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Revision as of 16:41, 29 January 2023 editVanamonde93 (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Checkusers, Oversighters, Administrators80,260 edits →"Caused by" parameter: ReplyTag: Reply← Previous edit Revision as of 00:03, 28 February 2023 edit undoAnomieBOT (talk | contribs)Bots6,559,276 edits Adding/updating {{OnThisDay}} for 2023-02-27. Errors? User:AnomieBOT/shutoff/OnThisDayTaggerNext edit →
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The article casts numerous and repeated aspersions alleging involvement of then Gujarat CM Shri Narendra Modi into the unfortunate riots. It also suspects the findings of Supreme Court appointed SIT, which acquitted Shri Modi of all such charges. However, conspicuously the article fails to mention anywhere that the subject SIT report acquitting Shri Modi of any wrongdoing has been accepted by three layers of Indian Judiciary, the latest being Supreme Court in June 2022. The highest court has also observed that activists like Smt Teesta Sheetalvad and some of her accomplishes tried to keep the matter alive and presented tutored witnesses during the SIT proceedings. A legal investigation into the role of all such persons has been initiated by Gujarat ATS after the subject SC verdict. Puru0506 (talk) 19:32, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

"Caused by" parameter

@D4iNa4: The talk page section you linked to does not in any way establish consensus for this parameter; nor do the sources provided there actually support it. We have sourced text in the lead and the body saying that the causes of the riots were complex (to say the least). Please demonstrate that this text is WP:DUE (not just verifiable). Pinging @RegentsPark, Kautilya3, El cid, el campeador, and Capitals00: as the other participants in that discussion (not pinging Sdmarathe, as he is banned from interacting with me and therefore cannot participate directly in this discussion). Vanamonde (Talk) 11:40, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

I added additional causes mentioned in the lead. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 14:40, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
That's now more complete, and also more confusing. The Godhra burning is generally acknowledged as a trigger, but not a root cause. State terrorism and ethnic cleansing are terms used for the riots themselves; sources say "the riots were an example of ethnic cleansing", not "the riots were caused by ethnic cleansing". It's just too complex to convey in three words in the infobox; hence my contention that it should just be removed. Vanamonde (Talk) 16:08, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
@Vanamonde93: It does seem "complex" and one reason is indeed not enough for a infobox. Even in 2017, we had 1 more option that we should get rid of the infobox but 5 years have passed and there has been no other controversy with the infobox. I agree that this new addition is even more confusing because "state terrorism" (very minority view) and "ethnic cleansing" (one of the common view) is the classification of the riot than the "cause". I agree that this parameter can be blanked again. D4iNa4 (talk) 07:49, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Kautilya, I trust that's okay with you? Vanamonde (Talk) 07:51, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
I don't think the other two reasons - State terrorism & Ethnic cleansing - should be listed, as they have not been proven. We should stick to findings instead of some individual's opinion. Changes like this would make Misplaced Pages look like an opinion piece. Aniruddh 20:46, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages is written based on reliable sources, and those sources do not agree that Godhra was the sole reason for the scale of violence that ensued.
In response to Vanamonde93's earlier query, I think omiting the field is not a good idea, because somebody will come and add it again. It is easy enough to find good sources that say that Godhra caused it. But the matter doesn't end there. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:00, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
Sorry, I still don't like it. The parameter has no meaning here. It is sociological nonsense; things don't have singular causes. The riots were described as ethnic cleansing; how are they caused by ethnic cleansing? Entire book chapters and journal articles have been written about the genesis of this violence. We can't summarize it in three words. Vanamonde (Talk) 21:22, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
Again, including some people's opinions as "caused by" sounds weird. That's not a fact; that's just an individual's opinion. Despite they were taken from a reliable source, they remain opinions of some individuals. Using them as a fact inside the infobox doesn't sound good. Aniruddh 13:55, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
How are is the link to the Godhra incident any less one person's opinion? Vanamonde (Talk) 16:41, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

SIT ruling

The S.I.T as well as the supreme court have ruled that Modi was not responsible for the riots, and found no 'material evidence' against him and the other officials in the State. (1, 2, 3, 4, 5). So how is it appropriate to say: 'His administration has been considered complicit in the 2002 Gujarat riots' in the lead, when the apex court has given a clean chit? 223.190.86.17 (talk) 17:49, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Our article is written based on what reliable sources say, and the statement in question has a lot of support among reliable sources. Please note that the SIT investigation was largely into Modi himself, and its statement that there was insufficient evidence against him is included in the appropriate places. Please also read WP:DUE. Vanamonde (Talk) 15:49, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
Note that the IP user has copied my comments made several months back from another page. Kpddg 12:11, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

In Popular Culture

Another item to add in popular culture, or perhaps have it's own section is BBC's "The Modi Question" series released in 2022 which has been heavily criticized by the Modi government and subsequently censored. At the moment, a copy of the series can be found uploaded by an unofficial source on Vimeo 68.69.212.180 (talk) 13:49, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

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