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Revision as of 17:39, 8 November 2024 view sourceLocke Cole (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, File movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers18,892 edits →What to write in the lead paragraph now that KH was defeated: ReplyTag: Reply← Previous edit Revision as of 17:46, 8 November 2024 view source Slatersteven (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers73,197 edits →What to write in the lead paragraph now that KH was defeatedNext edit →
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:What's to re-write? She lost the 2024 election, that's it. ] (]) 17:19, 8 November 2024 (UTC) :What's to re-write? She lost the 2024 election, that's it. ] (]) 17:19, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
:Donald, is that you? In all seriousness, can we please skip to a ] block? @]'s contributions since their account creation have largely been reverted or been talk page soap boxing. Certainly not enough to warrant letting them continue. Note also the warnings and discussion on their user talk page. —] • ] • ] 17:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC) :Donald, is that you? In all seriousness, can we please skip to a ] block? @]'s contributions since their account creation have largely been reverted or been talk page soap boxing. Certainly not enough to warrant letting them continue. Note also the warnings and discussion on their user talk page. —] • ] • ] 17:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
::] is the place to discus user conduct, not here. ] (]) 17:46, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

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Section sizes
Section size for Kamala Harris (39 sections)
Section name Byte
count		 Section
total
(Top) 7,355 7,355
Early life and career 230 34,271
Early life and education 16,038 16,038
Early career 2,989 2,989
San Francisco District Attorney (2002–2011) 15,014 15,014
Attorney General of California (2011–2017) 15,177 15,177
U.S. Senator (2017–2021) 33 51,019
Election 8,573 8,573
Tenure and political positions 2,215 39,284
2017 8,634 8,634
2018 8,877 8,877
2019 14,373 14,373
2020 3,982 3,982
2021 1,203 1,203
Committee assignments 2,409 2,409
Caucus memberships 720 720
2020 presidential election 33 21,020
Presidential campaign 13,269 13,269
Vice presidential campaign 7,718 7,718
Vice presidency (2021–present) 5,109 33,570
Senate presidency 8,341 8,341
Immigration 13,878 13,878
Foreign policy 6,242 6,242
2024 presidential election 941 12,956
Presidential campaign 12,015 12,015
Political positions 5,505 17,491
Abortion 3,059 3,059
LGBT rights 4,879 4,879
Criminal justice 4,048 4,048
Personal life 9,846 9,846
Public image 10,494 10,494
Publications 810 810
See also 634 634
Notes 26 26
References 1,269 1,269
Further reading 353 353
External links 201 7,853
Official 286 286
Other 7,366 7,366
Total 224,144 224,144
A fact from this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the On this day section on October 20, 2021 and October 20, 2022.

Coconut tree and accent

I fail to see the significance of this content in the article. In fact, I don't even the the point of either paragraph. They seem to be nothing more than standard, insanely shallow political nonsense. HiLo48 (talk) 23:16, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

@HiLo48 I think it relates fairly well under 'public image'. Yeah, some of it seems stupid, but I think that weirdly enough, it concerns people enough to have them feel differently about her. Honestly, I see no harm in having it. The article can have the facts and people can form their own opinion of the political weirdness from it. Coulomb1 (talk) 02:53, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
It's just a single opinion piece by a right-leaning talking head dismissing the idea. If, as you say, it concerns people enough to have them feel differently about her, you should be able to find WP:SUSTAINED non-opinion coverage of it emphasizing its significance to her public image; but right now, the coverage makes it seem more like a single failed barb by Vance that failed to land. For articles on subjects this prominent, we don't cover every single political zinger that fell flat – only ones that got enough traction to have significant secondary coverage. --Aquillion (talk) 02:59, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

A "consensus" based on an all-too-brief discussion

user:Antony-22 has interpreted this discussion to establish a consensus for including racial categories such as Afro-Jamaican or dubious ethnic categories such as Indian-American in the lead paragraph of this article. The discussion, in which four editors participated, lasted but two days (October 1 to October 3). The first three respondents (user:Jack Upland, user:JohnAdams1800 and user:Valereee didn't exactly agree with the user:Antony-22's proposal.

On the heels of an exhaustive RfC—which had begun on July 31 and was closed by user:S Marshall on September 26 and in which there was little support for including racial categories of descent—to claim that such a brief and perfunctory discussion constitutes a consensus for revision is a slap in the face of the RfC participants (who had cited dozens of sources). I have therefore undone user:Antony-22's changes in the lead. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:25, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

We had an RFC, a discussion had between 4 editors can't overturn that. Slatersteven (talk) 15:28, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I won't edit the lead again. But I do want to point out that the RfC was specifically about the "Black" vs. "African-American" terminology, and there wasn't discussion there about whether to use "Afro-Jamaican". As I've mentioned, some readers seem to not be aware that Black Jamaicans have ancestors from Africa and aren't fully indigenous, and my intent was just that a link to Afro-Jamaicans somewhere prominent helps our readers learn that if they're not aware of it. Antony–22 (⁄contribs) 23:50, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

And African-Americans are none of those? Slatersteven (talk) 11:52, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Incumbent, until Jan 20, 2025

Please oh please. When we know who Harris' veep successor-to-be is. Let's not change "Incumbent" to "Outgoing", in Harris' infobox. GoodDay (talk) 20:30, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Good point. Now that Harris has been soundly defeated by Trump in the general presidential election, her successor will be J.D. Vance. TopShelf99 (talk) 14:54, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

When to accept a winner and loser tonight for this page's lead?

For 178 years, the Associated Press (AP) has been the gold standard for calling the American presidential election. See AP, Le Monde, Guardian, and NPR, which partners with AP to name just a few.

  • I Propose that we wait until AP makes the call at its Live website That way there won't be any jumping the gun and edit wars in its wake. Please voice support or opposition below.

Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:50, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

It's over – she lost. TopShelf99 (talk) 15:23, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

What to write in the lead paragraph should KH win

Obviously moot – Muboshgu (talk) 15:07, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I propose that we write:

Kamala Devi Harris (English: /ˈkɑːmələ ˈdeɪvi/ , born October 20, 1964) is an American politician and attorney who is the President-elect of the United States. On January 20, 2025, she will be sworn in as the United States' 47th president, its first first female president, and the highest-ranking female official in its history. Harris was the Democratic presidential nominee in the 2024 United States presidential election, which she has won by defeating former president Donald Trump<cite AP here>

The remainder of her current lead paragraph should be in later paragraphs. Please discuss below. Of course, if she loses, then this page will not have much traffic. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 23:09, 5 November 2024 (UTC) Fowler&fowler«Talk» 23:09, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Should she win we'll probably follow the precedent. The current lede paragraph wouldn't be moved to later, possibly cut down a little, but the information that's currently there would stay. Most of your proposed writing would probably be in the last paragraph, as they are written in chronological order. estar8806 (talk) ★ 23:41, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
Oh, I see. That makes sense. Didn't think of it. Thank you. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 23:44, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
Assuming it goes the other way at this point, I think the first paragraph would be fine as is with the fourth paragraph being updated about the election, similar to John McCain. Alternatively, we could do something similar to Hillary Clinton and say, A member of the Democratic Party, she was the party's nominee in the 2024 presidential election, becoming the most recent woman to win a presidential nomination by a major U.S. political party (following conditional on 2024 results) and the most recent woman to win the popular vote for U.S. president. --Super Goku V (talk) 09:30, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
THis is why we have wp:crystal. Slatersteven (talk) 10:28, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

References

  1. Kamala Harris (May 24, 2016). "People pronounce my name many different ways. Let #KidsForKamala show you how it's done" (Tweet) – via Twitter.

Edit request - revert "Exiting office" in the info box

I request that "Exiting office" and the Jan 20, 2025 date is reverted back to "Assumed office" with the date she was sworn in as VP. "Exiting office" sounds silly, and the info box should have the date she assumed the role, not the date two months from now that she's leaving it. Luminism (talk) 12:02, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

 Resolved --Super Goku V (talk) 10:36, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

What to write in the lead paragraph now that KH was defeated

Suggested change: Change "Harris lost the general election to her Republican Party opponent Donald Trump" to "Harris was soundly defeated in the 2024 presidential election by her Republican Party opponent, Donald Trump. Harris lost the electoral vote 226-312, and garnered over 4.5 million less popular votes than Trump." TopShelf99 (talk) 19:51, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Becasue we try to keep it neutral. Slatersteven (talk) 11:09, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
Exactly - What I am suggesting is both factual and neutral. I don't want this article to be completely laudatory about Harris, and I don't want it to be completely defamatory like the Trump article. TopShelf99 (talk) 14:52, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
So you do not want it to be negative, by saying she "was soundly defeated"?, Sorry that makes no sense, we say totally neutrally she lost. That is all we need to say. Slatersteven (talk) 14:56, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
She WAS soundly defeated. That is more factual and neutral than referring to Trump lying, racist, misogynistic, and one of the worst Presidents in history, and those terms were all allowed in the lede in the Misplaced Pages article on Trump. I can understand your disappointment about the election results and voters' repudiation of the damage Harris and Biden have caused for four years and what she stands for, but you and your fellow editors and administrators shouldn't let your liberal bias continue to influence Misplaced Pages articles. TopShelf99 (talk) 15:14, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
This not about Trumps article, it is about here, and we do not engage in tit for tat WP:FALSEBALANCE. Slatersteven (talk) 15:22, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
Please be mindful not to use talk pages as a WP:SOAPBOX. You can disagree, but your personal political opinions are irrelevant to the discussion. That being said, Trump's lede says "Scholars and historians rank Trump one of the worst presidents in history" as that is reflective of the opinions of scholars and historians, at least for his first term. The same is said for James Buchanan and Andrew Johnson. estar8806 (talk) ★ 15:22, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
What's to re-write? She lost the 2024 election, that's it. GoodDay (talk) 17:19, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
Donald, is that you? In all seriousness, can we please skip to a WP:NOTHERE block? @TopShelf99's contributions since their account creation have largely been reverted or been talk page soap boxing. Certainly not enough to warrant letting them continue. Note also the warnings and discussion on their user talk page. —Locke Cole • t • c 17:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
wp:ani is the place to discus user conduct, not here. Slatersteven (talk) 17:46, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
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