my edits — I was in the clear.


Dominus tecum.
Does this work for you? ] (]) 07:14, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
:Best to propose this on the talk page. It shouldn't simply be up to me. In the meantime, I'll think about it. ] (]) 03:38, 2 July 2020 (UTC)


Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus,
== Potential sock? ==


Et benedictus fructus ventris (tui),
I didn't want to accuse someone of being a sock or launch an investigation, but user Genericusername57 has edited along similar lines as FKC, but I didn't quite think that lined up since they have been around since 2018. I looked at by Genericusername57 and see they recreated the deleted ] article (after James Shupe was banned) and essentially picked up where James Shupe's edits left off. Worth checking? ] (]) 01:37, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
:They also engage in very similar edits to FKC, for example, editing the exact same books related to science and sexuality. I know there can be a crossover of interest, but check out the comment . Very similar to FKC. "Thank you, but this would require a source; it isn't obvious from the reviews listed here that the reception was mostly positive". That strikes me as very FKC'esque, he always said "thank you, but" when reverting an edit. {{ping|Crossroads}} also. Am I being too conspiratorial? ] (]) 01:41, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
::With all due respect, I consider this highly unlikely. The log for James Shupe just seems to show that they made a redirect by that name, to which name the article was later moved. I don't see FKC in the history of that article. Having been familiar with both of these editors' personalities over my time here, they very much are two different people. Additionally, there seems to be very little overlap in interest. Genericusername57 (who I will call Gnu57 per their signature for short) edits a lot in gender-related topics, not so much in sexuality/sexual orientation; Gnu57 also does stuff like help at ]. FKC on the other hand had little interest in gender but a lot in sexual orientation. I've seen that the both of them have other interests not shared by the other. Gnu57 has also sent a lot of non-notable porn stars to AfD, with no participation from FKC. With that revert at The Blank Slate, given the wider picture that I've mentioned, I don't see that phrasing as suspicious, and honestly, I don't think that sentence should be there, per ]. I do think that FKC will come back, but I suspect that he will not do so in sexology first, since he can see that you, me, and many others are familiar with his POV in that area; instead, he may do so in another of his areas of interest.
::I also see that Gnu57 reverted you recently at ], although they could easily have found it the same way as you. And, it would probably be a better strategy to work on cutting ] reviews first, then discuss on Talk what you think the lead summary should be. I've never had any reason to think they would try to push fringe views on sexual orientation.
::While I had considered FKC to be somewhat of pain because I could tell he had a POV favoring outdated social learning and Freudian ideas about sexual orientation, as he would fight to keep poorly sourced material that leaned that way, I consider Genericusername57 to be a very valuable editor, who is all around helpful, is neutral and often combats POV pushing, and is very good about examining sources critically. I understand if Flyer22 Frozen wishes to blank this discussion from her userpage for privacy's sake. <span style="font-family:Palatino">]</span> <sup>]</sup> 03:12, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
:::Thanks for your comments. The James Shupe article and heavy editing was the only thing that raised my eyebrows. And yes you can take it off. ] (]) 03:39, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
:::Oh, and the extensive comments in support of FKC on the article, in which they cited a bunch of religious sources... which Guy took a huge issue with. So I had my reasons. ] (]) 03:45, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
::::Oh yeah, I remember that. Note that Gnu57 stated, "] requires that we state unequivocally that conversion therapy is discredited." I can't imagine FKC saying that. As for presenting religious conservatives' POV, there is a case to be made for that to a reasonable extent. Readers should know what significant societal factions think, even though this may contradict the science. Has to be done carefully though. <span style="font-family:Palatino">]</span> <sup>]</sup> 04:01, 7 July 2020 (UTC)


Ventris tui, Jesus.
== Deleting information on Baheliya community. ==


Ave Maria!
Hello, I don't know why but you have deleted all the information provided by me on the Baheliya community in India. All the material was research based and sources were duly mentioned. It took lot of research and reading for collecting the information but you have deleted them without any reason. ] (]) 20:21, 7 July 2020 (UTC)


== Robert L Birmingham ==


Sancta Maria, Mater Dei,
<p>


Ora pro nobis peccatoribus,
Stop editing this page, as you do not know anything about the man’s favorite foods and quotations on that matter. I am throughly dismayed that you would prevent this information from being shared and appreciated by scholars. Kindly refrain from such behavior in the future. ] (]) 23:45, 8 July 2020 (UTC)</p>


Ora, ora pro nobis;
== ] ==


Ora, ora pro nobis peccatoribus,
Hello,
I think you have a expertise and experience with sexuality related articles, and I would like your advice.
I recently happened upon the article above, and was horrified by its tone. There seems to be a great deal of puffing up of a highly controversial book and its views, partly in the form of original research about what was a positive review or not.
I note that it in 2017 it looked like this. , which looks pretty good to me, and most of the material I have problems with was added by ], since blocked as a sock. I am inclined to revert to that version, but thought that I would ask your opinion first. --] (]) 23:04, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
:I haven't thoroughly looked into this yet. But I will state that positive reviews should be ] with negative reviews. It's best to look and see if the Reception section should be weighted more toward negative reviews or positive reviews. Or if the book received "a mixed reception" like the article currently claims. Use your best judgment. I may weigh in on the matter at a later date. ] (]) 03:01, 11 July 2020 (UTC)


Nunc et in hora mortis,
:I don't imagine that it received more positive than negative reviews. But that book, although I was aware of it and the controversy surrounding it, was not something high on my reading list. If I recall correctly, I only read some of it years ago. I didn't feel like forcing myself to read all of it, even for my studies. ] (]) 03:04, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
::{{tpw}} {{u|Slp1}} and Flyer22 Frozen, I've proposed to merge the article, with an explanation given at the destination. I also cut one review and copied the contents of another to the destination. <span style="font-family:Palatino">]</span> <sup>]</sup> 03:31, 11 July 2020 (UTC)


In hora mortis nostrae.
::My commentary on Freeknowledgecreator with regard to this is . ] (]) 03:41, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
== Persistent vandal at ] ==


In hora, hora mortis nostrae,
Fed up with reverting this troll - I have tried remarks on its talk page and details on talk but it has apparently become a game. --] (]) 00:56, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


In hora mortis nostrae.
== Volition ==


Ave Maria!
Have you had a chance to see the film '']'' just yet? I know you like quirky films like this so I wanted to let you know. ] (]) 20:04, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
{{cob}}
:Had not heard of it. Thanks for the suggestion. I recently watched '']'' and enjoyed it. Feels like it should be a television show. I went into that blind and didn't know it is based on a comic. Like reviewers (including YouTube ones) have noted, ] is truly a bonafide action star now. ] (]) 03:41, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
::Thank you for a great suggestion! I will definitely watch it and get back to you. ] (]) 04:35, 13 July 2020 (UTC) *''<u>no words to express</u>''--] (]) 17:50, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
:::Just finished watching the film. Wow. First of all, the camera loves Charlize Theron. She eats up almost every scene. I like how they are basically a good vampire version of ''The Avengers''. Great musical score and cinematography as well. Speaking of ''The Avengers'', did you know that the editor of ''The Old Guard'', Terilyn A. Shropshire, previously edited '']'', which featured none other than Samuel L. Jackson? ] (]) 10:35, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
::::Glad you enjoyed it. is a good article (from '']'') on Theron's evolution as an actress. It also speaks of how unconventional it is for a woman in her 40s to be an action star, and as bankable an action star as the male ones.


*You will be missed my friend. Love.]] 21:29, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
::::We are discussing how to categorize the film's genre if you are interested in reviewing the matter and commenting: ]. A permalink for it is (for a quick future reference whenever I archive these latest threads, and most of the previous threads that I blanked).


== Thank-you, Flyer ==
::::As for the editor, no, I didn't know that. Interesting. The lead of the Eve's Bayou article needs to note what it is about. I may have seen it before, or parts of it. Maybe while my mother was watching it. But maybe I haven't it. I might check it out this month in my free time. ] (]) 23:55, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

:::::Thanks for the discussion invite. I will try to participate when I have time. You have great taste in film! ] (]) 06:45, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

::::::Brief update: I just finished watching '']''. It's a really quirky Swedish science fiction film that I think you might like. ] (]) 01:40, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Have you had a chance to watch '']'' yet? I haven't had time, but if you had seen it, I was wondering what you thought. It's getting a lot of buzz. ] (]) 07:22, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

== Spotted hyena edit ==

I just wanted to point out that you removed my edit where I stated that the exception for low-ranking females being more dominant males is when it's a male cub born to a higher-ranking female. You claim that my statement is unsourced, however the next line states that hyena cubs take the rank directly below their mothers (regardless of gender). ] (]) 10:37, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
:. Keep this at the article talk page. ] (]) 23:55, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

== Help on your deletion of a jpg from edits to ] ==

] (]) 23:24, 14 July 2020 (UTC) Hello, Flyer22 Frozen, I understand your deletion of a jpg in my edits of ]'s page. However, I cannot figure out how to correctly do what I intend. If this is not the right place to ask, please forgive me. I am trying to replace the old Sticky book cover from 2006 with a new book cover of MacIsaac's 2019 book, Unpacking. I can't see where I do either step (1) remove the old jpg; or step (2) insert the new jpg in its place with the appropriate fair use status to avoid a copyright violation, etc. The image can be cited/used from either Amazon, Goodreads, or several reviews of the book. If you have other suggestions on either or both steps, I would appreciate that. Thanks!

== Istrebitel Sputnik(ov) ==
Hello, as pointed out correctly by several users, the current translation (along with the explanation) is completely wrong. Even the name is wrong: the second word should end in "-OV", which changes everything. So the title of the page should be changed. I tried to do it, but it says it had already been renamed. Really, this is a bit ridiculous. I explained it on the talk page: https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Istrebitel_Sputnik ] (]) 15:28, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

== Note at image of article Man ==

I thought I owe you an explaination: I am sorry but I was sloppy and didnt read properly past the element of "File:...". I am terrible at reading text I know, I am vegan and I keep buying things that have animal parts in it even though I was reading the label, I come home and proclaim "Look this doesnt have gelatine!", my partner then allways has to disappoint me when she reads it. ... Still, I am working on it, also for the sake of my shoping. ] (]) 09:09, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

== Sex in space ==

Well, my edit did fix the problem of sex in space being wrongly defined in the lead as human sex in space. It's not about the redirection, it's simply logically wrong, like having an article on life which in the lead defines life as human life. --] (]) 15:22, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
:], I replied briefly . But further commentary should be had here on my talk page or the article talk page. ] (]) 02:11, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
::{{ping|ExperiencedArticleFixer}} I agree with Flyer22 Frozen. It's not as simple as the analogy of an article on life defined as human life. Life is a much broader topic than sex. And even though animals have sex, it is of negligible importance importance when discussing sex in space and is of little interest beyond the biological aspects. Animal sex in space can be discussed at ], if at all. And by the way, the state of the article as it was before this debate is the ]. There should be no more reverts without a new consensus. (Feel free to move my comment to article talk if the discussion moves there). ] (]) 02:29, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

::{{ec}} And as made clear in the edit history, I'm not stating that this topic is only about humans, but it is overwhelmingly about them at this point in time. At this point in time, other types of life usually aren't the focus.

:: is how the "human sexual activity" aspect was presented in the lead before some tinkering with the lead sentence happened. An editor moved the "sex in space" bold text with edit. Then someone made edit. Then someone made and edit. And then I made edit. Maybe ] should be applied in this case. ] (]) 02:34, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
:::I read your arguments and still disagree. Misplaced Pages is read by all kinds of people looking for a conceptually clear source of info. Regardless of the focus of an article, sex cannot be defined as human sex. If Misplaced Pages is going to start committing and defending obvious definitional mistakes and category errors, I'm going to completely loose my faith in this project. This does not advance clear thinking. --] (]) 09:06, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

::::If it helps clear things up, your logic is based on several logical fallacies, the most prominent of which is inductive fallacy (faulty generalization). That's why it seems correct, but really that perception is based on an assumption that the usage of a word must encompass all definitions of that word, rather than a specific definition based on the context in which it's being used. That's not meant as an insult, but to help clear up any confusion based on a logical analysis of your premises and conclusion.

::::First, the article is about human sex in space. All one has to do is read it and it becomes crystal clear. The title does not need to be "human sex in space", because it's very apparent that no one else is having, or likely will ever have, sex in space. It need not even be spelled out in the lede, because it is patently obvious, and frankly doing either comes off as really condescending to the reader. (eg: What? Do you think I'm stupid?) The only possible reason for having sex in space is for the fun of sex and the psychological needs that satisfies. Do you think dogs will ever have sex in space, or that they even could. (I breed them, and, well ... let's just say he'd never get a hold of her in zero-g, and even on Earth, breeding an animal very often doesn't involve intercourse.) I guarantee that these rats and mice didn't have sex in space. They were artificially inseminated. So tell me, who else is having sex in space?

::::And I know what you're gonna say, but there is not one shred of evidence that aliens even have sex. They could all reproduce asexually by mitosis for all we know, like bacteria. Maybe they do and maybe they don't, but all our knowledge of it comes from Star Trek, ''Heavy Metal'' and ''Barbarella''.

::::So seriously, what point are you trying to make? If another species has sex in space, and reliable sources document it, then we can reformat the articles to match the new information, but until then there is no need to treat readers like they're idiots. We deal in reliably sourced information, not fictional conceptuality (except where reliably sourced, but even that is trivial in an article like this, and that never takes precedence over reality). ] (]) 10:50, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

:::::An inductive fallacy is committed when a conclusion made about all or many instances of a phenomenon is reached on the basis of just one or a few instances of that phenomenon. So, nothing to do with definitions. You need to establish definitions ''before'' you can commit an inductive fallacy. I think that you are conflating using universal domain for a concept, with using all definitions for a word at once. What I think you mean is that I'm not considering the implicit domain limitation here. But the domain is not yet established in the first few words of the article, other than by the title.

:::::The idea of animals having sex in outer space is not as ludicrous as you think. As soon as we take a couple of animals to space, they are probably going to try to have sex with each other.

:::::The point I'm trying to make is super simple: it's wrong to define sex as human sex. --] (]) 12:01, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
::::::Good news, I'm happy with the current text. --] (]) 22:57, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::::], per ], please don't break up an editor's post like you did to Zaereth's before I put his post back together. ] (]) 02:33, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::Oh, didn't know about that rule, sorry. --] (]) 08:33, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

==WikiProject invite==
{| width="90%" style="margin:0px; border:1px solid black; background-color:#98FB98; color:#000000;"
! style="text-align:left; padding-left:0.2em; padding-top:0.2em; padding-bottom:0.2em; padding-right:0.2em;" | ] Hello Flyer22 Frozen:
Thank you for your contributions to ]{{spaced ndash}}or ]{{spaced ndash}}related articles. I'd like to invite you to join ''']''', a ] to improve veganism and vegetarianism articles on Misplaced Pages and coverage of these topics.

If you would like to participate or ], please visit the ] for more information. Thanks! ] (]) 21:00, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
|}

== Stressing in a paragraph ==

Hi. Wanted to politely ask you about when you said human reproduction should be stressed in a paragraph about mammals. How exactly should that be done? I put human reproduction in the paragraph where it was about specifically humans. It said *most peole are heterosexual and its the most common type of them all" and then I would put that it's the only way human reproduction can happen. Later in the text its about mammals in general not just humans. So the text would go about how its the most common type for humans and the only way humans can reproduce and then later in the text how mammals also do it because its necessary for reproduction. That line that keeps getting removed isnt redundant at all because its about two different things - one about humans in particular (since the text in that part is about humans only, thats why it says "most people" not "most mammals") and about mostly animals (since the text in the part about mammals is mostly about animals, not particularly humans). The editor who previously reverted also didnt do it again, probably because he/she understood what was meant.
Thanks, and I hope this doesnt spark some dumb edit war. We dont need those. ] (]) 08:12, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
:], as you know, you were reverted by ] and by me. And Crossroads also made edit. And with edit, I stated, "This is something to on the article talk page." I stressed "article talk page" so that you would not bring this to my talk page. Please don't bring stuff like this to my talk page. Take it to the article talk page. ] (]) 00:37, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Whatever whatever. I just asked. I wont continue this because I dont see a reason for that. ] (]) 12:24, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

== Alan Bergman ==

Why do you keep editing his daughter alexia’s name out of the article? I’m new here and if I’m not doing it correctly please put her name back in there yourself how you would like it done. I knew Alan personally and I know he would want his daughters name here.
Many thanks. ] (]) 22:11, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
:], stuff like does not belong. It's a ] matter. As for the daughter's name, see ]. There is no need to include the non-notable daughter's name. On top of that, the section as a whole should be sourced per ]. ] (]) 22:15, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

She is a budding professional cellist who has worked with principle dancer Brandon Lawrence of the Birmingham royal ballet so she is notable. Please could you just put her name back, it was in there the last time I checked this page about a year or two ago.
Many thanks ] (]) 22:17, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==


{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;" {| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | ] |rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | ]
|rowspan="2" | |rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar''' |style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Special Barnstar'''
|- |-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Flyer, so much of it is thanks to you that I was able to develop and improve as an editor over the years -- not simply on Misplaced Pages but on other wikis as well, in addition to many collaborative efforts building shared documents. When I returned to Misplaced Pages and asked you a question on your talk page, you were so kind, welcoming, and helpful, and I felt 100% better about my return. I can't tell you how much I appreciated your guidance on Misplaced Pages matters. Over the years, whenever I saw you were involved with an article on Misplaced Pages, I felt that much more secure with the veracity and quality of that article. Your passing represents an immeasurable loss for Misplaced Pages as well as all the editors you've guided and helped in their development. ] (]) 17:22, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | This is for your valuable efforts on countering ] and protecting Misplaced Pages from it's threats. I appreciate your effort. You are a defender of Misplaced Pages. Thank you. '''] ]''' 10:11, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
|}
|}<!--template:The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar-->


I'm stunned by this news. Flyer was a boon to Misplaced Pages. Though I'm a seasonal editor at best, I am a frequent lurker -- referencing Misplaced Pages daily, using it as a place to begin my research using its sources. Many of those sources were vetted by Flyer as the articles I'd often reference were ones Flyer was involved with. Over the past seven years, I saw the dedication, effort, and devotion she put into improving and maintaining the qualities of these articles. It's nearly impossible for me to imagine a Misplaced Pages without her and I can only imagine the loss felt by her family and friends. It's even a struggle for myself to come to terms with and I didn't even know her name. I am so sorry for the devastating loss of Flyer experienced by her family and friends, beyond deeply saddened that Flyer passed, and I feel this is a major loss for Misplaced Pages.
== Suicide article ==


Thank-you, Flyer, for your guidance and your part in helping me develop as an editor and collaborator. I miss you so much on this site, you were a gift. ] (]) 17:22, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
Heya, how are you? I noticed your comment on on ]. wanting to do it in the first place is, in my opinion, the only thing that causes it, when compared to ways people carry it out. ] (]) 16:25, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
:], that is not the way we relay the causes. And the causes should be sourced. In the future, keep this at the article talk page. ] (]) 00:52, 8 August 2020 (UTC)


== MOS query == == We will miss you, Flyer22 ==
]
This is indeed a very sad day. I first crossed paths with Flyer22 nearly 10 years ago. My first thought was, "this guy must be an F-22 pilot". We've never had much interaction, because when she crossed my watchlist it was usually because of her relentless work in patrolling new edits. But I have had a chance to observe over the years, and see first hand some of what she <s>does</s>did through my activities at BLPN.


At Misplaced Pages, we're all supposed to be equal ... in theory. But, as Yogi Berra said, "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is."
Hi. I'm confused about what you mean by ] - particularly the "words as words" part. Should italics be used for page name links? - ] ''(they/them pronouns)'' ] 02:37, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
:] and ] are clear about using italics. I don't see what else to state. ] (]) 02:58, 8 August 2020 (UTC)


I've always been proud to be a part of Misplaced Pages. It's always been gratifying, if not somewhat humbling, to be able to work among so many people who are so incredibly intelligent and have such high integrity. But, like all society, there are always certain individuals who stand out among the crowd. People who you can look up to. Polyamorph. Materialscientist. SlimVirgin. Doc James up there. Seeing what Flyer22 has done for Misplaced Pages over the years, I have always held her in the highest esteem. She too has stood out among the crowd, and her loss is a devastating blow, not just to Misplaced Pages, but to her family and to the world. We will miss you Flyer22, and may whatever god, chi, or spirit you believe in take you and carry you. There are many here who will mourn this day for some time.
== Kanye West ==


Hi why did you delete my Kanye West edits? They're relevant to his page. ] (]) 05:56, 9 August 2020 (UTC) The force will be with you. Always. ] (]) 18:31, 21 January 2021 (UTC)


== Devastated ==
== MEDMOS and photo galleries ==


I cannot believe you're gone, Flyer22 Frozen. When I glanced at your talk page a few minutes ago, I thought you'd retired and I was going to leave a goodbye and thank you note to you, with a wish that you'd return to us one day.
Hi Flyer22, thank you for helping to improve the photo gallery in ]. Your assistance is greatly appreciated. ] (]) 15:33, 12 August 2020 (UTC)


But then I read further, and I'm devastated. :'( I remember our interactions from years ago, keeping BLPs free from bad content and being kind to one another. I am utterly saddened that those days are gone for good.
== Not interested in conversations with Colin and Sandy ==


Thank you so much for everything you did. Best wishes to your family. ] 19:16, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
Feel free to ping me whenever you would like my opinion, but please keep me out of conversations with those two. They are protected by Admins and the only one who will suffer by arguing with them is you. Hell, Arbcom rewrote their rules to help them and didn't even pretend to have a reason.] (]) 17:54, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
:], hi. Like I stated (followup edit ) to another editor backing away as well, I've gotten emails from editors stating that they are staying out of this. The "Not interested in conversations with Colin and Sandy" reason is the main reason that has been given.


== Very sad ==
:As for "They are protected by Admins and the only one who will suffer by arguing with them is you."? Editors also state that I am protected by admins. Either way, I do not see Sandy and Colin as some powerful beings one should fear going up against, and that is especially the case for Colin, who is usually a sporadic editor and has only become more active now that Doc James -- our most prolific medical editor -- no longer wants to participate on Misplaced Pages for obvious reasons. And the emails I received about this latest matter aren't about fear. They are about frustration and not wanting to be subjected to insults. It's also about not wanting to waste hours on the matter at hand. ] (]) 00:42, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
I've very sorry to have you leave us ] (]) 19:57, 21 January 2021 (UTC)


== Sad ==
::If you or anyone else want to understand a little more about my non-participation, there's a lot to see on my userpage and user talk page. --] (]) 16:25, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
::I '''really''' don't want to get more deeply involved in this, but frustration, not wanting to be insulted, and not wanting to waste time strike me as (1) exactly right, and (2) eerily familiar. (In fairness to {{u|AlmostFrancis}}, I'm pretty sure he's thinking about who has and who has not been blocked, as well as the ArbCom decision.) I've looked at the recent discussions, and I can see that there are some disagreements, and that more than one editor is expressing concern. For what it's worth, having a carefully and neutrally worded RfC may be more productive than lengthy discussions might be. And if that gets resistance, then ] is available, because there are discretionary sanctions in effect for everything about MOS, and doubly so if drug pricing is involved. --] (]) 20:58, 16 August 2020 (UTC)


So sorry to hear the news, greatest sympathies to Flyer22's family and friends. Although I had my disagreement's with Flyer22, I recognised she did important work especially in the area of ] which greatly improved and protected Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 20:05, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
== Your revert ==
I was just changing the redirect of the complicated title to Islamic Mysticism in Afghanistan to common simple redirect to Sufism in Afghanistan , just like Sufism in Bangladesh, Sufism in Afghanistan, Sufism in Jordan etc <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 06:12, 17 August 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


==In memory==
== I don't understand why my edit was removed ==
* Thanks for many contributions. Rest in peace and condolences to family and friends. ] (]) 21:02, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
*I'm shocked and saddened to hear this news. Flyer22 is an editor I've been familiar with for as long as I can remember in my Misplaced Pages experience, and literally the first editor I remember thinking about as a highly respectable and valuable contributor with a lot to teach others. Our interactions probably do not number that many, but I've seen a great number of their edits and talk page messages. Whether I agreed with her or not, I always saw Flyer22 as an intelligent and good faith contributor whose opinion I gave significant weight. There's no denying that she had a great many Misplaced Pages-specific skills, whether an eye for socks or an eye for finding good sources. She will be sorely missed; her edits have made a great impact on this encyclopedia both to us as editors and to our worldwide audience, whether they know it or not. — ] (''']''') 22:08, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
*This is devastating news. Flyer's work was first class and of immense benefit to Misplaced Pages. She will be greatly missed. ] (]) 00:40, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
*So very sad to hear. You are irreplaceable, Flyer22 Frozen. We will always love you. ] (]) 01:04, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
*RIP ... I'll always remember your diligence, tenacity, and passion for the project. Misplaced Pages is certainly a better place thanks to the contributions you made to the site. ''']'''] 08:10, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
*I'd like to add my condolences to Flyer22's family. I've spent a lot of time reviewing Flyer's contributions recently and would like to take this moment to say how much of an asset she was to the community. She will be missed. ]<sup>TT</sup>(]) 08:57, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
* I am very sad to learn of Flyer's passing. I did not know Flyer personally but we had some interactions on Misplaced Pages. Flyer dedicated so much of her time and energy researching and improving Misplaced Pages. We should all follow her example. Her contributions will last a very long time. This will be her legacy. Sincere condolences to her family and friends and loved ones. ] (]) 03:00, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
* Just now learning of this. Rest in peace, Flyer. Your work here is exceptional. <sup>Thanks,</sup>] ] 14:32, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
* Shocked and saddened. She was one of the editors I looked up to. My condolences to her family and friends. ''']&nbsp;]''' 16:32, 23 February 2021 (UTC)


== Very sad ==
I added a short paragraph to the article on homophilia adding another language where the word remains, apart from Norwegian. I don't understand why this violates verifiability policy or why the edit was removed. All someone needs to check it is a Modern Greek dictionary and the article already states that the word was created from Greek roots, so it's no surprise it also exists in Greek. The fact that it does not exist in Ancient Greek is also verifiable from a dictionary of Ancient Greek (except you cannot reference the absence of a word in a dictionary). If any other statement was in any way objectionable, I think that could have been marked in a somewhat less radical way than removing the whole paragraph... <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 23:01, 18 August 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


My condolences to your family and friends. ] (]) 21:24, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
== Edit to Forced Abortion ==
:Same, please take care, family and friends. ''']] (])''' 04:59, 22 January 2021 (UTC)


== Awful. ==
The sentence stated that "Even after the shift to a two-child policy in January 2016, the practice still occurs", which is not only of questionable veracity but stands in contrast to the practice's illegality in China - unless I'm mistaken there. Probably could use some elaboration on the latter half of the sentence. The source, in a page about forced abortion, is literally ''National Right to Life News''. A quick glance at the page and you'll see it's obviously not a source to be used here. I felt like the easiest course of action was thereby to just remove this extraneous claim. New to editing so happy to hear how I should have proceeded. Is this really a situation that required me countering with credible sources? ] (]) 12:50, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
:], feel free to revert me. If there is a reputable source on the matter, though, then, yes, something about that should be there. ] (]) 02:02, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


This is awful, just awful. I don't ever recall feeling this shocked, upset, and sad about the notice of someone passing that I never met in real life. I'm really very, very upset. She leaves a hole that can never be filled. My condolences to ]; please pass on my thoughts to other members of your family, and let them know there are people who really cared and felt her presence, though in my case, never knew her personally. She will be deeply missed. If there is one Misplaced Pages editor I would have liked to meet in real life, and get to know, it was she; now I never shall. I am so sad. ] (]) 21:44, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
== Don't feel bad ==
:{{u|Mathglot}}, I feel this. I cried when I saw this. For about a hour. It hits you hard because many of us are faceless, pseudonymous comrades who carry the torch of the wiki. May you be granted peace in your grief. ]&#xFF5F;]&nbsp;]&#xFF60; 02:14, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
: I cried when I saw the news this morning, and I've been processing it all day. The loss is just immense. ] (] <nowiki>&#124;</nowiki> ]) 05:51, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
:: Not over this loss. I think about this void, my loss, Misplaced Pages's loss, every time I'm at an article which Flyer would have improved, or commented on. Trying to channel her, to figure out what she might have said or done; but I'm not up to that task, she was unique. Not over this. ] (]) 18:50, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
: This sucks. I'm p.o.'d. ] (]) 01:01, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
:: Still upset. ] (]) 09:36, 25 July 2022 (UTC)


== For those interested ==
He templated me too. It's so nice to know there are experienced editors willing to take time our of their busy days to guide newbies like us. I hope you saw my post on the talk page. It really was an accident that I removed your text. ]] 18:42, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
: {{re|EEng}} Now I really feel left out. Why am I the only long-term newbie not good enough to be templated? ] (]) 04:04, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
::Flyer and I have that effect on people. ]] 04:15, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


], written in 2013... I've protected Flyer's subpages, which included some drafts; if you want them unportected so you can work on them just ask. ]<sup>]/]</sup> 21:50, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
== Two things ==


== My Benediction For You ==
If you get any further pings from normal op, please let me know on my talk page. Pinging on purpose after being told to stop is a blockable offense. Alas, there is no way for me to watch your pings, so you will have to tell me


Peace to you and to your family. May your memory and contributions forever bless our project. You <s>were</s> are loved. I know I'll miss you. May we meet again on some wiki project in the next life. ]&#xFF5F;]&nbsp;]&#xFF60; 21:50, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
Re: "Sighs. I'm just going to state now that when you are again sanctioned for disruption, whether it concerns the PETA website or something else, I will state, 'Told you so.' ", that's most likely a bad idea. It could be seen as a form of ].


== May you rest peacefully in eternity ==
(The above is '''not''' to be interpreted as support or opposition in the underlying content dispute.) --] (]) 02:42, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
:], given my history with you, I would go to someone else about him if he kept at it. As for WP:GRAVEDANCING? When, in , I stated the "I'm just going to state now that when you are again sanctioned for disruption" stuff, I was speaking of the fact that I would comment in the ANI thread or whatever noticeboard on the matter, not after whatever sanction was implemented. And I did not mean that I would literally state "I told you so." Would I state that I felt that the editor would eventually be sanctioned and why? Yes.


*I was concerned to see that you had retired, and shocked to learn that you had passed. We never had the opportunity to interact, but I feel the loss of a good editor, nonetheless. My condolences to your survivors, all those you loved and befriended. Rest in peace, Flyer22. ] ] ] 22:39, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
:Also, I don't want this drama on my talk page. I left the ] matter up to the ] and haven't interacted with that editor for days. I don't see that you needed to drudge this up. ] (]) 03:15, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
::We will miss you; rest in peace, and my deepest sympathy to your family. ]] 00:22, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
:::Sad news. Your work in Misplaced Pages will be appreciate for the eternity. Rest in peace Flyer. --] (]) 00:37, 22 January 2021 (UTC)


== I'm so sad to learn of this ==
::Interesting claim; that "when you are again sanctioned" somehow means "not after whatever sanction was implemented". I can think of no possible response to that claim.


::Feel free to delete this thread if you don't want it on your talk page. Also feel free to request that I never post to your talk page again. But be aware that I take action to protect editors from abuse such as unwanted pings exactly the same way whether or not I previously had a disagreement with them about an unrelated issue. --] (]) 07:37, 22 August 2020 (UTC) I've crossed paths with Flyer so many times over the years, and I'm absolutely shocked and devastated to learn of her death. She made so many outstanding contributions to the project, and she will be much missed, as an editor and as a person. --] (]) 00:19, 22 January 2021 (UTC)


== Very upset to hear of this ... ==
::On second thought. am unwatching this page now and I don't believe that I will ever have a reason to post here again, given that Flyer22 Frozen has made it clear that they don't want or need my help. --] (]) 07:47, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


I've been thinking on this all day, and really can't put it well into words. I'm one of the few folks who knows Flyer22's name, and have spoken with her and her brother more than once. Behind the scenes, she did immense work on identifying banned editors - many pro-pedo ones - and this annoyed some of those folks, to the point that she was getting credible death threats and rape threats. I remember all that. Yet, she put her head down and kept working on the project, and did so for many years. I have a huge amount of respect for her and what she achieved, though we didn't always agree either. I am shocked and saddened that she is gone - I really don't know what to say - ] <sup>]</sup> 01:25, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
:::], nope, not an interesting claim. And even if I did state "I told you so" or similar after the editor was sanctioned, it's not like I would state so on the editor's talk page or go bragging about it all over Misplaced Pages. And if it's an "after the editor is sanctioned" matter, it would not be in the ANI thread or whatever noticeboard if the thread is closed. But if that ANI thread (or whatever) is still open after the editor has been sanctioned, could I validly state in that thread that I felt that the editor would eventually be sanctioned and why? Yes. Could I state it here on my talk page? Yes. And, in either case, that WP:GRAVEDANCING essay doesn't apply in my opinion.


:Wow. I never knew that part of the story, although it was apparent something had happened back then, I just never knew the details. That's pretty scary, but it explains a lot. I've had the privilege of talking with her on occasion, and offered her advice she didn't always agree with. I don't know her real name and never really gave it a thought. She'll always be Flyer22 to me.
:::I don't need to be guided on my conduct. I don't need your protection. And you are the last person who should be doing either as far as it pertains to me. You protecting me? Sighs. I have more than enough admins looking out for my well-being.
:::I'm not going to ban you from my talk page, if I haven't already. But I do not want you to comment in this section again. ] (]) 07:50, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


:I'm like Mathglot. I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes, over someone I've never really met. She was a shining star, and I'm just thinking ... hoping, that maybe she's up there somewhere, and maybe the sky won't be a little less bright tonight. ] (]) 02:01, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
:::More . And then he has the nerve to "teach" me how to mute someone, like I'm some newbie. ] (]) 08:23, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


:A great loss to Misplaced Pages. Condolences to her family and many friends, on and off wiki. For many years, she watched over important articles in sexuality and gender topics and that made her a target for some of the worst harassment on ENWP. Yet, she kept showing up in the true spirit of Wikipedians who believe in our mission. She will be greatly missed. Sydney Poore/]] 16:21, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
== Hello old friend ==


== Dreadful shock ==
{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:top;" | ]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;" | '''A beer on me!'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Here, my friend, some ] on me. Let's wear our hair loose, and shout out some distuned drinking songs. All for old times sake. (If you don't remember me, we met on the ] article, and you were one of the first persons I broke the good news when it became a GA). Cheers. ]<sup>(] • ])</sup> 00:53, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
|}
:], thanks. Yes, I remember you. It would be unusual for me to forget anyone I've interacted with beyond a few words, or beyond reporting them for vandalism (or other disruptive editing) once, on Misplaced Pages. I still see you at the Bikini article. I hope you are doing well. ] (]) 01:07, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
::Just came off a block, and waiting for my COVID test reports. Otherwise life is beautiful. It's so good to see old friends still around. ]<sup>(] • ])</sup> 01:12, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
:::I hope the test doesn't come back positive, of course. I'm not a beer drinker except for the occasional ] or other wine cooler. I'm not a coffee drinker either. Something to do with being a ]. But I could make an exception for certain people. ] (]) 01:27, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


Woke up today and saw this fell news. Daresay I'm at a loss for words, had difficulty believing my eyes at first. I've crossed paths with Flyer22 in countervandalism and counter-LTA activities often, and it to me seems a disastrous loss to the community as a whole. Flyer22 (as Alison mentioned above) did valuable work for the encyclopedia. Now we have only a hollow that can never be filled. Rest in peace, Flyer22. We'll never forget your contributions. My most heartfelt sympathy goes out to Flyer's family. '']]'' 02:13, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
== Muthuraja ==


== The North remembers ==
How to fishing work possible around Trichy Region. Which document is mentioned in Teluge community <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 05:54, 28 August 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


Just going over our old GoT debates, good times. If you happen to somehow read this, thanks for that. Sorry and good luck to friends and family reading this; from what she taught me at ] (twelve walls of text down), she seemed proud to be part of her pack. ] (]) 05:08, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
== Serial killer ==


{{small|Seven years on, I still think ], however. ] (]) 21:42, 22 January 2021 (UTC)}}
Long time since we talked about this article. Was at ] and was directed back to the ] article .....so again added sources . Pls take a look...copy edit at will. Last paragraph in lead at ] and last paragraph at ]. --<span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">]</span> <span style="color:red">🍁</span> 15:39, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
:Okay. ] (]) 06:23, 31 August 2020 (UTC)


== Rest in peace... this is devastating. ==
== Film plot ==


I never crossed paths with Flyer22 (only seen her in early January when I found them reverting some vandalism on articles under WPTC banner back in December), but seeing this news pretty much devastated me. Flyer22's death is devastating, devastating loss for Misplaced Pages. I don't have more words about this, but I am hoping that there is some editor that can rise up to fill the void. ''']]]''' 06:31, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Hey, there. I noticed you undid my recent edit on ]. My point is that plot sections do not provide things like production or reception; that's not what a plot is, and they have their own sections. ] (]) 22:43, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
* Devastating is exactly the right word. ] ] 16:06, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
:], I suggested that you take this to the guideline talk page so that it wouldn't be brought to my talk page. Please take this matter to the guideline talk page. ] (]) 22:53, 12 September 2020 (UTC)


== Miss you ==
== What was wrong with these sources? ==


I am devastated. You did so much good for me, for other editors, for Misplaced Pages, and yes, for the whole world. This site is the most used reference work there is, and you put so much work into making sure that so many topics, including especially important topics relating to women and children, were well covered. And you gave of yourself and persevered for so long in ensuring they continued to be of increasing quality. Your work has a ripple effect reaching ever outward, educating countless readers and from there, others. Your legacy lives forever.
I have been noticing how you keep removing my edits on ]
I also saw how you even mentioned me ]


Rest in peace, Flyer.
I will admit I made mistakes when editing articles.
But seriously, why did you have to remove these articles?


<span style="font-family:Palatino">]</span> <sup>]</sup> 06:45, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
https://rarediseases.org/rare-diseases/ovotesticular-disorder-of-sex-development/


== Vale ==
https://www.orpha.net/consor/cgi-bin/OC_Exp.php?lng=EN&Expert=2138


I'm really saddened to hear of this loss; for Flyer22's family, friends and for our community. Flyer22 was always an impassioned Wikipedian and I have worked with her for the better part of a decade now. She was, I believe, a fundamentally decent person and I hope her real life was less troubled than her Misplaced Pages existance where, like a bright warm light at night, she continually attracted editors with an unhealthy attention towards her. I'm so sad to here she has passed away of health issues and wish I could have got to meet her in real life to say hello and share a cup of tea. You'll be greatly missed, Flyer22. May you rest in peace. Vale. --] (]) 08:06, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Like I don't understand what was wrong with ] it is run by many academic institutions from 35 countries. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 06:05, 13 September 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:As you know, this is being discussed at WP:Med.


==A sadness and a hope==
:Also, you need to start signing your posts. How many times must a bot sign it for you? ] (]) 15:51, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
I am deeply saddened at the loss of Flyer. I feel that the work she did on ] and ] is the among the very best on Misplaced Pages. Thousands of people every day are coming to Misplaced Pages to find out more about these two deeply significant parts to the human body, and Flyer produced two well researched and well written, balanced, neutral, and informative articles that allow them to discover more. They are two shining examples of what Misplaced Pages is really good at, and they are Flyer's legacy. I had always hoped to work again with Flyer on another article or two of their quality. Sadly this will now not happen.


However, I am encouraged by her brother's comments in his email that Flyer's younger sister will probably be opening a Misplaced Pages account in the near future. I do hope that the sister will be welcomed, and will be encouraged to stay and pick up on Flyer's work. If she does open an account I pledge myself to offering her as much support, encouragement, protection, and advice as she needs to get settled. As part of that commitment, my first piece of advice is that the sister does not pick over the bones of any current or past disputes. Halo suggests she may do that, but that would not be a good idea. If the sister has any of the research skills, intelligence, determination, and courage of her sister, she will be a great asset to Misplaced Pages and may come close to equalling (or even exceeding) Flyer's achievements.
== Issues with Rollback ==


Goodbye Flyer and welcome (hopefully) to Flyer's sister. ] (]) 12:15, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
There are some recent reverts you have made with the rollback tool which do not contain a specific edit summary, which is required by ]. To wit:
:I appreciate your adding kind words. I want to clarify that Halo has since sent another email making clear that the only reason the younger sister would have joined is to confirm what happened and that's it. He said that won't be happening now as it doesn't seem needed. <span style="font-family:Palatino">]</span> <sup>]</sup> 17:55, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
* , , , , and do not appear to be vandalism (or the other appropriate uses of rollback without an edit summary).
This is a sample of some edits on one day last week and some much more recent, but the distribution makes me suspect that if I were to look at a larger sample or look more closely at other edits I would find many more. This is especially concerning because some of these edits were made by new editors--see here those edits on the menstrual cycle and sexual orientation--whose contributions should be handled with care and not summarily reverted. Each of these cases are situations where someone is on the cusp of learning about and contributing to wikipedia and in order to grow new editors is is imperative that we treat them with some respect.


==Very sad==
I understand that working inside Huggle creates the impression of time pressure and that scrutinizing edits which may seem like they don't improve the page can feel like a waste. However, editors should be able to expect that their contributions will only be summarily reverted under the conditions listed in the rollback guideline. To do otherwise is unfair to them and damaging to the encyclopedia as a whole.
I've had many positive interactions with Flyer over the past 15 years, and have seen the considerable good work she has done here and have only good memories. I will miss her. ] ] 13:49, 22 January 2021 (UTC)


*I am going to miss Flyer. She’s one of the bravest editors I have ever seen. Heart of gold and a spine of steel. A good human being. ]<sup>]</sup> 14:59, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Please slow down when using rollback and take care to use it according to the community guidance. ] (]) 19:30, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
**I am terribly sorry to hear this bad news. Flyer was a great editor and I had enormous respect for her work. She will be missed. ] ] 16:24, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
:], in those cases, I am using ], not WP:Rollback by itself. I am patrolling. And WP:Huggle states that it "is a diff browser intended for dealing with vandalism and other unconstructive edits on Wikimedia projects." at the ] article, for example, the editor was being disruptive. The editor had already been reverted more than once for being disruptive. And I reverted the editor for the same reason, with <del>a warning</del> Furthermore, as any patroller, such as admin ] can tell you, we do not always use an edit summary when reverting vandalism or unconstructive edits. In fact, we usually do not. Look at Materialscientist's latest edits . So why bother me and not him? Should I ping the many other patrollers to this talk page to make things clear? '''We've been over this before''', and the community was clear that we aren't going to sit there and explain each revert when using ] and WP:Huggle, especially when these tools gives us the option not to do so, and especially when the tools, depending on the option, will state what is necessary for us and will leave an appropriate message on the editor's talk page if the revert requires a message. You removed my rollback before, all the way back in 2014: ]. And '''the community overturned you on it''': ]. ] Do you want a redux? The vast majority of my edits when using either WP:STIki or WP:Huggle have been appropriate. I am scrutinizing the edits. And when I make a mistake, I revert myself. And that I made to the ] article? It was done manually. We are not obligated to explain every revert we make. Using edit summaries is optional, and (not factoring in WP:Huggle) I usually use them. ] (]) 19:58, 18 September 2020 (UTC) <small> Tweaked post. ] (]) 20:26, 18 September 2020 (UTC) </small>
**One of the best of the best. I worked with Flyer on several woman-related articles but watched over many more that she watched over. It was so reassuring to know that when she was involved in the editing women would be fairly treated--not by putting men down but by careful research that backed her positions. We were so lucky to have her and she will be sadly missed. ] (]) 18:23, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
**I want to add my voice to all of those who are going to miss Flyer. One of my earliest editing memories was being by Flyer; the civil, well-reasoned and instructive discussion we had afterwards motivated me to read sources, engage on talk pages, and made me more interested in getting involved in the project. she was inspirational, and I will miss her greatly. My deepest condolences to her family. ]] 18:29, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Flyer's retirement news was already saddening, so to now find out she has died is even worse. May this valued editor rest in peace. Misplaced Pages won't be the same without her! ] (] / ]) 23:47, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
* Requiescat in pace. Flyer was a mainstay of Misplaced Pages's women-related articles. Her knowledge and care will be tremendously missed. My condolences to her family and loved ones. ]] 07:31, 26 January 2021 (UTC)


== Vaya con Dios, Flyer22 ==
:I suggest you read what was stated last time, including by admins. If needed, I will ping every singe one of the editors who commented in support me of last time and who are still active.


I’m so sorry to hear about your passing. Thanks for everything you’ve done as a Misplaced Pages contributor. Rest In Peace. ] (] - ]) 01:47, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
:I just got through dealing with a hurricane, am now dealing with the aftermath, and I <del>do</del> do not need this blast from the past. I see that you've edited very sporadically since our last exchange over this; so maybe it feels like just yesterday for you. Whatever the case, I'm not interested in Round 2. ] (]) 20:26, 18 September 2020 (UTC)


==Farewell==
Reverting an edit without leaving a summary is permitted only in the instances I listed above. For those cases you are right in that no summary is required. In all other cases, an edit summary is required. Whether you use an intermediary such as huggle is beside the point. The underlying community guideline for the tool you use to make the reverts is clear.
{{cot|bg=#8000FF}}
{{quote|<poem>
As you set out for Ithaka
hope the voyage is a long one,
full of adventure, full of discovery.
Laistrygonians and Cyclops,
angry Poseidon—don’t be afraid of them:
you’ll never find things like that on your way
as long as you keep your thoughts raised high,
as long as a rare excitement
stirs your spirit and your body.
Laistrygonians and Cyclops,
wild Poseidon—you won’t encounter them
unless you bring them along inside your soul,
unless your soul sets them up in front of you.


Hope the voyage is a long one.
As for your comment about not having the time to deal with this, literally all I’m asking is that you take care when reverting edits and slow down such that you don’t inadvertently revert non-vandalism edits without a reason. If you consider that too burdensome than that’s a shame. ] (]) 20:36, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
May there be many a summer morning when,
:], all I'm asking you to do is be sensible and read the previous discussions. Do you not understand why the community stated that you are wrong on this matter? Do we really need to do this again? I do not get what you don't understand on this matter. I do not understand why you have singled me out again when I am doing what all patrollers do and for reasons made abundantly clear by the community before. They were clear that you are wrong that "In all other cases, an edit summary is required." I am not reverting edits to the point that I need to slow down. I see what I am doing, which is why I revert myself when making mistakes. I am not inadvertently reverting non-vandalism edits without a reason. For non-vandalism edits, I will often revert with WP:Huggle and then leave a message via ] about why I reverted the editor -- whether the edit was unconstructve, unsourced, spam, or something else. Many or most newbies do not check the edit history. So if they are still getting an explanation for why I reverted them, and in a much more efficient way than an edit summary, exactly what is the problem?
with what pleasure, what joy,
you come into harbors seen for the first time;
may you stop at Phoenician trading stations
to buy fine things,
mother of pearl and coral, amber and ebony,
sensual perfume of every kind—
as many sensual perfumes as you can;
and may you visit many Egyptian cities
to gather stores of knowledge from their scholars.


Keep Ithaka always in your mind.
:], since you also patrol, can I get your commentary on this? ] (]) 20:44, 18 September 2020 (UTC) <small> Tweaked post. ] (]) 21:38, 18 September 2020 (UTC) </small>
Arriving there is what you are destined for.
But do not hurry the journey at all.
Better if it lasts for years,
so you are old by the time you reach the island,
wealthy with all you have gained on the way,
not expecting Ithaka to make you rich.


Ithaka gave you the marvelous journey.
:Drmies, you also commented on this before, including ]. And we know how ] the ANI thread. ] (]) 21:03, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
Without her you would not have set out.
::Flyer, I have to agree with Protonk that at least a few of them weren't overt vandalism, though in all cases I think I agree with the actual edit. I do think that an edit summary is warranted. I would not support yanking rollback for these reasons, but strictly speaking Protonk is correct. Sorry--that may not be what you wanted from me, but let's AGF Protonk here, who's not threatening any sanctions or whatever. Your lengthy and positive history here means that it is very unlikely that someone is going to revoke any privileges, but you also have kind of a model function... Thanks, ] (]) 21:54, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
She has nothing left to give you now.


And if you find her poor, Ithaka won’t have fooled you.
:::], no, giving your honest opinion is fine. Did you review what you stated before, though? As for non-vandalism edits? To repeat what I above, "I will often revert with WP:Huggle and then leave a message via ] about why I reverted the editor -- whether the edit was unconstructve, unsourced, spam, or something else. Many or most newbies do not check the edit history. So if they are still getting an explanation for why I reverted them, and in a much more efficient way than an edit summary, exactly what is the problem?" The ANI close was clear that I shouldn't be singled out for something that is standard practice. I'd rather not do something that is unnecessary and when no other patroller is doing it. As for assuming good faith, do you remember how Protonk yanked my rollback rights before? It started like it started above. And he yanked them after I challenged him. It's clear from the discussions I linked to what others had to state on the matter. ] (]) 22:01, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
Wise as you will have become, so full of experience,
you will have understood by then what these Ithakas mean.


'''Ithaka'''
@Protonk: That's a very nice message but maintaining such a long-term interest in Flyer might not be desirable. Editors don't have to be perfect and no one can doubt Flyer's immensely positive contributions to the encyclopedia. In the last year or so it has become evident that many editors now apply rollback more freely. If that is seen as a big problem, why not start a central discussion on how strictly the WP:ROLLBACK guideline should be enforced. ] (]) 02:15, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
by C. P. Cavafy
:{{tps}} I'm in the same boat as Drmies here, in that I would have left an edit summary for those reverts, and that's what I teach students to do at CVUA. I agree with Johnuniq however that this is not unusual, and I very regularly see Huggle-using patrollers, some of them very experienced admins, doing stuff like this - Flyer22 is not an outlier here, and I don't think it's fair to single her out for criticism. I'd encourage Flyer to set an example and use a brief edit summary more often, but centralised discussion about the pros and cons of (re?)enforcing a strict reading of ROLLBACK would be necessary if anyone wants to wade in and try to change the culture amongst Hugglers. ]] 06:05, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
</poem>}}
::{{tps}} this is too petty for words. -] ] 08:06, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
{{cob}}
:::{{u|Roxy the dog}}, I'm probably being hyper-hyper-over-sensitive, but thought best to check. As I understand indenting, this looks like a reply to my comment - are you saying that my I'm being too petty for words? If so, I'd really like to know why - I put a lot of stock in your opinion, and would like to reflect if you think I'm being an ass. If you're not talking to me, I'll shuffle off.
:::While I'm here, I re-read my comment and realised that I didn't mention anything about Flyer's prolonged and prolific history of positive contributions - Drmies and Johnuniq make explicit mention of it, so I thought I'd better put that on the record too. Someone doing ''huge'' amounts of good work, which is in-line with the prevailing culture (even if not, strictly speaking, with the letter of the policy), does not deserve criticism of this sort. ]] 19:29, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
::::No ], certainly not. The vagaries of indenting continue to puzzle me after all this time. My point, worth emphasising again, is that the complaint is far far too petty to waste any time on. I suggest that F22 hat this section with a "Nothing to see in this astonishingly petty complaint" header. -] ] 19:34, 19 September 2020 (UTC)


:::::Woof! Woof! and I couldn't agree more. I rank Flyer with our top five editors who have done the most for women's topics in our encyclopedia. I keep several woman's issues articles on my watch list but I have always felt that Flyer was seeing that they were kept fair and unbiased. I hate to think where this place would be without her. Now this next part is about my personal experience with rollback and all these years later I still feel it was hurtful. I was editing a tree disease article that was heavily biased in favor of a certain pesticide. Again and again I tried to present RS information rather than what clearly came straight from a pesticide label and it was reverted. I tried to talk to the editor on the talk page but he did not engage with me. Finally he said right on my talk page that he was a dealer and he wanted to know what my angle was, assuming that I must be connected to a different chemical company, apparently. Then he made around ten edits of utter BS and, frustrated with him, I used my newly given rollback and deleted them. Next an admin blocked me for two days and took away my rollback. (He's an arbcom now, BTW.) I tried to fight it and got my two-day ban reduced to one (not by him--by a different admin). In almost 15 years this is the only time I've been convicted of something so egregious that I needed to be told I could not edit till I had been punished adequately. To sum it up, IMO experienced editors should be allowed to use discretion in some cases, and certainly when unregistered drive-by editors make edits. ] (]) 20:09, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
::::::"certainly when unregistered drive-by editors make edits" This would be against the spirit of ]: "Because of these misconceptions, edits by unregistered users are mistakenly reverted and their contributions to talk pages discounted. This practice is against the philosophy of Misplaced Pages and founding principles of all Wikimedia projects.". ] (]) 07:32, 20 September 2020 (UTC)


Farewell, Flyer. You made a difference. You did well. ] ]. ''L not Q''. 01:55, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
:::::::I treat both registered and unregistered editors talk page comments with equal respect, after all the very fact that they brought something to the talk page shows that they are a sincere and worthy editor. I do not delete unregistered users article edits willynilly, but when they are clearly not meant to be in good faith, extremely and obviously biased, outlandish, etc., I feel that my time is better spent improving our encyclopedia than wasting time on them. ] (]) 16:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
:::::::And by the way, speaking of talk page discussions there are few editors that have spent more time on talk pages going over the same arguments that come up over and over when it comes to, for one thing which I know about because I have argued with her, is the argument that men are as likely to be physically attacked by a partner as women are, that women as often as not are the ones that actually start the fight including both through verbal abuse and actual physical attack, and I don't remember what else--at any rate issues that have all been well-studied and proved to be untrue. And yet the arguments go on page after page. The idea that women were asking for it when they were beaten is still believed by many and women are lucky to have a fighter like Flyer working for good WP articles that are fair to women. ] (]) 20:04, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
*Just as an aside, and without wanting to turn this into a tit-for-tat, I wonder whether the edit summaries that {{u|Protonk}} used , , or , or indeed the lack of edit summary , were materially better than using no edit summary at all. These were all 'undos', rather than rollbacks, so of course there can have been no technical breach of ], but if the concern is the biting of newbs I'd argue that there's no functional difference - an edit summary which is boils down to 'no' is no different than leaving no edit summary at all, and an edit summary which mocks the editor who added the content ("lol no") is ''worse'' than no edit summary at all. Let's face it, we all do this or something like it at times, when something is obviously inappropriate - it's not something to make a big deal of. ]] 11:39, 20 September 2020 (UTC)


* Flyer and I sometimes communicated off Misplaced Pages so I considered her more than a collaborator. I was aware that some of her family members had contracted Covid, which partly contributed to her decision to not engage with Arb Com. I know that the Covid issues occurred before the business with Arb-Com so it was never an excuse, I genuinely believe she didn't feel up to dealing with it. I was already saddened by her decision to leave Misplaced Pages and I am genuinely upset at her passing. RIP Flyer, and I very much hope the rest of her family can come through this. ] (]) 21:18, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
== Thanks ==


== Respect ==
Yes, I knew you were looking into whether that "meat" editor was a sock. Stay safe from the tropical storms and I will try to stay safe from the wildfires. And that other thing. Be well. ] ] 06:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
I can't remember where or when we crossed paths, but I remember you. RIP. ✨ ] ] ✨ 03:46, 23 January 2021 (UTC)


==For all you have done== == A message ==
{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | ]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For all the years you have been editing Flyer22 Frozen you have worked diligently to protect Misplaced Pages from all manner of trolls and POV pushers. I present you this barnstar even though it is barely sufficient to express the gratitude that all your efforts deserve. ]&#124;] 20:14, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
|}{{z147}}


I never interacted with you on Misplaced Pages, but I am firm that you do amazing contributions. I cannot praise you in a way so grandeur, but I can just hope you rest there in peace. '''This will ''not'' be your last contribution.''' ''']]''' 04:50, 23 January 2021 (UTC)


== You've got mail == == Goodbye ==
I had contact with Flyer a fairly large number of times over the years. She quite frequently emailed me about various matters. I had a very high regard for her. She was conscientious and determined to do what she believed was best for Misplaced Pages, persisting in doing so even when others made it difficult for her to do so. She was in many ways very perceptive, and could often see through clouds of nonsense to the truth underneath when many others couldn't. Over the course of time I came to think of her as a friend, even though I never met her in the flesh, and knew nothing about her life away from Misplaced Pages. I shall miss her. ] (]) 21:24, 26 January 2021 (UTC)


== Thanks for the support with LGBT+ and medicine ==
{{You've got mail|dashlesssig=]] 15:28, 22 September 2020 (UTC)}}


Thanks for the regular constructive criticism in medicine and LGBT content. I appreciated having you as a colleague in both places as hardly anyone else navigates both of those busy spaces. You pushed for quality in a friendly way and were a model of good collaboration for giving original writing and ideas when asking for improvement. I respect that when you asked for favors, you yourself came proactively presenting a favor yourself.
== "Cycle of abuse" ==


🌈🌈🌈🩺💊🏥
Hi Flyer, I am not asking this about any article in particular but I did want to ask this considering it effects a number of articles. What do you think of the idea that those who were sexually abused are more likely to abuse others? Is there real evidence of this? I haven't seen anything very convincing given the prevalence of abuse, however it seems to be a common theme in the minds of the public and/or therapists. Is there any good scientific evidence to suggest so? It seems this idea has been challenged more and more through recent research. ''']''' (]) 22:13, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
:I'll get back to this. It seems you are speaking of child sexual abuse specifically. Obviously, a number of cases of the victims becoming child sexual abusers as adults exist, but it's certainly inaccurate to state, "This child was sexually abused. So this child will very likely become a child sexual abuser as an adult." And for women, since they commit child sexual abuse significantly less then men do, it's even less true for them. We do know that, in the case of ], it's often that the child is acting out/copying what was done to them. But that's different. ] (]) 23:27, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
::Indeed. I have read that some abusers also falsely make the claim that they were abused themselves to paint themselves as a victim. Obviously it's hard to find out what is true and false. I haven't done much reading in this area (and the stuff I have seems inconsistent). ''']''' (]) 10:42, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
::You need not put too much effort into this, I have found some Cantor material which suggests the cycle of abuse is largely a myth. ''']''' (]) 11:27, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
:::As soon as you brought up this topic, I thought of the discussions I've had about it at ], including what ] stated about it. I also might have talked with James via email about this. For this matter you've queried me on, I'm not going to address the topic of ] or ] in general. I'm going to focus solely on child sexual abuse.


]] 22:00, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
:::I started editing in 2007. And in 2008, I was still pretty much a newbie. And I state the same about my editing in 2009, considering that I still had so much to learn about Misplaced Pages in 2009. It's why I don't understand making anyone an administrator after only a year or two of editing here. Anyway, back in 2008 and 2009, I was studying different psychological and sexological topics (with the latter overlapping with anatomy). Formally studying them. There were a few I didn't need to study anymore. I was still coming into my own on these matters and had different professors telling me their opinions on these topics and citing their or others' research on them. So I stated things back then that I either don't fully agree with now or would somewhat or significantly disagree with now. Back then, I was a bigger believer in the cycle of child sexual abuse. I still wouldn't discount it by using the word ''myth'', even by saying "largely a myth", in reference to it, but I don't feel as strongly about it being a factor as I once did. And I never believed that most children who have been sexually abused become child sexual abusers as adults.


== RIP ==
:::At ], which addresses the beliefs of professors, you can see me listing different reports on the matter. I was citing media sources and other sources I would never cite today for such material. But those sources do show different reports on the matter. Some reports have stated that most sexual offenders were sexually abused as children. But this doesn't mean that most victims of child sexual abuse will become sexual offenders as adults. I stated back then that "It seems that we have three different reports -- One type is saying that most child molestrs and rapists were sexually abused. While the other is focusing more on saying that most children who are sexually abused will not become child molestrs themselves. And then we have the side that says most child molesters weren't sexually abused as children. It's a complicated topic." Another editor stated that we should "be very clear about the difference between retrospective and prospective research--the number of abusers who say they were abused is higher than the the number of people with verified abuse who became adult abusers. That's two different populations--the group 'abusers who say they were abused' and the group 'abused who became abusers.' The data on the abusers can't be extrapolated to the abused. Even allowing for self-reports, the population of abusers is not a representative sample of the abused."


Shocked and saddened to hear this, Flyer was a fantastic editor and they will be missed a lot, Thank you for each and every contribution you've made here Flyer, Rest in Peace. my sincere condolences to friends and family. –]<sup>]</sup> 00:11, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
:::At ], you can see that James weighed in. He stated, "ost of the existing research pertains to the frequency of child molestation in the histories of child molesters, not the frequency of child molestation in the history of pedophiles. Moreover, the evidence does not exactly say that child molestation begets child molestation so much as it says that people who grow up in chaotic households go on to lead chaotic lives: Child molesters also report having suffered physical (nonsexual) abuse and neglect in their own childhoods, and people who were molested in childhood are also at elevated risk of committing physical (nonsexual) abuse and neglect of their own children. That is, bad history begets bad future; there is little evidence for any specific assocations like molestation leading to molestation or neglect to neglect, etc. It is true that many psychologists and other mental health professionals ''without expertise in this specific part of the field'' still believe that there is a causal link, but this misconception is the same as many mismatches between science and the non-expert practitioner: Many psychologists also continue to believe in psychoanalysis, etc. despite the lack of empirical backing." And regarding pedophiles, he stated, "My own beliefs about whether there is a causal relationship between experiencing sexual abuse and subsequently developing pedophilia is pretty much along standard scientific thinking: Assume the null hypothesis until the data compel us to believe otherwise. It is not possible to prove a ''lack'' of a causal relationship between experiencing abuse and developing pedophilia. Rather, we assume there is no relationship until the data compel us to believe there ''is'' one. In the present state of affairs (for better or for worse), there is no proof in either direction; so, the scientifically superior hypothesis is (by default) that there is no causal association. Researchers have been attempting to demonstrate one for a very long time now, and still none has found one (other than in the general associations that I mentioned earlier). So, sooner or later, one has to take 'no' as an answer. The overall body of existing evidence is much more consistent with the idea that experiencing childhood sexual abuse is a disinibitor of antisocial behavior in general, not a cause of pedophilia per se." ] (]) 23:24, 24 September 2020 (UTC)


==A great loss to the community and our mission==
::::Thanks for such a detailed reply. ''']''' (]) 20:24, 26 September 2020 (UTC)


I wish that I'd had some knowledge that Flyer was unwell: I don't know whether she made this common knowledge or played the fact close to her vest, but despite her being one of the editors I most frequently ran into incidentally out in the wild of our talk pages (due to our shared interest in human nature as explored by hard science), I had no idea she was ill and apparently had been for some time. I think she and I probably had similar perspectives on matters slightly more often than not, but by the same token, we shared a work space often enough to experience many situations in which we disagreed and it was in these moments that she most impressed me with the qualities of a true Wikipedian--openness and a commitment to respectful discourse in pursuit of understanding. Oh, make no mistake: she was prepared to stick to her guns and hold a line against what she felt was a misrepresentation of the truth of an issue. But she tempered that drive and doggedness with wit, warmth, and perspective. She was truly the type of person who represents the best in this community, and whom we can point to as proof that our great task summons together people of real character and strength. I am not a spiritualist in any sense, so I cannot invoke the words of her name (the one I knew her best by) in a way that might otherwise be a comfort in this moment, to say that she has taken flight and will be reborn in a heavenly sense. But I can say with no less certainty and meaning that her works will indeed take flight, and her spirit will be reborn every day in a world and in the people made noticeably better for her presence.
== Thanks for all you do ==


Flyer, I'm sorry that I did not get to tell you any of this directly--looking back, I'm not sure I ever even seized an opportunity to say to you expressly that you were my friend. I will have to try to learn from that lesson and be more careful to take the time to say such things here. I can only say now that this is merely a part of what I have learned from you and that you have my enduring gratitude. ''] ]'' 00:32, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
I just wondered who else if anyone would remove that stuff from the lead. Well, no one else did. This really does show how right I was when I said I hate to think what our women's articles would look like with out your watchful eye. I don't see how anyone could then question your rollback decisions about them when they don't seem to find the time to watch and contribute to their upkeep. ] (]) 00:46, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
:I appreciate your support, Gandydancer. Regarding the article in question, do you mean recent edit I made? I'm sure that Crossroads would have handled it once back on. ] (]) 00:52, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
::Yes. ] (]) 23:54, 24 September 2020 (UTC)


:Beautiful words. ] (]) 01:52, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
== Precious anniversary ==
{{User QAIbox/auto|years=Six}} --] (]) 07:18, 24 September 2020 (UTC)


== Condolences ==
== Re: Your message about reverting edits ==


I am greatly saddened by this news and extend my deepest sympathies to all those who cared for Flyer22. ]! -] (]) 04:15, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
You wrote to me:
"Hello, I'm Flyer22 Frozen. I wanted to let you know that I reverted one of your recent contributions —specifically this edit to Fruitvale Bridge—because it did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the Help desk. Thanks. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 00:36, 25 September 2020 (UTC)"


== Goodbye. ==
I replied to you ~1hr later explaining my edits and asking what you found not constructive about them - you have not yet answered. I am at a loss to know why you found fault with my separating the info on two different bridges from a single page. Will you not explain?
] (]) 05:56, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
:], I wasn't going to reply via email. I typically need to be more familiar with an editor before doing that. I did think about posting to your talk page in response to emailing me, but I quickly got sidetracked because of other issues on Misplaced Pages.


] {{spaces|10}}] (]) 11:59, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
:As for reverting you, the revert looked problematic to me because you removed an infobox and made significant changes without discussion. You appeared to be a new editor doing something that would very likely need discussion. I'd meant to check back, but didn't. It doesn't seem to me that two articles are needed. I see that the article's talk page is tagged with ] and ]. You can ask those WikiProjects about whether a separate article is needed. If they agree with you or you get no response, feel free to move ahead with your plan. I don't feel strongly about the topic. I was patrolling via ]. ] (]) 00:20, 27 September 2020 (UTC)


== Zara Kay == == Sad to hear you're gone ==


Flyer, you and I had our differences, but I've always admired your devotion to this encyclopedia and your earnest efforts to make it better. You did a lot of good around here. My heart skipped a beat when I saw that you'd passed. No matter how many times we butted heads, this is not news I ever hoped to hear. Been thinking of you. <span style="font-family:Serifa">]]</span> 01:43, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
Hi Flyer22 Frozen I left a note for you on the article 's talk page regarding a revert you made. Feel free to take a look or discuss if you have any concerns ] (]) 05:55, 27 September 2020 (UTC)


== ClutchPoints == == Rest in peace ==


Thank you for working with me for so many years. I'm extremely saddened to learn that you are gone. You will be missed. ]<small>(formerly Tokyogirl79)</small>] 07:21, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
I saw about ClutchPoints at ]. My feeling is that ClutchPoints is a bit too much like a bloggy fansite. (FWIW, I generally think the same of SB Nation content.) I'm sure much of their straight-forward statements are ok, but generally there's more reliable sources for the same content. For opinions on somebody as high-profile as James, we should limit it to high-quality sources. If it was a strong opinion, some high-quality source surely must have written about it. Cheers.—] (]) 05:02, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
:And my followup note is .


== Farewell ==
:], I understood how you felt, and still feel, about the source. I don't consider it an deal source either. But like I noted, it's used throughout Misplaced Pages in basketball articles (which indicates to me that it's accepted since experienced editors allow that), I used ] and adhered to ], and the section (per its sources) is quite clear that its Jordan and James who are mainly discussed as the greatest. Sources, including the official NBA website, consistently call Jordan the greatest, and James is the main basketball player compared to Jordan. And it's often. So, yeah, it's a strong opinion. And the debate has flared up again because James might win his fourth ring. I stated that I would look at other sources stating "universal" or whatever. There might be something to use in the sources I included in that section. I am not pressed about this.


I am at a loss for what to say as this is honestly the first time I've truly felt a loss from the death on an online acquaintance/colleague. We crossed paths and conversed many times () given our overlapping interests. May the memory of Flyer be a blessing to all who knew her. ] ] 17:27, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
:In the future, will you take something like this to the article talk page? Also, maybe whether or not to use ClutchPoints at all needs to be discussed at ]. ] (]) 05:15, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
::I treated it as a ] on my part. Whether or not Clutch is in other articles is an ]-like issue. I'm not on a crusade currently to rid use of Clutch (or the like) on WP (]), but for a large topic like Jordan v. LeBron I did remove it. On a related issue, take a look at the similar ]. There, I found a bunch of sources that explicitly said "many consider ...". I prefer that over finding a few sources who state an opinion and than Misplaced Pages extrapolating and concluding that "many people have the opinion".—] (]) 05:34, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
:::] and per ], "These 'other stuff exists' arguments can be valid or invalid." My point about ClutchPoints being used all over Misplaced Pages in basketball articles is that it appears to be accepted as a valid source to use for NBA topics and that whether it should be used for what one feels it shouldn't be used for is not established. Opinions are opinions, which is why WP:In-text attribution and WP:WIKIVOICE have the guidance they have.


== Rest in peace shining star ==
:::As for a few sources? We both know that the "Jordan vs. James" thing (a very tired debate) is not just "a few sources" matter. And the sources I included in the ] for it explicitly make it clear that these two are often considered the greatest and are therefore often compared. And that is what those sources are used for in the article. They aren't used to state "many consider", or the like. As you know, per extensive discussion that took place on the article's talk page, stating that "many consider James the greatest" or similar was changed months ago. The sources I focused on, as seen in the latest archived discussion on this debate, are quality sources like 2019 "All-Time Player Rankings: NBA's Top 50 Revealed" ] source, which lists James second, after Jordan, and states, "Rings shouldn't be the only factor in this debate. But when it's this close, stacking the 6-0 Finals record up against 3-6 is a fair tiebreaker. And by the way, calling this 'close' is probably an undersell. After examining every catch-all metric and basic number imaginable from the regular season, playoffs and 10-year peaks, it's almost impossible to find any real space between these two." ] (]) 06:05, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
::::Re: Clutch, I get what you're saying. I'm contesting it here. You can start a larger discussion if you choose, but you also said "you don't consider it an deal source either". Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Jordan v. LeBron isn't a real debate. I was only suggesting that we find sources that summarize what "most people" are saying. There will be less disputes that way. Per ]: "Reliable sources may analyze and interpret, but for editors to do so would violate the Misplaced Pages:No original research or Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view policies."—] (]) 06:32, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
:::::], since I don't feel strongly about the ClutchPoints matter, which is why I didn't take it to the article's talk page, I don't see a need to debate it any further. As for "Reliable sources may analyze and interpret, but for editors to do so would violate the Misplaced Pages:No original research or Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view policies."? As a significantly experienced editor, I of course know that. You are needlessly telling me things that I tell newbies and other less-experienced editors all the time. Per the aforementioned WP:CITEBUNDLE, I am not going by my own analysis and interpretation. Those sources are explicitly about the GOAT (greatest of all time) and primarily discuss Jordan and James, and they are clear why they do. All I did was summarize what these sources state (just like we are supposed to summarize the literature unless quoting it). And when I used the ClutchPoints source, I adhered to WP:In-text attribution and WP:WIKIVOICE. Quoting ClutchPoints adheres to WP:WEASEL.


What sad news to hear that Flyer22 has passed on. Wherever you may be, surrounded by scintillating starlight and mysterious stardust, your contributions to this world were truly stellar. ] (]) 19:08, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
:::::As for less disputes? Not on this topic. And that is because, like 2019 "LeBron or MJ? How the King is settling the GOAT debate" ] source from the bundle notes, "The respective camps in the Jordan-LeBron debate reach their most frenzied pitch when they discuss which player had a harder time dominating in his era. To hear Jordan's supporters tell it, defenders were allowed open fisticuffs to prevent him from getting to the basket. Meanwhile, James' defenders would have you believe that Jordan was beating five guys from the Y to win his championships." And then, as mentioned by the aforementioned Bleacher Report source, analytics and the rings aspect are also part of the debate. It's a heated debate that will never go away, and Misplaced Pages editors are not immune to it. That is why I keep telling editors to go by what the sources state and with ], not their personal opinions/bias.


== Taken too soon... ==
:::::Let's move on now. ] (]) 07:10, 29 September 2020 (UTC)


You will be missed, Flyer. Thank you for leaving the memory of your legacy with us on Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 08:19, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
== Comments ==


== Farewell ==
Your input would be appreciated. Apologies in advance. ] (]) 17:25, 8 October 2020 (UTC)


I only just noticed this and can't think of what else to say. Flyer22 always had the encyclopedia's best interests at heart and contributed enormously to an area of Misplaced Pages I know very little about and did it fighting off conflicts that I think would have caused many others to retire much sooner instead of sticking it out. Please give my condolences to her family and friends. ] ] ] 16:18, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
== Sock hysteria ==


== Rest in peace ==
I'm sure nothing will come of it. Like you, I've been accused of socking because someone didn't like one of my edits. The way I look at it, I welcome an SPI on me because I don't sock. All the best! ] (]) 19:42, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
I thank Flyer22 for all the work she has done. I send my condolences to her family and friends. Rest in peace. You will be remembered. '''~''' ]]] 16:34, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
:], well, the matter in question isn't about me being a sock. It's about an editor who is actually a sock and deflecting on that by making the case about me. But thanks for the support. ] (]) 19:45, 9 October 2020 (UTC)


:I am very late in noticing this but I am saddened by Flyer's death and wish to add my tribute and condolences. She was an astute and prolific contributor. I had only passing interactions with her but all were positive. She took the time to thank me a number of times for edits and I always appreciated her acknowledgements. That personal touch was a wonderful addition to all her substantive contributions. ] (]) 08:05, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
== Why’d u delete my edit ==


== Frozen ==
Why did you delete my edit ?? ] (]) 06:42, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
]
I dedicate this image to your memory. --] (]) 20:20, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
:The icicles look like frozen musical notes, an étude in ice—a fitting tribute. ] (]) 22:20, 2 March 2021 (UTC)


== Condolences ==
== Sockpuppetry edit revert ==
I know I'm late to the funeral, but I was browsing an IP's TP when I saw a warning of yours. Seeing it, I miss you. Rest in peace. ] (]) 03:48, 5 March 2021 (UTC)


== Condolences ==
"Anyone who uses multiple accounts in good faith is not violating any policies, shall face no action, and no attempts shall be made to determine if such accounts are linked. But the use of additional accounts for some disruptive or otherwise deceptive purpose is a violation of Misplaced Pages's sockpuppetry policy." It also makes sense.


Extending my condolences to Flyer22 and her family (I only just found out about her passing). Sad to hear of the death of another young Wikipedian. ] (]) 18:34, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
Source: ] <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small>
:Have only just found out about this, also. Really sad to hear, I’m at a complete loss for words. Rest in peace, Flyer22. ]<sup>]</sup> 04:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)


== Thank you for everything you did ==
:], eh? Take my revert, which I stand by, to the policy talk page. Also, Misplaced Pages:Signs of sockpuppetry is not a policy or guideline. ] (]) 19:20, 12 October 2020 (UTC)


I haven't been active much and only realised the bad news a few days ago. You were a great contributor to this project and will be sorely missed. My condolences. ] (]: ]) 19:07, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
==David Ray Griffin==
]&nbsp;You are invited to join the discussion at ]. &#x0020;Thank you. ] (]) 01:32, 20 October 2020 (UTC){{Z48}}<!-- ] -->


== Reviewer needed == == R.I.P. ==


I haven't been that active on Misplaced Pages lately, so I was shocked to learn of Flyer22's passing while sorting through my watchlist. As someone who has worked and interacted with Flyer in film-related articles, I can attest that she was a productive and proficient member of this encyclopedia and her contributions have not gone unnoticed or unappreciated. On a more personal note, I only wish her family the best.
Hi, I hope you remember me from the ] article. Lately I have tried improving the ] article. I have taken the article for a ]. Would you take a look at the article and do a review? ]<sup>(] • ])</sup> 02:23, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
:Aditya Kabir, of course, I remember you. We recently talked in the ] section above and at the WP:LGBT talk page.


Rest in peace, Flyer. ''']]]''' 04:29, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
:I'll leave reviewing that article up to others. ] (]) 23:45, 30 October 2020 (UTC)


== Heads up: OwlUSA == ==A loss for the project==
I didn't know Flyer at all (just found out about this now) but I certainly noticed the prolific amount of work she put into WP. My condolences to her family. - ] 02:27, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
Since you've interacted with the user {{u|OwlUSA}} before, I thought you might possibly want to be made aware of some of their recent page moves which started popping up on my watchlist, which could be potentially controversial, and seem to be based on original research. ] (]) 21:20, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


== Miss you ==
:The changes I made are all sourced. Just because you you do not like something, does not mean that it is original research. --] (]) 21:32, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
I just do. Rest in peace. ] (]) 11:07, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
::], ]'s latest disruption is all the more reason to keep an eye on that editor. I do not trust any edits they make. Thank you for handling the ] move matter per ]. I only see one page move with that, but it's back and forth. ] (]) 01:15, 7 November 2020 (UTC)


== Source == == Rest In Peace ==
"Id" is commonly used/short way to denote that an assertion is backed up by the immediately preceding works cited. Without that there on the page you reverted it on, the sentence in question lacks a needed citation.
] (]) 03:39, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
:{{tps}} Moved this entry to bottom of page where new entrys go. I've never seen "id" used in this way, but "ibid" is the term ususlly used in academe, but we dont normally do this on Misplaced Pages, in fact I've never seen it here. -] ] 10:18, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
::{{tpw}} "]" isn't used on Misplaced Pages because any edit can insert a new ref that changes the numbering and "breaks" the relationship between two cites. To reuse a citation, name the reference. ]&nbsp;] 15:54, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
:::Thanks, you two. And, yes, OgamD218, I know that "]" and "Ibid." are used (elsewhere off Misplaced Pages). Source is still needed. ] (]) 02:23, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
::::One of the best things about wikipedia is that it ''constantly'' reminds me that I don't know everything. -] ] 10:09, 15 November 2020 (UTC)


I’ve only just seen the awful news of your passing. This makes me regretful that our interactions were made antagonistic from my end. I feel I robbed myself of a better camaraderie with a dedicated and earnest editor such as yourself. Wherever you may be now, I wish you peace. ] 16:55, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
== Clarifying an edit ==


== Deep and dreamless slumber ==
Hello, I saw that you reverted an edit that I did . I think you're absolutely correct, I just think having the word "not" twice might be confusing to some people, especially those that aren't familiar to English. I was trying to find a different way to phrase it, maybe you could suggest a word that the addition or removal of would constitute not a minor edit? Best, ] (]) 21:45, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
:I haven't yet thought deeply about it. ] (]) 02:23, 15 November 2020 (UTC)


{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
== Male Gaze - Thesis Question ==
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Legacy Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thank you for your time, energy, and hard work improving Misplaced Pages. Your contributions live on here, in the articles themselves. May you always be remembered. ] (]) 19:48, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
|}


== Damn... ==
Hey thanks for the edits you made on the ] page, you mentioned something in one of your edit descriptions about a thesis that shouldn't be allowed. Could you clarify what you meant by this? --] (]) 23:07, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
:You used a thesis in the article. It is not a proper source to use, which is why there are at ] about using such a source. What some random thesis states is a no-go for our academic articles. Any of our articles. Read ]. Stick to better sources. ] (]) 23:13, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
:: Cool, thank you that makes a lot of sense. I read through the example you shared and that was super helpful --] (]) 17:35, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
Refusing the legitimacy of theses is gatekeeping knowledge and inherently supportive of classist patriarchal structures. Sources that have been peer reviewed have similar likelihood to be illegitimate or incorrect because knowledge supports an accepted norm and refutes any kind of cultural dissidence. Please be nicer. --] (]) 23:24, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
:::], Misplaced Pages has rules. Delaneyjane22 apparently understands that. You on the other hand? If keeping out poor sources is gatekeeping, then it is appropriate gatekeeping. We do not allow any and everything to be published here. That is why our ] policy states what it states.


] (]) 09:54, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
:::And as for your "Please be nicer" quip, I was straight to the point. I care not that I was stern. I was not disrespectful in any way. And the editor thanked me. New editors do not need to be coddled on matters such as the above. If you are not going to listen to Wikipedians who are far more experienced editing Misplaced Pages than you are, and you are instead going to do your own thing, then you should expect to be reverted. And you can tell your fellow student editors to expect to be reverted if they behave the same way. But in this case, I did not revert your fellow editor. I cleaned up after them and pointed them standard Misplaced Pages practice. ] (]) 00:22, 20 November 2020 (UTC)


== Re: Enhanced Fujita scale == == A message for you==
Thank you for all your service. You will be remembered. ] (]) 11:49, 9 September 2021 (UTC)


== Precious and remembered ==
I saw you recently reverted an edit that removed content at ]. I have reverted such edits twice. I wasn't sure if that removal counts as vandalism for the purposes of the ] or if continuing to revert such actions would count as edit warring on my part, since the edits might technically be considered to be in good faith. I posted this to the help desk but I did not get any responses. Any advice is appreciated. ] (]) 03:30, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
{{User QAIbox/auto|years=Seven}} --] (]) 07:38, 24 September 2021 (UTC)


== ArbCom 2020 Elections voter message == == It hurts to know you are gone ==


Flyer, you are missed, remembered, and mourned. Misplaced Pages is a darker place without you. ]<sup><small style="font-size:80%;">(])</small></sup> 09:12, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
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== Douglas Stuart Edit == == So sorry ==


This type of edit is not a case of unconstructive edits but actually VANDALISM. Please watch the user who did this edit and if he does it again, report him to the admins. ] (]) 07:56, 24 November 2020 (UTC) I only just now heard this sad news. Flyer22 was one of the good ones - I'm very sorry to hear of her illness and death. <strong>]</strong>/<small>]</small> 01:58, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
:], while not all unconstructive edits are vandalism, all vandalism on Misplaced Pages is unconstructive. The "unconstructive" warning is the warning option for IPs provided by ], which I use. ] (]) 08:18, 24 November 2020 (UTC)


== Sorry to hear ==
== You don't seem very thankful today either, do you? ==


I have been away from Misplaced Pages and I return to see the sad passing of not only Flyer22 but SarahSV who commented on the discussion about Flyer's obituary just months before her own death. I am generally a skeptic but I always hold out hope for some form of an afterlife, in some dimension, some universe, some time, somewhere. Best wishes. ] (]) 04:00, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
Well that's perfectly understandable since it's 2020. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 20:34, 26 November 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:I said pretty much the same thing to someone (offline) on Thursday. Heh. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — ] ] ] 😼 </span> 06:21, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
::I did think to revert that post. But it has a certain charm. ] (]) 17:38, 5 December 2020 (UTC)


== Always precious ==
== Kolya Butternut and hounding ==
]
Eight years ago, ] were found precious. You will be remembered! --] (]) 21:09, 24 September 2022 (UTC)


==Your absence is still felt==
And I couldn't care less if the editors Kolya Butternut pinged show up to defend that dishonesty. And that especially goes for Markworthen after ] case. And the same goes for other disgruntled editors I've interacted with, including the group of them who watch my talk page. If Kolya Butternut follows me again, Kolya Butternut will be blocked for it. And their few defenders will not be able to stop or overturn that block.
]


I've been thinking about you the last little while, Flye. A new friend here has a memoriam page for lost community members and it got me thinking of you and others I will always miss here in my own time remaining. Actually, she reminds me of you in the more general sense as well, now that I think about it; I think you would really liked her. I don't believe in an immaterial soul, other than in a metaphorical sense, so I'm not sure who I'm talking to. Myself, I guess. I just felt the need to say I miss you, and still can't help but think of you when working on certain things. I'll check in on some of your articles for you. '']]'' 20:49, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
If you read this, Markworthen, do not post here. You were pinged at Kolya Butternut's talk page; so post there if you must comment on this at all. I also do not want to hear from you, WhatamIdoing, on this. You have Kolya Butternut's talk page as your floor. ] (]) 02:26, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

== Rev ==

What's about? A shortcut here and some increased clarity were requested at ]. Is there something in particular that you're objecting to? That was rather a blanket revert, of anchors, shortcuts, clarification, compression, cross-referencing, etc. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — ] ] ] 😼 </span> 06:20, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
:I take it that you missed when I reverted myself and stated that the revert was by accident. ] (]) 06:21, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
::Ah yes! I seem to be suffering a coffee deficiency again. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — ] ] ] 😼 </span> 06:23, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

== Apologies ==

Just wanted to apologize directly. I think I spent too much time reading through that thread today and confused what I was responding to. Clearly time for me to take a break. Take care. – ] (]) 05:45, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
:Thank you, ]. I appreciate and accept your apology. I apologize if I offended you. I know that transgender topics are often heated. And some of the comments in the ] discussion aren't helping. ] (]) 05:48, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
::No apologies necessary, you did nothing wrong. I was confused by what I was reading, but that was just because I wasn't reading any of it correctly and had confused a few comments. It was entirely my fault. Thank you for your comments and insight in the discussion there. – ] (]) 05:52, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
:::No problem. ] (]) 17:37, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

== Barnstar ==

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|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | ]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''Scholarly Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | yes —] (] ~ ]) 05:20, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
|}


== Devastated ==


I took a break from editing in 2019 and I came back today. While I was gone, I thought many times about what a brave and strong editor you are, how Misplaced Pages is in safe hands as long as you keep watch, how you manage to dedicate so much of your time to ensuring Misplaced Pages stayed good, and how I would message you as soon as I come back. Now that I'm back 5 years later, I learn that not only are you retired, but that you passed away in 2021...
== Rape statistics ==


I cannot describe my shock and pain. I wish you are not actually gone but just taking a break from Misplaced Pages. I wish you are still here through some other account. Anything but the news of your passing. We had a somewhat antagonistic start but I soon came to realize that you were actually trying to help. You were so smart, so caring, so helpful, so dedicated, so courageous, full of integrity. You were my go-to person if I ever needed help regarding Misplaced Pages policies or anything really. You were my mentor. I will miss you so much Flyer. I am still shocked. I wish I had known you more, though that would have made news of your passing even more painful. I feel like I've lost a friend and want to mourn.
I'm writing in relation to (mostly) deleting my edit on "Rape Statistics" page. My number from the US Bureau of Justice was in replacement for some other number from the Italian National Institute of Statitics. My provided stat is from 2019, whereas the old one was from 2006. Furthermore, I think the United States as per its unique place in the world today and it being a cultural leader and influencer is more relevant to the world as a whole.


Thank you for your matchless contributions to Misplaced Pages, your guidance, your help and the kindness you showed to me. I will always remember you. My heartfelt condolences to your family. - ] (]) 14:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
I think It's unreasonable to keep an outdated stat up for so long then when a recent more relevant one is provided is gets deleted. Also it's very important to put a rough figure in the intro of a page which talks about precisely that figure, with the phrase "with surverys showing" clearly stating that this is not an all-encompassing figure but a figure of a specific statistic.
Please feedback. ] (]) 18:35, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
:], shows that I did not remove your content. I moved it. The US material shouldn't be presented as though it's speaking for all the world. If you want to address this further, please take it to ]. Please do not start a new section here on my talk page about it. ] (]) 14:08, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 14:28, 17 October 2024

Respectful comments of remembrance may be left below.



Retired This user is no longer active on Misplaced Pages.

Regarding this? Looking at all of Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Evidence and knowing I'd be subjected to similar, and how certain editors go all out to prove false narratives, I cannot deal with that. Like some editors (including Girth Summit) know, I am dealing with COVID issues in the family. That is not something I just made up to get out of going through this "must take down Flyer" thing. It was happening before that, and it's gotten worse. I have a brother (not the one who edits here) in intensive care and a sister who was just put on a ventilator. I already lost an uncle to the virus. And editing here is supposed to help me take my mind off of stuff like that, not be subjected to as much stress and time-wasting that an ArbCom case entails.

I have said goodbye to editors here already. And I will say this before I leave: The argument from a few at the request page that ANI failed an editor because the admins are biased in my favor? Are we to honestly believe that I control all of these well-respected admins? They have their own minds and have disagreed with me before. They saw what they saw. So for this case to be accepted? It feels like this case would have been accepted regardless of the many requests to decline it. This case isn't about the private evidence -- material that I didn't write but am accused of writing. Material that was not passed on to me for scrutiny. None of the Arbs accepted the case on the basis of that "evidence", which speaks to just how immaterial it is. I acknowledge that I haven't always been the most civil. Editors on the case page noted that I work in areas where tempers flare. That's true. Editors accusing me of having been uncivil to them have also been uncivil to me at one point or another, often in the very discussions they've linked to. Beeblebrox stated, "Arbcom is not a court, it's purpose is to stop current and sustained disruption of the project, not to punish users for things they may have done in the past." But that is exactly what the request points to -- a free-for-all for anyone who has ever been in a heated dispute with me, with the added bonus of portraying my behavior as bullying, transphobic, or something else that it isn't. Consensus did not conclude that I was hounding or bullying anyone. Adhering to our policies and guidelines and expecting others to do the same is not bullying or being discriminatory. Criticisms are not automatically personal attacks. And commentary about what took place here at my own talk page can be seen here with my "18:00, 9 October 2020 (UTC)" post (scroll on down).

The claim that I went after anyone at WP:Med and made participation at WT:Med talk pages unbearable is false. For example, Sandy and I got along just fine for years until the Medicine ArbCom case and I continued to support Doc James -- our most influential and respected medical editor, who has been the face of WP:Med for years. These "just fine" interactions include stuff like this, this, this, this, this, this, and the view that I am a fine editor for new medical editors to work with. I was never a problem at WP:Med. I have a long history there. And the only supposed instance of me being problematic there is the claim that I was driving away a newcomer. As documented there with evidence, I criticized a newcomer for the same exact thing another editor criticized others for when it comes to adding quality sources. Like me, Girth saw no merit to the incivility claims leveled against me in that discussion. At the moment, I can only recall one other heated discussion I was involved in at WP:Med. And that is this one about the Battered woman syndrome article. But it was just that -- a heated discussion. It was not me being a problem. And, indeed, because of my arguments there and at the article's talk page, the article was moved to its proper name and appropriately expanded. Disagreements over MOS:MED, such as this one in a collapsed box which started off by me suggesting that we discuss significant changes before we make them (and then getting the reply I did), this one where I questioned removing guidance and pinged previously involved editors who helped craft the current MOS:MED guideline (which is perfectly fine per WP:APPNOTE), and challenging what were the "golden years" of WP:Med, does not equate to me being disruptive.

That's all I have say. This is not how I wanted to leave Misplaced Pages. But with my own declining health, it was only a matter of time anyway. Take care.

Flowers for Flyer

“

Nor shall death brag thou wander'st in his shade,
When in eternal lines to time thou grow'st:
So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.

”
— William Shakespeare, Sonnet 18

Goodbye

  • Not what I wanted to wake up to. You take care of yourself; you and your families health is much more important than any drama that happens here. It has been a pleasure working with you and watching you work. Misplaced Pages has just lost one of their best editors. Thank you for all the hard work you have put into the project over the years. You will be missed. AIRcorn (talk) 16:34, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Yes, this truly sucks. Maybe after your health issues are resolved, and the drama dies down, you can come back. That will always be my hope. Take care, happy holidays, and best to you. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:13, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • I am very sad to see you go. After losing editors like Doc James, and now you, how many highly valuable users must this ArbCom chase off the site? I think the essay about the problem of WP:SEALIONs aptly describes the situation: As a result of the arbitration committee's failure to deal with these issues, the committee has effectively abdicated the responsibility for ensuring neutrality, verifiability, and other content standards to a few users...who patrol these articles and attempt to keep them free of disruption. These users are generally very knowledgeable about the subject and committed to Misplaced Pages's policies on proper sourcing and appropriate weight. Unfortunately, they tend to burn out....The patient ones tend to go more quietly. They become disillusioned by the never-ending problems and the lack of support from the Misplaced Pages community, and stop editing on these topics or quit the site entirely. That is what happened today - even though many more in the community do support you, as you saw. I also would have had plenty of diffs presented about how those few disgruntled users ganging up on you and pinging each other are in fact the problem. And as for how you are with newbies, the only reason I became a regular editor is because you were kind to me and I saw from your example that improving Misplaced Pages really was possible. Thank you for your many years of service and hundreds of thousands of edits. The topic of human sexuality, among many others, have benefited greatly. You should take great pride in all you've accomplished over the years. I hope you enjoy your retirement to the fullest degree possible. I also wish the best for you and your family regarding health and the other issues of life. The rest of us will undoubtedly step up our work to ensure continued quality in these areas. I hold out hope that one day you will choose to come back. If so, you will be warmly welcomed. Kind regards, Crossroads 18:00, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict) I echo the comments made by Aircorn and Crossroads. I have worked with you on a few different articles and you have been extremely helpful and pleasant to contribute with. I wish you all of the best with your off-wiki situation and hope to see you back in the future. -- LuK3 (Talk) 18:06, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • I likewise echo the above sentiments. Thanks to you, I have learned so much about what it takes to improve as an editor and make productive contributions. I think your absence from Misplaced Pages will be a huge loss as I find your work on articles and your dedication to this site invaluable. This situation really sucks. You've been a guide for me on what a good, even-minded, well-sourced, and thoughtful contributions to a wiki looks like and I so appreciate all of the advice and guidance you have given me. I really hope you decide to come back one day. I am so sorry to hear about the health issues occurring with you and in your family. I will keep thinking of you and I wish only good things for you, Flyer. Anatashala (talk) 20:40, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Desiderata--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 21:59, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • If this retirment is permanent, then I'll deeply miss you. Best wishes to you and your family either way. The sooner your health improves, the better. I know from experience how it can be very frustrating when things go badly on Misplaced Pages. Sometimes we just need to temporarily step away from it all before spending time on the site is enjoyable again. Hopefully you return at some point. No matter what follows in your future, know that you won't be forgotten. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 00:33, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • I'm very sorry to hear about your retirement and your health issues, Flyer. The door is always open to you should you choose to return to Misplaced Pages in the future. Best wishes, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:02, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • I miss you already. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 05:12, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • At least the legacy of your 14 years of labour here will be improving the world's understanding for many decades to come. I'll say prayers for the health of yourself and your family. FeydHuxtable (talk) 07:38, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Very sorry to hear the terrible health news. Please take care, best wishes, and thanks for all your great work. Johnuniq (talk) 09:08, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • This news is just absolutely devastating. I have many women's articles on my radar but through the years as I've seen controversies come and go I've always known that we had the capable hands of Flyer to keep and restore our women-related articles to reflect a modern-day acceptance of the rights, the accomplishments, the history, etc. of women. Flyer easily falls into the top three leading editors when it comes to women. I pray that once Flyer's health problems are resolved she will return. Flyer is our very own Gloria, Florence, Rosie, Sojourner, Malala, and so many others who have had the persistence and the courage to speak out for women. Gandydancer (talk) 17:04, 11 December 2020 (UTC) (PS, just so it's understood, like the rest of us Flyer does not walk on water! Re the MED sourcing disagreement, IMO Colin and Waid were right.) Gandydancer (talk) 16:10, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • You were one of the first editors I remember encountering on here when I first started editing many moons ago, and I've always been blown away by the heart and dedication you've poured into your contributions. If there's one thing I've always known about you, it's that your motives were always clear and never hidden. Though we may have disagreed at times, I never doubted that you always had WP's best interests at heart. No single editor can fill the gaping hole left behind in the wake of your departure. You will be sorely missed. May God bless you and your family during these difficult times. --GoneIn60 (talk) 17:21, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • This makes me so sad. You are one of our finest and our best. I can't bring myself to write that in the past tense. Take good care of yourself, Flyer, and come back to us whenever you're ready. As the Quakers say, I will hold you and your family in the Light. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 01:36, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Very sad to see WP lose a fine editor who contributed with a lot of heart and soul. I read enough of the discussion to come to the conclusion that you were railroaded. Best wishes and hope you return. Carlstak (talk) 02:40, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • I feel terrible reading about your experiences with the virus, it's nightmarish that this is happening to anyone, let alone someone so recognizable to many people. We did not interact a lot but I've seen you tons of times and I'm well aware that you've done great work for Misplaced Pages. I'm also saddened to learn that you have had to deal with ANI issues and conflicts here on the site. Misplaced Pages will be worse off with you gone, but the most important thing is for you to make sure to do what's best for you and those close to you.★Trekker (talk) 05:57, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • I am very disappointed to see you leave, Flyer. As more editors like you leave the project Wikpedia will slide further into advocacy. Unfortunately ArbCom doesn't seem to appreciate that by accepting the case they would be perpetuating the harassment you are experiencing. Being put on trial and having to defend yourself is a stressful experience, and nobody should be put through that unless there is clearly a problem. I think they have been too quick in accepting the case. ArbCom should review the three ANI cases first and only take on the case if they feel that those cases arrived at the incorrect conclusions. I hope your family's fortunes pick up over Christmas. Betty Logan (talk) 15:46, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • We were never buddies, Flyer, but I greatly admire and respect the enormous responsibility you took over having our most contested and vandalized gender & sexuality articles on your Watchlist. An ArbCom case doesn't inevitably lead to sanctions but being a participant in a case proceeding can be taxing. Having lost my last aunt & uncle to COVID-19 this spring, my thoughts are with your family. Take a break from Misplaced Pages if this is stressful and tend to more important matters. But come back when this plague has lifted because the project needs you. Liz 03:29, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Flyer, it definitely sounds like you need and deserve a break from the grind here. I hope you are able to put the Arbcom nastiness and drama from your mind and focus on the real life things that really matter. I hope your family members get better and that you stay safe. Hang in there. ~Awilley (talk) 07:32, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Best wishes for your family's COVID troubles, I'm so sorry to hear it. I hope taking a break will help with the stress. —valereee (talk) 15:34, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Best wishes for you and your family. You have been failed by two communities now, and that sucks, but I hope that both improve and we'll see you around again. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:42, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • So very sad to see you go. I hope you and your family are well. This website has treated you terribly and over the years I've been witness to the number of times, by virtue of the areas you edit in, you have been harrassed or wikistalked, and it's very sad to see this final straw. I don't think we deserve you back; what you do deserve is a wonderful time in the real world :). Yours --Tom (LT) (talk) 22:59, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • I have not interacted with you, but I have seen your name here and there, and I am extremely disappointed to see another valued and principled editor leave the project, especially in this nasty/drama way. I admire greatly editors who roll their sleeves up and do the difficult work for the good of the encyclopedia. I hope that you are able to take a break, look after your family and come back to us when all is well again. Family comes first. RandomGnome (talk) 07:17, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
  • I'm sure I don't have to tell how personally grieved I would be if you left and didn't return. And also what a blow it would be the Misplaced Pages, and by extension the world. I'm sorry all this happened. I hope you change your mind. Herostratus (talk) 12:01, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
  • Hi Flyer. We interacted a few times over the years. I have not been very active on Misplaced Pages during the past couple of years due to multiple issues, but I have always admired your work and dedication to improve Misplaced Pages. Best wishes to you and your family. Mistercontributer (talk) 03:48, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
  • I only just noticed your retirement now. Thank you for all that you've done for Misplaced Pages and although this is a well deserved break I hope that you eventually consider editing again in better circumstances. Farewell, —PaleoNeonate – 17:17, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
  • Too young to go. I don't know you personally, but I saw you many times at the Anatomy project talk page. You always tried to brush-up difficult pages (e.g. sex organs). I respect your efforts. Thank you and rest in peace. (or edit more at WikiHeaven!) --Was a bee (talk) 13:08, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
  • I can't believe this happened. I know we didn't interact much, but thank you for being with us on Misplaced Pages all these years. Goodbye friend. My condolences to the friends and family of Flyer22 Frozen. Jerm (talk) 20:03, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Barnstar of Diligence
In recognition of all you have done. Crossroads 18:02, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Farewell barnstar

The Working Woman's Barnstar
For all of your dedication to helping improve this site for over a decade, I feel you deserve some props. I feel very grateful for how we crossed paths and know I'm far from the only one who values your contributions. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 00:30, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Comment

Wiki MUST change the arbitration system. Maybe do it in private in the beginning and then open it up for comment before decision making. Sorry for my outburst on your talk page. I am just a simple editor. Eschoryii (talk) 04:57, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Best wishes

Flyer22, I'm not at all caught up (like maybe 1 percent), but I still wanted to first and foremost extend my best wishes to you and your family and to your collective health.

A candle among roses
In the evening garden
A shooting star
A flash of the moon's gown
A spark of the sun's hem
In syncopated eclipse
Emissary of day
In night's dark kingdom
Unseen at home
Lucid in exile
Opposite of the moth
The firefly is light
--Muhammad Iqbal

All the best, El_C 08:20, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

I think the light is gone out. Doug Weller talk 11:15, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
That's what I understand as well, and unfortunately while she was under the burden of an arbitration case. Beyond My Ken (talk) 14:28, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
Sad news indeed. She did so much amazing work here. Created high quality and needed content in a very difficult topic area. She will be impossible to replace and will be much missed by many. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 14:39, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
In recognition of all the years you spent making Misplaced Pages better than you found it. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 14:47, 21 January 2021 (UTC)


child protection

Thank you , user with significant knowledge in the social/scientific/psychological/sexual fields, for quality unbiased articles on these topics, such as Clitoris and Todd Manning, for explaining edit summaries, for your firm stance on child protection, for your collection of vandalism moments, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

You are recipient no. 982 of Precious, a prize of QAI. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:41, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Nothing to add but that you were unique - dealing bravely with topics others would not dare to touch - and you will be missed and remembered. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:57, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Rest in Peace

Reading of your passing is sad news. You did so much to improve and protect the project. You will be sadly missed here and, I feel sure, in real life. My deepest condolences to your family and friends. MarnetteD|Talk 15:58, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

I am truly sadden by this news. Fly was my friend! I first met her back in 2014, while working on Todd Manning, a soap opera article we brought to FA--at the time, the sixth FA-Class soap opera article and the third FA about a soap character. Fly was a polarizing figure here on WP (you either loved her or well, didn't love her), but she always treated me with respect and kindness. We supported each other and were always there for each other. I was always appalled about how factions of WP treated her. She was a dedicated and passionate editor. I loved her and will miss her, and WP (and the world) will be a much, much sadder place without her. My condolences to her family. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:25, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Sad cat

framless
framless

—PaleoNeonate – 16:38, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Rest in peace

Goodbye Flyer22. You will be missed. :( Steve M (talk) 16:44, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

I miss you, Flyer. My deepest condolences to your family for the loss of someone who was clearly a very special and caring person. I made a donation today to Oxfam Canada to honour you and to give myself hope that the work you have done for women and children will somehow continue. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 17:17, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

  • I don't recall working on any specific article with Flyer (I'm more a friend of a friend) - but I always respected what they had to say, and I CERTAINLY appreciate all the hard work they put in here at Misplaced Pages. I'm sorry to see this, and I offer my condolences to friends and family of someone who I viewed as a very good person. Rest well Flyer. — Ched (talk) 17:28, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
Ave Maria

Ave Maria, gratia plena,

Maria, gratia plena,

Maria, gratia plena,

Ave, Ave, Dominus,

Dominus tecum.

Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus,

Et benedictus fructus ventris (tui),

Ventris tui, Jesus.

Ave Maria!


Sancta Maria, Mater Dei,

Ora pro nobis peccatoribus,

Ora, ora pro nobis;

Ora, ora pro nobis peccatoribus,

Nunc et in hora mortis,

In hora mortis nostrae.

In hora, hora mortis nostrae,

In hora mortis nostrae.

Ave Maria!

Thank-you, Flyer

The Special Barnstar
Flyer, so much of it is thanks to you that I was able to develop and improve as an editor over the years -- not simply on Misplaced Pages but on other wikis as well, in addition to many collaborative efforts building shared documents. When I returned to Misplaced Pages and asked you a question on your talk page, you were so kind, welcoming, and helpful, and I felt 100% better about my return. I can't tell you how much I appreciated your guidance on Misplaced Pages matters. Over the years, whenever I saw you were involved with an article on Misplaced Pages, I felt that much more secure with the veracity and quality of that article. Your passing represents an immeasurable loss for Misplaced Pages as well as all the editors you've guided and helped in their development. Anatashala (talk) 17:22, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm stunned by this news. Flyer was a boon to Misplaced Pages. Though I'm a seasonal editor at best, I am a frequent lurker -- referencing Misplaced Pages daily, using it as a place to begin my research using its sources. Many of those sources were vetted by Flyer as the articles I'd often reference were ones Flyer was involved with. Over the past seven years, I saw the dedication, effort, and devotion she put into improving and maintaining the qualities of these articles. It's nearly impossible for me to imagine a Misplaced Pages without her and I can only imagine the loss felt by her family and friends. It's even a struggle for myself to come to terms with and I didn't even know her name. I am so sorry for the devastating loss of Flyer experienced by her family and friends, beyond deeply saddened that Flyer passed, and I feel this is a major loss for Misplaced Pages.

Thank-you, Flyer, for your guidance and your part in helping me develop as an editor and collaborator. I miss you so much on this site, you were a gift. Anatashala (talk) 17:22, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

We will miss you, Flyer22

Flyer22 Frozen, a vandal fighting, policy enforcing superstar

This is indeed a very sad day. I first crossed paths with Flyer22 nearly 10 years ago. My first thought was, "this guy must be an F-22 pilot". We've never had much interaction, because when she crossed my watchlist it was usually because of her relentless work in patrolling new edits. But I have had a chance to observe over the years, and see first hand some of what she doesdid through my activities at BLPN.

At Misplaced Pages, we're all supposed to be equal ... in theory. But, as Yogi Berra said, "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is."

I've always been proud to be a part of Misplaced Pages. It's always been gratifying, if not somewhat humbling, to be able to work among so many people who are so incredibly intelligent and have such high integrity. But, like all society, there are always certain individuals who stand out among the crowd. People who you can look up to. Polyamorph. Materialscientist. SlimVirgin. Doc James up there. Seeing what Flyer22 has done for Misplaced Pages over the years, I have always held her in the highest esteem. She too has stood out among the crowd, and her loss is a devastating blow, not just to Misplaced Pages, but to her family and to the world. We will miss you Flyer22, and may whatever god, chi, or spirit you believe in take you and carry you. There are many here who will mourn this day for some time.

The force will be with you. Always. Zaereth (talk) 18:31, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Devastated

I cannot believe you're gone, Flyer22 Frozen. When I glanced at your talk page a few minutes ago, I thought you'd retired and I was going to leave a goodbye and thank you note to you, with a wish that you'd return to us one day.

But then I read further, and I'm devastated. :'( I remember our interactions from years ago, keeping BLPs free from bad content and being kind to one another. I am utterly saddened that those days are gone for good.

Thank you so much for everything you did. Best wishes to your family. Acalamari 19:16, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Very sad

I've very sorry to have you leave us Springee (talk) 19:57, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Sad

So sorry to hear the news, greatest sympathies to Flyer22's family and friends. Although I had my disagreement's with Flyer22, I recognised she did important work especially in the area of WP:BLP which greatly improved and protected Misplaced Pages. Nil Einne (talk) 20:05, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

In memory

  • Thanks for many contributions. Rest in peace and condolences to family and friends. Alanscottwalker (talk) 21:02, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
  • I'm shocked and saddened to hear this news. Flyer22 is an editor I've been familiar with for as long as I can remember in my Misplaced Pages experience, and literally the first editor I remember thinking about as a highly respectable and valuable contributor with a lot to teach others. Our interactions probably do not number that many, but I've seen a great number of their edits and talk page messages. Whether I agreed with her or not, I always saw Flyer22 as an intelligent and good faith contributor whose opinion I gave significant weight. There's no denying that she had a great many Misplaced Pages-specific skills, whether an eye for socks or an eye for finding good sources. She will be sorely missed; her edits have made a great impact on this encyclopedia both to us as editors and to our worldwide audience, whether they know it or not. — Bilorv (talk) 22:08, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
  • This is devastating news. Flyer's work was first class and of immense benefit to Misplaced Pages. She will be greatly missed. Johnuniq (talk) 00:40, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
  • So very sad to hear. You are irreplaceable, Flyer22 Frozen. We will always love you. Carlstak (talk) 01:04, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
  • RIP ... I'll always remember your diligence, tenacity, and passion for the project. Misplaced Pages is certainly a better place thanks to the contributions you made to the site. Graham87 08:10, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
  • I'd like to add my condolences to Flyer22's family. I've spent a lot of time reviewing Flyer's contributions recently and would like to take this moment to say how much of an asset she was to the community. She will be missed. Worm(talk) 08:57, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
  • I am very sad to learn of Flyer's passing. I did not know Flyer personally but we had some interactions on Misplaced Pages. Flyer dedicated so much of her time and energy researching and improving Misplaced Pages. We should all follow her example. Her contributions will last a very long time. This will be her legacy. Sincere condolences to her family and friends and loved ones. Mistercontributer (talk) 03:00, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
  • Just now learning of this. Rest in peace, Flyer. Your work here is exceptional. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 14:32, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
  • Shocked and saddened. She was one of the editors I looked up to. My condolences to her family and friends. Usedtobecool ☎️ 16:32, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Very sad

My condolences to your family and friends. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:24, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Same, please take care, family and friends. starship.paint (exalt) 04:59, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Awful.

This is awful, just awful. I don't ever recall feeling this shocked, upset, and sad about the notice of someone passing that I never met in real life. I'm really very, very upset. She leaves a hole that can never be filled. My condolences to Halo Jerk1; please pass on my thoughts to other members of your family, and let them know there are people who really cared and felt her presence, though in my case, never knew her personally. She will be deeply missed. If there is one Misplaced Pages editor I would have liked to meet in real life, and get to know, it was she; now I never shall. I am so sad. Mathglot (talk) 21:44, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Mathglot, I feel this. I cried when I saw this. For about a hour. It hits you hard because many of us are faceless, pseudonymous comrades who carry the torch of the wiki. May you be granted peace in your grief. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 02:14, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
I cried when I saw the news this morning, and I've been processing it all day. The loss is just immense. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 05:51, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Not over this loss. I think about this void, my loss, Misplaced Pages's loss, every time I'm at an article which Flyer would have improved, or commented on. Trying to channel her, to figure out what she might have said or done; but I'm not up to that task, she was unique. Not over this. Mathglot (talk) 18:50, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
This sucks. I'm p.o.'d. Mathglot (talk) 01:01, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
Still upset. Mathglot (talk) 09:36, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

For those interested

User:Flyer22 Frozen/Editing manual left after death, written in 2013... I've protected Flyer's subpages, which included some drafts; if you want them unportected so you can work on them just ask. Moneytrees🏝️ 21:50, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

My Benediction For You

Peace to you and to your family. May your memory and contributions forever bless our project. You were are loved. I know I'll miss you. May we meet again on some wiki project in the next life. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 21:50, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

May you rest peacefully in eternity

  • I was concerned to see that you had retired, and shocked to learn that you had passed. We never had the opportunity to interact, but I feel the loss of a good editor, nonetheless. My condolences to your survivors, all those you loved and befriended. Rest in peace, Flyer22. Atsme 💬 📧 22:39, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
We will miss you; rest in peace, and my deepest sympathy to your family. Miniapolis 00:22, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Sad news. Your work in Misplaced Pages will be appreciate for the eternity. Rest in peace Flyer. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 00:37, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm so sad to learn of this

I've crossed paths with Flyer so many times over the years, and I'm absolutely shocked and devastated to learn of her death. She made so many outstanding contributions to the project, and she will be much missed, as an editor and as a person. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:19, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Very upset to hear of this ...

I've been thinking on this all day, and really can't put it well into words. I'm one of the few folks who knows Flyer22's name, and have spoken with her and her brother more than once. Behind the scenes, she did immense work on identifying banned editors - many pro-pedo ones - and this annoyed some of those folks, to the point that she was getting credible death threats and rape threats. I remember all that. Yet, she put her head down and kept working on the project, and did so for many years. I have a huge amount of respect for her and what she achieved, though we didn't always agree either. I am shocked and saddened that she is gone - I really don't know what to say - Alison 01:25, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Wow. I never knew that part of the story, although it was apparent something had happened back then, I just never knew the details. That's pretty scary, but it explains a lot. I've had the privilege of talking with her on occasion, and offered her advice she didn't always agree with. I don't know her real name and never really gave it a thought. She'll always be Flyer22 to me.
I'm like Mathglot. I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes, over someone I've never really met. She was a shining star, and I'm just thinking ... hoping, that maybe she's up there somewhere, and maybe the sky won't be a little less bright tonight. Zaereth (talk) 02:01, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
A great loss to Misplaced Pages. Condolences to her family and many friends, on and off wiki. For many years, she watched over important articles in sexuality and gender topics and that made her a target for some of the worst harassment on ENWP. Yet, she kept showing up in the true spirit of Wikipedians who believe in our mission. She will be greatly missed. Sydney Poore/FloNightUser talk:FloNight 16:21, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Dreadful shock

Woke up today and saw this fell news. Daresay I'm at a loss for words, had difficulty believing my eyes at first. I've crossed paths with Flyer22 in countervandalism and counter-LTA activities often, and it to me seems a disastrous loss to the community as a whole. Flyer22 (as Alison mentioned above) did valuable work for the encyclopedia. Now we have only a hollow that can never be filled. Rest in peace, Flyer22. We'll never forget your contributions. My most heartfelt sympathy goes out to Flyer's family. JavaHurricane 02:13, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

The North remembers

Just going over our old GoT debates, good times. If you happen to somehow read this, thanks for that. Sorry and good luck to friends and family reading this; from what she taught me at Talk:The Bells (Game of Thrones)/Archive 1#"Mixed" Reviews? (twelve walls of text down), she seemed proud to be part of her pack. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:08, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Seven years on, I still think "however" is too often thoughtlessly misused, however. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:42, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Rest in peace... this is devastating.

I never crossed paths with Flyer22 (only seen her in early January when I found them reverting some vandalism on articles under WPTC banner back in December), but seeing this news pretty much devastated me. Flyer22's death is devastating, devastating loss for Misplaced Pages. I don't have more words about this, but I am hoping that there is some editor that can rise up to fill the void. MarioJump83! 06:31, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Miss you

I am devastated. You did so much good for me, for other editors, for Misplaced Pages, and yes, for the whole world. This site is the most used reference work there is, and you put so much work into making sure that so many topics, including especially important topics relating to women and children, were well covered. And you gave of yourself and persevered for so long in ensuring they continued to be of increasing quality. Your work has a ripple effect reaching ever outward, educating countless readers and from there, others. Your legacy lives forever.

Rest in peace, Flyer.

Crossroads 06:45, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Vale

I'm really saddened to hear of this loss; for Flyer22's family, friends and for our community. Flyer22 was always an impassioned Wikipedian and I have worked with her for the better part of a decade now. She was, I believe, a fundamentally decent person and I hope her real life was less troubled than her Misplaced Pages existance where, like a bright warm light at night, she continually attracted editors with an unhealthy attention towards her. I'm so sad to here she has passed away of health issues and wish I could have got to meet her in real life to say hello and share a cup of tea. You'll be greatly missed, Flyer22. May you rest in peace. Vale. --Tom (LT) (talk) 08:06, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

A sadness and a hope

I am deeply saddened at the loss of Flyer. I feel that the work she did on Clitoris and Vagina is the among the very best on Misplaced Pages. Thousands of people every day are coming to Misplaced Pages to find out more about these two deeply significant parts to the human body, and Flyer produced two well researched and well written, balanced, neutral, and informative articles that allow them to discover more. They are two shining examples of what Misplaced Pages is really good at, and they are Flyer's legacy. I had always hoped to work again with Flyer on another article or two of their quality. Sadly this will now not happen.

However, I am encouraged by her brother's comments in his email that Flyer's younger sister will probably be opening a Misplaced Pages account in the near future. I do hope that the sister will be welcomed, and will be encouraged to stay and pick up on Flyer's work. If she does open an account I pledge myself to offering her as much support, encouragement, protection, and advice as she needs to get settled. As part of that commitment, my first piece of advice is that the sister does not pick over the bones of any current or past disputes. Halo suggests she may do that, but that would not be a good idea. If the sister has any of the research skills, intelligence, determination, and courage of her sister, she will be a great asset to Misplaced Pages and may come close to equalling (or even exceeding) Flyer's achievements.

Goodbye Flyer and welcome (hopefully) to Flyer's sister. SilkTork (talk) 12:15, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

I appreciate your adding kind words. I want to clarify that Halo has since sent another email making clear that the only reason the younger sister would have joined is to confirm what happened and that's it. He said that won't be happening now as it doesn't seem needed. Crossroads 17:55, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Very sad

I've had many positive interactions with Flyer over the past 15 years, and have seen the considerable good work she has done here and have only good memories. I will miss her. Paul August ☎ 13:49, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

  • I am going to miss Flyer. She’s one of the bravest editors I have ever seen. Heart of gold and a spine of steel. A good human being. Montanabw 14:59, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
    • I am terribly sorry to hear this bad news. Flyer was a great editor and I had enormous respect for her work. She will be missed. Cullen Let's discuss it 16:24, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
    • One of the best of the best. I worked with Flyer on several woman-related articles but watched over many more that she watched over. It was so reassuring to know that when she was involved in the editing women would be fairly treated--not by putting men down but by careful research that backed her positions. We were so lucky to have her and she will be sadly missed. Gandydancer (talk) 18:23, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
    • I want to add my voice to all of those who are going to miss Flyer. One of my earliest editing memories was being reverted by Flyer; the civil, well-reasoned and instructive discussion we had afterwards motivated me to read sources, engage on talk pages, and made me more interested in getting involved in the project. she was inspirational, and I will miss her greatly. My deepest condolences to her family. GirthSummit (blether) 18:29, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Flyer's retirement news was already saddening, so to now find out she has died is even worse. May this valued editor rest in peace. Misplaced Pages won't be the same without her! SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 23:47, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

  • Requiescat in pace. Flyer was a mainstay of Misplaced Pages's women-related articles. Her knowledge and care will be tremendously missed. My condolences to her family and loved ones. gnu57 07:31, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Vaya con Dios, Flyer22

I’m so sorry to hear about your passing. Thanks for everything you’ve done as a Misplaced Pages contributor. Rest In Peace. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:47, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Farewell

Extended content

As you set out for Ithaka
hope the voyage is a long one,
full of adventure, full of discovery.
Laistrygonians and Cyclops,
angry Poseidon—don’t be afraid of them:
you’ll never find things like that on your way
as long as you keep your thoughts raised high,
as long as a rare excitement
stirs your spirit and your body.
Laistrygonians and Cyclops,
wild Poseidon—you won’t encounter them
unless you bring them along inside your soul,
unless your soul sets them up in front of you.

Hope the voyage is a long one.
May there be many a summer morning when,
with what pleasure, what joy,
you come into harbors seen for the first time;
may you stop at Phoenician trading stations
to buy fine things,
mother of pearl and coral, amber and ebony,
sensual perfume of every kind—
as many sensual perfumes as you can;
and may you visit many Egyptian cities
to gather stores of knowledge from their scholars.

Keep Ithaka always in your mind.
Arriving there is what you are destined for.
But do not hurry the journey at all.
Better if it lasts for years,
so you are old by the time you reach the island,
wealthy with all you have gained on the way,
not expecting Ithaka to make you rich.

Ithaka gave you the marvelous journey.
Without her you would not have set out.
She has nothing left to give you now.

And if you find her poor, Ithaka won’t have fooled you.
Wise as you will have become, so full of experience,
you will have understood by then what these Ithakas mean.

Ithaka
by C. P. Cavafy


Farewell, Flyer. You made a difference. You did well. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 01:55, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

  • Flyer and I sometimes communicated off Misplaced Pages so I considered her more than a collaborator. I was aware that some of her family members had contracted Covid, which partly contributed to her decision to not engage with Arb Com. I know that the Covid issues occurred before the business with Arb-Com so it was never an excuse, I genuinely believe she didn't feel up to dealing with it. I was already saddened by her decision to leave Misplaced Pages and I am genuinely upset at her passing. RIP Flyer, and I very much hope the rest of her family can come through this. Betty Logan (talk) 21:18, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Respect

I can't remember where or when we crossed paths, but I remember you. RIP. ✨ Ed talk! ✨ 03:46, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

A message

I never interacted with you on Misplaced Pages, but I am firm that you do amazing contributions. I cannot praise you in a way so grandeur, but I can just hope you rest there in peace. This will not be your last contribution. GeraldWL 04:50, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Goodbye

I had contact with Flyer a fairly large number of times over the years. She quite frequently emailed me about various matters. I had a very high regard for her. She was conscientious and determined to do what she believed was best for Misplaced Pages, persisting in doing so even when others made it difficult for her to do so. She was in many ways very perceptive, and could often see through clouds of nonsense to the truth underneath when many others couldn't. Over the course of time I came to think of her as a friend, even though I never met her in the flesh, and knew nothing about her life away from Misplaced Pages. I shall miss her. JBW (talk) 21:24, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the support with LGBT+ and medicine

Thanks for the regular constructive criticism in medicine and LGBT content. I appreciated having you as a colleague in both places as hardly anyone else navigates both of those busy spaces. You pushed for quality in a friendly way and were a model of good collaboration for giving original writing and ideas when asking for improvement. I respect that when you asked for favors, you yourself came proactively presenting a favor yourself.

🌈🌈🌈🩺💊🏥

Blue Rasberry (talk) 22:00, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

RIP

Shocked and saddened to hear this, Flyer was a fantastic editor and they will be missed a lot, Thank you for each and every contribution you've made here Flyer, Rest in Peace. my sincere condolences to friends and family. –Davey2010 00:11, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

A great loss to the community and our mission

I wish that I'd had some knowledge that Flyer was unwell: I don't know whether she made this common knowledge or played the fact close to her vest, but despite her being one of the editors I most frequently ran into incidentally out in the wild of our talk pages (due to our shared interest in human nature as explored by hard science), I had no idea she was ill and apparently had been for some time. I think she and I probably had similar perspectives on matters slightly more often than not, but by the same token, we shared a work space often enough to experience many situations in which we disagreed and it was in these moments that she most impressed me with the qualities of a true Wikipedian--openness and a commitment to respectful discourse in pursuit of understanding. Oh, make no mistake: she was prepared to stick to her guns and hold a line against what she felt was a misrepresentation of the truth of an issue. But she tempered that drive and doggedness with wit, warmth, and perspective. She was truly the type of person who represents the best in this community, and whom we can point to as proof that our great task summons together people of real character and strength. I am not a spiritualist in any sense, so I cannot invoke the words of her name (the one I knew her best by) in a way that might otherwise be a comfort in this moment, to say that she has taken flight and will be reborn in a heavenly sense. But I can say with no less certainty and meaning that her works will indeed take flight, and her spirit will be reborn every day in a world and in the people made noticeably better for her presence.

Flyer, I'm sorry that I did not get to tell you any of this directly--looking back, I'm not sure I ever even seized an opportunity to say to you expressly that you were my friend. I will have to try to learn from that lesson and be more careful to take the time to say such things here. I can only say now that this is merely a part of what I have learned from you and that you have my enduring gratitude. Snow 00:32, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Beautiful words. Carlstak (talk) 01:52, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Condolences

I am greatly saddened by this news and extend my deepest sympathies to all those who cared for Flyer22. Memory eternal! -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:15, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Goodbye.

User_talk:Bob_K31416/Archive_2010#Star_Wars_mention_in_Avatar           Bob K31416 (talk) 11:59, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Sad to hear you're gone

Flyer, you and I had our differences, but I've always admired your devotion to this encyclopedia and your earnest efforts to make it better. You did a lot of good around here. My heart skipped a beat when I saw that you'd passed. No matter how many times we butted heads, this is not news I ever hoped to hear. Been thinking of you. Armadillopteryx 01:43, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Rest in peace

Thank you for working with me for so many years. I'm extremely saddened to learn that you are gone. You will be missed. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 07:21, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Farewell

I am at a loss for what to say as this is honestly the first time I've truly felt a loss from the death on an online acquaintance/colleague. We crossed paths and conversed many times () given our overlapping interests. May the memory of Flyer be a blessing to all who knew her. EvergreenFir (talk) 17:27, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Rest in peace shining star

What sad news to hear that Flyer22 has passed on. Wherever you may be, surrounded by scintillating starlight and mysterious stardust, your contributions to this world were truly stellar. Netherzone (talk) 19:08, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Taken too soon...

You will be missed, Flyer. Thank you for leaving the memory of your legacy with us on Misplaced Pages. Huggums537 (talk) 08:19, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Farewell

I only just noticed this and can't think of what else to say. Flyer22 always had the encyclopedia's best interests at heart and contributed enormously to an area of Misplaced Pages I know very little about and did it fighting off conflicts that I think would have caused many others to retire much sooner instead of sticking it out. Please give my condolences to her family and friends. Ritchie333 16:18, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Rest in peace

I thank Flyer22 for all the work she has done. I send my condolences to her family and friends. Rest in peace. You will be remembered. ~ Destroyeraa🌀🇺🇸 16:34, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

I am very late in noticing this but I am saddened by Flyer's death and wish to add my tribute and condolences. She was an astute and prolific contributor. I had only passing interactions with her but all were positive. She took the time to thank me a number of times for edits and I always appreciated her acknowledgements. That personal touch was a wonderful addition to all her substantive contributions. Donner60 (talk) 08:05, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Frozen

I dedicate this image to your memory. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:20, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

The icicles look like frozen musical notes, an étude in ice—a fitting tribute. Carlstak (talk) 22:20, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Condolences

I know I'm late to the funeral, but I was browsing an IP's TP when I saw a warning of yours. Seeing it, I miss you. Rest in peace. Firestar464 (talk) 03:48, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Condolences

Extending my condolences to Flyer22 and her family (I only just found out about her passing). Sad to hear of the death of another young Wikipedian. SamHolt6 (talk) 18:34, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Have only just found out about this, also. Really sad to hear, I’m at a complete loss for words. Rest in peace, Flyer22. Patient Zero 04:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for everything you did

I haven't been active much and only realised the bad news a few days ago. You were a great contributor to this project and will be sorely missed. My condolences. Rubbish computer (Talk: Contribs) 19:07, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

R.I.P.

I haven't been that active on Misplaced Pages lately, so I was shocked to learn of Flyer22's passing while sorting through my watchlist. As someone who has worked and interacted with Flyer in film-related articles, I can attest that she was a productive and proficient member of this encyclopedia and her contributions have not gone unnoticed or unappreciated. On a more personal note, I only wish her family the best.

Rest in peace, Flyer. Darkknight2149 04:29, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

A loss for the project

I didn't know Flyer at all (just found out about this now) but I certainly noticed the prolific amount of work she put into WP. My condolences to her family. - wolf 02:27, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Miss you

I just do. Rest in peace. Firestar464 (talk) 11:07, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Rest In Peace

I’ve only just seen the awful news of your passing. This makes me regretful that our interactions were made antagonistic from my end. I feel I robbed myself of a better camaraderie with a dedicated and earnest editor such as yourself. Wherever you may be now, I wish you peace. Rusted AutoParts 16:55, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Deep and dreamless slumber

The Legacy Barnstar
Thank you for your time, energy, and hard work improving Misplaced Pages. Your contributions live on here, in the articles themselves. May you always be remembered. Viriditas (talk) 19:48, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Damn...

LessHeard vanU (talk) 09:54, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

A message for you

Thank you for all your service. You will be remembered. Firestar464 (talk) 11:49, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Precious and remembered

Precious
Seven years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:38, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

It hurts to know you are gone

Flyer, you are missed, remembered, and mourned. Misplaced Pages is a darker place without you. AlexEng 09:12, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

A candle for those we lost

Merry Christmas Flyer, gone but never forgotten

Zaereth (talk) 09:24, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

So sorry

I only just now heard this sad news. Flyer22 was one of the good ones - I'm very sorry to hear of her illness and death. Tvoz/talk 01:58, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Sorry to hear

I have been away from Misplaced Pages and I return to see the sad passing of not only Flyer22 but SarahSV who commented on the discussion about Flyer's obituary just months before her own death. I am generally a skeptic but I always hold out hope for some form of an afterlife, in some dimension, some universe, some time, somewhere. Best wishes. —DIYeditor (talk) 04:00, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Always precious

Eight years ago, you were found precious. You will be remembered! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:09, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Your absence is still felt

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I've been thinking about you the last little while, Flye. A new friend here has a memoriam page for lost community members and it got me thinking of you and others I will always miss here in my own time remaining. Actually, she reminds me of you in the more general sense as well, now that I think about it; I think you would really liked her. I don't believe in an immaterial soul, other than in a metaphorical sense, so I'm not sure who I'm talking to. Myself, I guess. I just felt the need to say I miss you, and still can't help but think of you when working on certain things. I'll check in on some of your articles for you. SnowRise 20:49, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Devastated

I took a break from editing in 2019 and I came back today. While I was gone, I thought many times about what a brave and strong editor you are, how Misplaced Pages is in safe hands as long as you keep watch, how you manage to dedicate so much of your time to ensuring Misplaced Pages stayed good, and how I would message you as soon as I come back. Now that I'm back 5 years later, I learn that not only are you retired, but that you passed away in 2021...

I cannot describe my shock and pain. I wish you are not actually gone but just taking a break from Misplaced Pages. I wish you are still here through some other account. Anything but the news of your passing. We had a somewhat antagonistic start but I soon came to realize that you were actually trying to help. You were so smart, so caring, so helpful, so dedicated, so courageous, full of integrity. You were my go-to person if I ever needed help regarding Misplaced Pages policies or anything really. You were my mentor. I will miss you so much Flyer. I am still shocked. I wish I had known you more, though that would have made news of your passing even more painful. I feel like I've lost a friend and want to mourn.

Thank you for your matchless contributions to Misplaced Pages, your guidance, your help and the kindness you showed to me. I will always remember you. My heartfelt condolences to your family. - Human10.0 (talk) 14:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

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