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Revision as of 12:52, 28 May 2021

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Missvain (talk) 22:35, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Andrew Dismukes

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Andrew Dismukes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:ENTERTAINER. All RS relate specifically to his 2020 hiring as a supporting cast member on the U.S. television serial "Saturday Night Live" and are BLP 1E. Other references like earnthenecklace.com and capcitycomedy.com are not RS. He was a group nominee for an Emmy; while being nominated for an Emmy might infer notability, being part of a group of 82 people nominated (and not winning) one does not. A WP:BEFORE on newspapers.com, Google News, Google Books, and JSTOR returns many results but entirely in non-RS or in RS offering only fleeting mentions such as episode credits during his handful of SNL appearances. May be WP:TOOSOON. Chetsford (talk) 06:55, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 07:04, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 07:04, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Entertainment-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 07:04, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU 07:25, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm not really sure BLP1E applies to someone on a recurring TV show, which is not a single event. It's not clear to me whether Dismukes meets WP:ENTERTAINER but I do think we're likely to see more coverage of him after tonight's show, e.g. . I did reach out to them to see if we could get a photo donated after they pointed it out on tonight's show so I don't plan on casting a vote. Legoktm (talk) 07:26, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

• Strong Keep I know he writes and performs on SNL, an iconic sketch comedy show, but is this nomination a joke??! The very night he complains on his national television show that his article doesn't have a photo, suddenly that article gets nominated for deletion?! Obviously, someone was watching. Or is this just an attempt to get the article mentioned on national television again next week?!! Seriously, even a cursory Google search of his name under the News, lists articles featuring his name (within the last hour at the time of this writing alone), in Paste Magazine, USA Today, Entertainment Weekly and Deadline; and within the last week on MarketWatch, Consequence, New York Post, IndieWire, Vanity Fair, Daily Mail, The Globe and Mail and OK Magazine. Others recently include Yahoo News and US Weekly. That alone passes WP:BASIC and is indeed WP:GNG. Another commenter already correctly noted that WP:BLP1E applies to a single event, not a recurring tv show. Curiously, even the nominator notes that he was nominated for a Primetime Emmy. However, he was actually nominated for 2 Primetime Emmys: in both 2018 and 2019; as well as 2 Writers Guild Award nominations in 2019 and 2020. He also won a Special Jury Award at the Florida Film Festival for the short film "Call Me Brother" in 2018. Those honors certainly qualify under WP:ANYBIO and easily pass WP:ARTIST and WP:NACTOR, as does the fact that his article had to be semi-protected immediately following his televised comments. Subject has been a writer on SNL since 2018 and been a cast member in over two dozen episodes since 2020. He also continues to perform as an actor and stand-up comic in his own right. I could go on, but in the history of AfD's this one is easily the biggest no-brainer yet. Comedy itself is harder than this! Who are we trying to cancel next, Liz Cheney?! X4n6 (talk) 07:43, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

• "certainly qualify under WP:ANYBIO and easily pass WP:ARTIST and WP:NACTOR" I'm sure the Florida Film Festival is a fun event, but I hardly think winning an award at it constitutes a "significant cultural monument" as prescribed by the inherent notability standards you cited. Chetsford (talk) 16:06, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• Judging from both the quantity and quality of your fail here, was your last job reading tea leaves on the Titanic? For the record, re: subject's win at the Florida Film Festival, which you called "a fun event": "A win at the festival qualifies a film for Academy Award consideration." Which you would/should have known if you'd bothered to read even its WP article before disparaging it! And among all the guidelines I referenced, which uses the phrase a "significant cultural moment?" Exactly none. If you're going to paraphrase, don't use quotations. That's just misquoting, which adds to the embarrassment. Honestly, Chetsford, did you do ANY research before this nom?? I also see you felt the need to debate virtually every adverse comment and !vote. Bad move. Or maybe you were just so embarrassed, you doubled down. And you're an admin?? You really should have just withdrawn this nom once you saw how badly it was going. C'mon pal, next time, do the work. Also, read the room. And check your ego. To be fair, these comments come after closure. But they are comments not !votes - and they needed to be said - and added to the record. X4n6 (talk) 11:23, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

• Strong Keep: This article needs cleanup, not deletion. And the fact that he has been nominated for four awards (two Emmys, two Writers Guild) shows that he is clearly notable. Additionally, I don’t think one can consider his casting on SNL as a single event since it is a recurring show watched by millions. It’s not like he was hired for a one-off comedy special nor is it like he only made one appearance on the show. CAMERAwMUSTACHE (talk) 15:05, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

• "And the fact that he has been nominated for four awards (two Emmys, two Writers Guild) shows that he is clearly notable." At the risk of sounding redundant, this - like many of the arguments here - is not an argument based in our policy as it exists today. (Aside from the fact that saying he was "nominated for an Emmy" when he was part of an 82-person group nomination is a little disingenuous.) Chetsford (talk) 16:00, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• Strong Keep He's a cast member and writer on SNL, and he's been nominated for various awards, including two Emmys. It's ridiculous that this is even being discussed. Modern184 (talk) 15:28, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

• "He's a cast member and writer on SNL" We don't currently have a policy that says cast members of SNL get Misplaced Pages articles for no other reason than they're a cast member on SNL. Chetsford (talk) 16:04, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• Keep easily passes WP:GNG. . While all of those are about him joining the cast, he continues to get coverage for being a cast member, particularly because he wasn't thrilled about the Elon Musk thing. Not the best nom. SportingFlyer T·C 13:14, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• All of the articles you cited are from the same month and are coverage of his hiring, therefore, are covered by WP:BLP1E in the absence of any other in-depth coverage. I keep hearing that he's continuing to get coverage but, thus far, have seen no examples of said coverage beyond fleeting mentions in cast lists and episode summaries. When I ask for examples of all this in-depth coverage I'm met with an exasperated declaration "but he's a cast member of SNL!" Notability must be demonstrated, not simply decreed. Not the best !vote. Chetsford (talk) 16:02, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• Every episode gets media coverage, so he gets discussed whenever he appears. See recaps like . WP:BLP1E also has three elements, of which the second is: If that person otherwise remains, and is likely to remain, a low-profile individual. Clearly not the case here. Also, if showing GNG is a bad vote, then I'm happy if all my !votes are bad. SportingFlyer T·C 17:59, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• Keep - Saturday Night Live is the crown jewel of American comedy. Any cast member becomes notable just for being a member of that elite show. I therefore think that any person chosen to be a cast member on SNL satisfies criteria #3 of WP:ENTERTAINER (a unique contribution to a field of entertainment). Banana Republic (talk) 13:33, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• "Saturday Night Live is the crown jewel of American comedy. Any cast member becomes notable just for being a member of that elite show." This is not an argument based in our policy. As said repeatedly, we don't currently have a policy that says cast members of SNL get Misplaced Pages articles for no other reason than they're a cast member on SNL. Chetsford (talk) 16:00, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Nice attempt at cherrypicking. Read the entire !vote. It is the basis for why I think he satisfies criteria #3 of WP:ENTERTAINER. Banana Republic (talk) 16:11, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Criteria #3 is that the entertainer "Has made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment." Do you have an RS to support the idea that an actor who has appeared in a handful of minor roles on SNL in the last two months has, therefore, "made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment?" Even the inherent notability criteria require demonstration in RS, not merely declaration as a matter of personal approval of the BLP's performing ability. Chetsford (talk) 16:14, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• Strong Keep for all above reasons. Sure, the article looks like a stub at first sight, but deleting it isn't the answer, active upkeep of the article is. Cheers, u|RayDeeUx (contribs | talk page) 13:42, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
• Comment to Closer: If the !voting were to end right now I would call this no consensus on the basis that no reasonable policy-based arguments to Keep have been advanced. For now, to avoid WP:DEADHORSEing this AfD, I'm going to unwatchlist it and stop replying as it doesn't seem likely any arguments other than "he's a cast member of SNL" or "he was part of a group that was nominated for an Emmy" are going to be proffered or are even possible. But please imagine I'm still in this AfD and am responding "this is not a policy based reason to Keep" to all subsequent iterations of this argument. Thanks - Chetsford (talk) 16:31, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• I reject the notion that "no reasonable policy-based arguments to Keep have been advanced". Just because you don't agree with those arguments does not mean that they were not presented. Banana Republic (talk) 20:10, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• Strong keep There's no way you're to get a delete or redirect result on this...the subject is obviously notable as a cast member and writer on a very popular TV series and a deletion review re-open wasn't needed. No amount of 'but this (WP:)!' is going to change anyone's mind at this point. Nate • (chatter) 19:35, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
• Strong keep Dismukes is notable because he's a cast member on this venerable American show. There is no reasonable argument for Dismukes not being notable. He's a cast member and a writer on this sketch show, the amount of time he does or does not spend on screen has nothing to do with his notability. Jessamyn (talk) 20:50, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
• Comment OK I'll bite, these are RS that I think support his notability. Stubs have been written about people with less. Jessamyn (talk) 21:48, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Paste Magazine - establishes that he's been a writer on SNL for "a few years" and also goes on about his talent in the most recent show.

Emmy nomination - sure he's one of 30-ish writers but that's the nature of this show.

Texas Monthly - establishes more facts about Dismukes

Austin Statesman - numerous mentions about what he was up to in college

NBC.com - more facts about him

Fort Worth Star Telegram - short Texas-local article about when he was hired

• Snow keep. Is this a joke? Ample coverage exists for GNG. This looks like we are punishing him for mentioning that he didn't have a photo on his article on SNL. gobonobo 15:40, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

I tried to take this ill advised AfD nomination out of its misery, but was severely chastised for it, even though the reviewers did not necessarily approve of the wisdom of this nomination. This disruptive AfD will therefore have to stay open for an entire week.

Ironically, Misplaced Pages claims to not be a bureaucracy. As my experience shows, this is obviously just a motto, not reality.

Banana Republic (talk) 01:21, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

• Strong keep This seems silly. There is only one SNL cast member in the history of the show who doesn't have their own page, and that is featured player Dan Vitale, who was on the show for only three episodes in 1985. Dismukes has been a writer for several seasons, during which the show was nominated for an Emmy, and is now a featured player who has already been in more than three episodes. Yes, I'm partially making an argument from "What about article x?", which is not entirely professional, but the fact that a deletion page was created for this article the morning after Dismukes mentioned his Misplaced Pages article on Weekend Update has made the whole discussion unprofessional. JaneOstensible (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 17:26, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
• Speedy Keep almost every SNL actor has a Misplaced Pages article, especially ones who also write on the show for 3 seasons. Clearly notable. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 21:07, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
• Strong keep I was so astonished that this page is marked for deletion that I went to the trouble to figure out how to add my comments here. Sorry if I did it wrong, but of course he deserves an article. I know the rules say to assume the person who flagged this article for deletion acted in good faith, but I'm finding it difficult to extend the benefit of the doubt here. I believe this person either is a troll or doesn't know much about U.S. television. A quick Google search turns up plenty of media coverage, for example, the article I've cited here.

2601:244:8400:8640:3016:8D5B:1B8D:EF1A (talk) 04:47, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

The nominator is actually a system admin on Misplaced Pages. Banana Republic (talk) 13:28, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

• Keep are per everybody else. Mr. C.C._{I didn't do it!} 13:48, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.