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I've just archived the talk page, as it was 182KB - much over the recommended maximum of 32KB. 0L1 Talk Contribs 23:49 15/12/2006 (UTC)

Firefox Speed

The Firefox speed section uses references to very old benchmarks on old equipment. The Softpedia uses Firefox and Swiftfox 1.5. The Softpedia page was made on 30th of November 2005. The Browser Speed Tests are based on Firefox 1.0 and Firefox 1.5 and 2.0 beta versions. The site is also a private site listing the findings of only one person with no editorial oversight and is therefore not a creditable source per its home page. APC magazine is also based on Firefox 1.5.0.6 a very old build. If we cant find information on the 2.0 version from a reliable source the section needs to be removed IMHO. Secondly we do not need Firefox benchmarks on the Swiftfox page. Comparing the speed of Firefox vs Swiftfox is something that needs to be done on a article we link to. Doing this here is original research . This page is also about Swiftfox, not the short comings of Firefox IMHO. Kilz 19:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, the age of the tests and the credentials of their author make this info suspect. Otoh, I disagree that this is inappropriate info in this article. If perceived or actual speed issues in firefox led to the development of this project, then info about these issues and the extent to which they are corrected is among the most relevant info on the page. I recommend replacing the relevance tag with an "out of date" warning, to push for more reliable sources. Thomas B 19:13, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

We have no citation regarding why Swiftfox was created. I placed a request for that citation awhile back. As it is now we cant prove why it was created Kilz 23:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Thomas B. They are relevant. They are not perfect, but if you know better speed tests then please replace. Please comment here if you also consider the relevancy tag needs removing now that it has an additional warning. Widefox 00:06, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

REMOVE relevance tag - Y Widefox 00:06, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Thomas B said that they should stay if it is shown that it was relevant to the creation of the application. We have no proof from creditable sources why Swiftfox was created.Kilz 12:50, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Everyone can read the above and decide for themselves. I wish to gain consensus on this Kilz and move on. Please leave space here for others to comment, as is the process. Widefox 19:29, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Note that the reference 12 is the same one used in the main article Firefox which is a Star rated article. Therefore, this section is both relevant and the reference is acceptable. Therefore considering 2 people consider this relevant, and only Kilz objects, I will remove. Widefox 08:30, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

All of these pre-FF 2.0 test references are now labelled as such. Thomas B - is that how you wanted it? Widefox 09:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Per your own words "Please leave space here for others to comment, as is the process." stop seeking to influence people. Stop removing the tag while it is still under discussion, as I read Thomases words , he suggests replacing the tag with another one, not its complete removal As you have done while this is still under discussion. Kilz 11:41, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Let Thomas B, me and others speak for ourselves! Widefox 13:47, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I think the section should be removed if current information is not avaliable. It is dealing with an older version. The current article is based on firefox 2.0. The browser speed test site is also a private site and not a reliable source. Loki144 16:04, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism of Widefox

On March 26th user Widefox made a controversial edit that removed requests for citations and tags labeling areas relevance and neutrality. This is WP:VAND blanking. User Widefox is asked to discuss these edits before repeating them.Kilz 22:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand your revert Kilz. You have reverted multiple edits without discussing - reverting should be a last resort, not first resort. I have reinstated the edits and to avoid conflict, have included the relevant tag (please see above for resolving that). I have removed the tags I placed due to the cleanup. Please discuss before reverting again, and let's get this last tag dealt with. Widefox 00:06, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, the first two edits you reverted removed no tags or content. Please explain why you have reverted those? Widefox 00:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Kilz - please read WP:VAND before accusing again, and discuss the content dispute (above) without such complications. Everyone can see there is no "deliberate" attempt to compromise wikipedia, and you have assumed bad faith, which is against the guidelines. FYI the procedure for real vandals is to inform them on their user page. Widefox 08:04, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

As stated above, do not redo the vandalism. You have removed multiple tags and requests for citation. This is blanking. Do not remove tags or requests for research unless you place a citation. Your removal of them without placing a citation alters the article to make it appear they were not needed. Removing tags without consensus is wrong. Your redoing the edits is continued vandalism and have been reverted Kilz 12:46, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

You have repeatedly reverted my edits without justification. You are not meant to revert because of content disputes. Please take to an admin if you consider vandalism, else remove your accusation. Widefox 19:29, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

This isnt a content dispute. You are intentionally blanking requests for citation on areas of what I consider original research you have added to the page. I will continue to replace them until you or someone else backs up the statements with links. Kilz 12:50, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

You are being uncivil in repeating vandalism claims while providing no evidence. Where is the missing citation request?! If you persist in incorrectly reverting, and being uncivil I shall take this to an administrator to have you banned as previously. Widefox 13:18, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

As of this edit , before you started there were requests for citations on claims you added. In this edit you removed them The citations were in place because IMHO the claims are original research. In fact they were part of the Firefox speed section above. You also removed a relevance tag, while a discussion on the topic was ongoing. This is blanking, not editing to improve the article, but removing things , not to improve the article, but to make you or your opinions look better. I am nethier being uncivil , or repeting things, because you a second time, after being told what you had done, you blanked the citation requests again. By the way, I know a lot more about the rules than I did last time you tried to twist them and play off accusations in one place against another claim. Your threatening me with a 3 revert rule , while the reverts were over multiple days was funny.Kilz 03:11, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I rewrote that section, therefore removing any possible objection. Kilz - please discuss the current article, not past versions. As to your accusations, they will be seen by all others as unfounded. Do you realise that Swiftfox is largely just a build of Firefox! It's really not that big a deal. Your attacks on the software and author Jason (see history of this page and your talk page for details), due to your licensing dispute with him are clearly creating a problem disproportionate to the importance of this article. Widefox 08:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Widefox, in one sentence you tell me to work on the present article, in the next you go into ancient history with a theory about me that is not true. There is no licensing dispute. Stick to the facts and not wild unproven theory's about me.

You again removed a request for the citations, even rewriting it a little will not change the fact that they are needed, I will just place requests where they are needed in the newest version. Either remove the claims, or add the citations, do not just change the wording of the section a little and remove them. Kilz 11:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

In your own words you got into a licence dispute with Jason and got banned from various forums including wikipedia. I do not want to go over that again - you have been outed already. Widefox 13:47, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Ancient history, that Jason stopped me from distributing Swiftfox is of no importance. You rely to much on it, he also stopped you from distributing it, and everyone else. My sole motivation is the improvement of this article and that it be as up to date and factual as possible.

But you seem to want to leave in old , nonfactual information, information from unreliable sources, and statements of fact that you cant back up. You then delete the requests for you to back up those statements. You are now twisting the words of another editor, when they plainly go against you and suggest placing an outdated information tag, instead you remove any tag. Looking above it looks like someone agrees with me that the section should be removed. So as I see it, there is one for keeping it, one for labeling it as old information, and 2 to remove it. 67.175.233.209 16:34, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

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