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| :Flamekeeper, I have a great deal of concern about the material you've added. Firstly, some of it is quite sloppy. Names are misspelled (] instead of ], ] instead of ]), and so forth. Secondly, the material you provide is idiosyncratic and out of context. You talk about 1928, but don't even mention the formation of the Grand Coalition. You don't say anything about the Centre Party as one of the bulwarks of the republic in its early years, except to add a mention of supposed "odium" from accepting reparations (and inaccurately saying that this led to Erzberger's assassination, when in fact Erzberger had been murdered in 1920), when this was not the decision of the Centre Party, but of a coalition also including the SPD. The material on their supposed "support" of the Nazis in 1932 is also problematic. It is true that both the Nazis and the Centre opposed the government of Papen (whom you incorrectly imply to be a Centre Party chancellor, as opposed to a turncoat who was disavowed by the party), but so did the SPD and the KPD. It is also true that the Centre Party did enter into negotiations for a coalition with the Nazis, but it was only in this context that they made any statements in favor of a Hitler chancellorship. The overall tenor of your edits seems to be simply to imply that the Centre Party was responsible for the accession of Hitler. While the Centre certainly bears its share of blame, and Brüning, in particular, bears a great deal of responsibility for both the collapse of Weimar and the rise of the Nazis, to take this all out of context with misleading cherry-picked events is problematic. That you want your version of the page to be protected is even worse. ] ] 16:03, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC) | :Flamekeeper, I have a great deal of concern about the material you've added. Firstly, some of it is quite sloppy. Names are misspelled (] instead of ], ] instead of ]), and so forth. Secondly, the material you provide is idiosyncratic and out of context. You talk about 1928, but don't even mention the formation of the Grand Coalition. You don't say anything about the Centre Party as one of the bulwarks of the republic in its early years, except to add a mention of supposed "odium" from accepting reparations (and inaccurately saying that this led to Erzberger's assassination, when in fact Erzberger had been murdered in 1920), when this was not the decision of the Centre Party, but of a coalition also including the SPD. The material on their supposed "support" of the Nazis in 1932 is also problematic. It is true that both the Nazis and the Centre opposed the government of Papen (whom you incorrectly imply to be a Centre Party chancellor, as opposed to a turncoat who was disavowed by the party), but so did the SPD and the KPD. It is also true that the Centre Party did enter into negotiations for a coalition with the Nazis, but it was only in this context that they made any statements in favor of a Hitler chancellorship. The overall tenor of your edits seems to be simply to imply that the Centre Party was responsible for the accession of Hitler. While the Centre certainly bears its share of blame, and Brüning, in particular, bears a great deal of responsibility for both the collapse of Weimar and the rise of the Nazis, to take this all out of context with misleading cherry-picked events is problematic. That you want your version of the page to be protected is even worse. ] ] 16:03, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC) | ||
| I cannot dispute the limits to my re-write but what you have done is more than correct the spelling . You have wiped the slate entirely and proved the necessity for protection .Are you really going to dispute the writers who I so assiduously referenced - and deny the world the ability to understand , why cannot you add rather than diminuish the sum of knowledge |
I cannot dispute the limits to my re-write but what you have done is more than correct the spelling . You have wiped the slate entirely and proved the necessity for protection .Are you really going to dispute the writers who I so assiduously referenced - and deny the world the ability to understand , why cannot you add rather than diminuish the sum of knowledge ? Your action is harsh and un-reasonable . Dispute a fact or a date -by all means correct a spelling , expand but don't censor . You seem to be trying to protect the appeasers . In fact you seem to ''bury'' what happened , to completely whitewash the actual relationships and events . By all means qualify about Papen and reasonably correct . What you do by reverting is to deny the world the chance to understand -is that your aim ? Why? I seem to remember having attempt before to sever the links out of this page and in particular an attempt to prevent my reference to the centre party ''dissolving itself'' .I do not consider your reasoning here sufficient to justify your censorship actions . Let you revert again if you cannot expand within the history quoted - otherwise I am asking again for protection .] 07:20, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC) | ||
Revision as of 07:20, 21 April 2005
It is nonsensical to use American english in the name and contents of an article on a European topic. Germany no more had a Center Party than Australia has a Labour Party. Similarly it would wrong to write about American theatre. The German party is generally translated by Germans into British English, not American English. FearÉIREANN 23:09, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- Hmm? Germany had neither a Center Party nor a Centre Party, but a Zentrum. Although I will admit that I've much more frequently seen "Centre Party" than "Center Party", and I'm not sure why I titled the article as I did. john 23:48, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- This is incorrect:The Zentrumspartei dissolved itself . This is repeated under Adolf Hitler and Pope Pius XII , and I believe its' inclusion as error reveals concerted attempts over the intervening years to conceal Vatican Appeasement . See Hitler and Stalin -Parallel Lives by Alan Bullock ( Lord Bullock),p.338, published by HarperCollins,1991, ISBN 0-00-686198-9.Flamekeeper 08:24, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
My understanding was that Hitler dissolved it, but I'm not sure. At any rate, it is essentially immaterial - even if it dissolved itself, it's not as though Hitler would have let it alone if it had not done so. But we should definitely figure out what exactly happened. I would suggest, though, that Bullock is almost certainly not the best source on this topic. john k 08:40, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- Thankyou for your quick response . Who is better then ?Flamekeeper 12:46, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)09:00, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I'm trying to think. The best book on the Weimar Republic is Hans Mommsen's The Rise and Fall of Weimar Democracy, but I think that ends before you get to this period. The best book I can think of off the top of my head is the first volume of Kershaw's biography of Hitler, although, again, this doesn't seem especially terrific. There's also Richard Evans's new book on the coming to power of the Nazis, The Coming of the Third Reich, but I'm not sure, again, how far that book goes. john k 19:28, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- Undoubtedly you mean that Hitler eliminated the Catholic Centre Party in Czechoslovakia . 159.134.212.148 21:41, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The german Misplaced Pages says: "Die Zentrumspartei löste sich am 5. Juli 1933 als letzte der so genannten bürgerlichen Parteien auf." Meaning in English: "The Centre Party dissolved itself as the last conservative party at 7.5.1933." This is confirmed by the website of today's Centre Party ( http://www.zentrumspartei.de/html/geschichte.html ). (Jan) --80.134.146.150 22:17, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Protection
Following the edit and inclusion of the Template may I ask that the editing that removed quoted history backed with reference , be re-included , so that a revert will not be required . This was flagged as a minor edit but is not -would you please re-include the text removed .This page which is expamding rapidly is of importance in revealing the varied connections and I am at pains to show real references to prevent any dispute .I fully expect an assault on the revealing of this history and that this page will need protection at that point .07:46, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Flamekeeper, I have a great deal of concern about the material you've added. Firstly, some of it is quite sloppy. Names are misspelled (Alfred Huguenburg instead of Alfred Hugenberg, Heinrich von Bruning instead of Heinrich Brüning), and so forth. Secondly, the material you provide is idiosyncratic and out of context. You talk about 1928, but don't even mention the formation of the Grand Coalition. You don't say anything about the Centre Party as one of the bulwarks of the republic in its early years, except to add a mention of supposed "odium" from accepting reparations (and inaccurately saying that this led to Erzberger's assassination, when in fact Erzberger had been murdered in 1920), when this was not the decision of the Centre Party, but of a coalition also including the SPD. The material on their supposed "support" of the Nazis in 1932 is also problematic. It is true that both the Nazis and the Centre opposed the government of Papen (whom you incorrectly imply to be a Centre Party chancellor, as opposed to a turncoat who was disavowed by the party), but so did the SPD and the KPD. It is also true that the Centre Party did enter into negotiations for a coalition with the Nazis, but it was only in this context that they made any statements in favor of a Hitler chancellorship. The overall tenor of your edits seems to be simply to imply that the Centre Party was responsible for the accession of Hitler. While the Centre certainly bears its share of blame, and Brüning, in particular, bears a great deal of responsibility for both the collapse of Weimar and the rise of the Nazis, to take this all out of context with misleading cherry-picked events is problematic. That you want your version of the page to be protected is even worse. john k 16:03, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I cannot dispute the limits to my re-write but what you have done is more than correct the spelling . You have wiped the slate entirely and proved the necessity for protection .Are you really going to dispute the writers who I so assiduously referenced - and deny the world the ability to understand , why cannot you add rather than diminuish the sum of knowledge ? Your action is harsh and un-reasonable . Dispute a fact or a date -by all means correct a spelling , expand but don't censor . You seem to be trying to protect the appeasers . In fact you seem to bury what happened , to completely whitewash the actual relationships and events . By all means qualify about Papen and reasonably correct . What you do by reverting is to deny the world the chance to understand -is that your aim ? Why? I seem to remember having attempt before to sever the links out of this page and in particular an attempt to prevent my reference to the centre party dissolving itself .I do not consider your reasoning here sufficient to justify your censorship actions . Let you revert again if you cannot expand within the history quoted - otherwise I am asking again for protection .Flamekeeper 07:20, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)