Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 14:11, 9 May 2022

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Pratītyasamutpāda article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 30 days

Template:Vital article

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Buddhism Top‑importance This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Buddhism, an attempt to promote better coordination, content distribution, and cross-referencing between pages dealing with Buddhism. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page for more details on the projects.BuddhismWikipedia:WikiProject BuddhismTemplate:WikiProject BuddhismBuddhism Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Philosophy: Religion / Eastern Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Misplaced Pages.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Associated task forces: /  Philosophy of religion Eastern philosophy Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Religion Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Misplaced Pages's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Systems Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Systems, which collaborates on articles related to systems and systems science.SystemsWikipedia:WikiProject SystemsTemplate:WikiProject SystemsSystems Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is not associated with a particular field. Fields are listed on the template page.

Transcendental section

Thanks Kukku - that is better than my earlier hash. The transcendental section doesn't actually fit underneath the madhyamaka section very well, and though the facts may well be good, I am concerned about the interpretations- things like 'quanta' really seem out of place, even in metaphoric terms. (20040302 09:49, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC))

Edits to the last para. were made just to attempt to make it a bit more easy to read. I also replaced the elements of causality as rather than - please revert, edit, destroy as you see fit, Kukku. (20040302 11:49, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC))

Also, the Dualism article pertaining to 'eastern mysticism' needs to be edited! I had a quick hash of it, but it is still pretty dodgy. (20040302 11:52, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC))

I am concerned about the very western term: Transcendental, to me it reduces Buddhist philosophy to Platonic/Cartesian/Kantian ontologies and would bring all the baggage that rests with Transcendentalism onto the Buddhist doorstep. Is there no better term? Or can we cite the school/translation school who uses it? (20040302 22:50, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC))

Hmm. Fair point. Actually, do you know what the hell that whole section is about? I've never heard of it, so I don't know how to fix it. -- कुक्कुरोवाच|Talk‽

Okay, Google helped me out a bit on this front and I made some adjustments accordingly. See what you think. -- कुक्कुरोवाच|Talk‽ 23:11, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Big cheesy grin. Great. (20040302 23:46, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC))

is it a "contribution to metaphysic" ? at least, the bramajala suta should be mentionned
what about the time : past-present-future in the dependant origination ? i think this interpretation is quite "modern" , i mean not at the beginning. Per exemple, the Buddhagosa 's Visuddhimagga does not mentions this version.
-buddho

Upadana

Hi, I've redirected Upadana here, because I think it is related. We're trying to take care of every article in Misplaced Pages:2004 Encyclopedia topics, and that was one. Can someone familiar, create a sentence or so in this article on Upadana? Thanks - Taxman 15:39, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

OK I take that back, there are more facets to upadana than just Buddhism. But if someone can help with it that would be great. - Taxman 15:45, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

I have made some additions to the page adding formula tables, additional formula references and some notes. There is more to be done before the article is balanced. I will add some further text soon.

First time I've added notes to a talk page. Don't know if I have done it correctly. We will see. stray 16:08:00, 2005-08-05 (UTC)

Also added some content to Upadana page. This needs more work before its acceptable. It's just a stub at the moment. Will work on that too in the next few days. stray 16:10:52, 2005-08-05 (UTC)

Pali expression for paticca-samuppada

I think right Pali expression for paticca-samuppada is paţicca samuppāda. Isn't it?

lt.wikipedia.user.Gyvas (jonvit@gmail.com) 2006-March-09

Anti-Mahayana polemic pulled from technical note

All notions of self are included here ranging from the then extant views contained in the Upanishads, to the later views. Even notions that the body or the ego are not the self and that there is a higher, more refined self, whether as the Supreme Self of Vedanta or as the womb of the Tathagata of the Mahayana are essentially notions of self that fall under one of these categories. For example, the Vedantic notion is that of a formless and infinite self. The Mahayana notion is that of a formless but finite self. Some Mahayana traditions don't explicitly consider the womb of the Tathagata to be a self, but nevertheless, they consider it a persisting entity in all beings and in this sense it therefore is a clinging to self-view (sakkaya ditthi).

This article is still written by people who are only experts of their own views. In the above text, which has been excised, there are no basic citations that demonstrate any support for the assertion that Mahayana traditions as a whole cling to some form of self-view. Actually, it reveals a lack of study regarding the Mahayana traditions, all of whom assert Pratītyasamutpāda, and all of whom have faith in the four noble truths. A qualifying counter-example to the text above is the Madhyamaka tradition, which denies the objective (essence-holding) self, as well as all other phenomena; the only self that exists is the one used to indicate the difference between 'me' and 'you' - a conventional, unphilosophical, nominal self. It is true that other traditions accuse the Madhyamaka of being nihilists, but that is because for them they believe that some form of essential existence is necessary in order for Karma to function.

IMO, a lot of the technical notes and the basic text has been written over the last two years with a rather narrow, and in some places bigoted, view without much in the way of references or background to contextualise it. Buddhism is vast, deep, and multi-faceted. (20040302 (talk))

Idappaccayatā

The section on Idappaccayatā does not seem properly integrated into the article. There's no explanation about why this term is being introduced. As there is also a main article on the term, we should consider what content about the concept can be moved from this article to that one. Teishin (talk) 20:14, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

As Choong notes, Idappaccayatā is unique to the Pali suttas, an equivalent term is not found in the Agamas. As such, maybe its best to not use this term per se, but just indicate how there is a basic or general principle of conditionality that is described with the general phrase "when this is...etc". ☸Javierfv1212☸ 20:55, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Thinking about this some more, it seems to me that the whole section on Dependent Origination lacks narrative structure. It bounces from topic to topic without connecting the topics. Teishin (talk) 10:04, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

a variety of philosophical implications.

While there is some meat to this section, there does seem to be a lack of sources regarding the division into the list of implications. (20040302 (talk) 14:11, 9 May 2022 (UTC))

• All unassessed articles
• B-Class Buddhism articles
• Top-importance Buddhism articles
• B-Class Philosophy articles
• Low-importance Philosophy articles
• B-Class philosophy of religion articles
• Low-importance philosophy of religion articles
• Philosophy of religion task force articles
• B-Class Eastern philosophy articles
• Low-importance Eastern philosophy articles
• Eastern philosophy task force articles
• B-Class Religion articles
• Top-importance Religion articles
• WikiProject Religion articles
• B-Class Systems articles
• Low-importance Systems articles
• Unassessed field Systems articles
• WikiProject Systems articles