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Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

This page has seen a large amount of flaming and angry comments. Please remember to always be civil in discussions.

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December 2005 – February 2007

Again and again you a showing your ignorance.What do you know about Srilankan problem to talk about it here?.Who said Singalese are lighter than the tamils?. You assumed that they are lighter because they speak an aryan language?. Singalese eventhough they speak a aryan language the generel population is darker than the general population of south India.This is a fact.Go and have a look if you want to.This is another classical exapmle of the people getting darker because of the geographical posoition.Here you can see the so called Aryans are darker than the So called dravidians!!!!.But darker or lighter singalese and tamils look the same. The problem in SL is NOT RACIAL it is just like your hutus and tutsis fighting each other.It is a ETHINICAL violance.It is Minority versus Majority!!!.Even during the civil war lots of tamils pretented as singales and vice versa to escape.They can only identify when they open their mouth.That is when they start talking!!!!.They speak 2 diffent languages thats all!!!!.Did'nt you see my earlier posts???.You are asking again and again why untouchables became darker from lighter.As I am telling for the 100th time that caste syatem was occupation based.may be people who were well off might have been able to choose good looking spouses! and where as the ones who did 'DIRTY' jobs could'nt do so!.You black americans look better than your counterparts in Africa.Why it is that?.You are living in better conditions than your counterparts in africa but both of you belong to the same race.If you want ask me again and agin scroll up the archive one and look into my earlier posts.--Vandh 01:20, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

If you must have this idiotic debate can you do so on a relevant page? Paul B 01:39, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry!.I got pissed off with this Bcr who always asks idiotic questions. Can you pls ask him to stop!.I dont know how many ignorant afroctrics I have to encounter in my Life!!!:(.yes I have had enough!!!--Vandh 01:47, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Brother Bcr I have given enough evidence to show that there is no color/race bias is Indian subcontinent but if you still feel otherwise then it is up to you!!!. Wish you all the best for a bright future.Looking at any person based on a racial term is very wrong thats what I feel at the end of the day.We are all but one race the Human race!!!.Anyway we have 'entertained' people like Paul B!!! --Vandh 03:00, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

You still need to give me evidence from a history book or article where is says that Dalits started out light-skinned and were dark because they were exposed to the sun. By the way, I am not your brother. And I want the evidence not from your mouths but from a book or article. And don't try to talk about Africa to avoid the question. If not, then you guys have officially not influenced me! --Bcr 01:59, 29 February 2007

What are you talking about millions of tamils get murdered. Actually there are only 3 millions and "only" 60000 to 80000 people died in the Sri Lankan ethnic war. Who told you that Singhalese are in generall lighter? Singhalese and Tamils look all the same. Most people wont be able to tell who is Singhalese and who is Tamil, even most Sri Lankans cant. India didnt support the SL Gov. They first even supported the LTTE. But after Rajiv Ghandi was killed they turned down their support. Dont talk BS if u dont know anything about that Issue. Your ignorance is bloody. No one of us ever said that Dalits were once light skinned. They may be a few shades "lighter". But that doesnt mean they were light skinned.Asian2duracell 20:47, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I thought that I should mention something. Not all conflicts are based on color like in the United States. Actually, all this color classification was started in the United States: Black for Africans, Whites for Anglos, Yellow for Asians (ie.Chinese), Brown for Hispanics, and Red for Native Americans. So, what color are people from Middle East, India, and Sri Lanka. I think that basing things on color, is baseless. Anyways, I do agree that Sinhalese and Tamils colors vary. I have seen both Sinhalese and Tamils in variou shades of Black, Brown, and light Brown. Wiki Raja 01:24, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

There are no people in "shades of Black" nowhere. MiddleEasterners and SouthAsians are usually called Browns. No matter what shade of brown they are.Asian2duracell 12:08, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

You're joking right? Browns? That was a term used during the Chicano movement in California during the 1960s up to now. I have seen people from North and East Africa much lighter in complexion than that of some of the Tamilians or Malayalees. What part of Jaffna are you from? Wiki Raja 16:22, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Well what shade is "Brown"? White people call themselve brown if they have a tan. But most say its still white. Some Blacks call themselve brown, others say ur black. I have seen some Somalis/Ethiopians who were kinda "light skinned" but still dark for my point of view (or a "tamil" point of view), well at least darker than me, and I'm kinda dark. But there are definitely some SouthIndans who are darker than EastAfricans. But most arent. Thats why we call EastAfricans Black and NorthAfrican Arab. Ur the first one I come across who call EastAfricans lighter skinned than Tamils/Malaiyalees. But on one thing ur right NorthAfricans are lighter skinned than SouthIndians its mostly true, with some exceptions. But u know Tamils/Malaiyalees vary a lot in term of skin colour. Some are nearly as dark as Blacks some are nearly as light as Greeks/Turks. And I never met a person before who called EastAfricans "Browns".

And no we arent talking about America. SouthAsians are Browns in allmost every country. The "Asians" in UK are called Browns. And even in ur America. hmmm I've never said I'm from Jaffna. What has that to do from which part I'm from?Asian2duracell 18:34, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm assuming you must be from Kayts due to the tone of your previous messages. Basically making noise and nonsense. Wiki Raja 21:04, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

U assume a lot right now. No arguments anymore. Kayts??? never heard of that. Everywhere Dravidians try to differentiate them from Blacks, there is a Wiki Raja, haha boi u lost ur authenticity long time ago. Aint u that guy who tried to claim that Me and Vandh were the same and totally failed. U even complained it to an admin.... Haha how sad must ur life be. How I know that?...hmm there is something called "googling names".

Haha U allways come with ur EastAfricans, hahhaha which fuckin Indian cares about EastAfricans..Asian2duracell 23:34, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Firstly I have always mentioned that not all the untouchables are Darker or all a lighter!.They are lighter and darker just like other people of India.I even gave an example with Dr Ambedkar(an lighter skinned Untouchable) and Srinivas Ramanujam (dark skinned Brhamin).Generally north Indian daliths are lighter than south Indian daliths.They dont look that Good because of the hard contions that they were set to for generatuions!!. Several studies have shown that discrimination is India is not Color based!. pls see

 http://www.uwf.edu/lgoel/documents/AMythofAryanInvasionsofIndia.pdf

and also pls see why untouchables became untouchables and the conclusion they have derived.see http://ambedkar.org/ambcd/39B.Untouchables%20who%20were%20they_why%20they%20became%20PART%20II.htm#a16

http://ambedkar.org/ambcd/39A.Untouchables%20who%20were%20they_why%20they%20became%20PART%20I.htm#a07 http://saxakali.com/southasia/broken.htm

http://ambedkar.org/ambcd/ and go to the who is shudra section. These are the evidence that I could give within a short span.Understand that when there are Donkeys and Zebras(same color u'r black and white!!!) there are Horses(Different colors) as well.World is not only America!!.Finally pls dont always think that 'Dark' skin will always gets suppressed by the 'Light' skin.since in some part of the world Whites enslaved the Blacks it doesnt mean every where in the world it has to be like that!. --Vandh 02:51, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I do agree that the whole world is not America. However, prejudism and discrimination is worldwide. That's how wars get started. Wiki Raja 04:21, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

yes prejudism and discrimination is worldwide.It can be any thing from color,gender,tribe,religion,language,territory etc etc.It is not 'COLOR' always!!!. Survival of the fittest is the norm of the world.whether you like it or not!.The mightier controlled the weak.man controlled woman to say so!. Bcr here you go pls read this http://www.countercurrents.org/dalit-ambedkar050703.htm this is about pre-untouchables written by the great untouchable Dr.Ambedkar.--Vandh 04:59, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

The mightier may control the weak, but when the weak is pushed to the limit, it becomes the other way around. By the way, what is with all the exclamation marks? Are you mad or something? Wiki Raja 05:59, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

To the anonymous user: what on earth is that supposed to mean? Certain people not looking that good because of the hard conditions that they were set to for generations? So, what you are saying is that people with Black or dark skin are ugly? What in your description would be a good looking person? Whoever thinks like that needs some real psychiatric help. Wiki Raja 21:08, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Firstly I am not an anonymous user.I have always signed.I can understand you. you main intention is to cause disruption!.You just jumbed between without knowing what was happening and talking irrelevent things!!You are calling me MAD because I simply used an exclmationmark.Now you are calling me psycopath!.What is wrong with you??.I certainly dont want to have ant conversation with you.I dont want to argue with you.I have explained to my maximun to the User Bcr.Finally people like Wikiraja Dont ASSUMEthings of your own.I never said blck is ugly!.Dont intepret it for me.Any person who lives in hard condition wont look that good.whether they are black,brown or yellow or white.Wikiraja pls have some decency in not to interupt(jump in without having any pripor knowledge).I dont know you are dravidian or not(so many pretend to be) but one thing There are idiots in every society.Dont reply me with a lenghthy mail I will never read it.FYI the argument is about whether Indians discriminate people based on color!.Untouchables were made untouchables because they possed Dark skin.This is the argument about.It is very indecent to jump in between without knowing anything.I know you provoke people and always complain them about.--Vandh 21:54, 1 March 2007 (UTC) discriminate people based on colo

Calm down Asian2duracell, oops, I mean Vandh. Wiki Raja 21:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Haha he still try it. Wasnt one IP from Canada and the other from Australia?(I cant remember exactly)HAHAHA. Well I'm in Europe if u want to know. I dont know where Vandh is from. Everything clear WikiMaliki? , ooohh sorry I mean Wiki Raja.Asian2duracell 23:44, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Another Black in Disguise!.Again you are trying your Provoking technique.HAHHAHAHAHHAH Why dont you try better technique?.--Vandh 22:25, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Inferiority complex

WikiRaja Inferiority complex is not a reason to claim Dravidian heritage. Take Pride in ur Black EastAfrican heritage. Ur degrading all decent Black people trough ur behaviour. Just because ur desperate, doesnt mean we will change our Identity from Indians into Africans. (A meaningless comment should be deleted if WikiRaja read it, by himself :p)Asian2duracell 23:52, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, Vandh, I mean Asian2duracell. Nothing to really brag about. After all it was the British who gave that name Indian and the Sinhala government who gave the name Sri Lanka. As for inferiority complex, one who goes by color for good or for bad suffers with inferiority complex. If one were to look at all your posts, it shows a lot of defensiveness when it comes to color. Especially black color or anything associated with Africa. Talk about inferiority complex. Your posts also show a lot of racism. I am surprised that you have not been kicked out for that. You tell others not to claim Dravidian heritage if they are not of it. Then you should not claim Indian nationality if you are from there. So, what part of Jaffna are you from? Wiki Raja 03:44, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. I never said anything based on skin clour. Never. Arguing that Tamils arent darker than EastAfricans is not colour based racism. Its a fact. And I never said anything bad against Black people or beeing black is something bad. ANd I never discriminated any person because of race or skin colour, or religion. Well I never claimed any nationality. I just claim to be Indian. Even Pakis are "Indians", anyone who has a indian ethnic background is Indian. U dont have to worry about where I'm from. I dont live in the subcontinent, so it doesnt matter anything. Just because u hate Sri Lankans. And I dont suit ur beliefs.

U havnt denied ur EastAfrican heritage....hmmm why?Asian2duracell 12:26, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

You still haven't told me what part of Jaffna you are from. Wiki Raja 20:47, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

What does Jaffna has anyting to do with it? Are you racist toward people from Jaffna or what?. But it isnt only Jaffna where Tamils live in Sri Lanka.Asian2duracell 23:59, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I am only asking what part of Jaffna you are from. I have high regard for Tamils from Jaffna. Jaffna is the historical cultural Tamil capital. The Tamils of Jaffna I know are a dignified society, unlike your behavior. Also, for some time now, you have been posing as someone from India, which I now consider not true. Therefore, how can anyone believe a thing you say on Misplaced Pages when you state untrue things about yourself. Wiki Raja

When did I say I'm from India? Or when did I say I'm from Sri Lanka. Never I jsut said I have been there few times. If we talk about the Dravidian Issue, I have to talk about India because in Sri Lanka or any other SouthAsian country it desont really matter. Asian2duracell 19:36, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

It is indeed has become an idiotic conversation.If you both want to argue where both of you are from then get out of wikipedia and argue Out!!!.This is not a place to know if Wikiraja is a black or white or a donkey or a monkey.Or duracel and me are the same.Get out with your idotic converstaion.--Vandh 03:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, Asian2duracell, I mean Vandh. Wiki Raja 04:34, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

India never supported the LTTE. India always supported the racist Sinhalese Government. Even if there isn't much a difference between Tamils and Sinhalese "physically", the Sinhalese Government is still racist towards the Tamils. No Tamil has ever been a president of Sri Lanka. Tamils were not resisting the Sinhalese Government at first. At first, they were peacefully protesting. However, the Sinhalese government kept persecuting the tamils. In the summer of 1983, the Sinhalese Government along with Sinhalese "gangs" murdered 100,000 Tamils. So, as a result, the LTTE got angry and have launched a war ever since then. Sure, the Tamils and Sinhalese certainly have all kinds of complexions. I think I may of exaggerated the physical differences, because Tamils and Sinhalese are very similar, but its just they are different by language and culture. Tamils have never protested for no reason. When the British granted Sri Lanka independance, the Sinhalese were automatically in power and made sinhalese the official language and Buddhism an official religion. Apparently, Tamils speak "tamil" and Tamils are hindus, so the Sinhalese Government was, have been, and will forever be racist. By the way, I said I want evidence from a "book" not a biased article that states that most dalits started out light-skinned and became darker because of exposure to the sun. I'm not saying that all untouchables or dalits are dark, but most are. Some untouchables have been able to rise above and become doctors and lawyers. And nowadays, some people who are light are untouchables too. But most are dark, so they started out like that. Therefore, I want to know the strong evidence for the fact. The articles above are not enough. --Bcr 8:59, March 2 2007

Yes you are right about the Srilankan peoblem in certain ways.But it was Indidra Gandhi the then prime minister of India who gave the full support for the LTTE at the start.Everything is politically motivated at the interest of the Govermentent or the country.It certainly has nothing to do with Color:).Anyway I am an Indian who speaks tamil and I think Asia2duracell and Wikiraja are Srilankan tamils so they may be able to answer you more.About the Untouchables I ceratinly gave you a Valid info not a biased one since it was from an Untouchable who has fought for the untouchable that is by Dr Ambedkar.He has seriously done some research on it.Will provide more later.Again I repeat there are dark skinned Upper caste people too.there are light skinned lowercastes too.This is a fact.Will come back to you soon.--Vandh 06:57, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Dr Ambedkar what? I looked in those articles that you provdided and I still don't see any evidence for the idea that dalits started out light-skinned and were dark because they were exposed to the hot sun. I want evidence from a "history book." And don't tell me that those articles are valid. I don't see the evidence in them. These articles don't even have any proposed author or source. I want evidence from a "book!" --Bcr 7:33, March 3 2007

The idea that Dalits were light skinned at one time and stayed out in the sun to get dark is a load of nationalistic childish POV. How pathetic. Wiki Raja 04:09, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Noone ever said Dalits started "light" skinned and became darker. Dont misinterpret things have been said. I said they might had a LIGHTER skin colour, than they have now. But that could be true for any Indian not just Dalits. Lighter doesnt mean lightskinned or even white. The Dalits in NorthIndia are in general slightly lighter than those of SouthIndia. But thats also true for the "Castepeople". Saying Dalits are of a different Race than Caste people, even thug they look the same is much more immature and ridiculous.Asian2duracell 15:23, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh get out of here! You always want to have the last word. Who said that Dalits are a different race from caste people. Everything Vandh Duracell say is nonsense. Look, as I have said, "most", not "all" of the dalits and untouchables have a dark complexion. I'm not implying that their dark complexion means that they are african or of a different race. I'm just saying that most have a dark complexion. They are in the same race with indians "offcourse", but its just that they happen to mostly have a darker complexion....THAT's ALL. Some are light-skinned, but most have a dark complexion. Africans and blacks have all kinds of complexions, but that does not mean that Beyonce isn't black. I'm not saying that Dalits or untouchables are not INDIAN. I'm saying that most of them happen to have a different complexion that is darker, and since most most are dark anyway, the caste system is discrimination. --Bcr 12:33, March 4 2007

Who said that Dalits are a different race from caste people.....u claimed Untouchable and Tribals to be of african origin (recently though). Whats ur point? most Indians also have a dark complexion. Not just Dalits.

At one time u say something, days later u claim something completly different, what happened?Asian2duracell 21:00, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I said that "most" untouchables and dalits are of african origin because they are close "descendants" from Africa. This does not mean that I said they are african directly, I just think that they are black because they share a similar skin color with people in Africa. However, you and Vandh kept twisting the fact around as if I am saying that they are african in order to avoid the truth. I said that in my opinion, I define color by skin complexion, not by racial origin. When I said that most dalits are black, I said that this was due to their skin complexion. I never said they were black because they are african. I just see them as black because of skin complexion. You guys happen to believe that black means african, but I don't. I think that anybody could be black depending on how dark they are. The Aborigines of Australia are black. Does that mean that they are african. No! They just happen to have a skin complexion "similar" to africans, because they are "descended" from them. Otherwise, how would they have the dark complexion? By hot sun for a few thousand years? No! Obviously, dravidians, including dalits and untouchables would be of african origin because most have a dark complexion. Having an origin does not mean you are directly what the origin is. The white americans are of European origin. Does that mean that they are European? No. They just happen to be descendants of Europeans so they are white just like them. You guys need to read some books! As it says in nearly every history book relating to the origin of human beings, the first human beings came from Africa and migrated to other regions of the world. By migrating to other regions, they stopped in certain places in Asia such as India and Australia. Others took longer trips and migrated to Europe and the America. The people in Asia who have darker skin colors such as the Aborigines or some Dravidians are obviously more closely related to the early humans from Africa than Europeans. That's why they have skin color more closely related or "similar" to Africans! Come on, you know what I am talking about! Stop trying to bite every statement I make and turn it into nonsense. You said that Dravidians are mediterranean caucasiod so why would I care what you think I said anyway, you're probably in 1st grade. You are right, I did say that dravidians who were the early people of India including untouchables and tribals were of African origin, meaning that they are "descendants" of them. I wasn't saying that they are "directly" African. You talk as if I said that all Dravidians moved to India from Africa last year, but it was 500,000 years ago. So over time, the Dravidians would change, but they still originate or descend from Africa. Don't you know what origin means. --Bcr 7:53, March 4 2007

This is the last time I will explain what I mean about the black issue. I already said that I base my own opinion on color on skin complexion. You guys keep trying to contradict everything I say and turn it into something it isn't. I said that since some Dravidians have a dark complexion, than they ought to be descended from Africans. I didn't say they are African directly. You guys make this foolish argument that Indians have always been the same and that the darker skinned dalits inherited dark skin. That's rediculous. The truth is that the early people of India were dark-skinned dravidians that were direct descendants from Africa. If they were'nt descedants from Africa, then how would they have a dark complexion? Then, the lighter-skinned Ayrans invaded in 1500 B.C. and subjected some of the Dravidians. Some dravidians resisted and became tribals. Others fled south to southern India, while others were forced into the bottom of the caste system as untouchables. That is the truth kids. I still want evidence from a historical book that says that Dalits started out light-skinned and became darker because they were exposed to the hot sun. You guys still haven't given any evidence for that and you 2 have not proven anything or made any sense. I am right after all! --Bcr 7:53, March 4 2007

Are u frickin serious? Every fuckin human has his origin in Africa. Not just Dravidians... The whitest White man is of African origin. Yes American Whites are European, racially. Europe is as much apart as India is. Dont talk Bullshit. People moved to the MiddleEast than to CentralAsia, and then to India respectively to Europe. Answer one question, how did white people get white? when their ancestor were dark? What are you talking about Drvidians came to India 500,000 years ago???? Dravidians came 6000-3500 B.C not earlier. Dravidians are not the original people of India get it. I'm Dravidian and even I recognize that, so whats ur problem. The Munda people are the Natives to India. I never said Dravidians were light skinned. Never. Go read about the Dravidians on the Dravidian article. Aryans are not white, get it. Its the second fact u dont understand. "Aryans" are brown. I dont fuckin care how u define people.Noone really cares about ur ridiculous definition. But most people define people by their culture and Race. Not skin colour. I dont want to destroy ur dreams but, Dravidians are least related to Africans. Most to East-, an WestAsians. u can read that on the Dravidian page aswell. Do u think I take time to invent everything. Stop saying again and again Dravidians are of African origin. Every fuckin human on this planet is. Do you think we dont know that.Asian2duracell 19:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC) that.