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Revision as of 03:23, 21 February 2007

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OK - there is an obvious problem. This "workshop" is like a steel cage match between the involved parties and other users. I've made most of my suggestions and arguments. Unless the arbitrators and clerks (all "missing in action") can restore some sense of direction, all that we're doing is to intensify the dispute. Rama's arrow 17:55, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Somewhat agreed. The Proposals and comments for endorsement and opposition should be left on the page, and all the irrelevant comments should be moved to an archive page just to keep record. I must admit, I participated in the irrelevant discussions, which seem pointless now, but I believe progress has been made with the current proposals. --Unre4Lﺍﹸﻧﺮﮮﺍﻝ 07:11, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

indeed. this case needs more input by uninvolved/neutral parties, and less escalation between the camps. The problem is that few uninvolved people can be bothered to embark on taking this mess seriously. But both sides should appreciate Rama's arrow's point: if you just keep heaping abuse on each other along party lines, it will not make your side look any better. We get it, you don't like each other. I should add that I wonder what Bakaman's comments are doing under the "uninvolved" headings, there is one stout partisan in the "Indian camp" if I've ever seen one. dab (𒁳) 11:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

This is pointless. For every proposed Pakistani block, the four involved Pakistani users voted oppose, for every proposed Indian block, the four involved Pakistani users endorsed. Is there a pattern? Same pattern goes with Bakaman and a couple of other users, but many Indian users have not endorsed Pakistani-related blocks and have instead only opposed those India-related blocks which seem outrageous. The votes of the involved parties are predictable and clutter up space and this page, which is not meant to be a battleground. — Nobleeagle 06:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

And remember, all of you: it doesn't help your defence to a charge of assault to get into a fist-fight in front of the jury. If I were you, I personally would not want to establish a character of being argumentative in the eyes of ArbCom. David Mestel 07:33, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

A question: Is it legal to go on other users talk pages and ask them to comment on this matter? Unre4Lﺍﹸﻧﺮﮮﺍﻝ 13:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Assuming that when you say illegal, you mean allowed, the answer is yes. However, understand that the ArbCom doesn't usually take nosecounting into account when reaching its decisions, and it will look seriously bad for you if you're seen to recruit people to carry on this fruitless argument on the Workshop page. David Mestel 15:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

You mean like this? . This is just a question, since the nature of that comment doesnt look like he is pursuing Neutral opinions. --Unre4Lﺍﹸﻧﺮﮮﺍﻝ 16:01, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

comment from outsider

I have been watching this RfA for some time, and I must admit that right now /Workshop is a complete mess. I propose that people stop posting material in BOLD as it really really hurts my (and probably others') eyes. We definitely need someone to copy-edit it. Also, On almost everything proposed, the involved parties are arguing each other, needless to say, for no good. If it was ever going to be resolved by arguments, there would have been no RfA. But that's just me :) --æn↓þæµß¶-ŧ-¢(I prefer replying to each other's talk pages.) 02:09, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

It certainly isn't a complete mess - just an obvious battleground. After all, everything said here - constructive and obstructive - will be weighed in the final decision, made by the old, wise men watching quietly yet with omnipresence from the top of the hill. Rama's arrow 02:20, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I still don't get the reason of a workshop. Is it supposed to show the conduct of involved parties? Or is it like a 'last way' to persuade each other? Because all the other workshops that I have seen also have discussions, but they are more like, explaining their own conduct (why I did this, how the accusation is wrong, and of course accusing too), but here it is like, everything /Evidence should have is being listed on /Workshop, just not in the 'templaty' manner. Just look at the number of diffs being listed here.--æn↓þæµß¶-ŧ-¢(I prefer replying to each other's talk pages.) 02:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Good observation - I think its also due to the fact that all the parties are uninitiated in ArbCom cases. Folks here need to realize that this is actually not a court - "arbitators" act as decision-makers but the process is open to all involved/interested. So I guess the workshop lets that happen. Its not like (1) give evidence, (2) receive judgment. Rama's arrow 02:59, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. Does that mean Arbitrators can be "talked into"? :-) Because requiring more than evidence is just that, isn't it? Not suspecting there judgement capability here.--æn↓þæµß¶-ŧ-¢(I prefer replying to each other's talk pages.) 03:22, 21 February 2007 (UTC)