Misplaced Pages

• • (edit conflict) Chances are both of them are socks of some other blocked user. I've notified Jersyko about this thread so he might be able to indentify them for us, but I suspect he won't be around until at least daybreak in the U.S., several hours from now. (I should write on my userpage that I'm an extreme night owl.) Grandmasterka 09:11, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

CheckUser says this is the banned Dereks1x. Dmcdevit·t 09:15, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Ah! What a surprise! - Alison ☺ 09:17, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Fits doesn't it? Anyway, indef blocks anyone? --Kzrulzuall 09:18, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Way ahead of you.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 09:21, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Careful Ryulong, didn't you see that you now support fraud and cover-up? Seraphimblade 09:22, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

"support fraud and cover-up?" That comment doesn't seeem to be very civil, Seraphimblade, so can you calm down a bit. --Kzrulzuall 09:29, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Er, time for the annual humor sensor readjustment? Try reading it in context this time... ;-) Dmcdevit·t 09:35, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh right. I was wondering about why that comment was placed, especially by Seraphimblade... Sorry. Well I better go and sob in my corner...and I still don't get the joke. --Kzrulzuall 09:53, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I quote MAB1970, "Block me and delete this AN/I and you prove that you support fraud and cover-up." Ryulong blocked MAB1970. I think we have an airtight case! :-) Abecedare 10:08, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Well that explains it... I was searching through Ryulong's userpage trying to find any mention of fraud and cover-up... --Kzrulzuall 10:12, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

See, that is the cherry on the "conspiracy theory" cake ... absence of evidence of fraud proves the cover up. :-) Abecedare 10:21, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

How fun! That was a nice start to my morning. Thanks everyone. · j e r s y k o talk · 12:43, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Slightly unresolved

I got targetted by two more socks after I blocked them, but I requested that a checkuser block be put in place to get this guy to give up for a while.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 22:56, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I sincerely hope that works. However, given that I and others have hard blocked IPs that Dereks1x and his socks are known to be editing from yet more socks keep appearing and more edits continue to be made, I suspect that it might not stop him . . . · jersyko talk 02:46, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I certainly doubt that his Arbitration request against me will be even accepted.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 02:49, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Frankly, I'm surprised he hasn't accused you of being my sock yet, as has been his MO so far. · jersyko talk 02:52, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Obvious hoaxes

user:PossumWith seems to be creating (Special:Contributions/PossumWith) obvious hoaxes based on existing Misplaced Pages article. Could an admin review his contribution and delete the hoaxes? (As a side note, is there a real speedy criteria for such obvious hoaxes? I think G1 can't apply here.) -- lucasbfr 11:03, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Different admins feel different ways about obvious hoaxes. Some prefer there to be an "obvious nonsense" tag. Others, like me, view big, obvious hoaxes as vandalism. Others believe that there is no existing speedy criterion and that hoaxes have to go to AfD. I think they're speedies, but I also understand and agree with there not being an easily applied CSD category. Geogre 11:08, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Hoaxes are not speedyable IMO because they may not actually be hoaxes - if you get my meaning. NOt talking specific examples here. Viridae 11:57, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

An unsourced, implausible article can easily be tagged with proposed deletion (PROD) and a suitable explanation. If the tag is removed then it can be taken to Articles for deletion (AfD). If someone properly sources the article and removes the tag, all is well. --Tony Sidaway 12:02, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I've speedied two obvious hoaxes recently (and permablocked their perpetrators). One was brought to my attention by the relevant WikiProject and so I was not just acting on my own judgement, the other was a hoax that came after move vandalism. When an admin is faced with such compelling evidence, I don't really think it matters exactly which CSD it falls under! If the admin is not sure, then of course a PROD or an AfD is more appropriate. Physchim62 (talk) 12:43, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

There is no clear CSD for hoaxes, but I think in cases of extremely obvious hoaxes you could make a judgment call and speedy it without anyone making too big a fuss. Of course I would have to be 110% sure that this is absolutely, positively, a hoax with no chance of ever being verifiable before I would speedy something like that... because if you are wrong then you are looking at a possible WP:DRV.--Isotope23 12:50, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that in clear-cut cases one can speedy. The evidence has to be a bit more than "this looks a bit improbable", and both the creator's prior behavior and the considered opinion of third parties can be decisive in cases where doubt would otherwise merit a PROD or AfD. I wouldn't like to see an attempt to codify this in the criteria for speedy deletion (CSD) but it seems to me this kind of deletion, in the right circumstances, is well within administrator discretion. --Tony Sidaway 12:54, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

The problem with that statement is that there is meant to be no administrator discretion about CSD - either it is explicitly covered by a CSD criterion or it isn't. If there is any doubt that one or more criteria apply then it is by definition not eligible for speedy deletion. PROD was set-up to handle probably-non controversial deletions that didn't meet the speedy criteria. In this case, if the article is >100% certainly a hoax and other factors (e.g. third party opinion, author's prior behaviour) also indicate it as not valid, then it is speediable as G3 vandalism. Thryduulf 13:36, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

WP:IAR does have its legitimate purposes. I deleted an article about a blue whale that lived in Saskatchewan, it would swim along the plains. Being a whale that lived on land was certainly a claim of notability, so no CSD applied. I used IAR and deleted it. _InBC 13:40, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Ditto what HighInBC said. For process wonks, I'm willing to say that obvious hoaxes constitute disruptive editing that should be rolled back or deleted, or perhaps that they're just simple vandalism and can be speedied under that criterion. For people willing to employ common sense, we have WP:IAR and no further explanation is required for a reasonable deletion. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:45, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I have speedied a number of blatantly obvious hoaxes. (In addition to inherent indicia of implausibility or complete lack of verifiability, I have found a useful criterion to be whether the alleged hoax article is the creator's only edit or series of edits.) On the other hand, I have also seen an alleged hoax article on AfD and demonstrated it wasn't a hoax at all, so caution should be used. Newyorkbrad 16:38, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I spend a lot of time tagging articles to be speedied, and I try to follow a guideline of plausibility, much as others have described. For things that could be real, I prod them instead of putting a speedy tag, following the logic of WP:HOAX that apparent hoaxes aren't speedyable because they might not be hoaxes and thus deserve more time and eyeballs. For example, a couple of days ago I prodded Peter Boylan, because it's certainly possible that this person exists and does the things described, though extremely unlikely. An article about a land-swimming whale is something I'd likely mark as speedyable under G1, with the idea being that it's not a hoax, but rather complete nonsense. I try to err on the side of caution, though, so it has to be blatantly impossible and obviously unsourced before I'd try to have it speedied. Pinball22 17:08, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

How obvious is "obvious"? Truly, truly obvious, nonsensical hoaxes aren't worth a second thought before tagging/deleting -- take Non Sequitur's example of uploading an article about yourself winning the Nobel Prize for Best Girl of All Time, or whatever it was. Just delete and be done with it. Less obvious cases, though, I think that's more what we're getting at with "hoax isn't a speedy criteria" (and the really obvious hoaxes are presumably covered as nonsense or vandalism, anyway). That's my take, anyway. – Luna Santin (talk) 21:48, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Blatantly obvious hoaxes which are confirmable as fake by a simple Google search should be speedied, inasmuch they substantively and actively decrease the quality of the encyclopedia, and mislead any reader which might happen to stumble over them. Nothing which is false on Misplaced Pages is benign. If it's clearly nonsense, don't PROD it, nuke it. Every moment such an article exists on our encyclopedia is a blot on our copybook, inasmuch as we already have enough problems with our reputation for inaccuracy. We don't need to exacerbate the problem. We're rather lucky the media didn't get a hold of our article on a putative major city in Pennsylvania which happened to not actually exist, for example. FCYTravis 03:51, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Death threat again

I reported this edit yesterday under Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Possible death threat. The edit contained "!!You Remove You Die!!", apparently aimed at me who had just removed 3 times. See the earlier discussion for context. No action was taken. Any comments? PrimeHunter 11:16, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify, the first reported IP was blocked for 31 hours. This edit by a new IP was reported near the end of the discussion. PrimeHunter 11:19, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

It seams punitive to block the IP now, if it happens again, re-report it. Ryan Postlethwaite 12:53, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

As documented yesterday, the IP is almost certainly a sockpuppet of the first IP which is still blocked for threatening me. Is it really allowed, with no block, warning or any other comment, to repost a death threat with another IP after being blocked? I reported it 25 minutes after the edit. The IP only has one other edit. Ryan Postlethwaite made 7 posts arguing against the block of the first IP in the above discussion. Does somebody else want to comment? PrimeHunter 13:36, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

If the guy is changing IPs then blocking the IP would serve not purpose. `_InBC

As shown above, the two IP's are from different ISP's in the same city. If he has to change ISP to circumvent blocks then a second block might work. I also agree with RxS who wrote above "... we should be sending a message that says death threats (however they are stated) will not be tolerated". It seems we are sending the opposite message now. PrimeHunter 14:11, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

It hasn't happened again, the incident your referring to happened almost 24 hours aago, we block for protective and not punitive reasons. As I said, if it happens again, re-report it. Ryan Postlethwaite 14:49, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

On the bright side, their intended meaning is a bit more clear, this time. I'll see if I can try and keep an eye on it. May as well just block, if they pop up again. – Luna Santin (talk) 21:50, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

astrology.com

Looks like someone who had a beef with me subscribed my email address to a number of "newsletters" from astrology.com. This shady company does not verify the subscription request properly and does not allow me to unsubscribe from their spam. I'm reporting their unsolicited commercial email to their ISP (ivillage.com) and others, but if anyone else just got a whack of messages from this company, let me know and we'll see if we can figure out who impersonated us. --Yamla 13:53, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Before you unsubscribe, can you let me know what's in the forecast for Taurus this weekend? - eo 14:18, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

"Taurus April 20 - May 20 It's useless to sit at home and wish that a crazed masked murderer would take a welding torch and slaughter your town's sexually active teens when you own a perfectly good welder's torch yourself." Sucks, Yamla. Who would have thought that astrology could be shady? · jersyko talk 19:42, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Whew, thank goodness I picked up that new welder's torch at Wal-Mart last weekend. - eo 19:44, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

El-dood (talk · contribs) and Image:Retard.jpeg

I'd take this to AIV but since I can't see the image in question because I use a screen reader, I'm not completely sure about it. El-dood (talk · contribs) tried to insert Image:Retard.jpeg into mental retardation. Most of the edits of this user seem to be vandalism and the user has been blocked before. What should be done about the image and the user? It seems to be a vandalism only account judging by the contributions I can evaluate. Graham87 14:22, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I've blocked the user indefinitely for being a vandalism only account, and deleted the image. Incase you're curious, Image:Retard.jpeg was a school photo; the person in question was wearing a school uniform. I think it's pretty clear that it was meant as some form of attack. Thanks for the heads up. --Deskana (fry that thing!) 14:26, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks - I thought it'd be some kind of attack photo. It always pays to check these things though. Graham87 14:31, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Who's being a dick, me or them? *You* make the call!

(I love having fun with my headings)

Quick run-through: in Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, the main character (Jedi Exile) can be either male or female. Canonically, they are female (as noted on Wookieepedia). This is somewhat controversial, but that's neither here nor there; canon states that the Exile was female, end of story.

Along comes The Matrix Prime (talk · contribs), who is editing numerous articles to change the Exile's gender back to male. I've addressed this problem, complete with evidence why the Exile is female, on their talk page. The only rationale Matrix has provided has been basically "you have to just deal with it". Matrix also POINTedly tweaked the Exile article to remove any trace of gender.

Given his repeated reverts across multiple articles, I've warned him about 3RR.

Since this is almost a borderline content dispute, am I stepping "out of bounds" by bringing my mop to the fight? I've got a sourced claim to back up my edits, while he does not; my justification is that I'm removing incorrect information and unsourced claims, but I could easily be seen as being a total dick about the whole thing. So, I want some outside opinions.

Any feedback is more than welcome. :) EVula // talk // ☯ // 16:11, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd say that it's a content dispute (although such disputes can be clear-cut on occasion; I don't know anything about the subject, so I wouldn't know). I don't think anyone's violating the famous Meta page in this situation, especially if you've got sources; but to help prevent the matter escalating, I'd suggest that you don't use admin tools in the dispute (if it gets to the point where admin tools would be useful, ask another admin to take the action just to provide a sanity check and to keep AN/I just that bit calmer). Even admins can use WP:AN3 if they want to! --ais523 16:16, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Ugh... not this again. I think this was one of the very first disputes I ever saw when I started editing here. Give me some time to look into this a bit more.--Isotope23 16:28, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

It does appear to be a content dispute. I'm a bit perplexed why Wikia is being offered as a reliable source for this content; I would not consider it as such. Of course The Matrix Prime (talk · contribs) going around and changing the gender with no source isn't helping much either. I'd be happy to look at sources etc and provide an outside opinion (I personally don't really care either way if the Exile was male or female from a canonical aspect and I've played the game so I can probably provide an objective outside opinion), but at this time I don't really see any need for admin tools to be used.--Isotope23 16:39, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't citing wikia itself as the source, I was citing what Wookieepedia cited as its source. However, the full Gender section presents the full argument.
My only concern about the need for admin tools is if Matrix keeps making the changes without discussion; it'd be a violation of 3RR, but as the person that is conflicting with Matrix, I'm not sure if I should be the one to block over it, or if I should recuse myself (I'd rather not, as I enjoy taking care of things myself, but if there's a concern about a possible COI, I'd rather avoid it). EVula // talk // ☯ // 18:03, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to wait and see what effect, if any, your 3RR warning is going to have.--Isotope23 18:08, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Alrighty. In the interest of fairness, I've alerted the user to this discussion. EVula // talk // ☯ // 21:05, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't aware that the proof needed to trotted out again. Aside from that fact that the Exile is male canonally, end of story, the website called him male, the trailer also shows him as male and the official LucasArts promotional art for the Jedi Exile show a male Jedi and Sith (despite repeated attempts to pull that picture from the article *coughEVula cough*) and traditionally LucasArt has considered the male light side ending to any Star Wars game to be canon (or as canon as such games get). I don't really care if the Exile is male or female, I've played both ways and have no real preference; but I'm a sticker for the facts when it comes down to it.

In the interest of those unwilling to accept such and to be fair to all parties I compromised by changing my own edit to a complete gender neutral version. Unfortunately someone removed that edit and did not even bother to state why.

I realize I may be coming down a little heavy but we had this problem with the Revan article too and I’m not to happy to see that people have transferred it over to the Exile article now. I realize that since Revan was stated to be male it makes some people more determined that the Exile be female but so far their only source is “deal with it”.

Now I believe EVula is editing in good faith but I see no reason why the gender neutral version should be unacceptable in this case. --The Matrix Prime 21:55, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

As a third opinion, and someone who played KOTOR (so I understand the whole male/female issue about Revan which sounds exactly like the subject of this discussion.) It seems like a good idea to explain the overall concept that the Jedi Exile, as the player character can be male or female because it makes the tone sound more out of universe. Then address each piece of information as presented, for example the "x source" showed a male, the "y source" showed a female. Anynobody 10:37, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd have to agree with that... I've not seen anything that would constitute a reliable source for a canonical sex of this character. I'd say a qualifier in the articles and gender neutrality would be a good middle ground for the time being and an RFC or some sort of centralized discussion should be undertaken. At the end of the day, this is a content dispute and it would appear that both editors involved in it are good faith editing, they just are coming at it from opposite viewpoints.--Isotope23 16:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

HD-DVD decryption key

Over on the Cornish Wiktionary, where I'm the only sysop, it seems the HD-DVD encryption key postings have spread to there too. See kw:wikt:Special:Log/protect for more details.

In one of the postings, a connection to John Bambenek seems to be possible - although it could just have been someone spamming his email address.

I'd appreciate some help with people tagging them for deletion over there, just use {{delete}} (which we've got a similar version of there), and I'll delete it right away, or add it to protected titles if there are multiple re-postings.

kw:wikt:User:SunStar Net is my username there. Thanks, --SunStar Net 16:59, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I deleted this from Digital Rights Management because it felt wrong. Can someone point at a more firm pronouncement, and is it necessary to get the revisions deleted? Notinasnaid 19:20, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, found but it isn't clear if I should report the revision for deletion. Notinasnaid 19:27, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

User accusing another user of vandalism over a POV dispute

Experienced User:Vintagekits keeps spamming a vandalism tag on new User:Swuekilafe's talk page for this edit which is a POV dispute with Vintagekits over whether Malvinas is an English word. Spamming vandalism tags onto new users to promote a personal POPV that is highly disputed isnt aceptable IMO. Can an admin please take a look, SqueakBox 18:25, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

• More disruption from Vintagekits. Guy (Help!) 20:55, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Inappropriate removal of article's discussion page content

In the case of the article David_Boothroyd, on 5 April Admin FloNight removed, without obvious discussion, the majority of historical content for the article’s talk page – see http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:Log&page=Talk:David_Boothroyd

Although Admin El C sites “personal info” in his original deletion on the same date, he sensibly, it appears, immediately restored the remaining presumably non-personal info. There is therefore no apparent reason for Admin FloNight to have involved himself in such a hasty and undocumented deletion of material from a public article.

Having attempted twice (9 April and 16 April) to obtain clarification from Admin FloNight via his own talk page ] without response, I am now appealing for clarification and review as to why such an amount of previously relevant material has been removed from a discussion page of a public article.

I have left a message at FloNight talk page relating to this appeal in order than he is aware of the outline complaint against his decision to remove the material in question. leaky_caldron 18:46, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Please wait until Flo responds to your question on her Talk page. There doesn't seem to be any obvious hurry for the material to be re-added until such a time. Corvus cornix 19:00, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

The query has now been archived twice - how long do you suggest it is reasonable to wait? It would be easy to answer my question and Flo is answering other later queries, on other topics leaky_caldron 19:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Evidently I removed this as a speedy delete request for personal information. I think I deleted about 200 article that week that were backlogs. This was one of those. It has no special significance to me. It appears that this was a request made after material was added again after El C handled a request. Sorry for a slow reply, but I did not recall the specifics of the situation and did not make it a priority to review it as I have many other pending issues that I deemed more urgent. FloNight 19:32, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment: having looked at the deletion history, I think that the 38 edits that were originally restored were too many. Sometimes, when someone deletes and restores something inappropriate that has just been added, he or she may miss earlier inappropriate additions from the history. I'd only restore up to and including Kingbotk at 22:00, 19 September 2006 (UTC), plus, of course, edits from after 10:15, 5 April 2007, as they were not subject to the original deletion. Musical Linguist 19:41, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the point here is to allow David Boothroyd, i.e. user:DavidBoothroyd, to keep his other wikipedia identity private. While this has the air of trying to unscramble eggs, much of the deleted talk page content is trolling of this user. I don't see anything that must be restored in to order to understand and move forward editing the article. I could be persuaded to restore the content as Musical Linguist suggests, but only after obscuring the user's other account name. Thatcher131 20:18, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

This is true. There is no particular need to retain that history, and woe betide anyone who commits the gross privacy violation of mentioning the current username and the real name together (although the connection is trivially easy to establish). Guy (Help!) 20:53, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

The subject had asked that specific edits be removed from multiple pages (not just the biography), so I limited myself to that request. I don't wish to compromise Dbiv current account, but he expressed satisfaction with these measures. El_C 01:18, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

As the aggrieved party apparently expressed satisfaction at the removal of personal material by Admin User:El C then surely the appropriate action is to reinstate the position to the status following the User:El C changes?

User:FloNight has stated that they acted in haste and without any particular knowledge or interest (see above). However, on a point of fact, having now been able to untangle the relationship between the subject and their various editor names, it is not the case that the request for deletion was a backlog. Within 30 minutes of the subject's request on 5 April, Admin User:El C correctly removed the material supposedly compromising Boothroyd's wiki-editor identity.

It is therefore insufficient, in good practice, to make further sweeping changes, when the situation had already been correctly assessed and dealt with by User:El C to the subject's satisfaction.

Can I request that the discussion page is reinstated as per the User:El C edit at 10:22 on 5 April, subject of course to the removal of any residual "personal info" as suggested above by Thatcher131. Thanks leaky_caldron 09:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Please revert my monobook

I fried it again. Rollback one edit please. --Pupster210 20:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

You can do it yourself. In IE: Tools -> Internet Options -> Security -> Custom level. Then under 'Scripting' Set 'Active Scripting' to disable. Prodego 20:08, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Ahhhhh! Settings restricted at school!!!! --Pupster210 20:11, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

This is the third time User:Pupster21 has accidentally locked himself out by modifying his monobook, see WP:VPT. Would somebody please revert the last edit to User:Pupster21/monobook.js? The account that posted the message on WP:VPT is also operated by Pupster and he only uses it whenever his monobook fries up. Thanks in advance. Valentinian 20:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Looks like he beat me to posting here. It is the account mentioned directly above this post. Valentinian 20:06, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

He can do it himself. In IE: Tools -> Internet Options -> Security -> Custom level. Then under 'Scripting' Set 'Active Scripting' to disable. Prodego 20:08, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Ahhh! Settings restricted at school! --Pupster210 20:10, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I am mad at javascript. All I want is a working rollback button. --Pupster21 Talk To Me 20:13, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Incivility by User:Gon4z

Gon4z (talk · contribs) has a content dispute with User:Noclador about what material is currently owned by the Albanian Army. However, Gon4z now repeatedly smears Noclador on his talk page calling him "anti-Albanian" and his edits "propaganda". Gon4z has also behaved with a similar disregard for WP:CIVIL against other users lately, and a NPA warning I posted to his page was immediately removed. He rutinely threatens or smears other editors., , , , Will somebody please do something to make him stop attacking other users? Valentinian 20:27, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Semi-protection

This is not the place to put this. You may need Requests for Page Protection --24.136.230.38 21:06, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, OK. Wow, I didn't even know that page existed. Thanks! Anchoress 21:07, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Conduct of User:Kafziel and Fox News Channel

Can someone please look into the conduct of the above user on the Fox News Channel talk page. Although there has been a vigorous debate for weeks on this page, today Kafziel decided to unilaterally declare an edit war (although the history shows no sign of one ) and full block the page. When I told him I disagreed with the block and responded to his other concerns , he responded with this . First, I think it is troubling that a) he apparantly thinks lively discussion on the talk pages is an edit war, b) that he is apparantly gleeful about blocking everyone in a content dispute, and c) the unnecessarily hostile stance. Can someone please review this and remove the edit protection from the article, it is not needed. Ramsquire 21:23, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

As someone involved in this dispute, I actually support the page protection. This debate/edit war has been ongoing since October 2006 and includes one anon user who has been blanking the section since the very beginning (see diffs here). Without getting into the merits of either side of the argument, having the ability to continue reverting was not helping the discussion. If this forces discussion to continue (as it was already occurring), I see no need to unprotect just yet; let's give it some time. - auburnpilot talk 21:42, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. Although my objection remains (even though the correct version of the page has been locked), it should be noted that what led to the block was a report at 3RR for a user who was editting another section of the article. In addition, none of the current users who were discussing the intro on the talk page the last few days have been edit warring, as shown by the page history. But I will assume good faith and drop this for now. Ramsquire 21:58, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I have to step in and disagree with my friend AuburnPilot here... it's a very very bad thing when an admin feels the need to accuse all editors of being "out of hand" and worthy of blocks -- AuburnPilot, you yourself are very aware of the situation and persistant bad faith actions of some editors. By supporting this admin's actions you're both doing the good faith editors a disservice by supporting a lump categorization as well as inhibiting their ability to resolve the issues. Consensus building is a team effort that only works when everyone plays by the rules -- need I remind you of bad faith RFC's and blatant disregard of consensus and wikipolicies and guidelines by those editors? Protection and "encouraging discussion" with no understanding of the situation does no good. /Blaxthos 02:10, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

What I was saying was that if Tom needed to be blocked, so did everyone else. But I also said Tom didn't need to be blocked. By extension, neither do any of you. So let's not try to portray me as some block-happy maniac. In fact, your real complaint is that I didn't block anyone at all. But admins aren't attack dogs you can just sick on people you don't like.

Consensus building can occur whether the article is locked or not. Consensus building can't occur when one of the editors is frozen out of the discussion. Tom was warned, agreed to stop edit warring, and was willing to discuss the issue, so I didn't block him. As I already pointed out, he couldn't have violated 3RR unless the rest of you were on the other side reverting him. Just because a bunch of you ganged up on him doesn't mean it isn't an edit war. He was stubborn, POV-pushing, and bold, but none of those constitute vandalism so you should have discussed the issue without revert warring after it was clear he wasn't going to stop. 3RR isn't something you strive to push your opponents into so you can shut them up and win an argument. Kafziel 13:18, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

{{uw-block3}}

Hi, I'm bringing this here as I don't want to get into 3rr, and would appreciate some outside input. User:98E changed the image and some wording on {{uw-block3}} without an edit summary. I have almost all of the warning templates in my watch list and reverted the change with the edit summary please discuss any further changes at WT:UTM. He did leave a brief message which I missed but he then changed it straight back and I reverted him again and left a message asking him to discuss it. As I'd missed his note, and already reverted it twice I can't go any further. I'd rather as with all the templates that the change is discussed first, and left another message to that effect. If someone could have a look please would be appreciated. Cheers 21:48, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

After multiple warnings, User:98E continued to revert and has now been blocked for 24 hours by EVula. He/she is of course requesting to be unblocked. - auburnpilot talk 22:07, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Block log says he's been blocked a month ago by Nishkid for the same. I've had dealings with himr before and have to honestly say it had all been good. If it hadn't been for the other block would have argued on his behalf. Thanks for the intervention however. 22:12, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I have blocked 98E indefinitely per incriminating checkuser evidence. Picaroon (Talk) 22:58, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Another sockpuppet of Danny Daniel

Supericious (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is a probable sockpuppet of User:Danny Daniel (long term abuse styled page of Danny Daniel is already wikilinked in heading). The user created a hoax article called Space Ham (A spoof of Space Jam, an article that some of Danny Daniel's other likely indefinitely blocked sockpuppets, such as User:Choolabuuulba have started to edit. Usually, these accounts created hoaxes based on Space Jam.). The user also contributed to List of characters in My Gym Partner's a Monkey. Squirepants101 22:29, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

This incident was resolved by the User:Ryulong. Supericious has now been blocked. Squirepants101 23:26, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Request for sockpuppet block

My previous request appears to have been lost or buried in the sheer volume of material that gets added to this page so I am re-posting it in the hopes that it catches an admin's attention this time.

I would like to request blocks of probable sockpuppets as indicated by this checkuser case. Thank you. JFD 23:16, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

 Done Thatcher131 00:13, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

A request to restore a small part of deleted content

I do not believe this qualifies as an "administrator incident." I believe this is an editing dispute involving an administrator; however, the administrator in question disagrees and pointed me here. I shall attempt an unbiased summary and then proceed with my request.

A Misplaced Pages administrator, Swatjester, removed a portion of the Age of Conan article on the grounds of WP:V, WP:NOT, WP:EL, and WP:RS. Note that I partially agree with his deletions; in particular, regarding the guild-specific material. However, at the time, I mistakenly assumed this was another act of weekly vandalism and, after reverting, stated a gruff warning in my comment. He believed my warning was uncivil ("brutal") and, after undoing my last change, posted on my Talk Page in a manner which, I felt, was equally uncivil. A hotly-debated war of words began on his Talk Page.

However, I am not here to debate those events, my incivility or, in my opinion, his brusque intractability. I am posting here to request permission to retrieve certain sentences purged in his administrative deletions.

Now, I agree with the administrator that the bulk of the content he removed is, indeed, "unreferenced fancruft." I further agree that the majority of guild-specific content was appropriately removed in accordance with WP:V, WP:NOT, WP:EL, and WP:RS. I am not objecting to his enforcement of those policies or his overall reasons for the deletions. I am objecting that I cannot salvage certain imbedded sentences regarding Funcom's community initiatives: I would like to restore two small parts of his deleted content which are not "unreferenced fancruft." However, as Swatjester maintains that all the deleted content is unreferenced fancruft and also does not deem this as an editing dispute, I am in a bind.

In short, I would like to restore the following sentences from his administrative deletions:

And:

Note that the above sentences can be properly cited and/or referenced via official websites.

And, yes, this is a very trivial issue. -- Flask 00:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

If you want to put those sentences in, then go ahead; reverting that would certainly be an editing dispute. Your statement implies that you have previously attempted to put in only that information, which you haven't. -Amarkov moo! 00:31, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I have no objection to those sentences if they are sourced, however they are rather redundant and pointless: ALL publishers and developers give fan sites exclusive material: almost all include a community forum of some sort. That is commonly accepted in ALL games, not just MMORPG's, and I state that coming from extensive experience of work in the games industry in both management, editorialship, reviewing, and game development.⇒ SWATJester 02:52, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, as I mentioned on Amarkov's talk page, this is the first I am hearing about wanting to put in two lines. Those two lines were never discussed with me, certainly not discussed on the article talk page. If they had, we wouldn't be here, as they are obviously fine for inclusion. However the rest of the stuff wasn't, and the resulting brouhaha coming out of it was a little sickening. Again, see below section for more details. ⇒ SWATJester 15:55, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

response

This is not the whole story. I have made a total of two edits, reverting unsourced information about a non-notable, unsourced bit of game fan cruft. Diffs: my original removal of information, Flask's disruptive attack on me for deletion including threats, my revert and response, citing policy (current version. Please see my talk page for the full length of the discussion.

Content wise: this game is not yet released. There is overwhelming precedent not to add information about guilds to articles on MMORPGs: there is even less reason to add the information for one that has only been in beta testing for less than 1 week. The information was unreferenced, does not come from a reliable source (claims from the publisher itself about their own product), and is entirely non notable. Go see the diffs. Compare to our articles on Counter-strike, World of Warcraft, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest etc. Fan run community stuff is not suitable for inclusion unless it achieves some level of notability itself: this is well established.

So now we have WP:NOT a crystal ball, non notable, unsourced, unreliable information. I removed it, and I was immediately accused of a WP:OWN violation, disruptive editing, ignoring WP:V, incivility, abusing my authority as an administrator, threats, vandalism etc.....all in the space of one edit.

I'll point out Flask's edit summary there "Reverted a mass-deletion by Swatjester. If you continue to delete large sections of this article without any preceding Talk Page discussion, I'll report you for vandalism and notify an administrator." Who's making threats? My edit summary in response was to cite policy and state "I am an administrator.

Flask cannot even argue there is any talk page consensus. the history shows that were only two talk page comments in the past TWO MONTHS, and none of them had anything to do with the subject matter.

Summary: this is absolutely ridiculous. I perform an uncontroversial action, not even requiring the use of any admin tools, and I'm brutally attacked by this editor, throwing misquotes of policy at me, and trying to misrepresent my actions. This is absolutely absurd. I've warned Flask for his incivility, threats, and ownership violations. This is the last straw. Outside observers need to clearly inform Flask of his errors, and correct his misperceptions of policy, or I will do so by any preventative measures necessary to continue to keep the editing on the article constructive and civil. ⇒ SWATJester 02:16, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

• Agree, this is a crock. Archive it out or mark it as done with. Guy (Help!) 13:33, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

• SWATJester is in the right here. Any unsourced information can be deleted at will. Unless there are reliable sources, it doesn't get in the article. Period. The fact that Flask made inappropriate threats makes it harder than usual to assume good faith in this matter. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 16:07, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

JoshuaZ and BLP and Daniel Brandt

JoshuaZ did this. Good judgement or bad judgement? WAS 4.250 01:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Bad judgement, besides which he reverted my comments and I am not banned, and DB is only banned at his own request. This violates the spirit of BLP amongst other things and I have reverted because my comments were removed and I absolutely have the right to comment on the BLP talk page, SqueakBox 01:17, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Brandt was commenting in a policy situation and engaging in more of his standard threats. This was not an attempt by Brandt to fix specific issues on his page, and so the "spirit" of BLP does not support him in this instance. As I have already commented to SqueakBox, it doesn't make sense to only remove every other comment in his discussion. JoshuaZ 02:28, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

On a technical point, I don't see any legal threat from Brandt in that thread. He mentions a schedule for appealing to the Wikimedia Foundation board of directors. Durova 05:01, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Brandt is indefinitely banned. If he wants to have something done, he can email the foundation. He knows who to contact.--MONGO 07:38, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

We can also ignore WP:BAN when the net benefit of Brandt being able to post is good for the encyclopedia; his latest posts certainly seem helpful and not hurtful. --Iamunknown 08:00, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Brandt knows the email address for OTRS, Jimbo and most of the arbcom, he also knows that he is absolutely banned from posting to Misplaced Pages AT ALL, including the specific case of his article's talk page. Why would we continue to allow him to ignore that? He has means to get factual inaccuracies fixed, and his past behaviour is such that simply engaging with him presents a real riski to the privacy of editors, a risk to which people should not be subjected. Guy (Help!) 13:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

If ignoring WP:BAN would improve Misplaced Pages I would agree, but in this case I think BAN is protecting Misplaced Pages from disruption. _InBC 13:39, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

True. --Iamunknown 13:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Kd lvr (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (combined User:TREYWiki and SVRTVDude requests)

User:Kd lvr is a nuisance and vandal. He continues to troll on mine and User:Orangemonster2k1‎'s talk pages, after we have apologized for the sock accusations. User:Blueboy96‎ brought up meatpuppet accusations, that are obviously true. His friend, User:Kdkatpir2, was indefinatly blocked for personal attacks and socking. Kd kat has violated the 3RR on the KDKA page, and his own user page, removing {{meatpuppet}} tags and trolling. He has created KDKA anchor pages, text copied off the KDKA website, and violates WP:OWN, assuming ownership of articles. He is severely disrupting the project, we could all be making helpful edits instead of dealing with him. He has proven extremely hard to deal with, his page is loaded with warnings, and I think he needs to be indefinatly blocked. We have reported him to WP:AVI but they have directed us here. --TREYWiki 02:02, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

User:Kd lvr continues to add inaccurate and unconfirmed information to pages after last warn, continues to WikiOWN several articles on Wiki, including KDKA-TV (which has had inaccurate, unconfirmed and unneeded information added to it repeatedly). User is also a suspected meatpuppet of User:Kdkatpir2 (who has been blocked indefinitely for being a sockpuppeteer and abusing several accounts) and has been previously blocked for this behaviour in the past couple days. User continues to add inaccurate information as of this writing. - SVRTVDude 02:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Kd lvr was blocked for personal attacks on me, which he has continued after that block expired. --TREYWiki 02:12, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

It looks to me like you two have been stalking and harassing him, and scored the inevitable flame after endless flamebaiting. I see no reason to think the utterly lame content dispute you are engaged in at KDKA-TV has anything to do with vandalism or trolling, or that Kd lvr is any more of a meatpuppet than you two. I'm blocking all three and deleting this offensive attack subpage: User talk:TREYWiki/KD KLAN. Screaming "WE KNOW YOU ARE A SOCKPUPPETEER!" with no basis and "WHOOHOOO!!!" when someone gets blocked for 3RR is very immature and doesn't belong here. You've been assuming bad faith from the beginning and it needs to stop if this is going to be resolved. Dmcdevit·t 02:21, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

• Support Dmcdevit's blocks 100%. ⇒ SWATJester 02:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

• I like it, just like Solomon, cut them all in half. _InBC 13:41, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Userpage of User:Davenbelle

• Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration#Request for additional remedy in Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Moby Dick

I was wondering if the page could be undeleted since arbitrators will be reviewing evidence from the past arbitration case which includes Davenbelle's userpage. -- Cat 02:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

The arbitrators are admins, and therefore can view deleted edits and pages unless such edits/pages have been oversighted. —physicq (c) 02:34, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

True I suppose... -- Cat 02:41, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Repeated inappropriate edits to a biography of a living person article

FactsFirst (talk · contribs) is a single-use account dedicated to adding pejorative material to Kevin Potvin. The article was fully protected for a while because of a political controversy that drew some unsavory editors to the page. I requested that it be only semi-protected and since then only two editors have been making inappropriate additions, and now it’s down to one. I suggest that FactsFirst be blocked for the following reasons:

• User has refused to discuss contentious edits on the article’s talk page, instead choosing to engage in a POV edit war with me and the occasional snide comment on my talk page.
• User has been amply warned on their talk page that their edits are inappropriate, with reference to relevant policies and guidelines, including a final warning.
• FactsFirst’s edits are sourced with newspaper editorials smearing the subject, but only serve as character assassination and don’t speak to the subject’s notability. Some of the individual edits just look like bad encyclopedia writing, but taken collectively constitute a systematic campaign in contravention of WP:BLP, WP:NPOV, and possibly WP:DICK. Diffs are as follows: , , , , , and .

The controversy in the real world has run its course and it appears only one diehard is keeping up the campaign on Misplaced Pages, so it seems that a block is in order rather than full protection of the article. If FactsFirst is blocked and similar inappropriate edits continue, I will request a check-user because the style of another editor, Naddude (talk · contribs), suggests a bit of sockpuppetry has occurred. Thank you. bobanny 21:54, 2 May 2007 (UTC)(moved from Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard. bobanny 02:56, 3 May 2007 (UTC))

COFS indef blocked

Given the outcome of Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/COFS, I have indefinitely blocked COFS (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and CSI LA (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), because the CSI LA account was used for block evasion during COFS's past blocks. This does not mean that the blocks cannot ever be lifted, or even that the blocks should not be reduced immediately. I have no opinion about the appropriate block lengths. But I felt this was the necessary first step while discussion takes place about what exactly should happen in the long run. ··coelacan 21:42, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm... both of those accounts were involved in the minor shitstorm over my week-long block of Misou (talk · contribs). AGF or RFCU, I'm so conflicted... EVula // talk // ☯ // 23:16, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I kinda doubt Misou is the same person, but who knows. CSI LA stands for Church of Scientology International, Los Angeles. 75.62.7.22 04:38, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I believe there may be several people sharing a common ip at Church of Scientology International, Los Angeles, Misou is also one of them. I would like to reduce the block to a week and then have this matter follow the dispute resolution process. I have looked at the edits of CSI LA, while aggressive and supportive of the Scientology point of view, they mostly consist of removal of links to original research by the opposition. Fred Bauder 01:13, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Could you please be more specific about the WP:OR the editor(s) were removing? Anynobody 04:11, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Quentin_Hubbard&diff=prev&oldid=121754554
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=L._Ron_Hubbard&diff=prev&oldid=121753145
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Commodore%27s_Messenger_Organization&diff=prev&oldid=1217410
• Fred Bauder 04:18, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Fred Bauder, I wanted to make sure it wasn't one of mine. (P.S. the third link goes to some page from 2003). Anynobody 04:23, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

The first one isn't original research as per WP:OR, it was based on quotes of other people. The second one was based on an analysis of "48 hours". The third one don't work properly , it goes to a weird page not based on the history of the article. If you mean this edit, , it is a link to a biography. --Tilman 05:11, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Characterizing CSI LA's edits as merely "aggressive and supportive of the Scientology point of view" drastically underplays the disruption of this editor. At L. Ron Hubbard, CSI LA stated() that he had looked up certain quotes from Hubbard's The Fundamentals of Thought cited in the article, and found those quotes differed significantly between his book and the article. He characterized the quotes, as presented in the article, as "falsified" for "the purpose of slandering Hubbard". Strong words, but nothing outside the boundaries of appropriate debate, IMHO, even if he added speculation on the "motivation behind this and motivation of those keeping it in there". I checked the quotes in question against my own copy of Fundamentals and found that in that edition, the quotes existed in almost exactly the form presented in the article, differing as far as I could see only in punctuation. I replied to CSI LA,() explaining that while he might have in good faith believed that he had irrefutably proved "falsification", I could personally verify that the quotes he asserted "do not even exist" did in fact exist in official editions of the book, and if he wished to verify it himself he had the full publication data of both editions cited. Obviously it was disappointing when his next comment on the matter() continued to call the quotes "a fake and slander attack on Hubbard" and assert "The real quotes are not containing such statements". Ignoring others is not civil. Judge for yourself whether my response() was mild enough given the circumstances. CSI LA's next comment() was what went completely beyond acceptable behavior. It was not only full of attacks upon my competence ("... to cover up that you have no full concept on the development of Scientology, its literature and founder.") and upon my motivations ("Maybe so you can complain along about hot air.", "You seem to be part of the "alternative" Scientology scene which uses altered materials.") but upon my integrity as an editor ("You know better than you say.", "What is still unexplained is why you want to smear L. Ron Hubbard with altered quotes.") By still calling them "altered quotes" he is alleging that when I say I checked the evidence and told him how he can even double-check that very same evidence if he chooses, that I am lying. If it is allowed to simply allege without just cause for suspicion that someone is lying when they say "Here are the reliable sources which say these things verbatim", then we might as well shut down Misplaced Pages right here; it cannot operate other than on the principle that when one editor of good standing says "yes, I have checked this source, and yes, it does support this claim," the burden of proof is then upon those who would dispute that. To say "nothing is sourced well enough to go into the article if I have to take someone else's word that the sources support it" is a form of solipsism, and it is equally deleterious. As I have frequently pointed out, politeness is not civility; CSI LA's language might meet certain minimum standards for acceptable debate but his monstrous allegations attack the entire concept of collaborative editing. -- Antaeus Feldspar 17:14, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

• The disturbing evidence brought forth from the Checkuser Case Confirmation brings up other issues as well. Isn't this also blatant violation of the Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest guideline??? At the very least, if the IPs are all coming from this certain locale, it belies that most likely there is some sort of funding going on to edit Misplaced Pages in a certain manner. How is this any different than the User:MyWikiBiz issue? Certainly this would go towards some serious considerations of many of the subsections of Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest, including but not limited to potentially: Financial, Legal antagonists, Self-promotion, Close relationships, Campaigning, and Citing oneself... Also, at User_talk:Coelacan#COFS_and_CSI_LA, am I correct when I read that Misou (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) is also related to this series of IPs as well? How many of these individuals are either the same individual or organization, or are relate to the conflict of interests outlined above? If this is not allowed for the concept and user User:MyWikiBiz, why is it allowed in other situations? Smee 06:16, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

Thank you Smee for your words. Although I'd understand that corporations are allowed to work on the wikipedia entries of their products and services, I consider it deeply disturbing when several staff members would do so. Theoretically, scientology has the resources to simply set up 20 full time Sea Org staff members (payment: less than $100 a week) at that same IP. Hey, it could even set up 20 different IPs for them. --Tilman 16:08, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I really don't think the cofs would do this because it could always be reverted at a later date AND they have a "security" concern about staff getting information that might lead to them change their point of view on the cofs and leave.--Fahrenheit451 18:59, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Why current block makes sense

I've honestly tried to think of how this could be a mistake as opposed to dishonesty, but whenever I try to give the editor(s) in question the benefit of the doubt they demonstrate reasons why I shouldn't. For example this statement from COFS talking about how Wikipediatrix/Highfructosecornsyrop was able to stay:. (My reply:).

He'd get the benefit of the doubt except since he knows about Wikipediatrix/Highfructosecornsyrop he's either read up on it in the archives like I have or he was here under a different name while it was happening. Either way, he should know better based on the outcome of said example. Or how CSI LA harassed a sysop for blocking Misou:

1. CSI LA advocating unblock of Misou, calls neutral sysop anti-Scientologist for not unblocking
2. same as last diff but on WP:ANI.
3. CSI LA advances notion that Misou was "set up".

If it's one person, the block should stay. If it's several people the block seems just as appropriate because they appear to be working together in a manner not intended by the principles of this project. Also please note that even the points for unblocking raised by them are misrepresentations. CSI LA has said (in an e-mail postd on his talk page) that 1000 Scientologists are being affected. This can not be true, and instead makes it seem as though we are persecuting people rather than enforcing the rules (something the CoS has been observed doing in the past). Anynobody 08:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

The comparisons to my "highfructosecornsyrup" experiment aren't even in the same ballpark anyhow. My two accounts never had conversations with each other, as CSI LA and COFS did. My two accounts never backed each other up in edit wars- in fact, I had stopped editing as Wikipediatrix during that time. I didn't operate two accounts simultaneously. COFS/CSI LA, by contrast, made every effort to portray themselves as two different persons, talked to each other, and apparently used the identities to bolster one user's opinion with two user's voices. (and even if they are two different people, if they're editing from the same office on the same mission or as a WP:ROLE account, that might as well be one person, as far as I'm concerned.) wikipediatrix 18:43, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

That's what I explained to COFS, you were not trying to give the impression that you are more than one person whereas he was. The difference is as big as night and day, with what you did being day and their tactics being night. Anynobody 18:46, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I think that the sock-puppet matter alone is egregious enough to block this user, but the adjunct policy violations, such as repeated personal attacks and incivility, strengthen the rationale for the block.--Fahrenheit451 19:04, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Block reduced

User talk:Coelacan#COFS and CSI LA Anynobody 19:01, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Disruption of active content dispute by FeloniousMonk

FeloniousMonk moved my comments, and those of many others, in this edit, in a content dispute of which he is an active participant, in an effort to marganilize opposing viewpoints. ImprobabilityDrive 05:15, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

This active discussion is in regard to the very reason the article was protected. While I am an active participant (and target), I request that an objective administrator review the move, revert it if it was against wikipedia policy, and provide appropriate response to FeloniousMonk. Thanks, ImprobabilityDrive 05:20, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

It's not that uncommon to move a particular thread to a subpage, if it's off topic, clogging up the page, or causing disruption. No idea if that's the case here, but he didn't use any admin tools, so I don't see what his involvement in a content dispute has to do with it. In any case, it's not something that requires administrators' intervention. If others agree with his move, they'll support him at that talk page; if not, someone will probably move the comments back. Musical Linguist 05:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

It takes sophisticated knowledge to move the article back, and it is well known that FeloniousMonk is an admin. His edit summary's convey his authority. He indicated in his move that the purpose was to avoid complicating the case that I was a disruptive editor. He provides permission to other contributors to continue to enforce his move here. ImprobabilityDrive 05:38, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

ImprobabilityDrive has been deemed by the community at that article a classic disruptive editor. The section I moved to a subpage was a proposal already widely rejected by every established editor of the article several times over and reintroduced yet again. It was moved to allow for other discussions to take place that might actually have a change at gaining consensus.

ImprobabilityDrive's disruption has taken the form of edit warring at that article and at Sternberg peer review controversy, and have resulted in both being protected. He consistently rejects community input and calls for moderation while continuing to edit in pursuit of a certain point despite an opposing consensus from impartial editors and admins. Not to mention his campaign to drive away productive contributors through gaming the system at WP:AN/I and WP:DE. There's an ongoing discussion among the regular editors to that article (which I am not one) for a user conduct RFC on ImprobabilityDrive, for which there is near unanimous support. FeloniousMonk 05:49, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I encourage whatever objective admin that looks at this to dig in to the veracity of the assertions made by FeloniousMonk. For example, the only person now contributing to the discussion is FeloniousMonk, now that he has disrupted it . Previously, as can be seen here, other contributors were commenting, and we were making headway. ImprobabilityDrive 06:01, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

The discussion is free to continue on the subpage, here: Talk:Creation-evolution controversy/Sternberg dscussion I don't see how you can in all honesty call no one agreeing with you "making progress." Also, this section Talk:Creation-evolution_controversy#To_all_those_that_are_piling_on adds zero value, is further disruption, and really needs to be userfied.

In around six days, User:ImprobabilityDrive has posted 112 times to Talk:Creation-evolution controversy, making him the 10th largest contributor, compared to people who've been posting there for years. It's too much, and it's overwhelming the page. I've asked him to consider taking it off his watchlist for a couple of days to let things cool down. SlimVirgin 06:36, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

If only Slim would take her own advice on (e.g.) Pallywood. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.173.66.55 (talk) 19:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

<officer barbary> "Nothing to see here people, move along"</officer barbary> ⇒ SWATJester 06:57, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I have indef blocked ImprobabilityDrive as a sockpuppet of Jason Gastrich. It surprises me no one did it already: the account was obviously a sockpuppet, nearly all the edits touched on fundamentalist Christianity in some manner, and the attempts to whitewash Louisiana Baptist University are a dead giveaway. Durova 07:18, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I only had it at 50% probability, wasn't there a recent checkuser on Gastrich? Anywa, good call - that one is here to promote The Truth (TM) not what is verifiable. Guy (Help!) 13:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd say the community is much better off now. I recently began to realise he was likely a sock, but like Guy I was a bit surprised that he was Gastrich's sock. Zeus knows he certainly stirred up enough trouble. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149; 15:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

What really did it for me was the diff where he fluffed up a citation of the school's doctoral program. I mean, who else would both care about inflating the appearance of one particular program at an unaccredited bible college and know so much about how Misplaced Pages works? It's a slam dunk in my opinion, and if checkuser didn't catch this then all it means is he's getting a little clever on the technical end. That might be worth watching for future reference. Durova 15:15, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Multi-editor improper deletion (without another AFD) of main part of United States military aid to Israel

Some editors are trying to delete the weapon systems list from this article. It is the main part of this article. Here is the last revision of the intact article:

• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=United_States_military_aid_to_Israel&oldid=127900153

This article already survived a recent AFD, a recent incident report, and a recent DRV.

Discussion has already been tried and failed. Dispute resolution suggests protecting the page while further discussion continues. I am also asking other editors and admins who are reading this to come to the talk page. I am also asking those MANY editors and admins who commented on the AFD, DRV, and PREVIOUS incident report to also come to the talk page. I also am asking those who understand better the dispute resolution processes, and incident boards, to take the appropriate actions. I do not know all of them. I have used many of the dispute resolution processes in the past, but I have found that until some admins get involved, genuine discussion frequently does not occur on the talk pages dealing with Arab and/or Israeli articles. But the bottom line is that an attempt to delete the main part of the article is happening YET AGAIN. The weapon systems list is the reason this article can not be merged with other articles, and should not be merged. It is another roundabout deletion without having to go through AFD. I am requesting that the last intact revision be protected, so as not to allow this roundabout deletion to stand.

Here is a summary of what already has happened with this article:

United States military aid to Israel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). See: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/United States military aid to Israel. The original closing admin (Doc) wrote: "The result was KEEP - merging is of course an editorial decision to be worked out on the talk pages." Another admin deleted that closing improperly, and changed the closing admin comment to "The result was Delete - with a strong suggestion to merge." See: Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive235#User:Jayjg and Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/United States military aid to Israel. During the DRV, Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2007 April 26, the original closing admin (Doc) clarified his closing comment and changed it to, "The result was No Consensus = default KEEP - merging is of course an editorial decision to be worked out on the talk pages". The DRV closing admin wrote: "After examining the comments carefully (and ignoring the boldfaces here, which were often confused), there is a ~75% consensus in support of Doc's original closure. Relisting is at editorial option; merge discussions belong on the appropriate talk pages." There are overall articles called United States military aid and Israel-United States military relations. The list of U.S.-supplied weapons systems in the article in question here, United States military aid to Israel, is already too long to merge with those 2 articles. It is also too long to merge with Israel-United States relations#United States military and economic aid. WP:NPOV help is needed to maintain and to fill out this spinout article more. --Timeshifter 09:36, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

QUACK QUACK QUACK

I rather suspect that this was so loud they probably heard it in China. 69.105.173.150 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) is, I suspect, the latest visitation of Jacob Peters. Los Angeles IP, pro-Communist/Stalin trolling hitting Peters' usual articles. Might be a good idea to block for a couple hours so he won't use this IP again either today or tomorrow. Moreschi 09:38, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Disruptive editing with rage

I request that some admin stop User:Sarvagnya from going on a disruption spree. I don't want to take admin action as I'm a complainant myself. This person has been nitpicking in numerous Tamil language-related articles despite being warned several times and blocked a few times for disruption and sockpuppetry. He unilaterally removes cited content claiming the authors have an "investment" in writing those. At the same time, he adds things supported by older citations that have been subsequently rebutted. He often adds/deletes/modifies prose just adding an author's name as a citation. In short, he plays the citation game to suit him. His edit summaries and talk page comments are almost always provocative. One fine editor who has produced a bunch of FAs has gone into semi-retirement unable to tolerate the nitpicking by him and his gang. More users including me are stressed to the point of leaving. Attempts at reconciliation have not worked.

Most recently, his eyes fell on History of Tamil Nadu which is scheduled to be featured on May 5 on the main page. He started "defacing" the article with tags quickly reverting himself perhaps with the realisation that his intent would be too obvious. He took the next worst choice -- going on a rampage with anything that's linked from there. The latest is the article Tamil people, a featured article and also one which has undergone FA review recently. His tagging spree includes images that are already licensed under {{gfdl-self}}. I'm too tired to collect and summarise evidence in this case, but request someone to look into his history of disruption and take action. -- Sundar 09:46, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I told you guys to seek mediation, and I still think that's best for everyone. This seems to me to be a complex dispute and a two-way street. I nominated Tamil language for featured article review, and it was closed as a "keep", just as the article was being locked and having its neutrality disputed. This has quickly spiraled out of control, but I still would suggest something better than running to admins all the time during your disputes. Grandmasterka 09:54, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

As an aside, Sarvagnya seems to have been cleared of being a sockpuppeteer. Grandmasterka 09:56, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Have the same opinion about this as Grandmasterka... DR should be used for disputes, with ANI used when things spiral out of control, and admin intervention is necessary to sort things out. --Kzrulzuall 09:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Grandmasterka, I requested him to suggest a draft himself and he, having bought some time, started his disruptive edits with other related articles. Reg him being a sock, I just notice that the clerks asuumed good faith and revised the decision as meatpuppetry.

Kzrulzuall, I know that DR is generally a better choice. But, we've been through this earlier too. That time, I was a lot more patient, but still we lost or almost lost another editor. I am no longer willing to play this game of pacifying him. I'm going to go away rather than stressing myself with another DR with him. -- Sundar 10:15, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I could tag the article for OR. But then Mr. Sundar and his stooge Parthi will come and immediately revert it. If you throw in two inline citations in a 10000 word article or names of two books under ==Refs==, the article becomes 'sourced'! Right? Yeah right. Sarvagnya 10:15, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

"Assumed good faith and revised as meatuppetry"?!! - Thats misleading people here with malicious intent. Sarvagnya 10:17, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

The very accusations of sockpuppetry were infact in bad faith and I proved it. There was no sockpuppetry. There was no meatpuppetry. Nonsense! Sarvagnya 10:18, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

This person has been nitpicking in numerous Tamil language-related articles despite being warned several times and blocked a few times for disruption and sockpuppetry. - Evidence please. Sarvagnya 10:20, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

He unilaterally removes cited content claiming the authors have an "investment" in writing those. At the same time, he adds things supported by older citations that have been subsequently rebutted. He often adds/deletes/modifies prose just adding an author's name as a citation. In short, he plays the citation game to suit him. - Shameless and malicious misrepresentation of facts. Does not befit an admin. Not in the least. Sarvagnya 10:21, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Grandmasterka, I requested him to suggest a draft himself - You didnt suggest that we write drafts. I did. Sarvagnya 10:24, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Most recently, his eyes fell on History of Tamil Nadu which is scheduled to be featured on May 5 on the main page. He started "defacing" the article with tags quickly reverting himself perhaps with the realisation that his intent would be too obvious. - Bullshit! Sarvagnya 10:24, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

His tagging spree includes images that are already licensed under {{gfdl-self}}. - I perhaps tagged only one such image. And didnt resist once it got reverted. Sarvagnya 10:26, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Please revise your tone, Sarvagnya, as you are not acting very civil. If you have comments, please address them properly. Accusing users of having "Malicious intent" does not help. --Kzrulzuall 10:27, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Accusing established and regular editors of disruption and nitpicking just because you're having a content issue with them on some article doesnt help either nor is it very civil. Sarvagnya 10:31, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

And since when is tagging copyvio and asking for citations disruption?! Does this admin in question who openly told me that he cannot assume good faith with me even know what disruption is? Sarvagnya 10:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I'll tell you what I'd have done if I was editing with rage. I'd have moved Tamil language back into FAR. Whoever had heard of an article thats protected and with POV and disputed tags being closed as FAs. That too with no semblance of a voting exercise on the FAR page. Sarvagnya 10:33, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm too tired to collect and summarise evidence in this case... - I'm tired too. Or I could present several diffs.. even one of the admin in question biting a new user who just happened to be on the other side of the POV divide. Shameful indeed. I could also present a diff where the admin in question attributes malicious intent to me. And many more. Sarvagnya 10:37, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Sundar wouldn't be an admin if he doesn't know what "disruption" is. If someone is behaving uncivilly with you, it is not an excuse to behave uncivilly back. Please calm down before you start making more accusations to respected users editing in good faith.--Kzrulzuall 10:43, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Editing in "good faith"? Dont you see how he lies about my block record in a bid to sway opinion of some admin in the hope that some admin would block me? He says I've been blocked several times for disruption and sockpuppetry while one quick look at my block log will reveal that I have been blocked ONLY ONCE and that too for 'fighting' with another user who the concerned admins will testify was a rank bad troll. He and all his accomplices were subsequently blocked for using abusive sockpuppets against me or other users. I could go on.. every single word that Sundar has written is a lie. L-I-E. LIE. Sarvagnya 10:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

...unable to tolerate the nitpicking by him and his gang.... - me and my gang? would you elaborate please? Last I remember, I was waging a lone battle against a tag team of reverters on Tamil language and Talk:Tamil language. Sarvagnya 10:42, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Signing off for now. If any admin has any questions, I will answer each one of them. For now, suffice to say that all of Sundar's charges are baseless and nonsense. He is trying to use his admin weight to bully me into submission in the content issue he and his friends are having with me on Tamil language. Sarvagnya 11:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Since evidence is being asked, I will provide them.

Evidence of removing cited content:

He removes the following cited content unilaterally here.

"On the other hand a number of scholars believe that the influence of Tamil and Dravidian had a far greater influence, including grammar, syntax, poetics and meter on Sanskrit and other Indo-Aryan languages."

He then proceeds to remove following cited fact here.

"Unlike in Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh where early inscriptions were written in Sanskrit, the early inscriptions in Tamil nadu used Tamil exclusively."

This is not the first time where he removes cited facts from Tamil nadu related articles. Previous cited content removal with offending edit summaries are here, here, here, & here. It is particularly notable that in one edit summary he indulges in OR & attacks the Tamil epic's content as disco-dance (a slang in south India for cabaret ).

Possible defamation of eminent Tamil researcher & other Tamil organizations (sangams) here where he compares their work to 'squat'.

"...Hart's campaign and sundry Tamil sangams' 'campaigns' would have counted for squat minus Karunanidhi's arm twisting of the Congress govt.,.)..."

Then he indulges in personal attack on all other editors in the talk page of Tamil language article without proof here where he accuses other editors of trolling.

"If only you guys would have spent less time trolling on Halmidi and Rashtrakuta FAC and Kannada and Bharatanatya and Carnatic music, we could have had more time to thrash out several issues on this page."

I warned about this personal attack here.

Can he provide evidence for the claim that he was exonerated from meat-puppetry charges? The restrictions on him were removed on account of subsequent contributions by him & his confirmed meat puppet. Not that his confirmed case was changed to unconfirmed.

He accuses admin Sundar of bullying him (again without any proof). Please make a stop to all these. Thanks. Praveen 14:37, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Potential sock puppets' affecting opinion at deletion review

Please check the three users at the bottom of http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Wikipedia_talk:Deletion_review&oldid=125702519, User:TomSkillingJr., User:Chudzooka and User:Shoopshoop for sock puppetry. They posted within six minutes of one another, and each made the same mistake of arguing for deletion on a discussion page. Their user contributions don't extend further than discrediting Cory Williams. More puppets might be found at Talk:Cory Williams.

I ask this because the article Cory Williams is currently undergoing deletion review at Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Cory_Williams. Although no puppets have surfaced at the review yet, the user who initiated the review did so solely on the basis of a perceived controversy on Talk:Cory Williams at the behest of User:TomSkillingJr., whom I believe to be the puppet master. Even though the user who initiated the review states he finds Cory Williams notable, a manufactured controversy could end up compromising the review.Ichormosquito 10:34, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

User Stalking Other User with Constant Incivility and Per Attacks

User Eleemosynary has been following around user Getaway and reverted almost all edits and then personally attacking user Getaway. Examples of this can be found in these places: , , , , . I need assistance.--Getaway 13:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Dear Getaway/Keetowah: I'd be happy to post diffs for over 500 instances of personal attacks and disruptive edits coming from you, your various identities, and your sockpuppet/meatpuppets. I urge you, as Fred Bauder has, to take this to a dispute resolution so all information can come to light. : ) Eleemosynary 16:55, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

User:K1ng l0v3

The user mentionned above has been calling me "Persian wishfull thinker" in the past when I added a sourced statement in the Iranian Military Industry and this is unacceptable. It was related to an Iranian submarine Nahang 1, which exists but this person denies it, and keeps reverting my edits. So I don't know what to do and I don't want to make any personal attacks. SSZ 13:25, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

JASON NAZARIO

Can someone please delete this attack page asap and deal with the interference of the other school kids trying to keep it in existence. --Dweller 13:33, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Dealing with a POINT violation but concerned about 3RR

I've got a problem with a user who's disrupting the Anomalistics page by moving the pages infobox from the top right hand corner of a page to the the bottom right hand corner of the page, and by deleting pertinent information from the definition of the term described on the page even though it is backed up by references from the man who first coined it.

With the exception of moving the infobox to silly places the users edits aren't obvious vandalism (there's no bad language or anything) unless you're familiar with the topic, so I'm concerned that I will be slapped with a 3RR violation if I keep undoing it. An admin's assistance would be most welcome here.

perfectblue 14:27, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Try the talk page to figure out why they're doing it? Content disputes like this aren't vandalism. Luigi30 (Taλk) 14:34, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Gerry Adams

Can an unbiased administrator please look at this article as soon as possible please? An administrator with a Sinn Féin image on their userpage has taken exception to content that is fully sourced from reliable sources, claiming WP:BLP. Practically every single book ever written on the Troubles or the IRA names Adams as an IRA member in the 1970s, and I've recently cited four of them in the article along with other sources which were there already. Betacommand has then jumped in threatening to block anyone who adds the material back without proper sourcing and multiple reliable sources, totally ignoring the fact it is sourced exactly like that. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 14:42, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

The above statement regarding the use of "reliable sources" is patently false. I've recently learned that Sean O'Callaghan is being used as a Misplaced Pages reference to make spurious claims about Irish politicians being involved in criminal activities. Sean O'Callaghan is a former IRA member who became an informant for the Garda (Irish police). He has an inherent and evident bias against the fellows who he turned against and cannot be considered a reliable source. I've tried to explain this numerous times that the section in question does not comply to WP:BLP. gaillimh 14:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

That's disputable, but the section doesn't even say that he was an IRA member, it just says that various people have stated that he was. The very first sentence in the section was that he denied it. -Amarkov moo! 14:49, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

The simple answer (if you object to O'Callaghan) would be to remove the O'Callaghan part, and leave all the other sources in. Objecting to O'Callaghan does not give you carte blanche to remove every other source. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 14:52, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Sure, but as I've mentioned to you in the past, Adams has directly refuted and dismissed Ed Moloney's claims. In addition, you sourced Michael McDowell, the PD leader. I wouldn't consider that at all reliable either. Using Misplaced Pages to advance your goals of attempting to associate a politician with a criminal organisation is inappropriate. In addition, there's not been any proof of this, and again, Adams has denied all of these claims. You've been edit warring with me on numerous articles about this particular point, and while I've attempted to reach a compromise with you on List of IRA Chiefs of Staff, you keep insisting on interjecting your POV gaillimh 14:57, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

No, I insist on maintaining a neutral point of view, as do several other editors who've tried to add the Adams content back. It's quite ironic that by one group of editors I get accused of having a pro-republican bias, now I'm being accused of having an anti-republican bias. The presence of a SF logo on your userpage clearly shows your POV on this. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 15:00, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

My having a SF logo on my userpage equates to a POV that I eschew the IRA? Haha, now I've heard it all. This conversation might be a bit confusing to those outside of Ireland, and perhaps Britain, but SF has long since maintained direct ties to the IRA, so I'm not sure how removing biased information about an SF member incorrectly being labeled an IRA member equates to a POV (as I realise that I've mentioned they've direct ties, it should be noted that the IRA is completely decommissioned now, off of the US list of terrorist organisations, and plenty of SF members have never been a part of the IRA, Adams included). gaillimh 15:11, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Whether you consider McDowell or O'Callaghan a reliable source is irrelevant. If they made these claims and the claim has been reported on in a reliable source then there is no issue including it in an article here. In these cases all the information is referenced from reliable sources. On the Adams article, as ONiH states multiple sources have been given. Stu 15:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

You're correct, it doesn't matter if I consider them to be reliable. Apologies for the confusion. I don't consider them reliable based on Misplaced Pages's policy regarding reliable sources. gaillimh 15:12, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

In fact I specifically added four additional sources before adding it back the first time. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 15:07, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Gaillimh, you misunderstand. McDowell is an Irish politician and lawyer, O'Callaghan is a former IRA member. So their opinions or claims are relevant. Any of our own opinions on them are irrelevant. We might think they are wrong, but that's irrelevant. They made these claims and they were reported on in reliable, independant sources which are used in the articles. Stu 15:28, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Without the alleged IRA membership, the article fails WP:NPOV. The significant view (among journalists, authors, politicians etc) is that Adams is a former member of the IRA, that Adams denies it does not affect this. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 15:30, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree that there is significant opinion that Adams has been an IRA member in the past. In an attempt at a compromise, I suggest that we find reliable sources to present both claims, while obviously giving precedence to Adam's own refutations and the lack of any hard evidence to the contrary. Sean O'Callaghan and Malcolm McDowell clearly fail WP:RS. I am still a bit unsold that this compromise will adhere to WP:BLP, so I would like another administrator or someone well-versed in this policy to take a look at it gaillimh 15:39, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore, I recommend this article stay protected until such a compromise is worked out gaillimh 15:40, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

We already have all the sources we need. There's plenty of sources already in the article saying Adams was an IRA member, but Adams denies it. That's there already, and I honestly don't see what more needs to be said. There is no WP:BLP violation, the page should not have been protected in the first place. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 15:46, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. Betacommand was correct and judicious in protecting the page, given the stated WP:BLP concerns above. Again, Sean O'Callaghan and Michael McDowell are not reliable sources. gaillimh 15:49, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

So that would be why Betacommand describes the sources as "anti-adams POV/slander sites"? Any administrator is welcome to check the sources being used, and they will clearly see they are nothing of the sort. This is just another example of poor judgement by Betacommand. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 15:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Please dont quote me unless you get it right because that is also making my statement false, I also cited BLP and RS for removal so please shut up with trying to smear the admin who took the action and get to the meat of the issue. Misplaced Pages is not here to spread speculation, have a reliable 3rd party source the data. IE a fox news, the guardian or some other non-biased reliable third party confirm it and there will be no problems. but using confirmed POV sources that lean toward what you are trying to state is not a good Idea get a third party to source it. Betacommand 16:34, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm assuming you missed the four books by respected authors, some of which have won awards for their reporting on Northern Ireland? One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 16:38, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Is there a particular reason this conversation is being held here instead of the article's Talk page? --ElKevbo 15:34, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Again, Betacommand was quite correct in protecting the page, and it's always best to err on the side of caution when dealing with BLP concerms. The anti-Adams POV evidently refers to Sean O'Callaghan and the slander-sites is probably a bit of confusion with regards to the McDowell silliness in The Guardian. As a related aside, I can't see how one would ever think Sean O'Callaghan could possibly be appropriate for citing in an encyclopedia (other than, perhaps, in his own article when sourcing biographical information) gaillimh 16:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

User:Purgatory Fubar

Please examine the history of User talk:Purgatory Fubar. I am a long time anon editor seeimingly being "harassed" by the above user (User:Purgatory Fubar). I attempted to engage in conversation, specifically about WP:RED policy (see which was reverted) but find my edits constantly reverted and marked as "vandalism", on his talk page, without even a token attempt to engage further.

This has progressed onto my user talk page (see the history, I have removed what I consider to be "bad faith" templates placed on the page by the above user), and now onto any other articles I have ever edited - such as Halloween (film) ( claimed to be "reverting vandalism" but in fact nothing of the sort).

here is the user attempting to "block" me as a vandal:

here is the user again removing warnings claiming it is "unwarranted":

here is the user attempting to engage another user (in barely grammatical language) in the war: - claiming "trollery"

here is the user reverting yet another page without any expln other than I was the last editor:

another one: removing notability tag

removal of all red links from Hong Kong action cinema:

removal of valid "do not claim vandalism when it is not vandalism" warnings from userpage: and (using vandalism tools to revert the messages without any expln.)

I note the user claims to "hate anonymous editors" which may be an underlying cause of his issue, or perhaps he is unhappy with me that some of his college clubs were marked as non-notable as they failed to assert the importance of their subject. I would have preferred his anger to spill out as discussion rather than using "vandalism" warnings and reversions where they do not apply. I hope somebody can have a word... 86.31.156.253 15:50, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

According to your contribs, you just started editing today. And your edits are somewhat to be desired. See 86.31.156.253 Talk for more insite. Purgatory Fubar or Snafu 15:55, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Some of 86.31.156.253's edits do leave a bit to be desired, but many are constructive and the ones that are not are simply because they don't follow the style guidelines. As you point out, this user has only begun editing today and so cannot be expected to know all of the style guidelines. I don't see anything (point it out if I'm wrong) that indicates vandalism. Please remember not to bite the newcomers. --Selket 16:21, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Right then, so as far as I can see, both of you are attempting to make good faith edits, but reverting each other as vandalism. Purgatory Fubar, I'm a little disapointed in you reporting the IP to WP:AIV in an attempt to get them blocked, I would also suggest you let the red links stand, they allow users to see what articles they can create. Both of you I suggest take a short break from the computer, and come back with a clearer head. Ryan Postlethwaite 16:21, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Three points: 86.31.156.253 posted a comment which he signed as being from me. I was the user that removed the speedy delete from Fightin' Texas Aggie Band that the IP editor placed. As far as I can tell from here, the IP editor was reported to WP:AIV by User:Savant13 (). -- Upholder 17:27, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

see ryan postlethwaite removing false AIV notice by purgatory fubar and| aeropagitica removing incorrectly restored false AIV notice. User:Purgatory Fubar using AIV as a tool to win edit-wars is a strict no-no. Be very careful from now on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.31.144.47 (talk • contribs)

Any comment on why you signed a message left on Purgatory Fubar's talk page as if you were Upholder? Many of your other edits can be easily excused by assuming good faith, but that one is troubling. --OnoremDil 18:12, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

didnt know i did... but checking my history, it seems when i copy&pasted someone else's template i copy&pasted their username accidentally as well! oops ;)

i should also mention Upholder became very upset when i *dared* to put a notability tag on his apparently non-notable band's page, claiming the addition of the tag to be "bad faith" and "vandalism" () and angrily started issuing me vandalism warnings as a result (claiming vandalism) (again claiming vandalism), - several more vandalism warnings. is this user simply unware of what constitutes vandalism, or is it a deliberate bad faith attack by a user angered about the question of notability of their favorite band?

Impersonating User:Upholder time left on my talk page 15:53 but signed it 15:44, not very smart and know editing under another IP? Purgatory Fubar or Snafu 19:10, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Personal attack

User Biophys who is involved in editing Operation Sarindar article, made the following statement: "I believe that recent edits of this article represent a clear vandalism". As I am (User:Vlad fedorov) the only one user who edited the article recently, I regard it as a personal attack on me. The issue between me and Biophys is whether statements of Senior Defense Department officials should be mentioned in introductory paragraph. I have included mentioning of these statements, because they are also contained in the main body of the article.

User Biophys, repeatedly deleted this text supported by reliable sources without discussions. He was reported on 3RR board here.

I also would like to pay attention of the admins, that Biophys continues his abuse of me by calling me vandal. Please, see here for previous instances http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive229#Multiple_instances_of_Biophys_calling_me_vandal.2C_wikistalker_and_so_on. Vlad fedorov 15:57, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

He continues to make very abusive comments on me diff, despite of my sincere attempts to find a compromise and peace with him diff, diff. Vlad fedorov 16:16, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Reply. Yes, you can take a look at the link provided by Vlad Fedorov: . I am not going to comment here any more, since you are very busy.Biophys 16:37, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Notice of possible vandalism by User:JzG

This user removed all content from the Larry Gluck article. Here is this user's explanation --Fahrenheit451 18:43, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

That's not vandalism, that's a content editing decision based on the Biographies of living persons policy. Please feel free to follow his instructions for a sourced rewrite, if you feel you can create such a thing. FCYTravis 18:55, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify Larry Gluck was a redirect to Lawrence Jerrold Gluck, which JzG deleted per an OTRS ticket (and I just deleted Larry Gluck as a dead redirect). Looking at the deleted history I'm going to have to agree with JzG's deletion; this article was in no way adequately sourced in a way to meet WP:BLP.--Isotope23 19:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

That was an article that I and another editor started working on. It is too bad it was summarily removed.--Fahrenheit451 19:18, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

1. Sjoberg, Andrée F. The impact of the Dravidian on Indo-Aryan: an overview. In Edgar C. Polomé and Werner Winter (eds)., Reconstructing Languages and Cultures, pp. 507-529. (Trends in Linguistics, Studies and Monographs 58) Berlin and New York:Mouton de Gruyter
2. Hart (1975), p.206-208, 278-280.
3. Caldwell, Robert (1875). A comparative grammar of the Dravidian or South-Indian family of languages. Trübner & co. p. 88. In Karnataka and Teligana, every inscription of an early date and majority even of modern day inscriptions are written in Sanskrit...In the Tamil country, on the contrary, all the inscriptions belonging to an early period are written in Tamil