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My Welcome Message 2006

Expatriates

I just marked expatriate as unreferenced. So much for using it as a reference. Dr. Submillimeter 21:26, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I thought you might. It's a pity that Misplaced Pages editors produce such shoddy work. "A person who lives outside their native country" is what the Concise Oxford Dict says, which suits the present purpose perfectly. (I was at IC.) roundhouse 21:56, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Interesting feedback. I have to consider your comments. Do note that the "/" character may technically be placed in category names; I have done this a couple of times through WP:CFD discussions. However, I could understand that the word "and" would be preferable. (Also, I just marked Henrietta, Ohio as unreferenced.) Dr. Submillimeter 08:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I am a mathematician so to me 'and' means intersection; 'or' means union; I concede that the man in the street understands something else (cf expatriate). (There is an extensive body of Pure Maths called 'Category Theory', a generalisation of Set Theory - I have wondered if these categories were based on this but life is too short to investigate everything.) If "/" is OK then that seems a reasonable compromise. If these are to be in some way time-proof then how do we treat Alexander the Great, or Napoleon? Livingstone? (I have removed all cfds from my watchlist, on the 'life is too short' premise - feel free to draw my attention to individual debates. Actually I think PWs main coherent creation, UM Bishops by Area, was entirely defensible, having lots of precedents.) roundhouse 15:14, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Pastorwayne

I left a comment on User:Pastorwayne and his rapid category creation at WP:ANI. The comment asks for Pastorwayne to be regulated regarding category creation. Feel free to comment. Dr. Submillimeter 22:20, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Pastorwayne is now creating categories using a different method. Check his 3 January 2007 edits to Beverly Waugh. He has recreated Category:Christian editors using a method described in WP:CAT, which describes adding a category as a red link to an article before creating the category itself. Moreover, since this category was renamed on 2006 December 8, the recreation of this category is disruptive editing. Please ensure that some type of definitive action is taken. Dr. Submillimeter 15:38, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I had noticed that (but not the previous history). There is also Category:YMCA people with 3 members. (I think Category:YMCA people would be OK, in fact.) roundhouse 15:57, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Pastorwayne may be attempting to game the system. This is still disruptive. Please add additional comments at WP:ANI if you think it is appropriate. Dr. Submillimeter 16:05, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I think the case at ANI has been made ... I await developments with interest. roundhouse 16:39, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Red cat creations by Pastorwayne

You might want to presume good faith and ASK what these are for. Now that I have been told that these ARE in fact, cats (even though when you click on them wikipedia says they do NOT exist, and asks if you want to CREATE them, nor do they have to be CfD'ed to be REMOVED-- which says to ME at least they are NOT in fact cats, at least not yet, just "suggested" cats -- which was my only intention, in fact), no longer am I doing that. I was doing that only as a sort of "trial-balloon." To see if a cat was needed. I was told I should enter into discussions about such cats. That's what I was trying to do. But WHERE do such discussions take place? I still haven't found anywhere. No, I am NOT trying to be "disruptive."

But tell me: what REAL "disruption" does ANY of my cat creation actually create? My guess is very few people care about the articles I am writing and categorizing anyway. So how is it disrupting to so few people? All this talk of "cat clutter." But WHOM does it clutter? Other than those of you who seem so very ANXIOUS to get rid of cats you disagree with? Thanks. Pastorwayne 11:56, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, so why did you redlink to a deleted/renamed category? (You made this edit yesterday adding a redlink to Category:Christian editors and a bluelink to Category:Editors of Christian works; but the former was renamed to the latter in Category:Editors of Christian works on 8 Dec). You will perhaps concede that it might look as if you wish to recreate the deleted category.

You have been told (yesterday) where such discussions take place, by jc37. These discussions take place daily in cfd; we're discussing them now; you have been discussing these things with BHG on your (and her) talk page since April. Do you have no recollection of this? (See eg BHG talk; or here.)

It's not the case that your cats only affect U M Bishops - something like Category:Immigrants (one of yours) has very wide ramifications. Your 'Former X' cats have even been labelled opprobrious (contentious, certainly). Just because a cat survives doesn't mean it is a good idea (eg Category:Terrorists survives).

And do you really think Category:People from Henrietta, Ohio is likely to flourish? It is not opprobrious, and does not ramify, but Henrietta, Ohio seems scarcely to exist, unless Ohio has a 2nd more impressive Henrietta ... - roundhouse 15:56, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Wayne William Scott

Hi Pc1dmn, thanks for your note on my talk page. I've made an AfD nom. for the article you mentioned. Regards, Accurizer 15:44, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Temporary flat category solution?

What do you think about the temporary solution I've effected for Category:Anti-communists to enable people to bring up a flat-view if they want it? (Click on the link on the category page). It has to be manually updated, which is not workable in the long run, but it does allow the two approaches to be contrasted. Carcharoth 17:14, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Goodness, that's fantastic - I shall clearly have to make more fuss about aspects of Misplaced Pages that I find irritating. That would transform categories as far as I am concerned. (The recent conversation between you and X in catdiffuse is very good - one occasionally feels that progress has been made.) roundhouse 19:55, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Is putting this very helpful facility on a given category the work of a few moments, or several hours? And would (or could) it spot recently added members? (Eg could it sort by 'date added to cat'?)

Also, I have had an idea re potential vandalism - how do I discuss this without saying what it is 'in public'? roundhouse 09:03, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Taking your questions one by one: (1) It takes a few minutes to do for smallish categories (several hundred members). For categories with a lot of depth below them, it is not practical. Also, unless I lay out the list-generating method in detail, I'm probably the only one doing it at the moment. (2) It is not automated and has to be manually updated. It probably could be automated, but the best option would be to allow an interface where a user can display all the articles in a category and its subcategories. This is probably already available through the CategoryTree extension tool that is already integrated here on the English language wikipedia. In particular this comment. I'll investigate further. (3) Depends how destructive the vandalism would be. Is it related to what we were talking about? If so, I'd be interested, but don't have e-mail enabled. If it is something completely different, find an admin or user you trust who has e-mail enabled, and e-mail them. You could post to WP:AN to find an admin who has the time to discuss it with you. Hope this helps. Carcharoth 09:54, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

With respect to (3), I offer my services as an "admin you trust"! Seriously, I control a category bot, so I'd be interested to know what your idea is, and we can investigate whether it's a serious risk. Email me - although I am {{busy}} just now so I may not get around to dealing with it straight away. --RobertG ♬ talk 14:23, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I found meta:DynamicPageList, which does exactly what I was trying to do, but better. It seems to be only installed on Wikinews, but I'll try and remember to ask around. Carcharoth 10:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Looking more closely, not exactly, but very promising. See also meta:DynamicPageList2. Carcharoth 10:23, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I probably could understand these things, but I tired some years back of learning techniques with a half-life of about 6 months (punched cards, fortran, pascal, cobol, hypercard, apple-script). I do have email enabled, and it is to do with categories, tho' not immediately conected with views (irritating rather than destructive). A category you might like to try the flat view on is Samuel Wantman's favourite, which includes Bridges of New York (as I would be interested in his reaction). (I can see that meta:DynamicPageList2 looks very useful - I have no problem with logical(and/or) etc, a concept of eternal utility.) -- roundhouse 12:46, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Pastorwayne category resolution

It is beginning to look like several of us have now been able to sort through most of Pastorwayne's categories (or at least the ones that were not badly enmeshed into the Misplaced Pages infrastructure like the Missionary categories). One of his most confusing category schemes was for missionaries in Angola; I think he created four or five categories for one person. I am also happier that Pastorwayne is focusing on writing about bishops instead of creating a jumbled and confused category scheme. The articles have a much more positive impact and actually communicate useful information to people; the categories were almost beginning to have a negative impact.

Pastorwayne is also behaving better now. I almost have the sense that he would listen instead of argue if I talked to him. However, I worry that he will regress. After all, he has written his autobiography at least twice despite repeated warnings. Nonetheless, after tying up a few loose ends at WP:CFD and finishing a few other things with his categories, I am ready to go do other things.

One thing that I did notice that is worth doing: Pastorwayne tends to leave several stub boxes within articles even after he has written a few paragraphs on his subjects. It is worthwhile to go through and remove the stub boxes that he leaves behind. It demonstrates the potential positive impact that he can have. Dr. Submillimeter 23:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree on all points. He has a talent for articles - let others categorise them. (These cfds are quite engrossing. I can now find Moravia on a map and give you at least 3 meanings for Moravian.) I don't suppose you come across Prof Cash at IC (Numerical analysis) or Roxburgh at QMC - astrophysics? roundhouse 01:21, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Further the creation of non-existent red-linked but populated categories is not new, see eg this diff. roundhouse 10:15, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I too have learned more about Methodism than I really cared to learn from working on these categories. I would rather populate a few astronomy categories myself. (I badly want to fix some categories related to barred spiral galaxies, but I need to summon up the will to gather a couple-dozen links to astronomy journal articles to do it.)

I have not met the people that you mentioned. People here just do not socialize much, as is typical for London. (I will probably meet the astrophysics person at some point.) Dr. Submillimeter 16:52, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

The discussions have at least clarified my own ideas re cats and also how best to prevail in cfds (or avoid them). I think the precise dictionary definition of expatriate was the way to go (ie state it first). (It's in Wiktionary - http://en.wiktionary.org/expatriate - although I would prefer 'country of birth', which is clearer). 'Native of' is another entirely clear formulation. (Eg where are you 'from'?) That said I doubt if there will be any consensus however it is presented. Could you look at my suggestion on BHG's page re cats for these bishops, before receding into barred spiral galaxies? (I would suggest as essential - 'Cat former barred spiral galaxies'.) roundhouse 09:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The situation with barred galaxies is much different. You will see when I write the rename nomination. (The issue is with the poorly-chosen layman's term for SAB galaxies.) Dr. Submillimeter 12:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Missionary bishops

Hi roundhouse, I'm guess that like me your head is starting to hurt a bit with all the methodist categories ... but I just wanted to say that I don't think that your latest suggestion about the missionary bishops at is actually workable. I have replied at Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 January 7#Category:Missionary_Bishops_of_the_United_Methodist_Church:the CFD discussion, and you might like to take a look. --BrownHairedGirl 13:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I think you might actually be interested in Methodism. My idea roughly speaking is to have a very transparent system where if the text says he is an X Bishop of Y then he goes into cat X Bishops of Y (so anyone can look at the text and see that the categorisation is correct, without having a clue about the UM Church). Alumni of the genessees whatevers follows the same line. I was looking at Evangelical United Brethren Church which has the quote "the merger of the Evangelical Association with the Church of the United Brethren in Christ (not to be confused with the current Church of the United Brethren in Christ)." There is indeed potential for confusion. This is why I think we have to have years appended to the cats. (The word United seems unfortunate in these contexts.) roundhouse 14:38, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• For what it's worth, for a while there were 2 "Church of the United Brethren in Christ," one which accepted the new constitution in the late 1800's, and one (led by Bishop Milton Wright, father of the Wright Brothers) which did not. The former one eventually united with the Evangelical Association (which by then had suffered its own division and reunion, ultimately being called The Evangelical Church) in 1946 to form the Evangelical United Brethren Church. This church then merged with the Methodists in 1968 to form the United Methodist Church. Yes, a bit of a misnomer to use the word "United" so often. But it was used only as two or more groups WERE united (or reunited). And yes, I am sure, more than you ever wanted to know! Pastorwayne 16:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• I must say that this will be a trove of info for anyone who does wish to research the UM church USA. I'm still waiting to see how Muzorewa fits in. roundhouse 16:20, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• http://www.dacb.org/stories/zimbabwe/muzorewa_abel.html says that Abel Muzorewa succeeded Ralph Edward Dodge as Bishop in 1968, ie he (AM) was a 'proper' UM Bishop. roundhouse 16:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Samuel Luckey

Thanks for the link! Pastorwayne 15:57, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Missionary categories

Hi roundhouse, I would welcome your thoughts at Category talk:Missionaries#Restructuring_and_cleanup. (I am notifying several people who have participated in recent related CFDs)--BrownHairedGirl 11:48, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Alphabetical list for Category:Missionaries

Thoughts and comments on the process left here. Results of the category flattening (ie. producing a list of all the articles in a category and its subcategories) can be seen at Category:Missionaries. The list itself is here. Normal provisios apply - this list is only a snapshot of the categories at the time it was compiled. Further additions and removals to the categories will not be on that list. Carcharoth 03:05, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

PW at it again :(

Thanks for your message: see reply at User talk:BrownHairedGirl#PW. --BrownHairedGirl 15:36, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Pastorwayne

First, I looked at John Wesley Lord. A Google search turned up quite a bit of interesting information on him, so I voted to keep the article. See the AfD page for more details on my keep vote. The problem is that Pastorwayne only states facts about the person that were of little historical relevance while failing to ignore the person's notable commentaries and actions. I refer to Pastorwayne's approach as "the relentless mentioning of facts". It makes history boring. Pastorwayne needs to learn to write better.

Second, you may be interested in Category:Linguists of Biblical languages, another Pastorwayne category. I have nominated it for deletion. It does not even seem that the people in the category are linguists. Dr. Submillimeter 09:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

That's fine. I applaud a reasoned defence and agree that PW is not his best defendant. There's Samuel Heistand as well. And Category:Former Sikhs which lasted less than 24 hours (see this). And have a look at John Louis Nuelsen for a profusion of expat cats. -- roundhouse 10:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I am neutral on whether Samuel Heistand is kept. The person certainly seems non-notable except for the fact that he was a bishop. Pastorwayne should learn about the concept of notability. Dr. Submillimeter 11:14, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

sp (or was it Canadian?)

Maybe it was sarcastic? Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 19:49, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Good discussion - I am considering siding with you, whilst reflecting on the talk page of yoghurt. Or it might be yogurt by now. -- roundhouse 20:09, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

The alternative meaning for yoghurt is pure class, probably one of the most random and one of the best... Spaceballs, classic. To satisfy Lewisskinner's wish to have a plan of Bramall Lane football ground on the BL article, I have created a plan which does not feature stolen content, it's grey, oh yes very grey, but doesn't feature on Misplaced Pages illegally: Commons:Image:Bramall Lane football ground - plan.png. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 20:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Excellent (it was actually my request of LS) - would it be asking too much to have the pitch marked? (Ie with goals at the Bramall Lane end and the Kop end?) -- roundhouse 20:40, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I sure can. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 22:57, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I know you wanted the goal cages.. but I think I might have done just as well with the whole lines, how's it now ? Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 23:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Perfect. -- roundhouse 23:21, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

To brighten up the whole thing I can change the colour of the stands to Blades red, but that's optional really. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 23:46, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Red would be even better. -- roundhouse 11:02, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

That's done for you. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 11:46, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Millennium Square (Sheffield)

Many thanks for a) noticing the page and b) correcting my horrific spelling! I really ought to use a spell-checker. Any thoughts on other Sheffield Squares we ought to add? L.J.Skinner 16:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I created Howard Street (Sheffield) including Hallam Square which In my opinion does not require an article, the square is neither a thoroughfare nor a place called by its name (it is after all just a plavement) and is not notable. I have however taken care to descrive the square in the article. Millenium Square is equally as un-notable to be completely fair as all its description duplicate those of Saint Paul's/Peace Gardens. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 17:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Firefox has an add-on spellchecker which catches most typos very easily (and firefox is less blighted by pop-ups than ie, pop-ups which refuse to be blocked that is). I was going to suggest Paradise Square but it's there already. (I wasn't aware of either Hallam or Millennium Squares, so I am enlightened.) -- roundhouse 18:49, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Vandal fighting

Hello, Roundhouse0. Thank you for reverting vandalism to Misplaced Pages. After you revert, I would recommend also warning the users whose edits you revert on their talk pages with an appropriate template or custom message. This will serve to direct new users towards the sandbox, educate them about Misplaced Pages, and a stern warning to a vandal may prevent him or her from vandalizing again. Thanks! --Kralizec! (talk) 02:07, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, Kralizec. I could of course just leave the vandalism in place, if you would prefer that. I am not particularly keen on the officious side of Misplaced Pages. -- roundhouse 08:56, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

PC

- Kittybrewster 22:17, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

SUFC

I'm guttud for the Blades. Sheffield United are a proper club with great supporters, a good stadium, and an entertaining manager. I'm sad to see you go. About the edit, yeah I realized just after I reverted for the second time what I had done by accident (got rid of the protection). Sorry about that. - Tocino 13, May 2007