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| == History section: Oxygala claims about yogurt origin is not correct == | == History section: Oxygala claims about yogurt origin is not correct == | ||
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History section: Oxygala claims about yogurt origin is not correct
There are very few information about the Greek oxygala and there is dispute about the form of this food. since yogurt's definition is "bacterial fermentation of milk" we need a proof of oxygala has same production steps. Oxygala seems like a type of buttermilk, and it is not a type of yogurt. this claim is inaccurate and seems like a rumour. Oxygala's wikipedia page is also not very informative. with those information, this part in the history section is not factual and should be removed: "The cuisine of ancient Greece included a dairy product known as oxygala (οξύγαλα) which was a form of yogurt. Galen (AD 129 – c. 200/c. 216) mentioned that oxygala was consumed with honey, similar to the way thickened Greek yogurt is eaten today." Objectionreceived (talk) 13:26, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
- Sources for the oxygala article interpret it as a form of yogurt. Given the origin is more than 2000 years ago and sources are outside of written records, the "proof of production steps" you seek are not available. Under WP:BURDEN, you should search for a source that disputes oxygala as an early yogurt form as a start to changing the description. Zefr (talk) 14:49, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
- Those sources use words like probably, possibly. Kefir and viili are also also sour, curdled milk like oxygala was described, but are they yogurt? No. The main purpose of inserting an unnecessary paragraph about oxygala in this article about yoğurt is to imply that Turkish people learned yoğurt from Greeks. Turkic Sakha (Yakut) people of northeastern Siberia traditionally make a type of yogurt called суорат (suorat) the name of which is cognate with Oghuz Turkic yoğurt. (The word-initial Y in East Old Turkic, Oghuz Turkic and Karluk TUrkic regularly corresponds to S in Yakut language. You can google суорат to see its photos and find Russian-language articles about it. Did the Sakha learn yoğurt/suorat from Greeks who live so far way? No. They inherited it from their cultural and linguistic ancestors.
- https://www.academia.edu/20185495/SAHA_T%C3%9CRK%C3%87ES%C4%B0NDE_O%C4%9EUZCA_UNSURLAR (see page 50)
- https://scfh.ru/en/papers/yoghurt-a-la-yakut/
78.162.189.18 (talk) 14:31, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 26 July 2022
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i want to fis it Potaaaitooh (talk) 15:34, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
- It's not clear what you want to be changed. Girth Summit (blether) 15:41, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
"Swiss style" yogurt
This appears to be a North American concept. A quick google produces mostly US and Canadian hits. The article should really clarify that this is a regional, not global, term. Ef80 (talk) 13:34, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
- Agreed. I don't see any sources cited for this term. The reference has been in there for 20 years; since the 3rd revision. I will ping that editor, @Collabi:, as they are still active. As I was looking for the origin edit I did notice at some point there was a citation to a website now apparently defunct, and also it used to say the term is used in the US. But maybe we should say North America because here's a Canadian citation for it. --В²C ☎ 03:58, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
- The use of 'Swiss style' and other allusions to Swiss yoghurt packaging was common in the UK in the 1960s (when yoghurt was much less commonly eaten here) and later - see pictures at https://www.skidairy.co.uk/story . It was probably meant to sound all very healthy and pure. As more and more companies started selling yoghurt, this fashion disappeared. But the yoghurt itself had nothing to do with Switzerland. Sbishop (talk) 08:36, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
- Are you sure? I just Googled for “yogurt in Switzerland” and found this statement on a Swiss website:
—В²C ☎ 16:42, 23 December 2022 (UTC)The Swiss eat a lot of dairy products and yoghurts are no exception. Everyone eats them, and if you peeked into a fridge of a family with teenagers, it would probably be stacked with lots of yoghurts. Swiss yoghurts are stirred instead of strained (set), which results in a creamier consistency. In fact, if you Google stirred yoghurt, it often comes up as Swiss yoghurt. There are only a few exceptions to this in Switzerland; the chocolate, coffee and toffee yoghurts are set ones, all other ones are stirred.
- Are you sure? I just Googled for “yogurt in Switzerland” and found this statement on a Swiss website:
- The use of 'Swiss style' and other allusions to Swiss yoghurt packaging was common in the UK in the 1960s (when yoghurt was much less commonly eaten here) and later - see pictures at https://www.skidairy.co.uk/story . It was probably meant to sound all very healthy and pure. As more and more companies started selling yoghurt, this fashion disappeared. But the yoghurt itself had nothing to do with Switzerland. Sbishop (talk) 08:36, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
- I think Misplaced Pages has misattributed that very old diff. I didn't write the initial revisions of the article (nor that factoid about the swiss style); I just fixed some details about the science. Collabi (talk) 23:58, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
While I think more research is required to find better sourcing before we cite the reference in the article, I think we've established the "swiss" usage exists and is not limited to the US or even to North America. --В²C ☎ 18:29, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
- Hmm. I challenge you to find 'Swiss style' yogurt in a British supermarket, though Nestlé still use the old 'Ski' brand, which has vaguely Swiss connotations. I don't think the issue is important enough to make a fuss about though. --Ef80 (talk) 16:40, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
Production - hung sentence
Under the "Production" heading, the first paragraph ends with the sentence: "That step is followed by addition of starter culture and standing "
Now, I'm just a tourist here, and I don't know enough about yogurt to complete the sentence. It's been that way for at least a year I think, looking at the history. I could compare more revisions but again, I'm only a tourist looking for info on how yogurt is made. Anafyral (talk) 23:48, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
Yogurt vs "curds"
It would be nice to have similarities and differences between yogurt and curds (as in curds and whey). Curds are sometimes made by adding rennet, but can also be made by bacterial fermentation of fresh milk. Differences would seem to include more careful control of the bacterial culture and the temperature, but in both pocesses the milk sugar (lactose) is converted to lactic acid, lowering the pH and coagulating the non-whey proteins. Eaberry (talk) 17:47, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
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