| Revision as of 19:32, 22 May 2007 editAlanyst (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers2,561 edits →Category:Massacres by Mormons← Previous edit | Revision as of 19:44, 22 May 2007 edit undoJeffrey Vernon Merkey (talk | contribs)3,043 edits →Category:Massacres by MormonsNext edit → | ||
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| ::::Fine, but be mindful of the POV concerns that others have expressed here too. You may need to overcome those objections before you re-create the category, or else it will most likely be speedily deleted. ] <sup>/]/</sup> 19:32, 22 May 2007 (UTC) | ::::Fine, but be mindful of the POV concerns that others have expressed here too. You may need to overcome those objections before you re-create the category, or else it will most likely be speedily deleted. ] <sup>/]/</sup> 19:32, 22 May 2007 (UTC) | ||
| :::::I doubt that very much. There do not appear to be legitmate POV concerns related to this label, only image issues and marketing issues with the Mormon Church being classified as a group who committs massacres, and meat puppet votes from Mormon Church members. Do you deny the Mountain Meadows Event was not a Massacre? I think it clearly was, and it was committed by mormons. Now where is the POV there? Stop trying to blame it on Native Americans. ] 19:44, 22 May 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete'''. There don't seem to be categories for massacres by Muslims, Jews, Christians, or any other religion that I know of... why have one for Mormons (with only one entry)? ] 04:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC) | *'''Delete'''. There don't seem to be categories for massacres by Muslims, Jews, Christians, or any other religion that I know of... why have one for Mormons (with only one entry)? ] 04:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC) | ||
Revision as of 19:44, 22 May 2007
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May 22
NEW NOMINATIONS
Category:Users names that are Vancyon
Nonsense. Corvus cornix 19:08, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Speedy delete as nonsense, though this technically should be on WP:UCFD. --tjstrf talk 19:18, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Elected Hereditary Peers in UK House of Lords
- Propose renaming Category:Elected Hereditary Peers in UK House of Lords to Category:Hereditary Peers elected under the House of Lords Act
- Nominator's Rationale: Rename, present category title is ambiguous - could potentially refer to old Representative Peers (already have own cats), and UK would need unabbreviating. New Progressive 17:25, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Weapons and items from The Legend of Zelda series
- Merge. Now that weapons and items have been consolidated into Recurring weapons and items from The Legend of Zelda series, this category is not useful. Pagrashtak 16:40, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:LGBT sportspeople
For the same reasons presented on Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender sportspeople. To summarize, this is a non-notable intersection as there is no relationship between how a person handglides and who they have sex with. Though homosexuality or transgenderness may be taboo in sports, this is not a strong enough reason to maintain it. In addition, WP:BLP problems could erupt with a severe lack of sourcing. The only foreseeable reason for keeping is if someone was discriminated against strongly in there respective sport because they were LGBT. This applies to at most a handful of people and lists and categories for them would be overkill. Delete subcategories. Bulldog123 16:35, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Strongest possible keep - Given the low numbers of openly LGBT sportspeople and given the attention that it garners when a pro athlete comes out even years after his/her career is over and given the attitude prevalent in every level of sports competition, given the books written on the topic (including Jocks and Jocks 2 by Dan Woog and the biographies of such athletes as David Kopay, Greg Louganis, Billy Bean and others which discuss the impact of being LGBT in a sports environment) and given the existence of international sports festivals for LGBT athletes, the notability of this intersection is unquestionable. I have no objection to upmerging the subcats but the parent cat must be kept. Otto4711 18:03, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Secularism
- Delete both, not every list should become a category. Contents should be maintained as lists in Secular state. -- Prove It 16:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Delete true. Bulldog123 16:36, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Delete per nom (if kept at least rename to Secular states). Tim! 17:03, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Live-action/animated films
Delete,With the advent of CGI there are very few feature films that don't have some form of animation in them. The category has become too generic (I see no connection between Spider-Man and Bedknobs and Broomsticks)-- JediLofty 15:41, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Delete as similar to the previously deleted category for live-action films with animated sequences, although this category pre-dates that one. Otto4711 16:01, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Non-ruling Austrian royalty
- Merge, The categories for Austrian royalty were arranged very differently from all other countries, and I am in half way through rectifying this. I have created category:Austrian royalty as the hold-all category. No other country that I can see has a separate category for non-ruling royalty, and it is not needed, as the rulers are in category:Rulers of Austria, and the other subcategories will never number more than a handful. I am in the process of moving everyone to the relevant precise category for Archdukes, Archduchesses etc, which can be fitted into the overall categories by type of royalty. Alex Middleton 14:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Enderverse characters
Per Misplaced Pages:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_May_11#Category:Enderverse, which converted the neologism "Enderverse" to "Ender's Game series".--Mike Selinker 12:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Rename per nom. Tim! 17:01, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Applications which use Growl
- Propose renaming Category:Applications which use Growl to Category:Software using Growl
- Nominator's Rationale: Rename, The current name isn't the best English, the newly proposed name covers all forms of software.. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 10:24, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Xenu
This category doesn't seem warranted to me. Anything in it would nicely and adequately fit into already existing Scientology hierarchy categories. meco 10:21, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Keep - Wow. That was fast. This category was nominated for deletion a mere 26 minutes after it was created. It helps to categorize articles related to the Xenu mythology story, and is relevant and already contains interesting highly related articles. Smee 10:24, 22 May 2007 (UTC).
- Keep. I can see that some readers would find this useful. Axl 11:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Keep The overall Scientology category needs subdivision, and indeed most of the articles are already in various subcategories. Alex Middleton 14:28, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Rosicrucian Enlightenment
Delete -The title is taken from a book by Frances Yates concerning the emergence of Rosicrucianism in the 17th century, but it is clear from the talk page that the editor wishes to list a large number of writers as part of "secret" organizations dating back to the 14th century. The subject is inherently POV an liable to create edit wars. Paul B 09:23, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Comment: I was not expecting any other action from such a materialistic mind, as readers may find from my previous words at the Category's talk page. What I could say to you is already well expressed in Prof. Neal Grossman's article (IONS, 2002):
« My colleague believed in materialism not as a scientific hypothesis that, qua scientific hypothesis, might be false, but rather as dogma and ideology that "must" be true, evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. For him, materialism is the fundamental paradigm in terms of which everything else is explained, but which is not itself open to doubt. I shall coin the term "fundamaterialist" to refer to those who believe that materialism is a necessary truth, not amenable to empirical evidence. I call it fundamaterialism to make explicit comparison with fundamentalism in religion. Fundamentalism connotes an attitude of certainty towards one's core belief. Just as the fundamentalist Christian is absolutely certain that the world was created in the manner described by The Bible (fossil evidence notwithstanding), so also the fundamaterialist is absolutely certain that there exists nothing that is not made up of matter or physical energy (NDE and other evidence notwithstanding). In fact, and this is the crucial point, their respective beliefs have nothing to do with evidence. As my fundamaterialist colleague put it, "There can't be evidence for something that's false." -- With respect to (a), materialism held as an empirical hypothesis about the world, the evidence against it is overwhelming. With respect to (b), materialism held as an ideology, evidence against it is logically impossible. »
- Anything more i could here state in defense of the category nominated to supression by you would be in vain, as the majority of our readers and fellow editors seem to be still too immersed sleeping the illusions, created by materialism dogma that you are so keen to adhere to, in order to make a clear defense stand in the issue brought into here (am i wrong?). Regards. --Lusitanian 10:41, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Comment: I think this editor's response speaks for itself. Paul B 11:19, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Delete Lusitanian's reply makes it clear that the concept of a "Rosicrucian Enlightenment" has been developed by one author, and it does not appear to be more widely accepted. It might be useful to have an article discussing the concept, but it is not appropriate to use the category system to classify articles according to a analysis which appears to be supported by one lone author. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:33, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Flowers of Mexico
Undefined and unnecessary offspring of Category:flowers. Flowering plants that grow in Mexico should be in Category:Flora of Mexico, delete. Peta 06:17, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Merge to Category:Flora of Mexico for consistency with other Flora of X categories. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:56, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Merge per above. - Zeibura S. Kathau 16:22, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Arcade games by year
Merge to the corresponding year subcategories of Category:20th century video games and Category:21st century video games. These categories overcategorize video games by one particular platform (arcade). For any video game article in both arcade and video game year categories, use the earliest year. This way, there'll only be one year category at the bottom of every video game article, and then subsequent categories for the various platforms it has appeared on.
If consensus is to keep, Category:Arcade games by year should be reinstated, and it should be considered whether Category:DOS games by year, Category:Super NES games by year, etc will also exist.
Note about the history of these categories: The parent category had a CfD on March 8 and the result was merge. What happened was that got deleted, and all the subcategories got moved over to Category:Video games by year. However, this was not the intention of the nomination. From the nomination statement and an archived discussion at WikiProject Video games, the argument was for every subcategory to be merged then deleted. However, the nom was technically incomplete - none of the subcategories in question was actually tagged, though SeizureDog did say that he wanted help in tagging the few dozen of them. Recently, there has also been a somewhat-related discussion on year categories at WT:VG. –Pomte 05:41, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been added to the list of video game deletions. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 10:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Merge all per nom, as a piece of overlooked housekeeping after the previous CfD. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:14, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Merge all per nom Good catch. Dugwiki 16:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Tim! 16:59, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Fictional coffeeshops
- Propose renaming Category:Fictional coffeeshops to Category:Fictional coffee shops
- Nominator's Rationale: Rename, see the coffee shop renaming discussion. This should be renamed accordingly.Peta 05:06, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Rename, I have always seen coffee shops as two seperate words, never as one. - Zeibura S. Kathau 16:23, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Coffeeshops
- Propose renaming Category:Coffeeshops to Category:Coffee shops
- Nominator's Rationale: Rename, the wikipedia article is at coffee shop. I think the creator intended for this category to include only coffee chains (not coffeehouse), so something else may be more appropriate to accurately reflect the contents of the category Peta 05:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Rename to Category:Coffee houses. I see that coffee shop is a disambiguation page, not an article, but coffeehouse seems like an usual term. However, it's probably better than the clearly ambiguous coffee shop. -BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:00, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Soy products
Merge into Category:Soy and delete. The two categories overlap, products seems the less useful of the two. Category:Coffee doesn't have a subcat for things made with coffee. Peta 05:00, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Natural disasters in 1138
Delete, Natural disasters in 1138 doesn't need a category of its own. JeffyP 04:21, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Delete - Awesome, a category of one. Probably goes without saying that the "no room for expansion/growth" guidelines applies here. Tarc 12:51, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Rename to Category:12th century natural disasters. Categorising disasters by time period is a good idea, but in view of the lack of articles so far, by-century-categorisation would be better. (While we're at it, the parent category ] would be better sub-divided by century). --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:54, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Keep This is one of nearly 200 by-year categories, some of which contain dozens of articles, so the inference that this system hasn't begun to be implemented on a significant scale yet is incorrect. Alex Middleton 14:30, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Keep, but should consider subdividing parent by decade and century There doesn't appear to be anything wrong off-hand with the intended scheme of Category:Disasters by year to divide disasters by year. Therefore keep this category as part of that scheme. However, that being said, I would recommend that Category:Disasters by year be subdivided into "Disasters by decade" and "Disasters by century" in a similar fashion to other events-by-year such as Category:Births by year and Category:Books by year. That would make the scheme more consistent with similar categories. Dugwiki 16:09, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Comment: I wonder if there is some cut-off point before which natural disasters should be categorised by a larger time period, i.e. decades or centuries. I initiated a by-year breakdown of earthquakes for years 2001 to 2007 in Category:Earthquakes in the 21st century, but deliberately left 20th century and prior categories alone because of the numbers of articles involved. Tim! 16:56, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Massacres by Mormons
Delete - Overcategorization (non-notable intersections by ethnicity, religion, or sexual preference; narrow intersection; small with no potential for growth). The topic "massacres by Mormons" applies (so far as I know) only to a single event (the Mountain Meadows massacre), and only that article belongs to the category. There might also be WP:POINT and WP:NPOV issues with the category (see the creator's recent contributions), but I'll leave that for others to decide for themselves. alanyst 03:57, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Keep - There were several massacres commited by mormons in Utah, including a massacre of paiute men and children near Santaguin, Utah. Please note nominated for deletion by Mormon church member. Jeffrey Vernon Merkey 04:18, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not trying to push a POV here, despite the insinuation based on my religious membership. I believe the category deserves deletion on its merits, as I have stated above. If enough historical events qualify (according to reliable sources) as massacres by Mormons, and if WP has articles on those (again, reliably sourced), then I will gladly withdraw this nomination. At this point it's not a useful category, and suggests a POV due to its lack of notability. alanyst 04:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- I am researching the other massacres committed by mormons and will soon post these stories. If this category is deleted I will simply recreate it when I add the other stories. Thanks. Jeffrey Vernon Merkey 19:29, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Fine, but be mindful of the POV concerns that others have expressed here too. You may need to overcome those objections before you re-create the category, or else it will most likely be speedily deleted. alanyst 19:32, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- I doubt that very much. There do not appear to be legitmate POV concerns related to this label, only image issues and marketing issues with the Mormon Church being classified as a group who committs massacres, and meat puppet votes from Mormon Church members. Do you deny the Mountain Meadows Event was not a Massacre? I think it clearly was, and it was committed by mormons. Now where is the POV there? Stop trying to blame it on Native Americans. Jeffrey Vernon Merkey 19:44, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Delete. There don't seem to be categories for massacres by Muslims, Jews, Christians, or any other religion that I know of... why have one for Mormons (with only one entry)? *Dan T.* 04:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Delete. This is the kind of category that makes all the good work we do as editors to be viewed as lacking. --Storm Rider 07:45, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Delete. Per nom. If additional articles are created then the category can always be brought back later. MkDoyle 11:54, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Delete. POV pushing at its finest. I don't see a category for "Massacres by Missourians" either...nor should there be one. Bochica 14:22, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Delete as flaming PoV. Else next we'll have "Murders by Congregationalists" Gwen Gale 16:49, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Anime games
- Propose renaming Category:Anime games to Category:Anime and manga games
- Nominator's Rationale: Rename, see below. It covers both already, and it matches the naming convention used by numerous similar categories in the same system. --tjstrf talk 03:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletions. --tjstrf talk 03:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Anime lists
- Propose renaming Category:Anime lists to Category:Anime and manga lists
- Nominator's Rationale: Rename, it covers both anime and manga already and the new name fits the naming convention used by similar categories such as Category:Anime and manga terminology, Category:Anime and manga webcomics, Category:Anime and manga characters, etc. --tjstrf talk 03:16, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletions. --tjstrf talk 03:20, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Haitian Churches
- Propose renaming Category:Haitian Churches to Category:Haitian churches in the United States
- Nominator's Rationale: Rename, I first thought this was meant to be a category for churches in Haiti (in which case of course we should rename to Churches in Haiti but in fact the category was intended for Haitian churches in the US. Now I'll admit I'm not quite what constitutes a Haitian church but clearly the category name is too ambiguous as it is. Pascal.Tesson 02:37, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Delete. There s no sign of a definition of what constitutes a "Haitian church", and the category only contains two churches plus one minister (who should not be in a "church" category). The articles could be interlinked, and if there are more them it would be best to start with a list in an article defining the term "Haitian church". --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:49, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Literature protagonists
- Split: I'd propose split the category into the category Category:Characters in written fiction (under the category Category:Fictional characters by medium) and create the category Category:Protagonists (together with Category:Deuteragonists and Category:Tritagonists under Category:Fictional characters by importance? under Category:Fictional characters) --Brz7 02:03, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Strongly oppose - the "Literature protagonists" category is already under consideration for merger to "characters in written fiction." We have a strong consensus against categorizing fictional characters as "protagonsists," "antagonists," "heroes," "villains" and the like because of the POV issues in making the categorization. Categorizing characters as deuteragonists or tritagonists would not only be confusing for those who have no idea what the terms mean but would be a POV nightmare as editors tried to decide who the second-most or third-most important character in a given work is. Where does such a scheme end? How far down the rungs of "importance" do we go, why choose that point to stop and not another, and how do we decide which characters rank at what level? Otto4711 02:11, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Hi, indeed the character's importance is not always clear; good to read that there's support for the merger to Category:Characters in written fiction --Brz7 10:08, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose. Characters should not be "judged" by us. We've eliminated all use of antagonist, and protagonist and any other -agonist should go too.--Mike Selinker 06:19, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Delete - Classifying characters as "protagonists" or "antagonists" (or similar names) has caused problems in the past, so most such categories have been deleted. Such names suffer from POV problems, which require editors to make subjective judgments about whether characters belong within the categories. Dr. Submillimeter 11:12, 22 May 2007 (UTC)- Speedy close - The original discussion on this category already closed at Misplaced Pages:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_May_15#Category:Literature_protagonists. This second discussion will just confuse people like me. Dr. Submillimeter 14:13, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Comment the CFD for the literature protagonists category has now closed with a result of merge to Category:Characters in written fiction. Otto4711 12:39, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose The already-agreed merger to Category:Characters in written fiction seems like the best solution, per the well-argued objections of Dr S and others to labelling caharcters as "protagonists" etc. These concepts are too vague to make for useful distinctions in categorisation. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:46, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose The proposed reorganization would create maximum hassle and confusion for minimal gain. Alex Middleton 14:31, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:WikiProject Irish Music participants
- Category:WikiProject Irish Music participants (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Merge into Category:WikiProject Irish Music members, duplicate. -- Prove It 01:04, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:WikiProject Religion pages
- Category:WikiProject Religion pages (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Merge into Category:WikiProject Religion articles, as duplicate. -- Prove It 00:41, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Category:Beck: Soundtracks
- Propose renaming Category:Beck: Soundtracks to Category:To be determined by consensus
- Nominator's Rationale: Rename - current name invites ambiguity that the category has something to do with one of the musicians or composers listed at Beck (disambiguation). Since it's both a manga and an anime series I'm not sure what the best rename would be. Otto4711 00:18, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Rename to Category:Beck: Mongolian Chop Squad soundtracks, since that's the title of the anime series. (I'm assuming the manga doesn't actually have a soundtrack.) --tjstrf talk 04:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- Rename As above. I'd also vote to merge into the main article if someone proposes, the 4 articles in this category are quite small. MkDoyle