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Old messages are at

• User talk:Giano archive 1 (2004)
• User talk:Giano archive 2 (2005)
• User talk:Giano archive 3 (2005)
• User talk:Giano archive 4 (2006)
• User talk:Giano archive 5 (2006)
• User talk:Giano archive 6 (2007)

Welcome back Giano. Paul August ☎ 19:50, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

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• No I have not - now bugger off and read the text you daft bloody bot! Giano 20:16, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

LOL! Don't forget the wise old saying (from someone whose name I forget), "foolish is he who directs anger at a fool (ie. a bot)..." :-) Of course, you are not angry, just dumbfounded, annoyed and irritated in equal measure (or something). Carcharoth 11:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Eleonora di Toledo

Hey, could you take a look at the recent history of Eleonora di Toledo, please, and the talkpage, and get in touch with the IP editor? (I told them I'd ask you to.) Bishonen | talk 11:22, 10 April 2007 (UTC).

How very kind of you, she was not on my watch list any more, I only do Royalty and titled people if they are very wicked, very promiscuous, very amusing, or built a wonder of the world, Eleanora filled the last two categories, I have just responded on her talk - it would be a shame to make her too dull. Giano 17:15, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Would James I of England count? I put him up for WP:FAR, and he seems an interesting sort of person. Personal relationships of James I of England was an eye-opener. Carcharoth 11:23, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Nope, James I is not in field of interest - nasty old drunk with some other strange habbits which were far from amusing - if people must get drunk then get witty-drunk, morose-drunk and buggering the valets is nasty for everybody, not only the valets. Giano 18:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Architectural elements

Sorry to bring down the tone, but we seem to be missing lots of basic architectural elements. I have made up king post - then found and assimilated king-post - which also deals with queen posts and crown posts. But there is no Dutch gable, no coach house or coachhouse, and no linen fold or linenfold.

O tempura, o teriyaki! -- ALoan (Talk) 17:42, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Are you studying Mandarin or something ALoan, you seem to be speaking very odly - there you a "Dutch gable" no there will be no references - I wrote it off the top of my head after a very long day - so go and add....Giano 18:28, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Leoni & Buckingham Palace

Hi Giano, I'm wondering if you're also "this" Giano? I've come across the archived discussion while I was looking for information about Giacomo Leoni (for the German Misplaced Pages). "Giano" (you?) has written there that the Buckingham East façade was influenced by Leoni's Lyme Park. Do you know if there's literature about it, or how did you fear about it yourself? The internet seems to distribute it largely as more or less direct takes from Misplaced Pages... or at least I don't find anything useful there. So maybe you could help me out? Thanks a lot, Ibn Battuta 18:50, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

• Sadly, yes that is me, new to wikipedia and knowing even less about FAs than I do now, regarding the Buckingham palace and Lyme Park comparison, the Leoni page was written ages ago before we were expected to cite our references in the way we do now - I will have to find the books I used to write that page - which I don't have with me right now - basically Leoni was introducing a type of Italianate architecture a form of Palladianism - which eventually evolved into the 19th century "municipal street architecture" of which Buckingham Palace's early 20th century face-lift is an unremarkable prime example - the obvious comparisons between the palace and Lyme are the central triple arch, double pilasters terminating the centre bay, and most obviously the box like structure over the pediment, which I think at Lyme was a 19th century addition - to replace a cupola - I will find the books next time I am home and ref it. Giano 22:00, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Great, thanks a lot, and especially for the details about the influence! When you're talking about the triple arc, you're probably referring to the central arcade at the street level, right? - BTW, according to Lyme Park - Disley, Cheshire (NT), on UK Heritage, the cupola was simply never built because the owner didn't like it; and Wyatt's addition came around 1817... Thanks again, Ibn Battuta 02:21, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Sunnyside Hospital, Christchurch

I thought you might be interested to know that the former Sunnyside Mental Hospital, designed by Benjamin Mountfort and built in 1892, is now being demolished. (Radio New Zealand) I have mixed feelings; on the one hand we're losing a heritage building, on the other it was probably a horrible place for those unfortunate enough to be committed there.-gadfium 06:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

• It does seem a pity that a country by comparison with Europe and America fairly poor in 19th century architecture can demolish a building like this Image:Sunny Side Asylum.jpg by one of its most eminent architects. One has to though evaluate its possible further use - in London it would be converted into luxury apartments or offices. I agree with you I don't think 19th century mental hospitals were known for their comfort and therapy - more places to tidy these people away off the streets - but that is part of a cultural heritage too - one would knot demolish the Tower of London because some pretty horrible things repeatedly happened in it's basement - or the Alhambra of Caserta because they were built by forced slave labour - all equally horrible if not worse. It seems though most of Mountfort's work is already demolished and what remains in an administrative wing by John Campbell. Here is the official assessment of its architectural worth - if there were ever an appeal a decent planning lawyer could nuke that assessment in five minutes - The Council here saving the admin building "Ensure effective ongoing protection of the Administration Building through the Council purchasing the building," and interestingly "There are a number of potential options for future use of the building, ranging from craft studios to a cafeteria, to accommodation. Certainly, its potential role as an important community facility can be promoted." and yet suddenly here they have given permission for its demolition - if that were my country's heritage I would want to know why - Designed by Mountfort or Campbell, it is immaterial, it is a rare piece of 19th century Gothic and part of NZs very sparse architectural heritage - as I said a decent planning lawyer could save it on those reports alone. Giano 08:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Sp.?

No, you're wwrong... there's no grrr in "Logrenzo"...I looked it up. and while I must agreee that plans and planned is something of a case of superfluous redundancy, I have to tell you that "appear" has only two Ps. Are you trying to ggett at me orr wot? Let me inform you, that if you have ever beeen in a rainstorm when half the Sahahara Dessert was dumped on Rome, thwen you'd know why most of Ancient Rome was invisible. Wot's more to the point...don't you know anything about the Renaisssance in Russsia? It only needs one litttle parragryph? By the way, what have you done to offend Lady Catherine? Not more baroque toilet humour, I hhope? --Amandajm 14:00, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

No! wait a minute.... maybe it only has one P... well anyway, it has one or two but it deffinitely doesn't have three.

I have no idea what it is you are talking about - do you have some diffs? Giano 14:51, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Biography infobox

Could you please explain why you feel there shouldn't be an infobox on Hannah Primrose, Countess of Rosebery? Errabee 13:53, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I was surprised to see that page had been nominated here for whatever an "A class" biography is, end even more surprised to see someone obviously more familiar with the A Class biographies than me felt it needed an info-box - It does not. In my opinion info-boxes on biographies appear like thise horrible cards children collect - are they given free with soap powder or something? Whatever - the subject was not a president of the USA, a reigning sovereign, just a woman who happened to be for a short time to be an "It girl" of late Victorian society - there is no justifiable need for an infobox. This subject has been discussed ad-nauseum on Wikipediam and still it won't go away. Giano 15:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Just dropping by to note my complete agreement with Giano on this issue. Infoboxes are widely overused; while there are a few articles on which they are useful (articles about U.S. presidents, countries, stuff like that), there's certainly no need for them on articles like the one under discussion here or on smallish things like Jean Baptiste Perrin, where the infobox is actually longer than the article. A pox on the silly things! Kelly Martin (talk) 15:52, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Try this version of Perrin without the infobox. Carcharoth 11:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok, first of all: A-class is the next best thing Misplaced Pages has to offer after Featured Articles. The current example for an A-class article of the Biography project (Linus Pauling) does not meet the criteria for A-class (much to my annoyance, as I have a Ph.D. in quantum chemistry, spent time at Caltech in 1989, and attended a lecture by Pauling, already an icon of the scientific world in his lifetime). Anyway, sorry for digressing, but we needed a new example of what an A-class Biography article should like. The situation in the Biography project has always been that anybody could give an article an A-class rating, which has led to some very sorry excuses for articles getting A-class ratings by their creators. So, I've been searching for an A-class rated article that deserved that honor, and I thought Hannah Primrose was an excellent article, which could well serve as example. As for your (and Kelly Martin's) objections to infoboxes, I'm not sure whether to agree or disagree. I'm quite sure however that in any encyclopedia where anybody can edit, attempts to create uniformity across articles of the same type are very important. If the biography infobox is a means to that end remains to be seen. The (lack of) infobox is however not a severe enough point to deny the Hannah Primrose article (exemplary) A-class status. Errabee 21:59, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think Hannah is a very representative example of a GA, Errabee. It should be an FA, if anything. The reason it's not is that Giano is PO'd with the stuff that happens to FAs and FA writers on FAR/FARC. Being abused for defending your work isn't a happy experience, I guess. Bishonen | talk 10:40, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

Hannah is a stunningly good article, I have to say. My poor little Typical Striped Grass Mouse looks quite pathetic beside it! ElinorD (talk) 12:43, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

What a cute little feller! :-) Stripey like a wild boar piglet. I want one! Bishonen | talk 23:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

He is rather cute. But, um, aren't you the owner of a very dangerous reptile? I wouldn't dream of handing one over to you. I'd be afraid you might give it to her! ElinorD (talk) 23:43, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Pet! Not snack! bishzilla _ROARR!! 01:51, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

Give all the boxes to the 'zilla to play with. I'm sick of people who can't write articles sticking horrible ugly standardised boxes on otherwise decent articles. Such people probably think that is it cool to have a bumper sticker on your car, or keep your CD collection in alphabetical order. We are quite unworthy of them.--Doc 23:55, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Minor renaming

FYI, User Giano/Villa Medicea di Cafaggiolo was misnamed, putting it in the main article namespace. I've moved it to User:Giano/Villa Medicea di Cafaggiolo (notice the colon) Raul654 23:15, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

• Thank you Raul! Giano 07:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of which, which is less peculier, Gustav Utens or Giusto Utens? --Wetman 00:27, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Wetman, thanks for the contributions - very welcome, my info was drying up a little! Have a great picture to scan later today to demonstrate the architecture. On the subject of Utens ...I hate to complicate the issue further...but I always knew him as Justus Utens (as he is referred to in "better" Italian books!!!, but all my text books seem to translate him as Gustav! Lets see what google, that well known arbitrator of these matters says: Giusto 50,000; Gustav 797; Justus 812. Which is pretty conclusive - Wetman wins not only a pack of crayons for the "April Art Prize" but also the oportunity to write Giusto Utens - seriously there is stacks of his stuff on commons, I'm amazed he is a red link. Giano 07:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Old Bishops Palace, Oslo

Apparently James I of England got married there. Worth an article, or a stub? Carcharoth 10:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Though I see you are busy again. Looks nice. Carcharoth 11:14, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Sounds more like Bishonenland to me, than my own sunkissed territory - I'm sure you can write it yourself - are you sure he actually attended the wedding there though? Giano 11:27, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Apparently so. You are right. I should try and do something myself. How would I begin assessing whether it is notable enough for an article in the first place? Age? Architectural style? Hang on. I've just found an absolutely fascinating document. Good Lord! Look at this: - a translation of contemporary Danish accounts of the wedding!! Excuse me while I pop back to the James/Anne pages. Carcharoth 12:05, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

if like me you work surrounded by architectural books it is easy, but even they are likely not to have much on that building, so I would just google, but use only the reputable academic referenced sites, not holiday and tourist sites as they tend to lie to make holiday destinations more exiting. Then try and find some old painting or print that is out of copyright or better still pursuade Bishonen or one of the the other Nordics to get on their bike, sled, skis or dog (or whatever is the favoured mode of transport in those parts) and take a picture. Giano 12:15, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Reindeer at a Gallop. Bishonen | talk 20:15, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

OK. Thanks. Carcharoth 12:16, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

• have you got a link to it, I can't even find a photo Giano 12:23, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

• Er. This is the best I can do for now... I'll keep looking. Carcharoth 12:24, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

• Er indeed! Is that it? - it doesn't look to be in a very good state of repair, does it? Giano 12:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

<unindent>LOL! I think I need an archaeological writer, not an architectural one! :-) More seriously, I looked more closely at the contemporary source I quoted above, and the author of that added a footnote. Main text: "Earl George Keith, a Scottish Marischal and ambassador, led her Highness into the old Bishop's Palace". Footnote: "Not of course the present one, which used to be the Dominican Monastery." Anyway, I'm giving up on this, unless an Oslo resident can shed light on it all. Carcharoth 12:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I hate to give up, but it does not look very hopeful, there must be some Norwegian editors here. Giano 12:37, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, looking at Oslo#History, it seems that there isn't much history before it was rebuilt after fires in 1624, which is after the time I'm thinking of. Oh well. Looks like they got married in a cow shed in Norway. (that's a joke!) Carcharoth 12:41, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

You could try User:Egil he seems to have the requisite qualifications (he is Norwegian and edited Oslo cathedral) which is about as good as we are going to get. Giano 12:46, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. He now has two posts waiting for him! Carcharoth 12:56, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Are you talking about the building constructed by bishop Nikolas in the 1200s, now under the Oslo Ladegård? Replaced by a Renaissance building in the late 1500s (a new Renaissance building would be ideal for a Stuart royal wedding) and then replaced again by a Baroque building in around 1720? -- ALoan (Talk) 13:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

That might indeed be the one where James and Anne got married, though it is strange they don't mention it if so. I'm also curious now about the contemporary building called "Old Bishop's Palace" in Oslo. As pointed out above, this might be the closest you will get to an idea of where the old place was. Search for "Bishop". Carcharoth 13:31, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

And there is more. The bishop's name, which I eventually worked out from that document as being a Jens Nilsson, is listed at Oslo Cathedral#Bishops of Oslo as being a Bishop of Oslo from 1580-1600, which fits with the dates of their marriage of 1589. So I'm now wondering what the Hallvards Cathedral mentioned at Oslo Cathedral has to do with this Bishop's Palace? Carcharoth 13:42, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Jens Nilson? - you can't have bishop called Jens Nilson sounds like an olympic skier or porno star Giano 14:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

He has an article on the Norwegian Misplaced Pages. Which leads to their article on the Oslo Cathedral, but still leading to dead ends, really. And tis source says they married in Kronborg Castle. Hmm. I'm going to stop there until more information emerges. Carcharoth 14:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

False alarm. Kronborg Castle was the proxy marriage in August, before the real marriage later that year. Carcharoth 14:31, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

This is all becoming \�\�\�\�\�\�\�\�\�\�\�\�\�\�\�\�this page is a good idea? Giano 14:33, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Probably not. But I think I've found enough to satisfy me what is going on, even if no page results from all this. Have a look at this Norwegian page, which has references to a "Christen Mules gård" where James and Anne were married (confirmed by this, which says: "On 23rd November the royal couple stood in Christen Mules Gaard, in the great hall"). Now look at the picture on that Norweigian site, and look at the page ALoan provided earlier: . Same place. Only remains to find a reliable source linking "Christen Mules Gaard" to "Oslo Ladegård". More reliable than another wikipedia, anyway. And sadly, no extant Renaissance building. Sorry to have taken up so much of your time, and thanks for helping out (both you and ALoan). Carcharoth 14:46, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

That's a good start... :-( Carcharoth 14:48, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

And this truly is the end of it, I promise! Carcharoth 14:58, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Norwegian sources

Studying Norwegian internet resources I found that up to the middle of the 16th century (i.e. when James I was born) the bishop of Oslo resided at the location where Oslo Ladegård was since located. See also no:Oslo Ladegård. The current Oslo Ladegård is from the 1720s, but there is a room in the basement, called bishop Nikolas' winter hall, which is from the original bishops palace. The original bishops palace was built in the 1200s.

During the reformation (1537?), the power of the bishop diminished. At some time after this (not really sure when) the king in Denmark threw the bishop out of the old palace, whereafter he moved to the Olavs cloister, which after 1537 was no longer used (it was founded in 1239 by Dominicans). The "new" bishops palace (or building) was in fact built in the 1880s at the location of the cloister ruins.

James and Anne were married at the old Bishops Palace in 1589. -- Egil 20:04, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

• Thanks Egil, that is terrific. Carcharoth will be able to start on his new page, his first easy venture into architecture, in the morning - I immagine he has his nose in his Norwegian phrase book as we speak. Thanks a lot your time will not have been wasted. Giano 21:24, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

"My hovercraft is full of bishops"! Bishonen | talk 01:17, 25 April 2007 (UTC).