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Biography: Politics and Government B‑class

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Tigry, do you have any credible sources to back up your added info on Tymoshenko? From what I can see it appears that what you added is highly biased and should be conformed to a NPOV or confirmed by outside sources.

I have several sources from Russian and Ukrainian independent media, I indicate in this article that some of this info is only alleged - but not denied by any official sources, my sources can be provided if necessary - Tigry

Russia-Ukraine gas dispute

Should the Russia-Ukraine gas dispute be mentioned in this article? Yulia Timoshenko is mentioned in the Russia-Ukraine gas dispute article in wikipedia. Mariah-Yulia 05:18, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Location of page

The English language part of her website calls her Yulia Timoshenko. The BBC News website has been using the spelling Yulia Tymoshenko. Any ideas on where to put the page - this looks likely to be a case of "most common spelling in English media" overriding standard transliteration rules. Timrollpickering 19:47, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

On the English news page of her site I see only Tymoshenko, except for one example of boilerplate text reading Timoshenko. Yulia and Yuliya get about equal time. It looks like they're casually transliterating from Ukrainian, so I wouldn't consider the site's usage authoritative. Yuliya Tymoshenko is probably the best English transcription of the name. Timoshenko would reflect Russian spelling. If you want to explore other possibilities, look at the table in Romanization of Ukrainian. —Michael Z. 2005-01-22 16:54 Z

I run a search on Google. In general, three spellings are fairly common: 'Yulia Tymoshenko' gets 22,000 hits, 'Yuliya Tymoshenko' 17,600 and 'Yulia Timoshenko' 12,000. On Google News, however, 'Yulia Tymoshenko' is far more common than the other two, with 1,700 articles on Google News, 'Yulia Timoshenko' gets about 170 and 'Yuliya Tymoshenko' gets 57. This may indicate that English-language media have mostly accepted 'Yulia Tymoshenko' spelling by now. Andris 23:46, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Michael, especially regarding the first (given) name, which is nothing but Yuliya. Again, Michael is right talking of non-authoritative usage on her site. Remember, people: Ukraine is unfortunately not a fluent-English-speaking country (unlike Poland, India or any EC member). There is no much proper translators and no English conventional names/usages. AlexPU

There is no much proper translators and no English conventional names/usages - there are official english name translation for all persons who have their international passport (passport to be used outside of country borders) in addition to internal. There are rules for translation of ukranian names to english to be used in passports at Постанова КМУ вiд 24.03.2004 № 380 but it's still possible that alternative spellings issued as law allow this. TAG 13:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Grigyan/Telegina

In an interview, she has said that her father was Latvian, rather than Armenian. The interview is at in Russian, with the relevant excerpt translated in a newsgroup post . This sounds fairly plausible, as Grigyan could be Ukrainization of the Latvian family name Grigjanis/Grigjane. And "foreign interventionism" accusation in the article sounds both xenophobic and silly, so I propose to delete that sentence. Andris 17:37, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Makes sense. That info was added by some very anti-Tymoshenko person. Ambi 00:31, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

your sources www.ПРАВДА.com.ua and www.brama.com are ukrainian nationalist news agencies, and thus they have low credibility because they side with Yushcenko's government and have a tendency to alter the facts; as to "foreign interventionism" - it is made clear that it is an implication by her opponents

- Tigry 11:00, 28 Jan 2005 (EST)

Guys, just who the F cares of her ethnic descendance? I believe Yul'ka is not so important yet to expand her page in this direction. Instead, you'd better cleanup recent years of biograpy. Set your priorities. And check your sources twice. Best wishes, AlexPU

P.S. Not sure about brama, but Ukrayins'ka pravda is the most influential and credible political ezine in Ukraine. Representatives of all political groups consider an honor to publish their opinion there. Half of the articles are in Russian. What is so nationalistic about it? Tigry, may be, you meant not anti-Ukrainian by that? I'll watch you ass after such remark, tezka. AlexPU

Centerfold

I heard she'll be in Playboy.

I saw her on the front cover of a Ukrainian fashion magazine, like Vogue or something. She must be the most beautiful Prime Misister in the world! Take THAT Margaret Thatcher!

No kidding. Seems like the article should have a line "P.S. She's also totally hot." But I guess the pictures can tell you that. -Bert 171.159.64.10 03:23, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Huh! Sometimes I think she could not fix her eyes. Her inceassantly scampering eyes make her appearance creepy in real life (of course, still images are curing that "lying-syndrome"-lurgy very well).

Parentland

How to translate батьківщина (bat’kivshchyna) is an interesting question. Parentland is closest to a literal translation, but of course it's not an English word, and sounds kind of silly (from батьки, bat’ky, "parents", but the singular батько, bat’ko, means "father"). Motherland and fatherland are both English words, and both serve equally well as translations.

English tends to use the masculine form for neuter concepts. On the other hand, the Ukrainian word is a feminine noun (although it does represent a gender-neutral concept), and there is a common poetic notion of "Ukraine, native mother". The case to prefer motherland is not strong, but I can't think of any argument in preference of fatherland at all. —Michael Z. 2005-06-17 05:19 Z

I thought Motherland sounded more familiar, but a comparison of Google results is pretty inconclusive, with Motherland having a slight lead. Based on what you've said, Motherland sounds like the way to go, but I'll leave it to those in the know. Ambi 07:39, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

How about "Land of Our Parents" or "(Our) Parents' Land"? If not that, Fatherland seems to have greater credibility. 7SEFIROSU 07:39, 27 2006 (UTC)

Maiden Name

I am wondering whether her maiden name, Hryhyan, is confirmed by any official source. Sashazlv 5 July 2005 18:17 (UTC)

• Google finds only this weblog . Andris July 8, 2005 11:32 (UTC)

Elle cover picture

This image is taken directly from BBC News. Are we really allowed to do that? -- Woseph 10:10:30, 2005-09-10 (UTC)

I quote from the {{magazinecover}} tag, which is used with this image:

This image is of a scan of a magazine cover, and the copyright for it is most likely owned by either the publisher of the magazine or the individual contributors who worked on the cover depicted. It is believed that the use of low-resolution images of magazine covers to illustrate the publication of the issue of the magazine in question, with the publication name either visible on the image itself or written in the image description above, on the English-language Misplaced Pages, hosted on servers in the United States by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation, qualifies as fair use under United States copyright law. Any other uses of this image, on Misplaced Pages or elsewhere, may be copyright infringement. See Copyrights for more information.

--Rogerd 14:16, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I know that we are allowed to display a low-resolution cover picture, but my point was that BBC News scanned the cover, we didn't. For example, if someone photographs an old painting (which isn't copyrighted), we can't use that picture, right? Why is this situation different? -- Woseph 17:18:48, 2005-09-10 (UTC)

I have changed the text underneath the Elle cover picture. The text on the BBC website says that: "In an earlier interview, given in 2001, she was asked whether she would prefer to make the front cover of Playboy, Time or the Ukrainian women's magazine Natalie. Mrs Tymoshenko said Playboy would be "the best choice for any real woman". She added, however, that she might plump for Time instead."

That doesn't express a personal wish to be in playboy... -- --Bgraabek 21:58, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

The language on the cover is Russian; besides, there is no Ukrainian Elle version, as far as I know.

Zondor's picture

Zondor wants to put this picture on the page and, apparently, refuses to discuss it first (and calling me a vandal in the process), despite my, I think, reasonable request that he/she do so. Therefore, I will show him/her how it's done.

Here is the picture Zondor added without discussion:

Any thoughts on whether it should stay or go? I have none, I just think that Zondor needed to give us an opportunity to come to a consensus about it. I think its obvious that some might think its POV to put it in. Poor form, Zondor. Discussion?Gator1 01:22, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

I see nothing POV about the photo (someone please explain what is POV about it), but it is redundant, since there are already two other head shot photos in the article. --Rogerd 01:37, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

I asked an admin to temporarily freeze the article until everyone cools down. Please, provide content, don't engage in edit wars. I understand that the current political crisis in Ukraine makes some people view Tymoshenko as a martyr. But let's wait until the dust settles down. Sashazlv 05:13, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

It is a free photo, but if it is decided to not include the photo in the article, then I suggest to add {{Commons}} so we can have an image gallery of images of the very lovely Tymoshenko. Zach (Sound Off) 05:26, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

:) Just wait until the parliamentary elections in Ukraine enter an active phase. The article will be a battlefield. Sashazlv 05:31, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for stepping in Sasha. For the record, again, I don't have an opinion about this picture or about the Ukraine and am not terribly interested in the current political crises (let alone fired up about it). I just felt Zondor was going about it the wrong way. I removed it once with little comment and when he added it back, and tried to argue, I, assuming good faith, beleived that he just didn't understand what I was trying to say, so I explained it more and removed it again. When he added it back with no comment, I went to the talk page and started this discussion, thinking, if he wasn't going to do then I just would. I had no intention on starting an edit war and it was really over and being dicussed by the timeyou reverted it back (thanks by the way, I wasn't about to do that again). Let's just discuss this and make sure everyone remains civil.Gator1 12:42, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Personally, I see nothing wrong with the picture being in an article. I think it properly reflects T. of the time and she doesn't look bad at all here, to my taste. Tastes differ, though. Cheers, --Irpen 06:07, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

I think she looks exhausted on that picture. After looking through a bunch of pictures (start with Google Image Search also have a look at for changes over time) I don't think it's a representative picture of her. To me, it looks like a typical archive picture a newspaper would use in an article about a setback ("Y.T. fired from government" or whatever). Everyone already know good-looking people can look bad/not as good as usual in some pictures, right? -- Woseph 10:29, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

I really don't get that impression from the image - it's just a decent, though possibly surplus to our needs, headshot, and doesn't make her look bad in the slightest. Ambi 16:44, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

What does she do now?

I'm curious, what does Tymoshenko do now? I assume she's still in politics, since she contested the new PM's appointment, but doing what exactly? I must say, I wonder what Prime Ministers do after they get fired. - 211.28.78.104 11:36, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Just read on-line news and watch TV. Sashazlv 00:05, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Now she is going to win March election and become PM again! And she have good chances. Some of her opponent says that she was bad PM.It is lie! She was super PM. But someone from Yushenko team wasn`t interested in her success. :(. Yulia forever, she is genius. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ukrainemycountry (talk • contribs) 11:35, March 5, 2006 (UTC)

Here we go again...

Someone is changing the picture again. I reverrted adn encouraged him/her to come ehre and disucss it. We went throguht this before. Let's talk about it again. Both images are perfectly legal under copyright law so that's not the issue. yes one is more open thant he otehr, but both are legal, so we just need to choose which one we want. If the image is going to be changed it should be discussed first. I prefer the currrent one. It's a much better picture to be used as the first one people see. Thoughts?Gator (talk) 13:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I think the previous picture that Zondor put online was much nicer, it shows Yulia as a human being, not as a superstar

Picture

I think the Elle picture looks horrible!

Agree, she is painted with make-up there so intensively as if she was a street whoe :((. She never does so in real life, she's a pretty natural-lookig MILF. Shame on Elle!AlexPU 13:11, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Article's structure

Now back to serious Wikibusiness. The political career section is unreadable: the info is loaded here and there without needed chronology or event-analysis distinction. Needs more reshuffling and liberating of excessive details. So I added a "clean-up" template. Lead and "Origins" seem OK.AlexPU 13:11, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Just cleaned up and updated. Thoughts? Matty J 87 23:41, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

AlexPU, the intro is not OK now. I find it overloaded and duplicating the sects. Why don't you take care of it, as a political analyst? Wishes, Ukrained 22:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's OK again :)). I hope.

BTW people, this passage now deleted from the lead is evidently false and POV:

"She was dismissed by President Viktor Yushchenko last September, after only eight months on the job since leading the country’s Orange Revolution. Her coalition was unable to overcome opposition from former Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych," Forbes Magazine said.

If that's so, than Margaret Thatcher's last cabinet "was unable to overcome opposition from the British Communist Party and the International Peace Council" :). You know, Western journalists usually are dumb in post-Soviet politics, and for a good reason: they live in a purely different political system.AlexPU 22:20, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

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