Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 01:36, 23 December 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the 2024 Magdeburg car attack article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 2 days

This page is not a forum for general discussion about 2024 Magdeburg car attack. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about 2024 Magdeburg car attack at the Reference desk.

Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

A news item involving 2024 Magdeburg car attack was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the In the news section on 21 December 2024.

This article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Crime and Criminal Biography: Serial, mass, and spree killers / Terrorism Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by the Serial Killer task force (assessed as Mid-importance). This article is supported by the Terrorism task force (assessed as Mid-importance). Disaster management Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Disaster management, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Disaster management on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Disaster managementWikipedia:WikiProject Disaster managementTemplate:WikiProject Disaster managementDisaster management Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Germany Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Death Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Atheism Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Atheism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of atheism on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AtheismWikipedia:WikiProject AtheismTemplate:WikiProject AtheismAtheism Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. For more information and how you can help, click the link opposite: If you would like to participate, you can edit this article and visit the project page. Quick help Project's main talk page Article layout Links to atheism-related information · List of free online resources Writing about religion · Article development Citing sources · Verifying sources · About original research Assume good faith · Be civil Recent activity Core articles the "Atheism" article Articles recently added to Category:Atheism To do edit history watch purge Join WikiProject atheism and be bold. Add a userbox to your page ({{User WikiProject Atheism}} or {{User WPA2}}) and attract potential members. Help with articles. See this month's adopt-an-article. Help out with this to-do list. Be consistent Use a "standard" layout for atheism-related articles (see layout style, "The perfect article" and Featured articles). Add Atheism info box to all atheism related talk pages (use {{WikiProject Atheism}} or see info box) Ensure atheism-related articles are members of Atheism by checking whether ] has been added to atheism-related articles – and, where it hasn't, adding it. Maintenance, etc. Find sources for all positions of an article (see Citing sources and atheism references). Try to expand stubs. Ideas and theories about life, however, are prone to generating neologisms, so some stubs may be suitable for deletion (see deletion process). Watch the list of atheism-related articles and add to accordingly. Always write for an encyclopedia. Articles to improve Agnosticism Create Articles on notable atheists Expand an atheism stub Immediate attention State atheism needs a reassessment of its Importance level, as it has little to do with atheism and is instead an article about anti-theist/anti-religious actions of governments. False choice into False dilemma: discuss whether you are for or against this merge here Clarify references in Atheism using footnotes. Secular movement defines it as a being restricted to America in the 21st century. Conservatism Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Conservatism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of conservatism on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ConservatismWikipedia:WikiProject ConservatismTemplate:WikiProject ConservatismConservatism Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

WP:BRD

@2a02:3038:20a:efe7:b8bb:856d:9672:d927 Would you mind explaining why you believe that an individual being arrested on suspicion of planning an attack against a Christmas market is somehow not relevant to the background of an attack on a Christmas market? CommissarDoggo 21:23, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

It's wikipedia, we have to deal with the bias Jjbomb (talk) 21:30, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

It's nothing new to Germany. What's new is that the security measures where pretty poor, because every Xmas market is secured with concrete barricades. In this case, they failed. 2A02:3038:20A:EFE7:B8BB:856D:9672:D927 (talk) 21:37, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Business as usual. Like school shootings in the US. Do we cite every attempted school shooting in an actual article? 2A02:3038:20A:EFE7:B8BB:856D:9672:D927 (talk) 21:44, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

It may be nothing new, but ultimately that info is about a suspected attack that was supposedly going to be conducted against a Christmas market this year. I fail to see how it's unworthy of note when sources about this attack are mentioning it. CommissarDoggo 21:40, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

As above. 2A02:3038:20A:EFE7:B8BB:856D:9672:D927 (talk) 21:44, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

That doesn't address the fact that the arrest was noted by sources directly relating to this attack; if said attempted/suspected school shooting arrests were noted by sources, we would be having this conversation there as well. CommissarDoggo 21:48, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

I see. I guess I pass then. 2A02:3038:20A:EFE7:B8BB:856D:9672:D927 (talk) 21:49, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't think it's relevant at all to this attack. That other attacks were planned is not related until someone specifically says it was related to this event, in something other than just timine. That it's the 8th anniversary of other attacks is random trivia, that other attacks happened is unrelated. A lot of the major sources are rolling back even calling this 'an attack' at this point. I think we need to hold fire until more is know. per WP:NOTNEWS JeffUK 23:05, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Edit war

Please be aware of the pending edit war in the article. It is all about this fragment: . Karol739 (talk) 22:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

No need for an edit war. Both cases are connected. Editors should add, that the attacker was a practising psychiatrist. Really strange, since the guy has all the means to calm himself down from a rage. 2A02:3038:20A:EFE7:B8BB:856D:9672:D927 (talk) 22:04, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Do you have any source for the information that he was a psychiatrist? Thanks in advance, Karol739 (talk) 22:05, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

It's in the article now: The suspect, a consultant for psychiatry and psychotherapy, was recognised as a refugee in 2016. 2A02:3038:20A:EFE7:B8BB:856D:9672:D927 (talk) 22:31, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I've added that. Thanks a lot! Karol739 (talk) 22:34, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Background

I think the Background section should mention a recent plot related with German Christmas markets: https://www.politico.eu/article/terror-attack-bavaria-christmas-market-foiled-terrorism-isis-islamic-state-extremism-far-right-police/ 31.221.146.133 (talk) 22:42, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Already discussed above and now re-added to the article as it was mentioned in current sources talking about this attack. CommissarDoggo 22:52, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Two more incidents did happen in recent times:

• https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Terroranschlag-auf-Weihnachtsmarkt-geplant-Polizei-nimmt-17-Jaehrigen-in-Elmshorn-fest-article25353789.html
• https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/ein-sturmgewehr-fuer-den-weihnachtsmarkt-110168195.html

This stuff is really business as usual. I'd suggest to add all incidents or leave all out. 2A02:3038:20A:EFE7:B8BB:856D:9672:D927 (talk) 23:37, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Why should we remove that? Regards, Karol739 (talk) 23:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Identity of perpetrator

It's probably him, right? According to Der Spiegel, the perpretator's name is Taleb A: https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/magdeburg-news-autofahrer-faehrt-in-menschenmenge-behoerden-gehen-von-anschlag-aus-a-58a3c255-9a4b-45a8-8e65-8ceac63477cd. Maxeto0910 (talk) 00:33, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Why is the perpetrator parameter not added to infobox? 207.96.32.81 (talk) 00:38, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

"It's probably him, right?" Based on what? You found a random tweet from 2017 with an image of a passport of a guy with the same name? Brandon Downes (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Same name, same age, same nationality. Die Welt also connected this X account to him: https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article254939378/Anschlag-auf-Weihnachtsmarkt-Arzt-Islamgegner-seit-2006-in-Deutschland-Das-wissen-wir-ueber-den-Attentaeter-von-Magdeburg.html. Of course we'll have to wait until there is more clarity. However, it's still interesting. Maxeto0910 (talk) 00:43, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

If you have enough reliable sources, be WP:Bold and update the infobox. The twitter connection may be WP:Original but the name is widely sourced. 207.96.32.81 (talk) 00:44, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

It's him: . Saudi atheist, right winger, AfD and Musk fan. 2A02:3038:20A:EFE7:B8BB:856D:9672:D927 (talk) 00:44, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

The driver of the car was subsequently arrested. He was an anti-Christian Muslim. 190.219.101.225 (talk) 00:58, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

From what is being reported and if the twitter account is his then this is nonsense... he was a refugee on the basis that he was literally an ex-muslim who was critical of Islam Brandon Downes (talk) 01:17, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Ofc it's him. Nobody grants asylum to Saudis in Germany, unless they are gay or ex-Muslim. He even practices as a doctor. That's not your typical refugee. 2A02:3038:20A:EFE7:B8BB:856D:9672:D927 (talk) 01:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Nope, he hates muslims, and is pro Israel and supports AfD and thinks Germany wants to "Islamize Europe". Seems to be some sort of Case of internalized hatred and self radicalization and then acting upon his hatred. Midgetman433 (talk) 01:36, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Just cause he’s islamophobic doesn’t mean the attack is due to Islamophobia Cherry567 (talk) 09:14, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Source? Trust me bro? Bassimoo7 (talk) 22:02, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

There should be a motive section added in sidebar, just like there are with similar incidents.

For consistency there should be a motive section added. It would be insightful as with previous such incidents. Midgetman433 (talk) 01:28, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Similar incidents get labeled as "Islamic extremism" and "anti semitism", so its only fair people mention this guy's political motives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Midgetman433 (talk • contribs) 01:37, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 December 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Full name of the perpetrator: Taleb Jawad Al Abdulmohsen. source 2003:100:3700:8C00:13C:606C:5427:FCA4 (talk) 01:56, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. EvergreenFir (talk) 03:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 December 2024 (2)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please add to the infobox:

Motive: Anti-German sentiment

and add the category Category:Anti-German sentiment in Europe. 95.91.212.226 (talk) 05:29, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

His sentiment was not against "Germans" pro toto, but against supposed "sell-out traitors of Germany", of whom he believed to be a conspiracy that had subverted the country. He loved to cite German right-wing extremists approvingly; his ideology fits like a glove with that of PEGIDA. He is, if anything, pro-German (albeit not in a way that approved of democratic Germany). 2A0A:A547:22A4:0:C9BE:3FA8:1520:B410 (talk) 20:19, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. EvergreenFir (talk) 03:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Pro Greater Israel Views

It is important to mention the suspect was a staunch supporter of Greater Israel, calling for an Israel from Euphrates to Tigris in the middle east, effectively devouring great parts of its neighboring countries. Celebrated Israel's recent occupation of parts of Syria. His ultra-Zionist views are evident in his social media accounts. 78.40.176.221 (talk) 09:25, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, Nile* to Euphrates 78.40.176.221 (talk) 09:26, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Right-wing terrorism

So this person was an atheist ex-Muslim who was upset about the treatment of ex-Muslim asylum seekers in Germany, and as such made tweets calling for the widespread slaughter of and terrorism against German citizens in response to them not helping asylum seekers from his home country enough. Misplaced Pages editors classify this motive as "right-wing terrorism," because as we all know, German right-wing extremists are primarily known for their fanatical support of Saudi Arabian asylum seekers. This is a laughable political spin. 2600:4040:4938:6500:1D40:2AA9:8A6F:592C (talk) 09:19, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Several well-known functionaries of the German far-right party AfD and its right-wing extremist youth organization Junge Alternative followed the attacker's X channel. --2A02:3038:204:BAC6:5F12:41D6:6D6F:CC92 (talk) 10:06, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

And so because someone followed him on social media this is sufficient, in your opinion, to classify the attack as "right-wing terrorism" even though the attacker was clearly motivated by mistreatment of asylum seekers by the German government, which few reasonable people would classify as a right-wing position in Germany. This doesn't make sense. 2600:4040:4938:6500:1D40:2AA9:8A6F:592C (talk) 10:10, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

His video appearance: . RAIR Foundation USA (Rise Align Ignite Reclaim) is a grassroots activist organization comprised of everyday Americans leading a movement to reclaim our Republic from the network of individuals and organizations waging war on Americans, our Constitution, our borders and our Judeo-Christian values. This guy was an ultra right winger for sure. --2A02:3038:204:BAC6:5F12:41D6:6D6F:CC92 (talk) 10:20, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

So he drives his car into a crowd of Germans at a Christmas market after posting in Arabic about the need to slaughter German citizens online and a war against Germany for their refusal to help his countrymen gain entry into Germany, and because he's made statements against Islam this classifies him as "right-wing." Yeah, no, sorry, this is ridiculous and you people are coping. 2600:4040:4938:6500:1D40:2AA9:8A6F:592C (talk) 10:28, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Typical right wing terrorist profile if you ask me: . Also a proponent of Greater Israel views. 2A02:3038:204:BAC6:5F12:41D6:6D6F:CC92 (talk) 10:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Breivik copycat, in a nutshell. Whether he read Breivik's "2083" manifesto is a very interesting question, but I am not sure whether we will ever get a good answer to that, since it is unlikely to be a focus in the investigation. It is only certain that he is a very publicly outspoken adherent of the "Great Replacement" narrative in precisely the same form as Breivik was (with a "cabal" of "bleeding-hearts" as "fifth column"), and that he has the exactly same craving to "serve justice" to the "traitors of the Occident", and that he holds similar views regarding Israel's role as a "bulwark state" against the "Muslim deluge", and that he was in Germany already when Breivik committed his crimes and was exposed to European reporting thereof, and that he only became a radical with a desire for murder some time afterwards, and that like Breivik he invented a "secret organization" to kill "traitors who sell out to Islam" with himself as the only demonstrable member. 2A0A:A547:22A4:0:C9BE:3FA8:1520:B410 (talk) 20:13, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree. Ultra right winger, mass murderer and "christian values" defender Breivik shot 69 kids who were as European as him. But "muh Islam". 2A02:3038:201:7EE4:B469:EBE5:1175:5CBB (talk) 21:36, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

1. Bahlmann, Henrik; Höfner, Roman; Janevska, Aleksandra; Kiran, Ayla; Lehberger, Roman; Maxwill, Peter; Milatz, Marvin; Müller, Ann-Katrin; Ruhnow, Evelin (2024-12-20). "Magdeburg – News: Autofahrer fährt in Menschenmenge – Behörden gehen von Anschlag aus". Der Spiegel (in German). ISSN 2195-1349. Retrieved 2024-12-21.

Alleged

While I of course believe that everyone has the right to a fair trial and fair media representation, there should be some consensus on where "alleged" has to appear, and where is too much and clunky.

I don't think the sentence "a driver drove a black BMW rental car" needs "alleged" anywhere. There's no reasonable doubt that a car was driven. Nobody is suggesting it was pushed by an external force such as a hurricane. "A driver" does not suggest that the man arrested is this driver. It does not suggest that the eventual perpetrator of this act had any gender, colour, ideology, age, anything.

Avoiding this altogether by saying "a car drove" is as incorrect as saying "a knife stabbed" or "bullets shot".

However when we are talking about specific acts involving people, I believe it is fair to write "The alleged driver of the vehicle was subsequently arrested at the Allee-Center tram station." This is an incident that happened to one identifiable person. It does not imply that he was the vague "a driver" from the other sentence. Unknown Temptation (talk) 13:19, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

+1 Maxeto0910 (talk) 13:37, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Alleged?

is there any doubt that the man they arrested at the scene was the perpetrator? Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:07, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

The courts will decide his guilt. Until then his crime is alleged. WWGB (talk) 14:12, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

The crime is not "alleged" but extensively documented on photos and videos. What the courts will decide is whether it is classed as terrorism, or "simple" multiple first-degree murder, or as manslaughter under the influence of mind-altering substances (police confirm he used some unspecified "mind-altering drug", before the attack, but probaby after acquiring the car).

If you have evidence that the person arrested is not the perpetrator, please present your WP:RS. Or maybe you confuse "alleged" with "accused"? 2A0A:A547:22A4:0:C9BE:3FA8:1520:B410 (talk) 19:58, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Either one should work per MOS:ALLEGED: "alleged and accused are appropriate when wrongdoing is asserted but undetermined, such as with people awaiting or undergoing a criminal trial" _Gravity 23:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

The crimes are indeed alleged. He's not been found guilty yet. His documented actions of driving the car into a crowd are not alleged though. EvergreenFir (talk) 04:01, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Motive Islamophobia

The Motive is clearly Islamophobia. "Germany wants to Islamize Europe."

"Syrian jihadists are receiving asylum in Germany"

A few minutes before the attack, he posted more videos. In one of them, Abdulmohsen said: "The police themselves are the criminals. In this case, I hold the German nation, I hold the German citizens responsible"

Abdulmohsen declared that Angela Merkel deserved the death penalty for her secret criminal project of Islamizing Europe.

This Guy thought Germany and German police were protecting "Jihadists". Midgetman433 (talk) 15:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Is there a source for that being the motive or is it your conclusion, i.e. WP:OR? It is quite obvious that the guy has something against Islam (and a couple other things), but as far as I can see German police are still investigating. 2001:2020:337:DF3D:7D64:1291:1EB4:3383 (talk) 15:42, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

He wrote many of these posts right before he did the attack. Midgetman433 (talk) 15:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Here is a source.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 18:44, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Just because he’s islamophobic doesn’t mean this is why he attacked Cherry567 (talk) 15:16, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Attack time was at least 19:02

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c1j08p44w9kt?post=asset%3Afa265a31-c674-406b-a54a-827975997230#post 2A00:11B1:101F:DDAD:FC59:C031:1498:3313 (talk) 15:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. EvergreenFir (talk) 04:01, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Attacker was pretending to be atheist

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The attacker has been exposed to be an Islamist who supported ISIS and Hamas, but pretended to be an atheist. The MSM has fallen for his lies. See these Twitter posts:

https://x.com/Moraqeb2020/status/1870281930983219599?t=-Qk8vnK-wYotE3GNyYf0gQ

https://x.com/Salansar1/status/1870382338040848634?t=YuaCrqluxHDyrTDlOHEX1A

Linkin Prankster (talk) 15:39, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

X posts are not reliable sources. WP:TWITTER 207.96.32.81 (talk) 16:52, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Motive should be determined by actions, not words

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The terrorist attacked a Christmas market, how can you claim he is Islamophobic? I propose an edit change motive to Religious extremism, Germanophobia, Christophobia. 62.80.225.198 (talk) 15:58, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

There has to be reliable sources. 207.96.32.81 (talk) 16:51, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

We have reliable coverage of the attack, as well as identity of the attacker. Mainstream and government sources hesitate to admit the nature of these reoccuring attacks, that should not prevent editors to state what is happening. 62.80.225.198 (talk) 19:11, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Please consult your Holy Bible and cite the passage which mentions Christmas markets (emphasis added) as a legit Christian rite. While you're at it, you may also check out Matthew 21:12–17, Mark 11:15–19, Luke 19:45–48) or John 2:13–16.

Christian fundamentalists reject Christmas markets as a "commodification of faith". However that may be, they are not a long-standing German tradition (Nuremberg being the major exception), but have only become prominent in the last 20 years or so as an extension of the St. Nicholas fairs held in many places across Central Europe. Most people go there primarily to get tipsy on low-grade mulled wine, which is also not a Christian rite as far as I am aware of. In short, the idea that there is anything specifically "Christian" about these commercial events except the date is just as plain wrong as claiming that Halloween trick-or-treating is "paganism".

"ake not my Father's house a house of merchandise". 19:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A0A:A547:22A4:0:C9BE:3FA8:1520:B410 (talk)

Canvassing?

Seems to be a weird flux of drive-by comments from IPs who are just complaining Trade (talk) 17:07, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Unsurprising given that the perp's motive was basically straight out of Breivik's "2083", up to and including a fabricated "secret organization" to combat "dhimmitude" by murdering "traitors", and this of course sets people who support these notions into damage-control mode.

Not that straight if people are too afraid to include the motive in the infobox. Unless, you want to?--Trade (talk) 01:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

"Musk claimed that "Only the AfD can save Germany" in a post on X"

That was before it turned out that the perpetrator was a AfD and Musk fanboy, and AFAIR even before the attack itself. It should be changed accordingly.

As it is written, it seems to be a reaction after the attack, and after the perp's social-media history became public. (IIRC Musk gave the cited statement before the attack, and afterwards reacted by accusing Chancellor Scholz of lame-duckism, and then the perp's political leaning and social-media habits were revealed and I am not aware if Musk has said anything on the issue since - which is probably wise, since the perp repeatedly cited Musk to "justify" his murderous agenda.) 2A0A:A547:22A4:0:C9BE:3FA8:1520:B410 (talk) 19:51, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

The opinion of Musk, a private citizen, is irrelevant. Removed from article. Please gain consensus before re-adding. WWGB (talk) 01:29, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

I support the inclusion of Musk's opinion, he is a prominent billionaire enterprenuer, political donor, activist and conspiracy theorist. I mean, come on, he is one of the richest and most politically powerful men in the world. His opinion is included in 2024 British riots too. Theofunny (talk) 15:22, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

I also support including Musk’s comments. They’ve been extensively covered by RS. Bondegezou (talk) 16:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Motive - "Anti-immigration restrictionist" - that is a blatant lie

Taleb Al-Abdulmohsen even ran a web site that helped people migrate to Germany. He was featured on BBC. 2003:D1:C730:1961:C912:A1D7:BEE2:DDB4 (talk) 09:59, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

He was "anti-islamic" immigration specifically according to sources. Theofunny (talk) 10:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

He was anti-Muslim immigration but support atheist refugees immigrating. In fact that’s one reason he is mad at Germany. I’m not sure if saying it’s an anti-immigration attack is appropriate Cherry567 (talk) 15:02, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Minor fix

In the infobox the man arrested is referred both as "Taleb- Al Abdulmosheh" and "Taleb Al- Abdulmosheh", I think the second is the correct.31.221.146.133 (talk) 10:06, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Infobox picture

Why the infobox picture is a still from a recording of a CCTV recording (copyright? hello?) and by having this, do we now allow such pictures of dying people in the open on Misplaced Pages? Kuracyja (talk) 11:28, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

@Kuracyja Please see the Commons page for the image, it's ineligible for copyright as the picture was created by CCTV. As for your second point, so far it seems to be the best image of the attack itself that was free use, as such it will likely remain there. CommissarDoggo 11:34, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

As an example, Killing of Brian Thompson also has a still from CCTV of the shooting as its infobox image. CommissarDoggo 11:35, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

"the picture was created by CCTV" - it's a recording of a CCTV recording. Not an original CCTV recording as Template:PD-automated suggests. Kuracyja (talk) 12:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

If you wish to contest the validity of the template, I can only advise that you contest it on the Commons talk page, not here. My understanding of it is that an image consisting entirely of a CCTV recording is no more copyrightable than that recording. CommissarDoggo 12:31, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Misinformation regarding the attacker’s religous views

https://x.com/MaralSalmassi/status/1870413236996092217https://x.com/MaralSalmassi/status/1870413236996092217/quoteshttps://x.com/brainhurty2000/status/1870748491032703430https://x.com/afalkhatib/status/1870557768673014066https://x.com/violent_corgi/status/1870557019192557965

folks r claiming that the attacker is a Muslim using out of context tweets. Perhaps we should clarify it in this wiki and the one abt him Cherry567 (talk) 12:28, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Official motive

While it seems that the perpetrator's motive has been the subject of much debate and heated editing, it seems that an official statement has finally been made. It may seem preliminary, but since it is official, I suppose it could be added to the article and the infobox.

"Prosecutors make first comments on potential motive". DW. 2024-12-22.

A senior public prosecutor in Magdeburg, Horst Walter Nopens, offered first indications about the potenital motive for the attack in a press conference on Saturday.

He said the suspect had made comments about his motive during questioning but that it was still necessary to see which of these held up to scrutiny.

Based on current information, he said, the motivation for the crime "could have been ... dissatisfaction with the treatment of Saudi Arabian refugees in Germany."

—79.163.180.66 (talk) 17:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Note that "could have been" in the quote. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 17:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Still, someone has included it in the lead. Theofunny (talk) 20:16, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Surely we need the verdict of a court to confirm what they find the motive to be before we include it. Speculation, especially by 'prosecutors', cannot be asserted as if fact in Misplaced Pages's voice by putting it in the infobox. -- DeFacto (talk). 18:05, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Suspect past tense?

In the introduction the suspect is mentioned in the past tense ("was a 50-year-old refugee"). When I read that, I assumed he'd died. Which does not seem to be the case. So maybe make it the present tense? Ribidag (talk) Ribidag (talk) 18:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

•  Done--♦IanMacM♦ 19:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Photo of perpretator

1) Concerning the year of the photo: Just because his passport was issued in 2008 doesn't necessarily imply that the photo used on it has to be from the same year. The reference cited doesn't verify the year of the photo either.

2) Do we really need a photo of the perpretator in this article when we have an own article about him in which it is already included? Seems kinda redundant. Sure, in case his article gets merged, it would make sense, but thats something we could do in the future, not to mention that it looks like the article will be kept as of now. Maxeto0910 (talk) 20:06, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

1) Saudi passport requirements stipulate that the photo be taken within the six months prior to application (source). Surely he could submit one taken earlier where he looks the same, but I think that's why the date is given as *circa* 2008.

2) Personally, for what it's worth, I see no redundancy there. —79.163.180.66 (talk) 21:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

1) "Circa" means around 2008, but we don't know anything about the year of the photo, which is why it's just wrong to state that. It could be from 1995, which isn't close to 2008, so "circa 2008" is purely speculative and based on the assumption that he sticked to the Saudi passport requirements. Only thing we can say with certainity is that it's from before 2009.

2) I'm not sure if the photo really provides that much value to readers. Sure, for the article of the person it does, but it doesn't aid the understanding of the attack, so I'd argue we don't need it here as long as the suspected perpetrator has his own article with the photo. Maxeto0910 (talk) 21:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Viktor Orbán's response

Viktor Orbán, the prime minister of Hungary, vowed to "fight back" against open border policies after stating that there is a connection behind illegal immigration to western Europe and terrorist attacks.

The cited article () doesn't seem to contain any information related to Viktor.

1. "Magdeburg Christmas market attack suspect faces murder charges". The Guardian. December 22, 2024.

内存溢出的猫 (talk) 21:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Should we add a greater emphasis on Taqiyya in his motive?

Currently, the suspected perpetrator is described as Islamophobic. Would it be appropriate to state that this is disputed, and that many argue that he is a Muslim who practiced Taqiyya to hide his religion? Is this a fringe view? Would like to hear Misplaced Pages's thoughts.

Thanks! JohnR1Roberts (talk) 21:25, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, this is indeed a fringe view. The people pushing this narrative are ignoring explicit statements by this guy, and projecting their own narratives onto him, b/c it undermines their politics. There is no evidence that he was "secretly muslim" or whatever, but plenty of evidence that he was anti muslim as stated by the authorities themselves. Midgetman433 (talk) 01:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 December 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

It was a terrorist attack. 2001:1970:58AC:8700:5DD5:1E7F:A20A:86A4 (talk) 00:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. EvergreenFir (talk) 00:12, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages In the news articles
• B-Class Crime-related articles
• Mid-importance Crime-related articles
• B-Class Serial killer-related articles
• Mid-importance Serial killer-related articles
• Serial Killer task force
• B-Class Terrorism articles
• Mid-importance Terrorism articles
• Terrorism task force articles
• WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography articles
• B-Class Disaster management articles
• Low-importance Disaster management articles
• B-Class Germany articles
• Mid-importance Germany articles
• WikiProject Germany articles
• B-Class Death articles
• Low-importance Death articles
• B-Class Atheism articles
• Low-importance Atheism articles
• B-Class Conservatism articles
• Low-importance Conservatism articles
• WikiProject Conservatism articles