Talk:Kamala Harris: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 15:30, 24 November 2024 view sourceSlatersteven (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers73,197 edits →Re. Harris speaking Tamil ← Previous edit		Revision as of 15:31, 24 November 2024 view source A smart kitten (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers7,920 edits →Re. Harris speaking Tamil: reply to SlaterstevenTag: Reply Next edit →
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	Without sourcing to directly support the statement of Harris speaking Tamil, therefore, I'd support it being removed from the article as ] {{ndash}} as far as I can see, the current source would only support the fact that someone ''else'' said they spoke briefly in Tamil with Harris. I apologise if I should have explained more in my edit summary. All the best, <span class="skin-invert" style="color:#000"><span style="">&zwj;—&zwj;</span>]<sub>]]</sub></span> 15:04, 24 November 2024 (UTC)		Without sourcing to directly support the statement of Harris speaking Tamil, therefore, I'd support it being removed from the article as ] {{ndash}} as far as I can see, the current source would only support the fact that someone ''else'' said they spoke briefly in Tamil with Harris. I apologise if I should have explained more in my edit summary. All the best, <span class="skin-invert" style="color:#000"><span style="">&zwj;—&zwj;</span>]<sub>]]</sub></span> 15:04, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
	:Mmm, well if a witness says they both spoke in Tamil I am unsure we really need anything better (if you speak in Tamil, by inference you can speak it, so it seems a reasonable paraphrasing). But by all means change it to "spoke a few words of Tamil with Ganesan", if this really is a problem ] (]) 15:12, 24 November 2024 (UTC)		:Mmm, well if a witness says they both spoke in Tamil I am unsure we really need anything better (if you speak in Tamil, by inference you can speak it, so it seems a reasonable paraphrasing). But by all means change it to "spoke a few words of Tamil with Ganesan", if this really is a problem ] (]) 15:12, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
			::I'll leave this article for a bit before doing anything else in order to get some more input from people watching this page, but my understanding is that a source quoting a witness isn't enough for us to repeat what the witness said as a fact in wikivoice (in addition to potential issues with {{tqq\|speaks Tamil}} being ambiguous about the level of language knowledge). I'm also not sure that it'd be particularly worth including something along the lines of {{tq\|In 2020, Tel Ganesan stated that he "very briefly spoke in Tamil" with Harris}} in the article (as, at that point, it seems like it may not be particularly worth mentioning); but I'll step out of the discussion for now to allow other editors to opine <code>:)</code> All the best, <span class="skin-invert" style="color:#000"><span style="">&zwj;—&zwj;</span>]<sub>]]</sub></span> 15:31, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

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Aída Chávez (2 July 2020). "There's a War Going on Over Kamala Harris's Misplaced Pages Page, With Unflattering Elements Vanishing". The Intercept. Retrieved 2 July 2020.
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Tyler Olson (6 July 2020). "Kamala Harris' Misplaced Pages page scrubbed of information amid veepstakes, igniting online fight". Fox News. Retrieved 6 July 2020.
Emily Jacobs (7 July 2020). "Kamala Harris' Misplaced Pages page has been edited over 500 times amid VP rumors". New York Post. Retrieved 7 July 2020.
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Joshua Benton (13 August 2020). "The Misplaced Pages War Over Kamala Harris's Race". The Atlantic. Retrieved 13 August 2020.
Bradley Cortright (24 January 2024). "Harris Complains About How Tall Misplaced Pages Says She Is". Independent Journal Review. Retrieved 26 January 2024.
Johnathan Jones (24 January 2024). "Kamala Harris Bothered by How Tall Misplaced Pages Says She Is: 'That Is Absolutely Incorrect'". The Western Journal. Retrieved 26 January 2024.
Reagan Reese (24 January 2024). "Kamala Harris Is Very Concerned About Misplaced Pages Trolls Making Her Look Short". The Daily Caller. Retrieved 26 January 2024.

Section sizes

Section size for Kamala Harris (39 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	7,355	7,355
Early life and career	230	34,271
Early life and education	16,038	16,038
Early career	2,989	2,989
San Francisco District Attorney (2002–2011)	15,014	15,014
Attorney General of California (2011–2017)	15,177	15,177
U.S. Senator (2017–2021)	33	51,019
Election	8,573	8,573
Tenure and political positions	2,215	39,284
2017	8,634	8,634
2018	8,877	8,877
2019	14,373	14,373
2020	3,982	3,982
2021	1,203	1,203
Committee assignments	2,409	2,409
Caucus memberships	720	720
2020 presidential election	33	21,020
Presidential campaign	13,269	13,269
Vice presidential campaign	7,718	7,718
Vice presidency (2021–present)	5,109	33,570
Senate presidency	8,341	8,341
Immigration	13,878	13,878
Foreign policy	6,242	6,242
2024 presidential election	941	12,956
Presidential campaign	12,015	12,015
Political positions	5,505	17,491
Abortion	3,059	3,059
LGBT rights	4,879	4,879
Criminal justice	4,048	4,048
Personal life	9,846	9,846
Public image	10,494	10,494
Publications	810	810
See also	634	634
Notes	26	26
References	1,269	1,269
Further reading	353	353
External links	201	7,853
Official	286	286
Other	7,366	7,366
Total	224,144	224,144

A fact from this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the On this day section on October 20, 2021 and October 20, 2022.

What to write in the lead paragraph now that KH was defeated

Suggested change: Change "Harris lost the general election to her Republican Party opponent Donald Trump" to "Harris was soundly defeated in the 2024 presidential election by her Republican Party opponent, Donald Trump. Harris lost the electoral vote 226-312, and garnered over 4.5 million less popular votes than Trump." TopShelf99 (talk) 19:51, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Becasue we try to keep it neutral. Slatersteven (talk) 11:09, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Exactly - What I am suggesting is both factual and neutral. I don't want this article to be completely laudatory about Harris, and I don't want it to be completely defamatory like the Trump article. TopShelf99 (talk) 14:52, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

So you do not want it to be negative, by saying she "was soundly defeated"?, Sorry that makes no sense, we say totally neutrally she lost. That is all we need to say. Slatersteven (talk) 14:56, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

She WAS soundly defeated. That is more factual and neutral than referring to Trump lying, racist, misogynistic, and one of the worst Presidents in history, and those terms were all allowed in the lede in the Misplaced Pages article on Trump. I can understand your disappointment about the election results and voters' repudiation of the damage Harris and Biden have caused for four years and what she stands for, but you and your fellow editors and administrators shouldn't let your liberal bias continue to influence Misplaced Pages articles. TopShelf99 (talk) 15:14, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

This not about Trumps article, it is about here, and we do not engage in tit for tat WP:FALSEBALANCE. Slatersteven (talk) 15:22, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Please be mindful not to use talk pages as a WP:SOAPBOX. You can disagree, but your personal political opinions are irrelevant to the discussion. That being said, Trump's lede says "Scholars and historians rank Trump one of the worst presidents in history" as that is reflective of the opinions of scholars and historians, at least for his first term. The same is said for James Buchanan and Andrew Johnson. estar8806 (talk) ★ 15:22, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

What's to re-write? She lost the 2024 election, that's it. GoodDay (talk) 17:19, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Donald, is that you? In all seriousness, can we please skip to a WP:NOTHERE block? @TopShelf99's contributions since their account creation have largely been reverted or been talk page soap boxing. Certainly not enough to warrant letting them continue. Note also the warnings and discussion on their user talk page. —Locke Cole • t • c 17:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

wp:ani is the place to discus user conduct, not here. Slatersteven (talk) 17:46, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

soundly defeated - i think these adverbs are not entertained in Misplaced Pages. Hajpo (talk) 13:46, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Bsasap (talk) 17:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Kamala Harris/Response to claims of bias

Hello, folks,

I was looking into an editor's contributions and came across this subpage they created. Is this typical for politician's articles, do other high profile politicians have these pages? Or should there be a deletion discussion at MFD about it? Liz 02:52, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

It is a copy of Talk:Donald Trump/Response to claims of bias with two changes: Donald Trump article → Kamala Harris article & sources are widely critical of Trump → sources are widely positive of Harris. The Trump sub-page has been linked to on 44 talk pages prior to this edit, though most are the archives of Talk:Donald Trump with some on other pages like Talk:2024 United States presidential election/FAQ. --Super Goku V (talk) 07:20, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Bsasap (talk) 18:35, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Wage theft

A Politico article on her campaign just reported, "... the campaign’s decision to stop paying many senior staff as of Saturday, even those initially told they would be paid through the end of the year."

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/11/16/kamala-harris-donors-00190020

This was worth mentioning when Trump stiffed people that he owed money to, so it's worth mentioning when Harris did the exact same thing.

The Last Hungry Cat (talk) 02:50, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

"when Trump stiffed people" Which Trump? The Family of Donald Trump has included several shady businesspeople. Dimadick (talk) 11:37, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Was it, or was it in fact different? Slatersteven (talk) 11:39, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Alleged fraud and alleged insolvency are not the same thing. And notice as well that the campaign is raising money to pay off debts, not filing for bankruptcy protection in order to avoid them. The allegations against Trump if true were criminal. TFD (talk) 14:36, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

KInd of irrelevant as many of his companies did declare bankruptcy, which means they did not pay all their debts. Alo Trumo has been prosecuted for fraud, it's not just an allegation. Slatersteven (talk) 14:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Trump is not the topic of this talk page. Shouldn't "the campaign's decision" belong on the campaign talk page, not this one? – Muboshgu (talk) 15:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Just making the point "its not analogous". Slatersteven (talk) 15:13, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

I didn't mean to point the reply at you directly, Slatersteven. That point is for everyone. Surely there are differences between this and what Trump has been accused of doing. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:24, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

While I do not subscribe to the "fairness doctrine"-esque notion that because something is mentioned in regard to the conduct of one politician it ought be mentioned in another politician's article, wage theft has a specific legal connotation, and until such is adjudicated, it is best to surmise the state of the campaign as having "encountered financial difficulties" rather than "engaged in wage theft". Moreover, the phrasing of theft invokes a particular scienter and moral status for which does not appear justified in application to this concern as of now.Irruptive Creditor (talk) 08:11, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Re. Harris speaking Tamil

Slatersteven, regarding this sentence:

In addition to English, Harris speaks Tamil.

References

"Kamala Harris and I very briefly spoke in Tamil: Tel K Ganesan". The Times of India. 2020-08-18. ISSN 0971-8257. Archived from the original on February 4, 2023. Retrieved 2024-11-06.

There is a source cited; however, by my reading, it does not verify the statement that Harris speaks Tamil - only that Tel K Ganesan said that very briefly spoke in Tamil together (the full sentence from the source being “We very briefly spoke in Tamil – vanakkam and nandri. We did talk about sambar,” grins.).

Without sourcing to directly support the statement of Harris speaking Tamil, therefore, I'd support it being removed from the article as unverifiable – as far as I can see, the current source would only support the fact that someone else said they spoke briefly in Tamil with Harris. I apologise if I should have explained more in my edit summary. All the best, ‍—‍a smart kitten 15:04, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Mmm, well if a witness says they both spoke in Tamil I am unsure we really need anything better (if you speak in Tamil, by inference you can speak it, so it seems a reasonable paraphrasing). But by all means change it to "spoke a few words of Tamil with Ganesan", if this really is a problem Slatersteven (talk) 15:12, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

I'll leave this article for a bit before doing anything else in order to get some more input from people watching this page, but my understanding is that a source quoting a witness isn't enough for us to repeat what the witness said as a fact in wikivoice (in addition to potential issues with speaks Tamil being ambiguous about the level of language knowledge). I'm also not sure that it'd be particularly worth including something along the lines of In 2020, Tel Ganesan stated that he "very briefly spoke in Tamil" with Harris in the article (as, at that point, it seems like it may not be particularly worth mentioning); but I'll step out of the discussion for now to allow other editors to opine :) All the best, ‍—‍a smart kitten 15:31, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

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