Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 16:15, 6 March 2007

(User talk:Mattisse/Archive_9) - (User talk:Mattisse/Archive_11)

Thanks for your message on my talk page

Not much to say apart from, aw shucks. --Salix alba (talk) 10:11, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Swayambhu

Hi Mattisse, there are some mistakes in recent edits to Swayambhu . Only some murthis are considered swayambhu, not all. You have written:

The Hindu murthis are considered to be self-manifestations of the deity.

which is only true in some cases. Also, shivalingas in temples are made by humans. Exceptions to this generalization are the shivalinga at Amarnath and Mount Kailash which is considered by some to be the shape of a shivalinga. Sorry to bother you about this. --BostonMA 20:42, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Mattisse, Sorry I was not able to respond earlier. I was called away. I see that you removed the statement:

The Hindu murthis are considered to be self-manifestations of the deity.

It would be good if the article stated that some murthis are considered to be Swayambhu. For example it could say:

Some Hindu murthis are considered to be self-manifestations of the deity. For example, the following eight murthis are considered to be Swayambhu. (followed by list).

Sorry again to bother you. Would you like me to change it? --BostonMA 21:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

No problem

Though I was afraid we might hit an edit conflict (the technical kind, not the edit warring kind). Thanks for removing the duplicate see also, I didn't notice that Chorten redirected to Stupa. Kinda stupa of me. :-) A Ramachandran 03:40, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I first met him back in the late 80s/early 90s. He used to come to Taos for events at the Neem Karoli Baba ashram there. A Ramachandran 14:00, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry harassment

Just to let you know, I've modified WP:SOCK in an attempt to prevent future abuses of the sockpuppeteer tags such as happened to you. Specificly, I added this language. Since I suspect there may be resistance to this change, I also started a thread on the talk page, here. I thought you might want to be aware, keep an eye on the discussion, and perhaps chime in about your experience if there is pressure to remove the new language. Jefferson Anderson 17:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

(copied my reply}

Hi Jefferson, thanks for doing what you are. It's hopeless for my case but maybe it will help others in the future. I would help you out on your discussion thread but I'm not good at that sort of thing and can't even follow my own Arbitration case. But I'm glad that you are addressing the need to clarify sockpuppet guidlines/policies.

I don't know if this is your area, but I have been trying to find documentation of my sockpuppets and cannot find most of it. Also, I've noticed that many other user accounts are labelled as sockpuppets, or suspected sockpuppets, without any explanation of why or what the evidence is. Do you think that the tag itself should have a link to the evidence? It would be so helpful if it did. Anyway, thanks so much for your efforts. Sincerely, --Mattisse 18:18, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's not really my area, but I can make the following comments... I became aware of the arbitration when BostonMA notified me that I had been mentioned in it, so I know where to find the info... There are two ways a user can be identified as a sock:

1. Through the formal reporting process at Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets. This allows any user who suspect sockpuppetry to tag both suspected sockpuppet and sockpuppeteer and file a report. This seldom works well, the suspect gets upset and even the admins aren't familiar with the process!
2. Through filing a request for checkuser at WP:RFCU.

In the first case, a judgment call is made by one or more admins. Someone can be confirmed a sock in obvious cases such as during an edit war where one user has just been blocked for 3RR and suddenly a brand-new user revert to the same version. If there is evidence that the user knows about 3RR, then three reverts followed by a revert from a brand-new user would be positive evidence as well. This method is based completely on a judgment call and could conceivably be abused by an opponent, who could create the user and have it do what their opponent would be expected to do to make it look like the other party has used a sock.

In the second case, a admins with checkuser permission checks the IP addresses of the users. If they match, this is conclusive evidence that the users are using the same computer and are almost certainly the same person. There are very few admins with checkuser permission and they are very highly respected. Usually they are or have been on the arbitration committee or some other exalted position.

So, your sockpuppets fall into three categories...

1. Five discovered in Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Listerin: Listerin, Capit, Teek, Massmato and Trunk
2. Ten discovered by Rdsmith4 using checkuser, apparently while investigating a case involving one of them. Here is his report, which lists: NLOleson, GBYork, Flinders, NothingMuch, AwfulMe, Pygmalian, Dattat, Gjeatman, ABSmyth, and AgastNeey. Since Rdsmith4 has checkuser permission he is highly respected so even though there was no formal checkuser request about you specificly, the result is absolutely certain. Those users were editing from your computer. I think Rdsmith4 should have recorded his findings in the sockpuppet case as well as notify you, but he didn't.
3. Three further sockpuppets were suspected and blocked via two suspected sockpuppet reports, Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Mattisse and Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Mattisse (2nd). They were identified because their behavior matched the behavior of your main account or of one of the sockpuppets already confirmed as you. These were: LiftWaffen, BlackHak and LymphToad. Since these were not confirmed with checkuser, it is possible that they were created by an opponent and made to look like they belonged to you.

I hope this helps. In case you are wondering how to research these things, what I did was go the your own personal sockpuppet category, Category:Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Mattisse, then click through to one of the sockpuppets, then click on "What links here" to find the corresponding report. The message on your talk page from Rdsmith was hard to find, I had to find a link to it from elsewhere (there are several, including at least one on the arbitration pages).

Hope this helps... Jefferson Anderson 18:58, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

(copied my reply)

Thanks for your message. Unfortuately, that much I knew as I did spend quite a bit of time trying to get answers and trying to figure things out. But without a formal report, I can never be sure. Plus the sockpuppet labelling is inconsistent on the accounts, and one, Dattat, was labelled because of one edit connected to Shrank and at least one other, Liftwaffen, did not make any edits that violated policy. But, to tell you the truth I don't care anymore. I see the whole sockpuppet business as highly corrupt and misused, a game some people like to play, and I don't see that changing. I've lost interest in my own sockpuppet issues as it is all tied up in mystery. But the more power to users like you who have faith in a better Misplaced Pages and are willing to work toward it. Thanks for your good efforts. Sincerely, --Mattisse 19:21, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I disagree with you about Dattat. It was labelled as a suspect based on a suspicion that it was a sockpuppet of Shravak. It was relabelled by Netsnipe as your sockpuppet as confirmed by Rdsmith4's checkuser. There is no conflict here: the user who reported Dattat, 999 apparently had no idea that it was your sockpuppet, but thought it was a sockpuppet of Shravak as it appeared just after Shravak's 4th revert.

Also, if you had found all that out, you are not quite the amateur you say you are. Modesty, I guess, eh? I don't know how to find out anything more about it myself... Jefferson Anderson 19:30, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

(copied my reply)

I apologise if I said something to offend you. I don't think I said I was an amateur. I have spent many months trying to figure this out. But in any event, I don't want to argue about this with you. As I said, I don't care anymore and I applaud you for for you efforts to improve. Again, I apologise for offending you. Sincerely, --Mattisse 19:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

(copying my reply from below which you apparently ignored)

Oh, no, you didn't offend me all at. I was complimenting you for having found out as much as you did!

And since you don't wish to discuss it further, ciao for now... Jefferson Anderson 19:46, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

NOW you've offended me with your last edit comment. Paranoid much? Jefferson Anderson 19:55, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

• jA posts his Rude editors list on his user pag

{copy of my reply}

-- I deeply apologise to you for offending you once again - please do not post on my talk page again - thank you --

I made assumptions than I should not have. I apologise once again. Sincerely, --Mattisse 22:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

• JS puts Mattisse sockpuppet on his user page

hoysala architecture

Your format suggestion looks good. The real picture emerges only after we change the format though. I will try to do it this weekend after finishing with Vijayanagara Empire. If you have time now go ahead and simply cut and paste into the format you indicated, then we can see how it feels. But logically the format you indicated is ok. thanks.Dineshkannambadi 18:48, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

(copied from my message to Dinesh)

--Hoysala Architecture article structure --

Just a suggestion for a change in structure to something like this:

Introduction

1)Deities

• Dedication
• Depiction

2)Basic elements

• Jagati
• Mandapa
• Vimana
• Pillars
• Sculpture

3}Other information

• Famous architects
• Famous temples
• Research notes

No offence

Oh, no, you didn't offend me all at. I was complimenting you for having found out as much as you did!

And since you don't wish to discuss it further, ciao for now... Jefferson Anderson 19:46, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

NOW you've offended me with your last edit comment. Paranoid much? Jefferson Anderson 19:55, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Then I apologise once again for having offended you. I admit I am paranoid. In my experience at Misplaced Pages there are only three people who amass material about the subject as you did in one of your last messages. I admit that because the wording was so familiar, it triggered fear reaction in me. I am sorry and apologise for any faulty response that hurt you. Sincerely, --Mattisse 20:07, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Really, I took some time to track that down at your request! I hardly had it at my fingertips. I spend at least half-an-hour following those links to help you out and then you accuse me of being angry. I don't see in my messages to you how you possible could have come to that conclusion. I'll remember not to try to help anybody out here again, especially not someone who has used 15 confirmed sockpuppets! Jefferson Anderson 20:13, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I corrected a mistake in the deity section. With regards to the Hindu Pantheon, we need to be careful as small changes to wording could result in large changes to the context, not your fault though. But the other sections are not so sensitive to wording.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 22:27, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Apology accepted

Sorry I wasn't able to respond right away. I thought it better to log out for a couple hours as I was quite upset. I knew I would calm down and responding immediately would probably only make matters worse.... so took some time off before responding.

I wish you good luck with the arbitration and all. I don't really understand it or how I came to be mentioned in it. People involved in it seem to be suspicious of everybody, I guess. :-( Jefferson Anderson 22:44, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and please accept my apology in return, including apologizing for posting on your talk page one more time to do so. My response was not as gracious as it could have been, and that is my fault, not yours. I will not post on your talk page again after this unless you invite me to... Jefferson Anderson 22:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Vijayanagara Empire-->I have completde the ECONOMY section.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 01:36, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I am old fashioned. I mostly write it on a sheets of paper first reading from different sources, convince myself it is fairly close to what I read and then type in into wikiedia. Maybe a text editor is better.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 02:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

If we can finish copy edit by early/mid next week, by which time we can finalise on images to add/remove, then we could move this for FA review.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 02:42, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

In the background I will work on the secular structures in the architecture page. I have some nice closeup images.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 02:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Seems like the first four sections still need condensation. I shall go through it this weekend. I will also take a look at my albums to find appropriate images.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 02:53, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to hear you lost your edits. My fault. I shall make one or two minor edits and layoff so you can continue. give me 2 minutes.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 18:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes we need to summarize and reduce History, Economy, Administration and Social life by 10-20%. This should not be too difficult. I will take a closer look tommorow.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 01:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Rift valleys

Hello Mattisse. I made a couple of changes to Rift Valley and one to Great Rift Valley, including a deletion in each. I have now reviewed the history and it appears that my changes are to your recent additions. Let me know if you disagree with my edits and we can discuss them. Thank you. Kablammo 01:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I readded the World Heritage site link to Lake Baikal in Rift Valley. I had deleted the Baikal link in Great Rift Valley as I thought it was too far afield. Thanks for the note. Kablammo 02:08, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

About Bhattiprolu

This is about your change in http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Bhattiprolu&diff=68376964&oldid=68376330#_note-0 and citation. Can you comment on article disccussion page? Mlpkr 12:53, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

No, please continue improving the Indian articles. That helps a lot. Those are exceptional cases. Mlpkr 17:25, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I took a look at Vijayanagara empire article. Its no going to be easy to eliminate too much stuff as they all seem important, unless we decide to simply remove chunks of ECONOMY, ADMIN and SOCIAL life. Maybe I should simply move to FA review and see what they say. We can start deciding on images in the mean time.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 17:44, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you!

Your comment at the proposed CR Mediation was insightful, well-written, and very helpful. I greatly appreciate your taking the time to help clarify the situation. Thanks again, ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 20:39, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Lets leave the LEAD alone for now untill the FA review. I have taken care of your dashed lines in GOVERNANCE though.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 21:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Carnatic music

Hi Mattisse. Please see this. User:Ncmvocalist is repetedly reverting/removing citation needed templates from the article. I think it was you who first inserted these (correctly IMO) in the article. The article desparately needs some reliable references. Your attention will be much appreciated. Thanks Parthi 02:11, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. This article has a long history of conflicts. There are a couple of active editors who have strong opinions of how the article should be and have effectively sidelined most other editors from it, by IMO unfriendly behaviour. This particluar user simply will not listen to a second POV. I don't think I can communicate with him. However the article does need citations, and this user seems to have some knowledge on the subject. I was wondering whether you could persuade him to include some reliable references in the article. Thanks Parthi 02:29, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

For your efforts

|The Resilient Barnstar |{{subst:The Resilient Barnstar|For your character and openmindednessDineshkannambadi 03:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC)}} |The Resilient Barnstar

The empire declined due to weak rulers. That sentence was there but I may have removed it as the details exists in the Kings infobox. I though it may be unnecessary.What do you think?Dineshkannambadi 17:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Please look at the FAC discussion page. user Nichalp has come up with a list of suggestions that needs to be taken care of. While I shall attend to this tonight, If you have time, take care of some and let me know which have been resolved.thanksDineshkannambadi 18:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I can find a few sentences to put in the Nuniz page.Also try to find American English spellings that may have crept in. I believe they prefer English English spellings. thanks.Dineshkannambadi 18:11, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Why did you put so many red links in the Vijayanagara article. The more links we put the more stub pages we are expected to create.Many of them may not have been required.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 19:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, we will have to create some stubs, no choice there.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 20:24, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Goudas = bureaucrats? No. they are rich feudal landlords who had many powers granted at the lower levels by kings and chieftains.thanksDineshkannambadi 21:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Main action items. a)get the SVG kind of infobox with correct map of territories.b)create stubs for redlinks c)clean up on stubby sentences d)make sure all wikilinks go to the correct intended articles.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 21:39, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Mettur Dam

Hi Mattisse,

Sorry about the late reply regarding your question regarding the photo of the Mettur dam/Stanley reservoir. The grey strip on the top right is the reservoir. The reservoir has two hydro eclectic power projects, one built by the british around 1930 while the dam is built. the image does not show the original power plant as it is hidden by the foliage. this plant had 4 generators capable of 10 M.W each. the newer, which is partly visible in the lower right is built with the help of soviet union. it contains 4 generators capable of 40 M.V each.

Mettur dam is the only exiting superstructure which is built using 100% granite. My dad was an electrical engineer in the older British era hydro electric power plant and we used to spend our summers there. we used to climb the steep stairways that lead to the top of the dam (the curved white lines on the dam surface).

Let me know if you need more info about mettur dam.

Vvenka1 22:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Vijayanagara Empire-->We need to watch out for too much of linking. Some reviewers dont like it, even if they are high value links. So at some point we need to remove low value links.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 01:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Thank you for your interest

As you may not already know, despite the fact I've made it clear on the article's talk page, I've already been putting efforts in my spare time to make this a quality article. Unlike what was suggested earlier on this very page by an unhelpful user, I do listen to second opinions - just not those that are purely one-sided or that have constantly and unnecessarily slowed the development of an article in the past (perhaps deliberately).

Just to be clear, there is no need to persuade me - I've been trying to put in more citations as I go, and as someone who is in the assessment department, I strongly agree we need more citations overall. However, there are many ways to approach this issue on Misplaced Pages...and tags are only usually a final resort. While it seems you have the best of intentions, please be assertive, as you are in a position to help. Googling small details is more likely to yield a result than placing tags all over the place. (Also, tags suggest that there is conflict regarding whether this information is being debated, but there is no debate. If you do debate it and there are no citations after a week, those sections are likely to be wiped clean - something, that is unnecessary at the moment IMO, when the material holds truth (despite the lack of references in sections)).

I hope, that unlike certain users (evidenced by their contributions), you will not instigate constant edit wars which hinder this or any other article's growth. And I do apologise if anything that I've said seems unfriendly - that isn't my intention. I'm sure that you will help as much as you can, and any assistance that you can offer in actually bettering the quality of this article will most certainly be appreciated. Thanking you, Ncmvocalist 04:34, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I will be focussing my efforts today on creating the infobox per Hoysala standards and creating stubs for red links. I did a few yesterday actually. Then we can focus on unnecessary links. I assume there will be more assignments as we go along.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 14:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Your idea of geography and Biography stubs sounds good.Will let you know of other ideas.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 15:19, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Gangadevi-->I have corrected the info on this poetess. Be careful where you source info from as there is lot of POV on the net. There is no proven fact that she came from the Kakatiya family, though it is known she was married to Son of Bukka Raya I.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 00:12, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

However, I also realise its not your fault and even if it were, so what. we correct it and move on.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 01:23, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I have fixed all red links.Dineshkannambadi 01:51, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I had taken are of "extremely profitable" in Economy section and called financially profitable.Now the main remaining item is the Infobox.Dineshkannambadi 01:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I will take care of the box. If I fail, I know just the guy to contact.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 01:59, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I could not understand the sentence "many others such as the Dasa tribe, Griddhraj Parvat Parampara" in your stub Dasakuta. By the way, neat job in creating all these stubs.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 03:42, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The word "Dasa" has a long history and hence a long history of conflicting theories leading back to Aryan Invasion, Anti-dravidianism etc., issues that are extremely sensitive.

While this is a non issue for me, I think its better if you remove that part just incase someone comes after you with debates.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 16:27, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Judea (Israel) is ok as thats the general direction of exports the book talks about. You may change notable to something equivalent. Dont change the dasa in the literature portion, if that was what you meant, though I am not sure what you meant.thanks.Dineshkannambadi

If we are talking about the Dasakuta page, you may want to remove that last sentence after the names of individual dasas (Gopaladasa and Jagannathadasa I think from memory). If we are talking about the literature section on the main article, you may want to copyedit for flow etc.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 16:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I will take care of that page -Astadig. Unfortunately, some users are all gung-ho about creating articles pertaining to their interest but dont care to put references.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 18:12, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Dont link it to anything. Just say Dasa (devotee).thanks.Dineshkannambadi 19:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, dasas is pluralDineshkannambadi 20:59, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I will take a look at architecture section again tonight.I understand many of the temples dont go anywhere, but I think it would be a really big job to create a page for every temple mentioned there. We again come back to the place name vs temple issue. Many of the temples are actually described in the linked places, for ex: Sringeri, Tirupati. I think there is only so much we can do to link every think somewhere.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 21:37, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Humor is good. BTW I have asked for some help in moving up the preceeding and succeeding kingdoms from the bottom of the "former Country Infobox". The limitation with this box is it accepts only 5 kingdoms for each category. So I have had to keep Nayaka Kingdom of Gingee out.

The kingdom does not even have an article of its own. There may be a couple more really minor Nayakas around (Nayaka literally means leader).Dineshkannambadi 03:22, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Free e-Book removal

Hello Mattise ,

Could you please explain why a free book link voilates,and what is the MoS Section order.Can you please elbotare if such decisions are taken by a few selective users or it is a violation on the whole.The removal seems contradictory,and also some other Wiki pages do have a link to Project Guttenberg books,which you should be knowing that is a non profit organisation.

Thanks Southernstar

Hi Southernstar! As you can see from the template at the top of the page, this article is being reviewed for Featured Article status. See Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates and Misplaced Pages:Featured article criteria. To qualify as a Feature Article a strict format must be followed. Your entry violates the FA format rules. Specifically, see Misplaced Pages:Guide to layout#Standard appendices. Sincerely, Mattisse 14:32, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

"Modern" translation of Vemana

I hate to post here after our recent dispute, but it appears to be the best way to communicate. The translation was done by C.P. Brown and published in 1829! In the US, anything published before 1923 is in the public domain. Elsewhere, things go into the public domain 70 years after the death of the author (or translator in this case). Brown died in 1884. His translations passed into the public domain in 1954. There is even a page on sacred-texts.org that states that the work is in the public domain, here. Hope this helps your understanding of the situation. Jefferson Anderson 19:15, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

It's fine that you fixed it up. Thanks. My only interest in it is for Dinesh and the FA review. Please do not post on my page again. Thank you. Sincerely, Mattisse 19:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Amazing

You are amazing, you keep going and nothing tires you. If you have time, you could copyedit Hoysala literature and Western Chalukya literature since they are small sections. For Vijayanagara, I just need to add the ref info for the Astadiggaja page you pointed out. looks like all is smooth on the FAC so far.Dineshkannambadi 19:22, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

You could use the strike out method. Also dont bother to wikilink any of the poets as we are not ready right now to create stubs for them with the FA going on and all. Just trim up the pages for English prose. Many of the words are Indian words (names of writings) so not much you can do there. thanks.Dineshkannambadi 19:32, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I understand. You may start working on Western Chalukyas.Dineshkannambadi 21:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Just wanted you to know. I expect some tough days ahead due to a arbitration(s)

that I will be invloved in (regarding Chalukya dynasty, Rashtrakuta). A very disruptive user and frequent sock puppetear has been fighting hard to make his own rules and this has resulted in discord in the two above mentioned articles (one of which I was a major contributor towards to bring to FA). So if I am not so responsive to your messages, dont be disheartened. Right now ofcourse, the main goal is to bring Vijayanagara to FA. thanks.Dineshkannambadi 21:17, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

well, when I said arb, I meant it will go thru all the stages invloved before arb. This person who has been troubling Karnataka related articles has a history of disruptive edits and has been involved in hundreds of edit battles in articles related to Karnataka (he is from outside the state).Now he has started to use his native language citations to contradict English language citations I have provided from English sources. wiki rules clearly states that English language books should be given preference in English wiki. He refuses to accept this.hence...Dineshkannambadi 21:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I corrected the redirect for Kalyani Chalukyas. Yes I am aware this could be time consuming process. The person who has been trying to harrass me intends to slow me down. He is not happy with too many FA from Karnataka. Welcome to IndiaDineshkannambadi 22:03, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

He is the same person who tried to discredit me on the Hoysala Empire FA discussion page (unsuccessfully) and then again on Vijayanagara empire peer review discussion page. Interesting!!!!.Dineshkannambadi 22:20, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Some reviewers did not like "ancient and indegenous Hindu Dharma" and wanted Hinduism in general.thats all. Dont worry about what wiki definition for Hinduism. It can change tommorow and again the day after.Dineshkannambadi 12:36, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Whcih FA. Vijayanagara is still not a FA?thanks.Dineshkannambadi 14:06, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

The person who nominates is Raul, the director. I dont see his edits on the discussion page. Where do you see it. The discussion page still says FA candidate thats all.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 15:47, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

No hesitancy. Just an occupational disease. Its not done untill its done.Dineshkannambadi 16:05, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I looked at the web sites you sent me. The problem with Amazon.com is thay deal mostly in general books (while some books are specific and good) compared to more specific books available thru other sources in India.Dineshkannambadi 20:37, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I just sent you my first email.thanksDineshkannambadi 22:02, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems u were discussing about me. The reality is that Mr.Kannambadi is full of hatred against other languages that he wants every great empire (even if it is non-Kannadiga) to be labelled as kannadiga. he is removing Marathi citations when wikipedia rules clearly say it can be used. If u see chalukya and rashtrakuta he's deleting the info because it doesnt suite his 'stories'. Welcome to India! Sarvabhaum 18:12, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Savabhaum, my interest in Dineshkannambadi's articles is that I copy edit them for Feature Article candidacy. I am not an expert on India and cannot evaluate the article's content. I am looking for grammatical errors, poor writing style etc. Have you read the Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Vijayanagara Empire? Many of those editors who make the decision are from India. They are in the position to make decisions of bias. (I know so little about India's history that I have difficulty understanding the articles.) I have not discussed you with anyone. I apologise to you if it seemed that I did. Sincerely, Mattisse 18:29, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Wish to avoid friction

Hi Mattisse. The starwood festival article has a mention of Sufis which I had tagged with a citations needed tag. Rosencomet has suggested that I remove the mention of Sufis together with the tag. I wish to avoid any friction by editting the article, so please let me know if you have any concerns about me making such a change. Sincerely, --BostonMA 22:12, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe citation #86, the last citation in the Literature section is the concerned citation.The cite was brought in by user:Mlpkr. thanks.Dineshkannambadi 13:21, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

The redlink is put by the Infobox automatically. I made the same mistake before.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 18:14, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

yes we should focus on odd wordings. Also on the excess linking which has been pointed out.Thanks.Dineshkannambadi 20

38, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I just removed some more. go ahead. If you feel something needs to be added, add it. The place where normally repitions are likely and need removal are names of kings, languages, poets and saints.Dineshkannambadi 20:50, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

ok.Dineshkannambadi 21:00, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Inline notes: Can you give an example.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 22:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

This method of citing you showed is ok for small articles. It becomes messy when there are 30 citations from one author, some of which carry extra information other than just the cited author, publication and page number.

for example, "From records of the Ming dynasty, according to Suryanath U. Kamath, A Concise history of Karnataka from pre-historic times to the present, Jupiter books, MCC, 2001 (Reprinted 2002), p162 "

Here not only is the citation given but also extra information about where the scholars learned about the cited information which has been highlighted. There are scores of citations that carry this extra bit of infomation. This is why I prefer not to use the method you showed in this article. However if can think about it if one of the reviewers wants it that way.

One early reviewer wanted just the arthors name and page number ex: Suryanath U. Kamath, p162. But this I know was not acceptable in a previous review (Hoysala) when they wanted full citation. thanks.Dineshkannambadi 23:31, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I have seen theose articles before. Either way, the details have to be given and the size of the article may not change much. Let us wait for what the reviewers have to say so we dont put in lot of work for nothing. I know you mean well, but let us see what the reviewrs say. user:Nichalp is one of the reviewers and highly respected. If he has not commented about the size of the notes, then it may be ok. If he/they does(do) comment, we can club together several notes where possible and then fine tune the notes.Untill then, lets wait.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 23:44, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I removed a few more repeat links.Dineshkannambadi 02:24, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Every reviewer has his own view. see the FAC discussion. I guess its hard to satisfy everyone 100%.thanksDineshkannambadi 13:12, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Lanka is Sri Lanka.Dineshkannambadi 18:35, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you could call it "present day Sri Lanka" or put (Sri Lanka) in brackets.Dineshkannambadi 18:42, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:AMA Requests for Assistance/Requests/November 2006/Mattisse

Hi Mattisse. I'm having a look at this case of yours to see what's happening. I'll read through the material and speak to a few people. While I'm doing that, relax, have a nice cup of tea, and reflect on the whole bizzare nature of misunderstandings. A really bad person is a rare thing - most conflicts arise over misunderstandings and poor communication. My intention in this is to settle the dispute to everyone's satisfaction. Let's hope it works! You can chat to me on my talk page, or by email. Regards. SilkTork 20:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

yes, after sometime, even for someone who has read 4 books entirely on the issue it gets difficult and mind numbing. So I just make sure the copy edits maintain the meaning of the citation as closely as possible. The main areas to make sure there is no change in meaning is History (related to origins, legends, sources) which is always contentious, Literature, language and may be religion sections. Economy, Social life, administration etc are more flexible areas.thanks.I am now adding citations to Ancient City of Vijayanagara.Dineshkannambadi 02:36, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

yes indeed history is largely becoming a bunch of opinions. This is why old theroies may get relegated to "legends" and new theories become modern truths, hopefully based on more modern techniques.Hope this helps.Dineshkannambadi 14:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Message for you about Vijayanagara Empire

See http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Dineshkannambadi#question_on_books for answer to your concerns. mlpkr 17:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Article in need of cleanup - please assist if you can

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To keep busy

One thing you could do is to start creating stubs for individual poets, like you did for Chamarasa. You could pick up names of famous poets from the literature section of Hoysala, Western Chalukya, Rashtrakuta, Western Ganga Dynasty. Whether you choose to write about Kannada or Sanskrit poets is up to you. When you have made a choise, just let me know and I will tell you if articles for them already exist or not so your effort wont be wasted. This will give me the impetus to expand on your stubs too. How's that sound? thanks.Dineshkannambadi 18:35, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Try to focus on Kannada poets for now.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 20:55, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I assumed you would go into the sub article like Hoysala literature where it is clearly marked Kannada or Sanskrit.Dineshkannambadi 21:11, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, names in Italics are the names of literary writings.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 21:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Why dont you just throw at me what you think are names of scholars and I shall validate or invalidate.thanksDineshkannambadi 22:45, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Can you work on Nagavarma I and Nagavarma II. I am especially interested in the later, a great poet. You will find him mentionde in Western Chalukya literature.thanksDineshkannambadi 00:47, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I understand your problem. Try working on Talakad. There are bunch of articles on the net for this interesting place.

Nothing in particular. The more info you can add, like the job you did on Banavasi, always helps.Dineshkannambadi 02:00, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Just explain each temple in the town article itself with as much info as possible. We can later add images for each if available. This place as a "whole" is interesting, but each temple indivudually is not that famous. I dont think I will be able to write as much about these temples as I did for Chennakesava Temple & Hoysaleaswara temple etc. Try to write up on the sand dunes also. I may have some images in my albums.Dineshkannambadi 03:27, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks.I will think of something by afternoon.thanksDineshkannambadi 16:34, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Do you want to work on Kannada Mathematician Rajaditya (citation #7 on Hoysala literature page). The reason I am emphasising on building Kannada poets database is because sometime in the future I want to work on Kannada literature page. There I want to touch upon all these topics and scholars.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 20:22, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

look at at do a search there.Dineshkannambadi 20:32, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you want to start a page for Chitradurga Fort. If you do rad up on Chitradurga district Nayakas of Chitradurga to get a background. I plan to visit the fort this year and expand on the article.Dineshkannambadi 23:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

is you email ok now.?Dineshkannambadi 02:49, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

looks like it.Dineshkannambadi 03:32, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I saw it. still ways to go.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 22:25, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

. No, I meant untill Raul signs it of as FA, its not a FA. Though I dont see a reason for it not to be.Dineshkannambadi 23:24, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

We can address some of the issues in the FAC discussion by latest reviewer. One thing that will be difficult to address is the creation of new subheadings he mentioned.Dineshkannambadi 12:50, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I have replied on the FAC discussion. Please take a look. Yes we should not change the subheadings now unless absolutely necessary.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 13:07, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, fits in well in the Ancient City of Vijayanagara article along with the "naga worship" image at the bottom or some where on that page. What do you think. Generally, these reliefs are very commonly found in many Hindu temples (not trying to discourage you).Dineshkannambadi 14:54, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Take a look at Keladi Nayaka. These are also Vijayanagara era reliefs and the image is clearer (apart from the fact that I took the photograph:)).thanks.Dineshkannambadi 16:03, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I can look in my albums. Anyway, the parrot image should give them the idea, I think.Dineshkannambadi 16:27, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

In the Talakad page, the location of Talakad on the map is approximately 1500Kms off from excat location!!!. It should be in southern Karnataka, more specifically in Mysore district.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 19:47, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I have corrected the location more or less.Dineshkannambadi 19:52, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

sorry for what? Not an issue at all.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 21:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Have you seen the Vijayanagara FAC discussion. We got an "oppose". One reviewer does not like the citation format, just like you had talked about. But then, this was the format adviced in other FA's.Dineshkannambadi 03:14, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

This reviewer's concern has been with the format of the citations only (other than the image issue). But many of the reviewers are not Indians and this format has been accepted by some tough reviewrs like Tony1 who prescribed it. Please read the discussion page for my explanation.So now what. How will Raul react to this is the issue.Dineshkannambadi 06:18, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

See the latest remarks he has posted on the FAC discussion. Clearly his own views on citations.We need to treat carefully now. I will contact some of the reviewers.Dineshkannambadi 06:27, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Chitradurga Fort

Thanks for this start. There are lots of unique things about this fort about which I shall find a book to write from.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 21:41, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

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Better than I...

Thanks for the note. If you haven't yet, it is definitely worthwhile to read ragesoss' reponse to, and elabouration upon, my thinking. Jkelly 20:15, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

You reorg is fine. sorry I was out for a while. The only reason I mentioned that names of individual artists were not mentoined was to stress on the existance of corporate business and not individual enterprise.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 22:30, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Banditry? We all know about "Bandit Queen" of central India!! (she is no more ofcourse)Dineshkannambadi 22:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

outlaw is good enough I think?Dineshkannambadi 22:50, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

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Embankment dam article

Embankment dams are all ready discussed in the article on dams. With your consent, I'd like to create a redirect for this topic to that section of the Dam article. Let me know. Thanks, --Zuejay 00:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, folks' lack of knowledge of certain topics can be very frustrating - I get particularly frustrated with the disambiguous description of embankment that's wants me to look at the article on slope which is really mostly just math, not engineering; however, since I don't have time to fix it right now, I just deal with it.
Perhaps, since you have extensive knowledge of dams, you can work to refine the dam article? If the embankment dam article is expanded beyond stub status, it can certainly remain. How about...hmmm... I'll add a note in the embankment dam section of the dam article that directs the user to the 'Main' embankment dam article? That should work for now, but the embankment dam article really will need to be expanded beyond stub status.
--Zuejay 01:10, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Starwood

Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Starwood. Please add any evidence you may wish the arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Starwood/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Starwood/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, --Srikeit 00:59, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Western Chalukya

Western Chalukya "economy" looks good now. I need to add a couple of images. I have one for wall relief with women in dancing poses that looks good.Dineshkannambadi 00:44, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

All the reference you have used also points to Tamil websites or books about Tamils. This may have pointed the person to call them Tamil, while it may generally mean South Indian merchants. Neither of my two sources (Sastri or Thapar, p384) specifically give a language designation, but simply South Indian merchants.Dineshkannambadi 01:43, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

The article says they are now Tamil speaking. It does not mean they spoke Tamil in 9th century. People have moved around a lot in the last 1000 years, so I think we should keep language out of the article. My books clearly says they were from Aihole during the Chalukya times. Aihole is very much in north Karnataka.Dineshkannambadi 18:51, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I have removed the Dhangar link you added to Heggadde in Economy. My book says "inscriptions from karnataka" while mentioning Heggadde. Also Heggadde's are generally in coastal Karnataka even today while Dhangar's seemed to be located mostly in Maharashtra. Just to avoid confusion over castes etc.Not your fault.Dineshkannambadi 19:02, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I just completed a page on Rashtrakuta literature. Whatever little copyedit will do fine, given the nature of the contents.thanksDineshkannambadi 19:05, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I replied by email.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 19:28, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I have made a few changes to some of those merchant guild links. The more general we keep it, the better. The one that points to Kerela Jews is interesting.Dineshkannambadi 15:49, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I remember reading that oxen were used for land trade. Whole sale or hawked meant both locally and overseas, through contacts I suppose. I have not read of elephants being used to carry trade goods, though it is well known they were used for pulling lumber to rivers edge (I come from the state that has the highest elephant population-Karnataka).Dineshkannambadi 17:02, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

AMA

You filed a case at the AMA. Do you still want an Advocate, or another Advocate? Geo. 18:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't know. I would have to discuss it with a potential Advocate first so I would have a "heads up" on what to expect. Sincerely, Mattisse 22:12, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

if you want I can give you a list of names of potential advocates. To learn what to expect you can read the Guide to Advocacy on the AMA page. Hope this helps, Geo. 02:37, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Would you like a list of names? Geo. 04:04, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that would help me much. I have not had good luck with AMA Advocates. You as the mediator of Starwood asked the now indefinitely banned User:999 to provide evidence to block me. The second Advocate refused to answer any of my emails. The third Advocate spread my name all over Misplaced Pages by publically asking now blocked sockpuppets their opinion of me before consulting with me about this strategy -- and continued in this behavior after being repeatedly warned by another AMA Advocate that this was an unwise strategy. Plus he did not heed my wishes to stop. He then withdrew without providing me with any feedback except to have a cup of tea. The Advocate that warned him to stop spreading my name around did "save" his Advocatee from a negative Arbitration ruling, but now his client is up on more sockpuppetry accusations --- so I'm not seeing what good AMA Advocacy does, except save bad people. Perhaps you can persuade me otherwise. However, your signature is still very confusing so I cannot post to you. And, allthough I have read the Guide to Advocacy in the past, I can't find it at the moment. And as I remember, it did not help me before. In fact, I was quite misled by it. So, what do you think? Is there hope that anything helpful would result? I think if a user has done something bad a good Advocate can get you out of trouble, but if you want to learn and receive feedback it is not helpful for that. Sincerely, Mattisse 04:29, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Columns

I saw the link. This would be a really neat article. I have really some basic knowledge of columns in Karnataka but I can assure you there are several styles in Karnataka alone not to mention India and defnitely needs much more knowledge than I have about it now. But this is a topic I have considered studying. The topic is highly specialised. So what I plan to do is approach it more generally first by creating "architecture" pages for each kingdom I have worked/will work on. This way pillars will be mentioned in a section, as in Hoysala architecture. When I have satisfied myself that I have done basic justice to architecture, then I wil start getting more detailed, but all this takes time.Dineshkannambadi 14:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Please take a look at Hoysala architecture--LEAD. I added some info there based on automated peer review.Dineshkannambadi 16:36, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, please look at the Peer review "automated" response on Peer review discussion page. We need to find a box if there is one for architecture related pages.Dineshkannambadi 16:40, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Hoysala architecture

Good question. There was very little influence from other religions at that time in Southern India. The Southern invasions of Mugals started towards the end of 13th century. Very few Hindu kingdom palaces prior to 17th century have survived. Palaces and forts as we have learnt in our FA articles were the worst to suffer during invasions. No Hoysala palace has survived. They also built some fine stepped wells, the one at Hulikere is in good condition but I have not visited this place. Perhaps we can simply mention this stepped well as an example.Dineshkannambadi 18:21, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually the article was reorganised about a month back based on your recommendation. Never-the-less if you have any further ideas, this is as good a time as any. I dont think we should worry about time line because this reorg could be a part of peer review.Dineshkannambadi 18:33, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I feel basic elements has more to do with structural elements rather than religious iconification. However, it is indirectly a part of sculpture.Dineshkannambadi 19:06, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I believe diety dedication was under basic elements earlier. But you had recommended that it be brought out. So thats what we did.thanksDineshkannambadi 20:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I looked back to an older version, and "Dedication" was outside basic elements and "deities" was inside. We brough out deities and combined with dedication with some rewording.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 20:48, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Its nobody's fault. Just suggestions and changing impressions. Feel free to move the deity dedication paragraph into where you feel appropriate. We can always change anything as we go along. Nothing is hard and fast.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 23:11, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

India was entirely Hindu (with various versions and excepting the forest dwellers who held their own animistic beliefs) upto about 500 BCE (Hindisum itself finds its roots in the Indus Vally civilization of 3000-2000 BCE). Buddhism and Jainsim were born in India around 500BCE and by 500AD, some historians predict that nearly half of polulation had taken up Buddhism and Jainism. Later due to new emerging flexible Hindu philosophies (that we went thru in the FA's), Buddhism and Jainsim lost its appeal. But Hinduism itself had been influenced by Buddhism and Jainism to a significant extent. So by 13th century, vast majority were back to Hinduism. Then came Islam and later Christianity into India.Just a real brief. I may be off a bit in numbers.Dineshkannambadi 02:31, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I think it has to satisfy both the India specialist with basic info on architecture (which we have given) and hopefully convey some useful info to an non-Indian who is interested in learning.Dineshkannambadi 02:41, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

The bottom of the article seems to be crumpled up. How do we set that right?Dineshkannambadi 02:43, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I have added a few lines about Jain temples built by Hoysalas and about their stepped wells. I need to add a citation for stepped wells which I will. My book by Foekema gives a beautiful picture of the well, but unfortunately I cant use it here. I will add an image of a Jain temple or something to that effect today. Yesterday you asked me about secular structures, well at that time, the word secular meant Vaishnava-Shaiva secularism. I explained why in one of my earlier messages. The article as of yesterday has been given a B grade on the discussion page. Can you look out for redundant words and British-American spellings. I have identified a few and changed.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 14:54, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes Buddhism virtually made an exit into China/ SE Asia by end of first mille. I am aware of some of the minor cults like Saktaism etc but not much is written about them as they were not really popular. Vaishnava and Shaiva sects of Hindusim and Jaina religion are the 3 main topics from the 10-12th century time.Dineshkannambadi 15:47, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Just occured to me. I bet we will be expected to provide a neat sketch indicating the various parts of the temple structure. Just providing relevant pictures will not cut it.Dineshkannambadi 16:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Makara means beast (imaginery) and Torana is roughly equivalent to a mistletoe, except religious in nature and comprises of sacred leaves tied into a garland. This torana is hung on the wall just above the door in the entrance of most Hindu homes. Makaratorana similarly is an ornamentation on stone that decorates the doorway . A devotee entering into a Hoysala temple walks under the Makaratorana while entering the mantapa.(hall)Dineshkannambadi 23:17, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

That Jagati be combined with Temple complex

That Pillars be compined with Mantapa

Reply-->Actually whn I had asked the opinion of a senior wikipedian at one time, he had said "explain all the salient feature independently and in the same order it is explained in the general overview section". Reason: These are very short sections Reply Why dont we try to expand on this. Pillars can be expanded without too much effort. I will do this.

Maybe Research notes could be made into a History section that would be the first section in the article. Maybe Architects could be woven into that. Reply-->that was how it was long back (2 months). Myself and KNM moved it down because of the advice we got from a wikipedian.

In short, I am not sure which is ok and which is not, to be honest.Dineshkannambadi 00:29, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

You a right. The four line paragraph on Jagati looks awful.I will try to dog up some info on this one. The problem is architecture is a very specific topic and hence tough to handle. Dineshkannambadi 00:39, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Let me post a note to user:Nichalp first and see what he says.Dineshkannambadi 00:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

How about Jagati and mantapa and Pillars and sculptures as combined sections.Dineshkannambadi 00:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes we are in uncharted territory alright. But this is a good start. Not too many have tried this.Dineshkannambadi 00:51, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

well, the Mantapa sits on a Jagati, the pillars support the mantapa interior. Chicken-and-egg.

No need to save a copy. We can try your idea and see how it looks. BTW i have left a message for Nichalp. Maybe we should wait?Dineshkannambadi 01:01, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

We could selectively include "inline citation" information into the main article to increase content if required. As far as providing basic information to the reader, I really doubt we can get more basic and convey the meaning.Dineshkannambadi 01:12, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Make it understandable to the world, yes. But within reason. An eclectic culture with an ancient history - If we get too basic, the article is just another blog site.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 01:41, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Sure. Lets see what reviews we get and we can go from there. Generally people who want to read on architecture/History are not the unspohisticated types (though I have suffered greatly at the hands of those few exceptions who see it with political motive-disruptive users). In the FA's I think we have provided significant links, bracketed meanings etc to give the reader an opportunity to make an effort to read in detail.I know it has been an uphill task for you to help with edits, create stubs, clarify meanings, create links and learn about in India in the midst of all this while its easy for me to write without blinking an eyelid. A few years from now when you have become more familiar with India/India topics, you will be thinking more like me - meaning "lets provide the details".!!thanks.Dineshkannambadi 02:10, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

The Temple deities section in Hoysala architecture needs more citations. I will add it tonight.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 13:52, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

We can continue to copyedit Western Chalukyas for now and cleanup ni the background.I have been working no its citations. Normally the peer review (Hoysala arch) goes on for a couple of weeks after which it gets archived. At that point we can move or not move Hoysala architecture to FA review depending on how we feel. I dont think we should bump the article simply because of slow/low feedback. No, I have not received any feed back from Nichalp. Perhaps I can ping someone else. maybe user:deeptrivia. Tony1 I felt was a bit rough on Hoysala empire (I know he is good though). The option of moving Western Chalukyas to Peer review after Hoysala arch peer review gets archived is also open. At the end of the day, even if Hoysala arch does not become FA, we should work for a GA tag atleast. That will be a good start. Can you look for American-British spellings and make them all British on Hoysala arch? Feel free to add tags where you deem necessary. ThanksDineshkannambadi 15:16, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

re:How do you find past AMA's that were open?"

I had one that was open but I have no idea where it is or what the status is now. Also, I was named in a previous one and I do not know where that one is either or whether I am being accused of things there. (I only found out by accident that I was named.) There seems to be no way to find these, or I am missing the way on you AMA page menu? Thanks in advance for you help. My new Advocate has not been contacting me by email so I would appreciate some sort of update. Sincerely, Mattisse 01:29, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I've changed the status of your case from "Open" to "Under Investigation" as I familiarize myself with the case... and as you probably know, this is a -very- involved case. I'm almost finished reading through all of the material and consulting with the other Advocates who were involved. Once that is finished, I'll be able to go over with you the pertinent points that I feel need to be addressed for my better understanding, and then go over what you wish to get out of Advocacy. I'll be in contact soon. אמר Steve Caruso _(desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 01:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

re:Where is my case?

How can I find the page for myself? How can I get answers to any questions? I want to find out how I got named with the sockpuppets. This is how I received notification of my sockpuppets: I am about to file a Request for Arbitration against the user to labelled me as soon as I can figure out how. I will file something tomorrow. He will not answer my requests. Sincerely, Mattisse 02:06, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

As I mentioned before, your case is filed under "Under Investigation" on our main page WP:AMA (scroll down to the bottom). If you don't see it, here's link directly to the category (yours is the only case in the category) Category:AMA_Requests_for_Assistance/Under_investigation. I apologize if my explanation was vague. The namings for sockpuppetry were most likely due to another party (I would guess 999) posting a notice to the WP:ANI, but I would need time to dig things up. Administrators who are completely removed from the situation, if given a list of apparently cogent criteria will act upon them. In some cases mistakes are made due to the person who filed on WP:ANI stretching the criteria enough (in a sense falsifying a report) to make it look as if the editor in question has committed a wrong when they indeed haven't. This is always a possibility.

As for your Request for Arbitration: Please take what I am about to tell you sincerely and to the heart: I have extensive knowledge about how the Arbitration Committee works, how much time the Arbitrators have in working with cases (they are volunteers, afterall), and what makes a case something that the Arbitration Committee is likely to accept. If you file an Arbitration directly against the user that labeled you (who is most likely an admin who was simply responding to a convincing WP:ANI report) without attempting to resolve it first with them, the person who prompted them, or through mediation (formal or informal), then the case will not get through The Dispute Resolution Process on Misplaced Pages works if you give it the proper amount of weight, time and effort, and in the end is far less stressful, judgemental, and less likely to impact you on a more long-term basis than ArbCom. As an editor in a bind, your best plan of action is to find a way to prevent these problems from escalating to the next notch in the process and resolve them amicably to the betterment of all parties involved as well as Misplaced Pages, itself.

As I stated before, I will be in touch as soon as I can. There is a lot that I must do to understand exactly what's going on and I, like every other editor on Misplaced Pages, am also a volunteer trying my best to help. אמר Steve Caruso _(desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 03:20, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

re:This has been going on seven months now -- what are you suggesting?

Every day is agony. Sincerely, Mattisse 05:32, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Mattisse, I've told you that when I am ready to continue I will contact you. If Misplaced Pages is "true agony," the best solution in the meantime, in my experience is to take a short Wikibreak and I can contact you via email when things can proceed. I, personally, have a -lot- on my plate Coordinating the AMA, Administrating the Aramaic Misplaced Pages, being the President of a Web Design firm, a translator, a graduate student in an MLIS program, a father of a 4 month old daughter, and in the middle of trying to start a home business with my wife. I can only give so much time and effort to each endeavor. אמר Steve Caruso _(desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 15:33, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I am blocked as Sockpuppet by 204.11.35.132

But the "log" does not mention it or tell me why. Is this a trick. I have no sockpuppets. Am I violating it now by writing you? Sincerely, Mattisse 14:54, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

You've been blocked by an IP...? That would be funny, if it wasn't distressing to you. IP's can't block anybody. User:204.11.35.132 put a {{sockpuppeteer}} template on your userpage, that's all. (It's been reverted now.) The part I don't understand is the 3RR thing you mention in your mail—has the anon messaged you? I hope things have cleared up by now. In case they haven't, I've sent you a g-mail invite to chat, so we can figger out what's happening, if anything (my guess would be nothing). IRC would work, too. Don't worry, now. You obviously can edit—you edited my talkpage—and there's no block in your log. You're not blocked. Bishonen | talk 16:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC).

Sockpuppets

I accused you of having operated sockpuppets for the simple reason that checkuser evidence indicated that you have. This having been a long time ago, I do not recall the specifics; I do, however, recall that the evidence was strong. Moreover, you sent me a number of e-mails in which you admitted to sockpuppetry and promised to discontinue the practice if I unblocked you. This sounded fair, so unblock you I did. I am utterly mystified at your sudden pretence of innocence. — Dan | talk 19:37, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I protected nobody. What 999 has done is irrelevant; 999's only role in my previous interaction with you was to draw attention to your sockpuppeting. That he is now banned does not render his observation more or less true.

Nothing about the checkuser was 'under the table'; I simply did not record the specific IP information. Nor, I think, would it have been appropriate for me to record it; your identity was no business of mine. I was only concerned with your behavior on this website.

I neither know nor care whether you have been sockpuppeting since the occasion in which I was previously involved. Perhaps you are now wrongfully accused; I don't know. I cannot quite see your point in asking me these questions; all I can say is that you did previously operate a number of sockpuppets, you admitted the fact to me, and you promised not to do it again. — Dan | talk 22:04, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome? I really don't know how you expect me to respond. — Dan | talk 00:53, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

This is absurd. You got caught sockpuppeting (entirely by chance). If my having caught you has caused "horrible damage" then the fault is yours for having broken the rules to begin with. Please do not leave me further messages unless you have something meaningful to say. — Dan | talk 01:21, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I think there is a need for a little calmness here, yesterday we had an anon IP add a sockpuppet tag which was quickly removed. Annoying, yes, but its something you need to take in your stride. And the action seems to have been in reltaliation to your own adding of a sock tag. I'm increasingly thinking there is little to be gained by digging up old stuff. The technical data has for the most part expired as IP records are only kept for a short time. Other evidence is inconclusive and hard to draw any conclusions. --Salix alba (talk) 08:37, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

AMA Request

I accidentally accepted your case instead of the one I intended to accept. Sorry for any confusion caused. Oliver202 18:48, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar

Thanks! - WeniWidiWiki 04:22, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Fla State Parks

Thanks for the tweaks on De Leon Springs and Torreya; muchly improved. :) --Ebyabe 13:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I am rather OCD when I get into something. I'm glad my user page is actually, well, useful. I was just hoping for it to be amusing. It's funny you left your reply when you did, as I was reorganizing my pics at WikiCommons. My goal is to get pics of every State Park and National Register of Historic Places site in Florida. I was going to do this by myself, but I found others similarly interested, so I'm able to "spread the love", as it were. But I'm going to get as many myself as I can, 'cause I loves me the roadtrips!

And living here in Ocala, I'm strategically located to get a bunch of sightseeing done in one day. My last roadtrip, from Umatilla to De Leon Springs and down US 92 to Sanford, is a good example. Though I'm becoming more enamoured by the Panhandle, as I've hardly seen it much and it's so atypical of what folks think of Flordia. I'm hoping to make another sweep through that vicinity soon. :)

As far as gov't sources "copyvio", I think since it's usually public domain, it's not really copyvio. Though I like to at least rearrange things a bit anyway, just in case and for aesthetics. Of course, I mostly do stubs so I don't have to worry about that sort of thing. In the time it would take me to do a decent article, I can create dozens of stubs. I believe in quantity over quality. Though even my quantities need to have a minumum level of quality, doncha know.  :) --Ebyabe 16:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Your Second AMA Case

Mattisse, you are not supposed to start another AMA case while you already have one open. I can understand if you are getting impatient with the time it is taking me to read over the voluminous tomes that make up your information, but you cannot circumvent how our system works. It puts an undue strain on the AMA, and only frustrates those who are trying to help you. אמר Steve Caruso _(desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 22:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

References to Yuezhi article

Dear Matisse:

Thank you for starting the process of inserting references into the Yuezhi article. This urgently needs doing.

Unfortunately, I have had to remove the quote (including the Chinese) you gave to ref No. 3 as it was just from an article about the Yuezhi - not from an original text as indicated. I have inserted a reference instead to my on-line draft translation from a chapter of the Hou Hanshu instead. I also changed the grammar slightly on your note about the Qilian Mountains. I hope you don't mind - but, if you do, please write to me and discuss it. Together we should be able to work out something satisfactory.

I should add that my draft translation is presently being updated for publication and I will insert the updated translation of this passage when it is published.

When I can find the time I will try to do some more work on the references in this article and the one on the Kushan Empire. I have updated the ones referring to Burton Watson's translations from the Shiji as they are now out in a revised form (with pinyin!).

Do drop me a line if you have any concerns or just wish to chat about ways to improve these aricles.

Cheers,

John Hill 23:51, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar

• I award Mattisse barnstar in appreciation of contributions to article related to India --Pinecar 00:43, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

More on Yuezhi

Dear Matisse:

Thank you for your note on my Talk Page. Unfortunately, I am not very clear as to what you are doing. You say: "I'm copy editing a bunch of articles on Indian history for FA applications and so sometimes I try to upgrade the articles they link to so the FA application will stand a better chance." I am not sure what "FA" stands for - could you please explain it for me?

Also you ask (I think) if the Yuezhi were originally a Central Asian tribe who invaded India. Yes, this is true. Cheers, John Hill 01:02, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Matisse

Thanks for your detailed explanation on my Talk Page. It is good to make your acquaintance! Yes, I think we do have some things in common. If you ever need any help with ancient Indian historical matters please do not hesitate to contact me - I may be able to help - especially if it involves the Kushan Empire in any way. I may get back to you for time to time on advice on how to make a page ready for an FA application! All best wishes. John Hill 04:15, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Nice to see you chipping away.Dineshkannambadi 04:57, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Sea routes-->This map refers to the early centuries of the first Millennium as it shows "Andhras" (Satavahanas).thanks.Dineshkannambadi 02:47, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Map

We don't claim Misplaced Pages:Fair use on maps, since we can always draw our own. Ask User:ChrisO nicely; he's quite good at them. Or try it yourself. Unless you're already proficient with image software, the first one will take a very long time. But they're much easier after that first one. You should be able to find a map on Commons that has the section outlined in order to start you off. Jkelly 02:13, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I use GIMP for image editing. I'd be willing to bet that someone at the Misplaced Pages:Reference desk would be able to tell you exactly what the best image editing software for drawing maps for your particular OS is. Seriously. Jkelly 02:46, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

talk

If you wish to comment on Jatropha incentives in India, you do so at talk:Jatropha incentives in India. -- RHaworth 06:17, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Mapofarunachalp.jpg

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I think those who are interested in Kannada poetry will eventually get down to it. Does her place of residence matter?Dineshkannambadi 17:21, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Do you think it may have been removed for privacy reasons? If so then it is probably ok.Dineshkannambadi 17:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I have not heard of her, but that does not mean she is not good. Probably because Kannada language is such a giant in literature in India it takes one to be really famous to beheard. Also it could be that she is still young, has not won any big awards (Sahitya academy)? However it looked good in the Kannada poets section. I believe User:Sarvagnya was handling the Kannada poets template. Maybe he can make sure it stays in that cateogry.Dineshkannambadi 17:58, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

We should create a category called "contemporary or modern Kannada poets"Dineshkannambadi 17:59, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

literature and poetry

Isn't poetry a subset of literature -- literature being the the whole body of written works, while there are genres or subsets such as poettry, playwriting, historical works, tracts on mathmatics etc.? --Mattisse 20:02, 18 February 2007 (UTC) P.S. What did scholars write about?

You are right. It all comes under literature but for convinience, may be poets and literature could be seperated, medieval and modern should be seperated. I am having a comm with user:Gnanapiti on that now. He i believe handles this.Dineshkannambadi 20:44, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

thanks.Dineshkannambadi 20:44, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

The lure of wealth and housing was more at a middle class or upper middle class level. They were typically given a few acres of land (I guess, though no specific acreage has been mentioned). If a Brahmin priest of high knowledge performed an important ritual or an important and accurate astrological prediction to rise the status/power/fortune of nobility or Kings, they were given much more land/endowements. But they rarely reached the level of wealth of wealthy landlords, Feudal Barnos (arasa) etc. I am sure from what I read that there were wealthy Brahmins who were into Horse trading on the western sea board, wetland farming and in powerful administrative positions etc, but generally their wealth came from royal endowments. The exact nature of the endowments are not mentioned in my books though and one can only guess. As my citation says, they were mostly into literary/intellectual persuits.Dineshkannambadi 01:30, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

AMD/INTEL all meet similar requirements and compete. The price diff will by ~$50. BTW, something went wrong in Society section of Western Chalukyas. (my fault). The three works of music related literature were not written by women. I had it in the wrong place.I will correct it.Dineshkannambadi 01:41, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I took care of the problem. I added some more new info to the literature section as well. Do you think it fits there?Dineshkannambadi 02:01, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

archiving talk pages

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Hope I'm doing this right. It doesn't look right though I followed the directions (I thought). I alread have the next archive set up. Should I remove it as it might confused the bot? Or will the bot just plow ahead? Thanks! Sincerely, Mattisse 15:22, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

 Done I'm not exactly sure what the problem was, but the bot didn't like something in the stack of posts it was archiving. I ended up archiving all but one by hand, and letting the bot archive that one as a test. Everything seems fine now, but if it acts up, let me know. Essjay (Talk) 06:13, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

The bot didn't archive my page though. Is it set up so it will the next time around? Thanks! --Mattisse 12:01, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

It did, here though it was only one post; I wanted to make sure that it was working. :) The next time the page needs archiving, the bot should catch it in it's automatic runs. Essjay (Talk) 02:28, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Kavirajamarga

If you feel like, you may copy edit the page Kavirajamarga which I have created and edited with useful info.thanksDineshkannambadi 15:03, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I have made a few chagnes to Nagavarma II (1150) you created. The Ganga KIngdom Nagavarma was Nagavarma I (980), ofcourse its not your fault nor did the source (ourKarnataka.com) explicitly say so, but the moment I read "Nagavarma wrote Chandombuddhi" I knew they meant Nagavarma I.Dineshkannambadi 02:14, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

On the same issue, just to ensure there is no confusion on names of poets and their works, touch base with me if you get the slighest doubt about any web reference or book reference you make. It is not uncommon for scholars to write in different languages but give the same name to the writing from different era, its also possible for two scholars to have the same name, be of different generations and so on.

I appreciate what you are doing though.Dineshkannambadi 02:29, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Hoysala architecture

I got a positive note from user:Nichalp (who was away from a while I guess) about how he feels about the article. He says go for FA review. I am moving it today. I need you to partner me as always.Dineshkannambadi 16:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I have emailed you a reply.Dineshkannambadi 15:14, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi. If you know how to draw maps, I have a few that need to be drawn. The Rashtrakuta territories at their peak (the current one is the core area), Gangas and Kadambas territories. I can scan and email the maps to you when you are ready.Dineshkannambadi 15:45, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Maps

Hi Mattisse! I use inkscape to draw maps and related graphics. I usually try and get a scaled source map, blow it up, and trace over it on a new layer. Once done, I delete the layer which contains the raster image. For consistency we have preferred to stick to the colors recommended to Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Maps#Map colors. You can also join Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Indian maps. Let me know if you have any queries. Regards, =Nichalp «Talk»= 06:23, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Hello, you have reverted my contribution to the Hyosala page..

You have thrown out my contribs to the Hyosala page without debate. Please see

http://www.whatisindia.com/inscriptions/south_indian_inscriptions/volume_12/stones_1_to_25.html

for discussion on Munda-Rashtra and there is historical precedence (as in the Chola case that I had cited) for calling a king by the name of his country.

Rgds, Aravind Sitaraman —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Asitaram (talk • contribs) 14:10, 22 February 2007 (UTC).

You did the right thing by taking out POV.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 14:55, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

You helped choose Rwandan Genocide as this week's WP:ACID winner

Thank you for your support of the Article Improvement Drive. This week Rwandan Genocide was selected to be improved to featured article status. Hope you can help.

AzaBot 23:06, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

In Hoysala architecture, The word "clockwise circumabulation" may be confusing. The book mentions right to left. So we should probably stick to the term.Dineshkannambadi 02:56, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

No, I did not change anything pertaining to "clockwise". Infact I have explained in the review that the term clockwise has been used for clarification purpose, to make it easier to understand. The reviewer had some doubts thats all. I am sure if he has more doubts, we can request him to look at the wikilinked page you created for circumabulation.Hope you are not upset by this query. No need to go to another topic as of yet, unless you want to. This will take another 3 weeks I think.Dineshkannambadi 03:09, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I have cut and paste my conversation with a reviewer. No politics here. He needed some clarification and I provided it. Thats all. I though he may have been confused by the term "clockwise".Dineshkannambadi 03:42, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

• Comment In " Temple deities", These sequences go right to left, in the direction of circumambulation by devotees. But in next section (Temple complex), Devotees can first complete a ritual circumambulation on the jagati by walking in a clockwise direction before entering the mantapa, following the sculptural clockwise-sequenced reliefs on the outside temple walls depicting the Hindu epics. There is something wrong in the direction here. Or am I missing something?

Reply-> I have tried to clarify this after reading the line in my book. The term clockwise (which has been used for clarity and does not apear in my book) must be seen as a top view. When a devotee gets on to the jagati, the devotee starts walking towards his/her left to see the sequence of scenes (my book calls it "right to left sequence of epic scenes in the direction of circumabulation".Dineshkannambadi 00:16, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, the word clockwise does appear on page 25 in my book. I will make this correction on the review page.I should not have been so hasty in answering the reviewers question.Dineshkannambadi 03:51, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Do you recall I had once mentioned that we should provide a temple sketch with labeled parts. The revewier has requested for one (on my talk page). We need to figure out how to do this if possible. My book may have a sketch in the back which I can scan. But to hand re-draw with a computer tool, we need to find someone who has the software. But since this request is not on the FAC page, it may not be absolutely necessary right now.Dineshkannambadi 20:03, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Makes sense. Go ahead and add it. It gives a basic description of what a Hindu temple is about. I will answer the reviewrs other questions tonight in the FAC page. You may proceed with simplyfying the complicated words with (bracketed) meanings though.Dineshkannambadi 20:07, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Mattisse, I made several seperate edits to answer the reviewers questions. I tried to save it at the same time you saved your latest edit. So we got a conflict. Since your latest edit was a move, it would be easier for you to redo it, then for me to retype all my edits. Do you mind if I save my edits which means you will have to redo your paragraph move edit.Dineshkannambadi 23:29, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually why dont you leave your edits alone. I will just revert my edits and start over.?Dineshkannambadi 23:36, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I have added wordings and clarifications to Temple deities, Temple complex, pillars and Mantapa paragraphs, plus a citation.Dineshkannambadi 23:39, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

The conflict basically occured because we both tried to save at the same time. So the browser shows two versions of the article, the one I had before I started to work and the one I edited. I will check if I caught your edits first.Dineshkannambadi 23:41, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I do not get your paragraph move.Dineshkannambadi 23:42, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

New message

Sir, I am Ronnie McDowell's youngest son, Tyler. The information that I previously posted was a Bio that my sister, Kara McDowell Carden, wrote about my father, for his website update last year. I am trying to update his "article," and was hoping that you could help. I DO NOT WANT TO SHOW FAVORTISM! I just want to "spruce" it up a bit. I know that the fact of me being who I say I am is highly unlikely, I can prove it to you in any way! Lol. I just didn't want anyone getting angry with me, because I didn't do certain things right. So, I apologize for anything that I might have done.

Tyler Dean McDowell

P.S. There has just recently been an official MySpace created of my Dad's, I added the link, I hope that's okay?