Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 15:44, 21 March 2005

Makarov.

Hi, Irpen! Thanks much for creating the article on Admiral Makarov. I was going to do it for, well, almost a year now, but never got to it. Hopefully we'll develop it into something more than a stub it currently is. Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 21:03, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

Issues on transliteration from Cyrillic into Latin.

One of the remarks I wanted to make is in regards to the transliteration of "Великий князь". As you undoubtedly know, there are millions of ways to transliterate any given Russian word. What you may not be aware of, is that we are trying to make sure that all Russian words used in Misplaced Pages conform to the same transliteration standard, which is described in this article. I am not saying this is the "final final" version everybody must stick to (and indeed, there is a discussion going on on its talk page trying to work out some details), nor I am saying that this is the only correct version in the whole world. It is, however, only logical to at least try using one transliteration system across all of Misplaced Pages to maintain consistency.

As per the articles guidelines, "великий князь" would be transliterated as "veliky knyaz" (see also knyaz).

Let me know if you have questions, and I am looking forward to working with you in future!—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 21:03, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your compliments. I don't remember much more about Admiral Makarov than what I wrote in the stub. I agree with the need of consistency in transliteration. I think, however, that when some Russian term is already established in English, the established transliteration should take precedence of the letter by letter rule. My impression (not confirmed though a thorough search though) is that Kniaz iz a more common English usage of the Russian word Князь. However, the google counts for kniaz and knyaz are close enough, so my impression is rather subjective. Also, the article you refered me to gives two choices for transliteration of Великий as both Velikiy or Veliky. The former term seems better to me, but again this is rather subjective. What do you think? I would be happy to abide with a consensus decision in the future. Regards, Irpen 21:31, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

Well, I can't force you use one convention over another, especially in cases which are so borderline, although consistency is something I am really trying to maintain (some would even say "at all costs" , although I tend to disagree:)). As far as google goes, it is fairly accurate at identifying "most common usage", and for cases like this one, I myself prefer the variant that conforms to the transliteration standards already in use in Misplaced Pages (which in this case is "knyaz").

Anyway, you can always voice your opinion at the Talk:Transliteration of Russian into English page to see what kind of responses you'll get, although you'll probably have to read through the whole discussion thread first (which, for one thing, is not short) to not miss anything. This is especially true in regards to using "-iy" or "-y" for "-ий". For some reason, "-y" for "-ый" was easily accepted by almost everyone, but there are still some lingering doubts about using "-y" for "-ий" (I, as you might have guessed, prefer "-y" for just the same old reason—consistency).

Take care!—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 21:47, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

Hi Ezhiki, I did a little searching myself on this issue. I found that I was wrong and the usage of knyaz prevails over kniaz in English media. I used LexisNexis search of all major English language media over last 24 months. So, I will use knyaz from now on and will correct kniaz for knyaz on pages I will be editing (only if I will have other reasons to edit a page, won't do it only to change i for y). I still think that -iy should be used rather than -y in velikiy becuase it is better to reflect the difference between phonetic pronunciation of the ending in, say, krasny and velikiy. Thanks for bringing this matter to my attention. Irpen 18:44, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

Hi, Irpen! Thanks for taking time to check on this. I vaguely remember that someone did a similar check in the past (I don't remember the details, though), and that's how we started to use "ya", "yo", "yu" over "ia", "io", "iu" in the first place. Anyway, I appreciate your effort.

As for your user talk page history, alas, not even admins can alter that (I assume that's because it would have been all too easy for rogue admins to abuse this process, and it would be a great temptation to skew the history to one's favor). Whatever shows up in the history, stays there. Most of the good-natured Wikipedians take pride in their user pages being vandalized—it usually means that one either is an active vandal-fighter, or someone who sticks to NPOV in very heated debates.

Thanks again for your time and comments. Feel free to drop me a message/wikimail any time you want to discuss anything.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 19:25, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

My pleasure! I think some way should exist to remove at least the vulgar, foul language or pornographic graffiti from the history (I don't mean to remove messages from short-tempered wikifolks who are not always polite in expressing their disagreement with edits). Well, let it stay for now :). Personally, I don't find such images, even when rather disgusting, to be disturbing. Cheers, Irpen 19:55, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

Arsenal Kyiv

Hi Irpen. I dropped by to tell you that I disagree with one of your edits fiercely. FC Arsenal Kyiv is a contemporary club of independent Ukraine. Not to mention that it is free to name itself however they decide. Thus, you've gone too far in your Kiev edits. Don't cross the line of fighting Ukrainian language. So far, I've been tolerating and sometimes supporting your edits regarding you a cooperative discussing Wikifellow. It would be unpleasant changing my opinion on you. Best wishes, AlexPU

Replied at User_talk:AlexPU#Arsenal. Irpen 22:42, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

Russia

I don't know how the text doublicated. I had some "wikipedia is busy" message and reloaded. thanks for informing me and for reverting. I put the link again. Ben (talk) 15:44, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)