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Revision as of 03:31, 22 July 2024 editHurricane Clyde (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users3,168 edits →An apparently prolonged problem with the welcome center article: new sectionTag: New topic ← Previous edit		Revision as of 00:35, 27 July 2024 edit undoNoobThreePointOh (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers13,194 edits →Interstate 85 in North Carolina meeting GA criteria?: new sectionTag: New topic Next edit →
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	Copied from the United States WikiProject talk page. I know this article isn’t categorized under this WikiProject (it should be) but I’m posting it here too. As evidenced by talk page threads on this subject going back to at least 2018 (which as of this writing was nearly six years ago), there is an issue with certain welcome centers that are listed as being located at an exit that doesn’t exist. I cite two examples in West Virginia, one was listed as “exit” 10 on I-64 eastbound, when the closest exits are exit 8 and exit 11, so the correct terminology would be “mile marker” or “milepost” 10. The other is on I-68 westbound on the first turn off after crossing out of Maryland, it is supposedly located at exit 31, only again, that exit doesn’t exist. The first actual signed exit you encounter going westbound after entering West Virginia is exit 29. Again, it needs to be written as “mile marker” or “milepost”, not “exit”, unless it is signed as an exit (some states do but not all of them, you can probably confirm that on Street View). I corrected those two errors. But someone needs to go and check every single entry on that list and then make sure that the exit actually exists; and if it doesn’t, replace with “mile marker” or the like. Because I imagine those aren’t the only two errors there are in that article. ] (]) 03:31, 22 July 2024 (UTC)		Copied from the United States WikiProject talk page. I know this article isn’t categorized under this WikiProject (it should be) but I’m posting it here too. As evidenced by talk page threads on this subject going back to at least 2018 (which as of this writing was nearly six years ago), there is an issue with certain welcome centers that are listed as being located at an exit that doesn’t exist. I cite two examples in West Virginia, one was listed as “exit” 10 on I-64 eastbound, when the closest exits are exit 8 and exit 11, so the correct terminology would be “mile marker” or “milepost” 10. The other is on I-68 westbound on the first turn off after crossing out of Maryland, it is supposedly located at exit 31, only again, that exit doesn’t exist. The first actual signed exit you encounter going westbound after entering West Virginia is exit 29. Again, it needs to be written as “mile marker” or “milepost”, not “exit”, unless it is signed as an exit (some states do but not all of them, you can probably confirm that on Street View). I corrected those two errors. But someone needs to go and check every single entry on that list and then make sure that the exit actually exists; and if it doesn’t, replace with “mile marker” or the like. Because I imagine those aren’t the only two errors there are in that article. ] (]) 03:31, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

			== ] meeting GA criteria? ==

			Hi, everybody. Today, I finished wrapping up what I needed to write for this article. After taking several long looks at it and reading the article over and over, I wasn't sure, but I felt like it might meet GA criteria now (and yes, I know it was stripped of its GA status a few days ago; see ] for more information and the reassessment), and it does indeed seem to address all the points in the criteria listed. I haven't nominated it for GAN yet, but if anybody has any comments or feedback, please ping me here. Thanks. ] (]) 00:35, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Revision as of 00:35, 27 July 2024

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	U.S. roads portal This page is within the scope of the U.S. Roads WikiProject, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to state highways and other major roads in the United States. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.U.S. RoadsWikipedia:WikiProject U.S. RoadsTemplate:WikiProject U.S. RoadsU.S. road transport
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AARoads Wiki

Please join us over at the AARoads Wiki. We look forward to seeing you soon! Imzadi 1979 → 20:27, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

I sure hope that this project isn't shutting down. It would be unfortunate for us to cave to the opinions of non-content contributors at an RfC who probably don't even know how to read a map. Bneu2013 (talk) 02:16, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

I've marked the page as per this. 20:59, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

I just want to state for the record that I intend to continue maintenance of Washington articles as well as those I brought up to GA status in other states. I'm going to be contributing to both projects, albeit with less detail for roads articles on here. Sounder Bruce 04:27, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

In reality there are two more alternative sites we can choose from - Justapedia and Encycla. The former is a Misplaced Pages-like site that forked all contents from here last year and has lenient notability requirements. 5.181.21.208 (talk) 13:30, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

The I-90 dispute

discussion started by a sock LilianaUwU 21:17, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
The RFC here left very unconvincing results and ended in no consensus, with no end in sight to the decades-long debate of I-90 junctions. I think a clear discussion of how to connect policies and guidelines is needed here, especially with WP:OWNership of that article. RoadFan294857 (talk) 15:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC) I don't see how enforcing a guideline that has been in place for over a decade and used on hundreds of articles equates to ownership of a single article by a single person. I'll repeat what I said in the RFC. The point of the "10 junctions limit" is to keep the infobox at a manageable length so it doesn't crowd the body of the article. Maybe some of the longer road articles could support more than 10 and still keep the infobox from crowding out the article prose, I don't know. I think it would be a stronger argument to propose an alternative guideline and create sandbox copies of some o f our longer road articles with different infoboxes to demonstrate. I think that would be a more effective way to convince me. However what won't convince me is arguing for a one off exception to a guideline that's been in place for this long and on this many articles. As also I stated in the RFC, I'm so burned out on cleaning up after people who insert random junctions in the infobox that if I do vote to change the guideline I need to be convinced it's more workable, not less workable, or a one off special exemption. Otherwise, my vote will be to rid the infoboxes of the major junctions entirely. Dave (talk) 00:06, 7 July 2024 (UTC) I would probably come up with a guide regarding which highways should be included in the infobox. Here are my ideas: streets/roads without a signed state highway or with a signed non-controlled-access county highway should not be included unless the route begins/ends at the said street/road (e.g. eastern terminus of Interstate 72). include Interstates, U.S. routes, and state routes. Examples: Interstate 394 and M-10 (Michigan highway) This entry generally applies to short highways and local streets (local streets are beyond the scope of WP:USRD). otherwise, include Interstates, U.S. routes, and controlled/limited-access state routes. Examples: Illinois Route 83 and U.S. Route 101 in California otherwise, only include Interstates and U.S. routes. Examples: Illinois Route 1, U.S. Route 400, Interstate 41, and Interstate 90 in Indiana otherwise, only include Interstates (primary and auxiliary highways) Examples: Interstate 10 in Texas and Interstate 76 (Ohio–New Jersey) otherwise, only include primary Interstates Examples: Interstate 39 and Interstate 81 otherwise, only include primary major Interstates (generally I-X0 or I-X5) Examples: U.S. Route 6, Interstate 40 (except for the inclusion of I-27), and Interstate 90 This entry generally applies to some of the longest highways in the US. Again, these are just my ideas for creating some sort of guide. AlphaBeta135 talk 13:59, 7 July 2024 (UTC) I use a basic method, balancing a couple of considerations. The termini are always listed, period. For the intermediate junctions, I use a combination of: Prioritize by classifications: list all junctions with roadways of the same or higher classification, county road < state highway < US Highway < Interstate Highway; special routes may be one level lower than their parent. Prioritize by physical configuration: undivided highway < divided highway < expressway < freeway, dropping the lower classifications. Prioritize by geography, making sure they're spaced out. Prioritize by number, dropping less major designations of a classification. For US Highways, 2dUS numbers outrank 3dUS, and 2dUS that end in 1 or 0 are major. For Interstates, 2dIs outrank 3dIs, and 2dIs that end in a 5 or 0 are major. Another way to judge is by the length of the intersecting highway; longer intersecting highways win over shorter ones. Imzadi 1979 → 21:12, 7 July 2024 (UTC) In that case, I'd say I-87 is better then the second I-80 junction, since I-87 is in the state of New York, which has no junctions, and I-75 already has an intersection in Ohio. Plus, we should not have the same interstate repeat twice.--RoadFan294857 (talk) 22:04, 7 July 2024 (UTC) What is your ultimate goal? Is it to change the guidelines to allow for more than 10 junctions on longer articles? Or is it to keep the 10 junction guideline, but replace some of the ones currently listed?Dave (talk) 22:44, 7 July 2024 (UTC) Personaly I'd prefer if we allowed more then ten, especially on highways over 3,000 miles - I feel that the amount of junctions allowed should be somewhat proportional to the length of the road. --RoadFan294857 (talk) 22:04, 9 July 2024 (UTC) As luck would have it, an IP vandal provided us with a preview of what the infobox would look like with a lot more junctions. Here the infobox is indeed too long. It's causing stacking on my monitor with the table of contents (yes I still use the "old" skin. I don't like the Vector 2022 makeover) and the state lengths table. But is there an old revision that has, say 11 or 12 junctions we could look at? I'm not opposed to the idea that longer articles could have more junctions. But as I stated in the RFC, as problematic as this has been, we need a rock solid wording to the guideline, as I can guarantee you as soon as we say "ok these articles can have more" we'll have a rush of people adding more junctions to even short highway articles. Dave (talk) 05:11, 10 July 2024 (UTC) I agree with leaving everything as status quo. By adding more junctions to the infobox, it makes everything too long and cluttered. NoobThreePointOh (talk) 05:14, 10 July 2024 (UTC) It's worse on the new skin. That length of infobox on my screen pushes the first photo almost to the end of the first RD subsection. I understand that 10 junctions is an arbitrary limit, but as Dave says, if we allow some articles to go to 12, people will put 12 in any article. I think for a while we silently allowed 11 on US 1 or I-95, but current revisions put them back at 10. Imzadi 1979 → 05:48, 10 July 2024 (UTC) Not only that, but if something like that happens, there might be a higher chance of edit-warring on the articles with subject A saying "There needs to be more than 10!" and subject B saying "No! It needs to cap at 10!" I'm not sure, but edit-warring will definitely increase if this happens. NoobThreePointOh (talk) 05:52, 10 July 2024 (UTC) As said in the RFC, I dont think leaving the status quo that is widely objected to is a good idea. --RoadFan294857 (talk) 11:11, 10 July 2024 (UTC) Notes ^ unless such list would exceed ten junctions

discussion started by a sock LilianaUwU 21:17, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

The RFC here left very unconvincing results and ended in no consensus, with no end in sight to the decades-long debate of I-90 junctions. I think a clear discussion of how to connect policies and guidelines is needed here, especially with WP:OWNership of that article. RoadFan294857 (talk) 15:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't see how enforcing a guideline that has been in place for over a decade and used on hundreds of articles equates to ownership of a single article by a single person. I'll repeat what I said in the RFC. The point of the "10 junctions limit" is to keep the infobox at a manageable length so it doesn't crowd the body of the article. Maybe some of the longer road articles could support more than 10 and still keep the infobox from crowding out the article prose, I don't know. I think it would be a stronger argument to propose an alternative guideline and create sandbox copies of some o f our longer road articles with different infoboxes to demonstrate. I think that would be a more effective way to convince me. However what won't convince me is arguing for a one off exception to a guideline that's been in place for this long and on this many articles. As also I stated in the RFC, I'm so burned out on cleaning up after people who insert random junctions in the infobox that if I do vote to change the guideline I need to be convinced it's more workable, not less workable, or a one off special exemption. Otherwise, my vote will be to rid the infoboxes of the major junctions entirely. Dave (talk) 00:06, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

I would probably come up with a guide regarding which highways should be included in the infobox. Here are my ideas:

streets/roads without a signed state highway or with a signed non-controlled-access county highway should not be included unless the route begins/ends at the said street/road (e.g. eastern terminus of Interstate 72).
include Interstates, U.S. routes, and state routes.
- Examples: Interstate 394 and M-10 (Michigan highway)
- This entry generally applies to short highways and local streets (local streets are beyond the scope of WP:USRD).
otherwise, include Interstates, U.S. routes, and controlled/limited-access state routes.
- Examples: Illinois Route 83 and U.S. Route 101 in California
otherwise, only include Interstates and U.S. routes.
- Examples: Illinois Route 1, U.S. Route 400, Interstate 41, and Interstate 90 in Indiana
otherwise, only include Interstates (primary and auxiliary highways)
- Examples: Interstate 10 in Texas and Interstate 76 (Ohio–New Jersey)
otherwise, only include primary Interstates
- Examples: Interstate 39 and Interstate 81
otherwise, only include primary major Interstates (generally I-X0 or I-X5)
- Examples: U.S. Route 6, Interstate 40 (except for the inclusion of I-27), and Interstate 90
- This entry generally applies to some of the longest highways in the US.

Again, these are just my ideas for creating some sort of guide. AlphaBeta135 talk 13:59, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

I use a basic method, balancing a couple of considerations. The termini are always listed, period. For the intermediate junctions, I use a combination of:

Prioritize by classifications: list all junctions with roadways of the same or higher classification, county road < state highway < US Highway < Interstate Highway; special routes may be one level lower than their parent.
Prioritize by physical configuration: undivided highway < divided highway < expressway < freeway, dropping the lower classifications.
Prioritize by geography, making sure they're spaced out.
Prioritize by number, dropping less major designations of a classification. For US Highways, 2dUS numbers outrank 3dUS, and 2dUS that end in 1 or 0 are major. For Interstates, 2dIs outrank 3dIs, and 2dIs that end in a 5 or 0 are major. Another way to judge is by the length of the intersecting highway; longer intersecting highways win over shorter ones.

Imzadi 1979 → 21:12, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

In that case, I'd say I-87 is better then the second I-80 junction, since I-87 is in the state of New York, which has no junctions, and I-75 already has an intersection in Ohio. Plus, we should not have the same interstate repeat twice.--RoadFan294857 (talk) 22:04, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

What is your ultimate goal? Is it to change the guidelines to allow for more than 10 junctions on longer articles? Or is it to keep the 10 junction guideline, but replace some of the ones currently listed?Dave (talk) 22:44, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Personaly I'd prefer if we allowed more then ten, especially on highways over 3,000 miles - I feel that the amount of junctions allowed should be somewhat proportional to the length of the road. --RoadFan294857 (talk) 22:04, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

As luck would have it, an IP vandal provided us with a preview of what the infobox would look like with a lot more junctions. Here the infobox is indeed too long. It's causing stacking on my monitor with the table of contents (yes I still use the "old" skin. I don't like the Vector 2022 makeover) and the state lengths table. But is there an old revision that has, say 11 or 12 junctions we could look at? I'm not opposed to the idea that longer articles could have more junctions. But as I stated in the RFC, as problematic as this has been, we need a rock solid wording to the guideline, as I can guarantee you as soon as we say "ok these articles can have more" we'll have a rush of people adding more junctions to even short highway articles. Dave (talk) 05:11, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree with leaving everything as status quo. By adding more junctions to the infobox, it makes everything too long and cluttered. NoobThreePointOh (talk) 05:14, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

It's worse on the new skin. That length of infobox on my screen pushes the first photo almost to the end of the first RD subsection.

I understand that 10 junctions is an arbitrary limit, but as Dave says, if we allow some articles to go to 12, people will put 12 in any article. I think for a while we silently allowed 11 on US 1 or I-95, but current revisions put them back at 10. Imzadi 1979 → 05:48, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Not only that, but if something like that happens, there might be a higher chance of edit-warring on the articles with subject A saying "There needs to be more than 10!" and subject B saying "No! It needs to cap at 10!" I'm not sure, but edit-warring will definitely increase if this happens. NoobThreePointOh (talk) 05:52, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

As said in the RFC, I dont think leaving the status quo that is widely objected to is a good idea. --RoadFan294857 (talk) 11:11, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Notes

^ unless such list would exceed ten junctions

An apparently prolonged problem with the welcome center article

Copied from the United States WikiProject talk page. I know this article isn’t categorized under this WikiProject (it should be) but I’m posting it here too. As evidenced by talk page threads on this subject going back to at least 2018 (which as of this writing was nearly six years ago), there is an issue with certain welcome centers that are listed as being located at an exit that doesn’t exist. I cite two examples in West Virginia, one was listed as “exit” 10 on I-64 eastbound, when the closest exits are exit 8 and exit 11, so the correct terminology would be “mile marker” or “milepost” 10. The other is on I-68 westbound on the first turn off after crossing out of Maryland, it is supposedly located at exit 31, only again, that exit doesn’t exist. The first actual signed exit you encounter going westbound after entering West Virginia is exit 29. Again, it needs to be written as “mile marker” or “milepost”, not “exit”, unless it is signed as an exit (some states do but not all of them, you can probably confirm that on Street View). I corrected those two errors. But someone needs to go and check every single entry on that list and then make sure that the exit actually exists; and if it doesn’t, replace with “mile marker” or the like. Because I imagine those aren’t the only two errors there are in that article. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 03:31, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Interstate 85 in North Carolina meeting GA criteria?

Hi, everybody. Today, I finished wrapping up what I needed to write for this article. After taking several long looks at it and reading the article over and over, I wasn't sure, but I felt like it might meet GA criteria now (and yes, I know it was stripped of its GA status a few days ago; see the talk page for more information and the reassessment), and it does indeed seem to address all the points in the criteria listed. I haven't nominated it for GAN yet, but if anybody has any comments or feedback, please ping me here. Thanks. NoobThreePointOh (talk) 00:35, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

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