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Reliability of sources listed at WP:ICTFSOURCES

I've observed that many users often refer to WP:ICTFSOURCES when assessing the reliability of sources used in articles related to Indian films/actors. I believe it's time to completely update the current list located at WP:ICTFSOURCES. Many of the sources listed there are involved in press releases, paid branding, and brand posts. The last discussion on this matter took place eight years ago, and within this timeframe, the credibility of many sources has likely changed. Therefore, I'm initiating a new discussion to update the list. I'm pinging @JavaHurricane as they discussed this matter in the NPP discord channel a few months ago. I'm also pinging users who participated in the previous discussion for their input. @Bollyjeff, @Cyphoidbomb. – DreamRimmer (talk) 08:02, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

I agree. Most of the sources are biased and paid. A certain concrete guideline must be set and preferably an RfC must be done to single out the actual tracker websites. Also, I should add that in down South, such tracker websites do not exist. Sites such as Pinkvilla only track the movies only if the movie makes headlines. Hence, that should also be kept in mind. The discrepancies between the actual collections and the publicized collections by the producers have caused multiple edit wars in many pages, especially in Malayalam movie pages. So, if we can get a consensus on that, it would be great. Thanks. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 13:14, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Hey all, I am starting this RfC for the abovementioned reason – to analyse the authenticity and reliability of current ICTFSOURCES, and to reassess and update the sources enlisted. Thanks. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 07:33, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

@The Herald, I plan to share my detailed thoughts when I have a bit more free time. In the meantime, would you mind listing the sources we typically use and sharing your opinion on each? This would be really helpful for streamlining the process and finding even better sources. – DreamRimmer (talk) 14:57, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Good plans here to update the list. I think also it should be merged into Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Film/Indian cinema task force/ICTF FAQ. The table format is more in line with Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Perennial sources, allowing for rationales and links to past discussions on each source. Something I've been meaning to tackle for a while. --Geniac (talk) 15:11, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

@DreamRimmer:, shall we revisit this RfC this weekend? Summer box office need a good guideline and pointers. What I was thinking is, let's just pick apart the ones under reliable section and scrutinize every single one and try to reach a consensus. A level 3 heading for each, which will help future editors to link faster and search faster. Savvy? The Herald (Benison) (talk) 03:48, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

• I have started an essay for better source analysis, which when completed, can incorporate this RfC results and can be transcluded into the page, or can even be made as an opinion/guideline essay. I am thinking of a table like WP:RS/P in alphabetical order for faster and easier navigation. Anyone can drop by and help out with suggestions or edits. Thanks and happy editing. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 08:29, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

The Herald, this is EXCELLENT. I think once complete, it will be easier to update in the same manner WP:RS/P is based on any future WP:RSN thread. --CNMall41 (talk) 22:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

 Done I have created a shortcut WP:ICTFSA (Yes, a pun on essay and Source Analysis as well). More sources can be added onto it from ICTFFAQ or after consensus from here or RSN. Thanks. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 04:38, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Good work Herald. – DreamRimmer (talk) 04:43, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

• Current sources listed as reliable:

Note: Please do not edit the verdict line there is no clear consensus in RS/P, or on RS/N or any talk pages. Only the clear consensus discussions are deemed automatically reliable.

Bollywood Hungama by Hungama Digital Media Entertainment

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Box Office India

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Business Standard

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Business Today

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

CNN-IBN's IBN Live

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Daily News and Analysis

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Deccan Chronicle

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Deccan Herald

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Dina Thanthi

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Dinakaran by Sun Group

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Filmfare

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Film Companion

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Firstpost

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Hindustan Times

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

India Today by Living Media

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Indiatimes by The Times Group

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Magna Publications

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Mid Day

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Mint (newspaper) by HT Media

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Mumbai Mirror by The Times Group

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

NDTV

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

News18 India

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Outlook

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

There are currently 17 uses of Outlook India "business spotlight." I believe the publication would be reliable OUTSIDE of that but these are paid-for articles. I would support reliability but maybe a note in the box that says those marked as "business spotlight" or sponsored should not be used as a reference (in the process of removing the 17 I linked to above once I get the time). --CNMall41 (talk) 06:54, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Verdict

Pinkvilla.com

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Rediff.com

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Screen (magazine)

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Sify

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

The Economic Times

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

The Express Tribune

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

The Financial Express

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Similar to the note on Outlook India above, First Post has sponsored content marked as "brand wagon" (often included in the URL as well). I have no comment on the reliability of the overall publication but will say the branded posts should not be used in my opinion. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:56, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Verdict

The Hindu Business Line

Included in RS/P?

Y

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Y

Comments

Subsidiary of The Hindu (WP:THEHINDU)

Verdict

Y Reliable source

The Hindu

Included in RS/P?

Y

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Y

Comments

Reliable per WP:THEHINDU

Verdict

Y Relaible source

The Indian Express

Included in RS/P?

Y

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Y

Comments

Reliable per WP:INDIANEXP

Verdict

Y Relaible source

The News Minute

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

The Statesman

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

The Telegraph

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

The Tribune

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

Zee News

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

1, 2

Comments

Zee News is owned by Zee Media Corporation. They also have other publications such as Daily News and Analysis. Not sure if we should address any of these individual or JUST Zee News for the purpose of the RfC. Just throwing it out there. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:42, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

DNA is already added in the RfC above. I'd say while we are at it, let's review all the sources. India.com is deemed unreliable per this discussion. So, that's out. I don't know other publications under them. If there are any that are used frequently, by all means add them to the miscellaneous category below. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 06:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Verdict

• In addition to the aforementioned sources, the following references are also brought up multiple times and are used in various pages.

Koimoi

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

OTTPlay.com

Included in RS/P?

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

Verdict

The Times of India

Included in RS/P?

WP:TOI

Discussed in RS/N or any talk pages?

Comments

• Per RS/P The Times of India is considered to have a reliability between no consensus and generally unreliable. It has a bias in favor of the Indian government and is known to accept payments from persons and entities in exchange for positive coverage. That puts TOI in either unreliable or no consensus region. It is generally unreliable for box office figures since I have seen them using Sacnilk.com and promotional figures a lot. They may be reliable for news articles, but IMO it all should be taken with a pinch of salt. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 05:29, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Verdict

Promotion of Rashmika Mandanna article to GA-Class

Hi, I was just wondering how I could improve Rashmika Mandanna's article in order to get it promoted to GA-Class, any tips would be massively appreciated. Thank you! Iknowthingsaboutstuff1 (talk) 21:18, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

You have to make sure it meets all the criteria listed at WP:GACR. Once you are confident that it does, then you can have someone copy-edit the prose as well. WP:GUILD is an option. Keivan.f 07:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Okay, that’s perfect, thank you! Iknowthingsaboutstuff1 (talk) 03:44, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

IBOS Network

Recently I removed now dead website ibosnetwork.com from some articles and it is used as a source on various other articles. Was it considered reliable a source when it was active? This was their about us page Sid95Q (talk) 20:07, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Filmibeat?

@Aadirulez8:@Kailash29792: Why is Filmibeat considered unreliable? This source is not gossip by any means. DareshMohan (talk) 19:05, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

DareshMohan, Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 397#Oneindia as a reliable source can throw some light on that. Thanks. — The Herald (Benison) (talk) 19:29, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

User POV

This user seem to have a POV (Telugu) which seem apparent in their edits. Have a look. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 21:09, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Can Pinkvilla be considered a reliable source ?

Can Pinkvilla be used a reliable source ? It is an Indian entertainment and lifestyle website. Goodfacts666 (talk) 03:06, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Consensus at ICTF and reliable sources noticeboard puts it as one of the best sources for movie related news and box office collections, sans gossip though. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 03:10, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Could you please link that consensus-discussion? The most recent discussion I found was from last summer:

• Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Film/Indian cinema task force/Archive 8#Pinkvilla is unreliable for box office figures

that does not seem to have consensus for its box-office being reliable at all in some cases, let alone "one of the best sources" as a general sense. DMacks (talk) 03:19, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Hey. Along with that discussion that reached nowhere, I found Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Film/Indian cinema task force/Archive 8#RfC on reliability of pinkvilla where it was discussed. It has been included in ICTFSOURCES for quite a while and since then, it was considered as an RS for film related material, sans gossip. Which is why I made the aforementioned statement. Now, for an indepth scrutiny, I had initiated a complete rewamping of all ICTFSOURCES a couple of months ago, a proper RfC, which is still open above. It's high time to re discuss all the sources listed in ICTFSOURCES. But for now, Pinkvilla is considered reliable per ICTFSOURCES, since some consensus was achieved in the past (can't put my finger on when and where, but I am guessing some 8 years ago) and it was not refuted till date.

Personally, I don't trust Pinkvilla for news, but with BO figures, I do. Especially since Boxofficeindia.com and Bollywoodhungama doesn't cover a vast majority of movies, especially the ones made down south. So, it's like a compromise. Other sources are totally useless, like Sacnilk, which is downright unreliable. Hence, Pinkvilla. But yes, I agree to the fact that we need to re visit the reliability and credibility of every single ones on ICTFSOURCES. Thanks and happy editing. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 03:43, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi The_Herald,

Please find the Talkpage discussion link as requested.

-> Pinkvilla was nothing but a network of photographers, and became popular after some photographs of Bollywood actress Sonam Kapoor clicked by them went viral, and they went into expanding from photographers into a website. SO, again my arguement is there are plenty of such websites which can post-anything just to get bytes/views. Hence can't be considered reliable.Goodfacts666 (talk) 04:41, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Good source for casting news, film developments, and box-office (and currently much better than the agenda-fuelled BOI). Gossip sections should be ignored though. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 06:29, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

The origins of the website in 2009 might be dubious, but over the years, the unreliable nature of the news was never properly established, though it was questioned multiple times due to the gossip sections. But so far, they have been consistent with box office figure reportings and other film related news, and hence they are considered to be a RS. Once again, we need to rewamp all the sources listed, which I'll kick off sometime this week or next. Thanks. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 06:51, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you The_Herald and Krimuk2.0 for clearing up the reliability matter on Pinkvilla. While we are have discussion on sources for films, is Koimoi reliable or unreliable? I see conflict in these two lists WP:ICTFSOURCES and WP:ICTFFAQ. One time I pointed an editor to WP:ICTFSOURCES since koimoi was not here on reliable list but then the editor pointed me to WP:ICTFFAQ because koimoi was listed there. Can we just have one list that we can point editors in question? RangersRus (talk) 13:04, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, such a list is undergoing creation right now, in my sandbox. Also, an RfC is going on above too. A merge of those two are critical. Also, Koimoi is generally considered on thw unreliable side of the spectrum. I don't use it ever. Thanks. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 13:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

I personally wouldn't use Koimoi anymore -- their clickbait-y articles have gone from bad to worse. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 17:15, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

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