| Revision as of 09:05, 12 December 2024 editBagumba (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators174,109 edits →Boxscore link changes: ReplyTag: Reply← Previous edit | Revision as of 11:05, 12 December 2024 edit undoPatrickpedia (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users846 edits →Boxscore link changesNext edit → | ||
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| :] is the inherent problem lurking with using ]s. —] (]) 08:55, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | :] is the inherent problem lurking with using ]s. —] (]) 08:55, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | ||
| :NBA.com ] too w/o redirecting. Basketball Reference seems more stable. But again, there's always a risk with bare urls. Could go with citations, where some bot would archive the links. —] (]) 09:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | :NBA.com ] too w/o redirecting. Basketball Reference seems more stable. But again, there's always a risk with bare urls. Could go with citations, where some bot would archive the links. —] (]) 09:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | ||
| ::Right! So maybe the best way is to use a bot for archive the old ones, but any clue on how to set the new ones? The pattern should be in somehow... --] (]) 11:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 11:05, 12 December 2024
| This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject National Basketball Association and anything related to its purposes and tasks. |
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List of teams and map added to basketball season pages
An editor has started adding sections for teams and map of teams in NBA and other basketball season pages (for example, 1985–86 NBA season#Teams and 1985–86 NBA season#Map of teams). There is no need to repeat the same information when there are standings tables and the number of teams is usually consistent. That is just a useless decoration. – sbaio 14:21, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
- The map is useful.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:21, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
- Other basketball leagues do this, but those have promotion and relegation, so there are always changes from the previous season. One country that has a similar closed system is Australia, and in articles there is a separate teams section, e.g. 2024 NRL season#Teams. Having a closed system is not a reason on why US sports season articles not do this, as sports season articles do it.
- One sorta similar thing are candidates sections in elections articles, you'd see the same list anyway at another part of the article albeit in a usually different order. I'd rather keep this article and just have the division, coaches and arenas column, and remove the capacity column, and keep colors to a minimum.
- The map is pretty useful, and shows a snapshot in that moment in time how the divisions actually looked like, something a table can't do.
- Again, these are US articles, and I don't expect them to follow how the rest of the world does. Howard the Duck (talk) 16:46, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
@Frontsfan2005: should be seeking a consensus at respective sports WikiProjects, before making such additions to season pages. GoodDay (talk) 17:40, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Sbaio: see Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Baseball/Archive 50#Recent maps added to MLB season articles for the decision to possibly remove maps from MLB season articles. however ultimately kept up on season pages for MLB, NFL and MLS etc. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 18:01, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
New NBA categories
While I have questions if these categories should even exist, the newly-created categories Category:NBA championship-winning players and Category:NBA championship-winning players from Canada need criteria for inclusion added. For example, should it only be for players on the playoff roster? Probably. Thoughts? Rikster2 (talk) 20:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- At minimum they would have to be contracted to the team, i.e. not players who were waived or traded away during the season. For instance, Scot Pollard and Caron Butler were not on their teams playoffs roster but are considered NBA champions. Alvaldi (talk) 20:49, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- The infobox uses WP:NBARING, which says the player must have been on the playoff roster.—Bagumba (talk) 06:19, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
- Why does the special category for Canadian players exist?-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 06:22, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Rikster2, @Alvaldi: On a related topic, there was no comment earlier at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Basketball_Association/Archive_47#NBA_champion_in_infobox:_Two-way_players_and_Avery_Bradley about Avery Bradley in 2020, when he was on the Lakers roster but opted out of the bubble, and two-way players, who are not eligible for the playoffs. —Bagumba (talk) 06:23, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'd say keep it simple by mirroring the WP:NBARING infobox consensus since that's a clear black-and-white inclusion criteria that also maintains consistency across the project. Anything else would be too subjective and/or create discrepancies, thus opening the door to further editorial disputes. Left guide (talk) 08:24, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
- Should be sent to afd Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 January 18#Category:Super Bowl champions, Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 May 11#Category:World Series champions.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 12:51, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- On the contrary, Category:Stanley Cup champions has existed since 2006. Left guide (talk) 13:35, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
Sporting News awards sources
Does anyone have access to old Sporting News issues or compilations? At Jamaal Wilkes, there's been the unsourced claim (almost from Day 1):
The Sporting News named Wilkes to its NBA All-Pro Second Team three years.
I have only found a source for 1981's All-Pro teams. Somewhat suprisingly, I find that longtime unsourced content that initially seems made up often pans out. Interesting that Sporting News used to have those annual NBA guides, but never listed their own awards in them.—Bagumba (talk) 05:51, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
Player nationalities in NBA draft articles
I'm looking to form a consensus on which nationality to list in NBA draft articles. Currently they list the final or current nationality of the player and not their accurate nationality from when then they were accurately drafted. For example, the 1996 NBA draft lists Jeff Nordgaard as Polish and Joe Vogel as Lebanese even though neither would actually become citizens and represent these nations until years later. Personally, I believe that the player should be listed at their nationality at the time of draft and particularly for American players as they were not considered international applicants at the time and could be confused as having been an international applicant. We can add footnotes explaining that the player later represented X country internationally. Best, GPL93 (talk) 16:50, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- There was a somewhat recent discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 47 § Player lists and flags Media coverage of "international" players seemed to gain traction after the Dream Team and NBA's push to position itself as a global league. Most sources talk about where a player was born outside of the U.S. (exception: you were American born on an overseas military base, which doesn't happen much anymore). Later nationalities through naturalization aren't really tracked by sources; it seems to be WP:UNDUE trivia that some editors throw in.—Bagumba (talk) 17:05, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- It seems to be more of an issue with older Drafts (or at least ones that happened before Misplaced Pages was created) where editors were probably going off FIBA listings at the time. I have switched 2 players back to the US from their listed nation (Darnell Mee became an Australian citizen 13 years after the 1993 NBA draft & Ron Ellis became a Belgian citizen at best 8 years after the 1992 NBA draft). It just seems a bit inaccurate to list the player as a later nationality, rather than the current one. Best, GPL93 (talk) 17:20, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, unless sources start talking about drafts w.r.t to naturalized citizens it later produced, later nationalities are irrelvant. —Bagumba (talk) 17:31, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Really the only high-level players I can think of the top of my head are Shawn Bradley who I don't think started playing for Germany until the 2000's and Matisse Thybulle, who was originally listed on Misplaced Pages at the 2019 NBA draft as an American but was a confirmed a dual US/Australian citizen (RS ref HERE) then re-listed as just Australian a year later (and after a full season in the NBA) when he finally declared for FIBA in order to be part of the Olympic qualifying team. Most are guys where there is a clear line from playing in the US to the overseas country where they made their career. Best, GPL93 (talk) 17:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with the system of listing nationalities at the time of drafting and including a note about later representation. For players with dual nationality when selected, whichever country they represent at a senior level should be used. CalDoesIt (talk) 17:54, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- There's Jordan Clarkson (born in U.S., later played for Phillipines). Going back, sources talk about drafted players born outside of the U.S. So we try to capture that in the tables. But an American playing for a different national team is not something that's covered w.r.t a specific draft, so that tidbit seems trivial. These additions always remind me of a race draft. —Bagumba (talk) 16:50, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- American-born, Chinese-descent Kyle Anderson of that same draft class is a similar example. With Clarkson, it is unclear whether he held a Filipino passport at the time of the draft (sources primarily stating that he received it "after the age of 16") so I would suggest listing him as American but with a note explaining his later Filipino involvement. His own article says that he is on the team as a naturalized player. Presently in the 2014 NBA draft article, both nationalities are listed for him: one country he never played for and one country where he likely did not have citizenship at the time. CalDoesIt (talk) 15:38, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Really the only high-level players I can think of the top of my head are Shawn Bradley who I don't think started playing for Germany until the 2000's and Matisse Thybulle, who was originally listed on Misplaced Pages at the 2019 NBA draft as an American but was a confirmed a dual US/Australian citizen (RS ref HERE) then re-listed as just Australian a year later (and after a full season in the NBA) when he finally declared for FIBA in order to be part of the Olympic qualifying team. Most are guys where there is a clear line from playing in the US to the overseas country where they made their career. Best, GPL93 (talk) 17:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, unless sources start talking about drafts w.r.t to naturalized citizens it later produced, later nationalities are irrelvant. —Bagumba (talk) 17:31, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- It seems to be more of an issue with older Drafts (or at least ones that happened before Misplaced Pages was created) where editors were probably going off FIBA listings at the time. I have switched 2 players back to the US from their listed nation (Darnell Mee became an Australian citizen 13 years after the 1993 NBA draft & Ron Ellis became a Belgian citizen at best 8 years after the 1992 NBA draft). It just seems a bit inaccurate to list the player as a later nationality, rather than the current one. Best, GPL93 (talk) 17:20, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
Agree that draft articles should show citizenship as of the time of the draft. I would also suggest this should extend to other info like names and positions so this stuff doesn’t constantly morph. Draft night is a point in time. Rikster2 (talk) 15:02, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- Speaking of names, I have been dealing with situations like Akkem→Hakeem Olajuwon and Lew Alcindor→Kareem Abdul-Jabbar since 2016. Good thing that certain editors look at some of the pages from time to time so I do not have to come back there often. – sbaio 15:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
Brooklyn Nets location... again
Two discussions were started about location of the Brooklyn Nets – Talk:National Basketball Association#Correct location for Brooklyn Nets and New York Knicks and Talk:Brooklyn Nets#Location. We have been through this many times in the past, but certain editors (old or new) like to come and question longstanding consensus. Your opinions are welcome in any of the new discussions. – sbaio 15:23, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Sbaio, new editors don't know about previous discussions and consensus, which is why the same question arose again. For example, @Oknazevad, pointed out that there was a previous discussion at Talk:Brooklyn_Nets/Archive_1#Home_city_location_for_the_Brooklyn_Nets. How would I or any other editor have known about the existence of this archived discussion? Assadzadeh (talk) 19:25, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
- Without opining on the merits, from a procedural standpoint, fragmented discussions are unhelpful in forming consensus. Since this issue appears to affect multiple related articles (at least NBA and Brooklyn Nets), it's best to have a single discussion in a centralized location such as here, and ping everyone involved, which I will do momentarily. Left guide (talk) 21:10, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
- Pinging everyone involved in the article talk page discussions who hasn't yet participated here @Alielmi1207, Banan14kab, Bagumba, and Oknazevad:. Left guide (talk) 21:22, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
- We should stick to the already open discussion at Talk:National Basketball Association instead of opening a third one. oknazevad (talk) 01:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Left guide: Thoughts? It did seem like the bulk of the discussion was there. —Bagumba (talk) 01:11, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- That’s fine. I did not remember even posting about it before in all honesty. We all edit a ton so I don’t know off the top do my head, but will avoid it in the future. Banan14kab (talk) 15:07, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- We should stick to the already open discussion at Talk:National Basketball Association instead of opening a third one. oknazevad (talk) 01:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
Merge discussion for Gui Santos, input needed
There are two articles for the same player (Gui Santos and Gui Carvalho) that need to be merged. Could folks chime in at Talk:Gui Carvalho#Merge proposal to help move it along? It’s been sitting out there for a month. Thanks! Rikster2 (talk) 15:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
List of career wins leaders
I wanted to get the thoughts of other editors here. Should there be an Article on a list of all-time leaders in career wins in both the regular season and playoffs or is that too cherry-picked? Stats for reference: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-career-wins-by-an-nba-player-in-regular-season-and-playoff Nintendoswitchfan (talk) 04:18, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- It would need to meet WP:LISTN. Statmuse is not reliable per WP:NBASOURCES, but databases are anyways are not used to establish notability. —Bagumba (talk) 04:36, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- This became relevant as this is apparently one of those records thay Lebron will inevitably break soon. Howard the Duck (talk) 11:28, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Nomination of List of NBA rookie single-season rebounding leaders for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of NBA rookie single-season rebounding leaders is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of NBA rookie single-season rebounding leaders until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.Left guide (talk) 05:18, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
Questionable articles
Hi all. Sushidude21! has recently created List of NBA career personal foul leaders and NBA Player of the Month and Week. Both currently contain minimal trivial sources. In my opinion, Sushidude21! has built a reputation for creating half-baked articles (warned here) across multiple different topic areas. I am not as active in this project anymore, so keen to hear what others think about the above two articles. DaHuzyBru (talk) 08:40, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
- They've since moved the personal foul one to Draft namespace. For POTW and POTM, there was already some mention at List of NBA awards; perhaps merge it if it's going to be a WP:STUB. —Bagumba (talk) 11:34, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
- @DaHuzyBru and Bagumba: Coincidentally, several months ago back in June, I created List of NBA career personal fouls leaders as a standalone article. Subsequent consensus deemed Fadeaway World unreliable, so I went ahead and merged it to Personal foul (basketball)#List of NBA career personal fouls leaders in September to spare it from getting axed in an AfD. I did extensive research on this topic at that time, so I highly doubt it passes WP:NLIST unless new sources have been published since I last checked. Left guide (talk) 11:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
- Note the difference in the title spelling between the new contested draft (which says foul), and the long-standing article/redirect (which says fouls). Left guide (talk) 11:57, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
- The list feels like a WP:COATRACK at Personal foul (basketball), a generic basketball page. Seems WP:UNDUE to highlight one league in the world, esp. if the coverage is limited to stats DBs. —Bagumba (talk) 06:02, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Bagumba: You raise some valid points, and hence I don't feel too strongly about its inclusion by this point, so feel free to gut the section if you wish. Left guide (talk) 07:54, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
- The list feels like a WP:COATRACK at Personal foul (basketball), a generic basketball page. Seems WP:UNDUE to highlight one league in the world, esp. if the coverage is limited to stats DBs. —Bagumba (talk) 06:02, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
Boxscore link changes
Hi team, the NBA just modified his internal url link for the boxscores. So, since now the previous one (http://www.nba.com/games/20140615/MIASAS/gameinfo.html) is deprecated and doesn't works. Now they have a new one (https://www.nba.com/game/mia-vs-sas-0041300405/box-score), and I'm not able to see the equivalence. Looks like a random number in the subfix. Any clue on how to fix it or convert this? As you know we have tons of them spread over hundreds of articles, so modifying them without finding a pattern can be a very tedious task... Thanks in advance. Patrickpedia (talk) 08:11, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- WP:LINKROT is the inherent problem lurking with using WP:BAREURLs. —Bagumba (talk) 08:55, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- NBA.com is always tinkering with their player profile links too w/o redirecting. Basketball Reference seems more stable. But again, there's always a risk with bare urls. Could go with citations, where some bot would archive the links. —Bagumba (talk) 09:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- Right! So maybe the best way is to use a bot for archive the old ones, but any clue on how to set the new ones? The pattern should be in somehow... --Patrickpedia (talk) 11:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC)