Misplaced Pages:Requests for permissions/Rollback: Difference between revisions

< Misplaced Pages:Requests for permissions Browse history interactively ← Previous edit Next edit →Content deleted Content addedVisual WikitextInline

Revision as of 06:51, 5 November 2022 view sourceSwarm (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators32,772 edits →User:Cosmic6811: ReplyTag: Reply ← Previous edit		Revision as of 18:54, 5 November 2022 view source Swarm (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators32,772 edits →User:Cosmic6811: collapse extended contentNext edit →
Line 22:		Line 22:
	::::That is a good point and I will now try to always leave an edit summary when undoing an edit. I guess it seemed clear to me but it may not be for the people who made those edits themselves. -- <u>]</u> (]) 20:18, 3 November 2022 (UTC)		::::That is a good point and I will now try to always leave an edit summary when undoing an edit. I guess it seemed clear to me but it may not be for the people who made those edits themselves. -- <u>]</u> (]) 20:18, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
	:::::Based on the discussion above, I'm going to recommend that you spend some time to familiarize yourself with the difference between ] edits and ]. If you find yourself reverting ] edits, then it's ''especially'' important to notify the editor; I recommend using tools such as ] or ] which make this very easy. If you don't want to leave a template ], that's completely fine, but you do need to leave a talk page message explaining why you reverted the edit. I think you're on the right track, but I'd like to see you get some more experience patrolling recent changes before granting you this right. As such, closing as {{Not done}}. Please feel free to reapply in a few weeks. Thanks, ] 23:59, 3 November 2022 (UTC)		:::::Based on the discussion above, I'm going to recommend that you spend some time to familiarize yourself with the difference between ] edits and ]. If you find yourself reverting ] edits, then it's ''especially'' important to notify the editor; I recommend using tools such as ] or ] which make this very easy. If you don't want to leave a template ], that's completely fine, but you do need to leave a talk page message explaining why you reverted the edit. I think you're on the right track, but I'd like to see you get some more experience patrolling recent changes before granting you this right. As such, closing as {{Not done}}. Please feel free to reapply in a few weeks. Thanks, ] 23:59, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
			{{collapse top}}
	::::::I am already familiar with the differences between good faith and vandalism. I am already using both Twinkle and RedWarn and I do leave talk page messages. If you look through my contributions hard enough, you'll find that I do often notify users when I revert their edits. Here are some examples that I found: ], ], ], ], ], ], ]		::::::I am already familiar with the differences between good faith and vandalism. I am already using both Twinkle and RedWarn and I do leave talk page messages. If you look through my contributions hard enough, you'll find that I do often notify users when I revert their edits. Here are some examples that I found: ], ], ], ], ], ], ]
	-- <u>]</u> (]) 01:09, 4 November 2022 (UTC)		-- <u>]</u> (]) 01:09, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
Line 42:		Line 43:
	:::::::::I don't have a problem with the way others are using rollback. However, if I request rollback and get declined for an issue that others who have rollback also have, I do wonder how they got rollback because I just wonder these things that's all. -- <u>]</u> (]) 06:25, 5 November 2022 (UTC)		:::::::::I don't have a problem with the way others are using rollback. However, if I request rollback and get declined for an issue that others who have rollback also have, I do wonder how they got rollback because I just wonder these things that's all. -- <u>]</u> (]) 06:25, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
	::::::::::{{tq\|And what if i've found in your contributions log that you've missed leaving a message after a revert?}} — this is tendentious whataboutism, but if you found such a revert in my contribs there would be a perfectly justifiable policy explanation behind it, of that I have no doubt. I am literally an anti-vandalism worker who was promoted to admin and I never had a problem leaving the standardized notifications. ] <sup>]</sup> 06:51, 5 November 2022 (UTC)		::::::::::{{tq\|And what if i've found in your contributions log that you've missed leaving a message after a revert?}} — this is tendentious whataboutism, but if you found such a revert in my contribs there would be a perfectly justifiable policy explanation behind it, of that I have no doubt. I am literally an anti-vandalism worker who was promoted to admin and I never had a problem leaving the standardized notifications. ] <sup>]</sup> 06:51, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
			{{collapse bottom}}

Revision as of 18:54, 5 November 2022

Place to request rollback rights

Requests for permissions
Common	Autopatrolled AutoWikiBrowser New page reviewer Page mover Pending changes reviewer Rollback
Uncommon	Account creator Confirmed Event coordinator Extended confirmed File mover Mass message sender Template editor
Logs	Archived requests Approved requests Denied requests System rights log
Special	Administrator Bot Bureaucrat CheckUser and Oversight Edit filter helper Edit filter manager Interface administrator

Rollback

Sorry, unregistered users cannot be granted permissions due to technical restrictions. Please create an account in order to request user account permissions. (add request · view requests) Shortcuts

Please review Misplaced Pages:Rollback before making a request. Applicants with fewer than 200 mainspace edits are unlikely to be granted this right. More importantly, applicants must have a measurable track record of counter-vandalism and no recent history of edit warring. The counter-vandalism training program is available if you wish to gain experience in handling vandalism.

User:Everm4e

Everm4e (t · th · c · del · cross-wiki · SUL · edit counter · pages created (xtools · sigma) · non-automated edits · BLP edits · undos · manual reverts · rollbacks · logs · rfar · spi · cci) (assign permissions)

Hello! I've been combatting vandalism and disruptive editing on Misplaced Pages's music related pages for a couple of years now and figured that rollback rights would facilitate that significantly. I'm familiar with the use of RedWarn also. Everm4e (talk) 04:00, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Not done I reviewed your contributions and found little to no recent anti-vandalism work. If you're still interested in this tool then please spend at least a month actively patrolling RecentChanges (Twinkle & RedWarn can help with that) before reapplying. Also, please start warning editors when you revert their edits. Thanks, FASTILY 06:38, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

User:Cosmic6811

Cosmic6811 (t · th · c · del · cross-wiki · SUL · edit counter · pages created (xtools · sigma) · non-automated edits · BLP edits · undos · manual reverts · rollbacks · logs · rfar · spi · cci) (assign permissions)

I've been fighting against vandalism for a few months. I first came to this page after a week of fighting vandalism but saw people turned down due to lack of time and decided to come back later. I now have gained a lot more experience. I've mainly been using RedWarn and also have twinkle to revert edits I find using the edit filter log. I wish for the Rollback rights so that I can use the Huggle tool to better combat vandalism. -- Cosmic (talk) 06:04, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

I noticed that you're not always warning editors when you revert their edits (e.g. 1, 2, 3, 4). Could you please comment on that? Thanks, FASTILY 06:38, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

|Is it always necessary to warn? I've come across editors such as Felida97 who don't make use of them if "it's only a one-time issue/single problematic edit". For the examples you gave, 1, 3, and 4 I did not warn because I was not reverting vandalism and was rather merely undoing edits. When reverting vandalism I do usually warn but I do not think that those times count as reverting vandalism. For 2, it's the same thing and I also included an edit summary explaining the revert. For all of these examples you give, I did not think it was necessary to give a warning because I was not reverting vandalism. -- Cosmic (talk) 18:59, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Coincidentally, I today came across WP:WARNVAND, where it says users should be warned for each and every instance of vandalism, so I guess my mentioned stance/practice has not been right. If I had I seen that sentence earlier (though I'm sure I had read that page a long time ago), I would obviously not have made that my practice. Sorry for causing any confusion, Cosmic. (Not really relevant anymore, but my rationale used to be that (a) I didn't want to wrongly encourage one-time vandals to continue and (b) I could still go straight to level 2 warnings without losing anything with regards to necessary warnings for admin intervention, if they did make another vandalous edit.) Felida (talk) 19:20, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Just my two cents, but I agree that these edits are not straight-up vandalism. However, that then raises the question why you didn't leave an edit summary to explain the revert of edits where the reason for reverting is not absolutely clear. Felida (talk) 19:36, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

That is a good point and I will now try to always leave an edit summary when undoing an edit. I guess it seemed clear to me but it may not be for the people who made those edits themselves. -- Cosmic (talk) 20:18, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Based on the discussion above, I'm going to recommend that you spend some time to familiarize yourself with the difference between good faith edits and vandalism. If you find yourself reverting good faith edits, then it's especially important to notify the editor; I recommend using tools such as Twinkle or RedWarn which make this very easy. If you don't want to leave a template warning, that's completely fine, but you do need to leave a talk page message explaining why you reverted the edit. I think you're on the right track, but I'd like to see you get some more experience patrolling recent changes before granting you this right. As such, closing as

Not done. Please feel free to reapply in a few weeks. Thanks, FASTILY 23:59, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Extended content
I am already familiar with the differences between good faith and vandalism. I am already using both Twinkle and RedWarn and I do leave talk page messages. If you look through my contributions hard enough, you'll find that I do often notify users when I revert their edits. Here are some examples that I found: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 -- Cosmic (talk) 01:09, 4 November 2022 (UTC) Well, you only started warning editors as I took a look through your contributions, so, as Fastily stated, feel free to reapply in a few weeks. Thank you. Sarrail (talk) 18:20, 4 November 2022 (UTC) What do you mean by "Well, you only started warning editors as I took a look through your contributions"? I don't understand. -- Cosmic (talk) 18:54, 4 November 2022 (UTC) As far as I can tell, you’ve only started yesterday. If you really want the Rollback permission, you will probably do more than the amount of edits you have done today. Good work so far though. Sarrail (talk) 19:49, 4 November 2022 (UTC) What do you mean i've only started yesterday? I've been doing this for almost half a year! -- Cosmic (talk) 22:46, 4 November 2022 (UTC) WARNING editors. Yes, you have reverted vandalism from editors/IPs for quite a while, and now you are starting to warn them using twinkle. And that's one of the steps taken to apply for rollback, so that means you are making some progress. For more info/training, please see WP:CVU. Sarrail (talk) 23:57, 4 November 2022 (UTC) Could you please look through my contributions again because I am really confused. I've been giving warnings since I started fighting vandalism which was quite a while ago. -- Cosmic (talk) 23:18, 4 November 2022 (UTC) Leaving the templated warnings is a basic expectation. If there is evidence of you not doing it, your request is going to be a non-starter. We acknowledge that this is an easy fix and not a major hurdle to get over, but you will have to jump through the hoop of demonstrating it before you submit a new request, that is just the standard we have always used. We simply don’t grant rights in exchange for promises that identified issues will be resolved. ~Swarm~ 20:05, 4 November 2022 (UTC) How am I supposed to leave a templated warning if there is no template? I am really confused right now. -- Cosmic (talk) 22:47, 4 November 2022 (UTC) Did you even read the entire above conversation? Because from what you said in your comment, I don't think you have. -- Cosmic (talk) 23:09, 4 November 2022 (UTC) Yeah, I followed the conversation, did you? These are simple concepts. I’m not sure what you mean by “there is no template”, I’ve never encountered that situation, but as Fastily said, if you’re not leaving a templated message, you must leave a handwritten message. Strictly speaking it is not something that is mandated on editors, but it is a basic expectation that recent changes patrollers, and certainly Rollbackers, are working under and upholding our longstanding standardized system without fail. This is required to satisfy the communication requirements mandated by policy. All I am saying is that Fastily’s denial here is nothing short of routine, and you’re coming across as a bit unreasonable. ~Swarm~ 01:10, 5 November 2022 (UTC) So you're saying that you've left a templated message for every single undo you ever made even if it wasn't reverting vandalism? And I am not coming across as unreasonable. I think you and all these people whom replied to me are "unreasonable". First of all, Sarrail accuses me of only starting to warn editors yesterday when the first warn I ever made was the first time I reverted vandalism. On May 16th. I ask you how May 16th is yesterday. And ever since then, I have been giving warns when reverting vandalism. If you don't believe me, take a look at the edit history of this page. You can clearly see me giving a warning 6 months ago. I could hardly have started giving warnings yesterday if I have been consistently doing so for 6 months. And then you imply that I don't leave warnings. I make sure to leave a warning whenever applicable and have left warnings for every vandalism revert unless it was unneeded (for example the account already being blocked). I have given handwritten notices countless times, which you would know if you read my earlier message up above as I gave plenty of examples. And now, you say I am being unreasonable. I am not failing, or refusing to get the point. I completely understand what Fastily said. I was merely explaining that I do in fact notify users and that the examples they found are only a fraction of all my edits. If anybody has been unreasonable, It is the people reviewing my request and not myself. -- Cosmic (talk) 02:49, 5 November 2022 (UTC) So you're saying that you've left a templated message for every single undo you ever made even if it wasn't reverting vandalism? — yes lol. When I was a recent changes patroller, I understood that that was the standard, and it is still the standard to this day. I’m not sure where you’re getting this idea that it’s ever okay not to leave a message when you revert someone, but that itself is precisely the issue. We’re not being unreasonable, we’re just saying that’s the part of the standards for obtaining this user right. ~Swarm~ 04:33, 5 November 2022 (UTC) And what if i've found in your contributions log that you've missed leaving a message after a revert? What would you say then? Also I never said that it's ever okay to not leave a message when reverting someone. By the way, if not leaving templated warnings means that somebody can't become a rollbacker, then why is Felida97 one? And you can't tell me "We simply don’t grant rights in exchange for promises that identified issues will be resolved" and allow Felida to be a rollbacker if they only since yesterday began always leaving a warning. Also, just so you know I am not disputing the choice to for a Not Done. I acknowledge the fact that I am not getting rollback permissions in this case and accept that. ~~However, I am and still will argue against your and others' points if I feel that they are incorrect or if I have a valid debate.~~ -- Cosmic (talk) 05:50, 5 November 2022 (UTC) Actually never mind what I just said. FASTILY just sent me a message telling me to stop but if you are willing to give me an answer to my last comment, please do leave a message on my talk page because I would like to hear it. -- Cosmic (talk) 06:01, 5 November 2022 (UTC) Do you always have to have the last word? In case it wasn't obvious, this thread is for evaluating your suitability for rollback, and not anybody else's. If you have a problem with the way others are using rollback, then go nuts at WP:ANI. Otherwise, drop it, because your behavior in this thread is obnoxious and borderline disruptive. Also, noting for the record that I've posted the following warning on OP's talk page. -FASTILY 06:09, 5 November 2022 (UTC) I don't have a problem with the way others are using rollback. However, if I request rollback and get declined for an issue that others who have rollback also have, I do wonder how they got rollback because I just wonder these things that's all. -- Cosmic (talk) 06:25, 5 November 2022 (UTC) And what if i've found in your contributions log that you've missed leaving a message after a revert? — this is tendentious whataboutism, but if you found such a revert in my contribs there would be a perfectly justifiable policy explanation behind it, of that I have no doubt. I am literally an anti-vandalism worker who was promoted to admin and I never had a problem leaving the standardized notifications. ~Swarm~ 06:51, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Extended content

I am already familiar with the differences between good faith and vandalism. I am already using both Twinkle and RedWarn and I do leave talk page messages. If you look through my contributions hard enough, you'll find that I do often notify users when I revert their edits. Here are some examples that I found: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

-- Cosmic (talk) 01:09, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Well, you only started warning editors as I took a look through your contributions, so, as Fastily stated, feel free to reapply in a few weeks. Thank you. Sarrail (talk) 18:20, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

What do you mean by "Well, you only started warning editors as I took a look through your contributions"? I don't understand. -- Cosmic (talk) 18:54, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, you’ve only started yesterday. If you really want the Rollback permission, you will probably do more than the amount of edits you have done today. Good work so far though. Sarrail (talk) 19:49, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

What do you mean i've only started yesterday? I've been doing this for almost half a year! -- Cosmic (talk) 22:46, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

WARNING editors. Yes, you have reverted vandalism from editors/IPs for quite a while, and now you are starting to warn them using twinkle. And that's one of the steps taken to apply for rollback, so that means you are making some progress. For more info/training, please see WP:CVU. Sarrail (talk) 23:57, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Could you please look through my contributions again because I am really confused. I've been giving warnings since I started fighting vandalism which was quite a while ago. -- Cosmic (talk) 23:18, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Leaving the templated warnings is a basic expectation. If there is evidence of you not doing it, your request is going to be a non-starter. We acknowledge that this is an easy fix and not a major hurdle to get over, but you will have to jump through the hoop of demonstrating it before you submit a new request, that is just the standard we have always used. We simply don’t grant rights in exchange for promises that identified issues will be resolved. ~Swarm~ 20:05, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

How am I supposed to leave a templated warning if there is no template? I am really confused right now. -- Cosmic (talk) 22:47, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Did you even read the entire above conversation? Because from what you said in your comment, I don't think you have. -- Cosmic (talk) 23:09, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I followed the conversation, did you? These are simple concepts. I’m not sure what you mean by “there is no template”, I’ve never encountered that situation, but as Fastily said, if you’re not leaving a templated message, you must leave a handwritten message. Strictly speaking it is not something that is mandated on editors, but it is a basic expectation that recent changes patrollers, and certainly Rollbackers, are working under and upholding our longstanding standardized system without fail. This is required to satisfy the communication requirements mandated by policy. All I am saying is that Fastily’s denial here is nothing short of routine, and you’re coming across as a bit unreasonable. ~Swarm~ 01:10, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

So you're saying that you've left a templated message for every single undo you ever made even if it wasn't reverting vandalism? And I am not coming across as unreasonable. I think you and all these people whom replied to me are "unreasonable". First of all, Sarrail accuses me of only starting to warn editors yesterday when the first warn I ever made was the first time I reverted vandalism. On May 16th. I ask you how May 16th is yesterday. And ever since then, I have been giving warns when reverting vandalism. If you don't believe me, take a look at the edit history of this page. You can clearly see me giving a warning 6 months ago. I could hardly have started giving warnings yesterday if I have been consistently doing so for 6 months. And then you imply that I don't leave warnings. I make sure to leave a warning whenever applicable and have left warnings for every vandalism revert unless it was unneeded (for example the account already being blocked). I have given handwritten notices countless times, which you would know if you read my earlier message up above as I gave plenty of examples. And now, you say I am being unreasonable. I am not failing, or refusing to get the point. I completely understand what Fastily said. I was merely explaining that I do in fact notify users and that the examples they found are only a fraction of all my edits. If anybody has been unreasonable, It is the people reviewing my request and not myself. -- Cosmic (talk) 02:49, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

So you're saying that you've left a templated message for every single undo you ever made even if it wasn't reverting vandalism? — yes lol. When I was a recent changes patroller, I understood that that was the standard, and it is still the standard to this day. I’m not sure where you’re getting this idea that it’s ever okay not to leave a message when you revert someone, but that itself is precisely the issue. We’re not being unreasonable, we’re just saying that’s the part of the standards for obtaining this user right. ~Swarm~ 04:33, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

And what if i've found in your contributions log that you've missed leaving a message after a revert? What would you say then? Also I never said that it's ever okay to not leave a message when reverting someone. By the way, if not leaving templated warnings means that somebody can't become a rollbacker, then why is Felida97 one? And you can't tell me "We simply don’t grant rights in exchange for promises that identified issues will be resolved" and allow Felida to be a rollbacker if they only since yesterday began always leaving a warning. Also, just so you know I am not disputing the choice to for a Not Done. I acknowledge the fact that I am not getting rollback permissions in this case and accept that. ~~However, I am and still will argue against your and others' points if I feel that they are incorrect or if I have a valid debate.~~ -- Cosmic (talk) 05:50, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Actually never mind what I just said. FASTILY just sent me a message telling me to stop but if you are willing to give me an answer to my last comment, please do leave a message on my talk page because I would like to hear it. -- Cosmic (talk) 06:01, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Do you always have to have the last word? In case it wasn't obvious, this thread is for evaluating *your* suitability for rollback, and not anybody else's. If you have a problem with the way others are using rollback, then go nuts at WP:ANI. Otherwise, drop it, because your behavior in this thread is obnoxious and borderline disruptive. Also, noting for the record that I've posted the following warning on OP's talk page. -FASTILY 06:09, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with the way others are using rollback. However, if I request rollback and get declined for an issue that others who have rollback also have, I do wonder how they got rollback because I just wonder these things that's all. -- Cosmic (talk) 06:25, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

And what if i've found in your contributions log that you've missed leaving a message after a revert? — this is tendentious whataboutism, but if you found such a revert in my contribs there would be a perfectly justifiable policy explanation behind it, of that I have no doubt. I am literally an anti-vandalism worker who was promoted to admin and I never had a problem leaving the standardized notifications. ~Swarm~ 06:51, 5 November 2022 (UTC)