Talk:Emperor of India: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 12:13, 12 June 2023 editPadFoot2008 (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users9,681 edits →No "Indian Empire": ReplyTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Advanced mobile edit Reply ← Previous edit		Revision as of 08:00, 13 June 2023 edit undoCelia Homeford (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Page movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers23,636 edits →No "Indian Empire"Next edit →
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	::Also, India didn't ''become'' India in 1947, rather, it ''remained'' India in 1947. In 1947, India was granted independence and not "created".		::Also, India didn't ''become'' India in 1947, rather, it ''remained'' India in 1947. In 1947, India was granted independence and not "created".
	::And, regarding the proclamation of the Indian Empire, if you'd check proclamations of other "empires" like Russia and Germany, they too were never proclaimed. Rather, on that particular day, the monarch was proclaimed as the Emperor of India, Emperor of All Russias and German Emperor respectively. Also, the Indian Empire was much different from the British Empire. The British Empire was a colonial empire comprising the United Kingdom, the Indian Empire, Dominion of Canada, and other colonies, similar to French colonial empire and German colonial (note the term "colonial") while the Indian Empire was the name of a state (though, non-sovereign) similar to Russian Empire and German Empire. As for official-ness of the term, I'd prefer not to debate much about it as I'm not arguing for the inclusion of "Indian Empire", but if you'd see, in the modern day Republic of India, no legislation or even the Constitution ever used the term "Republic of India", rather only used "India" or "the Union". However, the Indian passport uses the term "Republic of India" up front on its blue cover. Similarly, in the Indian Empire too, neither Indian legislation nor British legislation used the term "Indian Empire" or "Empire of India", but rather used "India". But the British Indian passport, used the term "Indian Empire" up front on its blue cover and "Empire of India" on its front page. Sources – , , , . A quick google search of will show you many more sources. ] (]) 12:13, 12 June 2023 (UTC)		::And, regarding the proclamation of the Indian Empire, if you'd check proclamations of other "empires" like Russia and Germany, they too were never proclaimed. Rather, on that particular day, the monarch was proclaimed as the Emperor of India, Emperor of All Russias and German Emperor respectively. Also, the Indian Empire was much different from the British Empire. The British Empire was a colonial empire comprising the United Kingdom, the Indian Empire, Dominion of Canada, and other colonies, similar to French colonial empire and German colonial (note the term "colonial") while the Indian Empire was the name of a state (though, non-sovereign) similar to Russian Empire and German Empire. As for official-ness of the term, I'd prefer not to debate much about it as I'm not arguing for the inclusion of "Indian Empire", but if you'd see, in the modern day Republic of India, no legislation or even the Constitution ever used the term "Republic of India", rather only used "India" or "the Union". However, the Indian passport uses the term "Republic of India" up front on its blue cover. Similarly, in the Indian Empire too, neither Indian legislation nor British legislation used the term "Indian Empire" or "Empire of India", but rather used "India". But the British Indian passport, used the term "Indian Empire" up front on its blue cover and "Empire of India" on its front page. Sources – , , , . A quick google search of will show you many more sources. ] (]) 12:13, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
			:::It's no use calling the state before and after the partition the same thing. That's obviously confusing and unhelpful. If you don't like "]" or "]" then suggest another specific alternative, such as "] and the ]" or "British territories in the Indian subcontinent". There are plenty of options that are clear. We don't have to use official names or even a precise description. But to be frank, I think you're being unnecessarily, indeed disruptively, pedantic by claiming that "Indian Empire" or "British India" is somehow wrong. It's not wrong. It's just a convenient shorthand for "British territories in the Indian subcontinent". ] (]) 08:00, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

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No "Indian Empire"

Legally Parliament and the throne never officially proclaimed an "Indian Empire" -- the term was informally used for the British Raj. For that matter, "British Empire" was also an informal term. Rjensen (talk) 17:55, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Saying 'India' became 'India' is equally, if not more, nonsensical. It's also ungrammatical to call it 'the India'. DrKay (talk) 07:51, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Indian subcontinent includes other states like Nepal, Bhutan, Portugal (State of India) and France (French Settlements in India). Using India will be sufficient as most people do know what India meant before 1947 (or specifically 1858 to 1947) and is likely to not cause confusion. The title itself says "Emperor of India", and mentioning the name of the state rather than an ambiguous and non corresponding region is better. Please don't make this into a big issue. It's an extremely small change. Also, I apologise for edit warring previously.

Also, India never became India in 1947, rather it remained India. In 1947, India was granted independence and not "created".

And, regarding the proclamation of the Indian Empire, if you'd check proclamations of other "empires" like Russia and Germany, they too were never proclaimed. Rather, on that particular day, the monarch was proclaimed as the Emperor of India, Emperor of All Russias and German Emperor respectively. Also, the Indian Empire was much different from the British Empire. The British Empire was a colonial empire comprising the United Kingdom, the Indian Empire, Dominion of Canada, and other colonies, similar to French colonial empire and German colonial (note the term "colonial") while the Indian Empire was the name of a state (though, non-sovereign) similar to Russian Empire and German Empire. As for official-ness, I'd prefer not to debate much about it as I've not arguing for the inclusion of "Indian Empire", but you see, in the modern day Republic of India, no legislation or even the Constitution ever used used the term "Republic of India", rather only used "India" or "the Union". However, the Indian passport uses the term "Republic of India" up front on its blue cover. Similarly, in the Indian Empire too, neither Indian legislation nor British legislation used the term "Indian Empire" or "Empire of India", but rather used "India". But the British Indian passport, used the term "Indian Empire" up front on its blue cover and

Indian subcontinent includes other states like Nepal, Bhutan, Portugal (State of India) and France (French Settlements in India), not just India. Using "India" will be sufficient as most people do know what India meant before 1947 (or specifically, from 1858 to 1947) and is likely to not cause confusion. The title itself says "Emperor of India", and mentioning the name of the state rather than an ambiguous and non corresponding region is better. Please don't make this into a big issue. It's an extremely small change.

Also, India didn't become India in 1947, rather, it remained India in 1947. In 1947, India was granted independence and not "created".

And, regarding the proclamation of the Indian Empire, if you'd check proclamations of other "empires" like Russia and Germany, they too were never proclaimed. Rather, on that particular day, the monarch was proclaimed as the Emperor of India, Emperor of All Russias and German Emperor respectively. Also, the Indian Empire was much different from the British Empire. The British Empire was a colonial empire comprising the United Kingdom, the Indian Empire, Dominion of Canada, and other colonies, similar to French colonial empire and German colonial (note the term "colonial") while the Indian Empire was the name of a state (though, non-sovereign) similar to Russian Empire and German Empire. As for official-ness of the term, I'd prefer not to debate much about it as I'm not arguing for the inclusion of "Indian Empire", but if you'd see, in the modern day Republic of India, no legislation or even the Constitution ever used the term "Republic of India", rather only used "India" or "the Union". However, the Indian passport uses the term "Republic of India" up front on its blue cover. Similarly, in the Indian Empire too, neither Indian legislation nor British legislation used the term "Indian Empire" or "Empire of India", but rather used "India". But the British Indian passport, used the term "Indian Empire" up front on its blue cover and "Empire of India" on its front page. Sources – The Shadows of Men, Enemy of the Raj, Chasing Terrorists, The Heavens We Chase. A quick google search of "British Indian passport""Indian Empire" will show you many more sources. PadFoot2008 (talk) 12:13, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

It's no use calling the state before and after the partition the same thing. That's obviously confusing and unhelpful. If you don't like "Indian Empire" or "Indian subcontinent" then suggest another specific alternative, such as "British India and the princely states" or "British territories in the Indian subcontinent". There are plenty of options that are clear. We don't have to use official names or even a precise description. But to be frank, I think you're being unnecessarily, indeed disruptively, pedantic by claiming that "Indian Empire" or "British India" is somehow wrong. It's not wrong. It's just a convenient shorthand for "British territories in the Indian subcontinent". Celia Homeford (talk) 08:00, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

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