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:'''Comment''': Note that a move request to ] was discussed in the previous thread earlier this year and failed to get consensus. ] (]) 02:50, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
:'''Comment''': Note that a move request to ] was discussed in the previous thread earlier this year and failed to get consensus. ] (]) 02:50, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
*'''Move to ]''' per ], there is already ] and ]. Or, potentially as pointed out in the lead of the ] article, that's not a good term and we could rename them all "X extremist terrorism". We should probably consider these three things and their associated list articles etc together. But for now I'd say ] takes precedence before that discussion takes place ] (]) 15:16, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
*'''Move to ]''' per ], there is already ] and ]. Or, potentially as pointed out in the lead of the ] article, that's not a good term and we could rename them all "X extremist terrorism". We should probably consider these three things and their associated list articles etc together. But for now I'd say ] takes precedence before that discussion takes place ] (]) 15:16, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
:'''Suggestion.''' I'm not sure I agree with the new name, but the current name definitely needs some work. I can see the merit behind specifying "religious", however, as some might make a distinction between their race/ethnonationalism and their religious practices which is somewhat unique to the demographic. However, this might only be necessary to prevent confusion with another potential "Jewish racial terrorism" page which I don't think exists. Maybe ]? not sure. However, it is interesting that this page is called "political violence". As you suggest, "terrorist" is not very neutral and probably should be replaced with "extremist" or something. ] (]) 17:10, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
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Requested move 25 February 2023
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Not moved - Consensus that "Jewish" indicates both an ethnicity and a religion, and so disambiguation is necessary. There's a further dicsussion to be had about content but that can be dealt with through ordinary editing (non-admin closure) FOARP (talk) 13:57, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Change my vote to Oppose per the arguments below regarding Jews being an ethnoreligious group, not just a religious one like Muslims or Christians.--Estar8806 (talk) 01:26, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
Strong oppose - the nom implies that Jews are equivalent to Muslims and Christians, which is not true, as Jews are an ethnoreligious group, both an ethnicity and a religion. --- Tbf69P • T18:58, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
Oppose. Jewish is both an ethnicity and a religion, meaning that the title is not a tautology but instead clarifying which the article is referring to; we cannot omit it per WP:PRECISE. This is also why we cannot have consistency with the titles of Islamic terrorism and Christian terrorism.
@BilledMammal: If you go through the examples in the article, you will actually find that it is as much if not more about about Jewish nationalist terror as it is anything related to 'religious' terror. Perhaps my opening comment was incorrect and 'Jewish ethnoreligious terrorism' would have been tautology. As it stands, it is simply a misnomer, since it starts from the 'political and religious movement' of the zealots, and moves through purely political movements such as Gush Emunim and Kach, and onto settler violence. Iskandar323 (talk) 16:17, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
I think Jewish nationalist terror is primarily covered by Zionist political violence; we don't need to duplicate that content here.
@BilledMammal: Ok, but since the content already is what it is here, and, in your opinion, duplicated, if you do not think the name should change, are you saying the scope should be narrowed? Which of the elements on this page would you actually host here? And how, in the case of an ethnic religion, is one to clearly distinguish between religious, political and specifically nationalist terrorism (as opposed to simply 'Jewish terrorism'), when they are all so intricately bound up and interlinked? Iskandar323 (talk) 17:19, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
Keep religiously motivated elements here, split off nationalist motivated ones. Elements that involve both motivations are more difficult, but that isn't a problem unique to this article and can be resolved. BilledMammal (talk) 18:07, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Support: per the above and the first sentence of the which defines the subject as terrorism by "extremists within Judaism", and considering the important point that almost all terrorism is on some level partly political, so purely "religious terrorism" is a bit of a misnomer and practically non-existent in practice. The actual examples on this page are deeply entwined with politics. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:32, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
Support --06:56, 5 September 2023 (UTC)--BeLucky (talk)
Support Existing title is unusual/strange. There's many ways to interpret "religious terrorism" - does it mean motivated by religious belief or terrorising the religion of others? Unclear and fails CRIT Naturalness. Proposed title is clear and straightforward. DeCausa (talk) 10:31, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
We need to consider this aspect also: Both religious terrorism and extremist terrorism involve the use of violence for ideological purposes, the key distinction lies in the primary motivation and targets. Religious terrorism is driven by religious beliefs and often targets those perceived as threats to those beliefs, while extremist terrorism can be rooted in various ideologies and may have a broader range of targets. It's important to note that not all religious individuals or extremist groups engage in terrorism, and the majority of religious and extremist movements are non-violent. --BeLucky (talk) 06:28, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
The latter point is not a source of confusion; these articles are about terrorism, not about non-violent extremists. To the first point I would reiterate that "religious terrorism" is itself a disputed term. The more NPOV synonym for terrorism is "political violence", and the reason for this is that the word terrorism contains the sense of violence for political ends. Political violence by groups with religious sympathies is still political violence; why they might be inspired by religious ideology (in the same way that domestic terrorism might be inspired by xenophobia), the end result is still violence with a political goal - making a political statement, changing the conversation or public opinion, intimidating political opponents or attempting to effect the structures of government themselves. In contrast, it is hard to think of an example of something that might be construed as pure "religious terrorism" without some sort of political end. On this page, the Zealots explicitly instigated a rebellion against Rome; it was political in the extreme. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:03, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
Move to Jewish terrorism. I'm in agreement with the consistency and concision point sraised by Rreagan007. The status quo has the modifier "religious" which serves little purpose, unless there's more ethnically but non-religiously Jewish terrorism out there than I'm aware of. The proposed modifier "extremist" is redundant to "terrorism". I'm sympathetic to NightHeron's view on needing to associate terrorist acts with the extremists, not whole religions, but this is the job of the articles and leads, not the titles. I suppose we could have a discussion about moving all "X terrorism" to "X extremist terrorism", but I don't think it'll help. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 13:26, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
Suggestion. I'm not sure I agree with the new name, but the current name definitely needs some work. I can see the merit behind specifying "religious", however, as some might make a distinction between their race/ethnonationalism and their religious practices which is somewhat unique to the demographic. However, this might only be necessary to prevent confusion with another potential "Jewish racial terrorism" page which I don't think exists. Maybe Zionist terrorism? not sure. However, it is interesting that this page is called "political violence". As you suggest, "terrorist" is not very neutral and probably should be replaced with "extremist" or something. Inanimatecarbonrobin (talk) 17:10, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
