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Revision as of 09:08, 22 July 2024

This is an archive of past discussions about The Tortured Poets Department. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2024

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loml 2001:E68:5470:4FD2:64F5:A492:DBEF:C287 (talk) 12:02, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. 〜 Askarion ✉ 12:09, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 April 2024

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it’s her 11 th album not 10th 2A00:23C8:6B00:7B01:9999:59F9:7CF4:61F8 (talk) 21:20, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

 Already done The article already says it's her eleventh. The only mentions of tenth I'm seeing are referring to the previous album. Jamedeus (talk) 21:50, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 April 2024 (2)

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The title of The Tortured Poets Department seems to be stylized in all uppercase (THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT) by apple music and a few times by Swift's team. The best choice would be to add a note as done with the evermore (2020 album by Taylor Swift) Misplaced Pages page. (e.g: The Tortured Poets Department (stylized in all uppercase)) 50.35.90.176 (talk) 23:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

References

1. https://music.apple.com/us/album/the-tortured-poets-department/1736268193

 Not done, see MOS:MUSICCAPS. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 10:43, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 April 2024

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Add a parenthesis that says(stylized in all uppercase). The evermore Misplaced Pages page is a good example. On Apple Music and Spotify the album is in all caps 2607:FB60:1011:2006:A413:3928:1E15:20E6 (talk) 01:16, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done, see MOS:MUSICCAPS. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 10:43, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Misplaced Pages talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton talk 05:16, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

• Comment or view
• Article history

• ... that Taylor Swift announced her upcoming eleventh studio album, The Tortured Poets Department, while accepting a Grammy for her album Midnights? Source: The New York Times
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Carachipampa
  • Comment: this woman's work ethic omg

Created by Louwasrobbed (talk). Nominated by MaranoFan (talk) at 17:19, 5 February 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/The Tortured Poets Department; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Article is new and long enough (created today, RPS 2545 B). Sourcing looks good to me and Earwig checks out (only flagged bits are the direct quotes, which are cited and correctly attributed). Hook is interesting and cited inline in the article. QPQ has been completed. Looks good to go. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 17:45, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

With 256 Edits and 122 editors over two days so this article is not stable. Lightburst (talk) 01:59, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

I will promote this, the article is looking stable now. 420k views wow. Bruxton (talk) 05:16, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 February 2024

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Remove

Digitalfawn (talk) 22:39, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 23:15, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

I think it's perfectly clear what change they want to be made: remove the hatnote. It's less clear to me why they think that should be done. BlueSwede92 (talk) 01:41, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Vinyl variants?

Can a list of all vinyl variants be added or is that redundant 2605:AD80:4F:91D4:60C4:CA9A:E60:8C0E (talk) 00:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 March 2024

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It is mentioned that the tortured poets only had a collector's edition for the manuscript, but it had a collector's edition for each bonus track limited edition. It should be changed. Sushiandrei (talk) 19:36, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. PianoDan (talk) 20:36, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Here are the links to the posts made by the official instagram account of Taylor Nation (Taylor Swift's management) showcasing the collector's edition cds of the other bonus tracks, the bolter, the albatross, and the black dog:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3cqS1_upTB/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3tDYvDPjiz/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4Gny9nup9u/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Sushiandrei (talk) 16:33, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

This seems to already be mentioned. Under § Background and release: Four physical editions of the album, each titled after and containing a bonus track, namely "The Manuscript", "The Bolter", "The Albatross", and "The Black Dog", have also been made available for purchase; Swift announced the latter three editions during the Asia-Pacific leg of the Eras Tour, her sixth headlining concert tour. What specific changes would you propose to this wording? 〜 Askarion ✉ 02:49, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

The Manuscript

Track length: 4:02 Swiftie4Eva (talk) 00:58, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done - no source provided. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 15:01, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

this album will include tracks such as "loml" that have fans wondering if her lyrical style will change or stay the same.

this album will include tracks such as "loml" that have fans wondering if her lyric writing will change or stay the same. 2001:56A:FC76:9500:3056:16C:3E0:F559 (talk) 02:08, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Track listing

Is it necessary to split the track listing simply because the artist has showcased it this way? Also, replacing Variety for BuzzFeed News also feels quite undue? Surely the "sides" are simply how they're to be split on vinyl, but is not how they're showcased for all physical / digital formats? A simple not over complete track listing showcase would better suit the article? livelikemusic (TALK!) 18:23, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree. A simple track listing would be better for the article. HorrorLover555 (talk) 18:34, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

I'll ask the inverse - why would we list it in any other way other than how the artist has listed it? - Fuzheado | Talk 21:04, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

WP:STATUSQUO. livelikemusic (TALK!) 21:23, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

I don't see the relevance. We don't synthesize our own listing style of what artists and composers put down as their structure (e.g. Symphony_No._5_(Beethoven)#Form, Akhnaten_(opera)#Synopsis, Hamilton_(musical)#Musical_numbers). We shouldn't do that here either. - Fuzheado | Talk 00:08, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Because that is clearly the back cover of the vinyl, and not how the track listing will be rendered digitally (which is how the majority of consumers will listen to the album, as that accounts for something like 90+% of music consumption), nor on CD or cassette. I'm not seeing some deliberate intention on Swift's part that the album is intended solely to be a vinyl experience or that the sides are themed or the like. I believe we should go back to how the songs were listed first, per User:Livelikemusic. In fact, this discussion should be for if we should split it into vinyl sides, not if we should go back to how it was in the first place. Ss112 13:53, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Until the album is actually released, the points above are WP:CRYSTAL ball speculation about the vinyl format. Concluding that the grouping is not important and should be flattened constitutes original research. Both of these practices are frowned upon. Instead, we should reflect what is in the source material/artwork and what reliable sources say about it. The main recording and entertainment industry news outlets are providing not just the raw list but the "sides" groupings as well: Variety, The Hollywood Reporter, Rolling Stone, Deadline, and more.

Even more, Entertainment Weekly raises the fact that "sides" may not just be sides:

So what does it all mean? There's a lot to potentially unpack here. The sides could just be the way the vinyls shook out, or maybe each grouping tells a different story, or utilizes a different sound — this is Swift after all.

For a community that should be assembling reliable knowledge, I'm astonished to see the arguments for removal of information when there are significant signals about their significance. Reproducing the track list as Swift has released it is the most accurate, responsible, policy-adhering, and logical thing to do. - Fuzheado | Talk 16:54, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages's music section hasn't been about reliable knowledge for a long time. Most of the editors probably don't respect the artistic format or understand the semantic value in things like title stylizations, for example. This is honestly what you get when a bunch of people who know nothing about what they are talking about, who have no training in linguistics, literature, historiography, or writing encyclopedias are allowed to set arbitrary rules and make changes every which way.

But this is why we are here - to check them. Misplaced Pages's guidelines are deliberately not set in stone for a reason.

I agree with you that we should not be removing meaning, and that some of the reasons meaning has been removed go completely against Misplaced Pages's neutrality (calling things "fan-driven" for example, would be in violation of this). Unfortunately, we have to change the current guidelines to be more sensible.

I do have to disagree though that putting tracks in an uncategorized list constitutes original research, because I don't think it does. It certainly removes meaning and historical facts, though. If only Misplaced Pages editors actually cared about those things. They seem to not know the purpose of what an Encyclopedia should be... Krixano (talk) 05:09, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

• Support restoring the original 16-track layout with no separation into vinyl sides. It's silly this is even something we're questioning. Ss112 13:55, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
• Restore the tracklist to standard layout per livelikemusic and Ss112. Dylx 16:15, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support per livelikemusic WildChild300 17:35, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
• I already agree with both Livelikemusic and Ss112, so Support. HorrorLover555 (talk) 03:43, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support per livelikemusic's and Ss112's arguments. It makes absolutely no sense to split the tracklists in all those different parts. It's not like each side represents a unique lyrical or sonic theme that sets it apart. Lk95 (talk) 12:52, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

  Your statement ventures into the area of original research. See the Entertainment Weekly piece described above. - Fuzheado | Talk 14:28, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

  That article is speculating, using words like "potentially" and "maybe", and has nothing to do with how the track list should be formatted in the table. It may be referenced in the "Composition" section but doesn't justify a formatting change like this. Dylx 14:35, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Music and lyrics

Tom Breihan encapsulated the sound of the album in his review, that I think it would enrich this section; "Musically, Swift has fallen into a holding pattern of soft-thrumming synthpop and even softer quasi-folk. The sounds and patterns — the gentle keyboard twinkles, the tick-tock drum machines, the shivery chords, the murmuring multi-tracked backup vocals — are all played out. (...) Swift continues to sing almost everything in her sleepy, whispery, conversational lower register, going for some version of Lana Del Rey’s languor. The sound is pretty. It’s rich and pillowy and reassuring and low-energy (...)." It would work for her artistry section too. Giorgio Zeniquel (talk) 22:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Album name

Technically the album is written in all caps, should we also write it that way ? It's written THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT on all official accounts. Diamant580 (talk) 18:07, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

@Diamant580: I don't think so. See WP:TITLEFORMAT and MOS:ALLCAPS for policies and guidelines related to using title case here. Bsoyka (t • c • g) 05:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

No, per MOS:MUSICCAPS, and in case it's suggested, I object to any attempt to place a pointless parenthesized "stylized in all caps" note here as well. (This practice ought to be phased out.) Ss112 08:23, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Why? Is wikipedia not intended to be an accurate representation of history? Removing stylizations makes wikipedia less useful for historical research because meaning is often tied to stylizations (like capitalizing certain letters that spell something out, as in the track "thanK you aIMee"). You are losing historical facts by doing this. Krixano (talk) 04:23, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

So is there a hidden meaning behind the stylization of the album name itself? Because as far as I can tell, stylizations for songs like "thanK you aIMee" are already noted in the article, and this discussion is about the capitalization of the album title. Bsoyka (t • c • g) 13:24, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Stylization information is very valuable. The fact that something was published written in all caps or all lowercase is useful information by nature. It allows the person to picture the stylization of the actual titles of and in the album without needing to actually find the album to know that tracks were stylized a certain way. It lets the reader know how the artist intended for it to be written. I do not know why this long-held practice is suddenly controversial and the subject of an edit war on this page with one user threatening to block other users who add this information? aaronneallucas (talk) 04:23, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm specifically referring to the fact that not even notations are being allowed on this article like "stylized in all caps". Why? aaronneallucas (talk) 04:25, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

The Anthology in lead

Shouldn't we also discuss briefly the production and sound of The Anthology in the lead? I did so in this old revision but as of the current revision it's been removed. Ippantekina (talk) 05:51, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Toronto Star

@Ronherry: what's with the double standard? You removed Toronto Star because it is "Not a prominent music publication" yet leave in four similar British newspapers that are not music publications either. In fact, you removed the Toronto Star review entirely from the article and did not even bother incorporating it in the prose. That's really egregious and goes against WP:FIXTHEPROBLEM. Toronto Star is one of the major newspapers in Canada and providing publications from varied locations aligns with WP:WORLDVIEW and WP:NPOV. I'm not saying it must be included in the reviews table, but I do not appreciate completely removing the source from the article as if it is useless and then leaving in four similar newspapers that are British that go against your own criteria. Heartfox (talk) 12:50, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

I removed it from the ratings box. I'm not against including it in the article. There is no need to type out such a passive aggressive text to express your concern regarding that. You're free to add Toronto Star to the critical reception prose if you want to. I thought it's a regional paper, and it's primarily not a music/art reviewing publication. The ratings box is for the standard music reviewing publications. Regards. ℛonherry☘ 13:02, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

And I have to reiterate that I'm currently working on the reception section. My plan was not to complete ignore Toronto Star. I would be more than happy to include it too. I apologise if it looked like I "removed" it. I meant to readd it later in the prose. I am an editor who cares very much about worldview and my worldview doesn't stop with Anglosphere but aims to include Asian and Latin American publications too if possible. I'm on your side. Just making that clear here. Have a nice day. ℛonherry☘ 13:07, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Music Genre for The Tortured Poets Department

The Music Genre for The Tortured Poets Department Alternative, folk pop, indie rock, soft rock, synth pop. It needs to be expanded in the Genre description. SectorKWiki19 (talk) 07:51, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done, no sources provided >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 12:34, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2024

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Please add the Toronto Star review of this album: https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/music/taylor-swift-drops-surprise-double-album-with-the-tortured-poets-department-a-31-track-odyssey/article_2912d06c-fe34-11ee-b922-df359d747dd3.html?utm_medium=SocialMedia&utm_source=Twitter Aislingmurphy64 (talk) 01:33, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. --Ferien (talk) 20:26, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2024 (2)

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Could you link the page for Clara Bow (song into the article (especially in the tracklist section)? 63.65.131.178 (talk) 16:02, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Clara Bow 63.65.131.178 (talk) 16:04, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

 Already done Irltoad (talk) 23:42, 22 April 2024 (UTC)