Talk:The Protocols of the Elders of Zion: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 11:05, 30 August 2023 editAcroterion (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators232,488 editsm Reverted edit by Acroterion (talk) to last version by 192.116.64.235Tag: Rollback ← Previous edit		Revision as of 05:17, 31 August 2023 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk \| contribs)Bots, Template editors2,293,709 editsm Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:The Protocols of the Elders of Zion/Archive 10) (botNext edit →
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	::I've removed the passage unless there's any demonstrable value to reinstating it - even Cohn's quote supposedly tying the private letter to the Protocols is ''highly'' suspect, since the essential gist of what Cohn seems to be saying is, 'This is one of the earliest examples I can find of someone mentioning a Jewish conspiracy'. ] (]) 20:07, 12 March 2023 (UTC)		::I've removed the passage unless there's any demonstrable value to reinstating it - even Cohn's quote supposedly tying the private letter to the Protocols is ''highly'' suspect, since the essential gist of what Cohn seems to be saying is, 'This is one of the earliest examples I can find of someone mentioning a Jewish conspiracy'. ] (]) 20:07, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
	:::In my view, the author seems to be referring to a myth that the Jewish conspiracy is by Jewish people from across the world for world-wide control, and not that across the world there are myths of Jewish conspiracy for localized control. ] (]) 19:21, 31 July 2023 (UTC)		:::In my view, the author seems to be referring to a myth that the Jewish conspiracy is by Jewish people from across the world for world-wide control, and not that across the world there are myths of Jewish conspiracy for localized control. ] (]) 19:21, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

	== Textual evidence shows that it could not have been produced prior to 1901 ==

	This very specific claim, with a very specific date, is made with no citation at all. Further in the article there are sections comparing the text with earlier works, but nothing (so far as I can ascertain) about this 1901 date. Where does this come from, and what is the evidence for this as an earliest date? ] (]) 12:16, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

	:The original insertion happened in 2014. The editor has not been around since 2015. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 14:44, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
	: I added a source and did some rewording. It comes right out of De Michelis around the page which was cited for the following sentence. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 15:01, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

	== The 1934 USA "expanded edition" ==
	This edition is 299 pages, not 300 pages as the article currently says. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 22:57, 28 May 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	== FBI-vault dossier ==		== FBI-vault dossier ==

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Strange passage here:

The passage beginning with According to Norman Cohn, the modern myth of a world-wide conspiracy by Jews has its earliest precursor in a work written by a Jesuit priest, is odd - all respect to Norman Cohn, but how can the modern Western myth of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy be rooted in the work of a Jesuit Priest who lived in 1800, when over 500 years earlier, Jews across Europe were accused of poisoning wells with the Black Death and slaughtered en-masse? (Dorsey Armstrong, The Black Death: The World's Most Devastating Plague)

I can understand an argument that this was not worldwide, but localized to Europe, but even the myth of a Jewish worldwide conspiracy is largely a Western conspiracy theory rooted predominantly in European/Western culture. All of this is to say; I don't think Cohn is correct, and the statement is a strange one to state so authoritatively. There is even a Misplaced Pages article about the mass-pogroms here, which spread across the Catholic world and were incited by a conspiracy theory surrounding Jews and the poisoning of the city wells. Mishmoo (talk) 23:10, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

As the paragraph states, the priest in question (Barruel) did not attribute his conspiracy to the Jews. The only Jewish connection was a letter written to Barruel by "Simonini" (perhaps not a real name) complaining that Barruel did not include the Jews in his conspiracy. So it was Simonini and not Barruel who proposed a conspiracy by Jews and only in a private letter. Moreover, there is no evidence whatever of a connection between this affair and the "Protocols". So I believe this paragraph is of dubious value to the article. Zero 05:25, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

I've removed the passage unless there's any demonstrable value to reinstating it - even Cohn's quote supposedly tying the private letter to the Protocols is highly suspect, since the essential gist of what Cohn seems to be saying is, 'This is one of the earliest examples I can find of someone mentioning a Jewish conspiracy'. Mishmoo (talk) 20:07, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

In my view, the author seems to be referring to a myth that the Jewish conspiracy is by Jewish people from across the world for world-wide control, and not that across the world there are myths of Jewish conspiracy for localized control. ~Dr Victor Vasconcelos de Souza (talk) 19:21, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

FBI-vault dossier

The FBI has historic documents pertaining to the Protocols and I think it merits inclusion in the external links section as per WP:EL. Take a look... Swiss romulus (talk) 05:09, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Done Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:55, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Political conspiracy background

***** Not government, but "community" -

Towards the end of the 18th century, following the Partitions of Poland, the Russian Empire inherited the world's largest Jewish population. The Jews lived in shtetls in the West of the Empire, in the Pale of Settlement and until the 1840s, local Jewish affairs were organized through the "Kahal", a semi-autonomous Jewish local community, for purposes of taxation, conscription....... 192.116.64.235 (talk) 10:01, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

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