Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 02:17, 30 March 2007

Archive

You can find old stuff in User talk:Abu ali/Archive

Thank your for your support and warning

However, Isarig was mistaken about my violation of the 3RR rule because he mistakenly listed this as a revert. Beelzebarn 16:08, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Why don't you restore my edit? You seem only to have made one reversion to the article recently. Beelzebarn 16:28, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Warnings from userpage

Please do not add unhelpful and non-constructive information to Misplaced Pages. If you continue to do so, it may be considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you.

the link between zionism and moshe katzav shows both your stance and lack of knowledge on zionism and i suggest you refrain from such obvious bias presentation on a whole ideaological concept by attaching it to an alleged (not yet put on trial) criminal... even if it's "just" for fun purpouses on your own userpage. Jaakobou 09:24, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

One can learn much about Zionism by studying the actions of its supporters on Misplaced Pages.

Jaakobou

Please stop. If you continue to vandalise Misplaced Pages, you will be blocked.

this finger pointing is unacceptable, i suggest you let go of your anti-zionist bash tactics or that you merely move them to a website which allows such activity. Jaakobou 11:26, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I am afraid that I do not agree with your categorisation of my edits of my own talk page as vandalism. Take it easy. Abu ali 15:41, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

This is your last warning. The next time you vandalise Misplaced Pages, as you did to User:Abu_ali, you will be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages.

i'm afraid you did not only refuse to remove your obvious connction of an alleged sexual offender from the "Zionism" title, but you made sure that my username stay after it was removed by an admin - your activity has shown that you have the intention of using this platform in a destructive manner even after being given fair warning - this is your third warning. Jaakobou 21:54, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Sir, your warnings are totally inapropriate. My alledged offence in your eyes is to have a link to the prezident of the state of Israel on my user page. If you do not like the fact that Katzav is prezident of the State of Israel, then please direct your complaints to those that elected him. Abu ali 06:48, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The state of my approval or disapproval (check yes next to disapproval) of Katzav is non-related to the subject which is "defamation on zionism". Mr. Katzav is not even a spec on the history of zionism but you made him your primary (and only) link - not to mention your later abuse of my username which showed lack of good faith (which you claim i mis-attacked you over??). i suggest, same as before, that you discard this counter-productive use of wikipedia. Jaakobou 08:10, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Moshe Kazav was elected president of the state of Israel not by me but by the Knesset. The president has few powers but his main function is to serve as a symbol of the state. I had other Israeli leaders on the list but they were deleted by User:MacGyverMagic who was responding to your complain about me on WP:AIN. Thank you for your kind suggestion regarding what I should have on my userpage. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this. Abu ali 10:01, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Abu, you don't have to keep those warnings on your talk page. There's no consensus about that, and one school of thought is that if you remove them, that is an acknowledgment that you've read them. Seems kinda nutsy for you to get a warning, anyway, for a content dispute (and for what it's worth, I'm Jewish and don't find your userpage offensive). Jeffpw 08:22, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I will keep them as they do illustrate the agressive tactics used by certain editors on Misplaced Pages. I am glad that you don't find my userpage offensive. (Although it is not as well informative and well thought out as yours!) Maybe one day I will have time to add some more information, (assuming Jaakobou and his friends don't succeed in getting me banned). Abu ali 10:01, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Abu ali, i have no prejudices towards you, however, you've made a stance which is aggressive towards me by presenting liableous materials and it would seem that it's not a "one time" situation but an actual agenda. i request you use this website for promoting the important topics which will create a better future for the people you presumably care for. in a paraphrase on the words of golda meir: "peace will come when the arabs will love their children more than they hate us"... this was said after she mistakenly insisted war would not break because she believed that "arab grandmothers are sure to love their grandsons same as us"... i respectfully request that you will not misguidedly associate an alleged sex offender with the zionist enterprise (regardless of your perception on that enterprise)- feel free to associate it with the king david bombing... with the lechi and the hagana and the irgun ... although it would be much more generous of you to connect it also with the drop of child mortality for arabs and with many other projects as well. your connection (+persistant) of it to moshe katzav seems to promote the thought that your desire/conception is to say/that zionism=evil and you wish to use anything you can as proof... i hope you will respect my request rather than have us in a continuous pickle... last note, this is not a zionist plot to bring you down *shrug* - i happen to feel that many of your edits have been fair (accusations against "israeli friends" and "zionist" apart).

Abu ali will never give up. I have learned to ignore his horrible edits. Let him waist his life trying to convey his POV on Misplaced Pages. Brilliance 02:33, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

Comment from my user talk

Hi Abu, I simply moved the warnings from your user page to your talk page as I simply thought you would not want them there. With regards to advising User:Jaakobou on his talk page about giving final warnings, this was because he posted a comment on WP:AIV asking for help regarding your edits. The reason why I advised him was because 1)AIV should only be used to report users not get advice regarding them and 2)users should only be reported once they have been given a final warning. I wasn't in anyway implying that I thought your edits were vandalism, I was simply advising on the appropriate course of action to take with regards to reporting users. Regards RyanPostlethwaite 19:22, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Ethnic bias

You have recently made several comments ( ) implying or outright accusing other users of ethnic bias. In addition to the appearance of bias which jumping immediately to such accusations puts on your own actions, this is a grave breach of several Misplaced Pages policies (WP:NPA, WP:AGF, WP:CIVIL). Please confine your comments to discussion of encyclopedia content and procedures rather than making ethnic/religious slurs against other editors. --CBD 14:12, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

You misread my comments. My comments have nothing to do with ethnicity, and everything to do with political ideology (i.e. Zionism). Abu ali 16:19, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Whichever. Whether the dispute is ethnic, religious, political, or whatever is irrelevant... all are improper. --CBD 18:12, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Racism by country

the issue of israel being deleted from this section and being stubbed in racism is becoming an issue. I think the situation reflects poorly on wiki and who edits here. Content is being deleted despite valid refs, yet other section have different rules. most editors seem to turn a blind eye.--HalaTruth(ሐላቃህ) 02:15, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I think it reflects very accurately on Misplaced Pages. Israeli society is riven with racism, against Arabs, Mizrachi jews and foreign workers. But on Misplaced Pages there is no mention of this, and anyone who dares add any reference on this is branded as an anti-semite. Abu ali 09:57, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

have a read of what was written in racism on israel. it is a joke, and no one says anything, they dont even try to hide it.--HalaTruth(ሐላቃህ) 11:21, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Amazing. I like the bit about "critics of Israel echoing words that could come out of the mouth of Osama Bin Laden". This is WP NPOV at its finest. Abu ali 12:11, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

• Coincidentally, I was responding to that comment while you were asking me to respond to it ... WilyD 15:22, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Cquick work:-) Abu ali 15:22, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I am still in Holland until Friday and my acees to computers in general and ti Wikipeidia in particular is very limited by not wanting to put a burden on my hosts here. After Friday this week, Feb. 16, will be back at home in Israel and will try to get involved. Meanwhile, perhaps you can take a look at the Shmuel Yerushalmi article which my friends s informed me is under threat of deletion and prhaps might still be saved.Adam Keller 23:04, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

seen it before..

Hi, regarding Talk:Racism by country well, I´ve seen it more times that I can remember :-( As you may conclude from my userpage: pro-Israeli editors "outgun" anybody else here. (Another favorite is to try to delete biographys about people who are critical of Israel....they are for some reason "non-notable"....) Anyway, I think all the editors running around inserting the total garbage of Shmuel Katz is worse...I just have to take three steps back and laugh of the whole thing...

Don´t expect me to be on Misplaced Pages every day (or every week!) I am on wikipedia on-and-off....cannot be bothered with too much of the censorship....

very wise...

Anyway, can I ask you a favour? Could you put 1948 and after; Israel and the Palestinians on your watch-list? "Some" editor apparently do not like the the content of the book, and tries to remove it...

it's a good article about a good book, written by benny morris. and look what pressure was put on the poor guy to recant

Sorry I didn´t get to comment on this; just a note: I see you have referred to user:SlimVirgin as a "he": well, SlimVirgin is a "she" (like myself), (she had that on her user-page earlier).

on the internet you never know who is on the other end of the line. Most of the characters round here are male. Women generally have better things to do with their time.

Anyway, take care, and stay cooooooool, Regards, Huldra 15:54, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

you too... Abu ali 16:16, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Removal of the "list" from your user page

I believe the material on your user page is libelous and could be misconstrued by users who are not familiar with Misplaced Pages as a comprehensive list of Zionist leaders. It's odd how you pick and choose ones who have allegedly broke the law. I suggest you read WP:USER#What_can_I_not_have_on_my_user_page.3F and Misplaced Pages:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_soapbox. Yonatan (contribs/talk) 11:43, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Racism articles

I am now back in action (which does not mean I can devote all my time to Misplaced Pages, i have many other things to take care of). I took a look at the Racism and Racism by Country aricles. What is in them about Israel at the moment is reasonble, though it can be improved. I have some ideas but I think anything I change must be very clearly sourced, so I should not do anything hasty. (I have tangled with mr. Humus Sapiens before. Regardeless of the Israel specific issue, by the way, I think the two articels should be merged - either the Racism by Country merged into the general articles or the sections on specific countries in Racism should be removed to the other one and where both had a section on the same coutry these should be merged into one. Adam Keller 00:31, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Welcome back. From my limited knowledge of your BIO I am amazed that you find time to even look in Misplaced Pages. Don't waste too much time here writing stuff which is liable to be deleted by right wingers. (The appear to have organized to finnish off the Shmuel Yerushalmi article. They can barely conceal their hatred for the guy ). These guys hate me. But this is nothing compared to their hatred of their fellow Israelis who are working for peace.) Regarding the Racism article, to my amazement an Israel section has been added to the article and has not yet been deleted. We will see how long it lasts.... Regards ابو علي 12:46, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

please visit

hope you can visit http://www.muslimwikipedia.com/mw/index.php/Main_Page. 7day 16:18, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I will. Shukran! ابو علي 16:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Inayat Bunglawala

You might be interested in this. Not sure if you're familiar with this issue, but the media secretary of the Muslim Council of Britain was recently accused of sending death threats to an American right-wing blog. The bloggers self-investigated and ultimately could not prove their allegations, but because of a single mention of the incident in Ynet, some users here feel that it warrants mention in this man's Misplaced Pages page, citing WP:RS. I contend that it runs afoul of WP:BLP, as it was an unsubstantiated allegation and extra care should be taken with such matters in pages of living people. Thoughts?

• My listing of this on the BLP noticeboard. Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard (scroll to #158)
• A mediation case brought by others. Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-02-19 Inayat Bunglawala

Tarc 13:40, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Not familiar with the story. But I'll try to read the stuff if I get a minute. ابو علي 17:11, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Arab citizens of Israel

It's also worth reading Shahak's 1975 booklet "The Non-Jew in the Jewish State", if you can get hold of it. Some time I will try to scan it and put it online, but it will have to wait. --RolandR 17:32, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Indigenous?

Please look at my argument with Isarig on User talk:RolandR RolandR 18:48, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Ayaan Hirsi Ali

I was wondering if you know anything significant about her so that I could expand the criticism section on her article which as it stands is pretty slim. I saw her on Real Time with Bill Maher last night and just something about her pissed me off. In a way I almost prefer out and out rascists like Daniel Pipes because at least there direct and honest. You know where he's coming from, no matter how revolting his views may be. Whereas people like Ali and Irshad Manji play this extremely disengious game of claiming to speak for Islam and yet reputating it at the same time. I'm an atheist myself, but I try to remain careful that my secularism doesn't dovetail into a militaristic rascism.

The reason I mention this to you is that if you read the article on her you notice several passages of her gushing over what a great liberal democracy Israel is and how the palestinian disenfranchisement is mostly there own fault because of corrupt leaders like arafat. I think we need to more directly address these academic hacks because there real purpose is not enlightened discussion, but to give justification from everything to racial profiling, Guantonomo Bay, the Iraq war and the Israelie policy in the occupied territories. They are so called "House Muslims" who in the words of Tariq Ramadan "tell westerners what they want to hear. annoynmous 13:34, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I can't help because I know very little about this right wing politician. Good luck ابو علي 20:29, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

For the heads up. But man, I am being stalked. Tewfik is now chasing me around to articles like Indigenous Peoples and elsewhere. Did you see my note in talk about the criteria to designate a group indigenous on Misplaced Pages? It is at, or linked to the Category:Indigenous Peoples page. Now, he's deleting my addition of Palestinians to all those pages even though I provided a source from the UN that designates Palestinians as indigenous. Abu Ali, what should I do? Where can I get help to stop his repeated deleting of this factual information? Help. Tiamut 17:11, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I know you are right. And I do do that sometimes. But it sincerely irks me that editing articles related to the Middle East has to be such a battleground where the first casualty is the truth. I mean it's obvious Palestinians are indigenous to what is now Israel and the occupied territories. But with the amount of noise they make, you would think it was about as controversial as claiming that we never went to the moon. Thanks for keeping a cool head and putting things in perspective. Salamat. Tiamut 17:41, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

As per your suggestion

Check out Tawfiq Ziad ... Let me know if you like it. Tiamut 23:11, 27 February 2007 (UTC) and Abnaa el Balad. Feel free to add. I also thought you might want to look at this considering the related debate at Talk:Arab citizens of Israel. I didn't take time off. But I made good use of it anyway. :) Tiamut 03:52, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Good stuff... Welcome back! ابو علي 09:52, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Leon Trotsky

You seem to be on the edge of a 'revert war' with another editor. Please try to avoid that, and use the Talk pages instead. --Duncan 15:03, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

fair enough ابو علي 15:38, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Your sig

Please make your signature readable in Lating fonts as well, see Misplaced Pages:Signatures. Not all people have installed all possible world fonts. For example, on some computers I see your sig as ?????? . `'mikka 19:51, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, I have added in Lating fonts as well ابو علي (Abu Ali) 00:33, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

It seems that we Arabs are nothing but trouble

I mean, how could we?
Express an opinion, that is.
Challenge authority
or bring in points of view underrepresented in the mainstream.
Be persistent,
and yet pen poems.
Write about our poets, writers,
music, and resistance.
How dare we pretend to know who we are
and express what we believe.

How dare we?
Write about what we know
What they've done to us
What they still do to us
And not apologize
for our pursuit of the truth

I don't know if you're Palestinian, Abu Ali. But I know that as a fellow human being, you share my pain at the state of the world. And I share yours. That's what moves me to write. My love for all people which begins with love for myself, then my neighbours, my people, and expands outward from there, everywhere. And if that's wrong, if passion is forbidden, and free-thought is dead, then let me die with them. For then, there is nothing in the world left to live for. Tiamut 20:54, 2 March 2007 (UTC) (Ahhh, the melodrama of our "Orient". Obviously passion and free-thought continue to live, and death is hopefully still way way off in the future. No need to worry, not planning anything crazy. Just thought I would clarify since once I read about this Palestinian guy at a University in Montreal that said he "was going to be famous one day", and the Zionist he was arguing with started shouting "So, you want to join Hamas?" assuming that he meant he wanted to become a suicide bomber. He was charged with making death threats, though the case was eventually dismissed after one of the witnesses admitted to writing both witness statements that were used against him and which in fact were identical. I know it sounds "conspiratorial", but it is actually true: Tiamut 21:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC))

Beautiful ya Tiamut. I have no words worthy of following your poetry. Thanks 1000 ابو علي (Abu Ali) 22:32, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

and another thing

Check this out: and go to the discussion page in general to have a look at what it looks like now. Where have you seen that kind of tactic before? Tiamut 22:50, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Kurt Nimmo

Thank you very much for the help. annoynmous 00:06, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Abu Ali

Keep on keeping on. I am trying, but I guess I have a little too much pride, almost to the point of being a fault. I have to work on cultivating my dignity. You make a great example. :) Tiamut 00:21, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

pride is a good thing. Take it easy.... ابو علي (Abu Ali) 11:59, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Can you help me

Shortly after you helped me with Kurt Nimmo I got a ban. Isarig complained to the notice board an slimvirgin banned me for 2 hours. I got banned for an edit war I was having on the Dershowitz-Finkelstein affair with Isarig. I actually had two edit wars going on with Isarig in that article and the one on Nimmo. I'm going to continue with my edits, but I'm afraid that Isarig and his intimidation tactics will get me banned again. Can you give some back-up and talk to slimvirgin or some other administrator to keep Isarig from banning me.

Also could you continue with my edits if I get banned again.annoynmous 05:46, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi annoynmous,

Apealing to slimvirgin to restrain Isarig looks to me like a total waste of time, as she will always back Isarig up however outrageous his behaviour, and will use any opportunity possible to block anyone opposing Isarig. I am not going to get involved in these edit wars because life is too short, and also because I am not sufficiently knowledgeable about either of these two issues. Don't edit war. Make watertight arguments on the talk pages, invite fresh editor involvement via RFC. Allow your opponents to expose themselves by their own unreasonable actions. And don't give our friends any pretext to block you. Good luck and take it easy. ابو علي (Abu Ali) 10:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

for the 3RR justification. It's nice to know that these things aren't necessarily lost causes. Chris Cunningham 15:40, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

You might want to know

Hi. There is an interesting discussion at the ANI. One of your diffs was cited, and 'educational' blocks have been threatened. See Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive211#Personal_attacks_and_claims_of_COI. For some reason, the threatening user, User:Jayjg, did not notify the people he was considering as targets. Somehow that seems contrary to the 'educational' objective. I thought you'd like to know. The Behnam 08:16, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

There was a clear understanding among admins and editors, including The Benham that there was a confusion between WP:NPOV and WP:COI, and that Jay's edits where not violations of the latter. Whether they are of the former was not discussed, and his while his brusquness and curtness was addressed, they too are not WP:COI violations. WP:COI is very specific, and it may help of you were to review it carefully. As for POV, that is a different issue. I hope that clarifies issues a bit. Thanks. -- Avi 13:05, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

The relevant section of WP:COI is

Close relationships

Friedrich Engels would have had difficulty editing the Karl Marx article, because he was a close friend, follower and collaborator of Marx. Any situation where strong relationships can develop may trigger a conflict of interest. Conflict of interest can be personal, religious, political, academic, financial, and legal. It is not determined by area, but is created by relationships that involve a high level of personal commitment to, involvement with, or dependence upon, a person, subject, idea, tradition, or organization.

Closeness to a subject does not mean you're incapable of being neutral, but it may incline you towards some bias. Be guided by the advice of other editors. If editors on a talk page suggest in good faith that you may have a conflict of interest, take seriously what they say and consider withdrawing from editing the article. As a rule of thumb, the more involved you are in a particular area in real life, the more careful you should be to adhere to our core content policies — Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view, Misplaced Pages:No original research, and Misplaced Pages:Verifiability — when editing in that area.

There is no tidy definition of what is meant by "too close" in this context, and editors should use their common sense in deciding whether this guideline applies. An article about a little-known band should preferably not be written by a band member or the manager. On the other hand, an expert on climate change is welcome to contribute to articles on that subject, even if that editor is deeply committed to it.

ابو علي (Abu Ali) 13:13, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

And who is the Karl Marx to Jay's Frederich Engels? Your extrapolation is improper. You have an Arabic signature, should it be a conflict of interest for you to edit on anything elating to Islam, Israel, the Koran, the middle East, AND calligraphy? -- Avi 13:17, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

The state of Israel. Of course I would not argue that Jay should not edit articles concerning Israel where he obviously is knowlegeable. But he should excercise restraint when deleting criticism. ابو علي (Abu Ali) 13:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Jay is not an employee of the government of the state of Israel, nor is the state of Israel a person of which Jay was a lifelong student. Which is why WP:COI is inapplicable. You may wish to read a bit about Friedrich Engels and his relationship with Marx. -- Avi 13:29, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I never suggested that he was. But then neither was Engles an employee of Marx. The question I was raising was one of "close relationships". ابو علي (Abu Ali) 13:32, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

He was a life-long collaborator and student of Marx, not even remotely similar . -- Avi 18:04, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks (or should that be شكراً) for your appreciation. I am trying to tidy up/add to the Israeli politics section as there is a lot of stuff missing, a lot of stuff badly written/formatted, and a lot of bias (from both sides). I'm sure our paths will cross again! Number 57 15:10, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Afwan! Keep up the good work! ابو علي (Abu Ali) 15:19, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

New article

Wanna help? There was nothing on internal refugees from the 1948 war, so I drafted this stub, Internally Displaced Palestinians. If you have stuff to add, it would be appreciated. It's a huge subject and I could use some help. Tiamut 18:46, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

A good start, and certainly more than a stub. But unfortunately I lack the knowledge of this important issue that I would need to help. But keep up the good work! ابو علي (Abu Ali) 22:16, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

You remembered International Women's Day? You're a star Abuali. Thanks for the good wishes. Tiamut 17:21, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Adam Keller article

In view of your interest in this article, you may want to look at recent edits, and also at my talk page. RolandR 23:45, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

When you get a chance

Can you check out the article Law of Return? Thanks. Tiamut 19:35, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate your comments Abu Ali. I know that it's almost not worth it to continue trying to add balance to those pages, but the funny thing with me and fairness, truth and justice is that I just can't let it go. Thoughts create reality my friend. So I work mostly on trying to get distance when things get heated and keeping my head up and my wits about me. It's true I waste so much time fighting just to get a couple of sentences added. But it must be worth it. What's that saying about innovation being 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration? I'm sweating up a storm here. Something's gotta give. :) Tiamut 20:57, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

The injustice on these pages is nothing compared to the injustice you can see every time you look out of your window. So you have to keep a sense of proportion. Thoughts are important. But irrespective of the efforts of our friends here on Misplaced Pages and their little victories, they are loosing the war. Israel is the most hatred country in the world. More people see Israel as a threat to world peace than any other country. And this is not the result of "Palestinian Propoganda" but of the actions of Israels own leaders. Take it easy ابو علي (Abu Ali) 21:04, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hey. I just saw User:Humus Sapiens revert. Can't get sucked into revert wars! So despite the multiple edits I made to get that section down to a bare minimum summary of Palestinian criticisms of the Law of Return and introduce some balance into that section, which it is sorely lacking, I'll just let them temporarily kill another perfectly legitimate edit that doesn't accord with their POV. Maybe someone else will come to the rescue on the merits of the edit itself, judging it by its encyclopedic value and against WP:NPOV. Hope springs eternal. :) (and yeah, about your comments above, I know in some ways that we don't even have to do anything. They're doing it to themselves. But it's not just about that, it's more about truth and fairness and giving a voice to all parties involved so that the future can be healthy instead of f&*#ked like it is now. :) Tiamut 21:11, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Just noticed this

and his response here: . I thought you should know. It's amazing the lengths people will go to censor such serious "thoughtcrimes". Unbelievable. Tiamut 17:46, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Well to their credit they haven't vandalised my page, or indef blocked me. Well not yet at least. When I get a bit of free time, I'll try to put something more thought provoking on my user page. Meanwhile congratulations on the Kittens! ابو علي (Abu Ali) 22:35, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

They are just the cutest things you ever saw: I love newborns of all shapes, sizes and types. The potential for good seems limitless in the face of new life. Going to take a peak at them immediately puts things into perspective when things get randy around here. Once they get a little bigger, I'll be sure to keep them close by. :) Tiamut 14:40, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not an admin so I wouldn't block you (and even if I were one I wouldn't block you, I'd ask someone else to if they thought it to be right). Just like you wouldn't want me to say, "Yasser Arafat may have died from AIDS." on my user page, or put a list of all political figures who committed crimes in your country (obviously it's harder to do that, as the PA isn't really at the stage where it's arresting politicians who are corrupt, etc.). Just because you're doing it indirectly doesn't mean it's okay. Anyway, I'd obviously not start removing stuff from your user page and I asked for his opinion as I know I'm bound to be more easily offended\have a problem with something of the sort. Yonatan 21:47, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

hi

Abu, could you please email me? huldra999 "at" hotmail "dot" com (<-to avoid those bots ). Thanks, Huldra 21:00, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Daniel Schueftan

Considering your interest and expertise in editing pages on Israeli leadership, I was wondering if you could take the time to add to this article I just created. Thanks. Tiamut 22:09, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

To be honest, I have not heard of him. But I will try to look him up and see if there is anything I can add. Best regards to you, your family and your new kittens... ابو علي (Abu Ali) 15:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for both the offer to check it out and the best wishes to the fam (my husband comes home tomorrow thankfully so that I can take a break form this crazy editing schedule) and the kittens (I want to eat them they're so cute!). I had never hear of him either, and only came upon his name when investigating the origins of Israel's Hafrada policy. As I was reading, I realized just how important he is to policy formation, particularly over the last decade. Anyway, I just thought I would share. Tiamut 15:41, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

By the way, do you know anything about the late Proffesor Israel Shahak. His bio page on wikipedia is devoted slandering hime as an antisemite and attempts to smear him by association with neo nazis. (sounds familiar?) Huldra removed a particularly offensive passage about him being a too of neo-nazis, and after her edits were reverted, I opened a discussion on the talk page about this. I used to read his reports, but that was before the days of the internet and can not find them on-line. Do you know if there is a collection anywhere? ابو علي (Abu Ali) 16:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I do know Shahak's work (and it's terrible that people keep trying to marginalize his serious and important body of work). I remember that my Baba used to have books and articles of his in the expansive Middle East collection he kept. I will try to find Internet sources and I'll ask my dad if he remembers where they ended up. Tiamut 16:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Some sources and info that might help

• This is a review of the book, Anti-Zionism: Analytical Reflections, in the WRMEA that quotes and discusses one of Shahak’s essay. You might find this quote very relevant to the issue at hand:

  Zionism, writes Shahak, "can be described as a mirror image of anti-Semitism," since it, like the anti-Semites, holds that Jews are everywhere aliens who would best be isolated from the rest of the world. Moreover, "both anti-Semites and Zionism assume anti-Semitism is ineradicable and inevitable."

• This article at the History News Network entitled, "Poisoning the Well: The False Equation of Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism" by Professor Irfan Khawaja addresses the smears laid against Shahak and a slew of others. She say there is a broad trend of

  … reflexive equation, by defenders of Israel, of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism, itself part of the emerging literature on "the new anti-Semitism." Focusing on the undeniable fact that many anti-Zionists are anti-Semites, and that anti-Zionism can easily be used as a disguise for anti-Semitism, writers in this genre simply insist over and over that no one can be an anti-Zionist without simultaneously being an anti-Semite ... What is at work here is less a discernible principle than a robotic sort of cut-and-paste procedure: Come up with a list of people who a priori must be anti-Semites; then cast about for ‘evidence’ of this claim by finding sentences here or there to which you give an anti-Semitic interpretation regardless of the intention of the author or the context of the utterance. Where the evidence is simply too thin to support a straightforward accusation, insinuate that anti-Semitism is at work without actually making an assertion that it is. Repeat the process until you run out of people.

• And finally, this is an article about a talk that Shahak gave with Chomsky that described the debate provoked by their analyses:

We are doing to Palestinians what Christians have done to ," Shahak continued, tracing the history of the oppression of Jews throughout European history. "It is quite common that a persecuted group becomes a persecutor," he said.

… In reply to the audience's hostility, Shahak said that Jews who perpetuate a "denial of common humanity" are "Jewish Nazis." Another audience member angrily responded to Shahak, "You were lucky you survived , but 6 million Jews didn't."

Several others said that Shahak's use of the phrase "Jewish Nazis" was disrespectful to the memory of the Holocaust. Shahak maintained that "Jews can become Nazis."

I can't stop

It's addictive. I start researching a subject and the more information I find, the more I want to share and write. I'm also taking advantage of the free time to get my edit fix so that when my partner is here I have time to spend with him, free from thoughts of article categoriztion or reliable sources needed for article X. Is there a wiki help group for this kind of thing? :) Tiamut 23:02, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Who knows.... Wishing you, your husband a happy reunion. Take it easy. ابو علي (Abu Ali) 00:00, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. By the way, he said to Salam alayk and ya'atik il aafi. He knows about my Wiki work and hears stories about some of the interesting twists and turns of debates around here. Our computers face each other, so he often gets an earful. :) See you around. Tiamut

Give him my regards too. And tell him that I say he is a lucky guy! All the best to both of you (+ the kittens). ابو علي (Abu Ali) 09:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I will tell him (his long-awaited arrival has been delayed for a day - but that's life :) and thanks for thinking so. All the best to you too. Tiamut 15:28, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Avraham Hirschson

Might as well add him to your "list of watched pages" too... ;/ Yonatan 18:37, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll read up on him. ابو علي (Abu Ali) 22:05, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Why him? Tewfik 02:04, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Inappropriate reversion

There is absolutely nothing on the talk page to support your recent reversion of fully-discussed edits on Israel Shahak. Please self-revert your violation of WP:NPOV. -- TedFrank 09:11, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

March 2007

With regards to your comments on Talk: Israel Shahak: Please see Misplaced Pages's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. TedFrank 13:02, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Matzpen

This is your last warning. The next time you delete or blank page contents or templates from Misplaced Pages, as you did to Matzpen, you will be blocked from editing.

Considering your history of ill faith edits and contribution to Israeli-related articles on wikipedia (hat tip to your user page), and the way you handle editing disputs by "war reverting" without even considering wiki's NPOV and the changes made, i'm issuing yet another "final warning" to you in regards to that latest revert - please self revert and join the discussion on the talk page so I can remove this warning and we can resume proper wiki editing ettiquette. Jaakobou 10:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Shalom Jaakobou, Contrary to your accusation, I did not blank the page. If you make too many final warnings, people may end up not taking you too seriously. In my oppinion it is better to discuss with those who you disagree with than to ban them. Take it easy ابو علي (Abu Ali) 18:07, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

What is this nonsense? Abu Ali didn't delete or blank any page contents, as a look at the page history will show. He simply reverted your POV edits to my neutral formulation. Jaakobou's accusation is so over-the-top, it is hard to take it seriously. RolandR 20:20, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

the template may be imperfect, but this reffers to "tag team war reverting" after the dispute has been raised in the talk page. Jaakobou 09:22, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Please do not use talk pages such as Talk:Matzpen for general discussion of the topic. They are for discussion related to the article. They are not to be used as a forum or chat room. See here for more information. Thank you.

1. I'm not much interested in your personal POV interpertations/misrepresentations and narrative personal questioning, i.e. "regime", "occupation","checkpoints","unpaid".
2. In regards to your personal question, I get the opportunities that many in the arab world are denied. In fact, those opportunities are also given to Israeli Arabs despite their not doing their share in the duties of the country (Druze people aside).
3. Since you've shown no intention to self-revert (or even honestly discuss on the talk page) despite the well given opportunities to do so, I am forced to revert your "tag-team revert" and repeat my previous warning that if you repeat this offense you will be blocked.
4. On a side note, I 100% disagree with your terminology and narrative considering the selective and politicaly motivated aplication of it, and despite your personal beliefs - you can still be a constructive wikipedia editor (i.e. opposite of destructive) even in cases of disputes. However, you should make an effort and not play revert games. Jaakobou 23:27, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

It seems that we will have to agree to disagree. ابو علي (Abu Ali) 06:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I am shocked at the patronising tone adopted by Jaakobou: "you can still be a constructive wikipedia editor", "you should make an effort". Almost as though he is entitled to approve your contributions, or give them marks. Quite a colonial attitude, in fact; it doesn't surprise me that you are offended by such remarks. But don't worry; his threats are empty and there should be no way you can be blocked over your legitimate edits. RolandR 19:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I am not offended or suprised by his remarks. I have heard many similar. But on Misplaced Pages these remarks can be seen by all, and as you point out are quite instructive. ابو علي (Abu Ali) 19:34, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: Maavak Sozialisti deletion

Re: your message, I thought that I had left word on all the proper places that by notability I meant WP:ORG. Just in case I wasn't clear, there need to be multiple nontrivial sources. The Haaretz piece you found is a good sign, but you'll need at least one more nontrivial source. Look at this as an opportunity to improve the article. Tewfik 02:04, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Image:MS post histadruth.jpg

Hi Abu ali,

I could find no sign of any copyright information on the link that you provided. Could you please point to where the image is associated with the {{cc-by-2.5}} that you added? Thanks, Tewfik 02:17, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

1. Isaiah Berlin: In his own lifetime Engels desired no better fate than to live in the light of Marx's teaching, perceiving in him a spring of original genius which gave life and scope to his own peculiar gifts; with him he identified himself and his work, to be rewarded by sharing in his master's immortality. From Berlin's Karl Marx, 4th edition, p. 75. This description covers several aspects of what it might be to stand too close to a subject.