| Revision as of 15:22, 11 August 2022 edit171.23.6.193 (talk) →The article has a distinct lack of mention and content about ethnic cleansing← Previous edit | Revision as of 12:55, 23 August 2022 edit undo171.23.129.34 (talk) →The article has a distinct lack of mention and content about ethnic cleansingNext edit → | ||
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| Ethnic cleansing of Czechs or Sudeten Germans? | Ethnic cleansing of Czechs or Sudeten Germans? | ||
| The conclusions of the Potsdam Conference were confirmed by its signatory states in 1996. The US government, said: "The decisions made at Potsdam ... were soundly based in international law. The conference conclusions have been endorsed many times since in various multilateral and bilateral contexts. ... The conclusions of Potsdam are historical fact and the United States is confident that no country wishes to call them into question". | The conclusions of the Potsdam Conference were confirmed by its signatory states in 1996. The US government, said: "The decisions made at Potsdam ... were soundly based in international law. The conference conclusions have been endorsed many times since in various multilateral and bilateral contexts. ... The conclusions of Potsdam are historical fact and the United States is confident that no country wishes to call them into question". | ||
| The Allied transfer of Sudeten Germans with Nazi-German |
The Allied transfer of Sudeten Germans with Nazi-German citizenship was ultimately justified and for the future good of Europe. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 15:13, 11 August 2022 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | ||
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Euphemisms?
It's interesting how the article uses language almost euphemistically. "Expulsion" is used in place of where "ethnic cleansing" would be appropriate nearly every single time; Contrast with articles dealing with the Armenian Genocide which use "harsher" language more liberally, so to speak. This article has some major issues. User: Dehler 15:04, 14 January 2020
Expulsion is used when transfered people are guilty, ethnic cleansing when transfered people are innocent. The Sudeten Germans Flocked to Hitler - Herrenvolk und Lebensraum. They were guilty.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.15.218.62 (talk) 07:46, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
There is no such thing as collective guilt. It exists only in propaganda and such language displays inhumane thinking. And maybe you should do a little research on the Sudetendeutsche opposision to the Nazis and their fate. --93.203.105.178 (talk) 14:47, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
Supposing there were enough of them remaining.
You should do a little research on the Sudetendeutsche opposision to the Nazis and their fate in Dachau concentration camp and elsewhere during the Nazi-German occupation of the democratic Czechoslovakia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.23.6.193 (talk) 14:52, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
It is claimed that Sudeten Germans expelled from Czechoslovakia were based on the concept of collective guilt. This is not true.
Almost every decree explicitely stated that the sanctions did not apply to anti-fascists.
About 90% of the German population of the Czech borderlands had supported the Nazi and affilation to Nazi-Germany. Some 280 000 Germans in Czechoslovakia remained Czechoslovak citizens after the transfer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.23.6.193 (talk) 15:37, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Internment
This appears in the Intro: "Many German civilians were sent to internment and labour camps where they were used as forced labour as part of German reparations to countries in eastern Europe." It has a ref which I can't easily check, but my real problem is that it doesn't seem to be a summary of anything in the body of the article. Plenty of use of "internment camp", but just not in this context. I want to move it down into the body somewhere rather than simply delete it, but it really needs expansion then. Thoughts? - Snori (talk) 00:44, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
The death toll includes post war internment and labour camp deaths, in fact the German sources estimate 150,000 killed in the fighting and the remainder in the post war expulsion process. Internment and forced labor constituted the bulk of the losses.--Woogie 10w (talk) 00:52, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Please become familiar with the facts, guessing will waste our time--Woogie 10w (talk) 00:53, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
This is a good summary of the figure of 600,000 that is cited by the Deutsches Historisches Museum, Forced labor of Germans in the Soviet Union#German Federal Archive Report. --Woogie 10w (talk) 01:16, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Between 1944 and 1948 about 31 million people
If we mention the population transfers, we should list also non-German nationalities. The context suggests the refugees were all German more or less.Xx236 (talk) 09:34, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
- A very similar flight and expulstion of Italians is called an exodus (Istrian-Dalmatian exodus) and not mentioned in this text.Xx236 (talk) 09:38, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
- This is a good idea. Likebeingawesome (talk) 01:28, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
A road sign
The caption isn't obvious. Reichenbach was Austrian and during WWII German. Danzig was German but a Free City between the wars.Xx236 (talk) 11:01, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
The article has a distinct lack of mention and content about ethnic cleansing
This is an unambiguous case of ethnic cleansing of Germans/German-linked 'undesirables' from large swathes of Europe. The fact the German state of the time was itself a perpetrator of ethnic cleansing shouldn't be used as an excuse to downplay and ignore the obvious in this instance.
I would like to see the accurate description of this episode of ethnic cleansing recognised for what it is, more prominently.
The reasons not to are up there with the same 'rationale' behind downplaying/ignoring other such crimes as the Armenian Genocide, or ironically enough the Holocaust. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:A005:CA01:91DC:F403:2870:8A9C (talk) 13:02, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
- If you have a reliable source that these events were ethnic cleansing as opposed to expulsion please edit the article accordingly. Independent reliable sources that are explicit will be required.
- It meets the definition for ethnic cleansing perfectly, a group of "undesirable" people were removed from a place where they had lived for centuries. Using your logic someone should just put the dictionary definition of ethnic cleansing in the article. The rest of the contents will provide all the proof needed. Likebeingawesome (talk) 01:27, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
Britmax (talk) 15:10, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
- It's a different term for the same thing - "expulsion" is fine.50.111.51.247 (talk) 21:56, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
- The general consensus is that the expulsions were regrettable, tragic and often mishandled - yet ultimately justified and for the future good of Europe.2A00:23C4:3E08:4000:E43A:5394:ED49:F1FA (talk) 20:54, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
- Please restrain yourself from posting such rubbish - especially without a claim to a Reliable Source (you won't find one) on the issue. 50.111.51.247 (talk) 21:54, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
- There is not such general consensus.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:10, 19 January 2021 (UTC))
- They were absolutely unjustified. Likebeingawesome (talk) 01:27, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
- The general consensus is that the expulsions were regrettable, tragic and often mishandled - yet ultimately justified and for the future good of Europe.2A00:23C4:3E08:4000:E43A:5394:ED49:F1FA (talk) 20:54, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
It was ethnic cleansing through and through. It's a good example of the old adage "it's not a war crime if you win". SouthernResidentOrca (talk) 05:52, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
Ethnic cleansing of Czechs or Sudeten Germans? The conclusions of the Potsdam Conference were confirmed by its signatory states in 1996. The US government, said: "The decisions made at Potsdam ... were soundly based in international law. The conference conclusions have been endorsed many times since in various multilateral and bilateral contexts. ... The conclusions of Potsdam are historical fact and the United States is confident that no country wishes to call them into question". The Allied transfer of Sudeten Germans with Nazi-German citizenship was ultimately justified and for the future good of Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.23.6.193 (talk) 15:13, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
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