Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 15:44, 22 March 2007

Welcome to Pageant Updater's talk page! Feel free to leave me a message :)

• Archive 1 • 14 March - 22 March 2006
• Archive 2 • 23 March - 11 April 2006
• Archive 3 • 26 April 2006 - 26 July 2006
• Archive 4
• Archive 5 • 20 December 2006 - 13 February 2007

Precedent for state titleholders

Hello. Is there any precedent regarding whether or not all state titleholders of Miss USA and/or Miss America are notable? There are a couple of new articles that got created, and at least one of them has had a notability tag added to it. Here (Monica Louwerens‎ Kris Krull‎) are both of them if you want to take a look. --After Midnight 21:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out... yes they are notable (and have been saved in afds...)... will go take a look-see. -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 21:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikistalking

With these last four edits, edit 1, edit 2, edit 3 and edit 4, I wonder if I'm being wikistalked. Please stop. -evrik  23:46, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Now things are getting ridiculous. See my reply on Talk:Kandice Pelletier. I would have removed those edits no matter who made them as they merely deprecate, rather than improve the article. -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 23:49, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

• WikiStalking by PageantUpdater I have reported your continuing abuse. Now please leave me alone. --evrik  02:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Wow. This is nuts.--Filll 02:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Composite images

Hello, Pageant. I've recently found and uploaded Image:Miss Universe manitou2121.jpg and Image:Miss Universe manitou2121.jpg, and I thought you might be interested in them. I found them fascinating. Also, the entire Beautycheck site is very informative, if you're interested in the science of beauty.

(By the way, I think the copyright issues are fine on these, although it's tricky. The composite images are released under a free license, although the individual images upon which they are based are presumably not free. Still, since the individual images are not recognizable, I don't think the copyright holders could make a claim on the composite images. Interesting thought though.)

All the best, – Quadell 18:15, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

A little something for you

The Original Barnstar

		The Original Barnstar
		For tolerance of nonsense above and beyond the call of duty Filll 23:36, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

You may be needing a rest

Friendly advice: This may a sign that you're allowing yourself too much stress... --Abu badali 13:04, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Please! Don't take the above statement as humor or sarcasm. That page got me really worried. Best wishes, --Abu badali 13:21, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Article hacking

If you insist on removing the images placed on the Amazing Race 5 contestants, I will report you for vandalizing the page. The images as listed fit the FU guidelines. If you don't agree tak it up the the Talk:Amazing Race 5 contestants page.--evrik  21:04, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair use image policy

If you have a screenshot of an episode of TAR it can only be used in two articles: the main TAR article and that season's TAR article. And within reason, it can also be used to described the network which airs the program. Fairuse only allows an image to described the topic in discussion. In the case of {{TV-screenshot}} tag only allows a fairuse image dor the description the program pictured. Other uses are not permitted. For example, you can't use a screenshot of a contestant for their bio article on Misplaced Pages. --Madchester 21:43, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Maintenance tags

Actually, you are not allowed to remove maintenance tags unless you explicitly ask the editor who added it in the first place. This applies to both articles and user talk pages. --Madchester 22:19, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I was under the impression, per the links I cited, that prod tags were allowed to be removed by any editor contesting the prod, and that this had to be accompanied by a message in the edit summary and on the talk page. As far as I am concerned this is standard practice. If you read the tag itself, those same instructions are given there. That is the whole idea with the prod tag - it is there until it is "contested" or removed by another editor. That is why I wished you luck getting it to stick, as I expected it to be quickly removed by Evrik. -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 22:25, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

• PU. I think you're right. --evrik  22:47, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Abu badali

You might be interested in this . Seems like the time to request arbitration is about here, as someone is trying to delete/archive the RfC. TheQuandry 20:03, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

RFC

I'll take a look at it when I can. Thanks for your message! --sunstar net 23:50, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll have a look at it once I can too. Though for now, you need to get it endorsed, else it'll be deleted regardless. I'll have a look over both side as soon as I can get a chance. Seraphimblade 06:19, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I can't certify it, as I haven't been involved in the dispute. You need to sign it, and if there is another (DadChester or Filll, for instance) who tried and failed to resolve the issue through discussion on talk pages, they need to sign it. That is how it remains listed. Jeffpw 08:42, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Miss Teen America

Hello. It looks like you may be busy (I've been travelling this past week, so only doing minor editing), but if you have a chance, could you please take a look at Miss Teen America? I'm not sure what to make of it.... --After Midnight 17:10, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Miss Teen International (USA) listing fixed

I fixed this (was originally Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Miss Teen International) since the AfD notice was placed on Miss Teen International (USA), not Miss Teen International. If you intended to nominate Miss Teen International, you will need to fix the current nomination. If you intended to nominate both articles, I suggest you move the nomination back to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Miss Teen International, place an AfD notice on Miss Teen International, fix the link in the AfD notice on Miss Teen International (USA) and add Miss Teen International (USA) to the Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Miss Teen International nomination. —Doug Bell  00:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Oops, have no idea what happened there. Anyway I was only meaning to nominate "Miss Teen International (USA)" so thanks for fixing it. -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 00:47, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Got your request

I got your request to comment on your quixotic campaign against Evrik. I have commented. You should really take your comments off of your home page. --South Philly 21:33, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Survivor pages

I'm curious as to why you nominated them all seperately and didn't just use a mass afd. -- Scorpion 14:44, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Survivor AFDs

So, with your survivor AFDs, are you saying you think the star of a hit national TV show is less notable than a state-level winner at a pageant, with little national coverage? I don't understand these nominations. Most of these Survivor contestants satisfy WP:N, which simply requires non-trivial coverage from multiple independent sources. I've seen you reference "notability" without indicating what your definition is. --Rob 02:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Well according to everything I've read since I came to Misplaced Pages I have gained the impression that in general reality television contestants are not notable unless they gained notability outside the game. The difference with state level titleholders is that they reign for a year and are visible in their communities for the length of their reign and leave a legacy afterwards, not to mention their participation and appearance on TV. In all honesty, I think that while some Survivor contestants (and Amazing Race, and America's Next Top model contestants) are notable, the vast majority are not and are better served by articles such as Amazing Race 5 contestants (currently up for deletion - I'm hoping it will be kept). Nice to hear from you, by the way :) -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 02:09, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that contestants that are notable within the game deserve a page. This would mean getting to about the final 4, or being the first or only of something. Bruce and Lillian would qualify for this, each being notable besides just being a player. Also, Becky was part of the first 3-person tribal council, which makes her notable. Jordan 00:02, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

RFC

Hello PageantUpdater, thank you for your message. The reason I did not remove Erik's "postscript" is that he does not make reference to any other editor. In your "postscript", you specifically say that you want to respond to things said by Erik.

Generally speaking, I don't think it is a big problem to add to your own comments. (I say generally speaking because I can envision a scenario that would cause problems if other people had already endorsed the view, and then the author changes their statement dramatically. In that case, the people who endorsed it would have endorsed a very different version. However, I don't think this technicality applies here).

I do think there is something wrong with responding to other peoples comments. This is specifically precluded from RfC's. Please let me know if you can agree with this reasoning. Best, Johntex\ 07:17, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Miss International (USA)

In the debate, there were indeed a few comments. However, the last delete comment was, in my opinion, successfully rebutted by Bebedebroadway. That leaves only your nomination requesting deletion. At best, it was no consensus, but I saw a week keep, a merge (which defaults to keep, as it just asks for the information to be moved somewhere else), and a comment that does not indicate a desire for deletion. In either case, there was not a consensus to delete. That said, the article can still be merged; it is a purely editorial decision, and does not have anything to do with AFD or the rest of the deletion process. Titoxd 02:00, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Even in that case, it still would boil down to a no consensus. If you disagree with my closure, you're free to request a review of my actions in Misplaced Pages:Deletion review. Titoxd 03:17, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I could but why bother? Anyway the best thing to do right now is simply to do some research, rework the article, reference it better and pull it into shape. No point being destructive when you can be constructive, huh?! -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 03:21, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Although considering it has little more than 4 non-trivial media sources that might not be so easy. -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 03:22, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Amazing Race 11 Images

--Skeetidot 00:39, 26 February 2007 (UTC) PageantUpdater,

I'm new to Misplaced Pages edits, but wanted to add images to Survivor, Big Brother, and Amazing Race articles, the way that they had been added to other articles (see http://en.wikipedia.org/American_idol_5 for an example).

The images were all from CBS.com (so they would be consistent) that I coverted into thumbnails in Adobe Photoshop CS. and I'm under the impression that they are "fair use" images. Also, I added the link to each of these photos when I uploaded them.

I know editors aren't allowed to add just any image found online, which is why I was trying to keep it to official images from the network's official home pages for the shows. Other than adding an image that I took myself and release to the public domain, how else am I to correctly upload images? Which licensing category is appropriate? Do you have any examples of articles with allowable images?

Thanks, Lauren

Re: An idea

I can do those links for "Miss Photogenic" and "Miss Congeniality" - no problem. Do you want all instances in the table, or just the "top-most"? Also, did you happen to see Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 February 26#Category:Beauty Pageant Winners ? --After Midnight 00:29, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Beauty pageant winners

You asked for specific examples for why this category shouldn't be deleted. Check out my logic and you may see the point I'm trying to make. For the record, I'm not invested in the topic of beauty pageants at all, I just hate to see a logical progression to organization fail by consensus. CovenantD 09:12, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Still here I see :)

Hiya, remember me? (Check Archive 1 if not). How's things? Good to see you're still here :) --kingboyk 09:50, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Manske picture

I have saw a picture of Nicole Manske that could be used for a possible replacement. It is her picture to when she worked at WISH-TV in Indianapolis that could qualify as fair us or as promotional that could be used as a replacement. Click on that link to her article and issue comments on this to me please. Even though I don't follow beauty pageants much and despite knowing a former Miss TN and two former Miss SC's, I am interested in Manske because of the auto racing part of her career that she is in, I would still like to have an image of her if possible. Chris 21:35, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately I can't think of an instance where a fair use picture would be suitable for this article. I know it doesn't seem right, and I myself have had issues with the guidelines (for example, nearly one hundred pictures I uploaded were tagged as RFU late last year) but it's just one of those things. For a fair use image to be viable, it would have to illustrate something of great importance to the article rather than purely being decorative. -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 22:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

One of the links I have on Manske shows her as a finalist for the 1998 Miss Teen US pageant and I wonder if that would be a possible substitute for this. It is a thought. I may be grasping for straws on this. I wish there was a way to make these images more easily accessible to use so that we would not have to go through all of this hulabaloo that we could use this stuff as is. This is one of two things, IMO, that i find extremely frustrating about Misplaced Pages (the other is vandalism which I absolutely despise). Chris 20:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I tired to download another image of Manske that was not an issue, but that proved unsuccessful. As a result, I decided to remove the RFU and replaced it with an Ifd with a speedy delete by author. I wish we could get more clarity on this issue, espcially because I want to download images of bobsled, luge, and skeleton tracks as part of a project I am starting later this month. Thanks for your help on this. Chris 23:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The issue is that you over-wrote the last photo without changing the fair use rationale. I agree that the other picture should be able to be used so I'll see what I can do. -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 23:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The initial image was deleted and I am glad to see that you put the image I was putting in, but unsuccessfully overrided in. Thank you for doing this. I owe you one on this. Chris 13:39, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Janelle/Janel Bishop

Hello. I saw this morning that our friend changed Janelle Bishop to Janel Bishop on the article and also at Miss Teen USA. We now have a red-link that should either be fixed via creation of a redirect or doing a page move. I started to try to check sources to see which name spelling was better to use and I am stumped. Can you make a recommendation please? --After Midnight 13:28, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi! I checked the Miss Universe press site and in fact it is "Janel". I was surprised! I will do the page move now. -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 20:44, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Miss Arkansas USA picture

Hi. this one for Kelly George is a little tricky. But, I'm going to say we should consider it free, and if you don't upload it, I probably will. I don't see any "red flag". For instance it doesn't say "Courtesy Photo" (which are usually unfree). Also, certain military publications aren't public domain, like the "Stars and Stripes", but they explicitly state when that's the case. And the photo isn't from a pageant. It's presented as a a news story, by the Air Force. So, I say go for it, but of course, feel free to ask again at Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions. I consider this photo a nice find. As for Tara Conner, I'll take a look (haven't read it for a while). --Rob 01:52, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good, I'll upload it in the next few hours when I get a chance :) -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 02:00, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

My sandbox

I've made some more changes, so feel free to check out my sandbox again. Also, you may want to try it out on some other pageants to see if you think of anything else to add. Any changes will be easier before it gets on too many articles. --After Midnight 03:18, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Arbitration re: Abu badali

Hi. I am writing you because you were one of the respondants on the RfC about Abu badali that was started back in November. There has been no substantive comment there for over a month and User:Abu badali has never bothered to respond to the RfC. The last comment on the talk page of the RfC was a suggestion to take it to arbitration, which is what I propose we do. Accordingly, I have created a shell/draft listing to add to the list of Arbitration Committee matters here. I've listed your new there, preliminarily, as a complaintant. If you are not interested in participating, please remove your name. If you are, please add your comments as we must prepare a 500 word summary of the case. Thanks for your attention - Jord 15:31, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for this. Someone suggested I take it there but as I had never set one up, had/ve no idea of the specific process and am busy irl right now, I never got around to it. Will take a look and comment when I get time. -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 18:43, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Copyvio images

Misplaced Pages:Copyright problems is for copyright violations. If for instance Evrik would have stated he made that picture and licensed it under the GFDL, which he didn't of course. The picture is obviously a fair use image. Whether it fails our fair use criteria is something different. Looking at it, I don't think they do. It's better to use the tags {{fur}} (for replacable fair use) and {{orfud}} (for orphan fair use) and of course WP:IFD. Garion96 (talk) 03:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Pageant calendar

Is there any online calendar for major US pageants? I'd like to try and get some photographers into the state and national ones. -- Zanimum 19:23, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

21 March: Ali Landry's birth name was Katee June Stearns?

Afternoon, You said/added that Ali Landry's birth name was Kattee June Smears. It was taken away. Since your specialty is pageants, I think you probably do know. Do you have a source? Lilkunta 16:23, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Oops... a mistake! Thanks for pointing it out! (Katee Stearns was Miss Maine USA 2006). By the way, sorry to be rude, but your font is really difficult to read. -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 21:41, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Afternoon,What is hard to read? Is this better?Lilkunta 15:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)