Talk:Pneumonia: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 16:46, 22 November 2021 editJenOttawa (talk \| contribs)Event coordinators, Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers12,389 edits please jump in ahead of me here if you wish :) .Tag: 2017 wikitext editor ← Previous edit		Revision as of 12:50, 7 January 2022 edit undo2600:6c5e:5e7f:d2b7:a0af:2773:1bd5:ad95 (talk)No edit summaryNext edit →
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	== Please harmonize the internal contradiction about the cause of pneumonia ==		== Please harmonize the internal contradiction about the cause of pneumonia ==

	In the '''Cause''' section you cite , a paper which puts viruses well ahead of bacteria in causing pneumonia. Later, in the '''Bacteria''' section you state that "Bacteria are the most common cause" with a different reference (#35 Sharma 2007), putting a direct contradiction into this article, just a few lines apart. It's also problematic that the latter is just a review pointing somewhere else - like in the children's telephone game. The former reference is better and an actual research publication. It would be great if somebody rewrote both section to remove or qualify this contradiction and make the article better. JS		In the '''Cause''' section you cite , a paper which puts viruses well ahead of bacteria in causing pneumonia. Later, in the '''Bacteria''' section you state that "Bacteria are the most common cause" with a different reference (#35 Sharma 2007), putting a direct contradiction into this article, just a few lines

	PS: Just as in the telephone game the numbers have been misquoted. It says "20% haemophilus" but it was 20 cases or 7% in the original paper!		PS: Just as in the telephone game the numbers have been misquoted. It says "20% haemophilus" but it was 20 cases or 7% in the original paper!

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Links about Coronavirus as cause

at link 11 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21435708/

It says that infections comes together bacterial and viral. But on virus infection, it gives feel like, viruses can cause pneumonia.

"Dual viral infections are common, and a third of children have evidence of viral-bacterial co-infection. In adults, viruses are the putative causative agents in a third of cases of community-acquired pneumonia, in particular influenza viruses, rhinoviruses, and coronaviruses. Bacteria continue to have a predominant role in adults with pneumonia."

On page, there are no clear understanding of a thing. The last sentence says, the bacterial infections are dominant.

Nowdays, because of "corona pandemic" maybe not. I tend not to believe for governments, because of lack pictures of the virus in public domain. Today EM microscopes can easily make resolution of 0.1 nm, what about some virus that 100 nm?

It should be checked twice links. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:A040:198:313F:9495:E07C:68C3:D47D (talk) 02:14, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure what you are asking, but bacteria are the most common cause of Pneumonia in general. In infants and toddlers, RSV is generally the most common cause. The link you provided isn't contradicting itself. Dual infections often happen with viral infections leading to a bacterial infection as well. I'm not sure if that is what you are confused about? Battykin (talk) 23:00, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

"Necrotizing pneumonia" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Necrotizing pneumonia. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs) 01:42, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Limitations on diagnosis

Mikalra added the Jain 2015 NEJM study which showed the limitations of advanced diagnostics in determining the aetiology of CAP (doi:10.1056/NEJMoa1500245). This study, while groundbreaking, does not comply with WP:MEDRS. Currently the observation on this problem is cited in the body of the article to a source called EBMED05, which is now 15 years old and should be updated in line with MEDRS.

Oddly the updated ATS guideline does not discuss the poor yield of investigations, but the Jain study is cited in doi:10.1097/MCP.0000000000000671. I'm sure this would be a good alternative to EBMED05 for this information as well as some other bits. JFW | T@lk 14:47, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

This study didn't use 'advanced diagnostics,' but routine laboratory diagnostics such as PCR and urinary antigen testing. You're right that "the observation on this problem is cited in the body of the article to a source called EBMED05;" the Jain study is an example of that problem and is a large and relatively recent report in institutions equipped to address the question.Mikalra (talk) 15:54, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

For many healthcare settings, the diagnostics used in Jain2015 were definitely "advanced". In the UK the viral PCR panel in pneumonia only includes influenza and RSV unless the host is immunocompromised. JFW | T@lk 15:01, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

@Mikalra: The Jain 2015 reference is not an appropriate source, so it has been removed again. Please review WP:MEDRS for explanation. JFW | T@lk 11:13, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 November 2020

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I would like to enhance this page's coverage of the robustly established relationship between SARS-CoV-2 and pneumonia.

Change "Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) can also result in pneumonia."

"Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) can also result in pneumonia. The virus infects and destroys the cells of the alveoli, both those that are ciliated and those that produce mucus and surfactant . Because the cilia cannot function properly, fluid and cellular debris accumulate in the alveoli, which can cause pneumonia . Teddymhill (talk) 02:06, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

This can only be supported with very high quality references. A newspaper article would not be sufficient, nor an animal study. The pathogenesis is probably more complicated than you have indicated: there is diffuse alveolar damage and immunothrombosis. Hence not supporting this addition at this time. JFW | T@lk 21:27, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

References

Please harmonize the internal contradiction about the cause of pneumonia

In the Cause section you cite #28 Jain 2015, a paper which puts viruses well ahead of bacteria in causing pneumonia. Later, in the Bacteria section you state that "Bacteria are the most common cause" with a different reference (#35 Sharma 2007), putting a direct contradiction into this article, just a few lines

PS: Just as in the telephone game the numbers have been misquoted. It says "20% haemophilus" but it was 20 cases or 7% in the original paper!

Good catch here @JS. I can help make this edit. As for the review article, this is one of differences between medical writing on Misplaced Pages and writing for a peer-reviewed medical journal- the use of the WP:MEDRS guideline preferring high-quality secondary sources to primary research sources. It is not always perfect- i.e.- susceptibilty to the 'telephone game' errors, however, some feel that there are strengths as well to this approach given that anyone can edit these articles. I will not have time to review the citations for a few days, but will try to circle back soon. Citations to consider: Primary source, presently ref # 28 Jain et al 2015. . Outdated secondary source (does not meet WP:MEDDATE): JenOttawa (talk) 16:39, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

P.S- if anyone wants to beat me to this improvement please do go ahead!!! There are a lot of outdated references in the aforementioned sections. JenOttawa (talk) 16:46, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

Jain, Seema; Self, Wesley H.; Wunderink, Richard G.; Fakhran, Sherene; Balk, Robert; Bramley, Anna M.; Reed, Carrie; Grijalva, Carlos G.; Anderson, Evan J.; Courtney, D. Mark; Chappell, James D. (2015-07-30). "Community-Acquired Pneumonia Requiring Hospitalization among U.S. Adults". The New England Journal of Medicine. 373 (5): 415–427. doi:10.1056/NEJMoa1500245. ISSN 1533-4406. PMC 4728150. PMID 26172429.
Sharma, Sat; Maycher, Bruce; Eschun, Gregg (May, 2007). "Radiological imaging in pneumonia: recent innovations". Current Opinion in Pulmonary Medicine. 13 (3): 159–169. doi:10.1097/MCP.0b013e3280f3bff4. ISSN 1070-5287. PMID 17414122. {{cite journal}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)

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