Talk:Persecution of Uyghurs in China: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 07:16, 2 August 2024 editPincrete (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers51,190 edits →Incorrect citation?: ReplyTag: Reply ← Previous edit		Revision as of 13:40, 3 August 2024 edit undoShibbolethink (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Page movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers28,577 edits →Excessive references to Adrian Zenz: replyTag: CD Next edit →
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	:It’s likely more once you dig into sources as well; there’s a significant degree of circular reporting involving Zenz. I agree with your idea generally but it’s better to approach in a concrete way. What’s the specific edit or edits you want to make to address the issue? ] (]) 14:02, 7 June 2024 (UTC)		:It’s likely more once you dig into sources as well; there’s a significant degree of circular reporting involving Zenz. I agree with your idea generally but it’s better to approach in a concrete way. What’s the specific edit or edits you want to make to address the issue? ] (]) 14:02, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
	:But he's not a "leading scholar" and his evidence has been endlessly debunked. ] (]) 11:58, 15 July 2024 (UTC)		:But he's not a "leading scholar" and his evidence has been endlessly debunked. ] (]) 11:58, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
			:A single person is not a secondary source. A secondary source is a conglomeration of the author, the reviewers, editors, editing policy, and institution where the work is published, combined with the filter of the secondary review of the primary material. — ] <sup>(]</sup> <sup>])</sup> 13:40, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

	== Remove Radio Free Asia Sources ==		== Remove Radio Free Asia Sources ==

Revision as of 13:40, 3 August 2024

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view · edit Frequently asked questions Q1: When was consensus established to name the page Persecution of Uyghurs in China? A1: The current title reflects the consensus established in the most recent move discussion (22 January 2024). Two previous widely attended move discussions (30 June 2020 and 1 April 2021) had resulted in this page being titled Uyghur genocide. Please see Logs and discussions below for the full list of move discussions. In these discussions, editors discussed reporting from reliable sources in light of WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CRITERIA, the first two times establishing an affirmative consensus that the title "Uyghur genocide" is an appropriate name for the article. The third debate, immediately following a 12 January 2024 discussion that was closed as "not moved", citing WP:NCENPOV as the naming convention guideline justifying a shift to the new name.

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Persecution of Uyghurs in China was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
February 1, 2020	Articles for deletion	Kept
February 11, 2021	Good article nominee	Not listed

A news item involving this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the "In the news" column on September 2, 2022.

Current status: Former good article nominee

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Logs and discussions:

Discussions:

RM, Ethnocide of Uyghurs → Cultural genocide of the Uyghurs, Moved, 4 February 2020, (discussion)
RM, Cultural genocide of the Uyghurs → Cultural genocide of Uyghurs, Moved, 16 February 2020, (discussion)
RM, Cultural genocide of Uyghurs → Uyghur genocide, Moved, 30 June 2020, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Persecution of Uyghurs, Not Moved, 3 February 2021, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Uyghur cultural genocide, Not Moved, 1 April 2021, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Repression of Uyghurs in China, Not Moved, 5 September 2021, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Uyghur ethnocide, Not Moved, 20 September 2023, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Uyghur genocide accusation, Not Moved, 12 January 2024, (discussion)
RM, Uyghur genocide → Persecution of Uyghurs in China, Moved, 22 January 2024, (discussion)

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Excessive references to Adrian Zenz

Adrian Zenz, a senior fellow at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, is referenced 6 times in the Mass detention section and 6 times in the IUDs and birth control section. An over-reliance on research produced by him, despite that he is a heavily interested character in this issue, serves against the credibility and quality of this article. As a leading scholar his findings should be mentioned, of course, but not without qualification or alternative sources and data. NipponGinko (talk) 06:46, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

It’s likely more once you dig into sources as well; there’s a significant degree of circular reporting involving Zenz. I agree with your idea generally but it’s better to approach in a concrete way. What’s the specific edit or edits you want to make to address the issue? JArthur1984 (talk) 14:02, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

But he's not a "leading scholar" and his evidence has been endlessly debunked. 2001:1C02:3019:2750:B0C0:AADE:226D:66E (talk) 11:58, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

A single person is not a secondary source. A secondary source is a conglomeration of the author, the reviewers, editors, editing policy, and institution where the work is published, combined with the filter of the secondary review of the primary material. — Shibbolethink 13:40, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Remove Radio Free Asia Sources

Government propaganda has no place on Misplaced Pages. 23.28.148.2 (talk) 14:04, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:RADIOFREEASIA, RFA is considered reliable: Per the result of a 2021 RfC, editors have established that there is little reason to think RFA demonstrates some systematic inaccuracy, unreliability, or level of government co-option that precludes its use. — Czello 14:07, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Denial of abuses

Should Uyghur genocide denial have it's own article?, I've seen a fair amount of people on the internet who deny it's happening Consistently Heinous (talk) 21:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

I’m not sure there’s enough content on the denial itself to generate a separate article, but it should definitely be included in this one. Butterdiplomat (talk) 23:26, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

I concur with Butterdiplomat's doubts about the volume being enough to start a new article. Personally I only know of a handful of 'apologist' news sites. Bear in mind that you will need independent WP:RS saying what person X/organisation Y/ group Z claim is/isn't happening and they would specifically need to say what kind of 'denial' (denial of mistreatment/ or acknowledging mistreatment, but arguing that it doesn't constitute 'genocide' for example). I'm aware of these pitfalls because of similar articles. Pincrete (talk) 05:26, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Those are straight up tankies and I suggest you sever all contact with them 166.198.175.17 (talk) 07:27, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 July 2024

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Please add Violence against Muslims in independent India and Demolition of the Babri Masjid article in the "See also" section of the article. Just like persuasion has taken place in China against Muslims, similarly, it happens in India too. Its quite similar the way discrimination happens. Thanks 2409:40E0:59:8056:506E:F081:4C96:898F (talk) 17:24, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Not done: Outside the scope of the article – macaddct1984 20:03, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Incorrect citation?

In Background - Xinjiang conflict - People's Republic of China (1949–present), there is the sentence:

"In February 1997, a police roundup and execution of 30 suspected "separatists" during Ramadan led to large demonstrations, which led to a PLA crackdown on protesters resulting in at least nine deaths in what became known as the Ghulja incident,"

which has footnote 63, which leads to "China: Human Rights Concerns in Xinjiang" (https://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/asia/china-bck1017.htm) from Human Rights Watch. On that page, regarding the events of 1997, the page only seems to discuss two episodes, demonstrations that were suppressed in February 1997, and some bombings that took place in March 1997. The HRW page doesn't mention the execution of 30 suspected seperatists as a reason for the demonstration, or mention any cause of the demonstration, so I think the citation is used incorrectly here. Or the information may be in the article and I missed it.

I suggest that a new citation be added, which leads to the information about the 30 executed persons, instead of/in addition to the HRW citation.

I am new to wikipedia, please forgive me if there is anything that I have overlooked. L'étatisme (talk) 00:53, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Or if there is any additional information that I should provide. L'étatisme (talk) 00:54, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

You appear to be correct. Thanks. I've added a tag in the hope that someone will correct/remove the unsupported text/citation. Pincrete (talk) 07:16, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

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