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Revision as of 16:11, 4 October 2024

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Background section too large?

Ping OdNahlawi - Are these two mass injection of background material really needed for this article Special:Diff/1248822098 Special:Diff/1248823071? A lot of this is questionably copy/pasted verbatim from other Misplaced Pages articles and could be made much more brief. - Fuzheado | Talk 17:28, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

I agree. They should be summarized significantly.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 07:33, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

== 2 casualty - a Palestinian died from the Iranian attack == 68 year old Israeli man dies from heart attack.

From Ynet in Hebrew - https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/hk00uv2kar אלון סול (talk) 17:52, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

It's been added. Procyon117 (talk) 18:04, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 October 2024

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8 israelis killed in tel aviv,israeli tanks destroyed — Preceding unsigned comment added by Хончик (talk • contribs) 18:36, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 18:41, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

It is in a seperate attacks at a train/tram station that was actually few hours before this. I removed that.Sportsnut24 (talk) 03:12, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Casualties

8 israelis killed Israeli tanks destroyed 84.54.72.132 (talk) 18:51, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Source of you bs? 147.235.205.61 (talk) 20:39, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Do you mean the recent shooting? Drsmartypants(Smarty M.D) (talk) 21:39, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, there is a seperate article on wiki already. The IP is talking nonsense. Sportsnut24 (talk) 03:13, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Number of missiles

The lead says "about 200 missiles", CNN is saying "Iran fired 180 projectiles" per Israel military () 46.222.189.150 (talk) 19:47, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Reuters currently state "nearly 200" missiles per the Israeli Army. Sky News are reporting the same (200), quoting Israeli Army Radio. However the BBC state "approximately 180" citing the IDF. The Guardian says "nearly 200". It doesn't seem immediately clear right now. GhostOfNoMan 20:09, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

It looks like the BBC's figure (180) citing the IDF was roughly correct, and it's now being widely reported as 181 missiles; some of the above news articles have updated their figures to match. GhostOfNoMan 11:46, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 October 2024 (2)

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Casualties 8 israelis killed Israeli tanks destroyed Хончик (talk) 19:49, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Seems the 8 (or 6) casualties aren't properly speaking product of the Iran attack, but an stabbing attack, 46.222.189.150 (talk) 19:56, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Mr. Komori (talk) 20:42, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

The two are not related. this was also for haniyeh's assassination.Sportsnut24 (talk) 01:07, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:September 2024 Lebanon strikes which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 19:55, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguation

@Fuzheado: See WP:NAMB. Hatnotes are not for related articles. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 22:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

That's not exactly that relevant guideline to this situation. The reason why that disambig is valid is because that article used to be called "2024 Iranian strikes against Israel" which can cause a lot of confusion. - Fuzheado | Talk 01:20, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Why only missile interceptions shown in info box and not impact?

Why only missile interceptions shown in info box and not impact? Is Misplaced Pages also pro-Israeli? 202.47.36.141 (talk) 00:00, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Someone missed the Fundamental attribution error lecture. In all seriousness, we just don't have that info yet; it's only been 12 hours. If you can locate a reliable, secondary source that contains that information, make an edit request to have it included. But please refrain from making blanket accusations like that, it's not helping anyone. 🏵️Etrius ( Us) 03:32, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Remove bias

The text "It has been suggested that with the leadership of Hezbollah decimated and other militias weakened, the Iranian regime, already unpopular with its citizens and vulnerable to attacks, may accelerate its pursuit of nuclear weapons.", particularly the bold parts, clearly imply bias (with the usage of "regime") and convey redundant information ("...unpopular with its citizens and vulnerable to attacks..."), which can be deemed rather unnecessary by readers. So how about you make it more neutral? Wirmaple73 (talk) 01:03, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Done. Sportsnut24 (talk) 01:08, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Missiles

It says some of the missiles were launched from the outskirts of Tehran. That's 1000 miles from Israel, and the range of the Fattah missile is supposed to be only 870 miles. — THORNFIELD HALL 02:05, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

We'll know more in the next day or two. Also, tehran is further north and other places are closer.Sportsnut24 (talk) 03:11, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Edit request

Hello. I'm Noam from Israel. Yesterday I was taking shelter from the rockets from Iran to my country Israel. I live in Jerusalem. I'd like to help you guys with improving the article, but because of the protection, I cant. Can you explain how to send an edit request? I'm new to wikipedia. Noam Atadgy (talk) 02:58, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Use {{edit extended-protected|October 2024 Iranian strikes against Israel}} Sportsnut24 (talk) 03:08, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello Noam,

I would like to comment and say you will very likely not receive ECP access. This talk page allows you to ask ECP users and request that a particular topic or a correction be made. Just post what you want here and a ECP user will review it and choose to add it if need be. 192.184.149.115 (talk) 06:28, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Add maybe, something like, "The war had led to extreme depression, anxiety, frustration, anger and fear for the israeli people"? Noam Atadgy (talk) 14:27, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Sportsnut24: I hope you don't mind, I inserted the word "Use" before the edit request template and referenced the template with Tlx, so the template is named rather than displayed. It makes no sense to display the template without an actual request. —Anomalocaris (talk) 06:48, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Add maybe, something like, "The war had led to extreme depression, anxiety, frustration, anger and fear for the israeli people"?? Noam Atadgy (talk) 14:27, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

The cameras

The movies that people of Israel and Gaza take with phone , show us that many damages! How they say there's nothing?! 5.52.11.211 (talk) 04:01, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

power of YHWH31.206.52.66 (talk) 11:48, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Iran's justification

Iran has offered wordy justifications for the strikes. I've phrased them as follows:

Iran said the attack was in "self-defense", and cited the assassination of Hassan Nasrallah and other Hezbollah commanders, the assassination of Ismail Haniyeh (inside Iran) and killing of Iranian general Abbas Nilforoushan.

I'm open to rewording. Here are some points:

• Several sources point out that Iran cited Article 51 and the right of self-defense for the strikes:
• Abbas Nilforoushan was an Iranian general, not a Hezbollah commander, I think that's important to mention
• While Nasrallah was killed in Lebanon, Haniyeh was killed inside Iran and that I feel is significant too. WaPo for example points out that he was killed in Tehran.

VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 06:28, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Thai Prime minister reaction

Source in thai Thai Prime Minister prepares for potential evacuation of Thai migrant workers Pataratorn (talk) 07:04, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Prior Iran-Israel attacks

I've added prior Iran-Israel attacks of April 2024:

• Israeli airstrike on the Iranian consulate in Damascus
• April 2024 Iranian strikes against Israel
• 2024 Israeli strikes on Iran

I think all are significant, although the amount of space to be given to each is debatable. Maybe we should summarize them. But for now, the article length isn't at all a concern.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 07:32, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Attack on Mossad headquarters, Nevatim and Hatzerim air base

The Iranian media reports an attack on Mossad headquarters, Nevatim and Hatzerim Air Force Bases, as well as radars and groups of Israeli tanks. Is there any confirmation of such statements? https://en.mehrnews.com/news/222293/Iran-to-hit-all-Israel-infrastructures-if-Zionists-not-curbed There is also information that the Iron Dome was ineffective against ballistic missiles and cruise missiles. This should be mentioned in the article 91.210.248.204 (talk) 08:16, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Note on inclusion of al-Mayadeen

I am about to add a citation of Al-Mayadeen for the casualties page. Al-Mayadeen is a deprecated source and is NOT reliable. However, on the basis of its connections to Iran, I believe that al-Mayadeen is a good source to use at the same time as a source which tells us *what it is the Iranian state claims*. What it says should be taken witha pinch of salt, obviously. But what should not be taken with a pinch of salt is that it did in fact say what it said.

Take the following analogy. Mein Kampf is not a reliable source for if Jewish Communists controlled the world. Obviously. It is however a reliable source to tell us that Hitler believed this was the case. similarly, with al-Mayadeen, what it says is not necessarily true. but what is true is that it did in fact say that, and that this reflects wha the Iranian state claims.

Thus, when placed under the qualifier of Iranian Claim I believe it can be used properly. Genabab (talk) 09:55, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

@ShovelandSpade Is it okay if we re-add the casualties section you reverted? It is my firm opinion that it needs to be included to represent the Iranian view of what happened, AND that this should be the case with the statement Iranian claims to denote that there is a decent chance the claims are not true. Genabab (talk) 10:25, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

I removed it because my edit reverted another users edit and I was reverting it to the original, youre going to have to get in touch with the person who made the edit prior to me I think it was @Viewsridge, however if its a nesr baseless claim its probably best kept away. ShovelandSpade (talk) 10:27, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Okay, well since you pinged them I'm sure they'll weigh in in a minute. But to reiterate, even if it is a propaganda claim. That's still reason to include it as Iran is ultimately making that claim. For the same reason that the invasion of gaza page lists the claims of Hamas over how many IDf it has killed which may or may not be true. But is still included to represent their claims Genabab (talk) 10:30, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Alright, I personally dont mind but it is a very dodgy claim that can be rebutted then its probably a better idea not to include it. ShovelandSpade (talk) 10:42, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

No Genabab. Nonsense claims from deprecated sources are not getting included. Stop pushing for Iran/Hezbollah propaganda. Viewsridge (talk) 12:16, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

@ViewsridgeI'd appreciate it if you gave an argument as to why. The case remains that, regardless of their veracity, they *are* claims that have ultimately still been made.

I understand that its probably not true (probably). But that doesn't matter. Because it likely not being true is addressed by the fact that it states "Iranian claim".

The fact of the matter is, this is already wikipedia's policy. Its why Hamas' claims for IDF casualties are included in the lede for the Israel-invasion of Gaza.

Dismiss it as propaganda all you want. I don't even disagree with you on that. The issue is, it doesn't matter if it is. What matters is that it is stated that these claims are out there and that we address the fact that they are likely not true. Anything else is essentially erasing half the story. Genabab (talk) 12:33, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

What I will say about this is if the claim can be easily rebutted it's probably better to not include it. Has Iran presented any actual evidence from a BDA (Battle damage assessment) or produced any kind of material to back their claim because with their same logic they can say they killed 3000 people and just go about their day. ShovelandSpade (talk) 13:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Demeage

In Hod Hasharon this morning we updated on no less than 100 houses that were damaged by the page and dozens of other buildings that were damaged by "more secondary circuits".

https://mobile.mako.co.il/news-military/036814c74a0e1910/Article-069891d1d6c4291027.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802&main_article=4 2.55.162.89 (talk) 10:15, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

adding this Genabab (talk) 12:39, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 October 2024 (3)

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Please change the hyphen in the section title § Previous Iran-Israel strikes (April 2024) to an en-dash, making § Previous Iran–Israel strikes (April 2024). 97.102.205.224 (talk) 10:21, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Fixed by User:Y. Dongchen , thanks! 97.102.205.224 (talk) 11:26, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

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Please change the article hatnote from {{For|the earlier attacks|April 2024 Iranian strikes against Israel}} to {{Distinguish|April 2024 Iranian strikes against Israel}}. I think the "Not to be confused with" wording of the latter is better in this case. 97.102.205.224 (talk) 10:39, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Much better to stay with the former. Ahri Boy (talk) 11:47, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Minor grammatical changes

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In the following two sentences, occurrences of "it's" should be corrected to "its":

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stated that Iran made a "big mistake" and that Israel will attack it's enemies anywhere in the Middle East."

"The American Israel Public Affairs Committee sent text messages to it's supporters and told them to contact their representatives and demand support for Israel against Iran." Wirmaple73 (talk) 11:14, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Looks like these have been corrected (courtesy of Chicdat). Thanks. GhostOfNoMan 11:30, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Fixed by User:Chicdat in Special:Diff/1248951189 and Special:Diff/1248951266. 97.102.205.224 (talk) 11:31, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the appreciation. —🐔 Chicdat   15:20, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Reactions

In the "Reactions" section the line starting with "The President of Cyprus Nikos Christodoulides called..." should be the start of a sub-section with the Cyprus reaction, I think. 46.222.189.150 (talk) 12:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 October 2024 (4)

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Can this be added to the section October_2024_Iranian_strikes_against_Israel#Others (below Japan).

•  Netherlands: The Dutch Minister of Foreign Affairs Caspar Veldkamp condemned the stike and told this over the telephone to the Iranian Minister of Foreign Affairs. Veldkamp urged the Iranian minister to refrain from further attacks and indicated that deescalation in the region is now the utmost importance.

46.44.158.42 (talk) 12:27, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Question: Would it be okay to rephrase that to:  Netherlands: The Dutch Minister of Foreign Affairs Caspar Veldkamp condemned the strike. In a telephone call, Veldkamp urged the Iranian minister to refrain from further attacks and indicated that de-escalation in the region is now the utmost importance.

I just corrected a couple typos and rephrased the part about the phone call to flow better. ASUKITE 14:38, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

@Asukite:, yes that is indeed better. Thanks, 46.44.158.42 (talk) 15:41, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done ASUKITE 16:09, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Gedera school

"The missile attack damaged several location including a school in Gedera located next to an airbase".

The airbase is located between Gedera and another town, but not directly 'next to' it. Also, the current wording could imply that the school itself is located next to an airbase, which is false.

Please rephrase it. AnEmuIguess (talk) 13:58, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Removal of sourced material

@XDanielx: Contrary to your edit summary, the content relating to the proximity of the damaged school to the airbase is not in the headline, it is in the sub headline (“ The building is not far from an Israeli air base.”) so there’s no clickbait intentions, and that subheadline claim is also supported by the video in which the reporter says on the outskirts of town (1:15) The Gedera school is exactly at least 3 kilometers away from the Tel Nof Airbase which was the likely target per the Skynews report. Why did you remove sourced content with its reference from both the lede and body? Makeandtoss (talk) 15:57, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Regarding which was the likely target per the Skynews report – to be fair the reporter in that video is a bit more careful than saying it was likely or probable ("it could be that the Iranian missiles were aimed at that airbase, but missed" @ 1:26) which is the sort of cautious speculation I'm seeing in other RS. Anyway, while I don't have an issue with including the proximity, the removed wording said "next to"; shouldn't we just state the actual distance (3 kilometres) matter-of-factly if we're going to include it? GhostOfNoMan 16:23, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

"News headlines—including subheadlines—are not a reliable source."

PrimaPrime (talk) 16:25, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Same claim still supported by the video. Mentioning three kilometers would probably be original research. We can say “school close to an airbase” per Skynews in both lede and body, and say in attribution in the body that base could have been the target. Makeandtoss (talk) 17:19, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

close to would be better than the original next to, but still an exaggeration of what the source says. Even the subheadline (which is not an RS as PrimaPrime said) says not far from, which is weaker than close to. The newscaster's language on the outskirts of town seems even weaker.

I think it would be fine to say something like One reporter suggested that the missile could have been aimed at an airbase in the region, though it's probably not lede-worthy. If we can find a source for the 3km distance, that might be best. — xDanielx /_C\ 19:18, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

@XDanielx: This was not in the lede and no one said it is lede worthy; it certainly isn't. What belongs in the body is the fact that this school was close to an airbase, which was removed. There are no sources for the 3 km distance as I have checked. Best we stick with the phrasing of the RS of Skynews which has said that the airbase was on the outskirts of the town in which the school was hit. So the phrasing in the lede would be a "school in a town near an airbase was hit." or "school, located in a town near an airbase, was hit." Makeandtoss (talk) 21:55, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

All of Gaza is "close to" a military target by the 3 km standard, but I don't think we'll be looking to include that anywhere. PrimaPrime (talk) 18:40, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

The distance is relative and depends on the precision of the weapons.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 00:39, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

In addition to the important distinctions made by VR above, the Washington Post has also highlighted the school's proximity to the airbase: "a school not far from the base in Gedera". Now we have two RS highlighting this relationship. @XDanielx: @PrimaPrime: Makeandtoss (talk) 10:44, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

I was never against mentioning the airbase, as long as we're not exaggerating the statements of the underlying sources. — xDanielx /_C\ 15:51, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

@PrimaPrime you removed sourced content here from Aljazeera and masrawy which is literally quoting from Maariv by claiming that “No such report in Ma'ariv” without providing any source to back your claim or discredit the reliable source quoting it. I don’t think this is how it works on wikipedia, if you can’t cite a source to back your claim can you please undo diff that removed sourced content ? Stephan rostie (talk) 19:13, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

If Maariv has supposedly made the claim in question then surely it can be located and cited from there directly. If not then it seems Al Jazeera was not "literally quoting" after all. PrimaPrime (talk) 20:34, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

The point is that it is your ONUS to prove and discredit a reliable source, not me. It often happens on wikipedia to e.g cite the Jerusalem post for something mentioned by WSJ or quoted from it without searching for the WSJ article which they are quoting from. You didn’t provide any proof or source to discredit the cited reliable source. It is your ONUS. Stephan rostie (talk) 08:24, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

"Hoax" and "dubious"

I have removed those tags. The hoax tag is inappropriate for this article. Separately, the "dubious" tag also looked inappropriate, as the sentence preceding it is very clearing attributing the claim to the Iranian government, and it's not dubious that the Iranian government is making these claims. In addition, the whole point of these tags is for talk page discussion, yet I don't see any about them. For these reasons, I have removed these tags.--JasonMacker (talk) 16:37, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Destroyers involved in the defense of Isreal

USS Cole and USS Buckley were involved in the defense of Israel.

NY Times Article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/01/world/middleeast/us-destroyers-israel-iran-missiles.html#:~:text=Bulkeley%20and%20the%20U.S.S.,interceptors%20against%20the%20Iranian%20missiles. Armadilo13 (talk) 17:36, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Damage

So it turns out from satellite images that the damage to the Israeli air base targeted wasn't very "minor" Mauzer's random BS (talk) 06:08, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

1. "Nederland, Duitsland en VK veroordelen Iraanse aanval". NOS (in Dutch). 1 October 2024.
2. "Nederland, Duitsland en VK veroordelen Iraanse aanval". NOS (in Dutch). 1 October 2024.

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