| Revision as of 18:29, 10 January 2024 editAjaxSmack (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers32,343 edits unblanked talk pageTags: Reverted Disambiguation links added← Previous edit |
Revision as of 18:49, 10 January 2024 edit undoMaranoFan (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, File movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers30,095 edits Resolved. Absolutely nobody is questioning whether "I Drink Wine" is the third single or questioning the article's GA status. What the HELL do you think you are doing?; Undid revision 1194782385 by AjaxSmack (talk)Tags: Replaced UndoNext edit → |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|1= |
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{{WikiProject Adele |class=GA |importance=high}} |
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{{WikiProject Adele |class=GA |importance=high}} |
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{{WikiProject Albums |class=GA |importance=low}} |
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{{WikiProject Albums |class=GA}} |
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{{WikiProject Pop music |class=GA |importance=low}} |
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{{WikiProject Pop music |class=GA |importance=low}} |
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{{WikiProject Women in music |class=GA |importance=low}} |
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{{WikiProject Women in music |class=GA |importance=low}} |
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{{old move|date=22 December 2023|from=30 (Adele album)|destination=30 (album)|result=moved|link=Special:Permalink/1192851591#Requested move 22 December 2023}} |
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{{old move|date=22 December 2023|from=30 (Adele album)|destination=30 (album)|result=moved|link=Special:Permalink/1192851591#Requested move 22 December 2023}} |
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== Edit warring over photo of Errol Garner == |
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Hello all. I am posting about this in response to an edit war over the inclusion of photo of Errol Garner in the article. User {{ping|70svinyl}} had added it the writing and recording section, before I removed it claiming it is giving undue weight and lacks pertinence to the text. The user then restored it, eventually in the songs section. In defense of its removal, I should add that in either section, Garner is an ancillary note, with his feature credit reduced to one line explaining it as a technicality because the actual recording one of the album tracks samples is based on a Garner composition. The span of the image and the supporting caption is grossly disproportionate to the actual content in this article about him. This to me is a simple case of an image lacking relevance to the article it is being used to illustrate. Relevant guidelines are ], ], ], etc. ] (]) 19:41, 28 January 2022 (UTC) |
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== "I Drink Wine", the third single? == |
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This has been warred over for a while now so a discussion should probably be had which can be pointed to when the IPs are reverted. The music video for "I Drink Wine" was recently released. reported that it "is just now being given the promotional push as the third single off the body of work following No. 1 smash 'Easy On Me' and its top 5 follow-up 'Oh My God.'" Since then, BBC has added it to one of its radio playlists, which does not count as a single release per ], and there have been no adds on the more reliable Italy and AllAccess sites. What does everyone think?--'']]'' 03:16, 30 October 2022 (UTC) |
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{{Talk:30 (album)/GA1}} |
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== Requested move 22 December 2023 == |
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<div class="boilerplate mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top --> |
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:''The following is a closed discussion of a ]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a ] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.'' |
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The result of the move request was: '''moved.''' There is an ] that PRIMARYTOPIC takes precedence over INCDAB. As noted in the nomination rationale, there is a 200:1 daily average pageview ratio in favour of the Adele album. There is consensus from this discussion that the Adele album is the primary topic by page views. Concerns raised in opposing comments regarding the intentional introduction of ambiguity are addressed in the editing guideline ]. <small>(])</small> <small>''''']''''' (])</small> 18:43, 4 January 2024 (UTC) |
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---- |
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] → {{no redirect|30 (album)}} – According to daily pageviews for this year, the ] averaged five views per day compared to ~1200 for the Adele album, i.e. 0.5%. The other albums with this title have apparently not been deemed notable enough for articles to be created for them. A Google search for "30 album" also only yields results about the Adele album, not requiring her name to be part of the search term, indicating a primary topic. '']]'' 16:09, 22 December 2023 (UTC) <small>— '''''Relisting.''''' ] (]) 07:32, 30 December 2023 (UTC)</small> |
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*'''Oppose''' the intentional introduction of ambiguity. ] (]) 16:19, 22 December 2023 (UTC) |
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:*It is not. With 99.5% of searchers for "30 (album)" looking for this article, it is just added concision. See hatnotes atop ], ], etc. to see how similar situations with obvious primary topics have been addressed in the past. The Connick Jr. album still fails to exceed 10 clicks even on a good day.--'']]'' 16:31, 22 December 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' per nom and ]. The 200+ to 1 pageview ratio seems to support this page as the primary topic.] (]) 18:17, 22 December 2023 (UTC) |
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**If it's the primary topic, it should be moved to simply ]. <small> — ] 17:41, 24 December 2023 (UTC)</small> |
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***Because you decided so? ].--'']]'' 20:06, 24 December 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' per TheWikiholic. The main title header "]" represents incomplete disambiguation and should redirect, as it currently does, to the ] dab page. —] <small>] • ]</small> 02:43, 23 December 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' per ]. This is a very clear case in which the Adele album is the primary topic by page views. It is readily apparent looking at the stark contrast in page views (). ] (]) 20:26, 23 December 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' per nom and ]. ] (]) 16:13, 24 December 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' the intentional introduction of ambiguity. It helps no reader. It hurts readers. ] (]) 01:57, 30 December 2023 (UTC) |
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::An exactly per Ajax below, if readers wanting this page “searching” by the Go box title complete function is your concern, removing “Adele” from the title removes the critical information that indicates the option is what they want. The proposal would make the wanted page look like a DAB page. It’s an all-negative outcome. ] (]) 23:50, 30 December 2023 (UTC) |
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::*If virtually all metrics prove every reader looking for an album called ''30'' is seeking the Adele album, forcing them to visit the existence of an obscure album they are ''not'' seeking is a net negative. Believe it or not, Misplaced Pages is not obligated to promote obscure projects not being sought out by anyone. There is no benefit in having people clicking on "30 (album)" go through a disambiguation page when the pageviews tool proves they end up going through to the Adele album and virtually nothing else. The practice of ] is a documented guideline, which was affirmed as a valid practice in the latest RfC. This is a discussion about whether PDAB applies here, not about what you think of the practice in general, and the numbers match ].--'']]'' 03:28, 31 December 2023 (UTC) |
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::*:{{tq|If virtually all metrics prove every reader looking for an album called ''30'' is seeking the Adele album, forcing them to visit the existence of an obscure album they are ''not'' seeking is a net negative}}? What? What are you talking about. With ] titled as is, no one is forced, or tempted, to visit any other page. However, if you make the title imprecise, ambiguous, and inconsistent, many wanting this page may go to a DAB page to work out where the page they want is. You’ve got the costs on the reader backwards. |
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::::*The "costs on the reader" (99.5% of whom are seeking the Adele album) are imposed when they search for "30 (album)" and are not directly taken to ], unnecessarily being taken to a dab page and having to make an extra click. If the move succeeds, ] will still redirect to the Adele album and it will not be to the detriment of anyone looking for that.--'']]'' 16:31, 31 December 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::*The Misplaced Pages search box has an unusual way of functioning. It prioritizes article names above redirect names. So if the article name is "30 (album)", it would de-prioritize "30 (Adele album)" so it would not appear in the list until enough characters are typed for only a small number of articles to match the value. — ] (]) 16:43, 31 December 2023 (UTC) |
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::*:{{tq| Believe it or not, Misplaced Pages is not obligated to promote obscure projects not being sought out by anyone}}? Again, what are you talking about? |
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::*:Ahh, you’re talking about people being tempted to go to the redirect ] that points to ], a disambiguation page? Yes, that is a negative, but instead of stuffing up this title, that redirect should be deleted. Although, why do you think people will “click on” that link that doesn’t get listed? |
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::*:Latest RfC? You mean the 2016 RfC? I think you misread the documentation and practice, and instead have adopted the title minimisation mindset damn the readers. In the end, this proposal helps no reader and hurts readers. ] (]) 05:06, 31 December 2023 (UTC) |
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::::*] and your general arguments are better placed as a !vote on a do-over of that, as none of them distinguish the ''30'' situation from the countless other PDAB RMs that have passed.--'']]'' 16:31, 31 December 2023 (UTC) |
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]] |
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*'''Oppose''' per ]. The nomination does not mention a problem that is being solved by this moved. If I search for "30" on Misplaced Pages's search bar, I get the Adele album in the results before I even enter a space after a number, i.e. I would never type "(album)" or "(Adele album)" or anything else. With search engines, typing "30 album" gets me the Adele album Misplaced Pages article as the first result; having "Adele" in the title offers clarity without inconveniencing me in the least. (See images for examples of both.) So what will a move to an ambiguous title gain readers? — ] 17:41, 24 December 2023 (UTC) |
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:*] appears in the search bar upon searching just "Thr", and ] appears upon searching just "198". Let's move those to more excessively disambiguated titles because the search algorithm benefits pages which get high pageviews! Absolutely crazy.--'']]'' 19:42, 24 December 2023 (UTC) |
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::*Yes (although for me those require one more character each), but it doesn't show ] until someone types "Thriller (M". The person doing the typing may not be completely sure that "Thriller (album)" refers to the Michael Jackson album. Personally, I think that including the artist name in the title of articles about their works is usually desirable when there are multiple topics with the same name. Once someone sees ] in the search box, they can be 100% assured of which topic that is, and the term "Taylor Swift" is more likely to visually jump out at a person looking for a Taylor Swift topic than "album" would. — ] (]) 16:43, 31 December 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''', its clearly the PRIMARYTOPIC for albums named 30, and passes ] with flying colors. Pretty much the same case as ], which had a straight consensus to move. — ] (]) (]) 22:41, 29 December 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' per ] and '']]''{{'}}s contributions to the discussion. Furthermore, there is a consensus that Adele's album is clearly more searched compared to other albums that share the same name, especially considering how the phrase "30 album" only started becoming a common search online when Adele released her album . The concern in this discussion is whether to distinguish any albums of the same name by different artists on Misplaced Pages, which arguably is defeated when Misplaced Pages has in the past. on Doja Cat's '']'' that some editors shared the same sentiment for opposing a move presented here, but it doesn't change the fact that the readers on this site are primarily going to search for what is currently topical but also monumental in the music scene -- not to mention Doja Cat's ''Hot Pink'' is also given the "(album)" suffix rather than "(Doja Cat album)", even though there is a ] that is given the same treatment as Harry Connick Jr.'s album. Therefore, I don't see a strong reason to oppose the move. <b style="border: 1px pink solid;background:#320A0A ">] ]</b> 04:26, 30 December 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' per ]. Adele's album is far more notable than the other similarly titled album. We don't do cherrypicking, if ], ], or ] can have such title, this album should not be an exception. ] (]) 13:07, 31 December 2023 (UTC) |
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*:Is there an underlining notion that ] is more prestigious than ]? Or easier to access? This seems utterly perverse. The only explanation I can imagine is that RM regulars are obsessed by adherence to titling guidelines, to the complete exclusion of what’s good for a reader. ] (]) 13:29, 31 December 2023 (UTC) |
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<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from ] --> |
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