Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 12:11, 16 January 2007

Wizardry Dragon

Voice your opinion (19/12/4); Scheduled to end 2:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Wizardry Dragon (talk · contribs) – I saw this user around AFD and other official channels. I think Peter would be a strong admin. He has a good sense of the rules, an active RC patrollor, and a good mediator. His solutions to common Misplaced Pages problems are very innovative and effective. The most notable example would be the problem with bias and POV in articles - he is the head of Misplaced Pages:Neutrality_Project. Misplaced Pages could definitely benefit from admins like him, and I centanly don't think he is going to abuse the tools - he has good judgment on weather or not any rules have been broken and how severe the violation is. -- Selmo 03:20, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Co-nom - In all my dealings with Wizardry Dragon, he has been nothing but professional responses. He is also a great WP:RFCU clerk. Wizardry Dragon also understands some of the issues that are facing wikipedia, such as spam, vandalism, policy ect. He has made valuable contributions to most every process on Misplaced Pages. I have seen him to put more thought and effort into what he says and does then just !support, !oppose, ect. Some articles that he has worked on include Ultima, BattleTech technology, Exult, and Delta Goodrem. This guy has all the makings of an admin. He seems to be well balanced, has worked in many areas of Misplaced Pages, and seems to have a handle on the job.

Also he is a very avid coder, working on such projects as DragonBot, which is an open source bot framework for .NET C++. The source for this (incomplete) framework can be found at sourceforge. In addition he has his own toolserver account, which can be found here. Wiz has some interesting tools in development. Currently he has one close to a working level, this is a lookup tool for IP's (which can be found here). He has managed to make a nice framework so that it can be used in javascript tools. Right now there is one tool by Georgemoney, it can be found at User:GeorgeMoney/UserScripts/LoadIpInfo. Before you can use the script you must have this pasted before it in your monobook.js. The script allows inline whois checking of an IP.

What I see here is a toolmaker, one who has taken the time to get to know all of Misplaced Pages. I can see Wiz, using the admin tools from everything to blocking spammers, to developing new tools for admins to use. Personally the one question we must all ask, is this user trustworthy? In my view there is 0% chance of admin abuse. —— Eagle 101 07:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Co-nom- I'll start with the most important thing in my view, the matter of trust. I'm confident that Wizardry Dragon would, if promoted, not abuse the tools, and I intend to demonstrate with some diffs, a level of policy knowledge which precludes any misuse of the tools through inexperience. I'll also demonstrate why Misplaced Pages would be a better place in Wizardry Dragon was trusted with the tools and the uses this user would have for the tools. Before I begin, it's worth noticing that Wizardry Dragon is also at present a moderator for the VandalProof software and is a Checkuser clerk, already showing how he can handle responsibility.

Mainspace Misplaced Pages

The diffs are typical of the excellent work Wizardry Dragon is performing across Misplaced Pages, and I know that Misplaced Pages will be that little bit better for everyone if we can give Wizardry Dragon the tools, tools he can go and use to make Misplaced Pages that little bit faster, more pleasent and more encyclopedic for both the contributors and ultimately, for the end user. Adminship is no big deal, but giving the tools wisely to editors can reap big benefits. That's what we've got here, the chance to reap big benefits for Misplaced Pages. --Kind Regards - Heligoland 01:17, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

What's Montague? It is nor hand, nor foot,

Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part

Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!

What's in a name? that which we call a rose

By any other name would smell as sweet

So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,

William Shakespeare Romeo & Juliette Act 2, Scene 2

What is an admin? Wizardry Dragon has been handling "admin" actions as a CU clerk and as part of the WP:WNP. let the admin get +sysop and become an admin as I have asked for his help many times in dispute resolution, and other issues. This user clearly shows that there is zero chance that he will abuse them so I give my full support of him. Betacommand 01:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here: I have always said I would let the community decide if it wants me to be a sysop, and so, with this nomination, I think it's time to let such a decision happen. So the question you should ask yourself is Do I trust Wizardry Dragon with page protects, deletions, and blocks?. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 02:00, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Misplaced Pages in this capacity. Please take the time to answer a few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:

1. What sysop chores do you anticipate helping with? Please check out Category:Misplaced Pages backlog and Category:Administrative backlog, and read the page about administrators and the administrators' reading list.

A: There are several places and capacities in Misplaced Pages where sysops are needed currently, however, there are a few which my experience would already lend itself to. First of all, as a RFCU clerk, I often deal with tagging sockpuppet accounts. Were I a sysop, I could also block these users, which would take some of the load off Luna Santin, who is the only active sysop there. (There are other clerk sysops, such as Thatcher, but they work primarily on the Arbitration Committee pages as ArbCom Clerks). Secondly, there has been an increasing amount of subversive vandalism, such as the (in)famous template vandals. I would happily lend a hand there, as I know that this has been a problem, and the cascading protection Werdna recently added to the software is not fool-proof - there will always be someone that finds a way around of it, and there'll always be vandals. Such is the nature of open editing.. In either event, these are just examples.

2. Of your articles or contributions to Misplaced Pages, are there any with which you are particularly pleased, and why?

A: I have a wide range of contributions - from articles, to wikiprojects, to policy discussions, to RFCU clerking - but I think the single set of contributions I am most pleased with is the Misplaced Pages Neutrality Project. It surprised me, upon signing up to Misplaced Pages, that such a project on Misplaced Pages did not exist, so, being bold, I created it. It took a while to get of the ground, and has changed from my original vision a bit, however, I'm very pleased with how positive the contributions that project has made to Wikipeida, as a whole.

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?

A: In an environment with many diverse editors and views, conflict is an inevitability. I feel that everyone that has a complaint that states it with respect, should be treated with respect. While I have been in some fairly heated exchanges, I have tried to treat everyone that has a complaint with my conduct or edits with the upmost respect. Everyone here is a respected contributor, and so I extend that respect fully and without hesitation. Sometimes when exchanges are particularly heated, I say things in ways that are not the best, but I try to always apologise and make things right. We are all here to help improve the encyclopedia. While we may sometimes disagree, it's a necessary part of establishing consensus. We must just remember, we are all here for the same goal, and we must try to remember and enjoy the beauty of us all working together for a common goal.

General comments

• See Wizardry Dragon's edit summary usage with mathbot's tool. For the edit count, see the talk page.
• I would ask all involved in this discussion to be respectful to everyone voting here, support, oppose or neutral. Especially the oppose and neutral votes. Everyone with a complaint that presents it respectfully should be treated with upmost respect. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 04:32, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

• An awful lot of Peter's main space edits are AWB-assisted cleanup of one sort of another, and a lot of his project space edits are as a checkuser clerk. Both very important tasks. But (and this will be an unfair "but" in some respects) I get the feeling that Peter would like to be an admin in order to be an admin, rather than being an encyclopedia person who reluctantly shoulders an additional burden. This is an unfair "but" because I can't point to specific diffs, it's just a hunch. I am certain he would not be a deliberately bad admin, but I wonder if he may be too eager--although I can't describe clearly why this would be bad, except for a gut feeling. Sorry. Thatcher131 05:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Actually I was very strongly leaning towards opposing this nomination at first, for a few reasons. First of all, I don't really *need* the tools for what it is I do - though they definetley would be of assistance. Secondly, I am every leery of some of the ongoing large disputes that have burnt out many administrators and don't want to be a party to those. However, on further reflection, I thought back to all the times someone said to me "you're not an admin?" or "you should be an admin" - my response was always "if the community wants me to be an admin, they will make me one. So, I thought it would be best to let them reply. It is not the end of the world if the RFA doesn't pass, and I'll keep on chugging one way or another. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 06:00, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I was going to post this in response to Erikster, until I realised he is one of the few (but vocal) proponents of using blog.myspace as a reference. I am one of about 6 people on Misplaced Pages that actually sees almost every external link added to the project, and the person who compiles the statistics (all available at the bottom of my userpage), I can assure Erikster and Amarkov below that blog.myspace has no place on Misplaced Pages and Jimbo's decision is quite correct. It's a resource that cannot be cross referenced, it's often hard to know if it's official or impersonation (Brian May from Queen (band) has three impersonators on MySpace and there's more than one Richard Wright (Pink Floyd) on MySpace at the moment too here and here and, whilst in no way a generalisation, the arguments of those supporting blog.myspace are exceptionally weak, we all know if a hardly notable indie band said they sold 30 billion zillion records, they would be laughed at, derided or plain ignored, but if they say so on their blog, it's regarded as being true by those who use blog.myspace as a quick and easy way to reference the un-referenceable. If it's on blog.myspace it can be included in their article on Misplaced Pages. At the moment, reliable news sources (Reuters, AP, BBC, CNN, London Times etc) make up just 23% of external links being added to Misplaced Pages, not good for the project, I'm sure you'll agree. I know and most of my fellow Wikipedians know how absurd this sort of situation is and it's excellent to see someone like Peter taking a brave step and actually doing something that's made out to be controversial (though isn't really, a vocal minority don't create controversy, just a lot of noise) rather than plodding merrily along making pointless, wasteful, and downright nuisance WP:ILIKEIT !votes to XfDs, going through Admin Coaching and being hell-bent on becoming an administrator. What your opposing on here today, fellow Wikipedians, is nothing more than the flimsiest of excuses (Peter having already having been exonerated by Jimbo) and it's all the more shocking that it's as a result of a fantastic and brave drive to improve the quality of this project. It takes more than writers to create Encyclopedia Britannica, and the same is true of Misplaced Pages. --Kind Regards - Heligoland 11:08, 16 January 2007 (UTC) Support"

1. Support - per nom. GeorgeMoney (talk) 02:00, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
2. Nom Support --Kind Regards - Heligoland 02:01, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
3. Nom Support —— Eagle 101 02:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
4. Nom support Betacommand 02:04, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
5. Support Will make a fine admin.--Húsönd 02:08, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
6. Support - dedicated, helpful user; will make good use of the tools. He knows how they work and will use them wisely and efficently. — Editor at Large 02:09, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
7. Support --Elaragirl 02:09, 16 January 2007 (UTC) (interrupted my AWB run for this vote!)
8. Support as nom -- Selmo 02:23, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
9. Support Per nom. --Sir James Paul, La gloria è a dio 02:25, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
10. Support per nominations and votes already cast. — The still-Esperanzan  $PЯINGrαgђ  Always loyal! 02:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
11. Support - good editor. Yuser31415 03:05, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
12. support; already doing admin-like tasks. article-writer != admin for me. ~Crazytales (talk) 03:28, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

    Support. I don't care about article contributions, and everything else looks fine. -Amarkov _edits 03:38, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

    (changed to oppose)

13. Support- JorcogaYell! 03:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
14. Support he will be a good admin :) FrancoGG 03:42, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
15. Support Definitely deserves tools, as her understands policy. Per nomination, and the many co-noms following. Alex43223 03:44, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
16. Support Gzkn 03:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
17. Support Worthy of the tools, and would make very good use of them IMO. --Sagaciousuk 04:32, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
18. Support Wizardry Dragon has been a great asset to the project, and deserves the tools. To rebute what is said in oppose. His contributions on the toolserver, and in other ways have been fairly useful. You should not have to contribute thousands of articles to the mainspace to qualify for sysop access, when we clearly need sysops. Expecially those with a desire to handle more backend work, and have the experience to put the tools to use. I hope those below can rethink what they believe hurts this editor's RfA and put another light onto things. Somitho 04:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
19. Support Carpet9 04:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose I strongly believe that an admin should have a solid experience with working in the mainspace especially in some article writing. WD has 685 mainspace edits almost all of them been AWB, reverts or tagging. Sorry about it. Alex Bakharev 02:49, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   Out of curiosity, what to you consitutes "solid experience"? I have been active on few articles overall, I will freely admit, however, I have made some very extensive edits to some articles, including BattleTech technology. I would be more active in article writing myself if it didn't seem that many of the articles I'm interested in did not draw disputes. I can handle disputes well, in my opinion, however, one who willingly goes into a dispute, is, in my opinion, disruptive. Lately, I have found a new flame in article writing with expanding on stub articles, which I feel is very productive. See my copy editing to Gap loss or minor edits to Guy Marchant as examples. Really I think its not the NUMBER of edits that should be the sole determinant, but the quality thereof. Of course, more edits is more assurance that it wasn't a fluke, but I feel I've made enough content edits to judge. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 03:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   I would formulate it as being the major editor behind a Feature Article or being the major editor behind a few WP:DYK/GA/A or B class articles or making vandalism revertions/style/spelling/grammar/MOS fixes measured in thousands. I have put as my criterium 3K mainspace edits but this is just a rule of thumb. Obviously good edits significanly expanding articles require lesser numbers and semi-automatical edits require higher numbers. Alex Bakharev 03:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   Is making significant expansions to mainspace articles a key requirement for adminship nowadays? I think it needs to be appreciated that some editors are not significant article expanders, but improve and maintain articles and other aspects of Misplaced Pages instead. It's obvious now that Misplaced Pages consists of more than just mainspace articles that need regular attention. --Sagaciousuk 04:00, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   There is no official requirements for admins, but this is certainly a part of my own requirements. Actually Wiki is an encyclopedia (that is mainspace), anything else exists there only if it helps to develop the articles. Particularily, admins exist only to make comfortable environment for productive users to work in the mainspace. Without first hand main space experience it is very difficult to see if a controversial admin action makes editors more or less comfortable. The other reason is that promotion without significant mainspace contributions generates We vs They mentality. It is not We who are writing the articles, the articles are written by an anonymous grey mass (Them), We are different: We rule, enjoy power games and occasionaly hit Them on the head. Such a mentality usually does not help. The third reason that an admin is occasionally have to warn devoted mainspace editors with say 50K+ edits. Believe me it is much easier to do if you have some mainspace contributions he or she respect. Alex Bakharev 06:54, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

2. Oppose with less the 700 edits to the mainspace makes me a little nervous with this RFA. Also the edits are primarily with the AWB. Another problem I see is the wikipedia space, I see literally "no" XFD's. Arjun 03:23, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   Comment - I think wiz does have some experiance with XFD's. WP:MFD/Wikipedia:Esperanza, WP:TFD, WP:TfD agian, Deletion review, WP:AFD/Ultima Dragons, and here where he creates an AFD AFD/CreationWiki. All in all, his contributions to XfD's are more then just simple !support or !oppose, he comes at them with a good argument. I hope this clears up some things. Cheers! —— Eagle 101 03:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

3. Oppose While I am not familiar with the user's Misplaced Pages history, I recently had dialogue with him regarding his usage of AWB to blindly delete all blog.myspace.com links. While blog links and Myspace links are generally not acceptable, several editors and myself contested his removal of valid links to Myspace blogs, as seen on his talk page. Peter told a user to stop repeating the argument that was trying to be made, although the user had identified two new stances to back the argument that was being presented -- Point #11 of "Links normally to be avoided" and the WP:RS acceptance of primary sources (the official nature of certain Myspace blogs) for descriptive points. He has continued the same AWB activity today without investigating Myspace blogs on their merits, and the negative response from other editors is clear on his talk page. If this is the cooperation he will have as an admin, I have to oppose. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 03:44, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   Actually Wizardry Dragon was completely right in doing so as Jimbo apparently requested that all such links be added to the meta spam blacklist. So take it up with Jimbo, not Wizardry Dragon. Cowman109 03:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   He may have. The issue isn't so much that the links were removed, it's that he continued to remove them, after being asked not to. If he was aware that Jimbo requested the links be added to the blacklist, he should have said that, but he didn't. -Amarkov _edits 04:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   Ah - wait a second, how was it possible to re-add the link? Users should not have been able to re-add the link unless it was added to the spamlist afterwards... Odd. Cowman109 04:05, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   Furthermore, why should he have to use Jimbo as a defense for removing disputed external links? --Sagaciousuk 04:06, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   To Sagacious: Because dispute is not a reason to AWB external links. As to why the blacklist doesn't work, what was blacklisted was "blogs/.myspace/.com". That's not going to match "blog.myspace.com". -Amarkov _edits 04:10, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   Oppose Nice guy and seems committed to the project. But needs more mainspace contributions to confirm his ability to judge encyclopedic content -- Samir धर्म 03:53, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   Retracted: -- Samir धर्म 06:28, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

4. No, per recent contentious controversial activity (per Erik for example) and especially per lack of article writing. WP:ENC. – Chacor 03:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   See above rebuttal, please. Cowman109 04:00, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

5. Changed to oppose per Erik. I still don't care about whether or not someone contributes to the encyclopedia very much. -Amarkov _edits 03:58, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   And I hate to spam opposers as this is probably viewed as intimidation, but see above please, as the circumstances probably require that this is nipped in the bud (is that even the proper saying?) before it turns into a trail of oppose based on Jimbo's request. Cowman109 04:02, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   Don't worry, I really don't understand why people would oppose based on behavior of supporters. But it really isn't necessary; anyone who watches this would see your comment, and if they aren't watching it, replying isn't going to help. -Amarkov _edits 04:05, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   Amarkov, you said above that your problem was with me continuing to add them after they were contended, however, can you please point out me readding them after the discussion? I do not think I did, and if I did, it was a mistake and should be remedied. If you mean continuing to remove myspace, I have kept in mind the complaints that have raised, and have tried to be more discerning with my removals of myspace. As one user said, "they should be judged on thier own merits." I agree with that, and have been trying to be more careful. If you have a specific complaint, then please tell me, as that's the only way I can know what people think of my work, is feedback, and it's how I can fix issues and improve. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 04:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   You used AWB, even after being told that you shouldn't. You do not use AWB for things which require more than minimal discretion. It obviously conveys the impression of semi-automated edits, which is bad, and worse, it encourages clicking through, so even if you are not consciously doing so, you're not evaluating as clearly as you should be. -Amarkov _edits 04:42, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   This edit made today was reverted by a user citing that the Myspace blog belonged to the director to share information of the film. Using the AWB could delete appropriate links, and not everyone is going to be able to revert the changes you've made. Who knows what's been lost in the mass deletion process? —Erik (talk • contrib) - 04:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   I would Like to point out that the blacklist was modified and that the s in blogs was removed. I assume this was a typo by Raul654 Betacommand 04:52, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

6. Oppose. For me, the answer to the question pose by the candidate his acceptance statement, the short answer is no. There is not enough contribution to both main and wiki spaces to make me comfortable, which also goes to the need for the buttons. However, there are too many other things that sit wrong with me. The first is the mass of co-noms, the first which refers to this nominee's participation in "other official channels" (sic). If this is a reference to all the off-wiki chatter that goes on at IRC, etc., that doesn't make me feel confident. I am also leery in RfAs where the majority of "oppose" comments require some sort of "rebuttal" by the candidate or his or her nominators. That this nominee is the creator of the "Neutrality Project" also leaves me uneasy, as it adds yet a new bureaucracy to wikipedia that wasn't really necessary. This is not the place to argue the merits of this new project, suffice to say the {{POV}} template is more than sufficient for flagging POV issues, and I'm unable to fully trust these types of wiki-clubs that set themselves off from the rest of the community and project some sort of authority that isn't necessary. I am sure that this nominee is a very nice person, but I felt compelled to answer the blunt question that was put. Agent 86 04:46, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   Actually, I too am concerned with the replies to the oppose votes, and it is why I posted the comment I did. If this turns into a group of editors harassing everybody that opposes me, I will withdraw. I feel that everyone with a complaint that presents it respectfully should be treated with respect, and the "pile on" on oppose votes concerns me. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 04:51, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

7. Oppose nice guy, but the overall impression I get of this user is summed up by the word "officious". (This isn't really the place, but I have reservations about this "neutrality project" that largely parallel Agent86's.) Needs more experience in substantive and sustained article building to acquire "in the field" as well as "by the book" perspective on policy. Opabinia regalis 06:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
8. Oppose the mainspace contribution is far too weak. There are 600 odd mainspace article edits, and most are either automated or tagging, etc. The latest 200 or so, were done in groups of about 50 edits taking about 1 hour each to do a set of 50 AWB edits. There is simply far too few meaty edits. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 06:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   Oppose - nothing against you, but a lack of mainspace edits (which are mainly AWB). Insanephantom (my Editor Review) 09:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

9. Oppose - extremely weak main space contributions, too much use of AWB and not enough use of the "Edit this page" tab. thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 09:23, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
10. Oppose, lacks of article contributions, I expect some article writing when one applies to become an admin. This user has done a lot of work in the community side of things, keep it up. Terence Ong 11:43, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
11. Oppose. I don't care about the mainspace. I have seen this user around the admin noticeboards and other Misplaced Pages talk areas, and I have often seen remarks I do not believe are appropriate for an administrator. RyanGerbil10(Упражнение В!) 12:02, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

    In response to the inevitable request for diffs, the user's opposition to ProtectionBot is a recent enough example of the user failing to understand what is good for Misplaced Pages. RyanGerbil10(Упражнение В!) 12:05, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

12. Strong Oppose. Little if any experience of writing this encyclopedia. Needs to show an interest and dedication to the project before trying to climb the ladder. Giano 12:11, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Neutral

1. It would be churlish of me to oppose someone who does the dirty work at RFCU. Peter does great work there and I have no doubt that he'll make a good administrator some day. At the time, I can't support with so little experience in the main space. Mackensen (talk) 05:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
2. Neutral leaning towards support - while the lack of mainspace edits (particularly discounting AWB edits) is worrying, the candidate clearly does a lot of useful work. The Rambling Man 07:53, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
3. Neutral, switched from oppose, despite the lack of mainspace edits, it does not necessarily indicate a lack of trust from me. Insanephantom (my Editor Review) 09:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
4. Neutral. Fantastic work, but a good engineer has to have been a mechanic. You need to know what it's like being an editor if you want to help them. yandman 10:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
5. Moved to neutral per his exemplery work in removing blog and myspace links from Misplaced Pages. I am willing to support if he cares to remove the oversight and chairperson hiearchy from the neutrality project. Regards, — Nearly Headless Nick 11:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

   Peter M. Dodge, head of Misplaced Pages neutrality project, eh? I am not supporting anyone who fuels hiearchies on Misplaced Pages. — Nearly Headless Nick 11:08, 16 January 2007 (UTC)